Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

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 1                           Thursday, 11 November 2010

 2                           [Status Conference]

 3                           [Open session]

 4                           [The appellants entered court]

 5                           --- Upon commencing at 3.00 p.m.

 6             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Good afternoon to everyone.  We are

 7     now in session.

 8             Mr. Registrar, could you kindly call the case of the current

 9     hearing.

10             THE REGISTRAR:  Good afternoon, Your Honour.  Good afternoon,

11     everybody in and around the courtroom.

12             This is case number IT-98-32/1-A, the Prosecutor versus

13     Milan Lukic and Sredoje Lukic.

14             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you.

15             Mr. Milan Lukic, can you hear and follow the proceedings in a

16     language that you understand?

17             THE APPELLANT M. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes.

18             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you.

19             Mr. Sredoje Lukic, can you understand the proceedings in a

20     language that you understand?

21             THE APPELLANT S. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes.

22             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you.

23             I would now like to turn to the parties and ask them to introduce

24     themselves.  And I would like to start with the Office of the Prosecutor,

25     please.

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 1             MR. WOOD:  Good afternoon, Your Honour.

 2             Kyle Wood and Virginie Monchy for the Prosecution, along with our

 3     case manager, Colin Nawrot.

 4             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.

 5             I would now like to turn to the Defence counsels for

 6     Mr. Milan Lukic.

 7             MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours.

 8             I am Tomislav Visnjic, with Mr. Dragan Ivetic, and together with

 9     Vladimir Bozovic, our legal consultant, and Dalida Chrysostomidou.  We

10     are representing Mr. Lukic.

11             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.

12             I would now like to turn to the Defence counsel of

13     Mr. Sredoje Lukic, and I would like them to introduce themselves.

14             MR. CEPIC:  Good afternoon, Your Honour.  I'm Djuro Cepic,

15     Defence counsel for Mr. Sredoje Lukic.  Today, appearing with me on my

16     left-hand side, my learned friend Mr. Jens Dieckmann as co-counsel, on my

17     right-hand side, Ms. Sabine Schulz, our legal assistant.

18             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.

19             The Status Conference was convened pursuant to Rule 65 bis (B)

20     and (C) of the Rules of Procedure and Evidence of the Tribunal, which

21     requires that a Status Conference shall be convened within 120 days

22     following the filing of the notice of appeal, and thereafter within

23     120 days after the last Status Conference.

24             The main purpose of a Status Conference is to give any person in

25     custody pending appeal to raise issues -- the possibility to raise issues

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 1     in relation thereto, including the physical and mental condition of that

 2     person.

 3             The first Status Conference hearing was held on the

 4     13th of November, 2009.  We then met for a second Status Conference on

 5     the 16th of March, 2010, and for a third time on the 14th of July, 2010.

 6     We are, therefore, meeting today for the fourth Status Conference as part

 7     of the appeals procedure in the present case.

 8             I would like to recall the parties that the Appeals Chamber is

 9     still seized of three confidential motions written by the Defence of

10     Mr. Milan Lukic.  They are dated, respectively, 8th of February, 2010,

11     10th of February, 2010, and 22nd of February, 2010, in which it is

12     considered to grant Milan Lukic the possibility to introduce additional

13     evidence in appeal.

14             I would also like to inform the parties, as I did during our last

15     meeting, that the Appeals Chamber will issue a single decision on all

16     three motions before the appeals hearing.

17             Lastly, the date set for the appeals hearing, which was supposed

18     to be on the 21st of September, 2010, had to be postponed.  It is

19     difficult at the moment to set a specific date for that hearing, but I do

20     think that this hearing should not be convened before the month of

21     February 2011.  The Appeals Chamber will officially set the appeals

22     hearing date in due time, and will determine the time granted to each

23     party in order for them to make their submissions.

24             I would now like to turn to Mr. Milan Lukic and to

25     Mr. Sredoje Lukic to ask them to inform me about their detention

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 1     conditions and state of health.

 2             I would now first like to turn to Mr. Milan Lukic.  Mr. Lukic, do

 3     you wish to inform me about any particular concern with regard to your

 4     detention or with regard to your health?

 5             THE APPELLANT M. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, please

 6     allow me to thank you, first of all, for giving me the opportunity to

 7     point to some of the most recent developments which are making my life,

 8     which is already difficult, even harder in the Detention Unit.

 9             Before I tell you what the problem is, I would like to inform you

10     that I'm going to do everything to stay dignified and proud until the

11     end, because that is something that my stainless reputation and peaceful

12     conscience allows me to do.  I'm no killer.  I'm given particular

13     strength by the faith that the Appeals Chamber, respecting the rules of

14     the profession and law, will be able to lift all the injustices that I

15     have been subjected to by the Trial Chamber.  You are my only hope and my

16     last chance in my attempt to have the truth established on the basis of

17     facts and to satisfy justice, justice primarily towards those who were

18     subjected to misfortunes in the past wars and justice in relation to me,

19     who found himself without willing in the whirlwind of war.

20             Those who contributed the most to charges against me, I hope,

21     will be found out in order to protect themselves in relation to all of

22     their crimes.  I am primarily thinking of Brane Savic and Risto Perisic,

23     officials who are still pursuing their charges against me.  Any time when

24     there are any particular chances of some criminal proceedings being

25     charged -- being issued against them, this happens.

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 1             Over the past few weeks, the discovery of bodily remains in the

 2     Perucac Lake has been topical over the last few days.  Nothing is known

 3     about these remains, their origin, how they managed to get there, but the

 4     media, directed by Savovic and Perisic, immediately began to harangue, at

 5     my expense and regarding my involvement, even though some officials from

 6     Bosnia-Herzegovina had said that some of the bodily remains that were

 7     found originate from the First and the Second World War.

 8             This media campaign relentlessly keeps naming me as the commander

 9     of the paramilitary formation such as white Eagles and so on, even though

10     in this trial it has been proved that my role came down to the duties of

11     the plainest reserve policeman who was mobilised as part of his

12     compulsory war assignment, which applied to all conscripts, including

13     myself.  Even the Trial Chamber, on the weight of the evidence, had to

14     conclude in the judgement that I was no commander, no leader of any

15     paramilitary formations.

16             Your Honour, in view of the need for me to be as rational as

17     possible in my time allotment, I just mentioned a few things on this

18     occasion.  Having this in mind, I most kindly ask you to grant me and to

19     make it possible for me, through the media, to address the public of

20     Montenegro, Serbia, and Bosnia and Herzegovina, and the whole

21     international community, about facts, about many questions, and, in

22     particular, questions on which I had never been able to express my

23     position.  I'm disturbed by the fact that certain events from that time,

24     of which I was acquitted at domestic courts of any responsibility, still

25     the media in Bosnia-Herzegovina, in Montenegro, continually ascribe these

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 1     acts to me.  Those media have placed themselves above the Court, above

 2     the law.  Simply, this would be the only way for the other side to be

 3     heard in this case, to have my arguments stated publicly.  I feel that

 4     this is my duty towards those victims and their families, who were

 5     casualties of the war, as well as a duty towards those people who know

 6     the truth but still are not allowed to talk.

 7             Giving me a chance to speak with journalists from Montenegro,

 8     Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, you would, in the best way, contribute to

 9     justice and the truth and would give me a little more strength to fight

10     to continue to prove my innocence before this --

11             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Mr. Lukic --

12             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone, please.

13             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Mr. Milan Lukic, would you be kind

14     enough to talk about your detention conditions or your physical and

15     mental state of health.

16             UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:  There's no translation.

17             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Can you hear me now?  No.

18                           [Appeals Chamber and Registrar confer]

19             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Can Mr. Sredoje Lukic hear me?

20             THE APPELLANT S. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

21             Everything is fine.  I don't know whether you can hear me,

22     whether the interpretation is on.

23             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Maybe you could use the microphone.

24             Can you hear me now?  Fine.

25             THE APPELLANT M. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes, yes.

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 1             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] I shall repeat what I've already

 2     stated.

 3             Mr. Milan Lukic -- Mr. Milan Lukic, would you be kind enough to

 4     talk to us about your detention conditions and your physical and mental

 5     state of health, and could you please try to be as brief as possible.

 6     Thank you.

 7             THE APPELLANT M. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, the media

 8     is lynching me, so I can't feel well in the Detention Unit.  They keep

 9     circulating lies about me in the media.  Therefore, I do not feel well,

10     and I wanted to point this out to you, asking you to allow me to defend

11     myself.  Otherwise, what else could I do?

12             Your Honour, as you could see, my request is modest and minor,

13     and I hope you will have the understanding for this request.  Thank you,

14     once again, for allowing me to address you and for having the patience to

15     listen out to me.

16             Once we have the appeals hearing, I will have a lot to say

17     publicly.

18             Thank you.

19             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] I thank you, and I take note of

20     your concerns.  I take note of the concerns you've just informed us

21     about, and I would like to thank you for your co-operation.

22             Mr. Sredoje Lukic, would you like to raise any issue about the

23     detention conditions or your state of health?

24             THE APPELLANT S. LUKIC: [Interpretation] As I have just said to

25     you, Your Honour, I would like to thank you.

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 1             Everything is fine.  There are no problems whatsoever.

 2             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you.

 3             And, lastly, I would like to ask the parties if they have, at

 4     this juncture, any issues which they would like to raise as we sit in

 5     this Status Conference.  I would like first to turn towards the Office of

 6     the Prosecutor.

 7             MR. WOOD:  The Prosecution has nothing at this time, Your Honour.

 8             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.

 9             I now turn to the Defence counsel of Mr. Milan Lukic.  Would you

10     like to raise a particular issue?

11             MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] No new issues, Your Honours.

12             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.

13             And I would like now to turn to the representative of the

14     Defence -- the counsel of Defence of Mr. Sredoje Lukic.  Would you like

15     to raise any issue at this juncture?

16             MR. CEPIC:  Thank you, Your Honour, for this opportunity.  No new

17     issues will be raised from our side.

18             Just for the record, if you leave me -- we received translation

19     in B/C/S, in our language, and I have to say we are aware that the

20     authoritative version is in English, but the version in B/C/S has got

21     translation problems regarding to the main issues for my client.  Of

22     course, we solved that issue, but, as I said, just to put it in the

23     record of the Status Conference.

24             And also just to add that we join to the proposal of Prosecutor

25     which the Prosecutor raised on the Status Conference during the

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 1     March 2010 with request for the information of oral hearing, six weeks

 2     prior to commencement of oral hearing.

 3             Thank you very much, Your Honour.

 4             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.

 5             Of course, what you've just stated will be part of the record.

 6     Thank you.

 7             I have no other questions to raise, and I believe that we can

 8     adjourn for today.

 9             I would like to thank the parties for their participation, and I

10     would also like to thank the staff of the Tribunal for helping us in

11     organising this Status Conference.

12             The hearing is adjourned.

13                           --- Whereupon the Status Conference adjourned

14                           at 3.21 p.m.