Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

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 1                          Thursday, 17 March 2005

 2                          [Initial Appearance]

 3                          [The accused entered court]

 4                          --- Upon commencing at 2.32 p.m.

 5            JUDGE AGIUS:  Yes, Madam Registrar, could you call the case,

 6    please.

 7            THE REGISTRAR:  Yes, Your Honour.  Good afternoon, Your Honour.

 8    This is case number IT-04-79-I, the Prosecutor of the Tribunal against

 9    Mico Stanisic.

10            JUDGE AGIUS:  I thank you, Madam Registrar, and good afternoon to

11    you, too.

12            Mr. Stanisic, before I proceed any further, I want to make sure

13    that what I am saying in English and all the rest of the proceedings today

14    are being received by you in a language that you can understand.

15            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes.

16            JUDGE AGIUS:  You may sit down.  Thank you.

17            Could I have appearances for the Prosecution, please.

18            MR. HARMON:  Good afternoon, Your Honour.  My name is Mark Harmon.

19    Appearing with me is Ms. Anna Richterova, and the case manager, Salla

20    Moilanen.

21            JUDGE AGIUS:  I thank you and good afternoon to you and your team.

22            Mr. Stanisic, I am informed that you have expressed your wish to

23    this Tribunal that for the purpose of this Initial Appearance you would

24    like to represent yourself, in other words, that you do not wish to be

25    assisted by counsel today.  Do I have the right -- the correct

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 1    information?

 2            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, you do.

 3            JUDGE AGIUS:  I thank you.  We'll come to the question of counsel

 4    and representation later on.  You may sit down.

 5            Also, before we proceed and go to the substance of this Initial

 6    Appearance, it is my duty could I to bring to your attention,

 7    Mr. Stanisic, the right you have to remain silent.  This right you enjoy

 8    under our Statute but also under our Rules of Evidence and Procedure, and

 9    basically it means that no one can force you to say anything, to answer

10    any questions, and this applies from the beginning of the proceedings

11    until they are over, that is, not only today but later on as we proceed

12    in -- with the pre-trial stage and subsequently with the trial itself.

13            This right to remain silent arises, actually, out of a broader

14    right that you have against self-incrimination, and that right you enjoy

15    throughout the entire proceedings.

16            I will start by giving some details on the indictment that is --

17    exists against you, for your sake, in case you have some -- some

18    information that you haven't got right, but also for the sake of the

19    public.

20            I wish to inform you, Mr. Stanisic, that you are the only accused

21    in the indictment which carries case number IT-04-79-I, and that this

22    indictment was confirmed by my colleague, Judge El Mahdi, on the 25th of

23    February of this year.  Subsequently the indictment was made public

24    following a decision reached by the same Judge, by Judge El Mahdi on the

25    10th of March, 2005.

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 1            I am informed that you, Mr. Stanisic, turned yourself in and

 2    therefore surrendered yourself into the custody of this Tribunal and that

 3    in fact you arrived at the seat of this Tribunal here in The Hague last

 4    week precisely on the 11th of March, 2005.

 5            I will proceed with a summary of the indictment that the

 6    Prosecution has brought against you and which has been confirmed by this

 7    Tribunal.

 8            According to the indictment, as from the 21st of December of 1991,

 9    you were minister without portfolio in the council of ministers which was

10    set up by the Assembly of the Serbian people of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

11    The indictment also alleges that from the 1st of April, 1992, you were the

12    minister of interior of the newly established Serbian Ministry of Internal

13    Affairs, BiH.  In this position, according to the indictment, you were the

14    highest authority in the MUP.  Your official responsibility included

15    public and state security.  According to the Prosecutor, you had overall

16    authority and responsibility for the functioning of the police forces

17    within Republika Srpska and that all commanders of the security services

18    centres were directly subordinated to you.

19            This indictment charges you with criminal responsibility under two

20    categories.  The first one is individual criminal responsibility

21    grounded -- based on Article 7(1) of the Statute.  You are in fact charged

22    in the indictment on the basis of your individual criminal responsibility

23    pursuant to the said Article for alleged crimes which are referred to in

24    Articles 3 and 5 of the Statute of this Tribunal, which according to the

25    Prosecutor you are alleged to have committed, instigated, or in whose

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 1    planning, preparation, and execution you are said to have aided and

 2    abetted.

 3            By using the word "committed" in this indictment, the Prosecutor

 4    is not alleging that you personally committed any of the crimes

 5    charged.  "Committed" in the indictment includes participation in a joint

 6    criminal enterprise.

 7            Coming to the joint criminal enterprise alleged and mentioned in

 8    the indictment, according to the Prosecutor this came into existence no

 9    later than the establishment of the Assembly of the Serbian people in

10    Bosnia and Herzegovina on the 24th of October, 1991, and continued

11    throughout the period of the conflict in BiH until the signing of the

12    Dayton Accords in 1995.  According to the Prosecutor, the objective of the

13    joint criminal enterprise was to permanently remove and ethnically cleanse

14    by force or other illegal means Bosnian Muslims, Bosnian Croats, and other

15    non-Serbs from the territory of the planned Serbian state by the

16    commission of the crimes alleged in the indictment.

17            According to the indictment, you, Mr. Stanisic, are said to have

18    participated in the joint criminal enterprise as a co-perpetrator from no

19    later than April 1, 1992, until at least the 31st of December, 1992, by

20    commanding and directing members and agents of the Serbian Ministry of

21    Internal Affairs in Bosnia and Herzegovina, the MUP, Republika Srpska MUP,

22      who were engaged in implementing the answer engagement of the joint

23    criminal enterprise or who participated in the perpetration of the crimes

24    listed in the indictment.  Also by encouraging and facilitating and thus

25    instigating the commission of crimes against Bosnian Croats, Bosnian

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 1    Muslims, and other non-Serbs by not taking any active steps to

 2    investigate, arrest, and/or punish the perpetrators of such crimes.

 3            The indictment alleges that several persons, individuals,

 4    participated in this joint criminal enterprise, and according to the

 5    indictment, each participant by acts of commission or acts of omission

 6    contributed to achieving the overall objective of the enterprise.  The

 7    indictment alleges that you, Mr. Stanisic, worked in concert with other

 8    members of the joint criminal enterprise amongst whom there were the

 9    following:  Stojan Zupljanin, Radoslav Brdjanin, the late

10    General Momir Talic, Slobodan Dubocanin, also deceased, Simo Drljaca, also

11    deceased, Darko Mrdja, Ljuban Ecim, General Ratko Mladic, Radovan

12    Karadzic, Nikola Koljevic, who is also deceased, Momcilo Krajisnik,

13    Biljana Plavsic, and other members of the Bosnian Serb leadership and of

14    the Serbian Democratic Party, the SDS, at the republic, regional, and

15    municipal levels.

16            The Prosecution also alleges that included in this joint criminal

17    enterprise were also members of the civilian bodies within Bosnia and

18    Herzegovina, including regional and municipal crisis staffs, members of

19    the Yugoslav People's Army, the JNA, the Yugoslav army, the VJ, the army

20    of Republika Srpska, the VRS, the Territorial Defence, the Serbian

21    Ministry of Internal Affairs in Bosnia and Herzegovina, the MUP, the

22    Serbian MUP, and members of Serb and Bosnian Serb paramilitary forces and

23    volunteer units, as well as military and political figures from the

24    Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

25            That's as far as responsibility, individual criminal

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 1    responsibility under 7(1) is concerned.  I'm going into these details

 2    particularly since you decided to represent yourself, because if you had a

 3    lawyer here, it would have been a little bit easier for me.

 4            But as I tried to explain earlier on, you are also charged with

 5    criminal responsibility that we refer to as superior command

 6    responsibility, and this is brought against you in terms of Article 7(3)

 7    of the Statute.  Basically what this means is that in real terms, the

 8    indictment alleges that you, while holding the position of -- a position

 9    of superior authority, you are also individually criminally responsible

10    for the acts or omissions of your subordinates pursuant to Article 7(3) of

11    the Statute.

12            The allegation against you is that your -- in your capacity as

13    minister of the interior, you exercised de jure and de facto command and

14    control over the police forces that participated in the crimes alleged in

15    the indictment.  According to the indictment, you knew or had reason to

16    know that crimes -- that the crimes alleged in the indictment were about

17    to be committed or had been committed by your subordinates and that you

18    failed to take the necessary and reasonable measures to prevent such acts

19    or to punish the perpetrators thereof.

20            According to the indictment, your duty included an obligation to

21    investigate and establish the facts of the crimes that were committed, to

22    put an end to criminal activity, to impose appropriate punitive measures

23    on the perpetrators, and to take the appropriate measures to prevent or

24    deter further criminal acts committed by your subordinates.

25            I will now proceed to give some information as to the underlying

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 1    crimes in this indictment of -- in this indictment, the crimes that are

 2    being charged against you or brought against you.

 3            According to the indictment, between the 1st of April, 1992, and

 4    31st December, 1992, you are said to have committed the following crimes,

 5    and I'm going through them one by one:  The first one is persecution.

 6    Persecution on political, racial, or religious grounds of the Bosnian

 7    Muslim and Bosnian Croat populations in the areas designated as the

 8    Serbian autonomous regions including the municipalities of Prijedor, Kotor

 9    Varos, Sanski Most, Kljuc, Teslic, Donji Vakuf, and Banja Luka in the

10    Autonomous Region of Krajina, and further in the municipalities of Bileca,

11    Bosanski Samac, Brcko, Doboj, Gacko, Ilijas, Pale, Vlasenica, Visegrad,

12    Vogosca and Zvornik.

13            The indictment alleges that Bosnian Serb forces under your command

14    and control committed persecution in the Autonomous Region of Krajina and

15    the other municipalities that I have just mentioned upon or against the

16    Bosnian Muslim and Bosnian Croat population.  According to the

17    Prosecution, this persecution included the killing of Bosnian Muslims and

18    Bosnian Croats during and after attacks on villages and non-Serb areas

19    during deportation and forcible transfer.

20            Second, killings related to detention facilities or committed

21    during transfer to or out of detention facilities that are mentioned in

22    the indictment.

23            Cruel or inhumane treatment during and after attacks on towns and

24    villages and during deportation and forcible transfer including torture,

25    physical and psychological abuse, sexual violence, and forced existence

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 1    under inhumane living conditions.

 2            More:  Cruel or inhumane treatment in detention facilities.  This

 3    inhumane treatment included beatings, torture, physical and psychological

 4    abuse, sexual violence, and humiliation.

 5            (e), unlawful detention in detention facilities.

 6            (f), the establishment and person pet situation of inhumane living

 7    conditions in detention facilities.  These conditions included the failure

 8    to provide adequate accommodation or shelter, food or water, medical care

 9    and hygienic sanitation facilities.

10            (g), forcible transfer and transportation.

11            (h), the appropriation or plunder of property during and after

12    attacks in detention facilities and in the course of deportations or

13    forcible transfers.  The appropriation of property included the practice

14    of forcing Bosnian Muslims and Bosnian Croats to sign documents

15    transferring the title to their real and personal property to Bosnian Serb

16    governmental authorities in order to be able to -- in order to be allowed

17    to leave the Autonomous Region of Krajina and the other municipalities

18    that I mentioned earlier.

19            Under the heading of persecution also the Prosecution alleges that

20    you are criminally responsible for the wanton destruction of Bosnian

21    Muslim and Bosnian Croat villages and areas, including the destruction of

22    religious and cultural buildings and the looting of residential and

23    commercial property.

24            And finally under the heading of persecution, you are charged with

25    the imposition and maintenance of restrictive and discriminatory measures

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 1    including the denial of freedom of movement, the denial of employment

 2    through removal from positions of authority in local government

 3    institutions, the military and the police, and general dismissal from

 4    employment.  Also, the invasion of privacy through arbitrary searches of

 5    houses, the denial of the right to judicial process and the denial of

 6    equal access to public services.

 7            That accounts for the charge and the counts that cover the crime

 8    of persecution.  But you are also charged with the crime of extermination

 9    and murder.  The indictment indeed further alleges that in the same period

10    that I mentioned earlier, you committed the crime of extermination and

11    murder of Bosnian Muslims and Bosnian Croats in the Autonomous Region of

12    Krajina and the other municipalities that I mentioned earlier.  The

13    extermination and murder were effected by killings committed during and

14    after attacks on towns and villages, in detention facilities, and during

15    deportations or forcible transfers.

16            The next crime that you are charged with is one of torture, cruel

17    treatment, and inhumane acts.  The indictment indeed further alleges that

18    in the same time period you committed the crime of inhumane acts inflicted

19    on the non-Serb population in the Autonomous Region of Krajina and the

20    other municipalities that I mentioned earlier.  Bosnian Muslims and

21    Bosnian Croats, according to the Prosecutor, were confined in inhumane

22    conditions and subjected to intentional infliction of severe pain or

23    suffering by beatings, torture, sexual violence, humiliation, harassment,

24    and psychological abuses in camps, police stations, military barracks, and

25    other detention facilities as well as during and after attacks on villages

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 1    and during forcible transfers and deportations.

 2            The last category of crimes that you are charged with can be

 3    described as deportation and other inhumane acts, but to be precise, the

 4    indictment alleges that in the same time period, you committed the crime

 5    of unlawful forcible transfer and deportation of tens of thousands of

 6    Bosnian Muslims and Bosnian Croats from the Autonomous Region of Krajina

 7    and the other municipalities that I mentioned earlier.

 8            In order to achieve this objective, Bosnian Serb forces, including

 9    the police forces of the Serbian Ministry of Internal Affairs in BiH,

10    which was under the effective control -- which was under your effective

11    control or of that of other members of the joint criminal enterprise, you

12    subjugated villages and towns in Bosnia and Herzegovina and participated

13    with members of the SDS, the Serbian Democratic Party, in the disarming of

14    the Bosnian Muslim and Bosnian Croat population.

15            The indictment alleges that the towns and villages, including

16    areas in which the inhabitants complied and offered no resistance, were

17    then attacked.  These attacks were intended to compel the Bosnian Muslim

18    and Bosnian Croat population to flee.  After taking control of the towns

19    and villages, according to the indictment, the Bosnian Serb forces often

20    rounded up the remaining Bosnian Muslim and Bosnian Croat population and

21    forcibly removed them from the area.  On other occasions, the Bosnian Serb

22    forces, in cooperation with the local Bosnian Serb authorities, imposed

23    restrictive and discriminatory measures on the Bosnian Muslim and Bosnian

24    Croat population and engaged in a campaign of terror designed to drive

25    them out of the territory.  The majority of the Bosnian Muslim and Bosnian

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 1    Croat population that remained was eventually deported or forcibly

 2    transferred from their homes.

 3            Now, the President of this Tribunal, on the 11th of March, 2005,

 4    issued an order assigning your case, this case, to Trial Chamber II, of

 5    which I am the President.  Subsequently, on the 14th of March, 2005, I, in

 6    my capacity as Presiding Judge of Trial Chamber II, designated myself as

 7    the Pre-Trial Judge for the purpose -- purposes of today's Initial

 8    Appearance.

 9            I told you in the beginning that although you have chosen to

10    represent yourself today during this Initial Appearance, it is my

11    responsibility as the Pre-Trial Judge doing the Initial Appearance to give

12    you all the information that is necessary to put you in a position where

13    you would know what your rights are when it comes to legal representation.

14    Of course there is no doubt at all, and I want -- wish to confirm this to

15    you, that you have a right to defend yourself.  You have a right to

16    represent yourself today in this Initial Appearance, and you have also got

17    a protected right to defend yourself later on when it comes to the

18    pre-trial stage and also the trial.  But you also have a right to be

19    assisted by a counsel of your own choosing.  However, in this respect, it

20    is my responsibility to make it clear that the right to have -- of accused

21    to have a counsel of his own choosing is not an absolute one, and it is

22    regulated by various directives and orders, also by the Rules of Evidence

23    and Procedure.  The responsibility and discretion belongs to the Registrar

24    of this Tribunal.  Of course the Trial Chamber will intervene if your

25    being interfered with.  As long as the discretion exercised by the

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 1    Registrar is reasonably exercised, the Trial Chamber will not intervene.

 2            The Statute as well as the Rules also provide for legal aid should

 3    you qualify to it.  In other words, within the general umbrella of your

 4    having a right to be assisted by counsel of your own choosing, if you

 5    satisfy the conditions that are laid down by the various instruments of --

 6    and Rules of this Tribunal, then in terms of Rule 45(A), you have a right

 7    to ask to be assigned counsel.  That counsel will be assigned in

 8    accordance with the procedure established in an ad hoc directive.

 9            I do not intend to say much more on this.  I think from what I can

10    see, you are understanding me perfectly well.  If you have any questions

11    in this regard, please stand up and speak now.  My suggestion to you is

12    that you immediately, now that you are here in The Hague, take this matter

13    up with the representatives of the Registrar so that you know what your

14    position is.

15            I now come to the next stage, and I am tasked by the Rules of this

16    Tribunal to establish that indeed you are the Mr. Stanisic that was

17    indicted by this Tribunal.  In due course, then, I will come to the most

18    important part of today's Initial Appearance, but for the time being could

19    you please stand up.  For the time being, I'm going to ask you a few

20    questions.

21            Could you please give me your full name for the record.

22            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Mico Stanisic.

23            JUDGE AGIUS:  I'm going to ask you a question.  If you prefer not

24    to answer it, you have every right not to answer it.  Do you have any

25    nicknames?  Are you known by any nicknames?

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 1            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I have no nickname, nor have I ever

 2    had one.

 3            JUDGE AGIUS:  Thank you.  What is your date of birth?  When were

 4    you born?

 5            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] The 30th of June, 1954.

 6            JUDGE AGIUS:  Thank you.  And where were you born, your place of

 7    birth?

 8            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Ponor, Pale municipality.

 9            JUDGE AGIUS:  And what is your present nationality?

10            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I have the citizenship of Serbia.

11            JUDGE AGIUS:  Yes.  And now I'm going to ask you for your last

12    address, but I don't think this is of any interest to the public, so we'll

13    go into private session for a while.

14                          [Private session]

 15  (redacted)

 16  (redacted)

 17  (redacted)

 18  (redacted)

 19  (redacted)

 20  (redacted)

 21  (redacted)

 22  (redacted)

 23  (redacted)

 24  (redacted)

 25  (redacted)

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 1                          [Open session]

 2            THE REGISTRAR:  We're in open, Your Honour.

 3            JUDGE AGIUS:  I thank you, Madam Registrar.

 4            Are your -- are the members of your family, all the members of

 5    your family aware that you are presently here in The Hague?

 6            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Everyone knows.

 7            JUDGE AGIUS:  And the -- would you like me to inform anyone

 8    amongst your relatives about your presence here in The Hague and your

 9    state of detention here in The Hague?

10            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] There's no need.

11            JUDGE AGIUS:  Do I also take it that your embassy, the embassy of

12    Serbia here in The Hague is aware of your transfer and presence -- state

13    of detention here in The Hague?

14            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes.

15            JUDGE AGIUS:  In other words, you don't need me to contact the

16    embassy of Serbia and inform them of anything?

17            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] No.

18            JUDGE AGIUS:  I thank you.  You may sit down.

19            Mr. Stanisic, I'm sure you are aware of this, but our Statute on

20    our Rules ensure that the -- every accused here enjoys a certain number of

21    rights.  These rights are essentially enshrined in Articles 20 and 21 of

22    our Statute.  You also have a reflection of them in the Rules of Procedure

23    and Evidence, and these are internationally recognised rights.

24            So as to make sure you are aware of these rights, I'm going to ask

25    now Madam Registrar to read out loud Articles 20 and 21 of our Statute,

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 1    and then I will ask you some questions.

 2            THE REGISTRAR:  Article 20:  "Commencement of trial proceedings.

 3    The Trial Chamber should ensure that a trial is fair and expeditious and

 4    that proceedings are conducted in accordance with the Rules of Procedure

 5    and Evidence with full respect for the rights of the accused and due

 6    regard for the protection of victims and witnesses.  A person against whom

 7    an indictment has been confirmed shall, pursuant to an order or an arrest

 8    warrant of the International Tribunal, be taken into custody immediately

 9    informed of the charges against him and transferred to the International

10    Tribunal.  The Trial Chamber shall read the indictment, satisfy itself

11    that the rights of the accused are respected, confirm that the accused

12    understands the indictment and instruct the accused to enter a plea.  The

13    Trial Chamber should then set a date for trial.  The hearings should be

14    public unless the Trial Chamber decides to close the proceedings in

15    accordance with its Rules of Procedure and Evidence."

16            Article 21:  "Rights of the accused.

17            "All persons shall be equal between the International Tribunal.

18            "In the determination of charges against him, the accused shall be

19    entitled to a fair and public hearing subject to Article 22 of the

20    Statute.

21            "The accused should be presumed innocent until proved guilty

22    according to the provisions of the present Statute.

23            "In the determination of any charge against the accused pursuant

24    to the present Statute, the accused shall be entitled to the follow

25    minimum guarantees in full equality.

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 1            "(a).  To be informed promptly and in detail in a language which

 2    he understands of the nature and cause of the charge against him.

 3            "(b) to have adequate time and facilities for the preparation of

 4    his defence and to communicate with counsel of his own choosing.

 5            "(c) to be tried without undue delay.

 6            "(d) to be tried in his presence and defend himself in person or

 7    threw legal assistance of his own choosing.  To be informed if he does not

 8    have legal assistance of this right and to have legal assistance assigned

 9    to him in any case where the interests of justice so require and without

10    payment by him in any such case if he does not have sufficient means to

11    pay for it.

12            "(e) to examine or have examined the witnesses against him and

13    to obtain the attendance and examination of witnesses on his behalf under

14    the same conditions as witnesses against him.

15            "(f) to have the free assistant of an interpreter if he cannot

16    understand or speak the language used in the International Tribunal.

17            "(g) not to compel to testify against himself or to confess

18    guilt."

19            Thank you, Your Honour.

20            JUDGE AGIUS:  I thank you, Madam Registrar.

21            Mr. Stanisic, do you understand the importance of these rights

22    contained in these two articles that Madam Registrar has just read?

23            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I do indeed.

24            JUDGE AGIUS:  Have you been served with a -- with a copy of the

25    indictment in your own language?

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 1            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes.

 2            JUDGE AGIUS:  Have you read it?

 3            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I have.

 4            JUDGE AGIUS:  Have you understood it?

 5            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes.

 6            JUDGE AGIUS:  So you have understood exactly what you are being

 7    charged with.

 8            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes.

 9            JUDGE AGIUS:  Do you want me to read out the indictment in full?

10    According to the Rules I'm supposed now to proceed with the reading of the

11    indictment in full.  But you also have a right to waive that, in which we

12    will proceed with the next stage of the Initial Appearance.  My question

13    to you is:  Do you wish to have the indictment against you read out in

14    full, or do you waive that right?

15            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] There's no need.

16            JUDGE AGIUS:  I thank you.  Now, while you're still standing up,

17    I'll explain to you what the next stage is.  The next stage is I'm now

18    going to proceed with asking you whether you wish to enter a plea to the

19    various counts contained in the indictment today, or whether, in case you

20    wish to enter a plea today, whether you will be pleading guilty or not

21    guilty to any or all of the counts that are brought against you.  That's

22    the procedure basically that we will be following.

23            However, I need to explain to you that our Rules do not require

24    you necessarily to enter a plea today.  You may choose not to enter a plea

25    today, but then you have 30 days within which you can enter a plea, and

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 1    our Rules also provide that if within those 30 days you do not enter a

 2    plea, then I will enter a plea on your of what and that will be a plea of

 3    not guilty.  So that's the position.

 4            Mr. Stanisic, are you ready and willing to enter a plea to the

 5    charges that are brought against you, to the counts that are brought

 6    against you in this indictment today, or do you wish to delay your

 7    entering of the plea?

 8            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I am ready to enter a plea today.

 9            JUDGE AGIUS:  I thank you.  So the way I will go about it is as

10    follows:  I will tell you under which count what you are being charged

11    with, the information I gave already in the explanatory part.  And then at

12    the end I will explain how you wish to plead to those counts one by one.

13    Did you understand me?

14            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I understand.

15            JUDGE AGIUS:  Let's start with the first count, Mr. Stanisic.  The

16    first count contained in the indictment is one of persecutions on

17    political, racial, and religious grounds, this being a crime against

18    humanity, punishable under Articles 5(h) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

19            How do you wish to plead to this first count, guilty or not

20    guilty?  Incidentally, you are being charged both under Article 7(1) and

21    Article 7(3), that is, individual criminal responsibility and superior

22    command possibility.  How do you wish to plead to this first count, guilty

23    or not guilty.

24            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.

25            JUDGE AGIUS:  I come to the second count which is brought against

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 1    you, and this is a charge of extermination, being a crime against

 2    humanity, punishable under Article 5(b) of this Statute and once more you

 3    are being charged both under Article 7(1) and under Article 7(3) of the

 4    Statute of this Tribunal.  How do you wish to plead to this second --

 5    second count which is one of extermination?

 6            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.

 7            JUDGE AGIUS:  The third count against you is one of murder, a

 8    crime against humanity, punishable under Article 5(a) of the Statute of

 9    this Tribunal, and once more you are being charged both under 7(1) and

10    under 7(3) of the Statute of this Tribunal.  How do you wish to plead to

11    this third count, guilty or not guilty?

12            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.

13            JUDGE AGIUS:  And the fourth count is one of murder, this time

14    being a violation of the laws or customs of war as recognised by Common

15    Article 3, 1 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 punishable under Article 3

16    of the Statute of this Tribunal.  Once more, you're being charged both

17    under 7(1) and under 7(3) of the Statute of this Tribunal.  How do you

18    wish to plead to this fourth count, guilty or not guilty?

19            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.

20            JUDGE AGIUS:  And the fifth count is one of torture, a crime

21    against humanity, punishable under Article 5(f) of the Statute of this

22    Tribunal, and once more, the Prosecution -- the indictment alleges that

23    you are responsible both under 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of this

24    Tribunal.  How do you wish to plead to this fifth count, guilty or not

25    guilty?

Page 20

 1            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.

 2            JUDGE AGIUS:  And the sixth count against you is one of torture.

 3    This time it is alleged as a violation of the laws or customs of war as

 4    recognised by Common Article 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949,

 5    and which is punishable under Article 3 of the Statute of this Tribunal.

 6    Again, 7 -- Articles 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute are being invoked

 7    against you.  How do you wish to plead to this sixth count of torture,

 8    guilty or not guilty?

 9            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.

10            JUDGE AGIUS:  And the seventh count you are being charged with,

11    cruel treatment, it being a violation of the laws or customs of war, as

12    recognised by Common Article 3, 1 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and

13    which is punishable under Article 3 of the Statute of the Tribunal.  Once

14    more, Articles 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute are being invoked against you.

15    How do you wish to plead to this seventh count of cruel treatment, guilty

16    or not guilty.

17            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.

18            JUDGE AGIUS:  And the eighth count against you, Mr. Stanisic, is a

19    charge of inhumane acts, a crime against humanity, punishable under

20    Article 5(i) of the Statute of this Tribunal, and again Articles 7(1) and

21    7(3) are being -- of the Statute are being invoked against you.  How do

22    you wish to plead to this eighth count, that is one of a charge of

23    inhumane acts, guilty or not guilty?

24            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.

25            JUDGE AGIUS:  And the ninth count the Prosecution alleges against

Page 21

 1    you -- brings against you, a charge of deportation, it being a crime

 2    against humanity, punishable under Article 5(d) of the Statute of this

 3    Tribunal.  Again, Articles 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute are invoked

 4    against you.  How do you wish to plead to this ninth count, guilty or not

 5    guilty?

 6            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.

 7            JUDGE AGIUS:  And in the tenth count, you are being charged with

 8    inhumane acts, namely forcible transfer, which is a crime against

 9    humanity, punishable under Article 5(i) of the Statute of this Tribunal,

10    which Articles 7(1) and 7(3) being invoked also here.  How do you wish to

11    plead to this tenth count which is brought -- that is brought against you?

12            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty.

13            JUDGE AGIUS:  All right.  Please take a seat, Mr. Stanisic.

14            Madam Registrar, I would like to record that the accused entered a

15    plea of not guilty to each of the ten counts brought against him in the

16    indictment.

17            THE REGISTRAR:  Yes, Your Honour.

18            JUDGE AGIUS:  Okay.  Now, Mr. Stanisic, I need to also inform you

19    that in case you change your mind in due course, that you can always

20    change your plea, and you can change your plea with regard to the entire

21    indictment, and you can change your plea with regard to one or more of the

22    counts that I referred to and which are brought -- which are brought

23    against you in the indictment.

24            There is an important matter that I need to make myself clear

25    about, because this is of great interest to you as a new detainee here in

Page 22

 1    Scheveningen.  You are now under the custody of the Tribunal.  The Initial

 2    Appearance has taken place, and Rule 63 of our Rules of Evidence and

 3    Procedure provides that questioning by the Prosecutor of an accused,

 4    including after the Initial Appearance, shall not proceed without the

 5    presence of counsel unless the accused has voluntarily and expressly

 6    agreed to proceed without counsel present.  If the accused subsequently

 7    expresses a desire to have counsel, questioning shall thereupon cease,

 8    stop, and shall only resume when the accused's counsel is present.  The

 9    questioning, including any waiver of the right to counsel shall be audio

10    recorded or video recorded in accordance with the procedure provided for

11    in Rule 43, which I don't need to read out to you, "and the Prosecutor

12    shall at the beginning of the questioning caution the accused in

13    accordance with Rule 42(A)(iii)."  Basically the Prosecutor would need to

14    caution you that you have the right to remain silent and anything that you

15    might say would be -- could or would be used in testimony against you.  Or

16    could be used in testimony.

17            So I have read out Rule 63 to you, even though for the time being

18    you've told me that you don't wish not to be represented by the counsel,

19    but these are your rights, and I want to make sure that you are made aware

20    of them.

21            In the next couple of days, I will proceed with appointing a

22    Pre-Trial Judge.  This Judge will look after the pre-trial stage on behalf

23    of the Trial Chamber, and he will have the task of summoning periodically

24    a so-called Status Conference.  According to our Rules, a Status

25    Conference has to be held, convened, within 120 days -- the first one

Page 23

 1    within 120 days as from today.  The subsequent ones within 120 days each

 2    from the previous Status Conference.

 3            The purpose of a Status Conference is twofold.  First, it allows

 4    for the parties and the Trial Chamber to organise exchanges between the

 5    parties so to ensure -- so as to ensure the expeditious -- an expeditious

 6    preparation for trial, also to ensure that all the disclosure obligations,

 7    particularly on the Prosecution, are being observed.

 8            Secondly, the Pre-Trial Judge will also and in addition have the

 9    opportunity of seeing you in person and ensure that -- first, that you are

10    being treated well, listen to any remarks or complaints or questions that

11    you might have, and take all the necessary action that might become

12    necessary, if at all.

13            Later on, you, or if you will have counsel later on, your counsel,

14    will be informed of the date of the first of these Status Conferences, and

15    of course later on you will be informed as we go along.

16            In the meantime, I have signed an order, which I am sure you are

17    aware of, keeping you in custody here in Scheveningen.  But it is also my

18    duty to inform you that pursuant to Rule 65 of our Rules of Evidence and

19    Procedure, you have a right to file an application for provisional

20    release.  The fact that you are not represented by counsel is of no

21    impediment, no obstacle.  You can find it -- file it yourself or it can be

22    filed later on by your counsel, if you have one, and it will be -- it will

23    be given all due attention by the Trial Chamber collectively and not by

24    the Pre-Trial Judge.

25            I'm mentioning this also because should you decide to apply for

Page 24

 1    counsel, for legal assistance, and should this take more time than you

 2    expect and in the meantime you would like to file an application for

 3    provisional release, you have every right to file it.  It doesn't mean to

 4    say that you will get provisional release, but you have every right to

 5    file it.

 6            So the only other thing, I tell you about is that if you have

 7    difficulties, I'm sure that you can ask for assistance -- the Detention

 8    Unit.  And any such application that you may wish to file will be filed in

 9    your name.

10            I turn over to you, Mr. Harmon.  I think -- I barely need to

11    remind you of your responsibilities and obligations under Rule 66(A)(i).

12    Would I like to remind you that pursuant to this sub-rule, within 30 days

13    of today's Initial Appearance you need to make available to the accused,

14    if he continues to represent himself, or to his counsel if he has one, in

15    a language in which the accused understands all the supporting material

16    which accompanied the indictment when confirmation was sought.  I am

17    pretty sure that you are aware of this right -- of this obligation.

18            MR. HARMON:  Yes.  Your Honour may be absolutely confident that we

19    will comply with that Rule.

20            JUDGE AGIUS:  I thank you.

21            And now I turn on again to you, Mr. Stanisic.  We have also Rule

22    72, and in particular I'm referring you to paragraph (A) of Rule 72,

23    pursuant to which you will have a 30-day period for filing any preliminary

24    motions once you have received the supporting material in your own

25    language that is due to you under Rule 66 that I mentioned a couple of

Page 25

 1    seconds ago.  By "preliminary motions," I mean the motions that are listed

 2    in Rule 72, and which include also motions challenging the jurisdiction of

 3    the Tribunal or alleging defects in the form of the indictment.

 4            Incidentally, I might as well ask you whether you have already

 5    available a copy of the Rules of Evidence and Procedure in your own

 6    language.

 7            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I have.

 8            JUDGE AGIUS:  I thank you.  So you can refer to Rule 72.

 9            We are almost finished.

10            Mr. Harmon, is there any matter that the Prosecution wishes to

11    raise at this stage?

12            MR. HARMON:  There is none, Your Honour.  Thank you.

13            JUDGE AGIUS:  I thank you, Mr. Harmon.

14            Mr. Stanisic, is there any matter that you would -- that you wish

15    to raise at this stage?

16            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Nothing.  But, Your Honour, all I

17    would like to say is that I came here voluntarily in order to establish

18    the truth before this Honourable Chamber, and that is all.

19            JUDGE AGIUS:  I thank you.  I want to make sure also that since

20    your decision to surrender to this Tribunal voluntarily that you have been

21    treated well.  Have you been treated well?

22            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I have.

23            JUDGE AGIUS:  All right.  And you have no special concerns as

24    relates to your state of detention or your health that you would like to

25    make me aware of?  If necessary, we go into private session.

Page 26

 1            THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] No, I have nothing to complain

 2    about.  All I want to do is to establish the truth.

 3            JUDGE AGIUS:  All right.  I thank you.

 4            Last thing before we rise is I will also instruct the Registrar to

 5    start the ball rolling with a view to also fixing a date for the -- for

 6    this trial.  I think it's almost superfluous on my part to explain that

 7    that is not going to happen overnight.  It will take it's time, but I will

 8    be giving instructions to the Registrar not to sleep on this matter but to

 9    give it the utmost attention, Mr. Stanisic.

10            I thank you.  You may sit down.

11            We stand adjourned.

12                          --- Whereupon the Initial Appearance adjourned at

13                          3.33 p.m.