Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 7305

1 Friday, 15 April 2005.

2 [Open session]

3 --- Upon commencing at 2.20 p.m.

4 [The accused entered court]

5 JUDGE AGIUS: So, Madam Registrar, you can call the case. Thank

6 you.

7 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honours. This is case number

8 IT-03-68-T, the Prosecutor versus Naser Oric.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, Madam Registrar, and good afternoon to

10 you.

11 Mr. Oric, good afternoon to you. Before we proceed, can you

12 please confirm to us that you are receiving interpretation in your own

13 language?

14 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours, ladies

15 and gentlemen. I am indeed receiving interpretation in my own language

16 and I'm able to follow the proceedings.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you. You may sit down. Appearances for the

18 Prosecution.

19 MR. WUBBEN: Good afternoon Your Honours, my name is Jan Wubben

20 lead counsel for the Prosecution and good afternoon to you the Defence as

21 well. I'm here together with co-counsel, Ms. Patricia Sellers, and our

22 case manager, Ms. Donnica Henry-Frijlink.

23 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, Mr. Wubben and good afternoon to you

24 and your team.

25 Appearances for Naser Oric.

Page 7306

1 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours. My

2 name is Vasvija Vidovic, together with Mr. John Jones, I represent the

3 Mr. Naser Oric. With us our legal assistant, Miss Adisa Mehic, our legal

4 assistant, and Mr. Geoff Roberts, our case manager.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, Madam Vidovic and good afternoon to you

6 and your team.

7 So before we bring in the witness, are there any preliminary

8 matters that you would like to raise? Yes, Mr. Wubben.

9 MR. WUBBEN: No, Your Honour.

10 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you. Madam Vidovic?

11 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you. Madam Vidovic, I'm just enquiring of

13 you, do you think you could possibly finish this witness by today?

14 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, just before our

15 session, I spoke to my colleagues from the Prosecution. If Ms. Sellers is

16 able to stick to what she promised, that she would be finished within ten

17 or fifteen minutes, I will do my best to finish today, because usually I

18 am able to finish with the number of questions I've foreseen with this

19 witness within three hours, or thereabouts. So it should be possible, of

20 course, provided that the witness co-operates.

21 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. I thank you. Let's bring the witness

22 in. Not lose more type. Ms. Sellers do you think you can finish your

23 in-chief in ten or fifteen minutes?

24 MS. SELLERS: Yes, Your Honour, that's what I'm aiming for.

25 JUDGE AGIUS: That's perfect. Thank you.

Page 7307

1 [The witness entered court]

2 JUDGE AGIUS: Good afternoon to you, Mr. Petrovic.

3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good afternoon.

4 JUDGE AGIUS: Welcome back. You are still testifying under oath.

5 I'm just reminding you. We will proceed with the examination-in-chief,

6 then we will have the cross-examination and we are all doing our utmost to

7 try and finish with your testimony today so that you can go home earlier.

8 Let's start, Madam Sellers.


10 [Witness answered through interpreter]

11 Examined by Ms. Sellers: [Continued]

12 MS. SELLERS: Good afternoon, Mr. Petrovic.

13 A. Good afternoon.

14 Q. Thank you. Yesterday you testified about the attack by Muslim

15 forces on Bjelovac on the 14th of December, 1992. You specifically

16 testified that the forces or guards from Bratunac came to Bjelovac after

17 the Muslim forces had retreated. If you know, please tell the Trial

18 Chamber why the Bratunac guards arrived after the Muslim retreat.

19 A. I think they were unable to go to Loznica and Zaluzje because that

20 area was blocked, so they went through Serbia and were transported across

21 the river Drina by boat.

22 Q. Thank you. Did you ever come to know who, if anyone, commanded

23 the Muslim forces that attacked Bjelovac on that day?

24 A. No. I never learned that, because I don't know who their

25 commander was.

Page 7308

1 Q. Do you have any idea who was in charge of the Muslim forces in the

2 region?

3 A. I know that Naser Oric was in charge of Srebrenica. I don't know

4 who was in charge of that action in Bjelovac.

5 Q. Is that the same Naser Oric that you've testified about when we

6 spoke about your employment at the gas station?

7 A. Yes. I know only of one. I don't know any other.

8 Q. Returning just a bit to your days at the gas station, Mr.

9 Petrovic. Could you please tell the Trial Chamber if you knew a person

10 called Kemo?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Could you please give us a physical description of Kemo.

13 A. He was a tall guy, well built. We were on good terms before the

14 war. He would often come to the gas station and filled his car up there

15 at this gas station where I worked.

16 Q. Do you know where Kemo worked prior to the war, in 1992?

17 A. I don't know if he worked in a company, or if he was self-employed

18 in a private company. I don't know.

19 Q. Did you ever see him in a uniform of any kind before the war?

20 A. Before the war, I did not see him in a uniform. But just before

21 the war started, about 15 to 20 days before that, I saw him wearing the

22 uniform of the reserve police force.

23 Q. And do you know where he would be a member of the reserve police

24 force? From where would he be a member of the reserve police force?

25 A. On one occasion, as I was going home, I saw him Turbe, near

Page 7309

1 Potocari, at the checkpoint. He stopped my cousin's car. That was the

2 car of Mladen Petrovic. He was giving me a lift. We knew each other. He

3 saw me in the car and I did not have any problems. He let us through and

4 to go on our way.

5 Q. Did you have an opportunity, since you've seen him on several

6 occasions and he has spoken to you, did you have an opportunity to learn

7 about his reputation?

8 A. Do you mean before the war?

9 Q. Yes, please.

10 A. Before the war, I knew Kemo very well. He was an aggressive man.

11 But regardless of the ethnic background. He would often get into conflict

12 with the police and, so to speak, they couldn't do anything to him.

13 Q. So is it your testimony that Kemo had a propensity toward

14 violence?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Would it also be your testimony this was well known or this was

17 his reputation prior to the war in 1992?

18 A. Everybody in Srebrenica knew that.

19 Q. Now, returning just a bit and here we will try and conclude,

20 returning to your testimony that Naser Oric was in charge of forces in

21 Srebrenica, I would like to ask you, after seeing Mr. Oric at the gas

22 station, did you ever see him in an image, in a print, in a video

23 televised, painted or otherwise, after those days at the gas station?

24 A. While I worked at the gas station, no. I never saw him in the

25 papers, in any picture anywhere. That was up until the war when he came

Page 7310

1 to Srebrenica.

2 Q. And after the war, did you ever see him in any papers or print or

3 in any other form?

4 A. After the war, I saw him in the papers. I don't remember what

5 newspaper that was. I think it was Kravica. A group of soldiers were

6 photographed I think they were standing in front of a cafe, or the youth

7 hall where the village dances were held.

8 MS. SELLERS: Your Honours, I would ask that the witness be shown

9 460. It's on Sanctions.

10 Q. Mr. Petrovic, is this the picture that you've just referred to in

11 your testimony?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Would you, please, describe for the Trial Chamber where you see

14 Naser Oric on that picture.

15 A. Well, he's right here. [Indicates]

16 Q. Your Honour might I ask him to hold --

17 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, could he --

18 MS. SELLERS: -- to hold the picture up and point to it so that

19 Your Honours will be able to see. We can put it on the ELMO also.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Petrovic, could you point again, on the photo,

21 so that we can follow you on the screen. Thank you.

22 A. [Indicates]


24 Q. Now, Mr. Petrovic --

25 JUDGE AGIUS: So, the witness points to the individual who appears

Page 7311

1 to be on horseback under the tip of the angle of the roof of the building

2 that stands behind him.

3 MR. JONES: For the record, Your Honour I think it is important to

4 state that it is it a brown horse, at least not a white horse, because

5 there have been references to --

6 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, certainly. Certainly. It shows on the photo.

7 I mean, we only have one photo now, but.

8 MR. JONES: But the transcript refers to white horses all over the

9 place, so --

10 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. But I didn't say white horse, did I?

11 MR. JONES: No. I'm just saying it should say it is not a white

12 horse.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: It is a dark horse for all intents and purposes,

14 what we are seeing in the photo now.

15 MS. SELLERS: Your Honour I don't know whether you would like him

16 to circle the printed image. It would not -- we might use this photo in

17 the future. I don't know whether you want this witness to make a mark

18 when he's circled or whether it is sufficient --

19 JUDGE AGIUS: If you can spare this photo and have others like it,

20 at our disposal later on, yes, we can do that. So, Mr. Petrovic, perhaps

21 take that photo back in your hands now and put a big circle around the

22 person -- no. Don't. Don't, because that is the court exhibit. So you

23 need to give him another one.

24 MS. SELLERS: What we will do is try to provide another clean

25 photo to the registrar, if that were possible.

Page 7312

1 JUDGE AGIUS: All right.

2 MS. SELLERS: To replace this one.

3 JUDGE AGIUS: This one, it's already marked. So I don't think we

4 can have the witness mark -- put any marks on it. If you have a spare

5 copy of it, then -- but anyway I think the description that I have put on

6 the record suffices.

7 MS. SELLERS: Certainly. Now, I would ask, could we just have

8 Mr. Petrovic look closely at the photograph and on our Sanction screen

9 we're going to do a slight zoom-in.

10 Mr. Petrovic, do you recognise any other people in this photograph

11 by face or by name?

12 JUDGE AGIUS: Report to the technicians, please, that Judge Eser's

13 monitor is not functioning.

14 [Trial Chamber confers with registrar]

15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I recognise two of the faces, but I

16 can't remember their names. I saw them quite often.


18 Q. And did you see them quite often before the war, while you were

19 working at the gas station or in some other capacity? Or on some other

20 occasion?

21 A. Before. Before. While I was still working at the gas station,

22 before the war.

23 Q. And do you know, of the people that you recognise, were they

24 Bosnian Serbs or Bosnian Muslims?

25 A. Muslims.

Page 7313

1 Q. Now I will just ask that we do a final zoom in and, Mr. Petrovic,

2 I would ask you to look closely and tell me, if you can, what types of

3 weapons are the persons carrying in the picture.

4 A. As far as I can see, the first row, the people that are kneeling

5 down, that would be M84 and as far as I'm able to see, because it's quite

6 dark, the ones in the upper row, they have automatic weapons.

7 Q. Thank you. Now, Mr. Petrovic, after you saw this picture, did you

8 ever see another photo, print, video, or televised image of Naser Oric?

9 A. I think I saw -- I don't know who the witness was, but that was

10 just very briefly. Because in the area where I live, in

11 Bosnia-Herzegovina, we do not really get the Bosnia-Herzegovina channels.

12 We only get Serbian channels, the Belgrade TV, and they do not really

13 broadcast that very often.

14 Q. Did you see a televised image of Mr. Oric on that occasion?

15 A. Yes. At the trial.

16 Q. And is that the same Naser Oric that you are referring to that you

17 saw when you worked at the gas station?

18 A. Yes.

19 MS. SELLERS: Your Honour, I have no further questions.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Sellers.

21 Madam Vidovic.

22 Cross-examined by Ms. Vidovic:

23 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

24 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Petrovic.

25 A. Good afternoon, Mrs. Vidovic.

Page 7314

1 Q. Mr. Petrovic, you are the only Nikola Petrovic born on the 15th of

2 January, 1959 who lived in Bjelovac during the war.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Your wife is Rada Petrovic?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. You told us that in your village, the village of Bjelovac -- I

7 have to apologise, Your Honours. I had a small microphone problem.

8 Mr. Petrovic, you told us that in your village of Bjelovac, from

9 spring 1992 until the very attack, there was a lot of tension; that is

10 correct?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. You explained that this tension was the result of the

13 establishment of the parties, the setting up of the night guards?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. You also explained, in your testimony, that Muslims on one

16 occasion, in March 1992, stopped a bus with a mixed population on board?

17 A. No. They did not stop the bus. That's not what I said. I said

18 that I came to the bus station to the Kriva road, the bus was not there,

19 but I was brought back. They did not let me pass to go to the bus

20 station.

21 Q. Thank you very much for your explanation. You also said that you

22 had evacuated your family to Serbia, to Grabovica. Did I understand you

23 correctly?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Many other people from Bjelovac and the neighbouring villages did

Page 7315

1 the same.

2 A. About 90 per cent, I think.

3 Q. You said that the tensions were growing because of the attacks on

4 the -- by the Muslim forces on some villages in this area?

5 A. I did not say that there was a growing danger, that there was any

6 danger. I just said that there were some night guards set up. I didn't

7 say that the Muslim forces carried out any attacks.

8 Q. I would now like you to have a look at a map.

9 A. Yes.

10 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, this is a segment of a

11 larger map of the military geological institute of the former Yugoslavia,

12 that is the segment entitled "Zvornik." In order to make it easier for

13 the witness and the Trial Chamber to find their way around, we've

14 highlighted the areas that we will be asking this witness about. I would

15 like the map to be placed on the ELMO and the witness to have a look at

16 it.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, definitely on the ELMO, because otherwise it

18 will be a great strain on anybody's eyes. So let's put it on the ELMO and

19 have the technicians zoom-in, please, the area which is highlighted.

20 Where would you like to start from, Madam Vidovic?

21 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

22 Q. From Bjelovac. Your Honour, I have to apologise for having

23 produced such a small map, but this map really includes everything, and

24 includes all the places that are relevant for us.

25 JUDGE AGIUS: I am not criticizing you, Ms. Vidovic. I'm just

Page 7316

1 being practical. So just put it on the -- Bjelovac is the three boxes

2 from the bottom right and three boxes from the extreme right?

3 Q. Witness, would you please take the pointer.

4 JUDGE AGIUS: Usher, if you take the last four boxes -- square

5 boxes on the right, bottom right, in the top box you will find Bjelovac.

6 So that's where, under -- below Zaluzje and above Loznica.

7 A. That's right.

8 JUDGE AGIUS: So what we need --

9 A. Yes.

10 JUDGE AGIUS: -- the technicians to zoom in, so that, yes, okay.

11 But we have still got to overcome.

12 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] I think it's fine now.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Now, Mr. Petrovic, look at the screen first

14 and you should be able to identify whereby Bjelovac is. Then look at the

15 map on the other side, on the ELMO, and try to show it to us. Yes. For

16 the record, the witness points to Bjelovac. Yes. Next question, Madam

17 Vidovic.

18 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

19 Q. Witness, now would you please point to Sikirici?

20 A. [Indicates]

21 Q. Please show Sase.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Stop for a moment. And for the record, the

23 witness pointed to Sikirici and to Sase on the map.

24 Q. Now would you be so kind and point to Loznica?

25 JUDGE AGIUS: For the record, the witness points to Loznica.

Page 7317

1 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

2 Q. And please show to Biljaca and Zaluzje?

3 A. Biljaca and Zalazje.

4 JUDGE AGIUS: For the record, the witness has indicated the

5 villages of Biljaca and Zaluzje on the map.

6 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

7 Q. And Voljevica, please. Pobrdje.

8 JUDGE AGIUS: And Voljevica and Pobrdje.

9 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation].

10 Q. Now, please the area of Rakovac.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. And the witness points to the area of Rakovac.


13 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

14 Q. Now, would you please, witness, go up the Drina River and show us

15 Suha.

16 A. [Indicates]

17 JUDGE AGIUS: And the witness, for the record, has shown the

18 village of Suha, which is just below the other village of Mihaljevici.

19 Yes.

20 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

21 Q. Mihaljevici.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: Indeed he also indicates the village of Mihaljevici.

23 Q. Lonjin, please.

24 A. [Indicates]

25 Q. And would you please show us Jelav.

Page 7318

1 JUDGE AGIUS: And finally the witness pointed to the two villages

2 of Lonjin and Jelav.

3 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

4 Q. If possible, would you please initial this map, not perhaps in all

5 of these spots but just in one single location, just to confirm that you

6 have indeed shown all of these places to us.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. The witness, for the record, has put his

8 initials. That's initials in Cyrillic.

9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No. Latin alphabet.

10 JUDGE AGIUS: Is that a "N"? The first one?

11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] "N," and then the second letter is

12 a "P".

13 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

14 Q. All right. Mr. Petrovic, now, would you please keep the map with

15 you, because we will be referring to it further during the

16 cross-examination.

17 I will now put some questions to you. During your testimony, you

18 said that the tensions grew due to Muslim attacks on some of the villages

19 in that area. Did I understand you well?

20 A. I said that the tension grew due to party elections. Not due to

21 Muslim attacks. Because in the beginning of the war, nobody attacked.

22 Neither Muslims, nor Serbs.

23 Q. Mr. Petrovic, I am now referring to the time from the beginning of

24 the war onwards.

25 A. Oh, the beginning of the war. Then, yes.

Page 7319

1 Q. All right. So it is your testimony that the tension grew due to

2 Muslim attacks on the Serb villages in that area?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. What you said yesterday about the way that the situation developed

5 in the spring and summer of 1992 is not a complete truth, is it?

6 A. I don't know what you mean. It's not clear to me.

7 Q. It isn't true that the tension in this area grew due to Muslim

8 attacks in the spring and summer of 1992.

9 A. What was the other reason then?

10 Q. Witness, I'm asking you to answer my questions.

11 A. I said the tension was called [as interpreted] by the Muslim

12 attacks in the area surrounding the village of Bjelovac.

13 Q. Very well. Thank you, witness. It is true, isn't it, that in

14 these villages, before the war, these villages that you have just shown to

15 us, therefore that in these villages before the war there was Muslim

16 population. In some villages the Muslims constituted an absolute

17 majority. In some villages they were a relative majority. Whereas in

18 some villages the population was mixed. Would you agree with me?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. In the course of giving evidence yesterday, you stated that before

21 the war, in Bjelovac, there were only four Muslim houses?

22 A. Yes. Four Muslim households.

23 Q. And is that true?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q.

Page 7320

1 Q. In showing video footage of an attack on Bjelovac, the Prosecutor

2 showed you a school?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Would you agree with me that the school is located in the very

5 centre of Bjelovac?

6 A. No. The school is in the area where one leaves Bjelovac, where

7 the exit point is from Bjelovac.

8 Q. All right. But would you agree that this still constitutes

9 Bjelovac?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. I am putting to you now that in the vicinity of the school and

12 some 300 metres away from your house, before the war, there used to be 37

13 Muslim houses. Is that true?

14 A. No.

15 Q. I will now read out to you the names of these people, people who

16 were owners of the houses, and please tell me if we come to a single

17 person who did not own a house before the war in Bjelovac.

18 A. All right.

19 Q. All of these houses are in the immediate vicinity of the school,

20 to the left of the road. Mujic Hajdar.

21 A. That's across the river. That's in Zaluzje.

22 Q. Hasib Mujic?

23 A. That's in Zaluzje, in the Zaluzje area of Bjelovac. These are

24 what they used to call Muslim Roma inhabitants.

25 Q. But you just told us that these are Roma from Bjelovac. They were

Page 7321

1 from Bjelovac, weren't they?

2 A. Well, they used to call them Bjelovac Roma inhabitants. However,

3 they lived across the river, in the Serbian part of Bjelovac.

4 Q. Would you agree with me --

5 JUDGE AGIUS: One moment, because I need to understand a little

6 bit, because this, what is just stated now, the Serbian part of Bjelovac,

7 may be a little bit confusing. I mean, I think I know what he means, but

8 I think he needs to explain.

9 What's the difference between Bjelovac and the Serbian side of

10 Bjelovac? Serbian part of Bjelovac?

11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The Serbian part of Bjelovac has a

12 river flowing through it. The river that comes from Sase, and all the way

13 up to Sikirici was what was called the Serbian part of Bjelovac. Whereas

14 below the river, towards Zaluzje and Voljevica, lived the so-called

15 Bjelovac Roma, or gypsies.

16 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, may I continue?

17 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, of course.

18 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

19 Q. Mr. Petrovic, would you agree with me that before the war there

20 was never any kind of a division into the Serbian or Muslim or the gypsy

21 Bjelovac?

22 A. Before the war there was no kind of a division or distinction.

23 Q. All right. So this was just a place known as Bjelovac? This is

24 what we are discussing right now.

25 A. [No audible response]

Page 7322

1 Q. Is that true?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Mr. Petrovic, let us not go through the names, because it is

4 rather clear. Please tell us whether the Jahic family is also a Gypsy

5 family. Jahic Ismeta, Jahic Fikret, Jahic Salko, are all of these gypsies?

6 A. Yes, yes. This was a settlement where no Muslims or Serbs lived.

7 Q. But would you agree that these people were still Muslims? These

8 Roma are still Muslims, aren't they?

9 A. Yes, yes, I said so.

10 Q. Sinanovic, Rahman, Dalibasic Muriz [phoen], are they Roma or not?

11 A. They are Muslims, they lived in the area where the school was.

12 Q. All right. I will not proceed with this any further. These

13 houses that I just mentioned, except for the four houses mentioned by you

14 yesterday, were all burned in May of 1992; is that right?

15 A. Yes. Except for those four houses which were in the area closer

16 to the Serbian part of Bjelovac.

17 Q. Would you please tell the Chamber who burned down these Muslim

18 houses in Bjelovac.

19 A. These houses in Bjelovac were burned down by some sort of

20 volunteers who had arrived from elsewhere. Some of them were called

21 people from Vukovar and some of them were called just volunteers but I

22 wouldn't be able to tell you anything else about them.

23 Q. What happened with the property owned by Muslim?

24 A. I think that it was all burned down.

25 Q. If you are referring to Bjelovac.

Page 7323

1 A. Yes, yes. I think that it all burned down.

2 Q. What about these volunteers that you have mentioned, they were

3 also Serbs weren't they?

4 A. I don't know. Most likely they were. However, I never checked.

5 I had no such authorities.

6 Q. In Sikirici, more than half of the residents were Muslim Bosniaks,

7 weren't they?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Before the war, Voljevica was a large village, with over 1300

10 residents, isn't that right?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And these residents were Muslim Bosniaks?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Zaluzje had about 620 residents?

15 A. I don't know exactly, but there were a lot of them.

16 Q. Were they Bosnians?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. In Suha, Mihaljevici and Lonjin, before the war the Muslims

19 constituted majority, didn't they?

20 A. I'm not as familiar with these villages but I think that you are

21 right.

22 Q. Mihaljevici was a purely Muslim village; isn't that right?

23 A. I think that is right. If you mean Mihaljevici by the Lubostanija

24 bridge [phoen], I think that you are right.

25 Q. Mr. Petrovic, in the course of April and May, 1992, all of these

Page 7324

1 Muslims were brutally forced out of their homes. Do you know about that?

2 A. I was not present in Bratunac. I was in Bjelovac. However, I

3 heard that this was true.

4 Q. However, Mr. Petrovic, I am now referring to the villages that

5 you've just pointed out to us which are located in the vicinity of

6 Bjelovac, not in the vicinity of Bratunac.

7 This place that you're referring to is ten kilometres from

8 Bjelovac.

9 A. You're asking me about Mihaljevici, aren't you?

10 Q. I asked you both about Mihaljevici, Suha, Biljaca.

11 A. Well, Biljaca is something else. It is closer to Bjelovac. It's

12 only about a kilometre and a half to two kilometres.

13 Q. What about Voljevica?

14 A. It's four kilometres away.

15 Q. Zaluzje?

16 A. It borders with Bjelovac.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: We're doing fine. But it seems that now you've

18 fallen back to the bad habit of not allowing an interval of time between

19 question an answer. You know about it, Madam Vidovic. I'm not going to

20 preach to you. But the witness doesn't.

21 You are both speaking the same language and what is happening is

22 that you are answering her questions immediately, sometimes you won't even

23 let her finish the question. And you are not the only one who is doing

24 this. Madam Vidovic is doing the same. Sometimes she is not even

25 allowing you to finish your answer, and she jumps in with her question.

Page 7325












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13 English transcripts.













Page 7326

1 Please, it's not for my sake. It is for the sake of the ladies and

2 gentlemen behind the glass panes over there, who have got one of the most

3 difficult jobs inside this Tribunal, and that's interpreting live what

4 each one of us is saying into three languages: Into English, into

5 Serbo-Croat, and into French, and they need the cooperation of all of us

6 otherwise they will go home extremely tired and will also not have the

7 best performance from them that we require. So I appeal to you

8 Madam Vidovic and Mr. Petrovic, please be good enough to allow an interval

9 of time between question and answer.

10 Madam Vidovic.

11 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

12 Q. Mr. Petrovic, did I understand you correctly that Zaluzje borders

13 with Bjelovac?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Voljevica is about three kilometres away from Bjelovac? Am I

16 right?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Biljaca?

19 A. Biljaca is about a kilometre or a kilometre and a half away.

20 Q. Thank you. Mr. Petrovic, do you know that many of the Muslims who

21 had been expelled, maltreated in those villages, many of them had been

22 killed?

23 A. I don't remember any of it. I didn't take part in it, and I don't

24 know about it.

25 Q. Could you please tell the Trial Chamber how far Sase are from

Page 7327

1 Bjelovac.

2 A. I think three kilometres.

3 Q. Those people who were expelled, in the course of April and May,

4 1992, they were captured, detained in the Sase camp. Did you hear about

5 that?

6 A. I don't know about that.

7 Q. That was about three kilometres away from where you were. You did

8 not hear about the fact that dozens of people had been killed there,

9 including women and 11 small children. This is not something that just

10 happens every day. People talked about it, did they?

11 A. I said that I was not in Sase. I was in Bjelovac.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: Madam Vidovic, that does not answer the question.

13 It's being put to you that people would still talk about these things, the

14 Sase detention centre where these people were being imprisoned and killed,

15 even though it was in Bjelovac that these people would be talking about,

16 the Sase place.

17 The question basically boils down to the following: Irrespective

18 of the fact that you lived in Bjelovac and not in Sase, did you hear about

19 this Sase detention place, correction centre or --

20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] There were stories and rumours that

21 Muslims had been expelled, but I don't know about the camp in Sase. I

22 know that in Bratunac they were gathered there, but I didn't hear anything

23 about Sase.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: All right.

25 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

Page 7328

1 Q. Thank you. Mr. Petrovic, not only should you know about those

2 events, but, in fact, I put it to you, you were an active participant in

3 those events.

4 A. That is not true.

5 Q. On the 13th of May, 1992, you were in a unit of Slavojub Rankic

6 that attacked the Muslim villages of Voljevica and Zaluzje, burned those

7 two villages down, and killed dozens of civilians, including women and

8 children. People saw you there. Do you know that?

9 A. That is not true that I took part in the cleansing of Voljevica

10 and Zaluzje. As far as I know nobody ever mentioned my name or saw me

11 there. I would like to see the evidence and who was it that mentioned

12 Nikola Petrovic as a participant of the cleansing of Voljevica and

13 Zaluzje.

14 Q. So you claim that you did not -- that you were not in Zaluzje and

15 Voljevica on the 13th of May, 1992; is that your testimony?

16 A. I was not there, that's right 100 per cent true.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: That was another part of your question. Because

18 this is why I wouldn't like you to put several questions into once. The

19 first part of your question, was suggesting that he formed part of a

20 specific unit. And perhaps you can put that question again, whether, on

21 the 13th of May or thereabouts, he formed part of a -- you tell him which

22 unit, please, Madam Vidovic.

23 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

24 Q. Thank you, Your Honour. This is precisely what I wanted to ask.

25 In May and not only in May, in fact, but throughout the better part of

Page 7329

1 1992 but, in particular, in May, you were a member of Slavojub Rankic's

2 unit, am I right?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Thank you very much. Mr. Petrovic, thousands of people who were

5 expelled from these villages that I mentioned roamed the woods around the

6 villages in the spring, summer and autumn of 1992. Do you know that?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. The villages from Voljevica and Zaluzje, Abdulici, Tegari, tried

9 to go back to their homes. Do you know about that?

10 A. Well, perhaps they did try to do that during the night, but I

11 don't know whether they tried to do that during the day.

12 Q. It is true that they left their fields sown with crops?

13 A. Yes, that is correct.

14 Q. It is true, is it not, that these people were under constant

15 attack, that ambushes were set up for them by the Serbian troops. Is that

16 true?

17 A. Well, where? Where were the guards? Where were they attacked?

18 You did not specify the locations.

19 Q. We will come to that later, but let me now ask you quite

20 specifically, on the roads leading to Voljevica, Zaluzje, Abdulici,

21 Tegari; do you agree with me?

22 A. You said that they had been expelled. They did not live there if

23 they were expelled. Though went down to Srebrenica, towards Srebrenica.

24 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I would like you to

25 ask the witness not to comment on my questions. I am talking about

Page 7330

1 ambushes, and I am claiming, I put it to you that ambushes were set up for

2 Muslims on the routes they used as they tried to go back to their villages

3 of Voljevica, Zaluzje, Abdulici, and Tegari; is that correct?

4 A. It's possible.

5 Q. Do you know that in this area a large number of mines were laid on

6 all possible routes, including the streambeds used by Muslims to move

7 about. Do you know about that?

8 A. I do know that mines were laid a bit further up from the Serbian

9 village of Bjelovac, in front of the line that we held. Now, as for the

10 other villages, I don't know.

11 Q. Did you hear that many Muslims on those routes that I just

12 mentioned, leading to Voljevica, Zaluzje, Abdulici, and Tegari were

13 captured and taken to Serb prisons throughout 1992?

14 A. I did hear about that.

15 Q. Can you agree with me that, in fact, this caused tensions in the

16 area where you lived, not only the attacks that you mentioned yesterday in

17 your testimony.

18 A. Well, yes. I could agree with you.

19 Q. Yesterday you spoke about the attacks on Loznica, in the summer of

20 1992.

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. In fact, right from the beginning of the war, Loznica was a

23 Serbian stronghold, the stronghold of the Serbian forces and this was the

24 area where ambushes were set for Muslim civilians who were trying to reach

25 Abdulici and Tegari; is that correct?

Page 7331

1 A. I don't know about that, but they didn't have to go to Tegari via

2 Loznica.

3 Q. But this is where sniper and machine-gun nests were positioned,

4 where hundreds of Muslims were killed as they tried to get to their

5 property during the night. Did you hear about that?

6 A. No. It is impossible that that many of them could be killed

7 during the night.

8 Q. You spoke about the attack on Zalazje and Azlica?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. In fact, the headquarters of an entire battalion of the Serbian

11 army was located in Zalazje; is that correct?

12 A. I don't know how many of them there were, but there were Serbian

13 troops in Zalazje.

14 Q. Would you agree with me that heavy artillery was stationed there

15 and that fire was opened from that heavy artillery daily on the

16 surrounding Muslim areas, in particular, Potocari and Srebrenica. Did you

17 hear about that?

18 A. I was not at Zalazje, but it is possible.

19 Q. So it is possible that heavy artillery was positioned there and

20 that it was used to shell those areas?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. You testified in detail yesterday about the attack of the Muslim

23 forces on Obadi. On the 12th of June, 1992.

24 Would you agree with me that Likari is in the immediate vicinity

25 of Obadi? I would like to ask you now to have another look at the map

Page 7332

1 that we've used. I hope that you have it here. Yesterday you showed

2 Obadi here to the Trial Chamber. I think Obadi are quite visible here on

3 this map. Could you now please show the area of Likari.

4 JUDGE AGIUS: For the record, the witness has indicated the town

5 of -- or the village of Obadi and the one -- and of Likari on the map.

6 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

7 Q. Do you agree with me that Likari are less than one kilometre away

8 from Obadi? Am I right?

9 A. I think you are.

10 Q. It is true, is it not, that the Pous hill is right above your

11 father's house, about three hundred metres away from it?

12 A. No, that is not true.

13 Q. How far is the hill from the house?

14 A. Two kilometres away from where my house and our houses were.

15 Q. Thank you very much for your clarification. Judging by what you

16 said here in your testimony yesterday, your brother told you, in great

17 detail, about what happened in that area.

18 A. He told me about the fall of Obadi, but if you ask me more

19 questions, I will answer you.

20 Q. You must know that Likari is the first Muslim village that was

21 attacked, burnt down, and whose population was expelled from the village

22 in this entire region and they were attacked precisely by the unit from

23 the Obadi area. Do you know about that?

24 A. I've heard about it.

25 Q. Obadi is a small village. Please, tell the Trial Chamber how many

Page 7333

1 houses were there?

2 A. Maybe about 20 households.

3 Q. So everybody knew what was happening. Did your brother tell you

4 that five Muslim women were captured in Likari on the 24th of April, 1992

5 and taken to Obadi where they were raped, until the 12th of June, 1992

6 continually until they were found by Muslims and set free. Did your

7 brother tell you about that?

8 A. He never mentioned that at all.

9 Q. Things like that do not happen every day, do they?

10 A. I don't know about that. If I knew about it, I would tell you.

11 Q. Now I will be asking you some questions that pertain to the attack

12 itself. As you testified yesterday, you said that you were awoken by

13 shots, which means that the fighting in Bjelovac started early?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Do you remember that you gave a statement to the investigators of

16 the -- this Tribunal, in May, year 2000?

17 A. Yes, I think it was in Milici.

18 Q. You signed that statement, did you not?

19 A. I think I did.

20 Q. You said, on that occasion, that you went to your sister's house

21 and that there you found your brother, Milan Petrovic.

22 A. Mladen Petrovic.

23 Q. Mladen Petrovic. His nickname was Mile?

24 A. No. That is my cousin, in fact my nephew, my brother's son. He

25 also lives in Mileci [phoen].

Page 7334

1 Q. Thank you for the clarification. In fact, you went to Petko

2 Vucetic's house?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Petko Vucetic, Mladen Petrovic, and you were, at that time,

5 fighters of the Bratunac Brigade; is that correct?

6 A. Of the Bjelovac Brigade. In fact it did belong to -- it was under

7 the Bratunac.

8 Q. In your sister's house, you spent the entire day there, yes?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. In fact, together with your brother and your brother-in-law, you

11 participated in the fighting. You opened fire on the attackers from the

12 house. Is that correct?

13 A. No. That is not correct.

14 Q. Could you -- do you want to tell us that you just sat there

15 quietly, waiting for the attackers to pick you up?

16 A. I was on guard duty in the first shift. The weapons was left

17 behind in the trenches for the next shift to pick up. So I did not have

18 weapons with me.

19 Q. Do you want to say that your brother and your brother-in-law did

20 not have any weapons either?

21 A. The brother that was in the house had never used any weapons ever,

22 because he was retarded.

23 Q. What about your brother-in-law?

24 A. My brother-in-law did not have any weapons with him. The weapon

25 remained in the trench in front of the house.

Page 7335

1 Q. Would you agree with me that many people had weapons except, at

2 that point of time, you, and what you said. And would you agree that many

3 people had weapons in their houses and fired at the attackers?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Thank you. Your house was set on fire after it became dark on the

6 14th of December, 1992. Is that right?

7 A. No. Not after it became dark. It was rather early in the

8 morning, before sunrise.

9 Q. Witness, I just told you that you gave a statement in 2000, and

10 now I would like to draw your attention to a part of your statement given

11 to the investigators so that we may clarify it. On page 2, paragraph 4,

12 if needed I can give you this text, you said the following, and I am

13 quoting.

14 "After I moved to my sister's and when the dark fell, when the

15 light fell, I saw from my sister's house that three soldiers in uniform

16 and two persons in civil clothes, entering my house."

17 Then further down you said: "There were about -- in the house

18 there -- they stayed for about five to ten minutes. And the moment they

19 came out I saw flames coming out of one of the rooms facing the main road

20 of the village. The house was not fully gutted by the fire. At this

21 time, there was an intense exchange of fire."

22 Therefore, witness, would you like me to give you the statement so

23 that you can take a look at it?

24 A. [No audible response]

25 Q. You said explicitly to the investigators that you saw your house

Page 7336

1 being set on fire after it became dark.

2 JUDGE AGIUS: One moment, one moment, because you asked the

3 witness -- you said, therefore, witness, would you like me to give you the

4 statement so that you can take a look at it. And on my transcript here I

5 have "no audible response," which I confirm. I did not hear the witness

6 say yes or no, because, Ms. Vidovic, you had already jumped in with your

7 next question. So let's go back to that.

8 Do you want to have the statement available in front of you,

9 Mr. Petrovic?

10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] There is no need for that. I know

11 the statement almost by heart.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. So your next question, Ms. Vidovic.

13 MS. SELLERS: Your Honour, excuse me. Might I make a suggestion.

14 In terms of clarification, I think Madam Vidovic is talking about it being

15 dark. The statement says when light fell. If we can just get

16 clarification as to what does the witness understand by that phrase, I

17 think we might be able to move forward.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: Well, the witness did not use that phrase in

19 English. That's a translation of what he said.

20 MS. SELLERS: Yes.

21 JUDGE AGIUS: So perhaps we can leave him -- let him explain to us

22 according to him when these events, what time of the day these events took

23 place.

24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] That happened in the morning, very

25 early in the morning. Perhaps the term used was "when the dark lifted."

Page 7337

1 You know maybe that's what they were trying to say, "when the dark

2 lifted," rather than when the light fell, because it was in the morning.

3 I don't know if this makes it clearer.

4 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

5 Q. This kind of a phrase, in our language, does not really exist, the

6 phrase "when the darkness lifted" or vanished, doesn't it? What would

7 that mean when the dark vanished?

8 A. Well, that would mean that it became light, that the day broke.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: Excuse me. Which expression would you have used, if

10 you remember? Which expression would you have used or did you use with

11 the persons who were interviewing you, in your own language, to explain

12 what time of the day this particular event happened?

13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] This event took place early in the

14 morning.

15 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. Let's continue, Ms. Vidovic, please.

16 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

17 Q. In the statement given to the investigators of this Tribunal, you

18 said, and I just pointed it out to you, that at that time there was a very

19 intense exchange of fire. You said, actually, that your house had been

20 set on fire at a time when there was a very intense exchange of fire. Is

21 that true?

22 A. I don't remember stating it in those terms.

23 Q. I will now read out to you the following passage on page 2, the

24 penultimate passage in the B/C/S version, which is approximately the same

25 in the English version. You said: At this time there was an intense

Page 7338

1 exchange of fire. I saw that after my house many other houses in Bjelovac

2 were also set on fire. Did you state this, witness?

3 A. I don't remember. I don't remember saying this about the exchange

4 of fire. However, I remember very well stating this about the houses.

5 Q. All right. Thank you, witness. How far is Sikirici from the

6 location where you were at the time when you said that you saw the houses

7 burning in Sikirici?

8 A. 300 to 400 metres. Sikirici borders with Bjelovac.

9 Q. You personally did not see what was going on in Sikirici?

10 A. No. I was able to see only the fire rising from the houses.

11 Nothing else.

12 Q. Thank you. Yesterday, during your testimony, you said that

13 towards the end of the day some kind of a reinforcement arrived from

14 Bratunac. You said that these were the guards and then the Muslim forces

15 withdrew.

16 Then you explained that this took place at around 3.30.

17 Therefore, it is true, isn't it, that the Muslim forces --

18 MS. SELLERS: Pardon me. I hate to interrupt. I believe that the

19 witness's testimony was that the Muslim forces retreated and then the

20 guards or forces from Bratunac came, which is slightly different from the

21 question that is being put to him.

22 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Very well. Thank you. I will

23 reformulate the question.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, yes. It's actually in the inverse unless it

25 has been interpreted the opposite way to us, because here, what we have in

Page 7339

1 the transcript is that you said that these were -- these were the guards

2 and then the Muslim forces withdrew. And yesterday you definitely hinted

3 or agreed that, first the Muslims, forces withdrew and after that, the

4 guards came in.

5 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes.


7 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes. Witness, please --

8 JUDGE AGIUS: If you could re-ask it.

9 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] I will, I will.

10 Q. Yesterday, during your testimony, you said that the Muslim forces

11 withdrew and then only afterwards did the guards arrive from Bratunac;

12 that's what you said?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Actually, what is true is that the Muslim forces withdrew due to a

15 very intense counterattack of the Serb forces. Isn't that right?

16 A. No. That's not right.

17 Q. It is true, isn't it, that most of the houses were set on fire

18 after the counterattack from Bratunac was launched.

19 A. That isn't true either.

20 Q. You described the defence lines of the village. You said that the

21 defence lines of the village were located on the slope below the Bjelovac

22 forest, and stretched out to the most distant houses in Sikirici. Am I

23 right?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Very well. So the defence lines of the Sikirici village stretched

Page 7340

1 immediately along the houses in Sikirici. Am I right?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. You told us that the Muslims withdrew on the 14th of December,

4 1992, at around 3.00 or 3.30. Then you said that the Serbs had Bjelovac

5 under their control for another two days. I'm asking you this now, it's

6 true, isn't it, that the Army of Republika Srpska evacuated people from

7 Bjelovac.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. You yourself also left Bjelovac?

10 A. On the 15th of December.

11 Q. You did not see what was going on in Bjelovac after that time

12 because you weren't there?

13 A. I was across from Bjelovac, in Grabovica.

14 Q. You were unable to see who was in Bjelovac then -- actually, was

15 it Muslim civilians or Muslim troops, you were unable to see that. Is

16 that right?

17 A. Yes, that's right.

18 Q. Therefore you are confirming to me now that you were unable to see

19 that?

20 A. No. I was unable to see that.

21 Q. Thank you. You also were unable to see the animals being led

22 away.

23 A. No.

24 Q. Very well.

25 [Trial Chamber confers]

Page 7341

1 JUDGE AGIUS: Let's -- once this has been raised, let's clear this

2 up. In other words, what is being asked, what you are confirming is that

3 you were not able to see animals being taken, being led away? Is that

4 correct?

5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

6 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours. I have

7 just one more question an then we could break, if the time is convenient.

8 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, please.

9 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

10 Q. Mr. Petrovic, the counterattack which was launched with the

11 arrival of the Serb forces from Bratunac, represented, actually, the

12 intense fighting which took place from the 14th of December, 1992, until

13 the Serbs took control of Bjelovac again. Am I right?

14 A. There was no counter attack whatsoever, because the forces were

15 pulled out of Bjelovac on the 17th.

16 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Very well. We will return to that

17 later. I think that I've just completed with one topic of my examination,

18 and this would be a convenient time for a break, Your Honour.

19 JUDGE AGIUS: So we will have a break of 25 minutes, starting from

20 now. Thank you. Please try, everybody, try to be punctual so that we do

21 not lose any time, if possible. Thank you.

22 --- Recess taken at 3.40 p.m.

23 --- On resuming at 4.10 p.m.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: Let's continue. Madam Vidovic.

25 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, thank you,

Page 7342

1 Your Honours. I couldn't deal without the presence of our assistant.

2 Q. Mr. Petrovic, we will now return to the wider area of Bjelovac in

3 the spring of 1992. During your testimony yesterday, you said, in regards

4 of the weapons possessed by the Serb forces in your area, that originally

5 it belonged to the civilian protection. The civilian protection in our

6 area, however, never had any weapons, is that right?

7 A. Yes, that's right. However, I meant the reserve forces. Perhaps

8 I didn't use the right expression.

9 Q. Actually, these were the weapons of the Territorial Defence, the

10 ones that had been confiscated from the Muslims. Did you understand my

11 question?

12 A. I did understand it; however, I don't know whether it was

13 confiscated from the Muslims. I don't know. I think these weapons came

14 from the Bratunac, from the command. I don't know.

15 Q. Thank you. The JNA and SDS distributed weapons to the villagers

16 in your area, large amounts of various types of weapons. This was done

17 before the war and continued in the beginning of the war. Am I right?

18 A. I don't know about the JNA and what you mean; however, the weapons

19 were distributed. Now as to whether this was done by the SDS party, I

20 don't know.

21 Q. Thank you. It is not true that the weapons were given -- or

22 issued only to hose who were on duty while they were on duty, isn't that

23 right?

24 A. I did not understand you.

25 Q. It is not true that the weapons were issued only to those persons

Page 7343

1 who were on duty and while they were on duty.

2 A. The weapons were kept only in trenches by those persons who were

3 on duty.

4 Q. All right. Thank you. Now, I would like to ask the usher to show

5 Exhibit D101 to the witness. This is a document of the Bratunac Brigade,

6 number 01320211, which shows salaries paid out for the May of 1992, which

7 is an excerpt from the set that I described earlier.

8 Witness, now please take a look at the page with the number

9 01320211. And please take a look at the entry for Rakovac and there

10 follows a description, the first platoon, Rakovac is the place that you

11 showed to us on the map and you told us how far it was from Bjelovac?

12 A. It is five to six kilometres away from Bjelovac.

13 Q. Very well. Thank you. Now, please take a look at this document.

14 It has an entry -- or rather, it has a column, first and last name, year

15 of birth, weapons, and then employment address. I would like to ask you

16 to take a look at this table, take a look at number 2, where it says

17 Petrovic, Janko, born in 1962, PM-72. The same information can be found

18 next to number 15, Milovanovic Stojadin [phoen], and then take a look at

19 number 20, Miladin, Stevic [phoen], both of these persons were issued

20 PM-72. PM-72 is a machine-gun, isn't that right?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And AP stands for automatic rifle, is that right?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Would you agree that this list shows that the persons listed here

25 were issued with weapons as early as May, 1992?

Page 7344

1 A. This list does not pertain to Bjelovac. This pertains to the

2 Bratunac Brigade, Mrs. Vasida [phoen].

3 Q. Witness I'm asking you about Rakovac now. We're dealing with

4 Rakovac now. Do you agree --

5 A. I don't know anything about Rakovac. I don't even know these

6 people. These are not the people from our company. These are people from

7 Rakovac Company and Rakovac is towards Zaluzje and Bjelovac.

8 Q. Thank you for that explanation. However, Mr. Petrovic, based on

9 this list, it seems that a lot of these people were issued with

10 machine-guns?

11 A. Well, looking at this list, I would say yes.

12 Q. Very well. This is it for this exhibit. Now please, I would like

13 you to show the witness Exhibit D103. D103, please. Once again this is

14 the document of the Bratunac Brigade, listing salaries for May of 1992.

15 There is a list of soldiers who had 102-millimetre mortars.

16 Please take a look at this list, witness. Yesterday, in the course of

17 your testimony, you mentioned Pobrdje several times. Is that right?

18 A. I mentioned Pobrdje only when I said that my father went there.

19 Q. Yes. And you also said that your sister lived there. Is that

20 right?

21 A. Not my sister, but my father's sister.

22 Q. Very well. Your father's sister. Therefore you had relatives in

23 that place, is that right?

24 A. Yes. My aunt lived there.

25 Q. All right, witness. Now please take a look at this list. The

Page 7345

1 first five persons are from Pobrdje. Do you know any of them?

2 A. I know some of them.

3 Q. Please tell us, who do you know?

4 A. Savo Lukic.

5 Q. Thank you. The title says "list of soldiers of platoon with

6 120-millimetre mortars". So it is true that they had these 120-millimetre

7 mortars, is that right?

8 A. Well, based on this list, it would seem so, yes.

9 Q. Do you know that Savo Lukic was servicing a mortar?

10 A. No, I don't know that.

11 Q. All right.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: One moment, because he said "no" before you had

13 finished the question, or rather halfway through. So, could you please

14 repeat the question and then he will tell us what he was saying "no" for.

15 Because, as it is, it seemed to be, he stopped you when he said -- do you

16 know that Savo Lukic, and he said "no" then you continued with the rest of

17 the question, which he never answered.

18 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

19 Q. Witness, you said that you knew Savo Lukic, right?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And you said that you did not know whether or not he was assigned

22 to the mortar -- to service the mortar.

23 A. I don't know.

24 Q. I wanted to ask you something else, in relation to this. A

25 120-millimetre mortar is a heavy artillery piece which is highly

Page 7346












12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and

13 English transcripts.













Page 7347

1 destructive. Do you know that?

2 A. I do know that, but I never used it.

3 Q. Thank you. Do you know if there were any mortars in this area of

4 Pobrdje, around Bjelovac, within an area of five square kilometres, at

5 least as off May 1992 and onwards?

6 A. I think there were.

7 Q. Can you please tell the Trial Chamber the location, where these

8 artillery pieces that you know about, were deployed.

9 A. I can't say that. I don't know where they were deployed.

10 Q. But there were such weapons there?

11 A. Probably. Based on this list, there were.

12 Q. Thank you. Mr. Petrovic, you spoke yesterday about mobilisation.

13 This happened from mid-April 1992 onwards. Is that correct?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. In your testimony, you said that you yourself had been mobilised

16 on the 18th of April, 1992.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And that the other residents of Bjelovac and the surrounding

19 villages had also been mobilised and you were no exception in this regard.

20 Is that correct?

21 A. I was not an exception.

22 Q. Now I would like to ask the usher to show a document to the

23 witness. This is an excerpt from a book, a registry of military

24 personnel, VOP8A. It is a large book, and the excerpt runs from page

25 01315496 to 1 -- 01315585, and this is the list of the personnel of the

Page 7348

1 2nd Infantry Battalion. Could you please look at the list 01315571 and

2 then the page after that, in order to clarify things for the Trial

3 Chamber, and let me explain to you that page 01315572 is, in fact, the

4 second part of the page 01315571, because, apparently not all columns

5 could have been scanned on the same page. So these two pages should in

6 fact be looked at in -- as a single page.

7 Could you please have a look at this number, 85. Under number 85,

8 that would be your name, Nikola Petrovic, father's name, Mirko. Year of

9 birth, 1959?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Could you please look at the next page. It says here that you

12 were mobilised on the 18th of April, 1992.

13 A. That's the next page, yes.

14 Q. Could you please look at the first column. It says here date of

15 entry into the armed forces, then you have the date here. And it is empty

16 for those persons where the same date would apply.

17 A. Yes, I agree with that. It says 18th of April, 1992.

18 Q. Could you now please look at number 82, that's Slavoljub Rankic,

19 father's name, Nedjo, year of birth 1951. That is the commander of your

20 company. Is that so, that's the person I asked you about?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Do you agree that this document provides accurate information?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Thank you very much.

25 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] I would like this document to be

Page 7349

1 given an exhibit number.

2 JUDGE AGIUS: This document -- however you have not given --

3 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please, Your Honour.

4 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Sorry. You haven't yet given a number to the

5 previous document. So would he need to start with that one, Ms. Vidovic.

6 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes. Thank you, Your Honour.


8 JUDGE AGIUS: That will be Defence Exhibit D252. And this

9 document will be D253.

10 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

11 Q. Mr. Petrovic, the 18th of April, 1992, is the time when the

12 Muslims in Bratunac and Srebrenica area received the order to surrender

13 their weapons. Do you know about that?

14 A. I don't know about that.

15 Q. Yesterday, as you testified, you told us that you had been issued

16 a weapon only for defensive purposes.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Are you claiming now that it is true that you received a weapon

19 just for the purpose of defending your villages?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. From the 18th of April, 1992, as of that date, you were a member

22 of the Territorial Defence in Bratunac or its section which was the

23 Bjelovac TO. Do you agree?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. This was not a village guard. This was a regular unit of the

Page 7350

1 Serbian Territorial Defence. Am I correct?

2 A. Those were civilian guards. No Territorial Defence. We only

3 defended Bjelovac.

4 Q. So this is your testimony. In Sase there was a Territorial

5 Defence unit, just as it did in Rakovac, Pobrdje, am I correct? Do you

6 know about that?

7 A. Probably there were such units. I didn't go there, but probably

8 there were.

9 Q. An officer from Bratunac would come to Bjelovac and organise the

10 units, the unit. You told us that he would come and leave, that he would

11 visit the mobilised people and assign persons to each checkpoint and

12 sentry points. Am I right?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. So there were checkpoints and sentry points in Bjelovac and the

15 area around it?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. This officer, therefore, visited, monitored and assigned people

18 who had been mobilised in Bjelovac. Do you agree with me?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. The Territorial Defence in Bjelovac was a well-organised unit, is

21 it not so?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. From at least May, 1992, and onwards, you received your salaries

24 from Bratunac, is that correct?

25 A. Yes.

Page 7351

1 MS. SELLERS: Your Honours excuse me I think I should have jumped

2 up a bit earlier I just want to say there was a bit mischaracterisation of

3 the testimony. I think we had a question as to whether there was a

4 Territorial Defence in Bjelovac and the answer from the witness was "no,"

5 and then a subsequent question that said: "The Territorial Defence of

6 Bjelovac was a well organised unit." The witness did say "yes," but, I

7 mean, after the witness having said no about a Territorial Defence, to

8 place that phrase in the question is a slight mischaracterisation of the

9 witness's prior testimony.

10 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, you are correct. When that goes on the record,

11 it doesn't really change anything. Most of what is being said is

12 hypothetical. Basically it's ...

13 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I was hoping I would

14 not be forced to use this other document, but I'll -- now I would like the

15 usher to show the witness document, which is a list -- document 012320441,

16 the Territorial Defence in Bjelovac, a list of mobilised persons by

17 platoon. The document is also referring to Bratunac.

18 Q. So this is an excerpt from the whole document, which runs from

19 page 01820384 to 01320458, salaries for July 1992. Witness, could you

20 please look at the first page of this document. Could you please look at

21 what it says at the top of this document. Do you agree that it says the

22 Serbian Republic of Bosnia-Hercegovina, municipality of Bratunac, Bjelovac

23 TO, which means the Territorial Defence of Bjelovac. Could you please

24 look at this list.

25 A. I did.

Page 7352

1 Q. Where it says, under number 7, Petrovic, father's name Mirko,

2 Nikola, is that your name?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. So, Witness, does this now change your opinion as regards the

5 existence of this unit? In other words, doesn't this document show that

6 you were a member of the Territorial Defence in Bjelovac?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Thank you very much, witness.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. This document, I suppose is being tendered,

10 isn't it?

11 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, yes.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: So it is being received as Defence Exhibit D254.

13 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you very much. Now I would

14 like to ask the usher to put defence Exhibit D91 on the ELMO. This is the

15 list of people from the military post code containing names of the persons

16 who received compensation of travel costs for 1992. This is again an

17 excerpt from a long document. I will now dictate the number for the

18 record. That's 01319723 to 01319866.

19 Q. Witness, I would like to ask you to look at page which has this

20 computer generated number 01319818 entitled, the Bjelovac Company. Could

21 you please look at this list. In fact, did you find this, Witness? Where

22 it says the Bjelovac Company?

23 A. Yes. The Bjelovac Company.

24 Q. Could you please look at the name under number 588, Ilic S Novo.

25 Do you know Mr. Novo Ilic?

Page 7353

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Thank you. Could you please now look at the name under number

3 600, Milos Jovanovic, and 603, Milenko Jovanovic. Are these people that

4 you said that their houses were burnt in the village of Jovanovici in

5 1992, on the 14th of December?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. So they were also members of the Bjelovac Company in October,

8 1992, were they not? And from then onwards?

9 A. Yes. Milos Jovanovic was an old man, though.

10 Q. Thank you very much. Now could you look at the next page. Your

11 name is under number 654, Petrovic M Nikola. Number 654, that would be

12 you, right?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Thank you very much, Witness. You can remove this document, and I

15 would now like to -- you to show another Defence Exhibit to the witness,

16 that would be Defence Exhibit D88. This is the list of persons in

17 military post codes, 2465/5. Persons who received their salaries in

18 October 1992. That is also an excerpt from an entire document. Witness,

19 you do not have to look at the entire document so as to save some time,

20 Could you please look at the next page, 01319811, it says, "Armoured and

21 Mechanised Unit." Do you see that?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Could you now look at number 233 and 234, that would be Matic

24 Gordana, and Matic Snjezana, do you agree?

25 A. Yes.

Page 7354

1 Q. Are these people from Bjelovac, daughters of Mrs. Slavka Matic?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. And my question in this regard is: In Bjelovac itself, an

4 Armoured and Mechanised Unit was deployed in Bjelovac, do you know about

5 that?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Radivoje Radovic, nicknamed Raso, was commanding the unit. Is

8 that correct?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Did you know that man?

11 A. No. I think that he was not from -- he was not a local.

12 Q. But he was in Bjelovac?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Mr. Petrovic, as you testified yesterday, you told us that, apart

15 from some light weapons for maybe 30 to 40 people, in other words rifles,

16 you had not received any other weapons, equipment or other things, is that

17 correct?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Whereas, in fact, you in Bjelovac had armoured personnel carriers,

20 tanks, at least as of September 1992. Am I right?

21 A. I'm not -- I'm not sure about the exact date, but, yes.

22 Q. Now, I would like the usher to show the witness document that

23 bears the number 02158988, it is a report on the crime trends in

24 September, 1994. In fact, it is a report that was written by the military

25 Prosecutor, Captain Todor Todorovic. Witness, could you please have a

Page 7355

1 look at that document. You will agree with me that this presents a series

2 of events that the Prosecutor dealt with in that time period. For us, the

3 relevant page is 02158997. It appears under number 3 that it says Milorad

4 Pajic. Did you find it witness? That is on page bearing the computer

5 generated number 02158997. Did you find that page?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. So in the lower part of the text there is number 3 and then it

8 says Milorad Pajic, member of the Armoured and Mechanised Company in

9 Bjelovac, allegedly professional soldier with the contract from the

10 military post code 884 in Banja Luka, because there are grounds for

11 suspicion that on the 14th of September, 1992, at around 10.30 p.m. in the

12 village of Bjelovac, near Bratunac, he threatened a member of the Bjelovac

13 Company, Nikola Petrovic, that he would kill him and put a pistol to his

14 forehead. After Nikola Petrovic managed to disarm him, he went to a

15 nearby tank, fired it up, and put a shell into the breech and threatened

16 that he would fire a shell on to the house of the same soldier.

17 Nikola Petrovic, that would be you?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. So this report by the military Prosecutor indicates that, in

20 September, 1992, there was an Armoured and Mechanised Company stationed in

21 Bjelovac?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. More over, in that company, in addition to people from Bjelovac,

24 there were also soldiers under contract who had arrived there from various

25 cities. This Pajic person arrived from Banja Luka, isn't that right?

Page 7356

1 A. Yes. None of these people were locals.

2 Q. Thank you. Why is it that yesterday, when you spoke about the

3 weapons in Bjelovac, you never mentioned about there being tanks and APCs?

4 A. Nobody asked me that.

5 Q. Thank you.

6 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] I would like for this document to be

7 tendered into evidence and be given an exhibit number.

8 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. So it is document, which is being tendered by

9 the Defence, is being marked D255.

10 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

11 Q. Territorial Defence of Bjelovac, just like other units in that

12 area, starting in November of 1992 and onwards, were part of the Bratunac

13 Brigade. Am I right?

14 A. Yes. They became part of its battalions, is that right?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. All right. I will now show you a document, Defence Exhibit D92.

17 This is a list of military conscripts of the 4th Battalion and pertains to

18 their salaries for December of 1992. Would you please take a look at this

19 document.

20 Mr. Petrovic, this document has several pages. Please go through

21 the document. It says on top the "4th Battalion," and then it goes on to

22 list the names, and I will ask you about certain names. First you have

23 the 1st Company, its units. Then you have mortars. Then there is the 2nd

24 and the 3rd Company.

25 Now please take a look at the 4th Company, which can be found on

Page 7357

1 page 8. Page 8, the 4th Company. So this battalion had four companies;

2 am I right?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. It seems that your name is on the list for the 4th Company.

5 Please take a look at the name under 264, where it says Nikola Petrovic.

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. 263 is Milan Petrovic, son of Mirko. Is that your brother?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. 266 is Petko Vucetic. This is your sister's husband; isn't that

10 right?

11 A. Yes, that's right.

12 Q. All right. And the first person on this list is Slavoljub Rankic,

13 who is the commander of the 4th battalion and I already asked you about

14 him; is that right?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Thank you, witness. Now please take a look at page 1 of the

17 document. Under page 1, or rather on page 1, under the title, it says:

18 Sreten Petrovic, son of Ilija, of the 4th Battalion.

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Isn't it true that in December of 1992 he was the commander of

21 this battalion?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. The headquarters was in Sase?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. On the first page, Mr. Petrovic, there are a number of names under

Page 7358

1 the title, the 1st Company. Now, please turn to page 2 which has the

2 computer number 01320784. And then look at the sub-title, the fourth

3 squad, which is somewhere in the middle of the page, under number 54. We

4 see Kosta Rankic, son of Sreten, commander of the third squad, second

5 platoon and then a number of names follow from number 55 to number 64.

6 Please take a look at these names.

7 I am reading the names. Milojko; Andric, Danica; Sretanic;

8 Milovanovic, Kristina; Rankic, Nada. These are all females names; isn't

9 that right?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. It is true, isn't it, that the military conscripts of the 4th

12 Battalion in December of 1992, included some of the women from Sase and

13 Bjelovac?

14 A. Yes, they were cooks there.

15 Q. Thank you. Please take a look at the name under 62, Stanko --

16 Vojka Milovanovic, daughter of Stanko. Do you know Mrs. Milovanovic? She

17 used to live in Sase at the time.

18 A. I think that she is from Sase.

19 Q. Thank you. Please take a look at page 3 of this document. The

20 long computer number is 01320785. It says, underneath, "the mortar

21 platoon," and then we see that this platoon had three squads. Please look

22 at these names. Do you know any of these people?

23 A. I think that this Milovanovic person is from Sase.

24 Q. In relation to that, I will ask you this. You lived in this area.

25 You are very familiar with it.

Page 7359

1 A. Yes. I'm very familiar with it.

2 Q. I will ask you once again. Do you know where these mortar

3 platoons were deployed?

4 A. If this was in Sase, I truly don't know because I didn't go there.

5 Otherwise, I would tell you. And I think that this pertains to Sase,

6 judging on this name, Milovanovic.

7 Q. All right. Do you know any of the other people on the list?

8 A. [No audible response]

9 Q. All right. Thank you witness, please proceed. Please take a look

10 at the following page. The computer-generated number is 01320786. Please

11 look at the bottom of that page, where it says "the second squad." All

12 the way down at the bottom, where it says "the second squad." Please take

13 a look at the notation which is next to number 143, Milan Milo Milinkovic,

14 19th of December, 1992. Deserted. Then it says Ratko Relic, 20th of

15 December, 1992, deserted. Then number 145, Miodrag Grujicic, deserted on

16 the 20th of December, 1992.

17 Mr. Petrovic, do you agree with me that the Bratunac Brigade,

18 judging by this document, had very accurate records of the presence of

19 their troops and any desertions; am I right?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Now please take a look at page 8 once again. This is the page

22 where you saw previously a list for the 4th Company. And then please take

23 a look at the text that follows the signature of the commander of the 4th

24 Battalion, Sreten Petrovic. It reads the other persons from the 4th

25 Company were killed, were wounded or deserted. It's true, isn't it, that

Page 7360

1 the command of the 4th Battalion had very accurate records of those who

2 participated in combat activities?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. The 4th Company was active in the very centre of Bjelovac, isn't

5 that right, that's your company? I'm speaking about your 4th Company.

6 A. In what period of time?

7 Q. I'm now referring to December of 1992.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Thank you. It's true, isn't it, that these persons listed here

10 were killed or wounded in the attack in December as they were fighting

11 Muslims. Am I right?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Thank you.

14 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] I think that this document has

15 already been admitted into evidence and has exhibit number. Now I would

16 like to ask the usher to show the witness another document from the

17 Bratunac Brigade, which has number 1 -- 01320813. This is a document

18 which comes from the set 013781 and goes to the number 01320876, the

19 entire document has 96 pages and I would like to ask the witness to look

20 at the first page which has the following ERN number, 01320813.

21 Q. Do you see this?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. You will see that it says here the list of soldiers of the 2nd

24 Infantry Battalion, and this is the salary list for December of 1992.

25 Please take a look at the page which has the number 01320813. You will

Page 7361

1 see that there are names of soldiers, their duties, and then column 3 is

2 days spent. Underneath you will see the name Mila Bozic, commander of the

3 battalion.

4 Now please turn to the last page of this document that I just gave

5 you, it has the Prosecutor's number 01320830. This is this long

6 computer-generated number. Please take a look at this page and then turn

7 to the bottom of that page, where it says "recapitulation, salaries for

8 soldiers of the 2nd Infantry Battalion for the December of 1992." Is that

9 what it says there?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Underneath it says: Commander of the battalion, nine -- rather

12 command of the battalion, 9 soldiers. The 1st Company, 108 soldiers. The

13 2nd Company, in Pobrdje, 112 soldiers. The 3rd Company, called Drinska,

14 218 soldiers. The platoon of mortars, 55 soldiers. And I think there is

15 the term "scouts" here. I think that pertains to these soldiers. And

16 underneath it says, "a total of 502 soldiers for the 2nd Infantry

17 Battalion."

18 Mr. Petrovic, all of the places listed here are the ones that you

19 showed us on the map today earlier. Isn't that right?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Now let us go back to the first page of that document, where it

22 says "lists". And look under the number, command of the battalion -- or

23 rather look under the entry, command of the battalion where you see the

24 commander of the battalion and, after that, there are 108 names. I will

25 not dwell on this for very long, but please take a look at the page

Page 7362

1 013201 -- 0817. Please take a look at that page and the first four names

2 listed there. Under number 100, we see Pero Ivanovic. Where it says

3 "soldier" and then in parenthesis, "Kunjerac." Then 101 is Mita

4 Loncarovic [phoen] also from Kunjerac. 102 is Lazar Miluninovic [phoen],

5 the same place, and 103, is Nebeko Nitic [phoen], again from the same

6 place.

7 Let me ask you something about Kunjerac. You mentioned Kunjerac

8 yesterday and you said that, that it was near Bjelovac. Please tell the

9 Chamber what exactly is Kunjerac and how far is it from Bjelovac.

10 A. Kunjerac is a hill just outside of Bjelovac and it is linked to

11 Bjelovac.

12 Q. Thank you very much, witness. Kunjerac is an area where the water

13 works were, which was a real military stronghold with a large number of

14 soldiers, am I right?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Kunjerac was important for the entire defence line of Bjelovac,

17 wasn't it?

18 A. Yes. That's right. There was the water plant there, supplying

19 Bjelovac with water.

20 Q. Thank you. Supplying Bratunac with water interpreter:

21 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction.

22 Q. The Jelav Company was deployed there.

23 A. I don't know. They came from Bratunac, but I don't know what

24 company they belonged to.

25 Q. Thank you. Now please take a look the at Page 5 of the document

Page 7363

1 where it says, Somewhere under number 108, it says the 1st Company, Jelav,

2 a total of 108 soldiers. Then underneath there, there is the name Nebusa

3 Lukic - commander of the 2nd Company. And then there is a list of 112

4 names.

5 Please go all the way down to name 112 where you will find the

6 following words, the 2nd Company, Pobrdje, a total of 112 soldiers.

7 Pobrdje is the place that you have shown us on the map.

8 A. Yes, that's right. That's the first village after Bratunac.

9 Q. Now please take a look under the text where it reads, the 2nd

10 Company, Pobrdje. There is a name Milan Lazic, commander of the 3rd

11 Company called Drinska. Have you found that? This is on page with the

12 ERN number 01320821. Have you found this?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Could you look at the name Milo Lazic where it says commander of

15 the 3rd Drinska Company. Witness, please tell the Trial Chamber where was

16 the headquarters of the Drinska Company, the Drina Company, if you know?

17 Could you look at the list, do you know any of the people?

18 A. Please let me have a moment to look at it. I think that this was

19 probably somewhere in the area of Bratunac, most of the names here are

20 unknown to me. Practically all of them.

21 Q. Could you look at the name under number 210, 210. It says Pero

22 Jovanovic, wounded. Do you know Mr. Jovanovic, Pero?

23 A. Could you please repeat the number?

24 Q. 210.

25 A. I don't know that person.

Page 7364

1 Q. So this was not a person that you mentioned, whose house had been

2 burned down?

3 A. No. This is an elderly man from Jovanovici that I mentioned, his

4 name was Petar.

5 Q. Please now look at page 16. It says here "total for the Drinska

6 Company, 218." And then below that it says, "the Scouts Battalion," or

7 "Reconnaissance Battalion." Do you find that?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. "Reconnaissance Battalion [platoon], Crveni Perica, and underneath

10 that Bosko Neskovic, platoon commander." I want to ask you something about

11 that. Bosko Neskovic was a very well known person in this area. Did you

12 hear about him?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. He was the platoon commander, was he not?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Mr. Petrovic, reconnaissance platoon, Crveni Perica, the word

17 "Crveni," read in English refers to the red berets, does it not?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Thank you very much. Now I would like you to have a look at the

20 name under number 14 on this list. It says Rada Jovanovic. Do you know

21 that person?

22 A. No.

23 Q. Thank you. Can you now go to the next page, that's page 17.

24 Could you now please look at numbers 44, 45, and 46. In fact, 44, 45 and

25 46. Did you find that?

Page 7365

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Next to the number 44 you have the name Slobodan Despotovic,

3 [volunteer], [killed]. Then Radoslav Djukic [volunteer], [killed]. Then

4 Miodrag Cvijic [volunteer], [killed].

5 My question in this regard is: Mr. Petrovic, it's true, is it not

6 that in the Bjelovac area a large number of volunteers from Serbia and the

7 Serbian Krajina in Croatia fought?

8 A. Not in Bjelovac. That would be in the Bratunac Brigade. My

9 answer to that would be "yes," to Bratunac. There were -- there weren't

10 many of the volunteers in Bjelovac.

11 Q. When I'm asking this question, I'm referring to the Bjelovac area

12 and that includes the villages in an area of several kilometres, Zaluzje,

13 Voljevica, Biljaca; am I correct when I say that there were many

14 volunteers fighting there?

15 A. Yes.

16 MS. SELLERS: Your Honour.

17 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.

18 MS. SELLERS: I understand the rapidness of which the witness is

19 responding to Madam Vidovic's question. I just was wondering, could she

20 couch it in a time period. She's couching a broad area, and that's

21 already caused a bit of confusion. Could we just be a bit specific about

22 what time period your question pertains to?

23 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Quite a valid remark. Ms. Vidovic.

24 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you very much, Your Honour,

25 but I believe that it is quite clear, because I showed the -- to the

Page 7366

1 witness, he sees that and I said loud and clear that these are the

2 payrolls for December 1992 and we're talking about people who were in

3 those units in December 1992.

4 I don't know how much more specific I could be. I think that the

5 witness understood me quite clearly. Thank you very much, witness. Let

6 us go on.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: So -- one moment. Your answer is an oblique one.

8 Your last question to the witness was "am I correct when I say that there

9 were will volunteers fighting there, that is in Bjelovac, Zaluzje,

10 Voljavica, et cetera. So your question is, because the witness

11 answered "yes" so we take it, for the record that what your question

12 referred only to December and that the witness is answering only in

13 relation to December 1992. Because I don't think that the question, when

14 you put that question, you were limiting it to December, Ms. Vidovic. And

15 I don't think that the witness was understanding you to be limiting it to

16 December 1992. That was a question that arose out of this series of

17 questions, but I don't think we understood it to be limited by the time

18 frame of this particular document. That's how I understood it at least.

19 Please correct me if I am wrong. I mean, you are free to ask any

20 question. I mean --

21 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you. Thank you, Your Honour.

22 In this series of questions, my questions were limited to the documents,

23 but I will take up on your suggestion and the suggestion of my learned

24 colleague from the Prosecution and we will try to define every question in

25 precise temporal terms.

Page 7367












12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and

13 English transcripts.













Page 7368

1 Q. Witness, I will go back to what we were discussing now. All those

2 units then were present in this area in December 1992, the units that I

3 mentioned, is that correct?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And all those units took part in the fighting between the 14th and

6 the 17th of December, 1992, is it true?

7 A. Do you mean in Bjelovac?

8 Q. I'm referring to the entire area where the fighting was going

9 on, in that time, including what I just mentioned, Bjelovac.

10 A. Yes, yes.

11 Q. Thank you. I showed you a little while ago a name, Slobodan

12 Despotovic, a volunteer who was killed. He's on page -- one of the pages

13 of this document. Did you hear about Mr. Despotic [as interpreted] by any

14 chance?

15 A. No.

16 Q. Fine. Thank you. I will now like a video clip to be played to

17 the witness, that is the Defence Exhibit D97, but I would like the witness

18 to retain this document, because I will be asking some other questions

19 related to this document, so I would like the usher to leave this document

20 with the witness. Thank you. Because we will be needing it.

21 JUDGE AGIUS: In the meantime, Judge Eser has a question.

22 JUDGE ESER: Just a question of clarification. When you take page

23 17, which we have in front of us, the last line, it would say 31 days

24 spent. We are talking about December 1992. So if these people have been

25 killed, I have problems to understand how you can come to 31 days. I

Page 7369

1 don't know whether you would -- can answer or the witness can answer, to

2 perhaps clarify this point.

3 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, this is the document as

4 we received it. I really don't know how it was written. What I do know

5 is that when a soldier is killed, their families receive their salaries

6 for the entire month and of course the witness may now correct me if I am

7 wrong and I will ask the witness this question.

8 Q. Witness, am I correct when I think that if a soldier is killed,

9 his family receives his salary for the entire month.

10 A. I think that it was the case.

11 Q. Thank you very much, witness?

12 JUDGE AGIUS: So let's play the video, please.

13 [Videotape played]

14 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

15 Q. Witness, did you hear -- somebody says, do we know who was killed

16 here, the answer is a Serb. Slobodan Despotovic.

17 Would you please now look at page 17 of this document. The name

18 of Slobodan Despotovic, volunteer, who was killed in December 1992 is on

19 this list, is it not? Could you please look.

20 A. Despotovic under number 44.

21 Q. Yes.

22 A. It's possible. I don't know him.

23 Q. Is his name on this list?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Thank you very much, witness. Now I would like the video to

Page 7370

1 continue.

2 [Videotape played]

3 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

4 Q. Witness, those people that you saw, these are Serb soldiers, are

5 they not?

6 A. I don't know them. Probably. I don't know.

7 Q. Did you see the insignia, the Kokarda insignia on the cap of --

8 not of this soldier but of the soldiers that you saw a little while ago?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. So these are Serb soldiers, are they not?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Please look at this man. This is Svetozar Andric, the commander

13 of the Assault Brigade, is he not?

14 A. I don't know him.

15 Q. Thank you. Did you, witness, see the area, are you able to

16 recognise the area?

17 A. No. No. I'm not.

18 Q. Is this perhaps Voljevica?

19 A. I cannot really tell on the basis of this video.

20 Q. Thank you. Can you continue, please.

21 [Videotape played]

22 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

23 Q. Witness, you've seen this video. Were you able to recognise

24 anyone in this video?

25 A. No. I think that this is actually the entrance to Voljevica, the

Page 7371

1 village of Voljevica.

2 Q. Thank you. Please look at this man here. He is talking about the

3 counterattack of Serbs in the direction of Bjelovac and Kunarac, do you

4 agree?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. This is the commander of the Bratunac Brigade, Borivoje Tesic, is

7 it not?

8 A. Well, his name was mentioned, but I don't know him.

9 Q. Very well. Thank you.

10 MS. SELLERS: Your Honour, excuse me before the next question,

11 just for purposes of the record, I understand that we must be submitting

12 this or looking again at this defence exhibit for the images and not

13 necessarily for the truth of what is being said on the video unless there

14 will be testimony on that. Thank you.

15 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. I think, Ms. Sellers, the same point was made

16 on several occasions, both from your side and from the defence side, and I

17 think the Trial Chamber has explained what their legal position is and the

18 legal approach will be. So ...

19 MS. SELLERS: Yes of course.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: So we don't need to worry about what we have raised.

21 Yes, Madam Vidovic.

22 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Well, we discussed that when D97 was

23 admitted into evidence. Thank you very much, Your Honour. I would just

24 like this large document that we discussed with the witness, I would like

25 that to be admitted into evidence.

Page 7372

1 JUDGE AGIUS: So that will be D256. Registrar, this has become

2 D256.

3 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Now I would like the usher to show

4 the witness two more documents. These are record files. You can perhaps

5 take both of them together to save some time.

6 Q. Witness, please take a look at the record number 01321124. That

7 deals with Zeljko Knezevic son of Vojislav. Please take a look at this

8 document date and place of birth, the 30th of December. Or rather, --

9 rather -- no. Date and place of birth, the 30th of December, 1966, in

10 Peteno Ilov [phoen], date and place when he was killed is the 16th of

11 December, 1992. Kunjerac, killed in combat. Belonged to the Krajina

12 Battalion.

13 Witness, please look at this document and I will ask you something

14 in relation to it. During your testimony yesterday, you claimed that on

15 the 15th and the 16th of December, there was no combat in Bjelovac and

16 around it. Kunjerac is the hill linked to Bjelovac. Therefore, does this

17 document show something else?

18 A. No, it doesn't.

19 Q. Can you please explain it to the Chamber.

20 A. I stated in my statement, as far as I can remember, that on the

21 15th there was no fire coming from the Muslim side when we were retrieving

22 the bodies of the dead. If I remember, that's what I stated.

23 Q. On the 16th?

24 A. No. On the 15th.

25 Q. What about the 16th?

Page 7373

1 A. I was absent on the 16th. I attended a funeral and I don't know

2 what happened. I just told you that there was no fire coming from the

3 Muslim side on the previous day, because on that day we were collecting

4 the dead bodies.

5 Q. All right. Do we agree that it states here, in this document,

6 that this person was killed in combat on the 16th of December, 1992, in

7 that area?

8 A. Yes, that's what the document shows. However, I never heard of

9 this person.

10 Q. All right. So this is Zeljko Knezevic,, son of Vojislav?

11 A. Yes, but I don't know him and the village where he was born, I

12 never heard about it before.

13 Q. All right. Thank you. Mr. Petrovic, when giving evidence

14 yesterday, you said that the Serb forces, as you called them, were issued

15 an order to withdraw on the 17th of December, 1992, to withdraw from the

16 Bjelovac area.

17 I will ask you in relation to that, the following. At that time

18 you were not a member of the command issuing this order?

19 A. No, I was not.

20 Q. You did not see the document related to this order?

21 A. No.

22 Q. You also testified that you were not a member of the units

23 carrying out combat activity on the 15th and 16th and 17th of December,

24 but rather that you were in Bratunac or in Serbia, at that time. Am I

25 right?

Page 7374

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Therefore, as for the fact that the order was issued, you don't

3 have any valid information that could confirm it or disprove it?

4 A. I do not. However, those who were in Bjelovac told me that it had

5 been ordered that they withdraw from Bjelovac.

6 Q. So if they were misinformed, you were misinformed as well.

7 A. Yes, that's correct.

8 Q. All right. Now, please take a look at another record --

9 JUDGE AGIUS: For the record, because I don't think it has been

10 mentioned. The previous series of questions were related to the document,

11 which is now going to be marked D257, and which bears ERN number 01321124.

12 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.

13 Q. Witness, now please look at this second record, about the killing

14 of a soldier. The soldier is Stanoje, Maric, son of Rade, born in of a

15 soldier. The soldier is Stanoje, Maric, son of Rade, born 1952, in

16 Strpci, killed on the 22nd of December 1992, in Voljevica, Pobrdje.

17 Killed in combat. Was a member of the Krajina Battalion.

18 Mr. Petrovic, do you agree with me that the Serb forces from this

19 area did not withdraw on the 17th of December, 1992.

20 A. I do not agree. This soldier who was killed was killed in

21 Voljevica, in the area where the entry point in Voljevica is. The Serb

22 troops were in Pobrdje at the time, whereas Muslims were in Voljevica.

23 Q. Do you agree that they fought each other during that period of

24 time?

25 A. I was not present. It is possible. However, this soldier and the

Page 7375

1 document here do not pertain to Bjelovac. There was no one in Bjelovac at

2 the time.

3 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you. I would like this

4 document to be exhibited as well.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. This will be D258.

6 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Something else in relation to this

7 document that I wanted to ask you about. Therefore, in Bjelovac and in

8 you about. Therefore, in Bjelovac and in its surrounding area, including

9 Voljevica, Sikirici, Zaluzje, it wasn't only the second and the 4th

10 Battalion of the Bratunac Brigade that were deployed together with the red

11 berets but there was also the 6th Krajina Battalion. Isn't that right?

12 A. It's possible.

13 Q. Thank you. I will ask you some other questions now about the

14 evidence you gave yesterday. You told us that the Muslims withdrew from

15 Bjelovac at around 3.30 on the 14th of December, 1992.

16 Actually, will you agree with me that simultaneously with their

17 withdrawal or as they were withdrawing, they were subjected to a very

18 intense shelling, launched from Serbia?

19 A. No.

20 Q. You said that on the 14th of December, 1992, you were in Bjelovac

21 the whole day. And you said that you noticed -- observed one plane

22 bombing Bjelovac in the afternoon hours. Did I understand you well?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. This plane dropped bombs on the houses in Bjelovac, isn't that

25 right?

Page 7376

1 A. I heard two detonations.

2 Q. You saw one such crater in the vicinity of a house in Bjelovac?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Mr. Petrovic, you can distinguish between the time of the day, you

5 can distinguish between the morning and the afternoon, isn't that right?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. If I suggest to you that the bombing lasted much longer than you

8 stated and that it actually started at 9.00 and 26 minutes in the morning;

9 would you accept that?

10 A. No.

11 Q. You had to see this, or hear the sound of the planes, or the

12 plane.

13 A. I both heard and saw the plane.

14 Q. Thank you, witness. I will ask you something else now. The

15 houses of the Jovanovic family are located in the vicinity of a large

16 forest; isn't that right?

17 A. Yes.

18 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, if this is a good time

19 for a break, then I will ask for it, but I don't know. I might even be

20 able to reduce my numbers -- my questions. Otherwise, if you think that

21 we should continue, I can continue.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, let's -- because I actually have my attention

23 has been drawn by the registry to make sure, before the break, to know

24 exactly where we stand. Because obviously if we spill over and need

25 Monday, they have to make arrangements for interpreters and other things.

Page 7377

1 Do you think you will finish your cross-examination today? And if you

2 think you will, how much time do you think you still require?

3 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honours. I will

4 definitely conclude the examination. Perhaps I need another 15 minutes,

5 at the most. And this is why I wanted to consult my colleague, to see

6 whether I can shorten this. But I will not require more than 15 minutes

7 at any rate.

8 JUDGE AGIUS: On the assumption that you don't know what the rest

9 of the questions and the rest of the answers are going to be during these

10 15 minutes, do you think there will be a re-examination on your part?

11 MS. SELLERS: Your Honour, there will be a re-examination. It

12 will be extremely brief, though. Five minutes.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: Do you have any questions? We still have ten

14 minutes for the break. Assuming that on past experience, 15 minutes by

15 Madam Vidovic means 20 or 25, can we continue and then call it a day?

16 Finish? From on the right I see nodding, on the left? Yes. Technicians?

17 All right. So let's proceed and we won't have a break, we will continue

18 until we finish, provided that we try to finish within the next 20, 25

19 minutes. We don't have any questions. I don't have any questions either.

20 And there doesn't seem to be --

21 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you. Your Honour, I just need

22 one minute to consult my colleague.

23 JUDGE AGIUS: All right.

24 [Trial Chamber confers]

25 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

Page 7378

1 Q. Witness, I will ask you just several more questions now and will

2 show you, I think, just one or perhaps two documents. The fighting around

3 Bjelovac continued, in fact, until Bjelovac was once again taken by the

4 Serbs. Do you have any knowledge of this?

5 A. The fighting did not continue until Bjelovac was taken again.

6 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] All right. Could the usher please

7 show a document to the witness. It has number, ERN number 00675457. This

8 is a document of the Bratunac Brigade dated the 29th of January, 1993.

9 Witness, please look at this document. This is a combat report

10 sent to the command of the 2nd Corps.

11 A. You mean Drina Corps?

12 Q. Yes, you're right, Drina Corps. I apologise for my mistake. I

13 will now quote paragraph 6 to you. Can you find it? Please take a look

14 at this. So, this is dated the 29th of January, 1992. Paragraph 6 says:

15 Special Brigade and the 2nd Infantry Battalion, with artillery and tank

16 support of the army of Yugoslavia, are to conduct activities in Voljevica,

17 Kunjerac. The 2nd Battalion is the one we mentioned earlier. And I will

18 ask you do you agree that the fighting for the second taking of Bjelovac,

19 indeed took place? Does this document effect your position in any way?

20 A. May I explain?

21 Q. Yes, please go ahead.

22 A. These are the attacks that were carried out from Bratunac towards

23 Bjelovac. So the combat activities originated from Bratunac, as I've

24 mentioned earlier. At the time there was no one in Bjelovac.

25 Q. Witness, please understand what I'm saying. I'm not trying to

Page 7379

1 suggest to you or to prove to you that the fighting originated from

2 Bjelovac. I'm simply asking you about combat activity in that area. I am

3 not trying to prove that Bjelovac at that time was the epicentre of the

4 world and that everything originated from there. Therefore, would you

5 agree that when Bjelovac was retaken, there was a new combat waged there.

6 Does this document affect your previous answer?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Very well.

9 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Can this document be exhibited,

10 please.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. This will be exhibit -- yes, this will be

12 exhibit, Defence Exhibit 259. Judge Eser?

13 JUDGE ESER: I have a question with regard to the transcript in

14 comparison to the document, the transcript reads --

15 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone please, for Your Honour.

16 JUDGE ESER: In the transcript, we can read on line 23 of 71,

17 paragraph 6 says: "Special Brigade of 2nd Infantry Battalion with

18 artillery and with tank support of the army of Yugoslavia are to conduct

19 activities in Voljevica, Kunjerac." Now at least in the English

20 translation of the document, it is not mentioned that, the support of the

21 Army of Yugoslavia. Just to make sure that we have a correct translation.

22 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, the document says as

23 follows: "Tasks of the units, special brigades and the 2nd Infantry

24 Battalion, together with artillery and tank support," and then in

25 parenthesis it says: "VJ."

Page 7380

1 Witness, do you agree that VJ stands for the army of Yugoslavia?

2 A. It's possible.

3 Q. And then the rest follows.

4 JUDGE ESER: This was not contained in the English translation.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you, Judge Eser.

6 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, thank you. Thank you. In the

7 future I will try to keep an eye on this.

8 Could this document please be exhibited, if it hasn't been

9 already.

10 JUDGE AGIUS: It has already become 259.

11 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] I would like the usher to assist us

12 and show another document to the witness. 01331837. This is the document

13 of the command of the Light Infantry Brigade of Bratunac, the 2nd of

14 February, 1993. Report sent to the command of the Drina Corps. Please

15 take a look at this document, witness.

16 I will show you just a very brief passage in that document. In

17 paragraph 2, it says: Our forces are defending positions with artillery

18 support, carrying out active operations on the axis, Zaluzje, Bjelovac.

19 Do you know anything about these acts of operations conducted with

20 artillery support in the direction of Bjelovac?

21 A. I do not know anything about it.

22 Q. Now, in relation to that, I will ask you this. You, yourself,

23 were not in Bjelovac after the Muslims entered the place and know nothing

24 about what was going on there. Is that right?

25 A. Yes. I was there only on the 14th.

Page 7381

1 Q. Yes. That's right. And you don't know whether there were

2 civilians or soldiers in that area?

3 A. You mean in Bjelovac?

4 Q. Yes.

5 A. When?

6 Q. In the period following your departure from Bjelovac in January

7 and February of 1993.

8 A. No.

9 Q. You know nothing about it?

10 A. No.


12 Q. All right. Can this document be also exhibited?

13 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. This document will now become Defence Exhibit

14 D260.

15 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

16 Q. When testifying about Kemo who you have mentioned today, you said

17 that before the war the police could do nothing to him. You will agree

18 with me, won't you, that we in Bosnia-Herzegovina and in the former

19 Yugoslavia had a very good and very well organised police force?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And that police, as it was, could do nothing to Kemo, was

22 completely helpless?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Thank you. The Prosecutor showed a photograph to you, in which

25 you recognised Mr. Oric. You have no idea who made that photograph or

Page 7382

1 when?

2 A. No.

3 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours, I have no

4 further questions for the witness.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you, Madam Vidovic. And I also wish to

6 express my appreciation for having kept your cross-examination to an

7 extent which would allow us to send the witness back home this weekend.

8 Ms. Sellers, I understand you have a short - and I mean it -

9 re-examination.

10 MS. SELLERS: Yes, Your Honour very short.

11 Re-examined by Ms. Sellers:


13 Q. Mr. Petrovic, you testified concerning the attack on Bjelovac

14 during the cross-examination and the different houses that had burned.

15 I just want to ask you. When you left Bjelovac, after the attack,

16 and went to the funerals in Bratunac, did you speak to anyone or did

17 anyone tell you at that time that fighting was continuing in Bjelovac on

18 the 15th of December?

19 A. I was in Bjelovac on the 15th.

20 Q. The 16th. I'm sorry.

21 JUDGE AGIUS: The 15th they were collecting the bodies, the 16th

22 he went to the funeral in Bratunac.

23 So the question basically comes to this: On the 16th of

24 December, when you were attending that funeral, during that day, did

25 anyone tell you or bring to your attention that fighting was continuing in

Page 7383

1 Bjelovac, on that day?

2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No.


4 Q. And on the 17th of December, you testified on cross-examination

5 that you were in Serbia. And were you in Grabovica on the 17th, as you

6 testified in direct examination?

7 A. Yes, I was there in Grabovica on the 17th.

8 Q. Now when you were in Grabovica on the 17th, and had occasion to

9 look into Bjelovac, did you see any fighting or hear any fighting,

10 exchanges of gunfire going on on the 17th?

11 A. No, no, I did not.

12 Q. And was that the day that you saw the remaining part of the

13 village burning, on the 17th of December, 1992?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Now, you've been asked where your house was located on

16 cross-examination and you've been asked about the other houses that burned

17 in Bjelovac on cross-examination and I'm speaking about the 14th of

18 December, 1992.

19 When your house was burning, or the other houses, did you, at any

20 time, hear the soldiers ask people to come out of their houses prior to

21 them being burned?

22 A. No.

23 Q. Also in cross-examination you said that you -- you testified that

24 you did not have any weapons on the 14th and that you spent that day at

25 your sister's house. Therefore, would it be true to state that when your

Page 7384

1 house burned on the 14th, that there was no gunfire coming from your

2 house, there was no one in your house that was defending your house or

3 causing your house at that moment to be a military target?

4 JUDGE AGIUS: I think that question was specifically put to him

5 and answered during cross.

6 MS. SELLERS: Fine, Your Honour.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: And I think he has made it clear there was no one

8 with a weapon inside the house and there was no shooting from the house.

9 MS. SELLERS: Thank you.

10 JUDGE AGIUS: He has answered that question already.

11 MS. SELLERS: So I can take that as being confirmed, Your Honour.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, yes, he has answered the question. If you

13 doubt my word, and it won't be the first time I have made a mistake, we

14 can check the transcript. But he said -- I'm quite positive about it.

15 MS. SELLERS: Then that's the extent of my re-exam.

16 JUDGE AGIUS: Because he explained how his weapon was in the

17 trench, how his brother who is slightly retarded never handled a weapon,

18 and how the other person, his cousin or nephew, or whatever, did not have

19 a weapon. The weapon was in the trench in front of the house, he said.

20 MS. SELLERS: Your Honour, I'm confirming in his house, not in his

21 sister's house, there was no gunfire coming out of that house.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, yes.

23 MS. SELLERS: Thank you.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: No further questions? I don't have any further

25 questions either.

Page 7385

1 We made it, Mr. Petrovic. I was afraid that you would have had to

2 stay here the weekend and then Monday and then possibly leave Tuesday or

3 Wednesday, but you will be able to go back to your family this weekend. I

4 am sure that our Staff will have already started making all of the

5 necessary arrangements to return you back home.

6 On behalf of Judge Brydensholt, Judge Eser, and myself, and on

7 behalf of the Tribunal, I wish to thank you for having come over to give

8 testimony. And on behalf of everyone, I also wish you a safe journey back

9 home.

10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: Usher, you may escort the witness out. Let's

12 conclude.

13 [The witness stands down]

14 JUDGE AGIUS: Monday, therefore, we are not sitting. Tuesday we

15 will have that meeting. You will -- I think I was told the time but I've

16 forgotten it. I haven't forgotten it. I jotted it down but I know it's

17 in the afternoon. But there was a question on -- because of who will be

18 attending and I think it could be shifted to 2.30. I don't know. But

19 anyway, 2.30, I think. 3.00? 3.00, yes. All right.

20 So that's it. By today you are supposed to make available the

21 statements of the witnesses you want to produce, additional witnesses, so

22 that masochistically we would have spent the weekend going through them to

23 see where we stand, but it seems that you don't want us to work over the

24 weekend, Mr. Wubben. Have you received that already?

25 MR. WUBBEN: It should be, and in addition, I can confirm that the

Page 7386

1 witness that was projected to be interviewed for the pending days is still

2 at that process. So you can't have received that --

3 JUDGE AGIUS: Oh, yes, but that is understandable. All right.

4 MR. WUBBEN: There is, however, one I need to check. Pleas bear

5 me a moment.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Thank you.

7 MR. WUBBEN: Thank you.

8 JUDGE AGIUS: Before -- while Mr. Wubben is checking, I think it

9 is my responsibility to thank, once more, the staff, the interpreters, the

10 technicians, and the courtroom staff for having cooperated. I know that

11 sitting for almost two hours at a stretch is tiring.

12 Yes, Mr. Wubben.

13 MR. WUBBEN: Yes, Your Honour. I've been confirmed that, indeed,

14 we -- apart from that witness, we have distributed and there was also this

15 witness who has already testified but will be very limited extent.

16 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, all right.

17 MR. WUBBEN: That statement should also -- and it might be one

18 page or two pages, I don't know, should also.


20 [Trial Chamber confers]

21 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. I thank you. Have a nice weekend, all of

22 you, and see you again on Wednesday.

23 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 6.54 p.m.,

24 to be reconvened on Wednesday, the 20th day of

25 April, 2005 at 9.00 a.m.

Page 7387