1 Wednesday, 21 May 2003
2 [Initial Appearance]
3 [Open session]
4 [The accused entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 3.42 p.m.
6 JUDGE AGIUS: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Madam
7 Registrar, could you call the case, please.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honour. Case number
9 IT-95-13/1-I, the Prosecutor versus Miroslav Radic.
10 JUDGE AGIUS: Before I proceed, Mr. Radic, do I take it that you
11 can hear me or hear -- follow what I am saying in a language that you can
13 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes.
14 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you.
15 Appearances for the Prosecution.
16 MR. WUBBEN: Good afternoon, Your Honour. My name is Jan Wubben,
17 senior trial attorney. At my side you see Ms. Joanne Richardson, lawyer;
18 Kristina Carey, lawyer; and at the very side, Ms. Diane Boles, case
20 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. Thank you. Good afternoon to you.
21 Appearances for Miroslav Radic.
22 MR. BOROVIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honour. I am
23 Borovije Borovic, an attorney from Belgrade, Defence counsel for Miroslav
24 Radic. With me is my assistant, Lea Gerasimovic. Thank you.
25 JUDGE AGIUS: Good afternoon to you too and welcome to this
1 Tribunal. I hear this is your first time here. So welcome.
2 We shall now proceed with the Initial Appearance of Miroslav
3 Radic, and this I'm doing pursuant to Rule 62 of the Rules of Procedure
4 and Evidence of this Tribunal. Before I ask -- I put some questions to
5 Mr. Radic, I will just give a very brief outline of how we have arrived to
7 The indictment against your client was initially confirmed on the
8 7th of November of 1995, was eventually reconfirmed on the 3rd of April of
9 the subsequent year, 1996, and was then last amended and confirmed on the
10 2nd of December of 1997.
11 On the 7th of November, 1995, and on the 3rd April 1996,
12 international arrest warrants were issued against the accused, Miroslav
13 Radic. Miroslav Radic was transferred to the Detention Unit of this
14 Tribunal last Saturday, that is, May 17th, 2003.
15 The President of this Tribunal, on the 20th of May, issued an
16 order assigning this case to Trial Chamber II, of which I form part. And
17 then the Presiding Judge of Trial Chamber II, on the same day, assigned
18 the case to me, and assigned me as the Pre-Trial Judge in this case. I
19 will elaborate on this also later on, because I'm also the Pre-Trial Judge
20 in the proceedings against Mrksic.
21 Now, Mr. Radic, I am going to address you directly now, but before
22 I do so, I will caution you that you have a right to remain silent if you
23 choose to, although what I will be asking today is by no means
24 prejudicial. And you also have a privilege against self-incrimination. I
25 will be asking you some questions, and then I will also be asking you to
1 enter a plea on each of the counts that have been brought against you by
2 the indictment that we will be going through very soon, and that is the
3 last version of the indictment, that is, the one as amended and confirmed
4 on the 2nd of December of 1997.
5 So please stand up. And my very first question to you is a
6 repetition of the same question that I asked you before. I want to make
7 sure that you can follow what I am saying in a language that you can
8 understand, in other words, that you are receiving a proper
10 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, everything is in order, Your
12 JUDGE AGIUS: Could you please give me your full name.
13 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Miroslav Radic.
14 JUDGE AGIUS: Are you also by any chance known or referred to by a
15 nickname? In which case, could we also have your nickname.
16 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Misa.
17 JUDGE AGIUS: When were you born, your date of birth?
18 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] On the 10th of September, 1962.
19 JUDGE AGIUS: And where were you born, your place of birth?
20 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I was born in Zemun, a municipality
21 of Belgrade.
22 JUDGE AGIUS: What is the address at which you last resided before
23 you were actually taken into custody, before you were arrested.
24 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] The Dva Bela Goluba Street number
25 10, Zvezdara municipality in Belgrade.
1 JUDGE AGIUS: I have an interest to know if your family, first,
2 and the embassy of your country, of your state, have been informed about
3 your arrest. So we'll take them one by one. Do the immediate members of
4 your family know of your arrest as well as your transfer to the Detention
5 Unit of this Tribunal?
6 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.
7 JUDGE AGIUS: The same applies, I would take it, to the embassy of
8 your country, the embassy here in The Hague.
9 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.
10 JUDGE AGIUS: Is it your wish or desire to have any member of your
11 family, that is, not yet aware of your presence here in The Hague and of
12 your condition here in The Hague to be notified? Is there anyone else you
13 would like to know?
14 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] No.
15 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you. Please take a seat.
16 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.
17 JUDGE AGIUS: Now, the Statute of this Tribunal ensures and
18 requires that you will undergo a fair trial, and in order to assure that,
19 there are certain basic principles that have been incorporated in the
20 Statute itself. The registrar will be reading out to you the two main
21 articles from the Statute that relate to these rights that you have and
22 respective responsibilities of the Tribunal and of me, myself, as the
23 Pre-Trial Judge.
24 Madam Registrar, could I ask you to read out slowly Articles 20
25 and 21 of the Statute. Thank you.
1 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour.
2 Article 20: Commencement and conduct of trial proceedings. The
3 Trial Chambers shall ensure that a trial is fair and expeditious and that
4 proceedings are conducted in accordance with the Rules of Procedure and
5 Evidence, with full respect for the rights of the accused and due regard
6 for the protection of victims and witnesses. A person against whom an
7 indictment has been confirmed shall, pursuant to an order or an arrest
8 warrant of the International Tribunal be taken into custody, immediately
9 informed of the charges against him, and transferred to the International
11 The Trial Chamber shall read the indictment, satisfy itself that
12 the rights of the accused are respected, confirm that the accused
13 understands the indictment, and instruct the accused to enter a plea.
14 The Trial Chamber shall then set the date for trial.
15 The hearing shall be public, unless a Trial Chamber decides to
16 close a proceedings, in accordance with its Rules of Procedure and
18 Article 21: Rights of the accused. All persons shall be equal
19 before the International Tribunal. In the determination of charges
20 against him, the accused shall be entitled to a fair and public hearing,
21 subject to Article 22 of the Statute.
22 The accused shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty,
23 according to the provisions of the present Statute.
24 In the determination of any charge against the accused pursuant to
25 the present Statute, the accused shall be entitled to the following
1 minimum guarantees in full equality:
2 A) to be informed promptly and in detail in a language which he
3 understands of the nature and cause of the charge against him; B) to have
4 adequate time and facilities for the preparation of his defence and to
5 communicate with counsel of his own choosing; C) to be tried without undue
6 delay; D) to be tried in his presence and to defend himself in person or
7 through legal assistance of his own choosing, to be informed if he does
8 not have legal assistance of this right, and to have legal assistance
9 assigned to him in any case where the interests of justice are required,
10 and without payment by him in any such case if he does not have sufficient
11 means to pay for it; E) to examine or have examined the witnesses against
12 him and to obtain the attendance and examination of witnesses on his
13 behalf under the same conditions as witnesses against him; F) to have the
14 free assistance of an interpreter if he cannot understand or speak the
15 language used in the International Tribunal; G) not to be compelled to
16 testify against himself or to confess guilt.
17 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. And in addition to what has just been read out
18 to you from Articles 20 and 21 of the Statute, there is another provision
19 contained in Rule 62 of the Rules of Evidence and procedure of this
20 Tribunal which makes it incumbent on me at this very early stage of the
21 proceedings to satisfy myself that your right to counsel is respected. I
22 do notice that you do have counsel here present, and I am informed that
23 counsel has been confirmed for the purposes of this Initial Appearance,
24 and we will talk about what comes later in due course. But for the time
25 being, I am satisfied, do I take it, Mr. Borovic, that you have indeed
1 been appointed as counsel to represent him for the purpose of this Initial
2 Appearance for the time being?
3 MR. BOROVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, you are quite right.
4 This is a nomination that I have been informed of.
5 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Thank you. So let's proceed.
6 Mr. Radic, have you been given -- have you been served with the
7 indictment in the language -- in your own language, the language which you
9 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I have, Your Honour.
10 JUDGE AGIUS: Did you read it?
11 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I have.
12 JUDGE AGIUS: And you understand its contents and the nature of
13 the charges that have been brought against you?
14 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.
15 JUDGE AGIUS: Now, in terms of Rule 62 of the Rules of Procedure
16 and Evidence of this Tribunal, you have the right to enter a plea of
17 guilty or not guilty; you also have a right to remain silent if you want
18 to, on each count, either today or within 30 days from today, which is the
19 day of the Initial Appearance. I have to warn you that if you fail,
20 should you fail to enter a plea, either today or within the time limit
21 that I have just mentioned to you, then the Trial Chamber itself, that's
22 me, as the Pre-Trial Judge, shall enter, in accordance with the same Rule
23 62, a plea of not guilty on your behalf. So that is the position. I
24 would like to know whether you have discussed this with Mr. Borovic, your
25 counsel, and whether you are in a position and prepared to plead -- to
1 enter a plea to each of the charges today.
2 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I am ready, Your Honour.
3 JUDGE AGIUS: And you have discussed it with your lawyer?
4 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes.
5 JUDGE AGIUS: The next thing I would like to know, or rather,
6 confirm, is that I have been informed by your counsel that you waive your
7 right to have the indictment read out in full today and that you would be
8 satisfied if you are just given a short description of the various counts
9 that have been brought against you. Can you confirm that this is so?
10 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, that's right, Your Honour.
11 JUDGE AGIUS: And as a consequence, therefore, I need to point out
12 that it will not be the entire indictment that will be read out to you,
13 but I will just read out to you the essence of the charges contained in
14 the indictment, in other words, the essence of the various counts which
15 have been brought against you under or by the indictment of the 2nd
16 December of 1997.
17 Having given you a short explanation of what you are charged with
18 in each count, after that, I will ask you whether you wish to enter a plea
19 of guilty or not guilty with regard to that count, and we will proceed
20 accordingly, one count after another. Your answer in each case should be
21 a very short one. It's either guilty or not guilty, as the case may be.
22 If you prefer to remain silent, then you can opt to do so and you will, of
23 course, be able to take advantage of the grace period that has been
24 referred to by me before, but I take it that you will be entering a plea
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
1 So, Mr. Radic, the first count contained in the indictment is
2 charge of wilfully causing great suffering, this being a grave breach of
3 the Geneva Conventions of 1949, punishable under Article 2(c) and Article
4 7(1) and Article 7(3) of the Statute of this Tribunal. If you need any
5 explanation as to what these three articles provide, I will give you that.
6 Do you need a further explanation or do you take what I have explained to
7 you as being sufficient?
8 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I understand what you say, Your
10 JUDGE AGIUS: Do you plead guilty or not guilty to this count?
11 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty, Your Honour.
12 JUDGE AGIUS: The second count against you is one of charge of
13 cruel treatment, a violation of the laws or customs of war, punishable
14 under Article 3 and Articles 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the
15 Tribunal. Again, if you want a description, an explanation of what these
16 articles provide, I will do so; if you don't, we will proceed with the
17 entering of the plea. I take it that I can proceed. How do you plead to
18 this count? Guilty or not guilty?
19 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty, Your Honour.
20 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you, Mr. Radic. The third count is --
21 contains a charge of inhumane acts, being a crime against humanity,
22 punishable under Article 5(i) and Article 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of
23 this Tribunal. How do you plead to this count? Guilty or not guilty?
24 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty, Your Honour.
25 JUDGE AGIUS: The fourth count is one consisting of a charge of
1 wilful killing, a grave breach of the Geneva Conventions of 1949,
2 punishable under Article 2(a) and Article 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of
3 this Tribunal. How do you plead to this count? Guilty or not guilty?
4 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty, Your Honour.
5 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you. Fifth count again is a charge -- is a
6 count containing a charge of murder, being a violation of the laws or
7 customs of war, punishable under Article 3 and Article 7(1) and 7(3) of
8 the Statute of this Tribunal. How do you plead to this count? Guilty or
9 not guilty?
10 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty, Your Honour.
11 JUDGE AGIUS: And the last count again is one containing --
12 consisting of a charge of murder, being a crime against humanity,
13 punishable under Articles 5(a) and Articles 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute
14 of the Tribunal. How do you plead to this sixth and final count? Guilty
15 or not guilty?
16 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty, Your Honour.
17 JUDGE AGIUS: Please take a seat, Mr. Radic.
18 Madam Registrar, could you please put on record that Mr. Radic has
19 pleaded not guilty to each of the six counts which have been brought
20 against him in the indictment confirmed on the 2nd of December, 1997.
21 I am also hereby instructing the registrar to fix a date for
22 trial, when appropriate. This will be communicated to you and your lawyer
23 in due course, when applicable.
24 I am also providing, ordering, that in the meantime, you will
25 remain in custody, and that is until further orders. I do want to inform
1 you, however, that you do have a right to file a motion at any time,
2 requesting your provisional release, and this is pursuant to Rule 65 of
3 the Rules of Procedure and Evidence of this Tribunal. And should you do
4 so, I can assure you that the Trial Chamber will take cognizance of it and
5 decide it with the utmost celerity.
6 I turn to you, Prosecution in this case, to remind you of your
7 duty pursuant to Rule 66 of the Rules of Procedure and Evidence, that you
8 have 30 days within which to disclose to the Defence, in a language which
9 the accused understands, all the supporting material which accompanied the
10 indictment when confirmation was sought.
11 Corresponding to this duty of the Prosecution, you have, in terms
12 of Rule 72(A), a 30-day period for filing any preliminary motions once you
13 have received all the supporting material in accordance with Rule 66.
14 Now, this is where I foresee a little bit of a technical problem, because,
15 Mr. Borovic, until you remain the legal representative of your counsel for
16 the purposes of this Initial Appearance only, I have no way of instructing
17 the prosecuting officer to hand these documents to you, because you will
18 not have a locus standi in these proceedings until and unless your
19 appointment as Defence counsel is proved by the registrar. So I am giving
20 notice more or less a verbal notice to your client, Mr. Radic, of the
21 right he has to have these documents disclosed, and the interest that he
22 may have to ensure that he is provided with proper legal assistance to
23 which he is entitled both under our Rules and under our Statute.
24 I am pointing this out also to the registrar, and it's almost
25 needless for me to highlight the importance that this matter is given
1 attention to without any delay, failing which the rights of the accused
2 could be prejudiced.
3 Basically, this means, Mr. Radic, that you can yourself make known
4 to the registrar your wish to be represented without delay, for the
5 purposes of all the proceedings that will follow after today. Today is
6 just the Initial Appearance. I don't know whether you have understood
7 what I said. You have no guarantee that Mr. Borovic will be able to
8 represent you as from the termination of this initial hearing unless and
9 until something is done about it by the registrar. So it's in the
10 interests of both of you to take the necessary actions. And my interest
11 is to bring this out to you and make it known.
12 At this point in time, is there anything that the Prosecution
13 would like to raise?
14 MR. WUBBEN: Thank you, Your Honour. I'd like you to know that we
15 still consider this case to be a joint case as a case against Mrksic and
16 Radic including. It means that now in the Mrksic trial, pre-trial, there
17 is still a ruling on the preliminary motion.
18 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.
19 MR. WUBBEN: That it means that whenever Prosecution side has a
20 plan to request this Trial Chamber for allow us to file second amended
21 indictment against Radic, including Mrksic, that we shall wait for filing
22 request like this, until Trial Chamber II has decided upon this
23 preliminary motion by the Defence of Mrksic. I'd like to confirm this to
24 you as a further explanation and announcement.
25 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. And perhaps we are on the same wavelength on
1 this, Mr. Wubben. Perhaps I would better explain it a little bit and in
2 some detail, because I'm pretty sure that the Defence is not aware of what
3 happened in the past.
4 Initially, your client, Mr. Borovic, was charged in the same
5 indictment with Mr. Mile Mrksic, Mr. Veselin Sljivancanin, and Mr. Slavko
6 Dokmanovic. You are aware that Mr. Dokmanovic is no longer with us and
7 that the proceedings against Mrksic began, initiated, roughly a year ago.
8 I told you before that I am the Pre-Trial Judge in those proceedings.
9 Now, the proceedings against Mile Mrksic have been undertaken, in
10 one reached the documentation, as if he is the only one accused, and
11 indeed he is the only one accused in those proceedings. But there was
12 never a severance of the three accused from the original indictment. And
13 subsequent to the Initial Appearance, the arraignment of Mr. Mrksic last
14 year, on the 16th of May, if I remember well, 16th of May of last year, in
15 order to make things clear, the chief of court management and support
16 services, in other words, one of the main officers of the registrar, did
17 confirm that the -- all the supporting materials and documents filed in
18 cases IT-95-13 and IT-95-13a, and that is the indictment -- the original
19 indictment and also the indictment that was used for the purposes of the
20 proceedings against Mile Mrksic, shall become part of the trial records in
21 the case of the Prosecutor versus Mile Mrksic, Miroslav Radic, Veselin
22 Sljivancanin, which is henceforth assigned case number IT-95-13-1. So
23 basically for all intents and purposes of law, until there is a decision
24 to the contrary, the case against your client is being considered, at
25 least by me as the Pre-Trial Judge, to be joined with that of Mile Mrksic.
1 Now, as you imagine, it happens that today it is just your client
2 who is present in this courtroom, so I will not say more, because one of
3 the other accused, that's Mile Mrksic, is not present, and he will, of
4 course, be given an opportunity in due course to say what he has to say
5 about this. But there is another matter that was raised by the
6 prosecuting officer, Mr. Wubben, and that is precisely that there is
7 something cooking and almost baked in the proceedings against Mrksic which
8 relates directly to his indictment, because there was a request by the
9 Prosecution to amend the indictment against Mrksic. There were some of
10 the original counts which were dropped, and others which were introduced,
11 and therefore we will have to revisit the whole matter after the Trial
12 Chamber which is dealing with the Mrksic case hands down the decision to
13 which Mr. Wubben has referred.
14 For your information, this matter is being given the utmost
15 attention by my staff, and there is one person, legal officer, in
16 particular that has been working on it and should be in a position to
17 provide me with the opportunity to hand down a decision without much
18 delay. You will, of course, be informed later on of this decision, even
19 though you were not part of the proceedings when this was being debated,
20 and you will be given every opportunity to take the matter up, as it may
21 concern you at a later stage when that applies.
22 Having said that, in other words, I'm confirming to you,
23 Mr. Wubben, and I'm confirming to you, Mr. Borovic, that as far as I'm
24 concerned, the two cases will proceed jointly, unless there is a decision
25 to the contrary.
1 Yes. I saw you trying to attract my attention, Mr. Wubben.
2 MR. WUBBEN: Your Honour, in addition, I have two other short
3 issues to raise. First issue is that we would like to confirm to you that
4 we are ready to transfer the supporting material to Radic himself, if Your
5 Honour agrees so, and it might be the best to hand it over to him to
6 prevent any misunderstandings. That's the first issue.
7 The second issue is a question from the Prosecution side towards
8 Mr. Radic, towards the accused and his counsel, to be specific, we would
9 like to know when the accused allow us, the Prosecution, investigators, to
10 give us a suspect interview. Thank you.
11 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Mr. Radic, I don't know, before I put the
12 question to you, I don't know if you have been informed of this right that
13 the Prosecution has, and whether you have had an opportunity to discuss
14 this with Mr. Borovic.
15 THE ACCUSED: [No interpretation]
16 JUDGE AGIUS: I am not receiving any interpretation.
17 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreters didn't hear him.
18 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Could you please repeat, because the
19 interpreters couldn't hear what you were saying. I think your microphone
20 was not switched on.
21 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I'll do that. Your Honour, I have
22 been informed about everything, but I haven't yet had time to discuss this
23 with my legal counsel.
24 JUDGE AGIUS: So what I will do -- can I take it, Mr. Borovic,
25 that you will discuss this with your client, and then inform Mr. Wubben
2 MR. BOROVIC: [Interpretation] If I may, Your Honour. Let me say a
3 few words regarding the joinder of the case. Of course, I will not state
4 an opinion about that, because we've only just been informed about it, but
5 that will be no problem. Mr. Radic does want me to defend him, but we
6 have been waiting for the formal determination of the registry, so as for
7 us to be able to know when he could be interviewed by the Prosecution, and
8 I would have to be present, as we are familiar with the rules of
9 procedure, and I think that we will be discussing that during today. We
10 are quite ready for the defence. We have been preparing for the hearings
11 for some time. And in cooperation and in coordination with the
12 Prosecution regarding these deadlines, regarding the joinder, and
13 everything else, we can come to a common stand. After this Initial
14 Appearance, Mr. Radic will be informed by the Prosecution when he will be
15 interviewed in the presence of his Defence counsel.
16 JUDGE AGIUS: Does that satisfy you, Mr. Wubben? Is it reasonable
17 enough for you?
18 MR. WUBBEN: Yes. Thank you, Your Honour, and thank you, counsel
19 for Defence.
20 JUDGE AGIUS: And there are rights of the accused related to this
21 kind of interview, which I am sure you are aware of, Mr. Borovic, and
22 which you will intimate to your client, which I don't need to go into now,
23 because they do not form part as such of the process of the Initial
25 Before we adjourn, is there anything else you would like to raise,
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
1 Mr. Borovic, at this stage?
2 MR. BOROVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I think this is quite
3 sufficient for today, this formal discussion that we have had.
4 JUDGE AGIUS: So what remains for me to do is to inform you that,
5 as has been the practice of this Tribunal and as is required by the Rules,
6 I, as the Pre-Trial Judge in this joint case, I will schedule a Status
7 Conference, pursuant to Rule 65 bis (A) in order to facilitate the
8 preparation of the trial. This I will try to do without delay, and you
9 will receive a communication of the exact date fixed for this Status
10 Conference in due course.
11 Before I close, Mr. Radic, is there anything that you would like
12 to say, particularly with regard to your state of health or with regard to
13 the conditions of your detention in the Detention Unit here in The Hague?
14 If you have any concerns or any complaints, please do not hesitate to
15 speak, because I am here to protect you too.
16 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour. For the time
17 being, I'm quite satisfied with the treatment given to me.
18 JUDGE AGIUS: And you do not have any health -- serious health
20 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour.
21 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. You may sit down.
22 Anything else before we wind up, adjourn?
23 I thank you all for your cooperation, and the sitting is
24 adjourned. Thank you.
25 --- Whereupon the Initial Appearance
1 adjourned at 4.25 p.m.