Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 23669

1 Wednesday, 5 March 2008

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 [The Accused Milutinovic not present]

5 --- Upon commencing at 8.59 a.m.

6 JUDGE BONOMY: Good morning, everyone. Mr. Zecevic, I note that

7 Mr. Milutinovic is not with us. I take it we can continue in his

8 absence.

9 MR. ZECEVIC: Yes, Your Honour, he waived his presence for today.

10 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.

11 Mr. Lukic, your next witness?

12 MR. LUKIC: Good morning, Your Honours. Our next witness is

13 Mr. Sladjan Pantic.

14 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.

15 [The witness entered court]

16 JUDGE BONOMY: Good morning, Mr. Pantic.

17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.

18 JUDGE BONOMY: Would you please make the solemn declaration to

19 speak the truth by reading aloud the document the usher will show to you

20 now.

21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

22 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

23 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you. Please be seated.

24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

25 JUDGE BONOMY: You will now be examined by Mr. Lukic.

Page 23670

1 Mr. Lukic.

2 MR. LUKIC: Thank you, Your Honours.


4 [Witness answered through interpreter]

5 Examination by Mr. Lukic:

6 Q. [Interpretation] Good morning, Mr. Pantic.

7 A. Good morning.

8 Q. Would you kindly introduce yourself for the record.

9 A. My name is Sladjan Pantic, father's name Dragoljub, born 24 March

10 1969, in Pec.

11 Q. Thank you. Would you tell us briefly about your work history,

12 employment history.

13 A. My employment history began on the 19th of November, 1990, when I

14 started a course of training to become a policeman, upon which

15 completion -- upon the completion of which I was assigned to work in the

16 department for internal affairs of Srbica as policeman in the police

17 section of Srbica.

18 Q. Mr. Pantic, look at me, not the screen. The people from the

19 Victims and Witnesses Section only confuse you by instructing you to

20 watch the screen and then you stop talking normally. It's better to keep

21 eye contact.

22 Where were you employed after May 1992?

23 A. After May 1992, or more precisely, in July I was transferred to

24 the police section of Rudnik, which came under the jurisdiction of the

25 department of internal affairs of Srbica.

Page 23671

1 Q. What did the police section of Rudnik cover?

2 A. The Rudnik police section covered 18 villages, and our job was to

3 maintain public order, enforce the law, and do the other things normally

4 done by a police station.

5 Q. Name some of the villages.

6 A. Let's begin with Rudnik itself, Kostolac, Kladernica, Leocina

7 Turicevac, Brocna, Vocnjak, Radisevo, do I need to name them all?

8 Q. That will do. Can you till us what was the ethnic composition of

9 your police section?

10 A. We were around 20, three among us were Muslims, Bahrudin Bandic,

11 Ramiz Adrovic, and Ruzdija Milatovic, and there was another colleague

12 working with us of Roma ethnicity, Ismet Kukac.

13 Q. Did you personally have a good relationship with the local

14 Albanians?

15 A. I was on good and even friendly terms with the entire population,

16 including the ethnic Albanian community.

17 Q. Did Albanians move out of Rudnik in 1998?

18 A. Yes.

19 MR. LUKIC: [Previous translation continues] ... go into the

20 private session for a very short period of time. We should be mentioning

21 some names, and for their protection.

22 JUDGE BONOMY: Ms. Gopalan, do you have anything to say on that?

23 Thank you.

24 Very well, we shall go into private session for that reason.

25 [Private session]

Page 23672

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21 [Open session]

22 THE REGISTRAR: We are in open session, Your Honours.

23 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

24 Q. Mr. Pantic, did Albanians freely come to the police section of

25 Rudnik?

Page 23673

1 A. No, they did not come freely because they were afraid of each

2 other. If they were on good terms with the police, they would be

3 boycotted by their own compatriots, and sometimes not only boycotted,

4 sometimes there were worse consequences.

5 Q. Then how did you get reports that a crime was committed, for

6 instance?

7 A. In informal discussions. In the street, in tearooms, in informal

8 conversations when talking to Albanians, that's how we got our

9 information.

10 Q. Do you remember any drastic examples, that somebody was hurt or

11 came to harm because they socialised with Serbs?

12 A. Yes, I remember that in Vitak village a man was killed by the

13 name of Muhamet, his nickname was Barber. He owned a tavern, and he was

14 killed on his door-step. We learned about it a few days later when his

15 wife and son came to that tavern and Rudnik to collect the property from

16 the tavern, to collect the effects. And when we asked, Where is the

17 barber? They said he was killed outside his own house by people wearing

18 KLA uniforms.

19 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Pantic, what was the ethnic composition in

20 1998 of Rudnik?

21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In 1998 and before, Rudnik was a

22 village with mixed population. There were some Serbs, some Albanians,

23 and a very small number, perhaps two or three houses, of Romas.

24 JUDGE BONOMY: So the picture we should have is of the Albanians

25 moving out and the Serbs and Roma alone occupying the village?

Page 23674

1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, that's correct, except that in

2 one part of Rudnik itself there was a family by the name of Jovanovic.

3 There were two or three houses there on the edge of the village, and

4 those Serbs also moved out at the same time as Albanians because they

5 were afraid to remain there alone.

6 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic.

7 MR. LUKIC: Thank you, Your Honour.

8 Q. [Interpretation] In 1998 were there any terrorist attacks in your

9 area?

10 A. Yes, in 1998 too there were some, and the main road Pec-Kosovska

11 Mitrovica was under blockade.

12 Q. In 1998 in which villages were there Serbs in your area out of

13 the 18 villages?

14 A. Banje, Suvo Grlo, Rudnik village, Radisevo village, Kostrc, and

15 Leocina.

16 Q. When did Serbs move out, out of some of these villages on the

17 territory of your police section?

18 A. In 1998 Serbs from Radisevo, Kostrc, and Leocina left their

19 homes, and there were no more Serbs there left after some KLA terrorist

20 attacks.

21 Q. You mentioned a road that was blocked. What was the category

22 given to that road?

23 A. It was a thoroughfare, a main road, from Pec to Kosovska

24 Mitrovica, a continuation of the so-called Ibar motorway that continued

25 towards Pec. And on that road -- let me say first that in some -- in

Page 23675

1 Rudnik itself there was some trees that they felled to make them fall on

2 the road and block it completely.

3 Q. Were there any attacks on civilians and the police?

4 A. Yes, there were attacks. On the local road from Radisevo towards

5 Rudnik a Serbian family by the name of Deverdzic was attacked. A brother

6 and sister were wounded in the attack. Also in Kostrc, Blagaj Jovanovic

7 was killed outside his house. And on the road towards Leocina at the

8 entry point to Leocina a woman named Dostana Smigic was kidnapped.

9 Q. Were the police ever attacked?

10 A. The police were constantly attacked.

11 Q. Did you stop sending patrols to a certain locality at a certain

12 time; and if so, which locality?

13 A. I remember --

14 Q. Give us the time, please.

15 A. I remember because it remained etched in my memory, on the 15th

16 of August, 1997, during a regular patrol mission on the ground, we

17 reached Vocnjak village, the hamlet of Ozren, where an Albanian I knew, a

18 friend of mine, asked me, Why did you come here? And I explained why.

19 He told me, Don't come here, take another path, KLA members are waiting

20 for you and from this day on you will be attacked every day whenever you

21 get out into the field. And from that moment on we did not go into the

22 field in that area of about ten villages.

23 Q. Just give us briefly the names of some of those villages where

24 you no longer went, beginning with the 15th of August, 1997.

25 A. Kostrc, Kladernica, Turicevac, Brocna, Vocnjak, Izbica, Leocina,

Page 23676

1 Donje Obilic.

2 Q. Thank you. Was anyone else attacked after that day in an attempt

3 to reach these villages, a state official perhaps?

4 A. Yes, in the autumn of 1997 two tax men were in Vocnjak village

5 where they were attacked by the KLA. Only they know how they managed to

6 get out of there alive.

7 Q. Was there an attempt to perform an on-site investigation after

8 that incident and what happened?

9 A. Yes, an on-site investigation team went out of OUP Srbica, but

10 they were attacked from all sides and they were unable to do the on-site

11 investigation. Ljubisa Ilic, scenes of crime officer in OUP Srbica, was

12 injured on that occasion.

13 Q. Very well then. Let us focus now on end March 1999. Do you

14 remember the assignment you received at that time. What was that

15 assignment? Who gave it to you? Describe it.

16 A. I remember that assignment, it was passed on to me by the section

17 commander based on the orders of Branko Jaradic, chief of the OUP, and

18 that was to participate in an action to crush the terrorists, to rout the

19 terrorists. They said I would be seconded to a unit from Belgrade that

20 also included the army.

21 Q. Describe, where did you set out from, how, and what a did you

22 encounter on that first day, what was that day?

23 A. To the best of my recollection, it was the 25th. We gathered

24 outside the station. The starting point was some 50 metres away from the

25 station where the road starts towards Kostrc and on to Turicevac, and

Page 23677

1 when I arrived that Belgrade unit was already there, and there was a

2 tank. We set out towards Kostrc village, we entered it, and 7 or 800

3 metres on, we came across trenches and communicating trenches and then we

4 were attacked by the KLA.

5 Q. So less than a kilometre away --

6 JUDGE CHOWHAN: [Previous translation continues] ...

7 communicating trench.

8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Communicating trenches -- well,

9 they're like trenches, canals, some 30 to 40 metres in length. They're

10 used for defence purposes, that's the term we use. Maybe there is

11 another one in existence.

12 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

13 Q. Certain clarifications are required on occasion because of

14 everything that is being interpreted. It wasn't your fault. You said

15 that -- the 25th of and you meant the 25th of March, 1999?

16 A. Yes, as far as I can recall.

17 Q. Less than a kilometre away from your starting point you were

18 attacked, is that correct, some 7 or 800 metres? I'm just checking that

19 piece of information.

20 A. Yes, that is correct.

21 Q. What followed after you were attacked on the 25th?

22 A. We were attacked and we responded, the fighting went on for about

23 one, two, or three hours, then it stopped and we continued, although we

24 were sniped at. We entered Kostrc village, we came to Dervisa Mahala and

25 that's where we bivouacked the first night.

Page 23678

1 Q. Were you join anyone else along that route that day or was it the

2 next day?

3 A. Not on the first day but on the second day.

4 Q. After the first day where did you go and who joined you?

5 A. We went towards Kladernica village on the second day. We reached

6 the outskirts of the village and turned to the right towards Leocina. On

7 that path up the hill we were joined by another squad of the Army of

8 Yugoslavia.

9 Q. Tell us what kind of uniform was worn by the people of your

10 group.

11 A. The unit I was seconded to, the police unit, wore green

12 camouflage uniforms with visible signs on their backs saying "police."

13 Members of the army wore green camouflage uniforms. I was the only one

14 to wear the standard-issue blue camouflage uniform.

15 Q. What happened on the 26th of March, 1999, that is the next day?

16 A. As I said, we turned to the right, we reached the plateau between

17 Kladernica and Leocina villages. We entered the hamlet of Arije, and we

18 spent the night in the first house we came across.

19 Q. Was there any fighting that day, on the 26th?

20 A. That day the unit I was with saw very little action, but to the

21 left and to the right you could hear a lot of shooting.

22 Q. On the 27th what happened?

23 A. In the morning on the 27th, we got up and we were getting ready

24 to go. At that point we were attacked from the village of Izbica. We

25 responded and turned to the left, returning to a hill nearby so as to

Page 23679

1 improve our position in relation to the KLA. After that attack, we

2 pressed ahead towards Vocnjak village. So we used the higher ground to

3 reach Vocnjak itself.

4 Q. The make-up of that group, did it change as opposed to the 26th?

5 A. It remained the same until we reached Vocnjak itself. Just prior

6 to entering it, the military squad and the tank turned back and we

7 pressed further towards Vocnjak.

8 Q. Did you see anyone on your route to Vocnjak?

9 A. On our path to Vocnjak at the first elevation we came across we

10 saw a column of civilians on the road moving towards the south. They

11 were using the road and we followed them up to the outskirts of Brocna

12 [Realtime transcript read in error "Brocna"] village. We moved along

13 slowly, and as of the point when we entered Vocnjak village there were no

14 attacks anymore. I don't know whether that was because of the civilians

15 that were on the road or not, but in any case we reached Brocna village

16 and we spent the night in Mahala Salja.

17 Q. In the morning of the 28th, what happened and what followed that

18 day?

19 A. In the morning of the 28th we got up, to put it that way, since

20 we were always ready to move. We waited for further orders, and during

21 the morning - I can't recall exactly when - buses arrived, and we were

22 taken to Metrohijska Klina. I was dropped off there and my role as a

23 guide for those units was completed at that point.

24 Q. You and the group you moved with, did you have any contact with

25 any civilians prior to the civilians you met on the road to Vocnjak?

Page 23680

1 A. No, there was no contact with any civilians before that.

2 Q. Do you know what PJP unit was with you?

3 A. I was with the unit that I have been told came from Belgrade. I

4 don't know what unit it was specifically. I only know they were from

5 Belgrade.

6 Q. Thank you, Mr. Pantic. I have no further questions for you.

7 JUDGE BONOMY: You'll now be examined by the Prosecutor, who in

8 this instance --

9 MR. CEPIC: Excuse me, Your Honour.

10 JUDGE BONOMY: Sorry, Mr. Cepic.

11 MR. CEPIC: I have some questions, with your leave.

12 JUDGE BONOMY: Very well.

13 Mr. Cepic has some questions for you first of all.

14 Mr. Cepic.

15 MR. CEPIC: Thank you.

16 Cross-examination by Mr. Cepic:

17 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Pantic, good morning. My name is

18 Djuro Cepic. I appear on behalf of General Lazarevic.

19 A. Good morning.

20 Q. To go back to end March, you said that you were with the PJP unit

21 and that they came from the -- from Belgrade. It was a squad. On the

22 27th when you were moving towards Vocnjak and along the entire route, did

23 you and the Army of Yugoslavia squad you moved with entered the village

24 of Izbica?

25 A. No, we did not enter Izbica village. We used a higher ground

Page 23681

1 between Kladernica and Izbica.

2 Q. What was the distance you covered starting from the village of

3 Izbica?

4 A. Well, the route we were following is some 800 metres away from

5 Izbica itself. It's a forested hilly terrain. You cannot see much in

6 front of you or on the side.

7 Q. Could you see Izbica from the forest?

8 A. No.

9 Q. This military squad and the tank, they were moving behind you,

10 they were following you?

11 A. From time to time, the tank would have to choose its path, and

12 the squad itself was sometimes closer to us, sometimes further away, but

13 we all moved along together. I would say they spent most of their time

14 following us, yes.

15 Q. Thank you. You said that on the 27th of March there was an

16 attack from several directions on the members of the unit you were with.

17 Would you agree with me that those attacks were directed at the police

18 unit and that the unit merely responded to the attacks?

19 A. There was an attack, we responded, we responded. The tank was

20 not engaged. There was shooting, and I didn't see where the people were

21 exactly. I don't know whether the military infantry squad was firing

22 back; however, I know that the tank did not fire that day.

23 Q. Mr. Pantic, thank you.

24 A. You're welcome.

25 JUDGE BONOMY: One point of clarification, Mr. Pantic. You said

Page 23682

1 that you -- when you encountered civilians they were using the road and

2 you followed them up to the outskirts of Brocna village and then you are

3 recorded as saying: "... and as of the point when we entered Vocnjak

4 village there were no attacks anymore."

5 Is that an accurate record of what you said?

6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] When we arrived there, we saw them

7 on the road. We weren't following them per se. We saw them moving along

8 that road, and that was the axis of our movement. We slowed down,

9 waiting for them to pull out. During that period we were not being

10 attacked.

11 JUDGE BONOMY: Were you at Vocnjak before you got to Brocna?

12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes. We went through Vocnjak and

13 reached Brocna village.

14 JUDGE BONOMY: And at what point was it that the attacks on you

15 stopped?

16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't remember exactly. As far

17 as I recall at the point of entry to Vocnjak, that's where the attacks

18 ceased.

19 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.

20 You'll now be cross-examined by the Prosecutor, Ms. Gopalan.

21 Ms. Gopalan.

22 Cross-examination by Ms. Gopalan:

23 Q. Good morning, Mr. Pantic.

24 A. Good morning.

25 Q. I'd like to begin by asking you a few questions about the police

Page 23683

1 station you worked at in Rudnik. You mentioned that there were 20 other

2 policemen who you worked with in the station. Could you tell us why you

3 were chosen to act as a guide for the VJ and MUP operations in late

4 March?

5 A. I was chosen because I was the head of a sector, of the security

6 sector, and I knew the terrain since I worked in that position for over

7 five years. In Rudnik I worked as of June 1990 -- excuse me, July 1992

8 until the 19th of June, 1999.

9 Q. Were you the only guide for these VJ and MUP units in late March

10 1999 during the operation, or were there other guides?

11 A. As far as I know, it was only me.

12 Q. What did you do as a guide?

13 A. My assignment as a guide was to show them the way they have to

14 take. They would tell me, We're supposed to go through Kostrc and to

15 reach Kladernica, and then would say, Well, this is the route we are

16 going to take. Then they told me, We have to go to Vis, up the hill to

17 the right towards Leocina, and then I chose the path. I knew the local

18 paths and that's why I was seconded to them.

19 Q. Thank you. When you said: "They would tell me ..." who gave you

20 the instructions as to the route that the unit would follow?

21 A. I don't know that. Specifically there was an officer there,

22 although I cannot recall his last name. I was with him. He would be

23 given instructions, I don't know from who, and he would simply tell me,

24 This is the way we should -- we are supposed to go, and I would take them

25 there, I would show them the way.

Page 23684

1 Q. Was this a police or an army officer?

2 A. He was from the police.

3 Q. And could you describe to me the uniform this officer wore?

4 A. He wore a green camouflage uniform with a flak jacket. On its

5 back, there were visible letters saying "police." The uniform was

6 camouflage green.

7 Q. You mentioned that some of the officers wore green camouflage

8 uniforms. Did any of them have the wording "milicija" on their uniforms?

9 A. As far as I remember, the term "milicija" stopped being used

10 quite some time before that, maybe even up to two years before that. I

11 know for sure that at that time we were the police, and that's what it

12 read on our uniforms, we were policemen, we were not "milicija."

13 Q. Excuse me, sir. I take it then that there were no -- you did not

14 see anyone with such uniforms marked "milicija"?

15 A. I didn't see anyone like that.

16 Q. So how big was this unit whom you were guiding, how many men were

17 in it?

18 A. I cannot tell you an exact figure, but as far as I could see, it

19 was a company, some 90 or 100 men. I am not versed in that, and I don't

20 know what the regular company should comprise, but more or less it was

21 the size of a company.

22 Q. So the unit you were guiding comprised of approximately 90 to a

23 hundred men who were either the police or the army; is that right?

24 A. Yes, more or less. However, on the first day there was the tank

25 and crew; and on the second day, a squad joined us of some seven, eight,

Page 23685

1 or ten men from the military.

2 Q. Were these men in any way differently dressed than the other army

3 officers who had joined you at the beginning of the operation?

4 A. No. They were all dressed the same; however, the people in the

5 crew were in the tank itself, so I couldn't see their uniforms.

6 Q. So when you were travelling with these units, how did you

7 communicate with them? How were your instructions passed on to you?

8 Were they handed to you verbally?

9 A. As I said a moment ago, there was the officer there, and I think

10 he was probably a platoon commander. I was with him and he would tell me

11 what we were supposed to do; and he would issue oral orders.

12 Q. Okay. So that was the only way, there were no radios involved;

13 you just received your instructions in person?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. So in terms of weapons carried by the men, did they have

16 machine-guns?

17 A. We had usual infantry weapons, automatic rifles and pistols that

18 each member had signed for, standard issue, that's all I saw.

19 Q. So you didn't see any machine-guns?

20 A. No, I didn't.

21 Q. And did you see any hand-grenades being carried by the men?

22 A. I didn't, I don't remember. Perhaps they were carrying some, but

23 I don't know.

24 Q. It's just that you don't remember?

25 A. Maybe I don't remember but in terms of something that I could

Page 23686

1 actually see them carrying hand-grenades on them, no, I didn't see that.

2 I think I would have remembered. I don't know what they had in their

3 pockets or in their flak jackets, but I certainly didn't see any.

4 Q. Was that because you were walking ahead from the unit or did you

5 travel with them?

6 A. I was with them and every now and then I fell behind a little

7 perhaps, but I certainly didn't walk ahead of them. That wasn't my

8 mission. There was a lot of firing in the area, and I would not have

9 relished the opportunity to be out at the front.

10 Q. So was this the only occasion you acted as a guide for these

11 units or any units for that matter?

12 A. Just that once.

13 Q. But even though it was only this one occasion, you're unable to

14 recall the weapons used by those you were escorting?

15 MR. LUKIC: I think that I have to object, that this is

16 misrepresentation. My witness explained exactly what kind of weapons

17 they had.

18 JUDGE BONOMY: What he said was what he saw, and you do have a

19 statement by the witness so far of his recollection of what he saw. Now,

20 are you challenging that?

21 MS. GOPALAN: Yes, I am.

22 JUDGE BONOMY: And the witness has said that those with him had

23 standard-issue automatic rifles and pistols. Now, what is it you're

24 actually putting to him?

25 MS. GOPALAN: Perhaps I could be more specific.

Page 23687

1 JUDGE BONOMY: Yeah, please, that would be better, I think.


3 Q. Sir, is it correct that you do not remember that these men were

4 carrying hand-grenades?

5 A. I never said they were not carrying hand-grenades. I said I

6 didn't see them carrying hand-grenades, which doesn't necessarily mean

7 that they weren't. I simply didn't see them. They didn't wear it on

8 them. Perhaps they had it somewhere else. I couldn't see that.

9 Q. Okay. Thank you. Sir, you mentioned that -- I'm sorry, before I

10 move on to that, do you happen to know which VJ unit you were escorting

11 during this operation?

12 A. I don't know exactly which VJ unit this was or who it belonged

13 to. I didn't ask about that, I didn't talk to them, and I didn't know

14 where the military had come from or which unit it was specifically.

15 Q. So you mentioned that on the 28th of March, 1999, you saw some

16 civilians in the road in Vocnjak or close to Vocnjak. Could you tell us

17 how many civilians you saw?

18 A. Not the 28th, the 27th, the afternoon on the 27th. I don't think

19 I can be specific about the figure. They were heading down that road,

20 and I really couldn't say. I can't be very specific. I could give you

21 figures such as 100, a thousand perhaps, there could have been more,

22 there could have been less, I simply can't say.

23 Q. And was that the only occasion on which you encountered civilians

24 during your three-day tour?

25 A. Yes, that was the only occasion over those three days that we

Page 23688

1 encountered civilians.

2 Q. Sir, we've had evidence in this trial that thousands of civilians

3 were seen in the Izbica valley area around the 26th of March, a large

4 number of civilian refugees --

5 MS. GOPALAN: And this for the purposes of the record is in the

6 witness statement of Liri Loshi.

7 Q. Do you still maintain that apart from this one occasion you did

8 not see any other civilians moving in a large number during the

9 time-period you were in the Izbica valley?

10 A. Just a minute, please. I didn't say that we were in the Izbica

11 valley, nor were we, in fact. We were at an elevation between Kladernica

12 and Izbica, and there was a forest between us and the valley itself.

13 Therefore, we could not see if there were any civilians in the valley or

14 not. The first time we set eyes on any civilians was the 27th, the

15 afternoon of the 27th, as far as I can remember; they were walking down

16 that road, and that's the extent of it.

17 Q. So from where you were on the 27th, you only saw between a

18 hundred to a thousand civilians; am I right?

19 A. No, I think you misunderstood me. What I'm saying is I can't say

20 whether there was 100, a thousand, 5.000, perhaps. I simply couldn't

21 tell. There could have been 2.000, 3.000, not that I could tell. They

22 were walking down that road, but from where I was you could only see a

23 limited section of the road, maybe only 500, 600 metres of the road, but

24 you can't actually see any further than that, because there are bends in

25 that road, there are forests over there, that sort of thing. I simply

Page 23689

1 couldn't see. I don't know.

2 Q. So how many civilians did you actually see on that day?

3 A. Oh, well, I am telling you that I can't be specific, aren't I? I

4 couldn't tell, so -- I don't know. In my opinion, I'm no expert. I

5 can't tell you how many there were. There were some, they were walking

6 down that road.

7 JUDGE BONOMY: In the part of the road that you could see, were

8 there more civilians than there were police and army?

9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, yes.

10 JUDGE BONOMY: So at least we know it was more than a hundred you

11 could see. Now, can you help us a bit more specifically?

12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, perhaps between -- more than

13 a thousand, roughly speaking.

14 JUDGE BONOMY: And that's simply in the area that you can see?

15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] That's right. There's an open view

16 from this hill, you can see the valley and the section is about 500 or

17 600 metres long, as far as I remember; and that was the portion that I

18 could see and I saw them walk down that road.

19 JUDGE BONOMY: Ms. Gopalan.

20 MS. GOPALAN: Thank you.

21 Q. Sir, we've had documentary evidence in this trial that

22 approximately around the 28th of March, 1999, several thousand civilian

23 refugees were expected in the Vocnjak village sector.

24 MS. GOPALAN: For the trial record this is Exhibit P2046, it is a

25 combat report dated the 28th of March, 1999, signed by the commander of

Page 23690

1 the 37th Motorised Brigade, Colonel Dikovic. I do not propose to show

2 this exhibit to the witness, but I will simply say that the colonel has

3 stated that: "In the forthcoming operations in the Vocnjak village

4 sector, we expect to encounter shelters with several thousand civilian

5 refugees."

6 Q. Sir, do you know why these civilian refugees were expected in the

7 Vocnjak sector?

8 A. No.

9 Q. You would agree with me, though, that the village of Izbica is

10 approximately 2 kilometres or less to the north of Vocnjak, yes or no?

11 A. I'm not sure about north. The distance is about 2 kilometres,

12 yes.

13 Q. And you were just outside the village of Izbica on the 28th of

14 March with the units you were guiding?

15 A. No, it wasn't the 28th. On the 28th we are still in the village

16 of Blocnje. They came there to get us in the morning, they came with

17 buses and they took us to Metrohijska Klina.

18 Q. Sorry, is the village of -- could you please repeat the village

19 you were at on the 28th, the name of the village, please.

20 A. Broc na.

21 Q. Were you in Vocnjak at all?

22 A. We passed through it on the way and then we reached Brocna. I

23 said that already, we took the road through Vocnjak and we reached

24 Brocna.

25 Q. After the 28th, where did you go?

Page 23691

1 A. After the 28th, after I had stayed behind in Klina, I went home

2 to Siga village, Pec municipality, because that was the day my shift

3 ended. In our department, we are facing a difficult situation and it was

4 difficult to travel. So we only had five-day shifts. I would spend five

5 days at the station and five days at home. I would, for example, spend

6 five days at home, after which I would go back to the Junik [as

7 interpreted] police station, and I would go about our regular, daily

8 tasks.

9 Q. I'd now like to move on to another area --

10 MR. LUKIC: I'm sorry, just for the transcript, it might cause

11 confusion, page 23, line 6, it's not Junik, it's Rudnik.

12 JUDGE BONOMY: The other one that may cause confusion for all I

13 know is Brocna. Is that meant to be, as far as you're aware, Mr. Lukic,

14 the same village as Brocna?

15 MR. LUKIC: No.

16 JUDGE BONOMY: These are two different villages.

17 MR. LUKIC: You go through Brocna to reach Brocna.

18 JUDGE BONOMY: The trouble is that the evidence is earlier

19 recorded as, "going through Vocnjak to read Brocna."

20 MR. LUKIC: Every time should be Brocna, I think.

21 JUDGE BONOMY: So if you look at page 22, line 16.

22 MR. LUKIC: Yes, I didn't want to jump every time.

23 JUDGE BONOMY: Can I take it that that name is not the name of a

24 village in this area, B-l-o-c-n-j-a?

25 MR. LUKIC: Every time it's Brocna, it shouldn't be Brocna.

Page 23692

1 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.

2 Ms. Gopalan.


4 Q. Now I would like to go back to mid-1998. Are you aware of any

5 anti-terrorist operations conducted in the area of the 18 villages you

6 mentioned earlier, your area, between mid-July 1998 and October 1998?

7 A. At the time we were at the station. I'm just relying on my

8 recollection. The main road was blocked and it continued to be blocked

9 for up to two months. I know that there was a clearing operation,

10 operation that was launched to clear that road. As for any other

11 actions, I don't know if any other actions took place or not. My

12 position was not such -- was not such that I would have known of any

13 actions that were taking place.

14 Q. And was this action conducted by the MUP only or by the VJ and

15 the MUP jointly?

16 A. I don't know about that one action. The road is over 20

17 kilometres long, and we ourselves were at Rudnik. The road was being

18 cleared from Rudnik to Mitrovica. I didn't realize what units were

19 involved. I was, in a manner of speaking, just an ordinary police

20 officer. I was not privy to that sort of detail.

21 Q. Thank you very much, sir.

22 MS. GOPALAN: I have no further questions.

23 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you, Ms. Gopalan.

24 Questioned by the Court:

25 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Pantic, how could you distinguish a police

Page 23693

1 officer -- a policeman, rather, from a soldier during the action between

2 the 26th and 28th of March?

3 A. Because of what their uniforms said. The police wore combat

4 jackets, that's what we used to call them, and it said "police." And on

5 the front side of their jackets they had a small pocket with a writing in

6 white letters that said "police."

7 JUDGE BONOMY: Were there more police than army in the action?

8 A. Yes, more police.

9 JUDGE BONOMY: Can you tell us roughly what proportion were

10 police?

11 A. Well, as I said before, there was a police company involved, that

12 was as far as I was able to see. As far as the military, I'm not sure

13 about how big that tank crew was. There might have been a squad there,

14 maybe seven, eight, up to ten soldiers.

15 JUDGE BONOMY: I have so far formed the impression that there

16 were more soldiers than simply the tank crew; is that wrong?

17 A. No, no. That's not wrong. As I said before, on the next day

18 there was a squad that joined us, a squad of the military, between seven

19 and ten men in addition to the tank crew.

20 JUDGE BONOMY: But I also had the impression that when you first

21 met up with the team that there were soldiers there in addition to the

22 tank crew; is that wrong?

23 A. Yes, that is wrong, I'm afraid. The only soldiers surrounding

24 the tank were the crew, and they later got into the tank. Actually, they

25 had begun to climb the tank already, but the commander of that crew was

Page 23694

1 standing at the top of the turret. But there were no other soldiers in

2 addition to those around the tank.

3 JUDGE BONOMY: Were you -- sorry, when you joined the team, was

4 the tank already there?

5 A. Yes, yes. The tank was exactly at this position from which we

6 then started out.

7 JUDGE BONOMY: So who commanded this team in the action?

8 A. I don't know.

9 JUDGE BONOMY: I find that difficult to accept. Who commanded

10 it?

11 A. All right. I know and I said that, that I was attached, and

12 there was a man from a brigade, I think he was the platoon commander, I

13 was with that man. I don't know who he was receiving instructions from.

14 It was above my head. I didn't know who was in command or who was

15 issuing orders.

16 JUDGE BONOMY: The platoon commander you refer to, was he a

17 policeman or a soldier?

18 A. He was a member of the police.

19 JUDGE BONOMY: Was this a police PJP unit or company?

20 A. Yes, yes, a member of the PJP from Belgrade.

21 JUDGE BONOMY: Which one was it, do you know the number of it?

22 A. No, no. I didn't see that. I don't think they actually had

23 their number displayed on their uniforms. None that I saw at least.

24 JUDGE BONOMY: Now, you earlier indicated that it -- the strength

25 of the police was about a company, but you talk about a platoon commander

Page 23695

1 being in charge. Could you clarify that for me?

2 A. The level was that of a platoon. It was from that level that I

3 was seconded or attached to this new level to be in charge, and there was

4 some platoon commander which in the roughest of terms -- well, what sort

5 of manpower could he be in charge of, about 30 men. But in that company

6 we had three such platoon commanders. There was only one that I was in

7 touch with because I was there to work with him, to help him out. So it

8 was he who told me where we should be headed, and he was issuing orders

9 to me as to where we were supposed to go to.

10 JUDGE BONOMY: Was he issuing orders to the other two platoons as

11 well?

12 A. No.

13 JUDGE BONOMY: So who was in command of this action?

14 A. Overall, as I said, I don't know. I know they were from

15 Belgrade. Those three men had their own superior officer whose name I do

16 not know. I don't know. I couldn't see them all the time. They had

17 some links, and they used radio links to communicate.

18 JUDGE BONOMY: Maybe I read too much into your earlier answer,

19 but I thought you told us that communication was by word of mouth.

20 A. By word of mouth, the link between me and him because that was

21 the question that was raised as far as I remember, how I communicated

22 with that, or rather, how he was issuing orders to me.

23 JUDGE BONOMY: When you were sent from your own office to act as

24 the guide, who were you instructed to make contact with when you got

25 there?

Page 23696

1 A. This was just outside the station, the police station, at Rudnik.

2 This man that I was with, he came to the station and we headed out

3 together pursuant to orders by my commander. We headed out some 50

4 metres, which is right outside the police station, and that's where we

5 began moving.

6 JUDGE BONOMY: And who was this man that you met outside the

7 police station?

8 A. This commander, platoon commander, that I was with later

9 throughout.

10 JUDGE BONOMY: So he told you where you -- the names of the

11 places you were to go to, but he didn't lead the other two platoons in

12 the right direction, somehow or other that just happened; is that the

13 position?

14 A. I was with him as a guide. I was attached to this unit from

15 Belgrade, the company, in that capacity. So we started out. They told

16 me what my job was. They said let's go to Kostrc, and I would tell them

17 let's take this path to get there. Who were they receiving orders from

18 in terms of where we should go, now that is something that I don't know.

19 JUDGE BONOMY: But as the result of you leading him in a

20 particular direction, did the others follow in the same direction?

21 A. Yes, yes, this is how we went. We moved forward practically

22 together.

23 JUDGE BONOMY: How did he communicate with the army?

24 A. I don't know.

25 JUDGE BONOMY: Did the tank travel behind you or in front of you?

Page 23697

1 A. Depending on the situation and the road, the terrain, the first

2 day as we were going on a kind of road they went parallel with us; the

3 second and the third day he lagged a bit behind, more to the left or to

4 the right.

5 JUDGE BONOMY: Which brigade were the soldiers from?

6 A. I don't know. I don't know the brigade.

7 [Trial Chamber confers]

8 JUDGE BONOMY: Ms. Gopalan, does anything arise from that for

9 you?

10 MS. GOPALAN: No, Your Honour.

11 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.

12 Re-examination, Mr. Lukic?

13 MR. LUKIC: Only one question because of your questions, Your

14 Honour.

15 Re-examination by Mr. Lukic:

16 Q. [Interpretation] Just one question, Mr. Pantic. You were asked

17 by Judge Bonomy whether there were more army troops or policemen. When

18 you answered did you mean only your group or the entire action?

19 A. No, I don't know about the action as a whole. It's in the group

20 that I was in that there were more policemen.

21 Q. Thank you for coming here to today.

22 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] No further questions.

23 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you, Mr. Lukic.

24 Mr. Pantic, that completes your evidence. Thank you for coming

25 here to give evidence. You may now leave the courtroom with the usher.

Page 23698

1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.

2 [The witness withdrew]

3 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic, the next witness?

4 MR. LUKIC: Yes, Your Honour, our next witness is

5 Mr. Petar Damjanac.

6 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.

7 [Trial Chamber confers]

8 [The witness entered court]

9 JUDGE BONOMY: Good morning, Mr. Damjanac.

10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.

11 JUDGE BONOMY: Would you please make the solemn declaration to

12 speak the truth by reading aloud the document which the usher will show

13 you.

14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

15 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

16 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you. Now, I'm told you might find it more

17 comfortable to stand rather than sit. Which would you prefer?

18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, I would sit for the time

19 being, and if I need to stand up I'll ask your permission.

20 JUDGE BONOMY: That's exactly what to do, so please be seated.

21 You'll now be examined by Mr. Lukic.

22 Mr. Lukic.

23 MR. LUKIC: Thank you, Your Honour.


25 [Witness answered through interpreter]

Page 23699

1 Examination by Mr. Lukic:

2 Q. [Interpretation] Good morning, Mr. Damjanac.

3 A. My respects.

4 Q. I have some documentation here for you. We did not manage to put

5 it in order yesterday, but we'll still try to go through it. It's easier

6 than calling up documents on the screen sometimes. Can we begin?

7 A. Yes, yes.

8 Q. Could you please introduce yourself.

9 A. My name is Petar Damjanac, Savo is my father's name, mother's

10 name Javanka Petricic born in Novo Cikatovo village, Glogovac

11 municipality. I lived with my parents in 1966, or rather, 1969, when

12 they were forced to leave our native village. I continued my schooling

13 in the nearest town and did my university studies in Pristina. I found

14 employment in the Republic of Serbia in the secretariat of internal

15 affairs of Pristina. I started working as an inspector in criminal

16 investigations in SUP Pristina. I was one of the senior staff in the

17 crime police, and in 1991 in the notorious incidents when Albanians

18 staged a walk-out from the police force, I was sent to SUP [as

19 interpreted] in Glogovac, the department of internal affairs of Lipljan,

20 as a head of the operative personnel. I worked there on that position in

21 1990 and 1991, when they pulled me back into my original work position,

22 where I worked until end 1997 as chief of the crime police. When I was

23 sent to SUP [as interpreted] in Glogovac, my hometown where I worked to

24 the best of my ability until 1st May 1999 until the 16th of June I worked

25 in the crime police.

Page 23700

1 After the 16th of June, 1999, since our SUP was relocated to

2 Niska Banja, 7 or 8 kilometres outside Nis, for family reasons because my

3 family was living in Kragujevac at the time, from end June until the

4 beginning of year 2000, I worked in Kragujevac; and after that I

5 transferred to SUP Belgrade, section number 1, where I worked until

6 retirement in August last year. That was my career.

7 Q. Thank you, Mr. Damjanac. I believe it is time for the break now.

8 We will continue after the break.

9 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Damjanac, the system here is that we do have a

10 break around this time each day. We will take that break for 20 minutes;

11 while we have it, could you please leave the courtroom with the usher.

12 [The witness stands down]

13 JUDGE BONOMY: We shall resume at ten to 11.00.

14 --- Recess taken at 10.30 a.m.

15 --- On resuming at 10.50 a.m.

16 [The witness takes the stand]

17 JUDGE BONOMY: Please continue, Mr. Lukic.

18 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

19 Q. Mr. Damjanac, are you ready?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. You mentioned that your Albanian colleagues walked out. Just

22 before that it was recorded that you mentioned on page 31, line 21, SUP

23 Glogovac. Was there a SUP in Glogovac or an OUP?

24 A. It was an OUP, but it was territorially organized in Pristina as

25 SUPs in municipalities. So when I find -- found work, I found work in

Page 23701

1 the secretariat of Pristina which was under the jurisdiction of the

2 municipality of Pristina, the city of Pristina, and it was linked

3 horizontally and vertically with the MUP of Serbia through the provincial

4 SUP but it was at the level of the municipality. Later it changed and it

5 was called the security centre, former OUPs were called security centres.

6 It was just a name change, but organizationally it was OUP Glogovac,

7 linked to the SUP of Pristina or the security centre.

8 Q. So your Albanian colleagues walked out in 1990 and 1991,

9 abandoning their jobs in MUP. What was the reason, why did they no

10 longer work after that period?

11 A. I'm very familiar with the subject because I studied the

12 statistics at that time. From 1964 until the end of 1989 and 1990, on

13 the territory of Kosovo and Metohija in terms of ethnic representation in

14 the SUP, or rather, the MUP of the Republic of Serbia was 90 per cent of

15 Albanians or Siptars, as they were called until it changed in 1969, and

16 only 10 per cent conditionally speaking were non-Albanians, Serbs,

17 Montenegrins, Turks, Muslims, the Gorani, Croats, et cetera. In 1989

18 Rugova's party was established called DSK when the multi-party system was

19 introduced in Serbia. Already in 1989 a new platform took shape, geared

20 at creating Greater Albania but through the institutions of the system.

21 We have to bear in mind that this was soon followed by the amnesty of

22 political prisoners led by Adem Demaqi and hundreds of others Albanian

23 extremists who used the multi-party system to legalise their underground

24 political organizations. In 1990 Rugova's party, the DSK, Rugova, and

25 his associates an illegal Assembly in Kacanik, an illegal parliament

Page 23702

1 called the Kacanik parliament, that happened sometime in September 1990.

2 And that is when the constitution of the so-called Republic of Kosova was

3 adopted. They formed all the institutions envisaged by the constitution,

4 beginning with the government and all the ministries, the ministry of the

5 army, the police, education, and everything else. And a demand was made

6 at that time that all members of the ethnic Albanian minority working in

7 state institutions, in health care, the education system, socially owned

8 enterprises, and so on should abandon all the Serbian state agencies in

9 order to form a parallel system with parallel agencies. Let me just

10 mention that our colleagues, Siptars, I'll call them Siptars because

11 officially we always called them like that and they called themselves

12 Siptars, they demanded, although there was little media coverage of that,

13 that parallel police stations be set up. In other words, that within one

14 and the same system parallel structures would be formed. We, the Serbs,

15 would be on one side and they, Albanians, would have everything of their

16 own, their own barracks, their own everything.

17 It is also worth mentioning the discipline that prevailed among

18 this ethnic Albanian minority. In 1990 and 1991 as far as internal

19 affairs are concerned, they all obeyed the order of their illegal

20 leadership, their illegal parliament, of the already-proclaimed Republic

21 of Kosovo, and walked out of their jobs in the Ministry of the Interior

22 of the Republic of Serbia, the autonomous province of Kosovo. I say

23 Kosovo because Metohija was erased after the destructive demonstrations

24 in 1968, and it was always called Kosovo from the liberation onwards --

25 it was always called Kosovo and Metohija from the liberation. There was

Page 23703

1 a situation when the UN issued a document concerning health care where

2 they said that although the majority of Albanian medical employees left

3 their jobs and in 1998 the percentage they represented was 50.83 per

4 cent. Most of the doctors and nurses were Albanians and 90 per cent of

5 the patients were ethnic Albanians.

6 In the education system, which was another burning issue --


8 MR. OREN: I'm not quite sure if I see the importance or

9 relevance of this part of the statement.

10 MR. LUKIC: I just wanted to deal with the -- this.

11 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, it's been interrupted now, so your objective

12 has been achieved.

13 Mr. Lukic.

14 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

15 Q. Mr. Damjanac, I know you spent a lot of time studying this

16 problem and you issued articles and so on and so forth, but we are

17 limited in terms of time here. Therefore, please focus on my questions

18 and try to provide brief answers to them. In relation to this topic, I

19 wanted to ask you if you know of any specific examples of the names of

20 people who left the MUP at the time?

21 A. Since, as I said, I was employed with the SUP in Pristina during

22 that time and given that we had a very fair work-mate relationship, since

23 we also associated out of office with our Siptar colleagues, we attended

24 parties and funerals together, our mutual relationship was very good.

25 Once that moment of separation arrived, it was very difficult for all of

Page 23704

1 us and I believe for many of the Albanians loyal to the state of Serbia.

2 I spoke to most of them, I asked them what it was all about, and they

3 said, You will never understand this. We simply have to do that.

4 Years passed by and I don't remember many names. Also, I don't

5 want to mention many names because I don't want them to get hurt by their

6 own ethnic groups since by this time they have moved on to other jobs.

7 But I will mention a specific case of my very good work-mate, a comrade

8 who attended Serbian parties, marriages, burials as well, this was

9 Fadil Abazi, he was the head of the so-called All People's Defence, it

10 was a formation within the SUP of Pristina. His wife was also employed

11 with the SUP of Pristina in the analytical department. When the people

12 had begun leaving, he tried to leave the SUP as quietly as possible as

13 well, and after that I met him in the street. I asked him, Fajo, since

14 that was his nickname, what was it that prompted you to join that group?

15 I knew him as a loyal citizen and his father was a policeman in Pec as

16 well. He said, Well, you cannot do anything against sheer force. That

17 was his explanation. Therefore, any further discussion was useless.

18 They were trying to be fair, but they were clearly trying to steer clear

19 of that topic. Perhaps I can expand a bit further.

20 Concerning their walk-out, it was also a difficult time for me

21 since I had a number of colleagues that I shared good and bad with. They

22 left and they simply abandoned me, so to say.

23 Q. Mr. Damjanac, if we continue this way we won't be able to cover

24 some important topics. We've been talking about this for ten minutes and

25 we've only come up with a single name.

Page 23705

1 A. I can mention the names of 90 per cent of the people I remember.

2 Practically all of them who had been employed left. I failed to answer

3 an important issue, which is a number of Albanians who remained, they

4 never left. Among those, there was a number of Albanians who were tasked

5 with staying to pass on information from within the state institutions on

6 behalf of the illegal government of Kosovo and Metohija. This was proven

7 at a later stage. Some of my colleagues were later identified as KLA

8 executioners. I believe that is necessary to mention. If you want me to

9 mention names, I will gladly do so. I can explain it graphically,

10 including the events that those so-called colleagues participated in.

11 They used to be diligent detectives --

12 JUDGE BONOMY: Just one moment. So you say that the KLA existed

13 in 1990?

14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] If I may, Your Honour, I was born

15 in that very area, the central part of --

16 JUDGE BONOMY: It's a question that demands a yes or no answer.

17 Do you say that the KLA existed in 1990?

18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Even before that, but under a

19 different name. If I may, I can tell you when they officially came out

20 for the first time as the KLA because I was immediately involved in the

21 shedding light on the murder at the border crossing in Glogovac when the

22 current prime minister, Thaqi, since he was the right hand of Adem Demaqi

23 and a few other extremists, killed some of my colleagues who were driving

24 to work in a van. The very next year, 1994 --

25 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, that was 1993. Thank you.

Page 23706

1 Mr. Lukic.

2 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

3 Q. We will go back to that if there will be any need to do so, but

4 can you tell us what the names of the people who stayed in the police

5 are?

6 A. For example, there were departments, for example, the crime

7 police or the uniformed police, and in those there were certain Siptars,

8 a certain number of Siptars. I cannot speculate as to any exact figures,

9 but I'd say some 10 per cent or more. They were in all departments at

10 all levels. None of them was moved or removed from their positions.

11 Many were even promoted.

12 Q. After --

13 JUDGE BONOMY: Can I just -- no, no, we'll come to it later.

14 Please continue, Mr. Lukic.

15 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

16 Q. Can you tell us of some examples after the Yugoslav forces had

17 withdrawn, what the fate of some of those people who stayed to work for

18 the police was?

19 A. What period of withdrawal do you mean?

20 Q. 1999, but briefly please.

21 A. In the area of Glogovac, and I will speak only of my policemen

22 although I could expand that to include the SUP of Pristina since I

23 worked there as well, however, in the OUP of Glogovac Xhafer Qorri,

24 assistant commander was killed. After several attempts which had failed

25 by the KLA to kill him and his family, he was final killed -- well, there

Page 23707

1 are documents, as far as I recall. It is the 11th of November and we can

2 go back to the documents --

3 JUDGE BONOMY: The 11th of November in which year?

4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] November -- the 11th of November,

5 1998, I'm still in 1998.

6 JUDGE BONOMY: That's not what the question's about. The

7 question you were asked is about the fate of policemen who stayed after

8 the forces withdrew in 1999. If Mr. Lukic wants to ask you about 1998,

9 he'll go back to that. He wants to know about the Albanian police

10 officers who stayed behind after June 1999 and what their fate was.

11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] After the withdrawal of the Serb

12 forces and the events during 1999, a number of Albanian policemen went

13 into hiding, mainly in Skopje, so as to escape the KLA revenge. A number

14 of them went into retirement. Ahmet Bruna, who was a police colonel, was

15 in hiding for a period of time and he retired, he also spent some time in

16 Serbia, in Belgrade, in some Scandinavian countries as well. I have

17 direct knowledge of that since we were also friends apart from being

18 colleagues. Hamza Hajra was a detective of mine in Glogovac. He was

19 hiding in Skopje for a while and then --

20 JUDGE BONOMY: Tell us about the ones that were killed or

21 kidnapped or anything of that nature for remaining behind.

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, I was about to before you

23 interrupted me, Your Honour. I wanted to tell you of Hamza Hajra. There

24 was an attempt on his life for three times, but finally he was killed in

25 2001 when he tried to go back to Glogovac since he was born there. He

Page 23708

1 was killed in a vehicle together with his wife and three children. They

2 were massacred in the bloodiest of ways. He was an Albanian who was

3 truly loyal, a good worker, and tried to go back to his place of birth.

4 He was killed with his entire family. He was simply destroyed. Killed

5 would be putting it too lightly. All those who stayed within the

6 service, they had to leave Kosovo and Metohija.

7 JUDGE BONOMY: Can you tell us just in brief terms how was he

8 killed?

9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] A group of KLA members opened fire

10 from several directions on the vehicle he was driving in with his entire

11 family. Only by pure chance did a single child survive. They were all

12 killed in the centre of Glogovac. There is abundant documentation in

13 existence and I believe international forces also verified that and

14 conducted an on-site investigation. As far as I --

15 JUDGE BONOMY: What others were killed?

16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Xhafer Qorri was killed, although

17 that was before the end of the war and they tried to kill his entire

18 family as well. Qerim Qshishku, assistant commander, managed to flee

19 Kosovo and Metohija, and I don't know in which country he is now --

20 JUDGE BONOMY: Were any others killed after June 1999 that you

21 can identify?

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In Glogovac, where I was, two of

23 those who stayed were killed, the rest fled, trying to save their skins

24 and families. That is put in the briefest possible of terms.

25 JUDGE BONOMY: So who were these two?

Page 23709

1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Xhafer Qorri was assistant

2 commander of the police station in Glogovac.

3 JUDGE BONOMY: And when was he killed?

4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In November 1998 --

5 JUDGE BONOMY: We're not talking about 1998. We're talking about

6 after June 1999. Do you understand that?

7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I do, I do.

8 JUDGE BONOMY: So how many more were killed after June 1999

9 because they stayed behind in Kosovo and were targets for revenge?

10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Hamza Hajra was killed in 2001 --

11 JUDGE BONOMY: We've had him, haven't we?

12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The rest did not return and there

13 were so few of them left they were not killed, their numbers were limited

14 in the service in that time.

15 JUDGE BONOMY: Just a second. So there is one example of a

16 policeman who remained being killed after May -- June 1999 that you can

17 identify. Can you now help me with a different question. Can you tell

18 me of - and if you need to go into private session we'll do

19 that - Albanian police officers who left Kosovo with the forces which

20 left in June 1999? Can you give me some names? And if you want to

21 protect their privacy we'll go into private session. Now, do you have

22 names of such people?

23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Zenel Hoti --

24 JUDGE BONOMY: Just a second. Should we hear this from you in

25 private rather than in open court?

Page 23710

1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I think it can be in public session

2 since this is a well-known fact. In the meantime he returned to Kosovo

3 and Metohija, although I don't know where exactly. As far as I know, he

4 does reside in Kosovo and Metohija. Zenel Hoti worked in Glogovac for a

5 while. He was a detective. Then in the SUP of Pristina until 1999, when

6 he withdrew with our units, I think he worked for the SUP in Belgrade --

7 JUDGE BONOMY: And do you say he now lives in Kosovo?

8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, yes, for two years now he's

9 been living there.

10 JUDGE BONOMY: Any who have left permanently as of May or June

11 1999?

12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Many left. A lot of time has

13 passed, and I cannot recall all of the names, but, for example, Tolaj, a

14 traffic policeman, first name Ismet, he retired from the SUP in Belgrade,

15 he was an Albanian. He wasn't the only one. Many of them retired in the

16 end after working in the SUPs of Serbia proper. I remember him, for

17 example.

18 JUDGE BONOMY: So he -- but they worked in Kosovo right up until

19 June 1999; is that the position?

20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, yes.

21 JUDGE BONOMY: Then left?

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, they withdrew together with us.

23 JUDGE BONOMY: Okay. So that's one. Are there others?

24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, as I say, I've forgotten most

25 of the names because there were too many to remember. In each of the

Page 23711

1 SUPs there was someone, one of the members of the Albanian ethnic

2 minority or the Gorani or whoever, Muslims, people who adhered to Islam,

3 the numbers were enormous. Another example that I can now remember was

4 Mujo Kujovic, who also retired from the Belgrade SUP. He happens to be a

5 Muslim. And --

6 JUDGE BONOMY: Is he an Albanian?

7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] They're Muslims. Ismet Tolaj is an

8 Albanian --

9 JUDGE BONOMY: I'm asking you about Kosovo Albanians. Now,

10 you've given me one name. Can you give me any more?

11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I -- well, only those I personally

12 socialised with and those who were around me, those are the only people I

13 can remember, and I don't know their names. I used to meet them a lot,

14 but I really don't know their names.

15 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.

16 Mr. Lukic.

17 JUDGE CHOWHAN: I just have a question for you. Now, you said

18 that people abandoned their jobs. You also said that some retired. Now,

19 when you talk of abandoning of the jobs, does it mean they just went away

20 and were absent from their job or did they resign? And about retirement,

21 you mean they retired in due course, which is reaching a certain age. So

22 what do you mean by this, can you kindly clarify?

23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, yes. Yes, yes. I understand

24 you clearly. Some -- for example, if you look at where I worked

25 directly, a police officer who after the first clashes in Likosane was

Page 23712

1 directly involved and was a very good police officer, really, I can't for

2 the life of me remember his name, there might be some documents to that

3 effect, he never spoke to anyone, never got back to anyone, he just left

4 for Switzerland in order not to be subjected to any pressure by his own

5 people. Because he had family over there, his brothers who were working

6 there. Qerim Qshishku, as I say, assistant commander had been working as

7 inspector for a long time, assistant inspector, very capable. In 1999

8 when he had already received threats that something would be destroyed he

9 was very open with me that they would crush his family, destroy his

10 family. There was an attempt on his life, and he never got back to

11 anyone -- well, that was the usual. I know that they applied they never

12 spoke to anyone. He just left. For example, something that we call he

13 left and nobody knew where he went to, someone else who abandoned his

14 post Medo Agovic for example, another Muslim from Milica near Pec, one of

15 the police officers from our original team at the time his family was

16 still in Pec, they were in danger, and he said -- I cannot continue to

17 work here anymore --

18 JUDGE CHOWHAN: I'm sorry, I didn't mean -- I didn't ask for the

19 reasons why they did all that. I'm just saying what was the modus,

20 whether they resigned, whether they just left without leaving a leave

21 application, and about those who retired whether they retired because of

22 the age or having served for such long. That's the only question I've

23 asked.

24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, yes, yes, fine, that's fine,

25 that's fine. The gist is this, those who left, they didn't announce that

Page 23713

1 to anyone. We were extremely tolerant in that sense. We crossed the

2 threshold, the legal threshold, and were ready to take responsibility for

3 that all in the belief that they would soon return when we heard that

4 they had left in order to go abroad and that they were not to return, and

5 then as they say it was the final --

6 JUDGE CHOWHAN: That's okay. I have understood. What about

7 those --

8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I apologise. Let me just say

9 something else about your question. In the case of retirement, this was

10 perfectly legal once they had reached a legal age.

11 JUDGE CHOWHAN: Thank you.

12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] -- to be retired and there is not a

13 single case that I am aware of. You see what I am saying that someone

14 was retired before they had reached their legal age limit or in any other

15 way.

16 JUDGE CHOWHAN: Thank you.

17 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic.

18 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

19 Q. Mr. Damjanac, I really appreciate your knowledge, the sheer depth

20 and breadth of your knowledge, but let me be very graphic about where we

21 stand right now. I've asked you a hundred questions and you've answered

22 two. We've used up a lot of time. If we go on like this, you'll end up

23 answer maybe a grand total of four of my questions. I will simply have

24 to put an end to this exercise. Therefore, could you please focus,

25 answer my questions, we cannot go on like this, it is entirely

Page 23714

1 impossible, because the Rules of this court do not allow for anything

2 like that. Please focus, answer my questions. Can we press on, please?

3 A. Yes, certainly.

4 Q. You say you were born in Glogovac. Which area is that?

5 A. The Drenica area, and again I have to as they --

6 Q. Just please, as briefly as you can.

7 A. The Drenica area, yeah, sure as briefly as I can. The documents

8 about the Drenica area go back to before the Turks invaded the area of

9 Kosovo and Metohija. Other than that, the well-known Emperor

10 Vuk Brankovic ruled the area, he was born in Trstenik, which is a mere 5

11 metres --

12 JUDGE BONOMY: I have to intervene at this stage. The rules here

13 are quite clear. I don't know what your experience is of courts

14 elsewhere, perhaps in your own home country, but in this court you answer

15 the questions that you are asked. Now, you were asked a very simple

16 question, which area is Glogovac in and you answered it in three words:

17 The Drenica area.

18 Mr. Lukic will now ask you what he wants to ask you next.

19 Mr. Lukic.

20 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you very much, Your Honour.

21 Q. Briefly, please, three or four sentences if you can about the

22 more recent history, the problems in this area, they date back to when

23 exactly and who was it who fought who else?

24 A. The Drenica area after the Second World War Srez which is the

25 centre of Drenica's administration after World War II was Srbica and

Page 23715

1 Glogovac. Comprising today's Srbica area and Glogovac area. So this is

2 the main stronghold in the Drenica area. Between World War II and the

3 1990s in both Glogovac and Srbica, as they say, at the top positions in

4 the administrative sense in Srez and in the municipalities there were

5 only Albanians and their deputies were Serbs. Likewise, I can tell you

6 briefly, if you like, about that explains something more about that. You

7 can't view this in isolation. I mean, Glogovac municipality is isolated

8 from Srbica municipality, it's all one thing, that's how the people see

9 it, both Serbs and Albanians alike.

10 Here I'll name you an example, the typical example. After World

11 War II the first president was a man named Bajram Trnavac, who was a

12 president of the Srez, S-r-e-z.

13 Q. Mr. Damjanac, we simply cannot go on like this, we really cannot.

14 Why was the command staff at the Glogovac OUP replaced? If you keep on

15 being as expansive as you've so far been, we simply will not be able to

16 go on.

17 A. There had been frequent terror attacks on citizens and state

18 bodies in Glogovac. As early as in 1970s and the command staff of the

19 Glogovac OUP was physically and mentally eradicated, it was an

20 intolerable situation and no one could put up with it. One thing we must

21 point out is that the municipality of Glogovac itself contains 37

22 villages over 50.000 inhabitants, ethnically almost entirely Albanian

23 with the example of 27 Serbs who were actually recorded in Glogovac

24 municipality. After 1995 there was the terrorist action taken by the

25 Croat army known as Operation Oluja, Operation Storm, there were new

Page 23716

1 refugees now, a total of 45 Serb families who fled the area where the

2 clashes were taking place, and they take refuge now in workers' huts --

3 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic, you'll draw my attention to if you need

4 this evidence and you'll be allowed to ask it if you've judged it as

5 necessary, but your question was: Why was the command staff at the

6 Glogovac OUP replaced? Now can we have a time-scale for that, what's the

7 date, and that might then concentrate the witness's minded.

8 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

9 Q. What about 1997, why did you come to the Glogovac OUP?

10 A. I'll try to be even more specific than that. In March 1997

11 within the compound of the Glogovac police station there had been an

12 attempt on the commander's life and the commander was Svetozar

13 Barjaktarvic there had been frequent attacks against the police station

14 or the Glogovac OUP, if you like. As they say, the chief of the OUP, the

15 commander, his assistants, and all the police officers had been so

16 exhausted by this time that they started applying in writing and in other

17 ways for a replacement.

18 Q. All right. They're asking to be replaced. So who's coming in?

19 A. As far as the commanding staff was concerned, there was an

20 experienced commander who came, rather senior, Radovan Lakusic, who had

21 been to all the police stations everywhere and had been a commander in a

22 number of different places in Pristina, and then after him -- well, since

23 I was born a mere kilometre from the Glogovac police station or the OUP,

24 the commanding staff, right, that's what I'm talking about of the

25 Pristina SUP, took this decision to dispatch me to the area in the belief

Page 23717

1 that I would be able to hold out under those circumstances, and I'm

2 talking about the sort of circumstances that prevailed at the time.

3 Q. Were there any attacks against Albanians back in 1997, briefly,

4 please?

5 A. Yes, quite many.

6 Q. Name a few persons, if you can, briefly tell us about those

7 attacks.

8 A. As for specific names, well, it must be recorded somewhere, there

9 must be documents to that effect. There must be diaries that were kept

10 about attacks, about cases of looting, vehicles being stolen, weapons

11 being stolen. There were certain situations which the owner of the

12 inhabitants of Glogovac was affronted, but there were many situations and

13 I don't think I could name anyone specifically without documents to show

14 for it. I think I might go wrong and name the wrong people; that's what

15 I'm afraid of.

16 Q. All right.

17 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we please have 6D1114.

18 Q. You have the documents in your binder, so please try to find it,

19 and we need page 1 of that document. There is no translation for this

20 document, but we only want the name of that person, and I want to know if

21 you remember this specific attack.

22 A. Yes -- I'm sorry. It was part of the KLA's strategy to first

23 liquidate all ethnic Albanians who were working for the state because

24 they viewed these people as associates or collaborators of the service.

25 So the name given here is Muja Sejdi, born in 1946, he was a forest

Page 23718

1 keeper working for Serbia's forests, public company, Glogovac department,

2 I remember this incident with particular clarity. He was killed on the

3 12th of January in the morning on a village road near his house in

4 Gradica village, Glogovac municipality.

5 Q. All right. Let's move on to paragraph number 4. Who is that

6 paragraph about?

7 A. Let me see if I can recall that paragraph 4.

8 Q. No, paragraph 4 right there, you see what I'm trying to say?

9 A. Oh, fine, I understand now. Mustafa Kurtaj, let me mention first

10 that he -- about Sejdi, he had 12 children, Mustafa Kurtaj was born in

11 1971, he worked for Serbia's PTT Glogovac branch office, I knew him

12 personally, he was a very nice lad, two children, again, he was killed in

13 his own village, Gornje Obrinje, at a bus stop there. It happened just

14 like that. A number of KLA people approached him in full view of the

15 number of people who took cover and they simply sprayed him with bullets.

16 Q. Thank you very much.

17 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we now have 6D1108, please.

18 JUDGE BONOMY: Just before you move, were you familiar with

19 Gornje Obrinje?

20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] For the most part I was familiar

21 with all the villages in Glogovac municipality. I do have to point out

22 this, not only was I a native of the area, I was an inspector fighting

23 white-collar crime and before I was ever appointed head I spent most of

24 my time working in that area. Therefore, I was personally acquainted

25 with quite many families and families and loyal citizens and so on and

Page 23719

1 some enemies too, needless to say.

2 JUDGE BONOMY: Sorry, Mr. Lukic, please continue.

3 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

4 Q. You see the document, don't you? Do you have it?

5 A. Yes, yes.

6 Q. Look at photographs 4, 5, and 6.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. What attack on the police is this about, in which attack were

9 these KLA members -- were these people involved?

10 A. Yes, I remember clearly because it was right after this tragic

11 incident that I arrived at the scene, and I was actually there and I

12 remained in the area for two days and two nights. That day, or rather,

13 the 10th of January -- excuse me, I'm sorry, the 20th of February, 1998,

14 the morning of the 20th of February, if I can be more specific than that

15 I would like to describe exactly what happened. There was a police

16 patrol that was patrolling the area. There was a roster and there was a

17 court summons to be served in Likosane. These men were ambushed and they

18 called for help. This was a Saturday or a Sunday -- I think Saturday

19 much rather, and there was a Lada Niva vehicle, police vehicle, that was

20 near Vasiljevo at the time. They were on their way to help their

21 colleagues out and they were ambushed near the Djelji neighbourhood.

22 Someone approached them from a distance of 3 metres and riddled them with

23 bullets, that simple. Inside the vehicle itself, the Lada Niva, they

24 were all killed within the minute as they say. Miroslav Vujkovic, this

25 is photograph number 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5. Miroslav Vujkovic, from Pancevo

Page 23720

1 this was a unit that had been seconded from Pancevo Miroslav Vujkovic --

2 Q. Just a minute, just a minute. Photograph number 5, please, just

3 for the sake of the screen we need page 4.

4 A. All right, I'm looking at the document I have in my binder, in my

5 binder, so I'm talking about Miroslav Vujkovic from Pancevo --

6 JUDGE BONOMY: [Previous translation continues] ... this was an

7 ambush and that there were a number killed.

8 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

9 Q. Let us look at page 5, paragraph 1, please.

10 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could you turn the next page, up at

11 the top, who is it?

12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Goran Radojcic. Since I took --

13 led them away from the field, that's when the open attack of the

14 terrorists began, an undisguised attack against everything, the police,

15 the army, whatever has -- bears the insignia of Serbia. Goran Radojcic

16 was killed from Pancevo, aged 20, in Gniva and Miroslav Vujkovic, only

17 thanks to God. Let us look Pavle Damjanovic and Matajic [phoen] were

18 killed at the same time and another two colleagues I can't find them here

19 without your assistance.

20 Q. We'll look later at other documents.

21 A. But let me just mention the two of them. Only thanks to God they

22 remained alive. Pavle Damjanovic was wounded and fell into the canal and

23 Matajic was left for dead by the Siptars. They even searched him, left

24 him for dead, took away his rifle, and left. I received the report by

25 radio, it was on a weekend. I came and with a group of policemen we came

Page 23721

1 as an emergency first aid. I pulled out these young boys from Gniva, and

2 while we were organizing themselves the terrorists led by Adem Jashari

3 opened fire from all directions and we had to call in reinforcement in

4 the form of special units, which arrived within a couple of hours by

5 nightfall in any case. They came to Likosane and in the skirmish with

6 terrorist gangs, two members of the special units were killed, Milan

7 Jovanovic, I'm reading from the binder, fourth picture down the page, and

8 Radoica Ivanovic, the sixth picture in 1108. I cannot see it on the

9 screen now.

10 Q. 6D13 -- that is 6D1038, page 9. You mentioned two men killed and

11 four wounded. We have a reference in P437. We will not open that one.

12 6D1114, please, fourth page, first paragraph.

13 Do you know this person, do you know the incident?

14 A. Before he died --

15 Q. What's his name?

16 A. Xhemal Krasniqi born in 1941 in Klina killed in Grobor [phoen]

17 village.

18 Q. Just one correction, we should be looking at the penultimate

19 paragraph, not first?

20 JUDGE BONOMY: Let us see the paragraph, further down the page.

21 MR. LUKIC: We need the first page, second-last paragraph,

22 please, of this document. Yes, that's it.

23 Q. [Interpretation] Continue, please, Mr. Damjanac. Continue

24 please.

25 A. Since I was called as part of that police patrol, I was there, I

Page 23722

1 was one of the first to arrive. It was just the beginning of these

2 terrorist attacks. I was not very young even then, but I had never seen

3 a body that badly butchered --

4 JUDGE BONOMY: Which year is this?

5 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

6 Q. Tell us the year and date.

7 A. It was the beginning of 1998, January 1998.

8 Q. The first --

9 JUDGE BONOMY: Not April?

10 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

11 Q. When was Xhemal Krasniqi killed?

12 A. I can't see the date of the murder, but it's --

13 Q. It's in line 2, that's when he was found.

14 A. I can't see it -- oh, yes, sorry, 27th April. I'm sorry, I can't

15 see very well. My glasses are not very good. I'm sorry, 27th April,

16 around 1100 hours.

17 Q. And how long had the body lain there?

18 A. For several days because it was an area populated solely by

19 Albanians between Trstenik and Grobar. A village road, the body was

20 thrown in a ditch, his body was pierced, he was -- his intestines were

21 out and being dragged by birds all over the road. It was a harrowing

22 sight.

23 Q. 6D1113. Ivan Bulatovic, was he an employee under you?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. What do you know about his killing?

Page 23723

1 A. Ivan Bulatovic was a police officer and his wife worked in the

2 same department of internal affairs as a hygiene medical officer. They

3 had three little children and their permanent residence was in Glogovac

4 itself. He had a daughter from his first marriage aged 17 --

5 Q. Let us concentrate on the way he died.

6 A. Well, I had to tell the reason why he was kidnapped. He had to

7 go to Pec because he wanted to attend the funeral of his elder daughter.

8 I remember that case very well because I was shaken, both as a

9 professional and a human being. You can see from this that he had three

10 children and his elder daughter was being buried on the territory of Pec.

11 He told me that he was going to Pec, and I warned him that terrorists

12 were holding the road from Pec to Pristina. It was very risky. He told

13 me that he was going to travel by train and there had been no incidents

14 on the railroad until then. To cut a long story short, he set out with

15 his wife and the smaller children.

16 In Glogovac itself for security reasons the security detail was

17 not Serb, it was illegal Albanian security. They ordered him out of the

18 coupe, they stripped him as they were nearing the first stop in Banjica,

19 his wife, children, and the other passengers watched him being beaten by

20 rifle-butts, and if you want I will later explain how this came about.

21 They brought him to Likovac to that prison, where they beat him and did

22 all sorts of vicious things to him and kept him in a kennel. Everybody

23 knows what a kennel is. He was chained like a dog there and they forced

24 him whenever passed by to bark, and he had to do that all the time until

25 the moment when together with all the other detainees who had been

Page 23724

1 kidnapped he was liquidated, and he is still on record as a missing

2 person.

3 Q. What about Tomislav Fatic, was he your employee --

4 JUDGE BONOMY: Before you move, who is your source of your

5 information about the mistreatment of Bulatovic at Likovac?

6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I will explain.

7 JUDGE BONOMY: Just tell me who it is, that's all.

8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] If you allow me, the same people

9 who were detained there. Ruzica Dobric is one of the women who was held

10 there from Djerdjevik [phoen] village. Shall I tell you the whole story?

11 JUDGE BONOMY: I just want to be clear, you said all the other

12 detainees were liquidated, but it appears that that's not correct. I'm

13 just trying to establish the facts. We deal in facts here, and we're

14 trying to be as precise as possible. Now, you're saying that survivors

15 of Lipovac are the source of your information; is that correct?

16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Only very old women from the

17 village. One single household among thousands of Siptars, they were very

18 old women and Albanian neighbours saved them because they were very nice

19 ladies. They gave a solemn oath called Besa in Albanian tradition that

20 they would save them and that's how they got out alive.

21 JUDGE BONOMY: Yeah. Thank you.

22 Mr. Lukic.

23 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation].

24 Q. I asked you about Tomislav Fatic, was he your employee and what

25 was his fate?

Page 23725

1 A. What page?

2 Q. We don't have him here.

3 A. Tomislav Fatic was another one of my employees. He was

4 liquidated too in May, it's somewhere in the documents the exact date, I

5 can't see it here, I don't want to guess, but it was a Sunday.

6 Q. May, which year?

7 A. May 1998, sorry. It was May 1998, it was a Sunday as I said, and

8 I got a phone call from the station about the terrorist attack against

9 the deputy commander Nebojsa Trajkovic. They told me that assistance was

10 on the way, but in the meantime Tomislav Fatic had succumbed --

11 Q. What happened after that, was a building, installation, attacked?

12 A. They shelled and they tried to attack the police station as well,

13 and when the police assistance detail arrived, they pulled out towards

14 Vasiljevo. Vasiljevo is up the hills from the site of the attack where

15 the Siptar terrorist forces had a stronghold.

16 Q. 6D614, page 45, please. 6D614. It's a long one. We need page

17 45, numbers 25 and 26. And I will question you about this. Did you ever

18 find bodies you were unable to identify?

19 A. Yes, in this particular case. It was quite obvious that the

20 terrorist gangs were killing people not only from Glogovac but also those

21 kidnapped and brought to that area from other localities. They killed

22 them on public roads and crossroads to intimidate the other residents,

23 and they inflicted the most horrific death they could.

24 Q. Which date was it?

25 A. 30th September 1998 in Glogovac village where the body was found,

Page 23726

1 and then it was sent to the Institute of Forensic Medicine in Pristina

2 for a post mortem. The identity was not established.

3 Q. Same document, page 626. We need item 265.

4 A. I can't find it.

5 Q. 6D614, page 626, we need item 265. Do you remember this attack?

6 A. I'm sorry, I didn't find it.

7 Q. It's on the screen now. Try to read it from the screen, item

8 265.

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. What is the time-frame, what is the incident?

11 A. It's the 17th October 1998. I have to give you a longer

12 explanation. It's the period after the liberation of Malisevo from the

13 terrorists who had held it since spring that year. In that period a

14 point was set up near Orlate staffed by a reserve policeman because it

15 was a large area, and you couldn't cover it just with active-duty police.

16 There were not enough policemen. So the men there were all reserve

17 policemen who had not been properly trained, not qualified for this kind

18 of defence.

19 Q. Did there occur an attack, what happened?

20 A. The same evening a group of terrorists attacked them, barged into

21 the room, and simply sprayed them with bullets. Three young men survived

22 and the others were killed. There was an on-site investigation by the

23 investigative judge of the district court in Pristina, it was all

24 documented, but that's not the only case of this kind.

25 Q. Thank you. We move on. 6D586 in the English 13 -- page 13, item

Page 23727

1 17; in the B/C/S page 17, item 17. Can you tell us during what period of

2 time this was and what this was about?

3 A. Please repeat your question.

4 Q. You have the document before you?

5 A. Very well. What is the number?

6 Q. We need page 17 in the B/C/S and the 13th page in the English

7 since I saw -- I found this in English as well. Have a look at item 17.

8 A. Very well.

9 Q. What time-period is this?

10 A. On the 11th of November, 1998, something that happened seldom

11 until that time in Kosovo and Metohija took place. There was an attack

12 with all sorts of infantry weapons on the police station in Glogovac.

13 They also attacked the restaurant for the employees and their quarters.

14 I'll try to be specific. The attack took place in the afternoon as an

15 act of revenge on the part of the Siptar terrorists concerning something

16 that took place in the morning on the 11th. There was an attack along

17 the road between Pristina and Pec at Negrovac right across from the house

18 of Jakup Krasniqi, who was then the spokesperson of the KLA and commander

19 of the Malisevo region of the KLA. During the attack an active terrorist

20 well-known among the Siptars was killed. He came there as a trained

21 terrorist from Switzerland. His name is in the documents. His

22 identification was ascertained, although unfortunately I cannot recall

23 his name right now. In any case it can be found out easily. In the

24 afternoon we returned from the field around 3.00. People unpacked and

25 went to have lunch. Between 30 and 50 terrorists opened fire from all

Page 23728

1 directions from hand-held launchers, Zoljas, Osas, the Chinese automatic

2 rifles and machine-guns, several hand-grenades were thrown, on which

3 occasion Slavko Amidzic as well as Srdjan Stefanovic were killed. Light

4 injuries were sustained by the employees of the PTT office in Glogovac.

5 Q. What other buildings were attacked apart from the OUP building in

6 Glogovac?

7 A. Nearby there was the post office and the train station. It was

8 all riddled with bullets. In the PTT office the people who were securing

9 the building were wounded, the Krstic brothers, and Xhafer Qorri's house

10 was sprayed with bullets. Their intent was to kill his family. We

11 carried out some checks and confirmed that the terrorist group came from

12 Vasiljevo village.

13 Q. What is the ethnic background of Xhafer Qorri?

14 A. I did not specify the background of each and every policeman

15 since I believe Their Honours can recognise by names who is who by now.

16 He's been Albanian, he was killed subsequently, and the other two names I

17 mentioned were Serbs, reserve policemen with the police station in

18 Glogovac. They were sent there. Slavko Amidzic is a local of Glogovac

19 and his mother --

20 Q. Let's go to 6D1038 page 12, please. A few days after this attack

21 what is the time and who was attacked?

22 A. If I may have a moment, please.

23 Q. Page 12, you have pages 1 and 12 in your binder. It's on the

24 screen. We need the first item of the page; however, the page is wrong.

25 This is page 11. We need page 12, the first paragraph.

Page 23729

1 Can you see it?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Do you know of this incident and when did it occur?

4 A. The 17th of November, 1998, around 11.20 in the village of

5 Trstenik, Glogovac municipality, Dejan Krstic was wounded. We were

6 trying to send patrols to that road, the so-called reinforced patrols.

7 Since that was a particularly sensitive area around Trstenik and the

8 entire route between Glogovac and Srbica.

9 Q. Is this during the time when the KVM was there?

10 A. Yes, unfortunately. After this incident I have to say a

11 representative of the verification mission came, I think he was a German,

12 perhaps his first name may have been Gerhard, and he told me that from

13 now on we should particularly stay away from that road because in

14 Ljustaku [phoen] the Drenica area commander issued a threat. He said

15 that irrespective of any circumstances any police force's movement along

16 that road will be considered a hostile act and they will act to destroy

17 the personnel.

18 Q. We'll get to that later in documents.

19 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have 6D614, page 640,

20 item 331.

21 Q. Have you found it?

22 A. You mean 6D614?

23 Q. Yes, page 640, item 331, it's on the screen, perhaps it's easier

24 for you to see there. Item 331. What time-period and please explain.

25 A. It was the 11th of December, 1998. An attack was carried out on

Page 23730

1 the OSCE building in front of the railroad crossing in Glogovac by

2 terrorist forces. Xhafer Qorri, assistant commander of the police

3 station in Glogovac was killed alongside two members who were Albanians

4 just like Xhafer Qorri. I should mention that --

5 JUDGE BONOMY: Is that the same person as you've mentioned

6 earlier?

7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Xhafer Qorri, yes --

8 JUDGE BONOMY: The spelling is -- perhaps it's been altered

9 earlier but in case there's a difference we should note it's the same

10 person.

11 Please continue.

12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Xhafer Qorri was an active-duty

13 policeman, a diligent worker, he was killed on that occasion on the

14 premises of the OSCE [as interpreted] and that was their central location

15 for the entire Glogovac municipality. It was also important for

16 electricity supply. Together --

17 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction: The witness

18 mentioned EPS which is not the OSCE, it is the electrical utility company

19 of Serbia, the acronyms are similar.

20 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation].

21 Q. We see in the transcript the OSCE. Can you tell us what EPS is?

22 A. As I said, it is a public company, a state-owned company, the

23 expansion is the electrical utility company of Serbia, their outpost in

24 Glogovac.

25 Q. In addition to the policeman who else was killed --

Page 23731

1 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, before you do, should we forgot about the


3 MR. LUKIC: Yes, Your Honour.

4 JUDGE BONOMY: That's simply a mistake.

5 MR. LUKIC: Yes.

6 JUDGE BONOMY: Okay, thank you.

7 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

8 Q. Apart from the policeman, who else was killed?

9 A. The electricians of the EPS, two Albanians. To clarify, they

10 were loyal citizens of the state of Serbia, good employees, and thanks to

11 them at the OUP in Glogovac we had electricity. They were also

12 maintaining our equipment, radio devices, our heating, and they were also

13 providing the same services to the citizens of Glogovac. Terrorists

14 didn't like that, since they wanted all supply to be cut off in order to

15 make life and work in Glogovac municipalities as difficult as possible.

16 Q. Thank you. Let us please go to 6D202, page 3, paragraph 3 or

17 item 3, if you will.

18 What time-period is this about and are you familiar with this?

19 You have it on the screen as well, the third paragraph.

20 A. You can't see a date, although it was the fall of 1998. We don't

21 have an exact date when Zvonko Bojanic was killed, if I'm reading this

22 correctly. Yes.

23 Q. Before you continue could we please have 6D586 instead, the

24 English version page 13, item 18; in the B/C/S it is page 17, item 18.

25 It is 6D586. We should have some dates there.

Page 23732

1 A. Yes, very well. This is more detailed. If I may --

2 Q. Go ahead.

3 A. I knew the late Zvonko Bojanic and I am familiar with this

4 incident. I'll try to be as brief as possible. He was killed on the

5 18th of December, 1998, in a place called Careva Cesma, this is in

6 Vasiljevo as well as Gornja Koretica. In Vasiljevo a terrorist group was

7 stationed. They simply kidnapped Zvonko Bojanic. They took him from his

8 house in Velika Slatina where he had resided. He also used to work there

9 transporting raw materials. He was the only Serb who remained in the

10 area of Slatina. He used to be the vice-president of Kosovo Polje

11 municipality.

12 Q. Item 19 of the same document, when was that and do you remember

13 the incident?

14 A. Yes, unfortunately I do. I am very familiar with it since I was

15 the first to come across the corpse. This person was later identified as

16 Branislav Skulic from Belgrade rather than Sekulic as it reads here. It

17 happened in the morning on the 13th of January, 1999, when I left

18 Pristina for Glogovac in a vehicle. I came across a body on the road

19 close to Carevo Cesma and Gornja Koretica, which is Vasiljevo. He was

20 killed, thrown on to the Tarmac, and then a truck simply went over his

21 head. The only thing that was left was a mash. The brains were

22 scattered all over. While I was standing there with my vehicle, I tried

23 to ask for assistance by radio communication. I asked for an on-site

24 team -- an investigation team to be assembled. In the meantime an ICRC

25 jeep came followed by a jeep of the KVM. I asked them -- I begged them

Page 23733

1 to stop to see what sort of things were being done. They simply ignored

2 me. They didn't want to slow down, but rather simply circumvented me.

3 They went off the road to go around me and moved ahead to Pristina. What

4 was the price of a Serbian life in Kosovo I wonder?

5 Q. By way of reference I wanted to say that the same he was not is

6 mentioned in 6D614, page 48, item 43.

7 Mr. Damjanac, it is time for a break.

8 JUDGE BONOMY: Again, Mr. Damjanac, we need to break at this

9 stage for half an hour. Could you please leave the courtroom with the

10 usher.

11 [The witness stands down]

12 JUDGE BONOMY: And we shall resume at ten minutes to 1.00.

13 --- Recess taken at 12.20 p.m.

14 --- On resuming at 12.50 p.m.

15 [The witness takes the stand]

16 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic.

17 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

18 Q. Can we proceed, sir?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. 6D614, page 51, please, or if you find that too difficult it is

21 about to show up on our screens. We need item 58, page 51, item 58.

22 Again, when was this, what's it about, do you remember this?

23 A. Can you just repeat the reference, please?

24 Q. Page 51 in 6D614. It's on our screens, item 58, please.

25 MR. LUKIC: In English it's page 30, it should be page 51.

Page 23734

1 Q. [Interpretation] You can go ahead with your answer, sir.

2 A. So the date is the 20th of January, 1999. This was on the

3 Pristina-Pec main road near the village of Orlate, Glogovac municipality.

4 A body was discovered belonging to Elshani Ahmet born in 1965 in the

5 village of Banjica Glogovac municipality.

6 Q. Ethnicity?

7 A. Albanian from a large family, Elshani a brotherhood as they're

8 referred to. He was one of the police commanders in Kosovo too, Elshani,

9 we know that don't we? He was killed. They were all natives of Banjica

10 just outside he was killed. His body was ditched somewhere along the

11 Pristina-Pec main road at a turn-off towards the village of Orlate. If

12 you look at the document you can see that representatives of the OSCE

13 mission were there. The body was taken to the forensic institute in

14 Pristina for a post mortem.

15 Q. All right. 6D110, please, page 27. Third photograph or third

16 image.

17 A. Indeed. This is Milorad Mitic, late Milorad Mitic, one of my

18 police officers. He was killed on the 27th of February in Krivovo. He

19 was killed and we know this by the terror group from Vasiljevo led by

20 Betush Rexhepi. If I may, Betush Rexhepi had arrived from Switzerland as

21 a fully trained terrorist. He travelled through Albania and arrived in

22 Kosovo with another 30 fully trained terrorists. They made up an

23 independent group that was part of one of the battalions from

24 Fehmi Lladrovci's brigade and they were involved in liquidating quite a

25 number of Serbs on the ground.

Page 23735

1 JUDGE BONOMY: The number, Mr. Lukic, is not correct.

2 MR. LUKIC: It's 6D1110.

3 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.

4 MR. LUKIC: That's correct. We have the page now.

5 Q. [Interpretation] Finish, please. Sir, Mr. Damjanac, aside from

6 Milorad Mitic who was killed were any other police officers seriously

7 injured?

8 A. Yes, the driver, Ljubomir Denic. They were on their way to get

9 some supplies, they were on their way to Pristina. It was along that

10 road that Rexhep set up an ambush. There is a cliff there. They were in

11 a vehicle that was secured on both sides; however, the roof was not

12 bullet proof and the terrorists were aware of that. It was the roof of

13 that vehicle that they targeted. They fired at the roof and killed

14 Milorad Mitic while Ljubisa Denic was seriously wounded or put out of

15 action as they say.

16 Q. All right. The reference for the person who was killed and the

17 person who was wounded, it's P1106, we'll not be opening the document

18 now.

19 Can we now please go to 6D614 and the page is 634. You can wait

20 for it to turn up on the screen if you have trouble finding the document.

21 We need item 303. Meanwhile let me ask you this: So far we've mostly

22 been discussing incidents in which people were killed. Were there also

23 terrorist attacks that took place leaving wounded but not killing anyone?

24 And if you look at this item which attack was this that is described

25 here?

Page 23736

1 A. If we're only talking about this item, again this is something

2 about Xhafer Qorri, is that the one you're referring to, 303, right?

3 Q. Yes, that's right.

4 A. This was not the only such incident. This was an attempt, as I

5 said before there was several attempts on Xhafer Qorri's life because he

6 continued to work as an officer of the Glogovac OUP. However, all the

7 attempts failed and the same applies to this one. I'm looking at it. I

8 need to remind myself, since as I said there was several attempts. They

9 shelled his home in which he resided with his family. I have to point

10 out that Xhafer Qorri, who was an ethnic Albanian, was married to a Serb

11 lady, a native of Prijepolje as far as I know. They had three children,

12 two daughters and a son. They tried everything they could to get him out

13 of the way, to kill him. If you look at the document you see that they

14 used all sorts of weapons to target his family home, and this is a

15 single-storey home, a simple, small home, as was common among the poor of

16 Kosovo and Metohija and throughout the rest of Serbia I should say, the

17 intention being to wipe out his entire family.

18 Q. Thank you. Unrelated to this document let me ask you this: Did

19 you record in the diary that you were keeping the deaths of police

20 officers who were members of the PJP?

21 A. Aside from police officers from the original unit, there were a

22 number of police officers who had come from outside. Some were recorded.

23 Unfortunately, some were not. Those who had been seconded by other units

24 and who were killed around the Glogovac area or along the fringe of the

25 Glogovac area; in some cases they belonged to other police centres and to

Page 23737

1 other SUPs.

2 Q. Were there any incidents involving looting by the terrorists,

3 robbery?

4 A. I have to, as they say, start from the beginning. From the

5 beginning of 1998 this was something that occurred on a daily basis,

6 cases of looting, robbery, by Albanians, since they made up most of the

7 population, and state-owned companies and other state bodies. For

8 example, the Feronikel company. They came there, they were armed, they

9 made threats, and they seized some construction equipment, machinery,

10 some lorries that they used to build trenches, bunkers, and so on and so

11 forth. Near Drenica, in the village of Krivovo, and I can be more

12 specific than that if you like in terms of where exactly this village is,

13 they came to a farm, seized all the livestock, the cattle, they seized a

14 weapon that one of the guards was using who was providing security

15 there -- and it wasn't just that. They went to the Gradin [phoen]

16 construction company, they went to construction site in Glogovac, and

17 they seized all the construction machinery they needed. They robbed the

18 guards guarding the construction site, they took away all their weapons

19 and other equipment. There were many cases such as this one. Right now

20 I'm relying on my memory, but it's all recorded in the diary of events

21 starting with 1997 and all the way up to the very end. Looting, robbery,

22 items and goods being seized, including murder, this was part of daily

23 life there.

24 Q. For the sake of the transcript at 68, line 19, the witness said

25 "Albanians" -- [Previous translation continues] ...

Page 23738

1 Sir, can you tell us if the KLA were in control of any territory

2 in Glogovac municipality in 1998?

3 A. Unfortunately, and because of the situation that prevailed at the

4 time, the KLA between March 1998 and July that same year were holding,

5 depending on how the situation developed, over 90 per cent of Glogovac

6 territory. This was particularly clear after the liquidation of

7 Adem Jashari on the 5th of March, 2008 [as interpreted], when the

8 terrorist clashes in the area escalated. They took virtually all the

9 roads starting with the Srbica-Glogovac main road and then down behind

10 Glogovac what we refer to as Gornje Drenica, Lipljan municipality,

11 Banjica, all the way up to Crnoljevo, mount Crnoljevo. And this road

12 that I mentioned, the Lipljan-Prizren road. And over here they were

13 occasionally in control of the Pristina-Pec main road, they carried out

14 daily acts of sabotage at locations of their choice, making the roads

15 impossible to travel. They would attack police officers. They were

16 killing citizens and attacking them. If you look at the diary you can

17 see all this happening and being recorded, and then deeper into the area

18 they had started fortifying, building trenches, connecting trenches.

19 They forced the locals to give them a hand with this, to dig trenches for

20 them. They made special fortifications. They established check-points

21 along virtually all of the main roads through the area. Therefore, at

22 the time and because we were too few, they were the masters in Glogovac

23 municipality.

24 Q. How many police officers did you have in the Glogovac OUP?

25 A. Unfortunately between 25 and 30 was all I had. Roughly speaking

Page 23739

1 that was the number of uniformed men in the Glogovac OUP. As our people

2 say there were precious few of us.

3 Q. Were the roads eventually cleared?

4 A. People were being killed. There were incidents involving

5 looting, robbery, attacks on state institutions, daily attacks on

6 whatever stood for Serbia's state; and what this led to in July

7 eventually was the launching of an anti-terrorist action, a joint action

8 by the army and the police. And for the first time between mid-July and

9 September all the roads were now cleared and all the strongholds of the

10 Siptar terrorists were crushed all throughout Drenica's territory. And

11 the area was finally liberated.

12 I would also like to say that eventually peace was restored among

13 the best part of the Albanian population as well. One could already feel

14 friendlier relations begin to arise between that portion of the Albanian

15 population and us, the police. They started returning weapons of their

16 own free will that they had been given by the KLA.

17 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic, at line -- page 69, line 23, is that an

18 accurate reference, the reference to mount Crnoljevo?

19 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

20 Q. Did you say mount Crnoljevo?

21 A. Yes, I said that, up until Drenica, mount Crnoljevo, because if

22 you allow me the Drenica area is surrounded by Crnoljevo mountains on

23 that side, that is, it has Crnoljevo mountains on that edge; and then on

24 the other side there goes the Vranes mountain all the way up to the

25 Kolasin Ibarski, Cicavica is on the other side towards Kosovo and that

Page 23740

1 sub-Metohija area. Drenica separates Kosovo and Metohija practically,

2 that's why they represent two entities not one as Albanian extremists

3 would have it, when they say that it's one single territory. Even

4 Lapusnik, as you see from this documentation, was treated in a peculiar

5 way in this period. It held the prison and all the rest. It -- Drenica,

6 that is, was a special part just as Lapusnik --

7 JUDGE BONOMY: You've answered my question long ago. I really

8 have Mr. Lukic to make best use of his time. I'm sorry, I won't

9 interrupt again because clearly this is not going to be of any

10 assistance.

11 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

12 Q. Did there come a time after the terrorist, that is, the

13 anti-terrorist operations when the KLA again took control of the

14 territory and the roads?

15 A. Unfortunately, after all the actions taken by the army and the

16 police and after all the sacrifices made when peace was already on the

17 horizon and when it looked like the Albanian terrorists would be forever

18 gone from that area, the Milosevic-Holbrooke Agreement was signed, was

19 made, and after the 16th of October the OSCE mission numbering 20.000

20 came into our country, our homeland, and they covered with their

21 intelligence and all the other capacities that hold territory, including

22 Drenica, Srbica, et cetera, and that was a black day for the

23 autochthonous people.

24 JUDGE BONOMY: I will ask you, Mr. Lukic, rather than me to try

25 to clarify this, whether the witness means 20.000. They would outnumber

Page 23741

1 the Serb forces in that case.

2 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

3 Q. We have 20.000 on record. What did you mean? Did you mean to

4 say 20 or 2.000 verifiers?

5 A. 2.000 they were, but I count all their personnel -- did I say

6 20.000? I mean to say 2.000, sorry, 2.000 verifiers.

7 Q. Thank you. Let's move on. Did the KLA again take control of the

8 territory, you didn't answer, just yes or no?

9 A. Yes, yes, because the agreement itself envisaged that all Serb

10 forces including the police and the army should go back to their

11 barracks, that is, their peacetime location and it was done. All our

12 forces were withdrawn and the empty space was again taken by terrorist

13 forces and they were even more aggressive than before. They took hold of

14 that territory, they forbade the international community from sending

15 their police patrol in that area, and my police force in Glogovac

16 municipality had a circle of 100 metres in diameter to move in.

17 Q. Did you have any knowledge of any contacts between the OSCE

18 mission with the terrorists; if you do have such knowledge, explain how.

19 A. Well, the agreement gave the mission the possibility to supervise

20 and control the implementation of the agreement, and our chief had to

21 communicate with the OSCE verifiers so that I had daily visits from

22 representatives of international community -- organizations, be it the

23 OSCE or the ICRC. And whenever I was able, I tried to be as helpful as I

24 could.

25 Q. We heard a lot of evidence about that. There were many witnesses

Page 23742

1 before you. I'm just asking you: Do you have any knowledge of any

2 contacts between the OSCE mission and the KLA?

3 A. I was coming to that. I'm sorry for this long introduction. I

4 had visits from OSCE verifiers who were located very near my own police

5 building and told me that they were in direct communication with

6 Sami Lushtaku, the commander of the Drenica zone and other local

7 commanders. And for that reason it was their recommendation, they didn't

8 want to use the term warning, to refrain from going near certain roads

9 and certain routes. If you want me, can I go on? This German, Gerhard,

10 I'm sorry I can't remember his last name, he's an old hand of the

11 intelligence, he even invited me to their office to see all the equipment

12 and everything they had. I accepted the invitation and noticed that

13 their security detail consists entirely of Albanians, extremist

14 Albanians, not to say KLA. I pointed that out to him even.

15 Q. Let us move on to the Feronikel factory. Did such a factory

16 operate in that area?

17 A. The Feronikel was one of the major projects of the former SFRY.

18 Q. Just answer, was it operative in Glogovac?

19 A. It was on constant strike from November 1997 until the month of

20 May 1998 when we started using it to accommodate some of the forces.

21 Q. What was the ethnicity of the personnel of this factory?

22 A. 90 per cent Albanian, Siptars, that is, 80 per cent. And in the

23 last few years about 20 per cent were Serbs who were sent from Kosovo

24 Polje, Obilic, and other places, experts mostly.

25 Q. When was the furnace closed down in this factory?

Page 23743

1 A. Well, it never worked as of November 1997 and even the SUP came

2 to investigate why their furnaces were not working, but it was because of

3 the political developments at that time. Let me digress a little. There

4 was a political organization in that factory Bali Kamptari [phoen], a

5 former Albanian collaborationist force from World War II in Kosovo.

6 Q. Did it suffer from air-strikes?

7 A. It was repeatedly, three times only in April and once in May.

8 Q. Did you make -- did you interrogate suspects in terrorist cases

9 and where?

10 A. All the questionings were done in one location, the official

11 premises of the department of internal affairs, that is, the police

12 station in Glogovac, nowhere else.

13 Q. I have to ask you to cross-check other information. Did you or

14 any other employees of your OUP question anyone on the premises of the

15 Feronikel factory?

16 A. The people in that factory, on the premises of that factory, had

17 their own supervisory bodies and we had different jobs. We were in

18 charge of regular police work and their job was to provide security for

19 certain installations, buildings, and roads. So we did not coordinate

20 mutually, and we did not use the premises of Feronikel for any official

21 procedures.

22 Q. Who was located in that factory and when?

23 A. As I said, I had only 25 to 30 policemen in an ethnically pure

24 and hostile environment when the conflict started and it was impossible

25 to maintain communication in this institution, as we call it, of

Page 23744

1 particular interest. And there occurred a moment when it became

2 necessary to ensure assistance from Serbia proper to prevent destruction

3 of socially owned and private property.

4 Q. Who was placed there?

5 A. Police from Serbia proper.

6 Q. Did Albanians ever come to OUP Glogovac? Did they contact with

7 you and how?

8 A. Albanians contacted OUP Glogovac on a daily basis, and they still

9 considered it as their own police station regardless of all the prejudice

10 that began to take hold, and that was true in 1997 and part of 1998.

11 However, with the escalation of terrorism and as they began to fear more

12 and more for their own safety and that of their families, there came a

13 time when they asked to be unable to be as discreet as possible whenever

14 they contact us and to contact us outside our premises and they always

15 wanted to meet with people they knew from before without forth modesty

16 since I was a native of Drenica a large number of them asked to talk to

17 me personally to discuss issues of security, safety, and the newly arisen

18 situation. All the other work, the normal police work, was done on the

19 premises in accordance with the Law on Criminal Procedure.

20 Q. Thank you. We know that sometimes the perpetrator of a crime is

21 unidentified, but it is suspected that it was committed by terrorists.

22 On what grounds did you believe sometimes that terrorists were

23 responsible for a killing without having a specific suspect?

24 A. That was an easy conclusion to come to. I never found a body

25 killed in the usual way by one bullet, with one stab wound, et cetera.

Page 23745

1 The bodies were butchered most of the time, literally butchered, and all

2 the evidence, the cartridges we found, the bullets, et cetera indicated

3 that the weapons used were Chinese made, unlike any in the possession of

4 the police and the army of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. So it was

5 an easy conclusion.

6 Q. Were there any Serbs living in that area?

7 A. The territory of Glogovac -- well, this home place of mine that

8 was taken away from me had 101 Serb houses before the Second World War.

9 There were 27 heads of households in total, patriarchs.

10 Q. Just tell me, at that time were there any Serbs living there?

11 A. Not a single Serb as of 1965 except for one family living close

12 to the railway station. Not a single Serb lived in the Drenica or the

13 Srbica municipality.

14 Q. OUP Glogovac belonged to which unit of the Serbian MUP?

15 A. The SUP of Pristina, and it's practically an organizational unit

16 of the Pristina SUP.

17 JUDGE BONOMY: The policemen who worked in your office, did they

18 not live in the area?

19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, they did not.

20 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you. That's all I want to know. Thank you.

21 Mr. Lukic.

22 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

23 Q. I think we need to clarify this. The policemen that worked with

24 you, where did they work?

25 A. There were no conditions in place for any Serbian policemen to

Page 23746

1 live in Glogovac, say for late Ivan Bulajic, he did live in Glogovac with

2 his family. The rest commuted from Pristina, Kosovo Polje, and

3 elsewhere. We had accommodation facilities for policemen and they would

4 be stationed in Glogovac for seven days at a time. Imagine a man, a

5 policeman, who does not leave his immediate work-place for seven days and

6 then we would have another shift come in.

7 Q. Thank you. What was the focus in terms of tasks of the uniformed

8 police in Glogovac?

9 A. The same as with the rest of the Ministry of the Interior. We

10 focused on suppressing crime when it comes to traffic, misdemeanour, and

11 ensuring proper functioning of work and life in the area. Those were our

12 focal tasks and you can find those in any police manual as well as the

13 Law on Internal Affairs as well as the Law on Criminal Procedure.

14 Q. Who was your immediate superior?

15 A. My immediate superior while I was there was Bosko Petric. When

16 he was absent, his deputy would be there, Bozidar Filic.

17 Q. Where did they work?

18 A. They worked and stayed in Pristina.

19 Q. What is the name of that organizational unit of the MUP?

20 A. It is the SUP of Pristina, which comprised the OUP in Lipljan,

21 Glogovac, Podujevo, and Obilic.

22 Q. Thank you. Certain sections within the OUP of Glogovac, did they

23 communicate directly with certain organizational units of the SUP of

24 Pristina?

25 A. As the head I was of course heading something, and that something

Page 23747

1 was the Glogovac OUP which inter alia had to take care of the functioning

2 of the people there. All organizational units within the OUP were linked

3 to the central point in Pristina, that is to say the uniformed part of

4 the police. If there is a need to according to their professional lines

5 of work, they were linked to the uniformed police of the Pristina SUP

6 administrative department were linked to the administrative department of

7 the SUP in Pristina. Apart from issuing IDs we also issued travel

8 documents and driver's licences, and travel documents could only be

9 issued with the approval of Pristina. We would issue them; however, they

10 would be produced in Pristina itself.

11 If I may continue, concerning crime in the Glogovac OUP we did

12 not have crime technicians. So we would have to ask for personnel from

13 the Pristina SUP to carry out any investigations of that sort.

14 Q. What about work orders, did you receive those from the Pristina

15 SUP?

16 A. As any organizational unit including the OUPs, we were autonomous

17 in a part of our activities. However, when it comes to certain things

18 such as administration and so on, we needed to cooperate to receive

19 orders, for example, from the central point of administration when it

20 comes to, say, processing of travel documents, IDs, et cetera.

21 Concerning the crime police, certain orders were received from Pristina

22 as well, especially so when we talk about the police and the engagement

23 of the PJP.

24 Q. Did you report to the Pristina SUP? Were you sending reports?

25 Were you sending reports to the Pristina SUP?

Page 23748

1 A. Daily. I would inform them of all important issues. I would

2 inform my superiors, to be more precise.

3 Q. Thank you. Did you ever indirectly inform the MUP staff in

4 Pristina?

5 A. Prior to answering that, I'll try to be precise in clarifying.

6 According to the line of reporting, we reported to the SUP head and

7 deputy head and we also communicated mutually between the OUPs. I was

8 not competent and there was no need for me to communicate with the staff.

9 Therefore, there was no need for me to inform them.

10 Q. Thank you. In terms of time-periods, can you tell us how you

11 reported to the SUP in Pristina, that is to say before the air-strikes

12 and afterwards?

13 A. Up until the moment of the NATO aggression, our communication was

14 regular and was adjusted to the technical conditions that were in place.

15 We used telephone lines, special telephone lines, the so-called specials,

16 dispatches, and everything that makes part and parcel of regular

17 communication in all SUPs in Kosovo and Metohija as well as in Serbia and

18 elsewhere. However, after the NATO aggression commenced and the repeater

19 stations were destroyed as well as due to the threats of being bombed and

20 they threatened to use any other means to respond to any kind of

21 electronic communication, we lacked any ability to communicate in that

22 way, excluding the only one that was viable at the time which was

23 couriers. You simply send a person, a member of the service, who sits in

24 a car, goes to Pristina, reports there, and goes back. That's it. I

25 hope I was clear enough. I tried to put it in as simple terms as

Page 23749

1 possible in order to try to paint the -- what the situation was like.

2 Q. Let us please go to 6D614 in e-court, page 6, item 7. We have it

3 here. If you found out that the perpetrators of a crime were policemen,

4 what would you do?

5 A. The Glogovac OUP acted professionally irrespective of the

6 conditions that we lived under. The Law on Criminal Procedure and other

7 regulation prescribing our work were put into force strictly. It didn't

8 matter who the person in question was. We never allowed anyone to act

9 illegally and to undermine the authority of the service. Should it be

10 established that a police member, since that was our competence,

11 committed any misdemeanour or a crime, measures were taken immediately.

12 In the example you asked me about, it had to do with a reserve group of

13 the secretariat of internal affairs in Pristina, they were deployed to

14 our field, they were called arsonists. A criminal report was submitted

15 against them. We also have the file number here beginning with KU. I

16 believe the -- that case was processed. They were prosecuted as part of

17 a report and charged with setting fire to eight family houses in the

18 village of Orlate whose owners were unknown.

19 Q. Although it says that the owners were unknown, is it known from

20 what ethnic group they came?

21 A. They were all Albanian since in that village there were only

22 Albanians. There was no Serbs there and no other ethnic groups. In the

23 entire area there is but a few people who are not Albanian, there are no

24 ethnic minorities there.

25 Q. While you headed the Glogovac OUP, and that was until the 1st of

Page 23750

1 May, 1999, were there any mass departures of civilians from the area of

2 your municipality?

3 A. I can state with full responsibility that there was no such a

4 thing and people didn't even think about it. I justified that by stating

5 a mere fact, that our police station is located in the settlement itself,

6 surrounded by houses of Albanians. Our closest neighbours 2 metres from

7 the entrance to the building were Albanians. They were our safety, we

8 shared the same fate, we cooperated in good and bad. In peacetime they

9 were good for cooperation. We used their wells to get water from since

10 there was no pipeline in the area, perhaps you don't know that. There

11 was no other water say for the water from one of the wells of the

12 Albanian houses there. When the NATO strikes began, we agreed with them

13 that if we were able to live together until that moment that we can

14 continue living together. Throughout my service in Glogovac the

15 situation was as such.

16 Q. Thank you. We have to stop working for today, and we'll see you

17 back tomorrow.

18 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you, Mr. Lukic.

19 Mr. Damjanac, that brings our sitting for today to an end. We

20 shall resume at 9.00 tomorrow morning. Until then it is vital that you

21 have no communication with anyone about the evidence in this case, and

22 that means any aspect of the evidence in this case. You must refrain

23 from any discussion of any aspect of this case at all between now and

24 your return here, and we'll see you again at 9.00 tomorrow morning.

25 Could you now please leave the courtroom with the usher.

Page 23751

1 [The witness stands down]

2 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.46 p.m.,

3 to be reconvened on Thursday, the 6th day of

4 March, 2008, at 9.00 a.m.