THE PROSECUTOR OF

THE TRIBUNAL

MR. ERIC OSTBERG and MRS. TERESA McHENRY appeared on behalf of the Prosecution

MR. ROBERT RHODES, Q.C. appeared on behalf of the Defence

THE REGISTRAR: Case IT-96-21-I, the Prosecutor against Zdravko Mucic.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Thank you. Can everyone hear me, everyone who is using a microphone? Can everyone hear me in the language they understand? Mr. Mucic? Very good. OK. This is an initial appearance pursuant to Rule 62 of the Tribunal's Rules of Procedure and Evidence. May I have the appearances for the Prosecutor, please?

MR. OSTBERG: I am Eric Ostberg, senior trial attorney and I appear today with my co-counsel, Mrs. Teresa McHenry.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Thank you. May I have the appearances for the Defence?

MR. RHODES: May it please your Honour, Robert Rhodes, Queen's Counsel, assigned counsel for Mr. Mucic.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Rhodes, remember to use the microphone. Thank you so much. Are there any additional appearances? Is the Prosecutor ready to proceed with the initial appearance?

MR. OSTBERG: Yes, your Honour, but before that I have a correction to make in the indictment. On page 6 of the indictment in the English version, at least, there is a misprint, if I can ---

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: In the English version?

MR. OSTBERG: -- take you to paragraph 22? Paragraph 22, page 6, in the middle of that paragraph, seven or eight lines from the bottom, it reads ,"and including all the murders described above in paragraph 17 to 22", should be "16 to 21". The same misprint

appears in the Serbo Croatian translation; in the French translation, however, it is correctly put. Thank you.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Rhodes, did you follow that request? It would be paragraph 22 of the indictment in the English version and in the Serbo Croatian version they would be changed. It is the French version that is correct. I do not suppose you have read all versions, have you?

MR. RHODES: No, your Honour, not yet. Mr. Ostberg was kind enough to inform me before your Honour came into court that he would be applying to make this amendment; of course, it does not take me by surprise or prejudice me in any way.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Very good, thank you. Then leave will be granted to the Prosecutor to submit the corrected version, that is, just correcting this typographical error in the English and in the Serbo Croatian version.

Mr. Rhodes, is the Defence ready to proceed?

MR. RHODES: Only ready to proceed with this hearing, but not any further.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Fine, thank you. Mr. Rhodes, has Mr. Mucic received a copy of the indictment?

MR. RHODES: Your Honour, yes.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Has he read it or has he had it read to him in a language he understands?

MR. RHODES: Yes.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Have you had an opportunity to discuss with Mr. Mucic the indictment?

MR. RHODES: Your Honour, yes. Pleas of not guilty are entered by Mr. Mucic in respect of all these charges.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: In your opinion, does Mr. Mucic -- I have a few more questions to ask you; actually, if you take a look at our Rule 62 of our Rules of Procedure and Evidence, they require a lot of us, so I am kind of going through this, if I may -- understand the nature of the charges against him contained in the indictment?

MR. RHODES: Yes, your Honour.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Is Mr. Mucic ready to proceed with a reading of the indictment for the purposes of an entry of a plea or does he wish to waive the reading of the indictment in its entirety?

MR. RHODES: Your Honour, I have not had an opportunity of asking him that specific thing. Might I just approach my client?

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Yes, you may.

MR. RHODES: Your Honour, it is not necessary for the indictment to be read.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Mucic, would you please stand? Would you please stand, sir? Are you ready to proceed with an entry of a plea to the counts in the indictment in which you are charged?

(The Accused Mucic nods)

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: For the record, sir, would you state your full name?

THE ACCUSED MUCIC [Original in Serbo-Croat]: My name is Zdravko Mucic.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Have you ever been known by a nickname?

THE ACCUSED MUCIC: Yes.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: And what is that nickname, sir?

THE ACCUSED MUCIC: "Pavo", that is my nickname, yes.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Ostberg, would you identify the counts in the indictment to which you wish Mr. Mucic to enter a plea?

MR. OSTBERG: Yes. These are the following counts, 13 and 14, 33 to 35, 38 to 39, 44 to including 49. That would be the counts pertaining to Mr. Mucic.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Mucic, you have received a copy of the indictment, have you not?

THE ACCUSED MUCIC: Yes, I have.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Are you ready to enter a plea with respect to these counts of the indictment?

THE ACCUSED MUCIC: Yes.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: How do you plead, guilty or not guilty as to count 13 of the indictment?

THE ACCUSED MUCIC: I plead not guilty.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: As to count 14 of the indictment, how do you plead, guilty or not guilty?

THE ACCUSED MUCIC: Not guilty.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: As to count 33 of the indictment, how do you plead, guilty or not guilty?

THE ACCUSED MUCIC: Not guilty.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: As to count 34 of the indictment, how do you plead, guilty or not guilty?

THE ACCUSED MUCIC: Not guilty.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: As to count 35 of the indictment, how do you plead, guilty or not guilty?

THE ACCUSED MUCIC: Not guilty.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: As to count 38 of the indictment, how do you plead, guilty or not guilty?

THE ACCUSED MUCIC: Not guilty.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: As to count 39 of the indictment, how do you plead, guilty or not guilty?

THE ACCUSED MUCIC: Not guilty.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: As to counts 44 through and including count 49, how do you plead, guilty or not guilty?

THE ACCUSED MUCIC: Not guilty.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Fine, thank you. You may be seated. Mr. Ostberg, have I called out all of the counts to which you wish Mr. Mucic to enter a plea?

MR. OSTBERG: Yes, you have, your Honour.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Thank you. Are there any preliminary matters that need to be addressed by counsel at this time? Mr. Ostberg?

MR. OSTBERG: No, we have nothing special for the moment.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Rhodes?

MR. RHODES: Not at the moment, your Honour.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Is the Prosecutor ready to proceed to trial?

MR. OSTBERG: Yes, your Honour.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: And Mr. Rhodes, are you ready to proceed to trial?

MR. RHODES: No, your Honour.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Once again, Mr. Rhodes, Rule 62 of our Rules of Procedure and Evidence suggest that I should set a date for trial which I will endeavour to do after we talk a little bit. Do you intend on filing any preliminary motions, Mr. Rhodes?

Rule 73 of our Rules provides for that.

MR. RHODES: Your Honour, it is too early to say; I have only received instructions in this case within the last 48 hours. I have still to receive the Prosecution witness statements and other material.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: As I have indicated, you have 60 days to file any preliminary motions. Rule 66, Mr. Ostberg, provides that the Prosecutor shall make available to the Defence as soon as practicable after the initial appearance of the accused, copies of the supporting material which accompanied the indictment when confirmation was sought, as well as all prior statements obtained by the Prosecutor from the accused or from Prosecution witnesses.

When do you think you will provide that information to Mr. Rhodes?

MR. OSTBERG: We will be able to do that in the following week. We have to do some redacting of the indictment from the point of view of protecting the victims,

chiefly the rape victims. We will do that tomorrow and the beginning of next week, and I think during the next week, at the latest next Friday, we would be able to provide the Defence with supporting material.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Then by April 19th, that is the Friday of next week, you will provide; is that sufficient time?

MR. OSTBERG: Yes.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Then, Mr. Rhodes, the Prosecutor will provide you with that material called for in the Rule by April 19th.

MR. OSTBERG: May I, your Honour, raise some issues, not exactly a motion but some comments?

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Yes.

MR. OSTBERG: The indictment encompasses, as you see from the heading of it, another three indicted persons, more than Mr. Mucic. One of them, by the name of Zejnil Delalic, has been arrested in Germany. We do not know now exactly when he will be delivered or transferred to the Tribunal, maybe in a couple of weeks, maybe even next week; we are not certain yet, but he is arrested in Munich of Germany. It is material to this trial that the case against Mr. Mucic and Mr. Delalic be tried in one piece, that we try them together.

Therefore, your Honour, I suggest that the date for the trial not be set until Delalic has arrived in The Hague and we know what kind of motions he will make and what we can do. It is premature, I think, today to set a trial date. I think we would find a date, your Honour, for a status conference to discuss this question some time after the arrival of Mr. Delalic.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Rhodes, do you have a comment to make with respect to that suggestion?

MR. RHODES: Simply that it seems a very sensible suggestion to be made.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: I do not know that Mr. Mucic should really wait for another individual. I do not know when that other individual may be arriving, if he will be.

MR. OSTBERG: Yes, your Honour. If there is some delay more than, say, two or three weeks, then, of course, we cannot wait but for a reasonable period of time, I think it is a good thing to do so.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: By April 19th the Prosecutor will provide the Defence with the accompanied material. We will set a status conference with the Chamber. The Prosecutor and the Defence should appear at the status conference on May 14th 1996 at 9 a.m. That will enable the Chamber to assess the progress of the case in terms of the additional defendant as well as Mr. Rhodes to hear from you with respect to any preliminary motions that you may file. After the status conference on May 14th, we will set a date for the trial. Is that acceptable?

MR. OSTBERG: Yes.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Are there any additional matters that need to be brought to the attention of the Chamber at this time?

MR. RHODES: Not on my behalf, your Honour.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Ostberg?

MR. OSTBERG: Nor on mine.

JUDGE SIDHWA: Mr. Rhodes, you can also file any applications for motions even before 14th May, if you want to.

MR. RHODES: I am obliged, your Honour.

JUDGE SIDHWA: You are not obliged to wait to the 14th.

MR. RHODES: I am obliged, your Honour.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Is there anything else, Mr. Ostberg?

MR. OSTBERG: No.

THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Rhodes? And you understand what Judge Sidhwa is saying, that if you want to you can file a motion just as soon as you wish but you do have 60 days which is the outside limit. So take a look at the Rules. Thank you very much. We stand adjourned.