Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 161

1 Monday, 16 February 2004

2 [Further Appearance/Status Conference]

3 [Open session]

4 --- Upon commencing at 4.05 p.m.

5 [The accused entered court]

6 JUDGE AGIUS: Good afternoon, everybody. Madam Registrar, could

7 you call the case, please.

8 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour. Good afternoon, Your Honour.

9 This is case number IT-95-13/1-PT, the Prosecutor versus Mile Mrksic,

10 Miroslav Radic, and Veselin Sljivancanin.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, madam. I'll start with you,

12 Mr. Mrksic. Good afternoon to you.

13 THE ACCUSED MRKSIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon.

14 JUDGE AGIUS: Can you follow the proceedings in a language that

15 you can understand?

16 THE ACCUSED MRKSIC: [Interpretation] Yes, I can. Thank you.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Sljivancanin, good afternoon to you too, and the

18 same question: Can you follow the proceedings in a language that you can

19 understand?

20 THE ACCUSED SLJIVANCANIN: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour, yes,

21 I can follow it in the language I understand.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you. Please take a chair. Mr. Radic, good

23 afternoon to you too. Can you follow the proceedings in a language you

24 understand?

25 THE ACCUSED RADIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honour.

Page 162

1 Yes, I can follow the proceedings, thank you.

2 JUDGE AGIUS: Appearances for the Prosecution.

3 MR. WUBBEN: Good afternoon, Your Honour, my name is Jan Wubben,

4 senior trial attorney. Included in the Prosecution team also are my

5 co-counsel, Ms. Patricia Sellers, Ms. Kristina Carey, Ms. Joanne

6 Richardson, together with Diane Boles, case manager.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you and good afternoon to you all.

8 Appearances for Mr. Mrksic.

9 MR. VASIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honour. The

10 Defence of Mr. Mrksic will be represented by attorney Mr. Vasic, thank

11 you.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: Good afternoon, to you. Appearance for the accused

13 Sljivancanin.

14 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honour. My name

15 is Novak Lukic, I'm Defence counsel for Mr. Sljivancanin.

16 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you and good afternoon to you. And

17 appearances for Mr. Radic.

18 MR. BOROVIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon. I'm Borivoje

19 Borovic, attorney-at-law, and together is my colleague Mira Tapuskovic.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: And good afternoon to you all.

21 You are -- you are aware that there are two things happening this

22 afternoon. One is a Status Conference, and that will come later on in the

23 day. We will start with the further appearance of accused Radic and

24 Sljivancanin.

25 Now, my suggestion is as follows, that instead of having

Page 163

1 Mr. Mrksic walk out and then walk in, he will stay here in the courtroom

2 unless he prefers himself not to be here. But there is also another

3 understanding; that since this is, strictly speaking, none of his

4 business, it may well be that, for example, Mr. Sljivancanin does -- would

5 rather prefer that he pleads or makes a statement with regard to the

6 amended indictment, consolidated indictment, not in the presence of either

7 of the two -- either or both of the two other accused. The same applies

8 to Mr. Radic. He may prefer to make his statement or enter his plea not

9 in the presence of accused Sljivancanin and accused Mrksic. That's an

10 option which I'm leaving open. If any one of you appears not to have,

11 Mr. Sljivancanin, while I am dealing only with you and not with

12 Mr. Mrksic, then you only have to draw my attention to that and Mr. Mrksic

13 will be out of the courtroom and then will come back for the Status

14 Conference.

15 Did I make myself clear? All right.

16 So we are going to start with the further appearance of Mr. Radic

17 and Mr. Sljivancanin, but before I do so, I think I ought to express my

18 gratitude in public to both the Prosecution, Mr. Wubben, and to the

19 members of the Defence -- various Defence teams for your cooperation in

20 enabling me to shift the initial -- the further appearance and the Status

21 Conference from earlier on this afternoon for which time it was scheduled

22 to now. Unfortunately, due to a change in the time schedule under which I

23 was dealing with another case, we did not become aware that there would be

24 a clash with the hearing of this afternoon, and that would have created

25 some problems. They could have been solved, but this is the best solution

Page 164

1 of all, and I am thanking you publicly for your cooperation. These things

2 will not go unnoticed, neither now nor later on.

3 And I shall go straight to the merits of the further appearance

4 and point out for your benefit but also for the benefit of the public and

5 those who are following these proceedings that pursuant to the Trial

6 Chamber's collegial decision on form of consolidated amended indictment,

7 and on the Prosecution's application to amend the indictment of the 23rd

8 of January of 2004, the Prosecution subsequently filed the 9 February 2004

9 consolidated amended indictment.

10 This 9 February 2004 consolidated amended indictment contains four

11 new charges against Mr. Radic and against Mr. Sljivancanin respectively.

12 These four new charges are persecution, extermination, and torture, the

13 latter being charged both as a crime against humanity and as a violation

14 of the laws and customs of war.

15 Rule 50(B) of this Tribunal establishes that if the amended

16 indictment includes new charges and the accused has already appeared

17 before a Trial Chamber in accordance with Rule 62, then a further

18 appearance shall be held as soon as practicable to enable the accused to

19 enter a plea on the new charges. You are also aware of the other

20 accused's right when new charges are added to an already existing

21 indictment as far as -- in other words, his right in particular to seek an

22 adjournment before -- or to enable him or her, as it may be the case, to

23 enter a plea.

24 I understand that in the course of the contacts that have been

25 made, particularly the Rule 65 ter meeting of this morning, there is no

Page 165

1 indication that either of the two accused, that is Sljivancanin and Radic,

2 want an adjournment. Am I right in that?

3 I see Mr. Borivoje Borovic nodding.

4 MR. BOROVIC: [Interpretation] That's right, Your Honour. We will

5 not ask for any adjournment; we can plead today to the amended indictment.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. I also noticed Mr. Lukic nodding too for

7 Mr. Sljivancanin.

8 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I can also confirm, Your Honour, that

9 we will ask for no adjournment, and our client will plead today to the

10 indictment.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Our Rules also -- I thank you both for your

12 practical approach to this matter and for your cooperation.

13 You are also aware that in terms of our Rules, once an indictment

14 is amended, there is always the right of the accused to have that

15 indictment read out in its entirety in public. Of course, the Trial

16 Chamber is prepared to do that if there is an indication in that direction

17 from either of the two accused, but I have been given to understand that

18 in the course of the 65 ter meeting that was held under the Chairmanship

19 of my senior legal officer, Mr. Von Hebel, there was agreement with the

20 two Defence teams for Mr. Radic and Mr. Sljivancanin that there is no need

21 for the Trial Chamber, for me as the Pre-Trial Judge in this -- in this

22 case, to read out the entire amended indictment, the so-called 9 February

23 2004 consolidated amended indictment, and that it will be sufficient if I

24 read out only to the accused the gist of the added charges.

25 Do you agree that this is the case and this is what will happen?

Page 166

1 Again, Mr. Radic -- sorry, Mr. Lukic or -- yes, Mr. Borovic. Go ahead.

2 MR. BOROVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. We had only

3 a brief time to spend with our client before we entered the courtroom. We

4 talked about the amended indictment. The client has comprehended the

5 amendments, so there is no need to read and go through them, we have

6 already completed that part of the work. Thank you.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, Mr. Borovic, and I also thank your

8 client for his cooperation.

9 Mr. Lukic.

10 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, Mr. Sljivancanin, in a

11 brief conversation, also allowed -- told me that there is no need to read

12 the entire indictment. He has knowledge of the indictment, and he will

13 simply plead to it. Thank you.

14 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. I once more thank you, Mr. Lukic, as well,

15 and I also thank you, Mr. Sljivancanin, for your cooperation.

16 Now, I am going to concentrate on you, Mr. Radic, and I want to

17 make sure that you have received the 9 February 2004 consolidated amended

18 indictment in your own language. Is that correct?

19 THE ACCUSED RADIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, that is correct.

20 I have understood everything that is stated in the indictment by the

21 Prosecutor.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: That was going to be my next question, did you

23 understand its contents, but you have already told me that you did.

24 THE ACCUSED RADIC: [Interpretation] Entirely, thank you.

25 JUDGE AGIUS: I also want to make it clear that -- I don't know if

Page 167

1 you have noticed it or not, certainly your lawyer, your Defence counsel

2 has, but the numbering and the order of the counts has been altered

3 vis-a-vis the previous indictment, and that's because of the general

4 exercise that was done in consolidating the three indictments.

5 I have already indicated that there seems to be an agreement, and

6 I got a confirmation of this to read out only to you the new charges

7 contained in the 9 February 2004 consolidated amended indictment. This is

8 precisely what I'm going to do now. As I go through each of these counts,

9 I will be asking you if you want to plead, enter a plea, to that

10 particular count and what kind of a plea you would like to enter. Take

11 your time. This is a matter of great responsibility for every accused. I

12 realise that you have waived your right to have an adjournment on this

13 matter. If you need any time to think about it, let me know and I will

14 give you all the time in the world in terms and within the limits laid

15 down by our Statute and by our Rules and Regulations.

16 Did I make myself clear to you? Okay.

17 THE ACCUSED RADIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: So, Mr. Radic, the first count against you is a

19 charge of persecutions on political, racial, and religious grounds, this

20 being a crime against humanity, punishable under Article 5(h) and Article

21 7(1) as well as Article 7(3) of the Statute of this Tribunal. Are you

22 aware of this?

23 THE ACCUSED RADIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: Do you want to enter a plea to this charge?

25 THE ACCUSED RADIC: [Interpretation] Yes, I do.

Page 168

1 JUDGE AGIUS: How do you plead; guilty or not guilty?

2 THE ACCUSED RADIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, not guilty.

3 JUDGE AGIUS: So for the record, Madam Registrar, accused Radic

4 has pleaded not guilty to the first count, that is the one of persecutions

5 on political, racial, and religious grounds.

6 I now move to the second count. The second count against you is

7 one of extermination, this being also a crime against humanity, punishable

8 under Article 5(b) and Articles 7(1) and 7(3) of our Statute, that is the

9 Statute of this Tribunal. Do you want to enter a plea?

10 THE ACCUSED RADIC: [Interpretation] I do, Your Honour.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: And what is your plea? Do you plead guilty or not

12 guilty?

13 THE ACCUSED RADIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, not guilty.

14 JUDGE AGIUS: So for the record, Madam Registrar, the accused

15 Radic has pleaded not guilty to the second count that -- this being one of

16 extermination.

17 The fifth count. Now, the fifth count against you is one of

18 torture, a crime against humanity, punishable under 5(f), Article 5(f) and

19 again Articles 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of this Tribunal. I take it

20 that you are in a position to enter a plea, and I will move straight away

21 to asking you whether you plead guilty or not guilty to this charge.

22 THE ACCUSED RADIC: [Interpretation] Not guilty, Your Honour.

23 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, Mr. Radic.

24 Madam Registrar, for the record, Mr. Radic has entered a plea of

25 not guilty to the fifth count, this being a charge of torture as being a

Page 169

1 crime against humanity.

2 Then there is the seventh count against you, Mr. Radic, and this

3 is again once more a charge of torture, but this time you're being charged

4 with torture as being a -- in violation of the laws or customs of war as

5 recognised by Common Article 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949,

6 punishable under Article 3, and Articles 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of

7 this Tribunal. How do you plead to this seventh count?

8 THE ACCUSED RADIC: [Interpretation] Not guilty, Your Honour.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you.

10 Madam Registrar, for the record, Mr. Radic has entered a plea of

11 not guilty with regard to the seventh count.

12 So, Mr. Radic, please sit down. Thank you.

13 And again I want to make sure, Madam Registrar, that you have

14 noted that Mr. Radic has pleaded not guilty to counts 1, 2, 5, and 7 of

15 the 9 February 2004 consolidated amended indictment. Madam Registrar?

16 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you.

18 Now, Colonel Sljivancanin. This is more or less going to be a

19 repetition of the same procedure, and so I want to make sure first and

20 foremost that you have received the indictment in your own language or in

21 a language that you understand. When I say "the indictment," it's the 9

22 February 2004 consolidated amended indictment.

23 THE ACCUSED SLJIVANCANIN: [Interpretation] I have received it, I

24 read it, and I understood its content.

25 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. So I skip the second question, which

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Page 171

1 was precisely did you understand its contents.

2 I am also making you aware, just as I did with Mr. Radic, that the

3 sequence, the number and the order of the various charges in the

4 consolidated amended indictment has changed, but I am sure that you are

5 aware of this. If not, I will explain to you how the sequence -- how the

6 order of the various counts has changed.

7 THE ACCUSED SLJIVANCANIN: [Interpretation] I have talked to my

8 Defence counsel, and he has informed me about that. We spoke for some

9 half an hour or so.

10 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. So now I'm going to follow the same procedure.

11 I am going to read out to you, count by count, the new added charges

12 against you, and then I will ask you how you would like to plea. If you

13 are not prepared to plea today, please make that known to me, and we will

14 protect your rights and will give you enough time to think about it, and

15 then you will enter your plea later on.

16 The first count against you in terms of the 9 February 2004

17 consolidated amended indictment is one of persecutions on political,

18 racial, and religious grounds, this being a crime against humanity, which

19 is punishable under Article 5(h) and Articles 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute

20 of this Tribunal. How do you plead to this first count of persecution;

21 guilty or not guilty?

22 THE ACCUSED SLJIVANCANIN: [Interpretation] Not guilty, Your

23 Honour.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, Mr. Sljivancanin, and that goes on the

25 record, Madam Registrar.

Page 172

1 The second count against you is one of extermination, a crime

2 against humanity, punishable under Article 5(b) and Articles 7(1) and 7(3)

3 of the Statute of this Tribunal. How do you plead to this charge?

4 THE ACCUSED SLJIVANCANIN: [Interpretation] Not guilty.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, Mr. Sljivancanin. The fifth count

6 against you is one of torture, this being a crime against humanity,

7 punishable under Article 5(f) and Articles 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of

8 the Tribunal. How do you plead to this added count; guilty or not guilty?

9 THE ACCUSED SLJIVANCANIN: [Interpretation] Not guilty to this

10 count as well.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, Mr. Sljivancanin. And the seventh

12 count against you is again one of torture, however this time it's being

13 charged as a violation of the laws or customs of war recognised by Common

14 Article 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, punishable under

15 Article 3 and Article 7(1) and 7(3) of our Statute. How do you plead to

16 this count; guilty or not guilty?

17 THE ACCUSED SLJIVANCANIN: [Interpretation] Not guilty.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. You may sit down, Colonel

19 Sljivancanin.

20 And I want to make sure that Madam Registrar has noted down for

21 the record that Mr. Sljivancanin has pleaded not guilty to counts 1, 2, 5,

22 and 7 of the 9 February 2004 consolidated amended indictment.

23 You could have chosen a shorter title. I have to repeat this

24 every time.

25 We are now going to convert ourselves into a Status Conference.

Page 173

1 The further appearance of Mr. Sljivancanin and Mr. Radic is over unless

2 there is anything you would like to draw my attention to. There is none.

3 So we are now going to give a start to the Status Conference.

4 Again, for the record, I wish to remind everyone that the last

5 Status Conference for the three accused, Mrksic, Radic, and Sljivancanin,

6 was held way back on the 22nd of October of 2003. Under Rule 65 bis of

7 our Rules and Regulations, the Trial Chamber is required to hold a Status

8 Conference within 120 days after the previous Status Conference, after the

9 last Status Conference, and this is being precisely held within that time

10 limit laid down or provided for in our Rules.

11 The purpose of the Status Conference, of the periodical Status

12 Conferences, is twofold mainly; the first being to organise exchanges

13 between the parties with a view to ensuring an expeditious preparation for

14 trial. The second is to give an opportunity to the accused to raise any

15 issue related to the mental and physical condition. That includes also

16 the conditions of detention, as per the practice of this Tribunal.

17 I wish also to state here, again this is for public consumption

18 and not because I would imagine that you have forgotten what happened this

19 morning, that in preparation for this Status Conference a meeting pursuant

20 to Rule 65 ter was held between the parties and the senior -- the

21 representatives of the parties of the accused and my Senior Legal Officer

22 today at 9.30, which I understand was very constructive and very fruitful,

23 and I wish to thank you both Prosecution and the three Defence teams for

24 your cooperation.

25 The issues raised therein which do not require a decision from the

Page 174

1 Pre-Trial Judge need not be raised again during this Status Conference

2 unless you have reason not -- you have reason to disagree. In other

3 words, you will have every opportunity to raise again some issues that

4 were debated there which need not be decided if you feel there is the

5 need, but otherwise, please refrain from raising the same matters again.

6 And I start with outstanding motions. I start with you,

7 Mr. Mrksic. I start with you. You needn't stand up. You may remain

8 seated.

9 As far as I am aware, there is a Defence motion for review of the

10 Registrar's decision of the 25th of September, 2002, filed by your

11 lawyers, denying payment of expenses related to pre-trial investigative

12 work. Now, this is an old story, you remember, and it had already started

13 when Mr. Sljivancanin, Mr. Radic, had not yet arrived here in The Hague.

14 We had put it in the deep freeze for some time, but it has been warmed up,

15 resurrected, and we will soon be handing down our decision. It has been

16 more or less prepared, and it's in the process of cooking, and as soon as

17 it is ready, we will let you have it. It should not take a long time. We

18 have worked on it, we have taken into account every single document and

19 the details of the documents that we received, and we should be able to

20 hand down the decision pretty soon. But that's not a decision that I will

21 take myself, it's a combined effort of the three Judges forming --

22 constituting Trial Chamber II. In other words, the other two Judges have

23 to come back to me and we need to discuss maybe a little bit further.

24 There is another motion on -- filed by you or on your behalf,

25 Mr. Mrksic, and that is what I would rather call Defence request in - my

Page 175

1 country we would say humble request - on the level of the case which has

2 been assigned by the Registrar. Here, I must confess, we have not yet

3 reached an advanced stage in our deliberations, but it will receive its

4 utmost attention. As soon as we are ready with the other motion, we will

5 move to deal with this one.

6 With regard to these two motions, Mr. Vasic, do you have anything

7 to state?

8 MR. VASIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour, for the

9 information you have provided us with. We expect our two motions to

10 receive a decision because they will affect our ability for defending our

11 client, and we hope that it will be along the lines of what you said today

12 and according to those guidelines. So I thank you for that. A decision

13 is vital in view of the work we have to do, and as I expound in my motion,

14 this will inquire -- require additional expenses, and so we will need to

15 get the monies we have asked for. Thank you.

16 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. I am not addressing you, Mr. Wubben,

17 because I think this is at the moment more of the accused's concern rather

18 than yours. You will only be interested in reading the decision at a

19 later stage.

20 MR. WUBBEN: That is correct, Your Honour. We don't take a

21 position.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: Exactly. I'm not asking for submissions, I'm just

23 asking for comments on what I stated.

24 Then, Mr. Vasic, on the 17th of October of last year, you filed an

25 additional request for a review of the Registrar's decision granting

Page 176

1 additional allotment of 350 working hours at the counsel rate and 1.500

2 hours -- 15.000 hours, I may stand corrected here, the supporting staff

3 rate to your Defence team. You requested -- or you prayed this Trial

4 Chamber to review the Registrar's decision and you qualify the case of

5 Mile Mrksic at that level of complexity. This is precisely the motion I

6 referred to regarding the level of the case.

7 Before we conclude on this matter, I wanted to make sure, has

8 there been any further contacts between you and the Registrar with regard

9 to the level of the case and the number of hours and rates fixed by the --

10 by the Registrar? And I'm asking you because later on, I told you

11 already, that we would have started dealing with this as soon as we would

12 have disposed of the previous motion. But one of the things I would have

13 certainly asked is whether there has been any discussions or negotiations

14 since the 17th of October between you and the Registrar on this matter.

15 MR. VASIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. I should like

16 to inform you that the Defence did request categorisation for this trial,

17 and the Registrar has not made a decision, but it has given us the

18 allotment of hours that you yourself mentioned. So this number of hours

19 is not in conformity with the categorisation of the case itself, and we

20 consider as the case stands now would merit category 2, and we think that

21 the Vukovar case, a case which refers to Vukovar, cannot be deemed to be

22 the simplest of cases, especially in view of the media exploitation of

23 that case and by the Prosecution in the bygone period. I apologise, yes?

24 So I consider that the Registrar should have made a decision to

25 class the case into group 2 and not to allot a lesser number of hours than

Page 177

1 we would otherwise receive. This is a very important matter because we

2 need to do a lot of work, and I set it out, the work we need to do, in my

3 request and motion.

4 Having received an answer from the Registrar and having contacted

5 the Trial Chamber, I had no further contacts with the Registrar. I did

6 not initiate such contacts, nor did the Registrar for his part. Thank

7 you.

8 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. I just wanted to make sure of that, because

9 if there have been further negotiations following the filing of that

10 motion, then I want to make it clear that we ought to be put into the

11 picture, even if they are still pending.

12 Okay. Thank you, Mr. Vasic.

13 According to my records, these are the only two outstanding

14 matters, outstanding motions that your client has. Are you aware of

15 anything else beyond that?

16 MR. VASIC: [Interpretation] No. Thank you, Your Honour. Those

17 were the only two requests.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Mr. Borovic, I'm now going to address your

19 client's outstanding motions according to my records; and according to my

20 records he has only got one outstanding motion, that is the one filed on

21 the 27th of October of last year relating to the Registrar's decision of

22 20 days earlier, of the 7th October.

23 On the 27th October, you filed a request to the Trial Chamber

24 praying that we review the Registrar's decision which I mentioned to you,

25 which, inter alia, states that the accused should bear the costs

Page 178

1 associated with 223 hours of investigative and legal assistance work at

2 the pre-trial stage. You also requested the Trial Chamber to rule that

3 the cost of 223 hours of investigative work at the pre-trial stage be

4 borne by the Tribunal.

5 I suppose -- am I going too fast for the interpreters? A bit. A

6 bit. So I will try to slow down.

7 You are definitely aware that by order of the Trial Chamber, the

8 Registry, or the Registrar, filed comments and associated material on the

9 12th of January of this year. The Registrar is requesting the Trial

10 Chamber to deny your client's motion and confirm the Registrar's decision

11 on partial indigence of the accused. We gave you an opportunity to

12 respond to this, and you responded on the 26th of January of 2004,

13 requesting the Trial Chamber to quash the Registrar's decision.

14 Now, this is still pending, and to be honest with you, we worked

15 first on Mr. Mrksic's motion where we thought of establishing one or more

16 principles that should regulate the matter, and then we will eventually

17 follow up with a decision in your client's case.

18 Do you wish to state anything in this regard? Not further

19 submissions, just remarks on what I said.

20 MR. BOROVIC: [Interpretation] Well, Your Honour, we have made our

21 request and we have provided a comment and response to the one made by the

22 Registrar, but my colleague, Mrs. Mira Tapuskovic, will give you

23 additional information.

24 MS. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. We did

25 not wish to abuse your time when you --

Page 179

1 JUDGE AGIUS: You have all the time --

2 MS. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] I wasn't thinking during this

3 particular Status Conference, but thank you for that anyway. But in

4 writing our comments and responding to the comments of the Registrar and

5 following your guidelines contained in the decision, we did try to adhere

6 strictly to the instructions that were given and to provide you with the

7 answers that you asked for.

8 As you have just noted yourself, Your Honour, it was the intention

9 of the Trial Chamber to deal with Mrksic's request first, and as we can

10 say, there are two Mrksic requests that are pending. We consider that at

11 this point in time there is nothing for us to add to the request already

12 made but that it should take its course, and the Trial Chamber will pay

13 sufficient care and attention and time to the response by the Registrar

14 and our own comments as well. Thank you.

15 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, Madam Tapuskovic. As I said, this will

16 be dealt with in due course. As you are aware, each case has its own

17 characteristics. There are principles of law and procedure that are

18 applicable to the three accused, but then of course what will be the

19 outcome of each and every application, motion, very much depends on

20 everything that one needs to throw in the basket when we start making our

21 deliberations.

22 Am I correct, Mr. Borovic, in stating that there are no further

23 motions pending from your client, or do you agree to that?

24 MR. BOROVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. You're

25 quite right; no further motions.

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Page 181

1 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you. Now, Colonel Sljivancanin, until

2 yesterday or until early this morning, there was nothing pending from you,

3 no outstanding motions, but there is one now, I understand.

4 Mr. Lukic, could you just describe to the Trial Chamber what this

5 is all about.

6 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. I'll just

7 briefly tell you what it is about. So far I have followed the

8 correspondence between the Registrar and Mr. Radic's Defence with respect

9 to the number of hours allotted by the Registrar or, rather, the Registrar

10 has said that it will not finance this number of hours for the Radic

11 Defence. And also we looked at the appointment for permanent Defence

12 counsels, I myself and Mr. Bulatovic as the co-counsel, and the Registrar

13 in that respect made a similar decision with respect to the expenses

14 involving Mr. Sljivancanin. The Registrar found that there were certain

15 material resources, if I can use that term, which would be able to cover

16 part of the Defence of Mr. Sljivancanin.

17 In my opinion, this is a position of principle on the part of the

18 Registrar with -- and his approach to the material resources and property

19 of the family of the accused, and it is a matter of principle on the part

20 of the Defence team, and it is similar to the correspondence I saw in

21 Mr. Radic's case with respect to the material resources of the family and

22 their possibility to finance part of the Defence for the accused.

23 So that was the reason why we filed our motion and made our

24 request based on a similar principle as was resorted to by the Radic

25 Defence. And I'm sure this Trial Chamber will once again find itself

Page 182

1 having to make a decision which will cover both, that is to say the

2 Registrar's attitude and their duty to pay for the Defence counsels of the

3 accused.

4 So that is basically what our request entails. And we have also

5 attended correspondence between the Registrar and ourselves and the

6 Registrar and Mr. Radic. Of course, the situation is specific in the case

7 of Mr. Sljivancanin's family, and we set that out in our own motion, and

8 that is the substance of our own request.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you, Mr. Lukic. As you can imagine, I have

10 not had a copy of your motion made available. I will go through it

11 adequately as soon as it is forwarded to me, and I will deal with it

12 accordingly. But again, this matter will receive all the adequate

13 attention, and again may I point out that each case is different, has its

14 own characteristics, and we are precisely dealing not just with principles

15 but also matters over which the Registrar seems to have quite a

16 discretion.

17 And there are no other motions pending from Colonel Sljivancanin?

18 That's correct?

19 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] That is correct. There are no other

20 motions at this stage from Mr. Sljivancanin.

21 JUDGE AGIUS: Right. And talking of motions, I am going to

22 mention something which is of paramount importance because it also

23 involves deadlines, making it clear that I'm not prepared to go beyond

24 deadlines once they are stipulated by the Rules and Regulations.

25 Now, the first statement that I want to make refers to all the

Page 183

1 three accused, and you have no later than the 8th March of this year to

2 file preliminary motions pursuant to Rule 72 in respect of the new aspects

3 that emerge out of the 9 February 2004 consolidated amended indictment.

4 Please stick to this deadline. Don't come to me one day late, because

5 your request will not be entertained unless there is serious

6 justification.

7 Yes, Mr. Borovic.

8 MR. BOROVIC: [Interpretation] The Defence of Miroslav Radic

9 received the indictment on the 12th of February, and the Registrar

10 submitted it on the 6th of February, that is to say with a six-day delay,

11 and those six days would have meant a great deal to us. So that by Court

12 decision we could get 30 days for our motion to this consolidated amended

13 indictment. So that would be our request, because we have received very

14 extensive material that we have to study along with the document itself.

15 Thank you.

16 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Mr. Vasic and Mr. Lukic, do you want to join

17 in Mr. Borovic's request?

18 MR. VASIC: [Interpretation] Listening to Mr. Borovic, the Defence

19 teams did indeed receive the indictment with a six-day delay, along with a

20 lot of supporting material which the OTP provided us following

21 instructions from the Trial Chamber, and this supporting material, as far

22 as I can see, amounts to about 250 pages, and perhaps my colleague

23 Mr. Borovic's request is justified in view of the fact that we have to

24 study all that material to see whether there is any scope for any motions,

25 preliminary motions pursuant to Rule 82. Thank you.

Page 184

1 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Lukic.

2 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I join in the proposal

3 made by Mr. Borovic in full, and let me tell you that I received the

4 indictment on the 11th of February, one day before him, but that doesn't

5 change matters. This is the supporting material that I'm holding in my

6 hand now, the bulk of it, and which I have to look through with my client

7 first of all. So you must bear in mind the fact that we're not always in

8 The Hague. So we have to look through the material with our clients and

9 then receive instructions from our clients with respect to writing motions

10 or anything like that. So we think that five or six additional days would

11 mean a great deal to us and I don't think it would be a hindrance to the

12 other side in the proceedings. Thank you.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Wubben, do you have any objection at all that

14 the time limit be extended from the 8th March to the 12th March?

15 MR. WUBBEN: No, Your Honour. There was indeed a kind of delay so

16 the argumentation of this limited time of extension is reasonable. I have

17 no objection.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: Does anybody have a calendar here, because I was not

19 expecting this, obviously, and I want to know what day of the week is the

20 12th of March.

21 MR. WUBBEN: Your Honour, that's a Friday.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: Would that be agreeable to you? Yes. I see the

23 three counsel nodding. So I go back to what I stated earlier. The time

24 limit which you will have for the filing of preliminary motions pursuant

25 to Rule 72 will expire on the 8th -- on the 12th of March, 2004, there

Page 185

1 being no objection on the part of the Prosecutor. And I wish to thank

2 you, Mr. Wubben, on behalf of the Prosecutor, for accepting this and

3 showing again cooperation with this Trial Chamber.

4 And we move to disclosures, and we have various kinds of

5 disclosures to deal with. I will deal first with disclosures under Rule

6 66(A)(i). And I am informed that counsel for the accused have, the three

7 of them, agreed that this material has been disclosed to each one of them.

8 This actually is in confirmation of what was stated during the previous

9 status conference. I take it that the situation has not changed and that,

10 therefore, all disclosures under this Rule 66(A)(i) have been carried out.

11 Correct?

12 And then we have a slightly more complicated matter which I hope

13 will not require the intervention of myself as Pre-Trial Judge or of the

14 Trial Chamber. We're talking of Rule 66(A)(ii) statements.

15 There is a partially confidential Prosecution's first report

16 concerning disclosure which was filed on the 1st of August, 2003, in which

17 -- or by means of which the Trial Chamber was -- received confidential

18 attachment A, namely the materials disclosed to Defence counsel for Mrksic

19 and Radic and to also Colonel Sljivancanin at the time he was

20 unrepresented, you will remember, pursuant to the Rule I mentioned

21 earlier. That's 66(A)(ii).

22 I am informed by my staff who were present for the 65 ter meeting

23 that the Prosecution, it seems, has since then assured counsel for Colonel

24 Sljivancanin that the material which he received from his client was the

25 same that had been disclosed pursuant to Rules 66 and 68 to counsel of the

Page 186

1 other two accused. Is that correct, Mr. Borovic -- Mr. Lukic? Sorry.

2 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes, that is correct, Your Honour.

3 JUDGE AGIUS: Now, at the last Status Conference - that is October

4 of last year - Mr. Wubben, you had stated or announced that the

5 Prosecution would continue its disclosure of these statements, that is

6 under Rule 66(A)(ii), at the pace of the searches carried out by its

7 evidence unit. How far have we proceeded along this path?

8 MR. WUBBEN: Your Honour, Ms. Kristina Carey will give you

9 additional information, but I might start with the conference this

10 morning, 65 ter conference, at which Mr. Vasic underlined that so far only

11 a number of five statements had been given. We couldn't check that during

12 the Status Conference, but afterwards we checked this out and Ms. Kristina

13 Carey will further inform you of the status of that.

14 JUDGE AGIUS: Ms. Carey, please. Thank you, Mr. Wubben.

15 MS. CAREY: Thank you, Your Honour. At this point the Prosecution

16 is continuing. The combination of what we have turned over in, I believe,

17 three different batches of supporting materials in addition to what we

18 sent in the July package, we have turned over the ICTY statements and as

19 much material as could be searched from the database on our own behalf or

20 from prior trials of 23 witnesses comprised of our still ongoing witness

21 list. It is anticipated that we will ultimately have a witness list that

22 is approximately between 60 and 80 witnesses, so that constitutes

23 somewhere between a third and a quarter of our total possible witnesses.

24 We are, as we discussed in the 65 ter conference, have still,

25 despite our efforts, not been prioritised with the Internet search unit,

Page 187

1 but we are undertaking at this point, as we have assured counsel, that we

2 are going to at least deal quickly with the issue of turning over ICTY

3 statements and of course dealing with any issues of protection from prior

4 Trial Chambers and any protective measures that our witnesses may request.

5 So that is the progress that we have made to date, sir.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, Ms. Carey.

7 Do you have any comments? Starting with Mr. Vasic.

8 MR. VASIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. Today during

9 our 65 ter conference, we discussed this matter at length with our learned

10 friends. The Defence gave its position, namely that the disclosure under

11 this Rule is very important for timely preparation of the Defence before

12 the beginning of the trial. I have a lot of understanding for the

13 problems encountered by my learned friends. There was even some

14 discussion of aiding them by giving them a certain deadline to disclose

15 this material, which would again update the requests regarding the OTP.

16 However, my learned friends said that they will believe they would be able

17 to abide by the deadlines on their own and that that would further

18 facilitate the disclosure under this Rule 66.

19 The Defence is grateful to our learned friends from the OTP, and

20 if there should be any need, we would ask for your assistance. Thank you.

21 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Borovic.

22 MR. BOROVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you. I think that there are

23 two minor problems. The first one is with respect to Rule 66(A)(ii). We

24 received a small number of statements concerning the issues we have here

25 in this trial. The witness statements we received will not be of much

Page 188

1 assistance to us in preparing our defence. The 60 to 80 witnesses which

2 the OTP intends to call to testify, apparently only a small number would

3 be brought here to testify, which means that they did not want to burden

4 the Defence with all that material. We think, with all due respect to the

5 OTP, that it is in their ability to do a little bit more to assist Defence

6 in this matter.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Lukic. Thank you, Mr. Borovic.

8 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I do not want to repeat what I said at

9 the 65 ter conference, but what I think is of vital importance here is to

10 enable the Defence to prepare itself in a timely manner for the trial.

11 What concerns me is that we can face the possible beginning of the trial

12 in a situation where all the teams are overburdened with work, writing

13 their pre-trial briefs, scheduling Pre-Trial Conferences, and so on, and

14 so that we, Defence counsel who have only two-member teams, unlike the

15 OTP, we must be able to timely and efficiently prepare for the trial. If

16 we should receive material shortly before the trial begins, we will have

17 no equality of arms in the trial; we will not be able to prepare ourselves

18 adequately for all witnesses. The task of the OTP is to, of course,

19 prepare their witnesses and then inform the Defence about their witnesses.

20 Should we fail to receive that material in a timely manner, then we will

21 not be able to do our job.

22 The OTP told us that they do not want to burden us with statements

23 of witnesses which might not come here to testify, whereas we believe that

24 it would be important for us to receive everything so that we can make an

25 assessment ourselves and see what we need to do in order to prepare.

Page 189

1 JUDGE AGIUS: Right. Thank you, Mr. Lukic.

2 The position as I see it is that, for the time being, as I see it,

3 I have no reason to entertain any doubts that the present situation is in

4 any way prejudicial to any of the three accused. I can assure you that

5 this Trial Chamber will leave no stone unturned in ensuring that there is

6 no disparity between the Prosecution and the Defence when it comes to

7 exact resources because the resources are always different with regard to

8 arms, as some of us prefer to refer to it.

9 I think the best way to do is to exhort you, Mr. Wubben, to

10 accelerate this process of disclosure under 66(A)(ii). Accelerate it as

11 much as possible. And I will leave it to the next Status Conference, when

12 we will still be pretty far from the date of the trial, to make an

13 assessment of the situation as it will obtain then, and if it is necessary

14 at that point in time for the Trial Chamber to fix a time limit within

15 which to carry out this obligation under Rule 66(A)(ii), then we will --

16 we will not hesitate to do it. That might also not be the case, as

17 experience in other cases has taught me. I mean, sometimes it's not

18 always that possible for the Prosecution to abide by -- by this rule to

19 the letter at the pre-trial stage or at the early stages of the pre-trial

20 stage, and I'm sure that you are also well experienced to know exactly

21 what I mean. But I will be keeping a watchful eye, I or the Judge who

22 will succeed me as Pre-Trial Judge in this case, and that will, of course,

23 be a subject matter that will certainly come up in the next agenda for the

24 next Status Conference which will be held according to the Rules. Yes.

25 Now I come to disclosure under Rule 68, which as you know has been

Page 190












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Page 191

1 the subject of an amendment by the Plenary, effective 24th December of

2 last year. I'm referring to the Prosecution's obligation to disclose

3 exculpatory and other relevant material.

4 Just for the benefit of the public who is perhaps not aware as we

5 certainly are of the nature of the amendment to this Rule, I just -- will

6 just give a very brief explanation. The amended Rule 68 provides, inter

7 alia, that the Prosecution shall, as soon as practicable, disclose to the

8 Defence any material which in the actual knowledge of the Prosecutor may

9 suggest the innocence or mitigate the guilt of the accused or affect the

10 credibility of Prosecution evidence. And secondly, the Prosecution shall

11 make available to the Defence in electronic form collections of relevant

12 material held by it together with appropriate computer software with which

13 the Defence can search such collections electronically.

14 I will be asking the three of you for your comments, as well as

15 you, Mr. Wubben, your remarks on this particular procedure. What I can

16 state here is what I know, and that refers to the partially confidential

17 Prosecution first report concerning disclosure, which was filed last year

18 on the 1st of August just before we broke for the summer recess; and then

19 the Prosecution's second report concerning disclosure filed practically a

20 month later, on the 4th of September, 2003; and again the partially

21 confidential Prosecution third report concerning disclosure which is dated

22 21st of October, 2003, which taken together detail the material disclosed

23 pursuant to Rule 68 to the three accused. That was the position as it

24 obtained under the old Rule.

25 Has the new Rule changed anything? So I would start with you,

Page 192

1 Mr. Wubben. Is there any other material under Rule 68, as amended, that

2 you need to disclose?

3 MR. WUBBEN: I will request Ms. Kristina Carey to give you

4 additional information.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Ms. Carey.

6 MS. CAREY: At this point my understanding is that the Defence

7 counsel has in the interim been made available in electronic form a

8 substantial number of documents, the exact number of which I am not

9 certain of, by the OTP in a searchable, I believe computer form, either --

10 I believe they have the computer system and searching application, and I

11 understand that that will continue to be updated. At this point, we do

12 not -- we do not have -- we will continue with our obligation to disclose

13 any materials that come to our -- to our attention in the course of our

14 work and make those available as we find them.

15 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Mr. Vasic, do you have any comments on this

16 matter and also on the Prosecutor's statement?

17 MR. VASIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. You have

18 probably been informed about our discussions on this matter during 65 ter

19 conference. The Defence believes that disclosure under Rule 68 could

20 proceed faster and be more complete, especially because the change of

21 rules indicates that the OTP is aware of all the facts that could lead to

22 the acquittal of the -- of our client, of the accused, or mitigating his

23 situation.

24 The Defence can contribute little to this, but we believe that the

25 main key is in the hands of the OTP when it comes to the application of

Page 193

1 this rule, because they have everything at their disposal.

2 As for the e-mail communication, my friend from the OTP stated the

3 situation correctly. Mrs. Tapuskovic also spoke about that, and I think

4 that she can do it now in this Status Conference like she did it this

5 morning so that I do not cover the same topic as she will.

6 MS. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Vasic. I would

7 like to inform my learned friends from the OTP -- to remind them, rather,

8 that we received on three occasions material under Rule 68. That was on

9 the 25th of July last year, on the 3rd of September last year, and during

10 our last 65 ter conference in October of last year, and since then we have

11 received nothing under that Rule. Following that, Rule 68 was changed in

12 December of last year.

13 All Defence teams working here at the Tribunal were informed about

14 the possibility to carry out an electronic search of documents. I

15 immediately found everything that our Defence team needed in order to have

16 access to such documents. However, we immediately faced certain problems,

17 namely that a large portion of the database is not accessible to us. We

18 have been told that only 80 per cent of the database can be searched

19 electronically, and the search process takes a long time, is not clear at

20 all, and since all Defence teams, providing they fulfil certain criteria,

21 have access to that database, that means that only material which is not

22 confidential is available through the database, which means that that puts

23 certain limitations on the Defence teams.

24 However, since this is a new system which is still currently being

25 developed here at the Tribunal, we will be flexible and patient in the

Page 194

1 hope that the system will be upgraded so that all the requirements of the

2 Defence teams are met. We hope that we will be able to locate all of the

3 material under Rule 68 using the electronic search mechanisms. Thank you.

4 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. I enjoin you, Mr. Wubben, particularly to the

5 complaints that Ms. Tapuskovic has raised about the adequacy of the

6 system, to raise these matters with your superiors, because this tends to

7 get fundamental in each and every case.

8 On the other hand, Mr. Vasic, Mr. Borovic, Mr. Lukic,

9 Ms. Tapuskovic, I do enjoin you to read carefully Rule 68. I appreciate

10 your readiness to be patient. I strongly advise you to be patient,

11 because I certainly wouldn't like to see Rule 68 being read and applied by

12 the Prosecution as one way of loading you with all the material that they

13 have laid their hands on irrespective of whether it's really material or

14 not. I think one has to be practical and wise. Allow the Prosecution to

15 take a considered decision as to what needs to be disclosed, particularly

16 under the second part of Rule 68, because with regard to exculpatory

17 material, I think that's pretty clear. But with regard to the rest, I

18 would rather not have cabbages and Kings put together in one bag and try

19 to see if I'm clever enough to distinguish one from the other, which

20 sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's not, but it certainly will entail a

21 lot - a lot - a lot of work.

22 So the understanding is as follows: That this is an ongoing

23 exercise. We ought to draw a distinction between exculpatory material

24 proper, and the rest of the material that now the amended Rule 68 deals

25 with, differently from what the situation was before. All right.

Page 195

1 I leave it entirely up to you, Mr. Wubben, and your team, of

2 course, and you will report back to the Trial Chamber at the next Status

3 Conference.

4 Date for trial. Until a couple of months ago, I had hoped that

5 this trial would be able to start relatively soon, but things have

6 changed. We are giving it our utmost attention, but the estimate that we

7 had that this trial will start around about the end of summer or beginning

8 of summer of 2004 is no longer valid. What I can assure you of is that

9 every effort will be made not to delay it unduly, but there are other

10 cases that have matured and that were introduced before and have matured

11 for trial, and obviously those take precedence unless there is serious

12 reason to change the pattern which is applied by this Tribunal.

13 Agreed facts. I'm not quite sure whether it's still early for me

14 to enjoin the Defence teams and the Prosecution to sit down together and

15 see if there are agreed facts to submit to the Trial Chamber in terms or

16 pursuant to Rule 65 ter (H). If there are and you are in a position to

17 start the exercise, please do so. If you prefer to wait and if you think

18 it's more opportune to wait, then obviously I am in your hands and I am

19 prepared to wait too, but don't do like several other lawyers in other

20 cases, try to run away from this important provision that our Rules

21 establish. It can be extremely useful, extremely economical, and I am

22 pretty sure you realise that when there is such cooperation also in the

23 course of the proceedings, the Trial Chamber never fails to take this or

24 these similar matters in consideration however much important they may or

25 however relevant they may be.

Page 196

1 Before we move to the final part of the Status Conference, are

2 there any matters that either of the parties, any of the parties would

3 like to raise? And then of course I will refer the same question to you,

4 Mr. Wubben, but I was going to start with you straight away. Are there

5 any matters you would like to raise?

6 MR. WUBBEN: No thank you, Your Honour.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Vasic for accused Mrksic.

8 MR. VASIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. I have no new

9 matters to raise. I would simply like to thank you, Your Honour, for your

10 timely response and understanding of the family circumstances of our

11 client and enabling him to spend time with his family during this

12 difficult time. Once again, thank you.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. I thank you, and understand that, and you have

14 my condolences, as well as the Presiding Judge.

15 Mr. Borovic, do you have any further matter to raise?

16 MR. BOROVIC: [Interpretation] I would simply like to thank you for

17 accepting to extend the deadline. I have no new matters to raise. Thank

18 you.

19 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you, Mr. Borovic. Mr. Lukic.

20 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] No new matters. Thank you again for

21 extending the deadline.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you all.

23 I turn now to Mr. Mrksic. You're familiar with this because this

24 is how we end each and every Status Conference that we have. I am

25 duty-bound under the Rules to inquire of you whether you wish to raise any

Page 197

1 matter which is related to your state of health or your condition of

2 detention. Let's take state of health. Do you have any problems that you

3 need to make the Trial Chamber aware of that in your considered opinion

4 need our intervention?

5 THE ACCUSED MRKSIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, my health

6 problems remain what they were before. There's no deterioration, so I can

7 continue to follow the proceedings. The doctor's attitude is good. As

8 applies to everybody else at the Detention Unit, I have no complaints, but

9 now that I have this opportunity, I would like, on behalf of myself and my

10 family and friends and everybody else attending the funeral, thank you for

11 your understanding. Nobody expected that I would be allowed to attend,

12 and that had a very positive response among the people. Thank you.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you, Mr. Mrksic. With regard to your state --

14 one moment. I haven't finished. With regard to your condition of

15 detention, are there any matters you would like to raise? Are you being

16 treated well at the Detention Unit? Any complaints with regard to food or

17 conditions? None.

18 THE ACCUSED MRKSIC: [Interpretation]. No. I have no complaints.

19 I have been a soldier all my life, so these circumstances are quite normal

20 for me except that this is a Detention Unit. Everything else is bearable.

21 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you, Mr. Mrksic. Colonel Sljivancanin. The

22 same two questions to you. Let's take them one by one. Would you like to

23 raise any matter related to your state of health?

24 THE ACCUSED SLJIVANCANIN: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I have no

25 health complaints.

Page 198

1 JUDGE AGIUS: And with regard to your conditions of detention?

2 THE ACCUSED SLJIVANCANIN: [Interpretation] Everybody's attitude at

3 the Detention Unit is fine.

4 THE INTERPRETER: The accused's microphone is off.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: It is on, but I think he is too tall. That's the

6 problem.

7 THE ACCUSED SLJIVANCANIN: [Interpretation] As I've said, the

8 personnel at the Detention Unit has a proper attitude, and I have no

9 complaints.

10 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, Colonel. You may sit down.

11 Finally Mr. Radic. I address the same two questions to you.

12 First, do you -- would you like to raise any matter related to your state

13 of health?

14 THE ACCUSED RADIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, this morning I

15 went to see the doctor taking care of us as I have certain problems with

16 my back. I've asked for some technical assistance. The doctor said that

17 he would look into it. I hope the result would be positive. As far as

18 everything else is concerned, I'm fully satisfied with the treatment given

19 to us at the Detention Unit.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: And is this the first time that you've had this

21 complaint?

22 THE ACCUSED RADIC: [Interpretation] No. I came with that

23 condition. I've simply asked for additional assistance, and the doctor

24 understood this, said that he would look into this, and I hope to receive

25 a reply soon.

Page 199

1 JUDGE AGIUS: Up until now each time you asked for medical

2 attention and treatment, did you receive it and did you receive it

3 promptly?

4 THE ACCUSED RADIC: [Interpretation] Yes. Everything was in order.

5 I'm simply mentioning this because this very morning I asked for certain

6 technical equipment which would facilitate my situation at the Detention

7 Unit. This is the only reason I brought this up.

8 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay, Mr. Radic. Should you have reason to believe

9 that I should be made aware of further developments in this area,

10 particularly because you are not happy with the situation as it may

11 obtain, I enjoin Mr. Borovic to keep in constant touch with your client --

12 with his client, and you have every right to draw to my attention anything

13 that is related to your health for which you need or even require or you

14 expect my intervention. So don't be afraid to come forward to me if you

15 need my assistance or need my intervention.

16 THE ACCUSED RADIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: On the other hand, I also want to make it clear that

18 I am fully aware of the interest that the administration at the Detention

19 Unit takes in this area. Sometimes it doesn't depend only on the doctor

20 inside the Detention Unit itself. Sometimes the intervention or the help,

21 assistance of the Dutch hospital system is required, too, and I understand

22 that that sometimes takes time. But should there be the need for my

23 intervention, please let me know.

24 THE ACCUSED RADIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

25 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you. And with regard to your conditions of

Page 200

1 detention, Mr. Radic?

2 THE ACCUSED RADIC: [Interpretation] Everything is fine for the

3 moment. Thank you for asking.

4 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you. I wish everyone comes forward with that

5 answer.

6 I think that at this point we can adjourn. This Status Conference

7 ends here. The Trial Chamber stands adjourned until the next Status

8 Conference, which will be held within the 120-day limit.

9 As I tried to hint, it may -- probably won't -- as Presiding Judge

10 of Trial Chamber II, I will probably assign this case to another Judge as

11 Pre-Trial Judge, so it may well be that this is the last time you are

12 seeing me here as a Pre-Trial Judge in your case. I will take the

13 decision, because again it has to be a collegial decision more or less,

14 but I will take the decision later on today or in the course of this week.

15 But I can assure you that you will be treated equally if not better.

16 I thank you, and have a nice evening.

17 --- Whereupon the Further Appearance/Status

18 Conference adjourned at 5.35 p.m.