1 Friday, 21 June 2002
2 [Status conference]
3 [Open session]
4 [The accused entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 3.04 p.m.
6 JUDGE KWON: Yes, Madam Registrar, will you please call the case?
7 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honour, case number
8 IT-99-37-PT, the Prosecutor versus Nikola Sainovic and Dragoljub Ojdanic.
9 JUDGE KWON: Yes. Appearances, please.
10 MR. SHIN: Your Honour for the Prosecution, it's the Prosecutor
11 Madam Carla Del Ponte, my learned colleague, Julia Baly and myself
12 Milbert Shin.
13 JUDGE KWON: Thank you for the Defence?
14 MR. FILA: [Interpretation] Your Honour, Toma Fila and Zoran
15 Jovanovic for the accused Sainovic, thank you.
16 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour Tomislav Visnjic and
17 Vojislav Selezan, council for General Ojdanic.
18 JUDGE KWON: Thank you. Well, this is the first Status Conference
19 in this case, the purpose of which is to ensure the expeditious
20 preparation of the case for trial and to review the status of the case and
21 to allow the Defence the opportunity to raise any issues relating to the
22 case. As Judge May is the -- the Pre-Trial Judge in this case, is away
23 now, I'm presiding over this Status Conference in my capacity as a member
24 of Trial Chamber III. I think there are several matters to consider
25 during this conference, which include the issue of the indictment,
1 disclosure, and other pending motions. However, the -- as the parties may
2 have been already informed, the hearing on the provisional release for
3 both of the accused has been set to take place on Monday, quarter past
4 2, so that matter will be heard at that time. So let me start with the
5 issue of the indictment.
6 The accused are charged on the same indictment, that Mr. Milosevic
7 is currently being tried upon, and the Prosecution is -- has passed the
8 halfway and almost reaching the final stage of presenting its case in the
9 Kosovo aspect of that trial. So how does the Prosecution propose to deal
10 with the trial of these accused? So does the indictment have to be
11 separated? Could you comment on that?
12 MR. SHIN: Your Honour, the position of the Prosecutor, the
13 Prosecution is that we will most likely not be seeking joinder of these
14 accused with the accused Milosevic. Rather, these accused will be tried
15 separately. The Prosecution will review the position and if appropriate
16 make the relevant filings.
17 JUDGE KWON: Yes. If the Prosecution could file the submission in
18 writing within some -- a week from now.
19 MR. SHIN: Certainly, Your Honour.
20 JUDGE KWON: Yes. Another matter regarding the indictment is
21 concerned with another co-accused, Mr. Stojiljkovic, who I understand has
22 died some time in April and I wonder if the Prosecution will file a
23 submission regarding that matter, too.
24 MR. SHIN: Yes, Your Honour it's the understanding of the
25 Prosecution as well that Mr. Stojiljkovic has passed away. The
1 Prosecution will seek to obtain a death certificate and will make the
2 appropriate filings thereafter.
3 JUDGE KWON: Yes. We will wait for that. Then the next matter
4 will be about the disclosure. This Chamber has now issued some decisions
5 granting protective measures in respect of witnesses whose statements are
6 required to be disclosed by the Prosecution under Rule 66(A)(i) and
7 ordering the Defence not to disclose to the public supporting materials,
8 the identities of the witnesses, and any evidence disclosed to the accused
9 under Rule 66(A)(i). I'd like to ask the Prosecution whether the material
10 supporting the indictment, and confirmation that it has been disclosed to the
11 Defence pursuant to the Rule 66(A)(i).
12 MR. SHIN: Yes, Your Honour, the disclosure of materials pursuant
13 to Rule 66(A)(i) is now complete and has been complete as of the 19th of
14 June, 2002. If I could just briefly summarise the history of that, the
15 66(A)(i) disclosure began on May 6 for the accused Sainovic and on May 2nd
16 for the accused Ojdanic. Thereafter, as the Prosecutor had indicated
17 during the initial appearances, the Prosecution had filed these motions
18 seeking an order of non-disclosure to the public of supporting materials
19 and also an order seeking the extension of the protective measures that
20 were granted in the Milosevic case. After receiving an order -- decision
21 from the Trial Chamber on those motions on the 7th of June, Prosecution
22 then continued to disclose pursuant to Rule 66(A)(i) and completed, as I
23 indicated on the 19th of June. The total binders are, I believe, 12
24 binders. The Prosecutor may have indicated there were approximately 14
25 binders in the -- during the initial appearances but this is essentially
1 the same material with the sake of convenience collated the materials in
2 more than one binder on two occasions.
3 JUDGE KWON: Thank you. My understanding is that talks about
4 the -- regarding the Rule 86 disclosures going on. So is there anything to
5 raise regarding that matter?
6 MR. SHIN: Yes, Your Honour. The Prosecution met with Defence
7 counsel yesterday to discuss, among other things, the Rule 68 disclosure
8 as well as some issues relating to translation and particularly with the
9 case, the accused Ojdanic, the Rule 66(B) disclosure, the reciprocal
10 disclosure the corresponding part of which is Rule 67(C), at the meeting
11 yesterday and I believe the -- Your Honour may have received a copy draft
12 copy of the minutes, the counsel for the accused who have an opportunity
13 to file something indicate being their comments, whether they agree with
14 that draft or not in due course. Among the topics discussed were, as I
15 said, the Rule 68 obligations and the reciprocal disclosure. If I could
16 just summarise what, in brief, the areas that were covered, the
17 Prosecution, in short, explained the process by which Rule 68 disclosure
18 has been taking place in the Milosevic case. We understand of course that
19 there are obvious differences between the Milosevic case and the case
20 against these two accused, but we thought that that may be useful guide.
21 We explained basically the process and the process in short is this: That
22 we, the Prosecution, have identified certain searches that need to be
23 made, first of all, and secondly we've gone to a sift of the document that
24 is have been produced as a result of the searches through the holdings of
25 the Prosecution. And thirdly we have reviewed those materials for the
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
1 applicability of Rule 68. We have made available to Defence counsel
2 examples of the searches that we've made. We have provided them a
3 list of the major collections within the holdings of the Prosecution. And
4 by that I mean major collections of documents, and we've also provided
5 them with two versions of the accused Ojdanic's letter of April, I believe
6 April 26, seeking discovery of various materials. These two charts
7 recast -- excuse me, I've been indicated to slow down and I will do so.
8 These two charts, basically take the letter of General Ojdanic and
9 break it down into separate categories within which we will endeavour to
10 fulfil our discovery obligations. Basically, the Prosecution explained
11 that as with the Milosevic case, this type of search is potentially
12 inefficient and time consuming process, and therefore, as with the
13 Milosevic case, the Prosecution has invited the Defence counsel to provide
14 any input or any suggestions they would have as to the means by way we are
15 going about this, including suggestions on search parameters or any other
16 methods by which we could make this process more efficient for all parties
18 I think that may be all I had to say about that.
19 JUDGE KWON: Thank you. Well, the next matter will be some
20 pending motions, but apart from the motion for provisional release, I
21 noticed that there were two motions from Ojdanic's counsel regarding the
22 access to the documents of Court and regarding the ex parte filings from
23 the Prosecution but the Court decisions have already been made. So are
24 there any matters which you would like to raise at this moment?
25 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour, we have satisfied
1 with the decision and in view of the fact that this is a parallel process
2 which will take place between the OTP and the registry, we shall wait for
3 the results. After that, we will retain the right, as mentioned in the
4 decision, to apply to the Chamber should we have any further issues to
6 JUDGE KWON: Thank you. Whether there are some -- any matters
7 which the Prosecution wish to raise at this moment?
8 MR. SHIN: No, Your Honour. Perhaps with the exception that in
9 connection with reciprocal disclosure, for the accused Mr. Ojdanic, the
10 Prosecution should be in a position in late July or early August to begin
11 that disclosure, in particular in reference to Mr. Ojdanic's letter of
12 April 26th, again I believe that's the correct date, we should be in a
13 position to begin disclosure on paragraphs 3 (B), (F) and (G). Thank you.
14 JUDGE KWON: Do you have anything to say?
15 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, only with respect to
16 the evidence disclosed so far. For the record, the Defence of General
17 Ojdanic received the materials on the 2nd of May, and on the 13th, 18th
18 and 19th of June. We wish to confirm what the Prosecution has said, that
19 the material has been disclosed in its entirety. In relation to Rule 68,
20 it is our understanding that it is the duty of the Prosecutor, which is
21 equally important, that is, it is just as important for the Prosecution to
22 look for exculpatory material as for incriminating material. We shall of
23 course try to assist and facilitate this process, but we expect the full
24 cooperation of the Prosecution, because it is up to them, in fact, to do
1 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
2 MR. SHIN: Just two points on that, Your Honour. As my learned
3 counsel has correctly pointed out, it is ultimately with regards to Rule
4 68 the obligation, of course, that the Prosecution to make that
5 disclosure. And we would appreciates the assistance of Defence counsel in
6 that regard. With regard briefly on the Rule 66(A)(1) disclosure just to
7 reiterate that the Prosecution had at one point suspended disclosure under
8 that rule while it had awaited the rulings of the Trial Chamber on the two
9 motions that we had filed, of which I had spoken previously. Thank you.
10 JUDGE KWON: That includes the corrigendum regarding K20.
11 MR. SHIN: Yes, Your Honour.
12 JUDGE KWON: The final matter I'd like to raise -- yes, Mr. Fila?
13 MR. FILA: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I have a different view of
14 the way Rule 68 should be applied and I believe that this is a little
15 premature. On the 19th, we received two plus ten binders. I would first
16 have to study the incriminating material in order to see what kind of
17 material we should look for under Rule 68. Therefore I reserve the right
18 after I have studied the material, if I am permitted to say something
19 about this issue at some future Status Conference, to do so, because at
20 present there is nothing I can do but agree with my colleagues. Thank
22 JUDGE KWON: The Trial Chamber will bear that in mind. Yes, Mr. Shin?
23 MR. SHIN: Sorry, Your Honour, just one additional note I've been
24 informed by my colleague, Ms. Graham, that there may have been some
25 confusion in our disclosure of Rule 66(A)(1) material. There may be one
1 additional document it that we have not disclosed but I'll look into it
2 and take care of the matter accordingly.
3 JUDGE KWON: Yes. Thank you Mr. Shin. The final matter is the
4 so-called Rule 65 ter conference. It is the practice of this Trial Chamber
5 that regular Pre-Trial Conferences are held with the Senior Legal Officer
6 of the Chamber to expedite the preparation of the case for trial. So I
7 understand that the parties will be contacted in order to make
8 arrangements to meet with Mrs. Featherstone, the senior legal officer to
9 this Trial Chamber III, at a Rule 65 ter conference in the near future.
10 If there is nothing more to raise at this moment, -- Mr. Sainovic and
11 Mr. Ojdanic, are there anything to raise for yourself at this moment?
12 THE ACCUSED SAINOVIC: [Interpretation] No.
13 THE ACCUSED OJDANIC: [Interpretation] No.
14 JUDGE KWON: Then this conference is adjourned.
15 --- Whereupon the Status Conference
16 adjourned at 3.22 p.m.