1 Wednesday, 23 October 2013
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.53 a.m.
5 JUDGE ORIE: Good morning to everyone in and around this
6 courtroom. I hear French on the English channel, which I would expect to
7 hear as channel 5 and not on channel 4.
8 Madam Registrar, would you please call the case.
9 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours.
10 This is the case IT-09-92-T, the Prosecutor versus Ratko Mladic.
11 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar.
12 The Chamber was informed that the witness to be called today is
13 at least temporarily not available.
14 Could you inform the Chamber.
15 MS. BIBLES: Good morning, Your Honours. Counsel.
16 Your Honours, our next witness is Mr. Rechner, who is quite ill
17 this morning. He has been ill since the weekend. His flight here was
18 actually delayed. Yesterday he thought he was better and anticipated
19 being able to testify, but he is not in condition to testify this
21 I can advise the Court our next witness is -- does not arrive in
22 The Hague until tonight. He is a witness, Mr. Riley, who will need to
23 testify on Friday. He has other time commitments, starting this weekend.
24 But, for the moment, our current witness is not able to attend.
25 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, would Mr. Rechner be available early next week
1 or ... after -- after Mr. Riley?
2 MS. BIBLES: Yes, Your Honour. We'll be monitoring the schedule,
3 obviously, and will have him testify as soon as possible.
4 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. The Chamber would like to be updated regularly
5 on the development of the health problems of Mr. Rechner.
6 And for the time being, there seems to be no other solution than
7 to cancel today's hearing, but -- and that also caused some delay in the
8 start of this hearing. The Chamber had to prepare a few matters in order
9 to use part of this session to deal with some outstanding procedural
10 matters. And, therefore, I'd like to do that, unless the Defence would
11 have any other suggestions as to how to proceed.
12 If not, we'll deal with a few matters.
13 The -- first deals with Rule 92 bis material. In relation to the
14 decision on the Prosecution's 18th Rule 92 bis motion, the Chamber has
15 reviewed the declaration and attestation for Witness Ramic subsequently
16 provided by the Prosecution and hereby confirms admission of P2528.
17 The next item I'd like to deal is -- relates to Exhibits P1736,
18 P1739, P1740 and P1481 which were all tendered through Witness Manning.
19 On the 10th of July, the Chamber admitted Exhibits P1736, which
20 was 141 pages long; P1739, which was 391 pages long; P1740, which was
21 283 pages long; and P1481, which was 88 pages long into evidence through
22 Witness Manning.
23 P1739 was, in the meantime, also used by the Defence in their
24 cross-examination of Witness Maljaars. P1481 was used by the Prosecution
25 with Witness RM306 and Witness Haglund and by the Defence in their
1 cross-examination of Witness Janc. The Prosecution is instructed to
2 select which pages of these exceptionally voluminous exhibits they wish
3 to rely upon, and upload new and shortened versions by the
4 6th of November. The Defence should ensure that the selection covers the
5 parts they have used in their cross-examination and are invited to
6 address the Chamber if there's any problem in that respect.
7 Then in order to deliver two decisions, we move into
8 private session.
9 [Private session]
11 Pages 18285-18288 redacted. Private session.
18 [Open session]
19 THE REGISTRAR: We're in open session, Your Honours.
20 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar.
21 For the public record, the Chamber has, through an oral --
22 through two oral decisions, admitted Exhibits P1596 up to and including
23 P1608, and Exhibit P1060 into evidence under seal. All of them under
25 These were the matters that were still on our agenda. Is there
1 anything at this moment to be raised by any of the parties?
2 [Prosecution counsel confer]
3 [Trial Chamber confers]
4 JUDGE ORIE: Ms. Bibles, the Chamber wonders, we haven't seen
5 Mr. Rechner today or over the last few days. Is there any chance that
6 later today, perhaps after having taken medication, or whatever, that you
7 consider it a possibility that he would again be fit to give his
8 testimony so that we could start at half past 11.00, 12.00, so as not to
9 lose time.
10 MS. BIBLES: Your Honour, unfortunately, I may not be fully
11 qualified to answer the question. He was quite ill this morning. I will
12 check with the -- the witness unit to see what his circumstance is. I
13 understand that he was seeking medical care this morning. So I will
14 check and advise the Court if it is possible that he could come this
15 afternoon. We do hate to lose an entire day of court.
16 So I will check. Based on what I understand or what I saw this
17 morning, I think that is doubtful. But I will certainly check and keep
18 you apprised.
19 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. That, however, we should form an opinion or an
20 impression about that early. We can't ask Mr. Mladic to wait here for
21 hours an hours and then to find out that no evidence will be heard today.
22 So, therefore, I would like you to found out, together with the
23 Victims and Witness Unit, within, well, let's say, the next 15 minutes.
24 That seems to be reasonable.
25 Mr. Mladic, as always, is invited to remain seated and switch off
1 his microphone when he consults with counsel and keep the volume of his
2 voice low.
3 [Defence counsel confer]
4 JUDGE ORIE: Therefore, I would suggest that we wait until 20
5 minutes to 11.00 - that's a little bit over 20 minutes - to hear from the
6 victims and witness section whether there's any chance that we could hear
7 some of the evidence of Mr. Rechner today. If, by that moment, we have
8 no positive indication that he could testify later today, Mr. Mladic may
9 be transported back to the United Nations Detention Unit and, in that
10 situation, we adjourn.
11 So therefore -- one second, please.
12 [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]
13 JUDGE ORIE: Ms. Bibles.
14 MS. BIBLES: Thank you, Your Honour. I just received an e-mail
15 advising --
16 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, perhaps I most likely have received the same
18 I do understand that the witness has indicated that he feels so
19 unwell that he considers it impossible to testify. Further, his
20 appointment with a doctor has been scheduled for 11.00 which means that
21 we would lose most of the day anyhow.
22 Under those circumstances, we adjourn for the day, and tomorrow
23 being an UN holiday, we will resume at Friday, the 25th of October, at
24 9.30 in the morning, in this same courtroom, I.
25 Ms. Bibles, any --
1 MS. BIBLES: One further question since our scheduling is an
2 issue. I might inquire as to what our schedule might be next week,
3 whether we would be sitting four or five days.
4 JUDGE ORIE: We will consider that. The Chamber will most likely
5 decide on that today. We have to find out -- I mean, the four days are
6 clearly ordered by the Appeals Chamber. The matter is how to fill that
7 in, what days. We'll consider that today, and we'll inform the parties
8 most likely, informally, before Friday.
9 We -- as I said, we adjourn until Friday, the 25th of October,
10 9.30 in the morning, in this same courtroom, I.
11 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 10.21 a.m.,
12 to be reconvened on Friday, the 25th day of
13 October, 2013, at 9.30 a.m.