Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 75

 1                           Thursday, 6 October 2011

 2                           [Status Conference]

 3                           [Open session]

 4                           [The accused entered court]

 5                           --- Upon commencing at 3.32 p.m.

 6             JUDGE ORIE:  Good afternoon to everyone.

 7             Madam Registrar, would you please call the case.

 8             THE REGISTRAR:  Good afternoon, Your Honours.  This is the case

 9     number IT-09-92-PT, the Prosecutor versus Ratko Mladic.

10             JUDGE ORIE:  Thank you -- thank you, Madam Registrar.

11             MR. GROOME:  Good afternoon, Your Honours.  I am Dermot Groome,

12     I'm with Peter McCloskey, Roeland Bos, and we are assisted today by

13     Ms. Janet Stewart.

14             JUDGE ORIE:  Thank you, Mr. Groome.

15             For the Defence.

16             MR. LUKIC:  Good afternoon, Your Honour.  Branko Lukic and

17     Mr. Milos Saljic for the Defence.

18             JUDGE ORIE:  Thank you, Mr. Lukic.  And I see that Mr. Mladic is

19     present as well.

20             This is the second Status Conference in this case.  As with the

21     first Status Conference, I inform the parties that, although I am alone

22     here, that any guidance or any decisions that will be announced have been

23     deliberated and adopted by the Chamber as a whole.

24             The purpose of this Status Conference is to monitor the progress

25     made with regard to the pre-trial work and the preparation for trial.  On

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 1     the 19th of September, 2011, the Prosecution filed a report on the

 2     pre-trial work it had carried out, including the disclosure and

 3     discussions on agreed facts.  The Chamber grants the Prosecution's

 4     request for an extension of the word limit for this filing.  On the 21st

 5     of September, the Prosecution enquired by e-mail whether it would be

 6     required to file an additional report on the 26th of September, 2011, one

 7     week prior to the 65 ter meeting.

 8             And for those who are not very familiar with the numbers of the

 9     rules, 65 ter meeting is a working meeting where counsel, Defence

10     counsel, counsel for the Prosecution, meet either with the Senior Legal

11     Officer or with the pre-trial Judge.

12             The Chamber then responded, also by e-mail, that it would not be

13     necessary to file an additional report but that the Defence could add

14     information with regard to the proposed agreed facts if it wished to do

15     so and that the Chamber anyway expected an update from the parties at the

16     next 65 ter meeting.  This meeting was held earlier this week on the 3rd

17     of October.

18             The Chamber finds that the information provided by the

19     Prosecution in its report of the 19th of September 2011 is of great

20     assistance for its own and the parties' trial preparations.  The Chamber

21     would prefer, however, that the information on the discussions on agreed

22     facts, comes from both parties, and is included in a separate report and

23     that this be filed one week prior to the Rule 65 ter meetings.

24             The Chamber should therefore receive pre-trial reports from the

25     Prosecution one week prior to the 65 ter meetings, and these reports

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 1     should include an update on disclosure and information about any other

 2     pre-trial matter that the Prosecution would like to draw the attention of

 3     the Chamber to or information that the Chamber has requested.  The

 4     separate reports on agreed facts should be filed as joint submissions

 5     also one week prior to the 65 ter meetings.

 6             This is a general introduction.  I now move on to the next item,

 7     unless there is any observation one of the parties would like to make in

 8     relation to what I have just said.  I then move on to disclosure.

 9             The Prosecution's report of the 19th of September sets out in

10     detail the current situation with regard to disclosure.  During the

11     Rule 65 ter meeting, the Prosecution added further information to that

12     contained in the report and certain paragraphs of the report were

13     discussed in quite some detail.  During the meeting, I emphasized to the

14     Prosecution the importance of having clear dead-lines for when disclosure

15     should be completed.  The general dead-line for Rule 68(i) disclosure

16     remains the 15th of November, 2011, although the Prosecution has

17     announced at that meeting that it will request an extension of time.

18             In its report, the Prosecution announced that it would not be in

19     a position to disclose, by the 15th of November, 2011, such Rule 68(i)

20     material that only becomes apparent once the Defence has filed its

21     pre-trial brief.  The Chamber accepts this and sets the dead-line for

22     this part of the Rule 68(i) disclosure to 30 days following the filing of

23     the Defence's pre-trial brief.  The Chamber also instructs the

24     Prosecution to file a notice informing when this part of the Rule 68(i)

25     disclosure is completed.

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 1             Similarly, the Prosecution announced in its report that it would

 2     not be in a position to disclose, by the 15th of November, such

 3     Rule 68(i) material that only becomes apparent once it has filed its

 4     witness list.  For this part of the Rule 68(i) disclosure the Chamber

 5     sets the dead-line at 30 days following the filing of the Prosecution's

 6     witness list.  Again, the Prosecution is instructed to file a notice

 7     informing that this part of the Rule 68(i) disclosure is completed.

 8             At the 65 ter meeting, the Prosecution also announced that,

 9     although they were providing the Defence with all of the disclosed

10     material in the Karadzic case and the Srebrenica cases, that there were

11     three specific exceptions - which I will not further elaborate on at this

12     moment.  Further, it announced that the disclosure did not include audio

13     and visual video files.  The Chamber instructs the Prosecution to inform

14     the Chamber in its next pre-trial report as to where matters stand with

15     regard to these four exceptions.  That is the three I refer to and one

16     with the audio and the video files.

17             Finally, the Chamber sets the dead-line for Rule 66(A)(ii) to the

18     day when the Prosecution files its witness list.  This dead-line was

19     announced already during the 65 ter meeting.

20             At the meeting I also emphasized the importance for the Defence

21     to immediately start organising, reviewing, and processing the disclosed

22     material, in particular in light of the fact that there is more to come.

23     Mr. Lukic, at the Rule 65 ter meeting, you were also asked to confirm

24     within the next few days that you technically can access the general EDS

25     collection.  Can you also confirm that you technically have access to the

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 1     disclosure package that you received on the 3rd of October?  If you can

 2     do so now, fine, if not, then we'd like too receive your confirmation by

 3     the 12th of October and then an e-mail to Chamber staff would be

 4     sufficient for those purposes, but if you prefer to do it now --

 5             MR. LUKIC:  Your Honour, technically I can access materials

 6     received from the OTP.  I have some more inquiries and Ms. Janet Stewart

 7     is helping me with contacting their technical staff.

 8             JUDGE ORIE:  Yes.

 9             MR. LUKIC:  Regarding uploads, uploading those documents onto the

10     computer.

11             JUDGE ORIE:  Yes, are we talking about the general EDS collection

12     or are we talking about the package that was provided to you on the 3rd

13     of October.

14             MR. LUKIC:  We are talking about the package provided to me.

15             THE ACCUSED: [No interpretation]

16             JUDGE ORIE:  Mr. Mladic, if you would like to consult with

17     Mr. Lukic, there is no problem with that, but if you do it aloud then

18     everyone could hear it, so I don't know what you wanted to -- if you draw

19     the attention of Mr. Lukic, then he'll come to you and then you could

20     whisper rather than speak aloud.

21             THE ACCUSED:  Excuse me.

22                           [Defence counsel and accused confer]

23             JUDGE ORIE:  Mr. Lukic.

24             MR. LUKIC:  Your Honour, for now I have nothing to add.  I just

25     consulted Mr. Mladic, because he hasn't seen those documents.  I haven't

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 1     provided them to him, so he is unaware what I am talking about.

 2             JUDGE ORIE:  Yes, yes, I see that, and of course they are

 3     electronically provided to you and I take it that you will find your ways

 4     to communicate with Mr. Mladic about this large number of documents.

 5             Can I just verify, during the 65 ter meeting you said as far as

 6     the general EDS collection was concerned you had not tried it yet because

 7     there was -- I think there was some kind of a new thing you needed.  Have

 8     you tested it now and is that working?

 9             MR. LUKIC:  Your Honour, I told you that I left that token needed

10     for that test in Belgrade, and actually I have to receive the whole

11     booklet to be able to use it.  There are some instructions I don't have

12     at the moment with me.

13             JUDGE ORIE:  Okay.  If there would be any problem in that

14     respect, we would expect -- we would expect you to immediately give

15     notice of any problems you might have.

16             MR. LUKIC:  I will, thank you, Your Honour.

17             JUDGE ORIE:  Yes.  Are there any other questions or concerns in

18     relation to what I just said?  Defence not, Prosecution not.

19             Then I move on to the agreed facts.

20             On the 19th of September the parties have filed their first

21     progress report on the discussions on agreed facts.  The report sets out

22     31 facts that the Prosecution invites the Defence to agree on.  The

23     report further states that the Defence is currently considering its

24     position with regard to those facts.  At the Rule 65 ter meeting,

25     Mr. Lukic, you stated that the Defence is still considering its position

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 1     with regard to the facts.

 2             Now, are there any results to be reported in this respect?

 3             MR. LUKIC:  I haven't composed our answer, but there is progress

 4     on this issue because I had the opportunity to work on that with

 5     Mr. Mladic after 65 ter meeting, so I hope I will submit it first thing

 6     after my return back to Belgrade.

 7             JUDGE ORIE:  Yes, and of course agreed facts, we expect them in a

 8     joint submission so that it's clear that both parties commit themselves

 9     to what is agreed upon.

10             Have you identified any other facts that you would like, and I am

11     not asking about any details because negotiations between the parties is

12     not a matter the Chamber would intervene in, but have you identified any

13     further facts which you intend to propose to the Prosecution?

14             MR. LUKIC:  Actually, I had some conversations with Mr. Saljic on

15     this issue, but we haven't finalised our requests yet.

16             JUDGE ORIE:  You are encouraged hereby to continue to see what

17     can be achieved in this respect.

18             MR. LUKIC:  Thank you, Your Honour.

19             JUDGE ORIE:  Similar question to the Prosecution, is there any

20     new set of facts?  And again, I am not interested in your proposals but

21     whether progress is on its way.

22             MR. GROOME:  We have a second series of facts, Your Honours, that

23     we will be transmitting to Mr. Lukic in the next few days.

24             JUDGE ORIE:  Yes, thank you for that answer, Mr. Groome.

25             Now, in future reports the parties should inform this Chamber

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 1     about which facts they have agreed on.  Further, they should inform the

 2     Chamber about which facts have been discussed or what areas of facts have

 3     been discussed and what keeps the parties apart despite such discussions.

 4             The Chamber reminds the parties that the Chamber has proposed to

 5     look at details with regards to the crime base for the purpose of

 6     identifying undisputed facts, and the Chamber further encourages the

 7     parties to look at facts related to the historical background, at least

 8     to the extent necessary for the purpose of this indictment.  So

 9     historical background to the extent necessary, the structure of the VRS,

10     and the political structures of the Bosnian Serb republic, and when I am

11     talking about the Bosnian Serb republic, that would cover, I would say,

12     all the denominations under which those structures were known at the

13     time, whether that's the Serbian Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, or

14     whether that's Republika Srpska, so don't wrongly understand me when I am

15     talking about the Bosnian Serb republic, that takes everything together.

16             Any comments or observations in relation to this?  Mr. Groome.

17             MR. GROOME:  Your Honour, it may come to pass that there might by

18     agreement on the authenticity of certain documents or even document

19     collections.  If that were to happen, does the Chamber imagine or

20     consider that that would be -- this would be the appropriate vehicle to

21     bring that agreement before the Chamber?

22             JUDGE ORIE:  I will consider that because I have not discussed

23     this with my colleagues.  I think it's good to know that if documents are

24     used in court that we reasonably could expect that there is no challenge

25     of the authenticity, to that extent I think it would be good for us to

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 1     know.  In what form it would exactly to inform the Chamber, I will

 2     discuss that with my colleagues.

 3             If there are no further observations or comments in this respect,

 4     I would like to move on to Rule 73 bis(D).

 5             At the first Status Conference I indicated that the Prosecution

 6     should be ready to file its Rule 73 bis(D) submissions in November.  The

 7     Chamber is hereby setting the dead-line for those submissions for the

 8     18th of November, 2011, and the Defence should respond by the 25th of

 9     November, 2011.  Further to the instructions given at the first Status

10     Conference, the Chamber would like the Prosecution to address which

11     municipalities in the municipality part of the case could, in its

12     opinion, be taken out of the indictment.

13             Before I move on to my next item, any comments, any observations

14     in relation to 73 bis(D)?

15             If not, I move on to the adjudicated facts.

16             The parties will recall that at the first Status Conference, I

17     indicated that any adjudicated facts motions should be filed in December

18     of this year.  As it will likely concern a large number of facts which

19     have to be processed by the other side when responding, and by the

20     Chamber when deciding on the motion, the Chamber would like to discuss

21     the format of such motions.

22             And for this purpose, the Chamber instructs the parties to file,

23     within two weeks of today, a template for the adjudicated facts motion,

24     specifically the part listing the facts.  The Chamber will then provide

25     any comments it has on that in time for the parties to properly prepare

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 1     their motions.

 2             And what I say now was already announced during the 65 ter

 3     meeting earlier this week, but it's now on the public record as well.

 4     Any comments in relation to the adjudicated facts as matters stand now,

 5     exclusively on the format?

 6             I then move on to the presentation and the tendering of evidence.

 7             At that same Rule 65 ter meeting, we started to discuss the

 8     presentation and tendering of evidence.  At the next Rule 65 ter meeting,

 9     the Chamber intends to continue this discussion and provide the parties

10     with some guidance in this respect.  This will include the use of

11     Rule 92 bis and Rule 92 ter and the use of bar table submissions.  At the

12     Rule 65 ter meeting, I asked the parties to make any submissions in this

13     respect one week prior to the next meeting, and on the 4th of October the

14     Chamber provided the parties, through an informal communication, with a

15     number of questions that they could address in those submissions.  The

16     Prosecution could include these also in its pre-trial report.

17             Any questions in relation to this?  Then the next item on my

18     agenda is the communication between the parties and the Chamber.

19             As the parties may have noticed there is occasionally a need for

20     the parties and the Chamber to communicate outside court and without

21     using formal filings.  To the extent possible, the Chamber invites the

22     parties to do so through e-mail, with all parties and the Chamber staff

23     being copied.  If the communication is of a purely administrative

24     character, an e-mail will suffice.  If the communication contains some

25     substance, it needs to be put on the record at a later stage, either in

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 1     formal filings or during Status Conferences or during other court

 2     hearings.

 3             With regards to request for leave to reply, the Chamber reminds

 4     the parties that the request for leave must clearly lay out the arguments

 5     for why the Chamber should grant the request.  The Chamber's decision to

 6     grant or to deny such leave will be based solely on the information

 7     presented in the request for leave without regard to any arguments made

 8     in the reply itself.  The parties may file the request for leave to reply

 9     with the proposed reply attached, so long as they are clearly separated

10     within the filing.  So not that we, at the end of the request, we

11     immediately move on because the Chamber will make a clear distinction

12     between the two.  The Chamber's decision on the request for leave will be

13     announced in the final decision on the motion itself.

14             Any questions or observations in this respect?

15             Mr. Mladic, during the first Status Conference you raised the

16     issue of you being handcuffed while transported to and from the Tribunal.

17     By the way, transportation today suffered quite a delay and the Chamber

18     will further enquire what caused it exactly and also what measures are

19     taken to avoid that similar delays will occur again.

20             Your observations during the first Status Conference were relayed

21     to the Registry and to the Dutch transport police, and they were

22     considered by them, because they are the responsible authorities.  The

23     Chamber has been informed through an informal communication by the

24     Registry, that the handcuffing is standard procedure applicable to all

25     detainees, and the Chamber understands that the possibility for an

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 1     exception is limited, and that if you want to make a submission in this

 2     respect, that you should direct the Registry, and Mr. Lukic certainly

 3     will be able to assist you in such a matter.  But, again, the possibility

 4     for exemptions are limited.  It's standard procedure for everyone.

 5             For the next item, I would like to briefly go into private

 6     session.

 7                           [Private session]

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23   (redacted)

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25   (redacted)

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21   (redacted)

22                           [Open session]

23             THE REGISTRAR:  We are in open session, Your Honours.

24             JUDGE ORIE:  Thank you.

25             Mr. Mladic, I -- we are now back in open session.  You have just

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 1     expressed, as your preference, to address any health matter in open

 2     session rather than in private session.

 3             Before I give you an opportunity to do so, I would like to say a

 4     few words.  As I said before, the healthcare is the primary

 5     responsibility of the Registrar, so if it comes to treatment, whatever it

 6     is, that is for the Registry.

 7             Now, to the extent your health may impact on the proceedings, of

 8     course, then the Chamber would like to be informed about it, but please,

 9     then, be aware that we would not exclusively rely on what you tell us but

10     we will then seek medical reports to be produced supporting or, perhaps,

11     not supporting the position you have taken.  And I will give you an

12     opportunity to address health matters, at the same time be not surprised

13     if at a certain moment I say, well, this is a matter for which we need

14     better and, perhaps, written expert opinion before we can deal with it.

15     So if you could please address the matters in a summary format.  If I

16     have any further questions to you, you will hear from me.

17             The time you have -- how much time do you think you would need?

18             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Gentlemen, Mr. Orie, I have all the

19     rest of my life before me.  I don't know how long it will take.  I am not

20     in a hurry.  I want to live as long as possible and to live to be free.

21     I am sorry about this delay, it is not the security service that is

22     responsible but my health.  I had some problems this morning, but I don't

23     want to discuss them so you don't have to pull down the blinds.

24             As far as I can see, there are six cameras here all trained at

25     me.  Sometimes at you and the Office of the Prosecutor, my good friends,

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 1     and my lawyers.  They are very nice guys.  And the security guards here,

 2     too.  They helped me get dressed, get here, and all that is fine.  I will

 3     say very briefly, I even got used to this procedure.  I have to tell you

 4     that in the 69th year of my life I have serious health problems, and I

 5     will fight to overcome because I am not defending myself but I am

 6     defending General Mladic.

 7             Forgive me for saying this, but even the way I am now, even if

 8     this situation, I am still defending both the Republika Srpska and Serbia

 9     and the whole people there.  I am going to tell you certain things that

10     you have no input about.

11             JUDGE ORIE:  Mr. Mladic --

12             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] -- I am sure.  And I'm sorry, I'll

13     take five minutes.

14             JUDGE ORIE:  I interrupt you for a moment.  I want it to be very

15     clear that you are charged before this Tribunal and that therefore, since

16     no one else, not a republic, not a people, is charged, that your defence

17     should focus on the person who is charged and that in the margin of that,

18     of course, Republika Srpska, that was the entity in which you functioned,

19     may be mentioned and may be referred to, that goes without saying, but I

20     would urge you to defend yourself as an accused rather than to defend

21     persons, entities, organisations, which are not accused before this

22     Tribunal.

23             You may proceed.

24             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Orie.  You look very

25     nice on the screen, and you look very nice in the flesh.  You are

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 1     approximately my age, I believe.  Since I am supposed to defend myself

 2     and defend myself successfully, I have to tell you, in summary form, the

 3     more pressure I am put upon -- I am put under, the stronger I get.

 4             A gentleman from the French embassy came to see me earlier today.

 5     He asked me if I would receive him, and that was a certain

 6     Mr. Kennedy [phoen], and I agreed.  He wanted to speak to me in the

 7     hallway.  I was given a chair, and I had to sit down.  The gentleman from

 8     the embassy, I thought he was the French ambassador and I was happy.  He

 9     brought a small bag with some material that I was given to look through

10     in my cell about a family called Kovac, from the former Bosnia and

11     Herzegovina, from the area of Foca, and I read it in the Serbian

12     language.

13             JUDGE ORIE:  Mr. Mladic, I gave you an opportunity to raise any

14     health issues.  I invite you to be focussed on that, and if there are any

15     other meetings or discussions which have any relevance for these

16     proceedings, please ask Mr. Lukic to file a motion, a request, or

17     whatever submissions he thinks to be appropriate to address the Chamber

18     on the matters, but at this moment I gave you an opportunity to raise any

19     health issue.  And however flattered I may feel with your nice

20     observations, let's get to why we are here; that is, for the preparation

21     of your trial and, at this very moment, to hear any specific matters

22     about your health situation.

23             I was informed that you didn't feel well this morning.  I was

24     even informed that that was the reason why you couldn't stand when I

25     entered the courtroom.  As you said, security is always very helpful.  I

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 1     am almost certain that they would have assisted you if you wished to have

 2     to stand up, and I hope -- but please tell me if it's different, I hope

 3     that you are able to stand later to leave this courtroom and to get back

 4     to the UNDU but otherwise we will take appropriate measures or security

 5     will assist you from getting up from your chair as they would have done,

 6     I think, at the beginning of this hearing.

 7             Please, health issues, Mr. Mladic.

 8             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Mr. Orie, I have already asked

 9     through my lawyer that both Republika Srpska and Serbia be given approval

10     to enable the doctors who examined me earlier from 1996 to 1998 and are

11     familiar with my health status at that time and they examined me -- in

12     fact, I was examined at the prison in Belgrade by some other doctors whom

13     I don't know.  And since I am now in the position of an accused, I want

14     to be visited by the doctors who gave me my first diagnosis in 1996, and

15     I didn't want to say this to my wife who is here, but I have a movement

16     of the stone in my kidney and I have strong bad pain in the urethra.  I

17     am a sick man and I want to get better not to disrupt these proceedings.

18             I don't want to tell you about what happened this morning.  I was

19     told to get ready on time.  They assisted me in getting up from the bed

20     and getting dressed, and they brought me here.  I don't want to slow down

21     the proceedings.  I want to see truth established because that is the

22     best help I can give myself and my friends.  I am not seeing you as my

23     enemies, neither you, nor the Tribunal, nor the personnel of this

24     Tribunal.  If the Security Council of the United Nations found the money

25     to set up this Tribunal, let them be patient and go through all the

Page 92

 1     facts, one by one, rather than vice versa.  It makes me angry that you

 2     mentioned Srebrenica.  Take it in proper order.  I was there from 1991,

 3     from Knin.  Take it one village by village, mountain by mountain, town by

 4     town, municipality by municipality.

 5             If you put any pressure on me, it will not end well.  I

 6     understand that time is money for you, but I requested that my Defence

 7     team be filled to full complement.  I asked for the lawyer called

 8     Mezyaev, there was a problem with him.  Then I asked for that American,

 9     Dan Ivetic.  There is a problem with him, too.  How am I supposed to

10     defend myself?  Am I supposed to do it on my own?  I - and this will be

11     the last thing I say - I watched with my own eyes our children burning

12     inside tanks in Slovenia.  And that was the end of it, nothing happened.

13     Slovenia became a full-fledged member state of the United Nations, an

14     independent state.  Sorry.

15             JUDGE ORIE:  Mr. Mladic, you are moving away from the health

16     issues.  I think you have addressed that your kidney stones and urethra

17     pain is causing you some trouble.  I also do understand that you say

18     let's seriously look at all the aspects of the case.  I do understand

19     that unduly pressurising you might not be a good idea.  At the same time,

20     we are also responsible for a trial within a reasonable time, and we'll

21     find a fair balance for that.

22             As far as your Defence is concerned, I can tell you that your

23     Defence is facilitated in the same way as the Defence of other accused

24     before this Tribunal, and as Mr. Lukic is aware of, there is still

25     ongoing discussion with OLAD on matters like qualification of this case,

Page 93

 1     et cetera, so proper attention will be paid to that.

 2             Is there any other matter at this moment that you would like to

 3     raise, or Mr. Lukic would like to raise?  Perhaps I make one observation

 4     about the cameras.

 5             There are clear instructions for our technicians how the cameras

 6     should be used.  Who -- the six cameras are always there, but how to

 7     compose the picture, that is under strict rules, and our technical staff

 8     abides by those rules.  That means that sometimes you, sometimes me,

 9     sometimes the Prosecution, sometimes the Defence.

10             Any other matter?  Mr. Lukic.  Yes.

11                           [Defence counsel and accused confer]

12             MR. LUKIC: [Previous translation continues] ...

13             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Mr. Orie?

14             JUDGE ORIE:  Yes.

15             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Both the bread and the knife to cut

16     it with are in your hands.  You're a powerful man, and the Tribunal is

17     the best company or factory or bank in Europe.  There is always money

18     available to you, and I have to say something else about the cameras.  I

19     don't know who has produced them, but chapeau to him, and now I would

20     like to move on to the issue of my health.

21             My wife is here in The Hague.  I thought that she had left today,

22     but she's leaving tomorrow.  Since my health has deteriorated, if I

23     remain alive until the end of this Status Conference today, could you

24     please make it possible for my wife to come and see me for a minute or

25     five minutes, and Milos knows where my wife is.  That's number one.

Page 94

 1             Number two.  A camera is a rowboat.  I don't have anything

 2     against cameras.  Just a moment, please.  I apologise, I have to tell you

 3     this.  I have to impart something useful to you.  I don't know where the

 4     lady is sitting who wrote that book.  I spoke to her.  And in that book

 5     and on TV Belgrade one of the lady journalists said that I had given

 6     sweets to Muslim children in Srebrenica, and then my security staff took

 7     those sweets away from the children.

 8             This is a lie.  This is a blatant lie.  I apologise.

 9             JUDGE ORIE:  Mr. Mladic, I gave you an opportunity earlier to

10     raise health issues.  You have done that in some respects.  After that

11     you moved away from health issues.  Now you are asking us whether it

12     would be possible for your wife to visit you.  Again, the United Nations

13     Detention Unit is under the responsibility of the Registrar.  Mr. Lukic

14     will know how to address that matter and to see whether that's possible.

15     The Chamber at this moment is not involved in that.

16             Then the second issue.  If you start talking about books written

17     by whomever telling any lies, the Chamber will exclusively rely on what

18     is presented as evidence in this court.  And whoever might have written

19     in whatever publication whatever lie, that is not the basis on which this

20     Chamber will proceed.  Unless there is a clear, brief health issue you,

21     in addition, would like to raise, I give an opportunity to the

22     Prosecution to make any further submissions.

23             Mr. Groome.

24             MR. GROOME:  Your Honour, there is no other matter that we wish

25     to raise.  Thank you.

Page 95

 1             JUDGE ORIE:  Mr. Lukic.

 2             MR. LUKIC:  Your Honour, there is nothing else we have to add.

 3             JUDGE ORIE:  Then I would like to inform the parties that the

 4     next 65 ter meeting, so not the next Status Conference, will be held on

 5     the 8th of November, and that the next Status Conference is scheduled for

 6     the 10th of November of this year, and I further remind the parties that

 7     the next progress report on agreed facts is due 1st of November, 2011, as

 8     is the Prosecution's next pre-trial report.

 9             We therefore adjourn until the 10th of November, 2011, courtroom

10     and exact time to be communicated by the Registry at a later stage.  We

11     stand adjourned.

12                           --- Whereupon the Status Conference adjourned at

13                           4.27 p.m.