1 Wednesday, 29 November 2006
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 4.01 p.m.
5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Good afternoon, everybody.
6 When we adjourned the last time, Mr. Milovancevic, you had
7 indicated that you had only just received some bulk of documents from the
8 Prosecution which could possibly be Rule 68 material and you wanted to go
9 through that material to be able to tell us what the Defence's position is
10 on that material. Are you able to give us any answers?
11 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, I can, Your Honour, give
12 you some answers. We looked through the documents. They were rather
13 extensive documents, most of them we had already had in our possession,
14 but it was non-selective material and -- relating to different topics, so
15 we needed quite a lot of time to establish what referred to what. But we
16 have completed our task, and we're not asking for any deadlines or
17 anything like that from the Trial Chamber. Thank you.
18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much. That's very comforting to
19 hear, Mr. Milovancevic.
20 And then let me deal with a few other housekeeping matters that --
21 [Trial Chamber confers]
22 JUDGE NOSWORTHY: Mr. Whiting, I believe you would be the counsel
23 for the OTP dealing with this matter or would it be another counsel?
24 Because there's an issue that I wish to raise with you.
25 MR. WHITING: Yes. No, it's me, Your Honour.
1 JUDGE NOSWORTHY: Mm-hmm. Notwithstanding what learned counsel
2 for the Defence has said, having regard to the position and the provisions
3 of Rule 68(i), why is it that the material itself was being served at the
4 11th hour, after the close, virtually or just at the point of closure of
5 the case, in terms evidence. Could we hear from you?
6 MR. WHITING: Yes, Your Honour. The answer to that is that the
7 Prosecution is constantly reviewing material to look for Rule 68 and it
8 comes up in a variety of ways. We do – we -- when we start the Rule 68
9 process, we do a number of searches called ISU searches --
10 JUDGE NOSWORTHY: ISU meaning?
11 MR. WHITING: I was afraid you would ask that. It's some computer
12 unit -- it's a computer unit that we have that has the ability to search
13 through all of the documents in the OTP collection and print out documents
14 that contain a key word, for example. So it stands for something like --
15 that has to do with that.
16 JUDGE MOLOTO: [Microphone not activated]
17 MR. WHITING: Right. Something like that. And so what we do is
18 we come up with a number of key words, and in this case the Defence was
19 aware what the key words were, the accused's name, of course, but also
20 the names of various witnesses and so forth. The OTP, of course, is
21 constantly receiving new information, new documents, you know, I wouldn't
22 say on a daily basis but virtually on a daily basis. New collections, new
23 documents come in, new things are received. So what we do is we update
24 those searches periodically, and then we conduct reviews of the update searches.
25 What we also -- when we get new witnesses or new information, we do
1 new searches. For example, we did a search on each Defence witness, and
2 we would review the results of those searches, and those searches would be
3 done literally days before the witness testified. The reviews would be
4 done before the witness testified, and then we would conduct those reviews
5 and we would turn over Rule 68 information. So in other words, we --
6 throughout the Defence case, we were constantly reviewing material and
7 turning it over.
8 Now, one thing that obviously happens is that a lot of material is
9 reviewed again and -- the same material is reviewed again and again and
10 again, which is why Mr. Milovancevic was able to say that much of what he
11 had received, he had already received or already was in possession or was
12 already available to him. So that's the answer to your question. And of
13 course the Prosecution's position on this is, had there been any
14 significant material -- and this is, frankly, a process that will
15 continue. Our obligation under Rule 68 continues beyond today, and in the
16 event information is obtained by us or discovered by us or learned by us,
17 that is Rule 68, we will immediately turn it over. And generally our
18 position is that if the Defence wants to make that available to the Trial
19 Chamber, if it is significant, if it could have any effect on the case, we
20 would not oppose that being made available to the Trial Chamber.
21 JUDGE NOSWORTHY: Thank you for that explanation, Mr. Whiting,
22 because the Trial Chamber was excited by two aspects, the issue of the
23 time, having regard to the rule, as well as the volume, which you have put
24 in the context and explained. And we're certainly very grateful for that.
25 Thank you. I don't think Mr. Milovancevic will have wished to have been
2 JUDGE MOLOTO: I do have a question to you, too, Mr. Milovancevic,
3 anyway, notwithstanding my earlier indication to move to the next item.
4 What I did want to find out from you, Mr. Milovancevic, is that whether
5 the Defence is absolutely satisfied that from the material that they
6 received there is nothing they want to turn into evidence by way of
7 exculpatory material at this stage, and specifically from the material
8 that you recently received.
9 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I presented the
10 Defence to hand [as interpreted] at this point in time, with the proviso
11 that I would like the Court to bear in mind the position that the Defence
12 is in as well as the Prosecution, it's always a live process, an ongoing
13 process and it's always a matter of identifying material, finding new
14 material, comparing it with the facts and so on. So if we need anything
15 like that we'll inform the Trial Chamber and tell them why this came
16 about. Now with respect to what the Prosecutor said about disclosure, we
17 are acquainted with that and in connection with Judge Nosworthy's
18 question, comment, I have nothing to add. I don't think I need any
19 comment there.
20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Mr. Milovancevic.
21 The next point the Chamber wanted to deal with relates to a couple
22 of trial -- what do you call them? Housekeeping. Okay. First of all,
23 the question of some maps. During the site visit, the Trial Chamber used
24 11 maps -- this is just by the Trial Chamber. They were not used by the
25 parties -- depicting the locations that were visited. These maps are not
1 marked, with the exception of one which is marked to indicate the
2 locations. The Trial Chamber finds these maps helpful to its
3 understanding of the case and would therefore move to have these admitted
4 into evidence. The usher -- and may I ask her to do so, will provide both
5 parties with copies of these maps and would the parties be so kind to
6 review these maps now and provide the Chamber with their comments in terms
7 of their admission. I don't know whether you have already received them
8 or are they ready to be handed out now? I was ...
9 [Trial Chamber and legal officer confer]
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: My apologies. We don't have them here.
11 Arrangements will be made that they be distributed to the parties, and may
12 the parties just review these. They are the maps of Croatia as we know
13 it, but we found them a little helpful. Okay.
14 That being the case, we will skip that item now and move on to the
15 next one, still under housekeeping. The Trial Chamber is aware of some
16 exhibits which appear to be in duplicate in the e-court. Now, these are
17 exhibits 127 and 220, exhibits 188 and 538, and exhibits 69 and 658. Now,
18 although there are slight differences in the English translation, it does
19 seem as if the B/C/S versions are virtually the same, and the question is:
20 Do we need to have them duplicated in e-court?
21 Mr. Whiting.
22 MR. WHITING: Your Honour, these duplications are probably our
23 fault, and I apologise for that, but as far as resolving this, my instinct
24 would be to just leave things as they are and perhaps put a notation in
25 e-court with respect to each of these exhibits that it is a duplicate of
1 another exhibit and say which exhibit that is. The difficulty with trying
2 at this stage to eliminate one of the duplicates is that, of course, there
3 are references in the record to both of the versions, and it would be --
4 it could start to get complicated and confusing to go and to try and
5 correct the record. So rather than trying to correct the record, I would
6 just suggest putting a notation in e-court about it.
7 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you, Mr. Whiting.
8 Do you have any comments to make on that, Mr. Milovancevic?
9 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour. I share the
10 opinion of my learned friend, Mr. Whiting, since there are very few cases
11 like that, so I don't think that complicates life too much and of course
12 it would save us any possible problems. And I'm saying this at first
13 sight, if I can use that term.
14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Mr. Milovancevic.
15 I would imagine, Mr. Whiting, you give same answer to -- with
16 respect to Exhibit 902, which seems to overlap with the last page of
17 Exhibit 923.
18 MR. WHITING: Yes, that's correct, Your Honour. In that case, I
19 think the -- the Defence put in Exhibit 902 and the Prosecution put in 923
20 with the same witness or maybe the other way around -- no, I think that's
21 actually how it went. And, yes, I would give the same answer.
22 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
23 Then in that event - and I hope this is not asking too much from
24 registry - if there could be that notation made next to those exhibits to
25 make sure that they are duplicates of one another. Okay.
1 From the point of view of the Bench, all other issues that were
2 outstanding were to be dealt with by way of decisions, and to the best of
3 my memory all outstanding decisions have been rendered, unless I am making
4 a mistake somewhere.
5 MR. WHITING: I think that's correct, Your Honour.
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay.
7 In that event, I think that we -- all what needs to be done now is
8 to adjourn the matter, unless anybody else has got anything else to raise.
9 MR. WHITING: Your Honour, I just -- I'm doing this a little bit
10 on the fly, but I -- we just were handed -- handed these maps that
11 Your Honour referred to.
12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Oh.
13 MR. WHITING: And I would like to -- I don't want to make these my
14 complete comments, but I do notice that the first map does have a date on
15 it, it says it's from a road map from 1999. But the -- some of the other
16 maps don't have dates on them in terms of a source, and I'm just -- it may
17 not be relevant, but I'm wondering if that's something that is available
18 or not available. Your Honours -- I'm looking at the second page, the
19 third page, the fourth page, the fifth page, the sixth page. I see these
20 have been prepared by the map unit, and I don't know if they have the date
21 or if I'm missing it here on the sheet, and perhaps --
22 JUDGE MOLOTO: From where I sit, I'm not able to answer your
23 questions. They may or may not have dates; I really do not know. You
24 don't -- I don't think it's something that you need to hurry about.
25 MR. WHITING: Okay.
1 JUDGE MOLOTO: You can take your time to review the maps,
2 Mr. Milovancevic can do the same, and you can decide when we next meet
3 whether you accept them. And if you don't, that won't change much.
4 Am I right to say we are supposed to stand adjourned to the 10th
5 of January?
6 MR. WHITING: I believe that's correct. I don't -- if Your
7 Honours know whether we're sitting in the morning or the afternoon, I
8 don't know.
9 JUDGE MOLOTO: I really wish I knew. I don't know, and I'm not
10 going to be able to help on that in that respect.
11 MR. WHITING: It turns out I have another trial that's opening
12 that day, so I'm hopefully going to be able to coordinate the two.
13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Sure. And if they happen to sit at the same time,
14 I think you just sort of split. Okay.
15 Mr. Milovancevic, do you have anything to raise?
16 MR. MILOVANCEVIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour, nothing.
17 Thank you.
18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
19 And you -- Mr. Martic also has nothing to raise by way of his
20 health and his conditions in the DU? Mr. Martic?
21 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] If it's just that, no, I do not have
22 anything. Thank you.
23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Mr. Martic.
24 Okay. In that event, the court stands adjourned to the 10th of
25 January, 2007. Court adjourned.
1 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 4.20 p.m.,
2 to be reconvened on Wednesday, the 10th day of
3 January, 2007