1 Thursday, 10 March 2011
2 [Open session]
3 [Status Conference]
4 [The appellants entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 2.57 p.m.
6 JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Good afternoon to everyone. We are
7 now in session.
8 Madam Registrar, could you kindly call the case of the current
10 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honour. Good afternoon to
11 everyone in and around the courtroom.
12 This is case number IT-98-32/1-A, The Prosecutor versus
13 Milan Lukic and Sredoje Lukic.
14 JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you.
15 Mr. Milan Lukic, can you hear and follow the proceedings in a
16 language that you understand?
17 THE APPELLANT MILAN LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes.
18 JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you.
19 Mr. Sredoje Lukic, can you understand the proceedings in a
20 language that you understand?
21 THE APPELLANT SREDOJE LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes.
22 JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you.
23 May I have may have the appearances, please, starting with the
24 OTP. Please.
25 MS. MONCHY: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honour.
1 Virginie Monchy and Matthew Cross for the OTP, with Mrs. Lourdes Galicia,
2 our case manager.
3 JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you.
4 I now turn to the Defence counsel for Mr. Milan Lukic.
5 MR. IVETIC: Good afternoon, Your Honour. Dragan Ivetic,
6 appearing on behalf of the Defence of Mr. Milan Lukic. Thank you.
7 JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you.
8 Thank you. And I now turn to the Defence counsel of
9 Mr. Sredoje Lukic.
10 MR. CEPIC: Good afternoon Your Honour. On behalf of the
11 Sredoje Lukic Defence team, myself, Djuro Cepic as Defence counsel. On
12 my left-hand side is my learned friend Mr. Jens Dieckmann, as co-counsel,
13 and behind me is our assistant, Jacob Nuebel.
14 JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you.
15 This Status Conference was convened pursuant to Rule 65 bis (B)
16 and (C) of the Rules of Procedure and Evidence of the Tribunal which
17 requires that a Status Conference be convened within 120 days following
18 the filing of the notice of appeal and, thereafter, within 120 days after
19 the last Status Conference.
20 The main purpose of a Status Conference is to give any person in
21 custody pending appeal the possibility to raise issues in relation
22 thereto, including the physical and mental condition of that person.
23 This is our fifth Status Conference, as part of the appeals procedure, in
24 the -- in the present case. The last Status Conference took place on the
25 11th of November, 2010.
1 I would like to recall the parties that the Appeals Chamber is
2 still seized of four confidential motions submitted by Mr. Milan Lukic,
3 in which he requests to be granted a possibility to introduce additional
4 evidence in appeal. I would also like to inform the parties that the
5 Appeals Chamber will issue its decision on these motions before the
6 appeals hearing.
7 And, lastly, I am currently unable to give the parties a specific
8 date for the appeals hearing. Nevertheless, my aim is to be able to set
9 a hearing date towards the end of the month of May 2011, whilst taking
10 into account the workload of the Appeals Chamber which has to manage ICTY
11 and ICTR cases. I noted that the parties would like to be informed of
12 the date of the hearing date and of the questions put forward by the
13 Appeals Chamber at least six weeks in advance. However, I note that the
14 hearing date has been somewhat postponed, which, in my view, gives extra
15 preparation time to the parties. The Appeals Chamber will set officially
16 the hearing date in due time and will determine the time granted to each
17 party to present the submissions.
18 I would like to turn to Mr. Milan Lukic now, as well as to
19 Mr. Sredoje Lukic. I would like to ask them to inform me about their
20 detention conditions and state of health.
21 First of all, I would turn to Mr. Milan Lukic.
22 Mr. Milan Lukic, do you wish to inform me about any particular
23 detention -- any particular concerns with regard to your detention or
24 state of health?
25 Mr. Milan Lukic.
1 THE APPELLANT MILAN LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you,
2 Your Honour.
3 As I don't know if I will be alive by the time I'm due to appear
4 in the courtroom next time, I need to say a couple of really important
5 things, by your leave.
6 As for the personnel at the detention unit, everybody is acting
7 properly. There are two professionals. I have not had a single problem
8 in the last six years, and they have not had a single problem with me
9 either. However, I have received confirmed information that fascists
10 Branimir Savovic and Risto Perisic are preparing to get rid of me while
11 in detention unit. They were the masters of life and death in Visegrad
12 during the war. I appealed to this Court asking that they be arrested
13 since they are criminals without precedent in Bosnia-Herzegovina.
14 Savovic and Perisic acquired huge wealth by way of looting during the
15 war. They have on their payroll service personnel, security personnel of
16 Bosnia and Herzegovina and Republika Srpska.
17 JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Could you please slow down because
18 we cannot really follow you.
19 THE APPELLANT MILAN LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.
20 I received information that my life is in danger from the
21 detainees who know personally Savovic and Perisic. They used to know
22 them during the war as well. During the war, Savovic and Perisic used to
23 work for security services and they continued to do that to this day.
24 The security services have them under their protection. They are
25 currently residing in Serbia, in the town of Cacak.
1 To tell you straight away, I'm not afraid of dying. I could have
2 been killed during the war thousands of times. I am a fighter. I always
3 fought for justice and truth. The only battle I have before me now is to
4 uncover the truth about the crimes committed in Visegrad against the
5 innocent Muslim people. There were various kidnappings in Severin.
6 Lists were drawn of innocent persons, Muslims who need to be arrested or
7 killed --
8 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please, Your Honour.
9 JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Mr. Milan Lukic, I'm sorry to
10 interrupt you, but you do know that this is a Status Conference which has
11 been convened in order for you to tell us about your detention conditions
12 or your state of health. What you have just told us is not relevant for
13 this Status Conference, but could you please conclude without too much
15 THE APPELLANT MILAN LUKIC: [Interpretation] I will continue so
16 that everybody can conclude what this is about.
17 There is evidence showing that the monsters Savovic and Perisic
18 organised the kidnapping of Muslims in Strpci and Severin. There is
19 evidence showing that Muslims who had fled Visegrad during the war were
20 arrested on the beaches of Montenegro and sent back to the police station
21 in Visegrad. There is evidence showing that criminal Savovic and Perisic
22 drew lists of Muslims who need be to arrested and killed so that they
23 could benefit themselves from it. However, those same criminals
24 overnight turned coats and they became humanists accusing others of their
25 crimes so that innocent people, insignificant people are rotting away in
1 jails in Sarajevo and in The Hague while they, the actual criminals, are
2 at liberty.
3 I request that you order the Prosecution to ensure that these
4 criminals stand trial, that they are arrested for the sake of the
5 families of the victims. We ask that subpoenas be issued --
6 JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] [Previous translation
7 continues] ... would you please conclude now.
8 THE APPELLANT MILAN LUKIC: [Interpretation] Very well.
9 I request -- I am telling you that my life is in danger. I
10 request that they be arrested. They are paying people for the killings.
11 They are paying people to keep silent about their names. That is the
12 main thing. My life is in danger. They committed a lot of crimes in
13 Visegrad during the war, and they now live in Serbia. They were masters
14 of life and death and they remain so now. So the main message is that
15 the people who paid for murders to be committed be arrested.
16 I have received reliable information, while in detention, that
17 they are openly offering money for people to be killed. Their goal --
18 and to poison me. These are monsters. I urge you to take all measures
19 to stop them from doing that. You need to do that only until we learn
20 the truth. Once we learn the truth, they can be left to do what they
22 There is nothing else I need to tell you.
23 JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Milan Lukic.
24 Of course, we all wish for you to be alive at the next
25 Status Conference and at the Status Conference afterwards. Having said
1 that, I take note of the -- of your concerns, but I would like to remind
2 to you, that pursuant to Articles 81, 80 and 81 of the rules of
3 detention, you can always put forward a request or a grievance to the
4 commander of the detention unit or to the Registrar.
5 Having said this, the Appeals Chamber has been seized of
6 a motion -- or, rather, of four motions. A decision about these four
7 motions will be delivered just before the appeals hearing.
8 I now turn to Mr. Sredoje Lukic. Do you wish to inform me about
9 any particular concerns with regard to your detention or your state of
11 THE APPELLANT SREDOJE LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you for
12 allowing me to speak, Your Honours. Everything is fine. It has been so
13 far. I have nothing new to report.
14 JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.
15 And, lastly, I would like to ask the parties if they have at this
16 juncture any issues which they would like to raise as we sit in this
17 Status Conference. Starting with the Office of the Prosecutor.
18 MS. MONCHY: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
19 Very briefly, I would like to tell you that the OTP would like to
20 talk about the disclosing of any element or any point regarding
21 Article 98 bis [as interpreted]. I would like to say that we have
22 recently discovered new details about the death of four [as interpreted]
23 victims. This information have been disclosed to us according to Article
24 70 of the Rules of Procedure, and, therefore, we cannot communicate this
25 to the Defence counsel before asking permission to the body who -- that
1 give us -- that has given us this information. We have requested this to
2 this body, and we have asked them to deal with this matter as a very
3 urgent matter. Obviously, we will keep the Defence informed as soon as
4 we get an answer from them.
5 In any case, the OTP is confident that the disclosure procedure of
6 potential exculpatory material will be completed before the appeals hearing.
7 JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you. I take note of the
8 information that you have just given us and I take note of the fact that
9 you have -- you will give us information about this communication before
10 the appeals hearing.
11 Having said that, I would like to know if the Defence counsel of
12 Mr. Milan Lukic wish to tell us anything.
13 MR. IVETIC: Your Honour, at this time, we have nothing further
14 to raise before the Pre-Appeals Chamber. Thank you.
15 JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.
16 As far as I'm concerned, I have no other questions to raise.
17 [Trial Chamber and Legal Officer confer]
18 JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I now
19 turn to Mr. Sredoje Lukic, or, rather to the Defence counsel for
20 Mr. Sredoje Lukic.
21 Do you wish to inform us of anything? Do you have any question
22 to raise at this juncture?
23 MR. CEPIC: [Microphone not activated] ... for this opportunity.
24 Just for the record that we stay on our position for the oral
25 presentation by Professor Knoops [phoen] which is authorised by
1 Scheduling Order from 21st of July, 2010. Thank you very much.
2 JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you.
3 As far as I'm concerned, I have no other questions to raise.
4 MS. MONCHY: [Interpretation] Your Honour, just a slight
5 correction to the English transcript, if I might, we're just looking for
6 the specific line. It was said that it was about the death of four
7 victims, but I said that we had new information about the death of six
9 JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you, Ms. Monchy. We took
10 note of your correction and the transcript will be duly corrected.
11 As I was saying, I have no other questions to raise, and I
12 believe that we can now adjourn for today. I would like to thank the
13 parties for their participation --
14 [Trial Chamber and Legal Officer confer]
15 JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] You have the floor.
16 MR. CEPIC: Thank you very much, Your Honour.
17 Problem is another mistake in transcript, page 7, line 19. My
18 learned friend from OTP mentioned the Rule 98 bis regarding to those
19 victims, so probably I'm not quite confident that it has to be in
20 accordance with the truth.
21 Thank you.
22 MS. MONCHY: Well, I don't know which line you refer to, but that
23 should have been Rule 68. Yes. Thank you.
24 JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] I have no other questions to raise,
25 so I believe that we can now adjourn for today.
1 I would like to thank the parties for their participation, and I
2 would also like to thank the staff of the Tribunal for helping us in
3 organising this Status Conference.
4 The hearing is adjourned.
5 --- Whereupon the Status Conference adjourned
6 at 3.20 p.m.