1 Wednesday, 12 April 2006
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.05 a.m.
5 JUDGE PARKER: Good morning. The more observant of you will
6 notice that there are not three. We anticipate that if we sit tomorrow
7 Judge Van Den Wyngaert will be able to sit with us. We will continue
8 sitting as two.
9 Mr. Smith.
10 MR. SMITH: Good morning, Your Honours, one brief matter.
11 I think there must be a flu flying around The Hague, because one
12 of our lawyers on the case is also sick, which really relates to the
13 application I have today. I believe Mr. Moore raised the issue of
14 presenting some of the Rule 92 evidence this week before the Easter break.
15 Ms. Tuma will be dealing with that, but unfortunately this week as well
16 she's been unwell. So we would ask that that be put forward to after the
17 Easter break. And the next witness that was planned was a military
18 witness who I've been advised, the Prosecution believe would take at least
19 three days to testify. And in light of that, the Prosecution is not
20 really in a position to present a witness today before -- after this
21 witness, and before the Easter break starts. And, in part, the gap in
22 time, the day and a half that perhaps will be made available or free has
23 been due to the fact that the Prosecution slightly miscalculated how
24 quickly the cross-examinations of the re-called witnesses last week was
25 going to proceed. So if I could just advise the Court of that situation.
1 JUDGE PARKER: Well, effectively you're saying that we will
2 conclude today, assuming this witness's evidence finished today.
3 MR. SMITH: That is correct, Your Honour.
4 JUDGE PARKER: Is there any objection to that from counsel?
5 Mr. Vasic.
6 MR. VASIC: [Interpretation] Good morning to all. Thank you, Your
7 Honours. No objection whatsoever.
8 It does seem, however, that we have little time, as we are, and it
9 is on behalf of all three Defence teams that I would like to raise some
10 issues, which I think it is important to have ruled on before we head for
11 our break.
12 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Vasic, could that be done now, or after the
13 witness has finished his evidence?
14 MR. VASIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, we could deal with these
15 issues once we have finished with the witness. I think we shall be
16 requiring no more than five minutes after the witness leaves.
17 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. We can't deny Mr. Lukic and Mr. Borovic
18 their full measure.
19 Very well. We will now have the witness in and move into closed
21 [Closed session]
11 Pages 7582-7656 redacted. Closed session.
5 [Open session]
6 THE REGISTRAR: We are back in open session, Your Honours.
7 JUDGE PARKER: Now, Mr. Vasic, you've waited patiently.
8 MR. VASIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
9 I did point out on behalf of all three Defence teams that I would
10 like to raise two issues that strike me as important. This is in relation
11 to the submission we received from our learned friends on the 10th of
12 April this year, although we expected to arrive a lot earlier such as
13 announced by my learned friend, Mr. Moore.
14 The motion is marked as confidential. Maybe, just maybe that
15 might require us to go into private session, Your Honour, so that we can
16 raise some issues in relation to this.
17 JUDGE PARKER: Are your submissions about it ones that give rise
18 to confidential matters?
19 MR. VASIC: [Interpretation] One of the issues doesn't, in actual
20 fact. I may as well raise that issue right away. It's in relation to our
21 reply, Your Honours. I would like to present our position and ask for the
22 Trial Chamber's understanding in relation to this particular situation.
23 The other issue, I think, is directly related to the fact that the
24 submission was marked as confidential, and I think that we might be better
25 off doing that in private session.
1 I might raise the first matter now, for all it's worth. After
2 three months of trial, we are now facing a position of being given a short
3 break, something to do with the religious festivities approaching.
4 However, I do have to say that --
5 JUDGE PARKER: [Previous translation continues] ... to change that
6 and not have the break.
7 MR. VASIC: [Interpretation] I don't think that was what I was
8 going to ask for.
9 JUDGE PARKER: [Previous translation continues] ... so tread
11 MR. VASIC: [Interpretation] Thank you very much, Your Honour. But
12 we've covered that ground before, and this is our joint position.
13 We shall be taking advantage of only a very small portion of this
14 recess or break for the purpose of celebrating these festivities. We
15 shall be using the best part of the time to get in touch with our own
16 investigators and to give them further instructions to get on verifying a
17 number of facts that we've heard from a variety of witnesses here over the
18 last couple of weeks. Furthermore, we shall be meeting our Defence
19 experts, especially in view of the witnesses coming right after the break,
20 witnesses who are members of military units.
21 Therefore, Your Honours, the Defence would like to ask the
22 following: The Defence would like to ask to be granted more time for our
23 reply to this motion. The motion is of a very serious nature, and the
24 Defence will have to address a number of issues and address all the
25 documents that have been used in these proceedings, both at the pre-trial
1 stage and during the actual trial. We shall certainly be needing a little
2 more time in order to be able to do that.
3 So under its authority under Rule 127, may the Trial Chamber
4 please bear all these things in mind, as well as the additional factor,
5 which is that we have to get translations for our clients. This is very
6 important and has a bearing on whatever their responsibility might be
7 under the indictment. This applies to all three Defence teams, and given
8 the circumstances, the 28th of April might be a fitting extension. That
9 is the end of the week of our return.
10 If Your Honours believe that this is too long, can we at least
11 have the general 14-day extension that is granted under Rule 126 bis? And
12 if this could then be dealt with on the 25th of April in the morning, so
13 the Defence teams are given sufficient time to take care of business back
14 in Belgrade and so that we are able to file our reply in good time.
15 So much for the first issue that I was about to raise, Your
17 I would like now to move on to my second issue. For my second
18 issue --
19 JUDGE PARKER: [Previous translation continues] ... in private
21 [Private session]
11 Page 7660 redacted. Private session.
10 [Open session]
11 THE REGISTRAR: Open session, Your Honour.
12 JUDGE PARKER: The Chamber is well aware that there are many
13 demands on time on counsel and that they also put big pressures on family
14 and other commitments. The Chamber, in its time, has had to live that way
15 itself, as counsel. We are aware of the problems. But you will also
16 appreciate that from the point of view of the accused, the sooner this
17 trial is finished, the better. Therefore, we have to expect of counsel
18 that their work will be done expeditiously. We, therefore, tend to sit
19 five days a week, week after week so that this case can finish as soon as
21 Now, if there is a genuine need for adjournment, either for some
22 significant personal reason, or if the demands of a particular part of the
23 work justify it, you can be sure that it will be considered and granted,
24 if justified, but, otherwise, we need to maintain a hard-working pace.
25 You want further time now, it's important, you say. It happens to
1 coincide with the first break that we have agreed to. For that reason, we
2 are prepared to extend time until the 28th of April for your response. It
3 does mean that we will not be able to work on it and give a decision
4 immediately on your return.
5 We would point out, as you have mentioned in some of the things
6 that you will be doing during the break, that this trial will continue to
7 move with as much expedition as possible, so that at the end of the
8 Prosecution case, if there is to be a motion under Rule 98 bis, under the
9 terms of the new rule as amended, it will need to happen then, not after a
10 delay for you to think about it. And we would also point out that it is
11 the Chamber's intention to proceed with a minimum of delay to the Defence
12 evidence, if each of you is to call evidence, or if any of you are to call
13 evidence. Which means that the longest break that you can hope for, after
14 any 98 bis submission, is in the order of two weeks or perhaps three. Not
15 months. So if there is clear in everybody's mind, when you're thinking
16 whether you can afford another weekend off, bear this in mind. And you
17 will realise, in the end, the purpose is so that the trial can conclude.
18 Everybody, especially the accused, will know the outcome. They have had a
19 long time wanting to know what the outcome of these allegations are, and
20 it's important that this Chamber and this Tribunal does what it can to
21 ensure that that waiting for themselves and their family and all others
22 who are interested is kept to the shortest possible time.
23 It appears that there is nothing further that is to be raised
24 before we break for the two celebrations of the Easter festival. Is that
1 May we wish all of you a happy Easter and a time, I hope, with
2 your families. We will resume on the Tuesday after the Orthodox Easter.
3 MR. SMITH: Excuse me, Your Honour, there is one brief matter.
4 JUDGE PARKER: After that lovely speech. You've spoiled it all,
5 Mr. Smith.
6 MR. SMITH: Your Honour, the case manager in this case, Sandra
7 D'Angelo is leaving the case, and Mr. Andres Vatter will be the new case
8 manager. She is going to the Rwanda Tribunal, and we appreciate -- we
9 have appreciated her assistance.
10 JUDGE PARKER: I think all of us would join in that and we wish
11 her well.
12 Mr. Vasic.
13 MR. VASIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
14 I would just like to wish everyone a very happy Easter on behalf
15 of the Defence teams. And most of all I would like to thank Ms. D'Angelo
16 for her kind and successful cooperation with all our teams. Thank you.
17 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. We will now adjourn.
18 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 12.21 p.m.,
19 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 25th day of April,
20 2006, at 2.15 p.m.