1 Monday, 25 September 2006
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.00 a.m.
5 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, good morning everyone. The Chamber will be
6 sitting this week in the absence of Judge Nosworthy who is on other
7 authorised trial business in connection with the trial of Martic.
8 Now, Mr. Marcussen.
9 MR. MARCUSSEN: Good morning, Your Honour. The Prosecution would
10 like to make an application for witness protection measures for an
11 upcoming witness. At some point I would suggest that maybe we could deal
12 with that as the first thing this morning. If Your Honours agree with
13 that, then I would request that we go into private session for a brief
14 moment while we deal with that.
15 JUDGE BONOMY: This is an application that was intimated on the
16 19th of September. Is that right?
17 MR. MARCUSSEN: Well, we notified the Defence on the 19th of
18 September that we considered making an application at that point in time.
19 We thought -- we had hoped we could make the application in writing, but
20 we did not feel we had the facts sufficiently clear to be able to make a
21 written application and we had only got the last information in for the
22 application yesterday afternoon. So that is why I am on my feet now, Your
24 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
25 Mr. O'Sullivan, can you tell me what the Defence position is in
1 relation to this?
2 MR. O'SULLIVAN: Yes. We have some concerns about this
3 application, in particular the -- whether or not the case is made out to
4 justify the measures requested. And if -- and if the Chamber feels that
5 they are made out, we do have an additional objection to the keeping of
6 this log-book that the Prosecution is requesting from us. We find that a
7 bit onerous that we have to keep a log of any disclosure of this person's
8 identity for the purposes of investigation and that sort of thing.
9 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, we shall hear what Mr. Marcussen has to say
10 in supplement to the e-mail that was sent to the Trial Chamber, which you
11 presumably have a copy of.
12 And just give me a moment before we embark on that.
13 [Trial Chamber and legal officer confer]
14 [Trial Chamber confers]
15 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, Mr. Marcussen, we're satisfied that in view
16 of the issues that are raised by this application, namely the risk to the
17 security of the witness, it is appropriate to hear the application in
18 private session.
19 MR. MARCUSSEN: Thank you, Your Honours.
20 Your Honours --
21 [Private session]
11 Pages 3817-3821 redacted. Private session.
18 [Open session]
19 THE REGISTRAR: We are in open session, Your Honours.
20 JUDGE BONOMY: We are satisfied that the objective test for the
21 granting of protective measures is satisfied in this case, particularly
22 with reference to the likely content of the witness's evidence when taken
23 in association with the various points made by the Prosecution about the
24 witness's basis for his fear, these points also being set out in the
25 e-mail intimating the application.
1 So the witness will be referred to by the pseudonym K83 and will
2 give evidence by voice -- with voice and image distortion.
3 The other measures sought will also be granted and reflected in a
4 written decision. We are reserve our decision on the question of the log
5 to compare the circumstances here with the circumstances in the other
6 cases in which we have required that a log be kept. Only then can we make
7 a final decision on whether this case can be regarded as of such an
8 exceptional nature as to warrant that further measure, but we'll make an
9 announcement of our decision on that in the course of today.
10 Now, that completes the application. We now proceed with the next
11 witness, I take it, Ms. Kravetz.
12 MS. KRAVETZ: Yes, good morning, Your Honours. The next witness
13 is Hamide Fondaj. Ms. Fondaj is a Rule 92 bis (B) -- or what was formerly
14 known as Rule 92 bis (B). I take it now she should be referred to as
15 Rule 92 ter. And the paragraphs to which she refers to in the indictment
16 or that are relevant to her evidence are paragraphs 72(b) [sic], 73, and
17 77 of the indictment --
18 JUDGE BONOMY: Did you say (b) or (d)?
19 MS. KRAVETZ: (B) --
20 JUDGE BONOMY: 72(b). Thank you.
21 MS. KRAVETZ: No -- oh, I'm sorry. Yes, 72(d). She's a Suva Reka
23 JUDGE BONOMY: Yes, so it should be (d) in fact.
24 MS. KRAVETZ: I see the transcript is incorrect.
25 JUDGE BONOMY: 73 and 77. Thank you.
1 Mr. Ackerman, sorry.
2 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, if I may, I would like to formally
3 introduce Ms. Nadia Zed to the Chamber. I have provided the required
4 letters to you this morning and she will be participating today.
5 JUDGE BONOMY: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Ackerman. As you know, the
6 Chamber will recognise Ms. Zed in the course of this week. There is
7 probably one other outstanding document, and Mr. Boas will speak to you
8 about that sometime in the course of the morning.
9 [Trial Chamber confers]
10 [The witness entered court]
11 JUDGE BONOMY: Good morning, Ms. Fondaj.
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.
13 JUDGE BONOMY: Please make the solemn declaration to tell the
14 truth by reading aloud the document which will now be placed before you.
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
16 I solemnly declare that I will speak the truth, the whole truth,
17 and nothing but the truth.
18 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you. Please be seated.
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
20 JUDGE BONOMY: Now, you should know that we already have before us
21 your statement, so we know what it is you will be telling us about, we've
22 read it, we have that information already. The purpose of the questions
23 you will be asked is to clarify things or perhaps to explain some of it
24 more fully and also to enable counsel for the accused to challenge certain
25 things that they may wish to challenge in your evidence. The important
1 thing is to fix your mind on the particular question you're asked and try
2 to concentrate your answer on the point that is raised with you in the
4 The first person to question you then will be for the Prosecution,
5 Ms. Kravetz.
6 Ms. Kravetz.
7 MS. KRAVETZ: Thank you, Your Honour.
8 WITNESS: HAMIDE FONDAJ
9 [Witness answered through interpreter]
10 Examination by Ms. Kravetz:
11 Q. Good morning, Witness.
12 A. Good morning.
13 Q. Could you please state your name, for the record.
14 A. Yes. Hamide Fondaj, from the village of Peqan in the municipality
15 of Suhareke.
16 Q. Thank you. You have just answered my second question actually.
17 Mrs. Fondaj, did you provide a statement to the Office of the
18 Prosecution on 9th June 2001 concerning events that you experienced or
19 witnessed in Kosovo in 1999?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Have you recently had the chance to review your statement,
22 Mrs. Fondaj?
23 A. Yes, I had.
24 Q. In the course of this review of your statement, are you satisfied
25 that the contents of this statement accurately reflect to the best of your
1 knowledge and recollection the truth about the events that are described
2 in the statement?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Thank you.
5 MS. KRAVETZ: Your Honour, I wish to tender this witness's
6 statement as Exhibit P02283.
7 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
8 MS. KRAVETZ:
9 Q. Mrs. Fondaj, on page 3 of your statement you describe how on 21st
10 March you and your family had to leave your village of Peqan because it
11 came under attack of Serb forces. Can you tell us where did you go from
12 your village?
13 A. On the 21st of March, from the village of Peqan, I went to the
14 village of Nishor. I stayed there for a week. During that week, we were
15 shelled also at Nishor, so from Nishor - because we could not stay there
16 anymore --
17 Q. Mrs. Fondaj, I'm going to stop you there. Can I ask you in the
18 interests of saving time that you pay close attention to the questions I
19 ask and only respond to the specific question I'm asking. Thank you.
20 You said the village of Peqan was attacked on 21st of March. At
21 the time of the attack was there any KLA presence in the village of Peqan?
22 A. Yes, there was.
23 Q. Where exactly in the village was the KLA based?
24 A. In the village of Peqan, in our village it was a shop where they
1 Q. And approximately how many members of the KLA were based in Peqan
2 at the time?
3 A. I don't know. I don't know how many of them there were, but I
4 know that there were some.
5 Q. Thank you. At this time, was anyone in your family with the KLA,
6 a member of the KLA?
7 A. Yes, my husband.
8 Q. And was he with you on the day of the attack of -- against Peqan?
9 A. No. He was with the KLA, with the people that were with the KLA.
10 I was alone at home with my children, two children.
11 Q. So you said that from Peqan you went to the village of Nishor and
12 you remained there for one week?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Did you later have to leave the village of Nishor?
15 A. Yes, I had to leave. We spent a whole night in Kasterca village
16 close by.
17 Q. And why did you have to leave the village of -- why did you have
18 to leave the village of Nishor?
19 A. Because of the bombing from the Serb army.
20 Q. When you left Nishor, did you leave alone with your family or did
21 other inhabitants of the village of Nishor also leave on that occasion?
22 A. No. All the inhabitants left, inhabitants from the municipality
23 of Suhareke, the villages, we all left.
24 Q. You said you spent a night in the village of Kasterca? Is that
25 correct? My pronunciation is probably not correct. And where did you
1 continue from there?
2 A. We stayed the whole day in the mountains. At night we left the
3 mountain and we went in the direction of Bellanice.
4 Q. Now, Mrs. Fondaj, why did you head specifically in the direction
5 of Belanica? Why didn't you go to another village or back to Peqan?
6 A. There was nowhere else to go. Every other route was blocked.
7 That was the only route we could take.
8 Q. And you were travelling at this time alone with your family or
9 with other people from the village of Nishor?
10 A. All the families were there from Nishor, Doberdolan, Samadrexha.
11 There were thousands of people.
12 Q. So when you arrived in Belanica, approximately how many people do
13 you estimate had gathered there?
14 A. I don't know how many. There were thousands and thousands of
15 people. You -- there was no place to throw a cat; that's how I could
16 explain it.
17 Q. And where exactly did you stay in the village of Belanica?
18 A. I stayed with family, their surname is Kapexholi. It was close to
19 the corridor in Bellanice, in the middle of the village.
20 Q. And approximately how many people were you in this house with this
22 A. We were about 50 or 60 people in that house.
23 Q. Now, Mrs. Fondaj, on page 3 of your statement you state that on
24 1st April, 1999, Serb forces began firing at houses in Belanica. Were you
25 able to see this firing yourself?
1 A. Yes. Because it -- the bullets flew above our heads, above our
3 Q. And from which direction was the firing coming, originating?
4 A. At the edge of Bellanice. So from the edge of Bellanice, the
5 firing came towards us, above our heads, above the houses. And all the
6 tiles of the roof fell down because of that.
7 Q. At the time this attack against Belanica started, were you -- were
8 you aware of -- if there was any KLA presence in the village?
9 A. No, there weren't.
10 Q. And was there any outgoing fire from Belanica towards these Serb
11 positions from where they were firing?
12 A. No, no.
13 Q. What did you do, Mrs. Fondaj, when you realised that this was
14 happening, when you realised that they were shooting in the direction of
15 the house where you were staying?
16 A. All of us gathered in a basement of that house, and we stayed for
17 about two hours there, the 50 or 60 of us.
18 Q. And did you later decide to leave the house where you were
20 A. No. We decided to go -- to go to the centre of the village, and
21 we decided to go there and stand there, all of us.
22 Q. When you got to the centre of the village, had other people also
23 gathered there or was it just this group of 50 or 60 people?
24 A. No, the whole population was there. Everybody was sitting and
25 standing so tight, very close to each other.
1 Q. And for how long did you remain there?
2 A. We stayed there for about half an hour, and we heard from people
3 that everybody had to get on their tractors and stay there, where we were.
4 We went into the courtyard and we got on the tractors. We were frightened
5 that if we were at home, they would come and get us at home and a massacre
6 would happen. So that's why all of us decided to go to the centre of the
7 village, the whole population, so that we would be together there.
8 Q. You said you heard from people that you had to gather there and
9 take your tractors. From whom did you hear this?
10 A. Well, word after word people were saying that we had to get on our
11 tractors and be there all together, but everybody had to be on their
13 Q. While you were there in this -- in the centre of town, in this
14 clearing, did -- at any time did these forces that were shelling this
15 city -- the town, did you see them enter the village?
16 A. When we were at the house where we were staying -- when we got on
17 the tractors, there were people in masks that came from tractor to
18 tractor. Then they came to our tractor and they asked us to give them a
19 hundred marks, each of us, because if we wouldn't give them a hundred
20 marks they would kill us. So they went from tractor to tractor doing
22 Q. And, Mrs. Fondaj, you said you saw people in masks going from
23 tractor to tractor. Can you describe anything else about these people,
24 what sort of uniform they were wearing, if they were wearing a uniform?
25 A. The first that came had masks on, black masks on, and you could
1 see only their eyes.
2 Q. How were they dressed, these people that approached your tractor?
3 A. Black.
4 Q. For -- you said you stayed there for several hours. Did you at
5 some point leave that area, this clearing where you were in your tractor?
6 A. No. We went into a street, and we stayed the whole night there.
7 It was raining.
8 Q. While you spent the night there outdoors, did anyone else approach
9 your tractor?
10 A. That night it was dark and the whole night nobody came until the
11 morning. We stayed on the tractors in the rain, outside.
12 Q. The following morning, were you able to leave the village of
14 A. No. The next day there was another offensive. They came to our
15 tractors, the policemen. They had bandannas and painted faces, all kinds
16 of uniforms came to our village -- to the village.
17 Q. You said you saw men in different types of uniforms in the
18 village, and what happened when these men approached your tractor?
19 A. Yes. Before they came to us, there were three elderly men who
20 went up to them and asked them: What do you intend to do with the
21 population? And they said: Everybody get on their tractors and put a
22 white sign on the tractor. Those who don't have this white sign will be
24 Q. This happened on the second day of the offensive, what you're now
1 A. Yes, the next day, in the morning.
2 Q. So if I understand correctly, you spent the next day in Belanica?
3 This is the two --
4 A. No, we stayed until the forces came because it was impossible to
5 get out. Everybody was on their tractors. So they came from tractor to
6 tractor until our turn came, my tractor's turn came. It was about 10.00.
7 When they came to us, we had two elderly men on the tractor. They asked
8 money from them. These two elderly men gave them each a hundred marks,
9 and they beat them up because they didn't want just a hundred marks from
11 Q. You say they came and they beat them up. Who are you referring to
13 A. They were uniformed, all kinds of uniforms were there in
14 Bellanice. Some of them had black uniforms and masks. There were
15 policemen. There were people who were naked and had painted bodies. They
16 had knives in their hands and threatened us to slit our necks. All kinds
17 of uniforms.
18 Q. Were you eventually able to leave the town -- the village of
20 A. So after they beat up those two elderly men, they came to me.
21 They pointed the automatic rifle at me and asked: Do you like NATO? I
22 didn't say anything. Do you like Clinton? Do you like Rugova? Where is
23 the KLA? Why are they not protecting you? Where is your husband? But I
24 did not answer.
25 My daughter was on the tractor with me and she was really
1 frightened. At that time she stepped on my foot and told me: Mom, give
2 them the money because they will kill us. And they still had the
3 automatic gun on me, showing to me that they would kill me if I did not
4 give them the money, so I gave them the money. And they went from tractor
5 to tractor doing the same thing.
6 Q. Mrs. Fondaj, I understand what you have just described is in your
7 statement, and I understand they went from tractor to tractor collecting
8 this money. You at some point, according to your statement, headed out of
9 Belanica. Is that correct?
10 A. When we went to the end of the village of Bellanice, which is only
11 about 1 kilometre away, we were stopped about ten times and we gave about
12 10.000 marks. We were, as I said, stopped and asked for money. We were
13 offended. They said all kinds of things to us, but this happened until we
14 got out of Bellanice.
15 Q. When you left Belanica, in which direction did you head?
16 A. We left Bellanice and we wanted to go in the direction of
17 Suhareke. We came across an army convoy, and they told us not to go in
18 the direction of Suhareke but in the direction of Rahovec, and that's what
19 we did.
20 Q. Mrs. Fondaj, on page 4 of your statement you describe how at some
21 point while you were travelling you passed the village -- the town of
22 Malisevo. Is that correct?
23 A. Yes, yes.
24 Q. And when you arrived to Malisevo you state in your written
25 statement that your tractor broke down and that someone ordered you to
1 continue or you would be placed behind a barbed wire?
2 A. Yes. Our tractor broke down, it wouldn't start, so somebody
3 wanted to tow us, but they came and told us: If your tractor won't go,
4 then you have to come beyond this barbed wire. There were women and
5 men -- and old men there and children. But our tractor started and we
6 were towed by another tractor. So we went along.
7 Q. Mrs. Fondaj, you say there were women and children behind the
8 barbed wire. Where exactly were these women and children?
9 A. There was in Malisheve.
10 Q. But where was this barbed wire? Was this a barbed wire along the
11 side of the road or was this on a side of a building?
12 A. I don't know what it was. It was a school or some kind of
13 building. It was surrounded and circled by barbed wire. And these people
14 were staying there. They were told I think that buses would come and take
15 them to the border, but we don't know what happened. We did not see them
17 Q. How many people did you see approximately there? You said "many
18 people." Are you talking about hundreds, thousands of people?
19 A. Thousands, I would say.
20 Q. Mrs. Fondaj, you continued past Malisevo and did you eventually
21 get to the border?
22 A. I would like to say that before we went to Malisheve we were
23 forced to step on the --
24 Q. [Previous translation continues] ... I have to interrupt you here.
25 As you know, the statement is already in evidence. I'm just asking
1 whether you made it across the border into Albania.
2 A. Yes. We went through Krusha e Madhe, Prizren. When we went close
3 to Vermica, we stayed there for one day and one night. The military
4 forces were around the area and they hit my son with a wrench --
5 Q. [Previous translation continues] ... I'm again going to have to
6 stop you. Just one last question. As you were travelling to the border,
7 did you again see any military or police forces on the road?
8 A. Military forces.
9 Q. And did you see them just occasionally or did you see them
10 frequently along the road?
11 A. No. The whole way when we got -- until we got to the border,
12 these military forces were there.
13 Q. Thank you.
14 MS. KRAVETZ: Your Honour, I have no further questions for this
16 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
17 Mr. O'Sullivan.
18 MR. O'SULLIVAN: Now, the order will be: General Lazarevic,
19 Mr. Sainovic, Mr. Milutinovic, General Ojdanic, General Lukic, and General
21 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Cepic.
22 MR. CEPIC: Thank you, Your Honour. Good morning.
23 Cross-examination by Mr. Cepic:
24 Q. [Interpretation] Good morning, Mrs. Fondaj. I name Djuro Cepic,
25 one of the Defence counsel on the team of Vladimir Lazarevic. I would
1 like to put a few questions to you. I'll do my best to make them concise
2 and clear, so I am asking you for clear and concise answers, if possible,
3 and the best thing would be for you to give me yes or no answers. Thank
5 Mrs. Fondaj, in your statement you said that up to the 21st of
6 March, 1999, you were in the village of Pecane, that for the most part all
7 villagers had left the village, or most of them?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. That you used bunkers in front of the house. Is that correct?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. That bunker was made by your husband with his colleagues from the
12 KLA, right?
13 A. No. It was myself and my children that built that.
14 Q. Oh, okay. Thank you. You come to the village of Belanica. You
15 probably know that the KLA headquarters in the village of Belanica was in
16 the school, right?
17 A. No. There weren't any KLA. I didn't see any.
18 Q. Mrs. Fondaj, you said that your husband left you a uniform and
19 some pictures. Did he leave that on that morning when the Serb police
20 entered the village?
21 A. No. He left them at home, but I took them along. I took them in
22 order for the clothes to be sent to him, but for ten days I did not see my
23 husband so I couldn't give them to my husband.
24 Q. And did he continue to move about in civilian clothing, since he
25 had left his uniform behind. Is that right?
1 A. No. He had a uniform, but he was not there and I took this
2 uniform and I was with the other part of the population. I followed the
3 rest of the citizens, where they went when we were on the tractors. I
4 went to Albania. I did not see him anymore.
5 Q. I understand you, Mrs. Fondaj, but what was your husband wearing
6 when he left you? Was he wearing civilian clothing. Isn't that right?
7 A. My husband did not leave me, but he joined the KLA. I don't know
8 where he was, where they went. But the uniform he left at home I took
9 with me, so that probably he would come and meet us and he wanted to
10 change his uniform, so that's why I kept it. But my husband was not with
12 JUDGE BONOMY: You told us that you did not see your husband for
13 ten days. Can you tell us the date when the ten days began?
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes. My husband joined from the
15 time the -- he joined the KLA in the village and he was not with me all
16 that time. I was alone at home with my two children, and I left with the
17 rest of the villagers --
18 JUDGE BONOMY: My question was very specific. You said you did
19 not see him for ten days. Can you tell me, please, when the ten days
21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] On the 21st when we left, I did not
22 see him for the week I stayed in Nishor. I stayed in Bellanice for three
23 or four days, and I did not see him for the whole period.
24 JUDGE BONOMY: Now, when you last saw him on the 21st, what was he
1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] A KLA uniform.
2 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Cepic.
3 MR. CEPIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.
4 Q. Can we conclude, then, that he had two KLA uniforms. Is that
5 right? One that he wore and the other one that he left you?
6 A. Yes, he had a uniform, another one. He had underwear that was
7 available for him.
8 Q. Thank you. You said that in the village of Belanica in the convoy
9 in which you left the village there were mainly elderly men. Were all the
10 younger men with the KLA in the hills? Yes or no.
11 A. I don't know where the men were. Where I was, there were
12 children, elderly people. I didn't see many young people.
13 Q. All right. Thank you. Further on you say in your statement that
14 you were moving along in a convoy by Ostrozub and you see that houses are
15 burned there. Those who were by Ostrozub had uniforms on. Were they
16 people between the ages of 30 and 40?
17 A. I don't know. I didn't see what -- of what age they were. There
18 were policemen, there were people wearing military uniforms, those that
19 burned the houses in Ostrozub while we were passing through there.
20 Q. Due to the distance involved, you could not see any insignia on
21 these military uniforms, right?
22 A. No, they were close. We were moving along the road, and there was
23 army on both sides of the road. And we could see them in groups, in
24 different houses, 15 or 20 in one group torching one house, and another
25 group torching another. Ostrozub is a big village.
1 Q. Thank you. Thank you. They had bandannas on their heads, right?
2 A. No, no. Not there.
3 Q. But you couldn't see any insignia on their shoulders, right? Yes
4 or no, please.
5 A. I didn't see the insignia, no. I didn't have time to do that.
6 Q. Thank you, Mrs. Fondaj. Thank you, Mrs. Fondaj.
7 MR. CEPIC: [Previous translation continues] ... other questions.
8 Thank you.
9 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Fila.
10 MR. FILA: [Interpretation] Your Honour, just one or two questions.
11 Cross-examination by Mr. Fila:
12 Q. [Interpretation] Mrs. Fondaj, I'm Toma Fila, attorney-at-law, and
13 I'm going to put some brief questions to you regarding these uniforms. I
14 don't find this very clear.
15 You said that you saw your husband on the 21st of April, and that
16 he left in a uniform, if I understood you correctly. And then you spent
17 seven days in one village and then three days in another village and then
18 you crossed the border. Could you please tell me, if you remember, when
19 it was you saw your husband again? The 25th of April, and what was the
20 next time?
21 A. I saw my husband on the 21st of March when I left the village, and
22 I didn't see him after that.
23 Q. All right.
24 A. So on the 21st of March when I left the village and went to the
25 other village where I spent a week, that's when I saw him last.
1 Q. And afterwards, when did you next see him? I was the one who
2 misspoke, yes, I made a mistake.
3 A. When I returned from Albania, in June or July, that's when I
4 returned to Kosovo, that's when I saw him.
5 Q. All right. Now we've clarified that. So it's not ten days, it's
6 two months rather. Now, why did he leave his uniform at home? The 21st
7 of March when he left, why did he leave his uniform at home?
8 A. On the 21st of March, he did not leave. He was there with his KLA
9 ranks, but I fled because the village was bombed. And I took my husband's
10 uniform with me. And in Bellanice, out of fear that they might find this
11 uniform, I hid it. And then I crossed the border.
12 Q. I understood all of that. I'm not challenging that, but why did
13 he leave this other uniform with you at home? Why didn't he take it
14 along? Did you understand me? I think it's clear.
15 A. He was in the village on the 21st with the KLA. Let's say he
16 would spend the day there with the KLA, and in the evening he would come
17 in the house and that's where his uniform was. The uniform was in his
18 house because in the evening he would come to his family, to his children.
19 And then again in the morning, he would go to the KLA in the village.
20 Q. And he left his uniform at home?
21 A. Yes, yes, because he would come back home.
22 Q. Thank you. Thank you. All right. All right.
23 I have this other question, too. You said that before you arrived
24 at the border you threw away all your personal belongings like books and
25 food supplies that were marked "USA." That is what you stated, right?
1 What kind of food is, this marked USA? I never heard of such food. I saw
2 bombs marked "USA," but not food. That's what they threw all over
4 A. We had flour, cooking oil during the first offensive, and then
5 during the break between the two offensives they brought us these food
6 supplies as aid. We had pastas, flour, and then we had to leave
7 everything behind because we couldn't take everything with us.
8 Q. My question is who it was that brought this to you. Between two
9 Serb offensives, who brought you this pasta marked "USA"?
10 A. The aid that we received in the village.
11 Q. From whom?
12 A. I don't know. There was a villager who was distributing this
13 food, and I don't know who brought that food to the village. There was a
14 person from my village who was distributing it.
15 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter could not hear Mr. Fila.
16 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Fila, could you repeat that question, please.
17 It was not heard by the interpreter.
18 MR. FILA: [Interpretation]
19 Q. This is the question: Was this aid given to you by Serbs, this
20 aid marked "USA," or was this aid given to you by the KLA?
21 A. Neither by the Serbs nor by the KLA. It was a humanitarian aid.
22 Q. But this was at the time of the Serb offensives. What kind of
23 humanitarian aid was being distributed then, by who, in that period? This
24 is the period of the bombing, you know.
25 A. In 1998, 1998, during the first offensive we received this
1 humanitarian aid too, and in 1999 when we left the village, then we took
2 these food supplies with us.
3 Q. Mrs. Fondaj, had you said "1998" immediately, I wouldn't have even
4 asked you anything. I thought you were talking about 1999.
5 MR. FILA: [Interpretation] No further questions. Thank you.
6 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. O'Sullivan.
7 MR. O'SULLIVAN: No questions.
8 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Sepenuk.
9 MR. SEPENUK: No questions, Your Honour.
10 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Ivetic.
11 MR. IVETIC: Yes, Your Honour, I do have some questions. Thank
13 Cross-examination by Mr. Ivetic:
14 Q. Good morning, Mrs. Fondaj. My name is Dan Ivetic, and I represent
15 Mr. Sreten Lukic, along with my colleagues, Mr. Branko Lukic and Mr. Ozren
16 Ogrizovic here today. And I'm going to have to ask you some questions
17 relative to the testimony you've just given and the statement that we have
18 received from the Prosecutor regarding what you have stated in that
19 statement. And I would ask you merely to pay close attention to what I
20 ask and to try and give me the most truthful and concise answer possible
21 since our time here is limited and we have a number of things we need to
23 Now, my first question will deal with your husband. In your
24 statement you say that he was part of a police independent union. I want
25 to ask you first: Was he armed during the time-period that he was in this
2 A. No, he was not armed. He used to be a policeman but he stopped
4 Q. Okay. We have that --
5 A. He was in civilian clothes.
6 Q. Okay. And just to be clear, this police independent union, this
7 was a parallel structure set up by the Kosovo Albanian political leaders
8 in the area to replace the state institutions of the Republic of Serbia as
9 part of their pro-independence movement. Is that correct?
10 A. I don't know that. I know that he was part of this union. He
11 would go to distribute aid to other people because people were in need of
12 supplies. We were given humanitarian aid by the Red Cross, by Mother
13 Teresa, so --
14 Q. [Previous translation continues] ... heard about the humanitarian
15 aid you've received. I have some other areas I want to question you
17 Now, is it correct that members of the independent police union
18 such as your husband, that most of them became armed fighters within the
19 structure of the so-called UCK/KLA sometime in 1998?
20 A. I don't know about others, but my husband joined the KLA because
21 he was a former prisoner as well and he saw it necessary to join the KLA.
22 Q. Okay --
23 A. For others, I don't know. My husband joined the KLA in 1998.
24 Q. Okay, ma'am. Well, what about in your home village of Pecane. In
25 addition to your husband do you know of any other persons, are there any
1 other men who joined the UCK/KLA from your home village?
2 A. In Peqan, everybody had a member of the family who was a KLA
4 Q. Thank you. And would it be fair to say, ma'am, just as you have
5 stated in your statement that there were active KLA fighters in the
6 village in 1998, would it be also accurate to state that throughout the
7 first few months of 1999 there was a constant presence of KLA fighters
8 located in your home village of Pecane?
9 A. In 1998 up to August, that's when the offensive took place, the
10 village was burned and nobody was in the village. Yes, I understand, but
11 I want to link it up with the period of 1999, early 1999. When we
12 returned, the KLA reorganised itself in Peqan village.
13 Q. Okay. And again, my question was for the first -- for January and
14 February and most of March of 1999, was the KLA constantly present in your
15 home village of Pecane?
16 A. Yes, yes. During these months, yes.
17 Q. Okay. Thank you. And would it also be accurate to state that the
18 UCK/KLA also had a constant and numerous presence in the other surrounding
19 villages in your municipality of Suva Reka, both throughout 1998 and the
20 first three months of 1999? Would that be accurate?
21 A. I don't know for other villages, but I have seen them in my
22 village. And in my statement I've stated things that I've seen myself.
23 Q. Okay. Now, in the surrounding areas, were there Serbian police
24 check-points on the roadways, yes or no?
25 A. Not in Peqan roads. There were in Suhareke, Biraq, and Shiroka.
1 Q. Did you through our own knowledge or through our husband know of
2 any attacks performed by the KLA upon these check-points?
3 A. No, I don't know. I don't know. I was in the village.
4 Q. Okay. And is it correct that the KLA forces in the area engaged
5 in frequent armed battles with the Serb forces, both in 1998 and the first
6 three months of 1999 in the Suva Reka municipality?
7 A. No. Not in Peqan. There were no armed battles in Peqan. They
8 bombed the village. They entered it with the forces, and we had to leave,
9 to flee to other villages. In Semetisht there were armed clashes, but we
10 were in Nishor for five, six days or so.
11 Q. Okay. Well, we'll get to your departure from your home village a
12 little bit later. I'd like to finish up with some other questions first,
13 dealing again with the period of 1998 and the first three months of 1999.
14 And for that period, ma'am, is it correct or did you have knowledge of the
15 KLA engaging in any acts of kidnapping of civilians, both ethnic Albanian
16 and ethnic Serb, in the Suva Reka region or municipality?
17 A. No, I've never heard of it.
18 Q. Okay. Now, you stated your husband would return to spend time
19 with his family with the evenings. When your husband would return to be
20 with his family, was he still armed? Did he still have his weapons with
22 A. Yes, he had a weapon with him.
23 Q. Okay. And during the time-period that he spent with his family,
24 was your husband still wearing his uniform or was he clothed in civilian
1 A. He would not stay in the house for a long time. He would just eat
2 something and go. But he was dressed in uniform.
3 Q. Okay. And did you have knowledge of or -- either again personally
4 or through your husband, did you have knowledge of either your husband or
5 other KLA fighters, who in order to stay alive and fool the Serb forces
6 would change their uniforms into civilian gear, so as not to be recognised
7 as fighters. Did you know anything about that?
8 A. No, I've never heard of it or seen it myself.
9 Q. Okay. Now if we can focus to the period of time in March of 1999,
10 and I believe in your statement you have identified the fact that your
11 husband came to take you from your home village of Pecane to Nishor. Is
12 that accurate?
13 A. Yes, that's accurate. My husband was in Peqan when the bombing
14 started. Then he took me to Nishor and returned himself to Peqan. And
15 from that moment, I didn't see him.
16 Q. Well, let me -- let me ask you a little bit more about when he
17 came to Pecane to take you to Nishor. Is it true that during that same
18 time-period he also ordered or took other people from the village, that is
19 other villagers and told them to flee to Nishor and to other areas?
20 A. No. I was alone throughout the night in the village. The other
21 villagers had already left with tractors, so when he came I had no way how
22 to go to Nishor myself and he took me there and then went back to Peqan
24 Q. Well, let's ask -- let's focus on these other villagers that you
25 said had left previously. Isn't it true that they left based upon the
1 directions or orders of the UCK/KLA that were in the village?
2 A. We didn't wait for a KLA order, because when the bombing started
3 there was no other way out for us. We had to go to a village where there
4 was no bombing going on. There was no need for the KLA to go to every
5 door and tell them to leave. Every head of the family prepared his own
6 family on the tractors and left.
7 Q. Did the KLA in fact tell people to leave your village at any point
8 in time prior to that day, as part of their battle strategy or tactics?
9 A. No, no. As I said, up to the last moment I was alone in the
10 house. I had nobody to go with. I remained in the house, cared, and
11 waited for my husband to come and fetch me. The other villagers had left
12 because of the bombing.
13 Q. Okay. And now if I can ask you about the time-period leading up
14 to when you left Pecane. At any point in time prior to then, did the KLA
15 forces in your village fire upon the Serb forces that were outside of the
17 A. No. Because had they fired once, they would have encircled us
18 immediately and they would have done whatever they liked with us.
19 Q. Now, ma'am, we have talked about your husband on several occasions
20 here today but we have not mentioned his true role within the KLA.
21 Ms. Fondaj, isn't it correct that in March of 1999 your husband was a
22 commanding officer of an entire company of fighters within the
23 2nd Battalion of the 123rd Brigade of the UCK/KLA?
24 A. I don't know. I didn't ask him what his function was. I know
25 that he was a KLA member. I didn't ask; he didn't tell me anything about
1 his role in the KLA. What I know is that he was a KLA member.
2 Q. Well, did you know that he was stationed and responsible for the
3 KLA forces in your village and in the surrounding villages?
4 A. No, I didn't know this. I never asked, as I said, and he never
5 told me.
6 Q. Did you find out at some point in time, perhaps when you came back
7 to Kosovo-Metohija, that your husband had become an even higher-ranking
8 officer at the brigade level of the UCK/KLA in the Suva Reka municipality?
9 A. No. No, I don't know things that you're mentioning. As I said, I
10 never asked him about his role in the KLA or what he did, what was his
11 function in the KLA. What I know is that he was a KLA member.
12 Q. Okay. Did you have occasion to see other KLA members coming to
13 him for orders?
14 A. No, I didn't. As I said, my husband would come in the house to
15 check on us, to have something to eat, then he would return to that place
16 where they were stationed. I was not interested in his things. I had my
17 own housework to do and children to look after. But in the house, I've
18 never seen this happen.
19 Q. Okay.
20 MR. IVETIC: Your Honours, would it be a good time for a pause?
21 I'm about a little more than halfway through with my cross at this point
22 in time.
23 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
24 Well, Ms. Fondaj, we will break now for half an hour. Would you
25 just leave the courtroom, please, and we'll see you again at 11.00.
1 [The witness stands down]
2 JUDGE BONOMY: The court will now adjourn until 11.00.
3 --- Recess taken at 10.30 a.m.
4 --- On resuming at 11.02 a.m.
5 [The witness entered court]
6 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Ivetic, please continue.
7 MR. IVETIC: Thank you, Your Honour.
8 Q. Now, Mrs. Fondaj, before the break you testified that every
9 household in your village had someone in the UCK/KLA. Now, I want to ask
10 you: How many households were there total in your village as of March of
12 A. Two or 300 houses. I'm not sure.
13 Q. Okay. And did you know or have any knowledge that your husband's
14 KLA battalion had approximately 500 armed members? Does that figure sound
16 A. No, I don't know.
17 Q. Okay. Now, Mrs. Fondaj, I put it to you that at some point in
18 time prior to your departure from the village of Pecane that someone from
19 the KLA told the villagers to leave the village as part of the KLA's
20 battle plan in the region. Is this correct?
21 A. No, that's not correct.
22 Q. Okay. Now, Mrs. Fondaj, your husband, Ylmet Fondaj, he gave a
23 sworn statement to the Office of the Prosecutor of this Tribunal, just as
24 you have, relative to his knowledge of what occurred in your home village
25 and in the Suva Reka municipality. Isn't that right?
1 A. Yes, that's correct.
2 MR. IVETIC: At this time, Your Honour, I would ask the court
3 personnel to put up Exhibit 6D76 on the e-court, the excerpt of the
4 English statement of Ylmet Fondaj. We do not have a copy in Albanian, as
5 the Office of the Prosecutor has not, to my knowledge, disclosed this
6 particular statement to us in the Albanian language, but I will limit my
7 examination of the witness from this document just to the two items that
8 are excerpted and hopefully my reading of these statements will be
9 translated to the witness so that she can comment upon the sworn testimony
10 of her husband.
11 If we could turn to the second page on e-court, and the excerpted
12 material there.
13 Q. Now, first of all, ma'am, this statement, dated the 28th of
14 August, 2001, is for an Ylmet, Y-l-m-e-t, Fondaj, father's first name
15 Selim and date of birth of March 28th, 1957 in Pecane, Suva Reka
16 municipality. Is that biographical information that of your husband,
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Now, as I've stated, I do not have a copy of the statement in
20 Albanian, so I'm going to read for you the excerpted material in that
21 statement and ask if it refreshes your recollection.
22 Now, first of all, on the first page, it says: "I was married
23 1978 and we got three children, two sons and one daughter. After my
24 release from prison, I worked with my brother as a house builder in order
25 to survive. In order to feel safe for my family and myself, I joined the
1 KLA in February 1998 and served with the forces to the end of the war. I
2 was commander for a company in the Brigade 123 in the beginning. Later on
3 I advanced as an officer called S2 in the brigade level."
4 Now, ma'am, does this refresh your recollection as to the position
5 that your husband held within the KLA?
6 A. I did not ask my husband what position he had in the KLA. I saw
7 he had a KLA uniform, but as I said I did not ask him what his role was.
8 THE INTERPRETER: Could the witness please be asked to sit closer
9 to the microphone for the interpreter's benefit.
10 MR. IVETIC:
11 Q. Okay, ma'am. And again if you could try to make sure to speak
12 into the microphones so that the interpreters can record accurately
13 everything you say.
14 MR. IVETIC: Now I would ask for the next page of the exhibit in
15 e-court to be put up on the monitor.
16 Q. And while that's happening, ma'am, I would like to ask you: As
17 far as the tactics and activities of the KLA, based upon what you have
18 told us, your husband would know better than you what those tactics and
19 actions undertaken were, would he not?
20 A. Of course he should know, he should have known better than me.
21 Q. Okay.
22 MR. IVETIC: Now I would like --
23 Q. I'm going to again read the portion that is excerpted from your
24 husband's statement in English so that you can receive the translation,
25 and then I'll have a question or two relating to that.
1 Now, in -- at page 4 of his statement, which is the second page of
2 the e-court exhibit and the paragraph that is excerpted there, it
3 states: "I will tell that during the second offensive we, the KLA,
4 changed tactic. We told the villagers to flee and we remained in our
5 positions in the villages, in basements and trenches, and met the Serb
6 ground forces when they entered the village. We met them with resistance.
7 Many time the Serb forces had to withdraw. I will mention that the tactic
8 was successful in the village of Pecane."
9 Now, Mrs. Fondaj, does this refresh your recollection as to
10 whether or not your departure from Pecane in March of 1999 and that of
11 your fellow villagers was the direct result of a tactical order or
12 instruction given by your husband as the KLA commander assigned to the
13 area so that he and his fighters could do battle with the Serbs?
14 A. Nobody gave me an order. As I told you, the villagers left in the
15 evening because of the shelling by the forces. So they left and I was
16 alone with my children. And when my husband saw that, all the villagers
17 had left, he came and took me to the rest of the villagers. As I said, I
18 did not receive any order myself. I don't know about the others.
19 Q. Well, ma'am, your husband's statement here seems to imply that
20 this was a tactic utilised by the KLA to tell people to leave and that
21 this tactic was successful in the village of Pecane. Are you trying to
22 tell us that the incidents that his statement talks about here do not
23 relate to your departure from Pecane in March of 1999?
24 A. I'm telling the truth here. I don't know about any orders to
25 leave the village. I don't know what they discussed amongst themselves.
1 Q. Okay. Well, let's -- just to be sure that we're talking about the
2 same incident, I will continue with your husband's sworn words that are at
3 the end of this page and going on to the next. It's the last half a
4 sentence on this page and then the next page in e-court, for the usher's
6 And I quote: "After the shelling, the ground forces tried to
7 enter the village, but we defended the village during two days. After two
8 days the Serbs reinforced with tanks and heavy weapons and we had to move
9 to another positions in the village of Semetisht. In that village we
10 managed to resist for eight days. It happened on 25th March 1999 until
11 6th April 1999."
12 And now, ma'am, does this appear to be the precise time-period and
13 the precise events that you have testified here today when you and the
14 remaining villagers from Pecane left that village?
15 A. When do you mean?
16 Q. March and April of 1999, the end of March and the beginning of
17 April 1999.
18 A. On the 21st of March, I left the village.
19 Q. Okay. Now, can you recognise your husband's signature?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And if I can direct your attention to the screen in front of you.
22 You should have on the left side a signature and then on the right side
23 two signatures. Do you recognise any of these signatures as being that of
24 your husband?
25 A. Yes, one of them is.
1 Q. Okay. All right, ma'am. Now, you don't know of any reason why
2 your husband would lie about the reason that people left his home village
3 of Pecane, do you?
4 A. No. He's not lying. But from the 21st I was in Nishor. What the
5 army did, how they fought, and everything else, how could I know about
6 those things? We were somewhere else. I don't know what they were doing.
7 Q. Is it possible that your husband and the other members of the KLA
8 gave orders to the other villagers in Pecane, the other 200 to 300
9 households without your knowledge of that?
10 A. It is possible, but nobody gave me an order. It was my husband
11 who came and took me at home. The others left, as I told you, but I don't
12 know whether it was because of an order or not.
13 Q. Okay. Now, if we can focus on the time-period after you left your
14 village and when you were in Nishor. According to your statement - and
15 now we have corroborative information from your husband's statement - it
16 would appear that the KLA engaged in battle with the Serbian forces for a
17 period of eight days. Now, what I want to know is, first of all: How
18 constant was the fighting during that eight-day time-period?
19 A. I told you that I was not in Semetisht. I was in another village
20 during that time. In Nishor we could hear the shelling, and we were
21 shelled in Nishor time after time, but I don't know what was happening
23 Q. I believe my question talked about the time-period when you were
24 in Nishor. During that eight-day time-period, how constant or frequent
25 was the fighting between the KLA and the Serbian forces, if you know?
1 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, before you can get an answer to that
2 question, Mr. Ivetic, you'll have to have a foundation for her knowledge
3 of the fighting by the KLA.
4 MR. IVETIC: I think she's in fact answered that, but I can ask
6 Q. Ma'am, do you have --
7 JUDGE BONOMY: Where is the answer to that?
8 MR. IVETIC: She mentioned that she was -- about -- just one
10 I believe in the statement, Your Honour, that's been admitted into
11 evidence --
12 JUDGE BONOMY: Yeah.
13 MR. IVETIC: It says: "I stayed in Nishor for one week, during
14 which time there was continual shelling going on. Because of the
15 resistance of the KLA from the village of Semetisht where they were
16 deployed, the Serb army was not able to enter Nishor."
17 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you very much. That does provide a
19 MR. IVETIC:
20 Q. Now, ma'am, I would again ask you the question that I asked.
21 During the time-period you were in Nishor, how constant or frequent was
22 the fighting between the KLA and the Serbian forces, to the best of your
23 knowledge? And I appreciate that you were not necessarily at the front
24 lines for that entire eight-day period.
25 A. I stayed in Nishor for seven days and then I went to Bellanice
1 because that was continuous. I don't know when they withdrew, but I know
2 this, that there was shelling every day in Nishor. We stayed in the
3 basements because there were -- there was nowhere else to go. And then we
4 went to Bellanice after that.
5 Q. Now, just so that there's no confusion, ma'am, is it your
6 testimony that the battles between the KLA and the Serbian forces occurred
7 constantly on a daily basis for the entire week that you were in Nishor?
8 A. There was shelling every day in Nishor.
9 Q. And what about the activities of your -- pardon me, of the KLA
10 fighters, was that every day as well?
11 A. I don't know that. I did not see the KLA. I don't know whether
12 the fight -- they were fighting the KLA or just shelling the village where
13 we were. I couldn't tell you. I was not there.
14 Q. Okay. In any event, the Serbian force --
15 JUDGE BONOMY: Just a second.
16 Mrs. Fondaj, in your statement you say the following
17 words: "Because of the resistance of the KLA from the village of
18 Semetisht where they were deployed, the Serb army was not able to enter
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
21 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, now you've told us that you did not see the
22 KLA, you don't know whether they were fighting. What is the position?
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, the army was there. Whether
24 they were fighting regularly, every day, or how they were fighting, I
25 don't know. I can tell you about the shelling in Nishor, but I know this,
1 that the KLA was for seven days in Semetisht. Seven or eight days we were
2 in Nishor, there was shelling.
3 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
4 Mr. Ivetic.
5 MR. IVETIC: Thank you, Your Honour.
6 Q. Now, I gather from your testimony here today it sounds like there
7 was additional fighting for another three days while you -- when you left
8 Nishor and were in Belanica. Is this correct?
9 A. We went to Bellanice. I don't know whether there was any
10 fighting. I was in Bellanice from the 28th to the 1st.
11 Q. Okay. And now when you went to Belanica, during the time-period
12 that you were in Belanica, did you see any KLA members either in Belanica
13 or passing through Belanica during that time-period?
14 A. No, I did not see any. I was inside the house. I didn't see
16 Q. Okay. So you did not leave the house. Now, let me focus on the
17 date I believe you stated that the Serb forces entered the village, April
18 the 1st. And I want to ask you to be as precise as possible. In your
19 statement you state that they came into the village between 1300 and 1400
20 hours. Can you confirm that or be more precise or just let us know
21 whether that time is accurate?
22 A. That time is accurate.
23 Q. Okay. And you talk about -- you talk today about the night you
24 spent with others in Belanica waiting to leave that village after the Serb
25 forces came. And I want to ask you about something else that you mention
1 in your statement. In your statement you mention that during that evening
2 you could see flames of the NATO bombs when they hit targets in the
3 surrounding area. Now, I want to ask you first of all: Did you see that
4 with your own eyes, the flames?
5 A. Yes, I did see them with my own eyes, the flames.
6 Q. And --
7 A. We could see the burst of flame, yes.
8 Q. And approximately how many NATO attacks are we talking about that
9 you witnessed? Was it a single event? Was it multiple attacks that
11 A. Only one. It was about 3.00 in the morning, 2.00 or 3.00 in the
12 morning. There was this big fire. The flames lit the sky, and that was
14 Q. And could you tell approximately how close to your position was
15 the target that had been struck by these NATO attacks?
16 A. I don't know how close it was. There was -- the sky was lit by
17 the flames, but I couldn't tell you where exactly that was.
18 Q. Okay. Did that NATO strike cause fear amongst the persons in
20 A. No, it did not cause any fear.
21 Q. Okay. Let me ask you then about what I believe you testified to
22 happening that next morning. You stated that some individuals had come up
23 to your tractor and first asked for money from the inhabitants of the
24 tractors, and in your -- in your statement you describe these individuals
25 as Serb police officers. But today you described a variety of different
1 uniforms. And I'd like to ask you specifically about the 20 persons that
2 came up to your tractor, what type of uniform did they have on? Could you
3 describe that uniform for me.
4 A. Those who came to our tractor had masks on. Only one of them did
5 not wear a mask. The others were masked, painted, had bandannas, knives,
6 brandishing knives around the tractor.
7 Q. Did you see any type of insignia on the uniforms?
8 A. No, I didn't see --
9 Q. Did you see any type of badges on the uniforms?
10 A. No, no, I didn't. Well, I wasn't in fact paying too much
11 attention to these insignia, but I know that they were masked.
12 Q. Okay. Now, if you weren't paying too much attention to these
13 individuals, how is it then that you are -- able to identify them as being
14 Serb police officers?
15 A. I did not say they were officers. They were wearing all kinds of
16 uniforms. I don't know who of them was the officer. I never joined the
17 army or was in the army, so I don't know these things. But there were
18 policemen because they had the letters "police" which I could see. But
19 the other insignia that you're asking, the other signs, I don't know.
20 Q. Did these men that came up to your tractor to ask for money, did
21 they have the insignia that you have described with the letters "police"?
22 A. There were policemen there, but those who came to my tractor were
23 masked. There were policemen everywhere, but the ones who came to my
24 tractor were masked. Just one of them did not wear a mask, and they asked
25 for money. They went from tractor to tractor, as I explained to you.
1 Q. Okay. And you I believe stated that some persons that came up
2 were in fact naked. Is that accurate or was that something that came
3 through the translation wrong?
4 A. They were naked from the waist up and were painted, had bandannas
5 and knives.
6 Q. What was the weather like that day? Wasn't it fairly cold?
7 A. It was April. I don't know whether they felt cold or not.
8 Q. Okay. Now, let me just check the transcript for a second.
9 I think I have to ask one more question before we leave Belanica.
10 I wanted to ask you to -- to clear up your answer when I asked you whether
11 the persons who came up to the tractor, whether they had the
12 letters "police" written on their uniform. Could you just answer that,
13 did they or did they not? You've already mentioned that they had masks,
14 so we know all that. I'm asking about the uniforms. Did you see this
15 insignia that you have described with the letters "police" on the uniforms
16 of the individuals you've described?
17 A. I didn't see -- I couldn't see properly. I was scared. I saw
18 that they were wearing masks.
19 Q. Okay. That's fair enough. Now I think I'd like to move on and
20 just ask you a few questions relating to when you arrived at the border.
21 Now, when you came to the border you said that the border police
22 were very nice to you and assured you -- and when assured that you had all
23 your identity documents in your possession they let you across the border.
24 What kind of uniform did these individuals wear?
25 A. They were policemen.
1 Q. Okay. And -- I don't know if my mic's working.
2 And with respect to these individuals, did they have the insignia
3 on their uniforms that spelled "police"?
4 A. Yes, on their backs, yes, big letters.
5 Q. Okay. And while you were present at the border, you did not
6 personally see anyone's identification cards being confiscated, did you?
7 A. No. They did not take any from our tractor. It was 2.00 in the
8 morning, it was night, the driver went up to them and told: We are okay,
9 so they said: You can go.
10 Q. Okay. And now in your statement I believe you just mentioned that
11 there was an incident that you heard about some two hours later regarding
12 other persons at the border post. And I want to -- they had a problem.
13 And I want to confirm with you that you were still not at the border when
14 this happened, were you, that is to say you did not eye-witness that
16 A. We saw these things. After we crossed the border to Albania, we
17 were given food and helped, and the next tractor that came after us, they
18 were beaten up. Even the elderly were beaten up. That's where I saw
19 them. Because we were waiting at the border inside the Albanian
20 territory. We were being helped there, assisted before we went on.
21 Q. And it was still dark outside at that point in time?
22 A. Yes, it was about 3.00 in the morning. At 2.00, we were at the
23 border and then for one hour we stayed there.
24 Q. Okay.
25 MR. IVETIC: One moment, Your Honour, if I could just consult my
1 notes, I think I'm close to concluding my part of this cross-examination.
2 [Defence counsel confer]
3 MR. IVETIC: Your Honour, I am completed.
4 Q. Thank you, ma'am.
5 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
6 Ms. Zed.
7 MS. ZED: Good morning, Your Honour.
8 Cross-examination by Ms. Zed:
9 Q. Good morning, Ms. Fondaj. My name is Nadia Zed, and along with
10 Mr. Ackerman and Mr. Aleksic I'm representing General Pavkovic, and I just
11 have a few very, very brief questions for you this morning.
12 Just to start off with, you've already talked about this eight
13 days of fighting between the Serb forces and the KLA, and in your
14 statement you indicate that after the eight days of fighting the KLA had
15 to withdraw to a mountain above Belanica. And I take it that that
16 mountain is very -- is very near the village. Is that right?
17 A. I don't know where they went. We were in Bellanice. We didn't
18 have KLA in Bellanice. They fought, but where they fought I don't know.
19 I was in Nishor for seven days. There was shelling going on every day.
20 The KLA was in Semetisht.
21 As for this mountain above Bellanice, I don't know, because I've
22 never been to that part, and I don't know the villages in that part in the
23 mountains there.
24 JUDGE BONOMY: Ms. Fondaj, in your statement it says: "After
25 eight days of fighting, the KLA had to withdraw to a mountain above
2 Did you say that to the Prosecution?
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, yes, I did, in my statement.
4 But I don't know exactly in which mountain. It was a mountain, but I
5 don't know exactly where they went. And we didn't see them. We just
6 heard that the KLA had -- withdrew because all these forces had come to
7 Bellanice. There was no longer KLA there.
8 JUDGE BONOMY: Ms. Zed.
9 MS. ZED: Thank you.
10 Q. You also indicated in your statement that you were aware that the
11 Serb forces would come to Belanica. Why did you say that?
12 A. Well, we heard on the radio that the villages around Prizren,
13 Krushevo, Krusha e Madhe, and so forth were already expelled and people
14 made to go to Albania, and we were anticipating this. We knew that this
15 was going to happen to us as well. That's why I said so.
16 Q. Okay. Did you also think that the Serb forces, if they were
17 looking for the KLA and they were in the area of Belanica, in the
18 mountain, that perhaps that would draw the Serb forces to Belanica?
19 A. No. As they expelled the others before us, the Serb forces
20 expelled us. It was our turn. There was no KLA there. We were gathered
21 there. In order for us not to go to the mountains, we gathered in those
22 large numbers in Bellanice. And then they came and they told us to go to
24 Q. Okay. Ms. Fondaj, in your statement you indicated that on
25 April 2nd, when you were preparing to leave, you were in a bad mood and at
1 that moment you blamed your husband for being in this situation. Why did
2 you do that?
3 A. I blamed my husband at the moment when they pointed their
4 automatic rifle at me. And since he used to be a policeman, I thought
5 that they know him and that's why they could massacre my children. And
6 another reason why I blamed him was because he wasn't around with me and
7 with my children during those difficult times.
8 Q. Just very briefly, Ms. Fondaj, did you ever return to Kosovo?
9 A. Yes, in July. I don't know the date exactly, but it was July.
10 Q. Okay. And just to conclude, in the last paragraph of your
11 statement it says: "We fled Kosovo because of Serb threats and not
12 because of NATO bombing."
13 Mr. Ekdahl, the man who took your statement back in June of 2001,
14 put that in your statement and told you that it was important, didn't he?
15 A. No, he didn't say that it was important to say that. I said that
16 myself, that we left because of the Serb forces and not because of NATO.
17 I said it myself.
18 Q. Okay. Thank you. Those are all my questions.
19 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
20 Ms. Kravetz.
21 MS. KRAVETZ: I just have a couple of questions, Your Honour.
22 Re-examination by Ms. Kravetz:
23 Q. Mrs. Fondaj, in your evidence you stated while you were in Nishor,
24 that week the village was being shelled. Was there any outgoing fire from
25 Nishor towards Serb positions?
1 A. No, not from the village of Nishor towards the Serb positions. It
2 was only the population in Nishor, from my village and the surrounding
3 villages, I didn't see any KLA in Nishor. But they said that they had
4 seen KLA in Semetisht.
5 Q. Mrs. Fondaj, you say that the KLA was holding up resistance in
6 Semetisht. How far is the village of Semetisht from Nishor, just
8 A. I don't know. Maybe 5 or 6 kilometres.
9 Q. Okay.
10 MS. KRAVETZ: Those are all my questions, Your Honour.
11 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
12 Ms. Fondaj, that completes your evidence. Thank you for coming to
13 the Tribunal to give it. You are now free to leave.
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
15 [The witness withdrew]
16 JUDGE BONOMY: Now, Ms. Kravetz, who is the next witness? Sorry,
17 Mr. Marcussen.
18 MR. MARCUSSEN: Your Honour, the next witness will be Shyrete
19 Berisha, and we will do a little re-shuffle here on the Prosecution side.
20 MS. KRAVETZ: Your Honour, before the next witness is brought in,
21 I would like to object to the admission of Mr. Fondaj's statement. I
22 believe that if the Defence wants to introduce this statement as an
23 exhibit, they should call the witness who gave the statement for this
25 MR. IVETIC: If I can respond. First of all, I think the
1 objection is untimely. I believe they're talking about Mr. Fondaj's
2 statement -- oh, it's been corrected.
3 We have limited the exhibit that we were introducing into evidence
4 based upon the parts that we cross-examined the witness upon, so I believe
5 it is proper, and I believe that the information elicited is of great
6 benefit to these proceedings.
7 JUDGE BONOMY: Yes, as has been the case all along, this statement
8 insofar as that -- it has been the subject of the evidence it will form
9 part of the record. It's been used so far only to put in context
10 questions that were asked of the witness in cross-examination, and the
11 parts of the statement referred to are a necessary element of our
12 consideration of the witness's response in due course. So subject to
13 other submissions that may well be made at a later stage about the extent
14 to which we can take account of it, it is for the moment and will continue
15 to be part of the record in the case to the extent it's been referred to.
16 MS. KRAVETZ: Thank you, Your Honour.
17 [Trial Chamber confers]
18 JUDGE BONOMY: Now, Mr. Marcussen, the paragraphs of the
19 indictment, please?
20 MR. MARCUSSEN: Sorry, Your Honour, I was running to get my
21 papers. The paragraphs of the indictment are paragraphs 72(d), 75(d),
22 Schedule D, and paragraph 77. I think we put 77(d) on our witness
23 notification, it's rather 77(a) and (b), or paragraph 77 in general.
24 As another preliminary thing while we wait for the witness, I
25 would like to mention to the Court that this witness is one of those
1 witnesses who has given a statement to the OSCE. There has been an issue
2 in the context of Your Honour's decision on Under Orders and whether or
3 not it was possible to assess the reliability of the underlying evidence
4 for the report. I mention this because this is one of those witnesses
5 where it is possible to -- to compare the underlying information report
6 made by OSCE with the evidence of the witness. We're not intending to
7 tender the -- the information report at this stage, but I would like to
8 draw Your Honours' attention to the exhibit number nonetheless, and the
9 exhibit is P2289.
10 Thank you.
11 JUDGE BONOMY: So you don't actually intend to explore the
12 consistency between the two?
13 MR. MARCUSSEN: Not at this stage. I think today we will get the
14 evidence from the witness and -- I'm saying it in case --
15 JUDGE BONOMY: Just bring the witness in, please.
16 MR. MARCUSSEN: I'm simply mentioning it in case Your Honours had
17 anything that Your Honours wanted to explore in this regard. I don't know
18 to what extent you had a chance to look at this kind of material. So at
19 this stage, I'm alerting Your Honours to it. We might be making
20 submissions on this later.
21 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
22 [The witness entered court]
23 JUDGE BONOMY: Good morning, Ms. Berisha.
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good afternoon.
25 JUDGE BONOMY: Would you please make the solemn declaration to
1 tell the truth by reading aloud the document which is now before you.
2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
3 I solemnly declare that I will speak the truth, the whole truth,
4 and nothing but the truth.
5 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you. Please be seated.
6 Mr. Marcussen.
7 WITNESS: SHYRETE BERISHA
8 [The witness answered through interpreter]
9 Examination by Mr. Marcussen:
10 Q. Good morning, Madam Berisha.
11 A. Good afternoon.
12 Q. Madam Berisha, what ethnic group do you belong to?
13 A. I'm Albanian.
14 Q. Do you speak Serbian?
15 A. Yes, I do.
16 Q. Do you speak any other languages?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Okay.
19 MR. MARCUSSEN: Could we --
20 Q. You do -- you do speak Albanian, do you?
21 A. Yes, of course. I speak my own language, Albanian.
22 MR. MARCUSSEN: I would like if we could see Exhibit P117, page 8.
23 And I believe there are two images on that exhibit, and I'd like to see
24 the top one. Could we zoom in on the top -- on the top one? Thank you.
25 Q. Madam Berisha, do you recognise this house?
1 A. Yes. This is the house where I used to live with my husband and
2 with my husband's nephew Faton.
3 Q. In what part of the house did you live?
4 A. With my husband and my four children, I lived on the left side of
5 the house, while my husband's nephew Faton and his wife and two children,
6 his mother and his sister lived on the right-hand side of the house.
7 Q. Madam Berisha, there will be a lot of names mentioned during your
8 testimony today, so before we continue with the events you are here to
9 talk about, I'd like to ask you if during your meetings with the
10 Prosecution before you testified today, whether you were shown a
11 family-tree for parts of the Berisha family -- sorry, for different
12 Berisha families, I should say?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And on that family-tree, did you verify it to see whether it was
15 correct, according to your knowledge?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And did you indicate that there were some of the people on the
18 family-tree whose name you knew and there were other people who you did
19 not know the name of?
20 A. Yes, that's correct.
21 Q. And did you together with one of the OTP investigators mark on a
22 copy of the family-tree the names -- the persons whose name you knew?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Were you also asked to indicate who of the people on the
25 family-tree were in -- were with you in the coffee shop on the day we're
1 going to discuss later?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And was that also marked on -- on a copy of the family-tree by the
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And did you also indicate on the family-tree which family members
7 you knew had been killed in Suva Reka at --
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Madam Berisha, were you then later shown a new copy of the
10 family-tree which incorporated the information you had given to the
11 Prosecution's investigator?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And did you sign and date that copy?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Madam Berisha, I'd like to show you a copy of the family-tree.
16 MR. MARCUSSEN: I will need the assistance of the usher for that.
17 Your Honours, the family-tree is in e-court and we will be asking
18 that it's tendered as an exhibit. Because of its size, I will not be
19 attempting to show it on the monitor in court. The exhibit number will
20 be P2346.
21 Q. Madam Berisha, is this a copy of the document that you signed?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And your signature is in the bottom right-hand corner. Is that
25 A. Yes.
1 MR. MARCUSSEN: Your Honours, at this stage I would like to tender
2 Exhibit P2346.
3 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
4 MR. MARCUSSEN: The Defence should have been given a copy of the
5 exhibit and Your Honours should have received a copy. I believe a look
6 around the room just to see that. That seems to be the case. Thank you.
7 Q. Madam Berisha --
8 MR. MARCUSSEN: If we could show -- could we show the
9 Exhibit P117, page 8, the top -- the one we just had before? Thank you.
10 Q. So, Madam Berisha, you say you lived with your husband and four
11 children on the left-hand side of the house that is shown on the monitor
12 now. Could you tell us the name of your --
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Would you tell us the name of your husband and children, please.
15 A. My husband's name was Nexhat Berisha. The oldest daughter, her
16 name was Majlinda, she was 16. Herolinda, my second daughter, she was 13.
17 Altin, he was 11 years old. And little Redon, he was only 18 months old.
18 Q. And on the right-hand side of the house on this picture, who lived
20 A. My sister-in-law, she was 48 years old, her name was Fatime
21 Berisha. My husband's nephew, Faton Berisha, 28 years old. His wife,
22 Faton's wife, Sebahate was her name, she was 25 years old. Faton's
23 sister, Sherine, 17 years old. And Faton's two sons, Ismet, who was 3
24 years old, and Eron who was only 10 months old.
25 Q. And your mother-in-law and Faton and Sebahate's family, they are
1 seen on the family-tree, I think, on the top --
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. -- quarter on the left side of the family-tree. There's also the
4 mention of Arben Berisha. Did he live in the house?
5 A. He was at that time in Switzerland. He wasn't in the house. He's
6 brother -- Faton's brother.
7 Q. And Ismet at the time that we're going to talk about, was he in
8 the house?
9 A. Ismet is Fatime's husband. He died ten years before the war
10 started, while the little Ismet, he is -- he was Faton's son. He was
11 carrying the name of Faton's father. So the senior one, Ismet, he was
12 already dead. He had passed away ten years earlier.
13 JUDGE BONOMY: Now, the -- just to be clear about the legend for
14 this, what's the significance of the square and the round boxes?
15 MR. MARCUSSEN: Square are male and round boxes are female.
16 JUDGE BONOMY: Oh. And how do we know which may be deceased prior
17 to the relevant date, such as Ismet that we've just heard of?
18 MR. MARCUSSEN: The persons that are indicated in -- in blue and
19 red were all involved in the incident that we are going to talk about
20 later today. All those with a colour are dead with the exception of the
21 witness and two other persons indicated on the family-tree, and I will
22 make sure that the record is clear in that regard.
23 JUDGE BONOMY: But what's the significance of the names that are
24 written in black?
25 MR. MARCUSSEN: They are -- they are the names of family members
1 that the witness knows but they were not present at the coffee shop and
2 have not been -- or were not killed earlier that same day.
3 The reason why we have done it this way is that there are other
4 parts of the family, as can be seen, all the ones that are not in a bolded
5 box, and those are parts of the family that the witness has indicated that
6 she generally knows but she's not able to place them with their name in
7 the family-tree.
8 JUDGE BONOMY: But can we take it that a number of the names in
9 black may well have been deceased before the event we're talking about?
10 MR. MARCUSSEN: Some might have died before and there might also
11 be some of those in black who died on that day but who the witness is not
12 able to identify.
13 JUDGE BONOMY: All right. Thank you.
14 MR. MARCUSSEN: Could we scroll down, please, to the lower part of
15 the second photograph on this exhibit, please?
16 Q. Madam Berisha, are you able to recognise what this picture is?
17 A. This is the back part of the house, it's the back entrance on the
18 other side.
19 Q. Thank you. Did -- when the OSCE arrived in Suva Reka, do you know
20 where they had their office at the time they came to Suva Reka?
21 A. When they came to Suhareke, their offices were at Hotel Boss and
22 in Shiroka of Suhareke. The owner of that was Miskovic.
23 Q. Do you know the first name of Miskovic?
24 A. I don't know what his first name is. I just know that he was
25 always called Miskovic.
1 Q. Did the OSCE later move to your house?
2 A. Yes. At the end of 1998, OSCE moved to our house, but I'm not
3 sure of the exact date when they moved in.
4 MR. MARCUSSEN: And I'd like to ask that we scroll back up to the
5 top photo -- part of the exhibit.
6 Q. How did OSCE use the house that we see on the picture? What were
7 they -- what were they using the left-hand side or your part of the house
9 A. The OSCE used our house as their offices; while the other part,
10 Faton's part, they lived there. They used it as sleeping quarters.
11 Q. Do you know whether there were OSCE staff sleeping in houses --
12 other houses in Suva Reka?
13 A. Yes, there were people from the OSCE living -- sleeping in other
14 houses. The only house that they used as an office was our house.
15 Q. Where did you stay when the OSCE moved into your house?
16 A. When OSCE moved in my house, I stayed at my parents, which was in
17 the Mushtisht village, which is about 9 kilometres away from Suhareke.
18 Q. And where did Faton's family go?
19 A. Faton's family stayed with his grandfathers, which -- the house of
20 whom was a little bit further away at the entrance of Suhareke.
21 Q. While OSCE was using your house, did you come to the house from
22 time to time?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. [Previous translation continues] ...
25 A. Two or three times a week. We had to clean the house.
1 Q. So --
2 A. While my husband was there every day.
3 Q. So did you know the staff working there? I'm thinking in
4 particular of some of the people who provided security for the OSCE
6 A. Yes, I knew many of them. I can't remember the names now.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. I know only that the head was called Rufus. I knew some of the
9 other's names as well, but ...
10 Q. Thank you. That's fine. When did the OSCE leave?
11 A. The OSCE left the house in March, but I am not sure about the
12 exact date. Whether it was before the 20th of March or on the 20th of
13 March, I forget, but it was in March.
14 Q. Thank you. And did you then move back to the house?
15 A. Yes, after they left I went back home -- not my own home. I went
16 to Fatime's house, my sister-in-law's house, which was the other part of
17 the house. That's where we stayed.
18 Q. Had -- had Fatime and Faton's family already moved back at that
19 point in time?
20 A. Yes, they had returned earlier because the people who were
21 sleeping there had left earlier and went and stayed somewhere else. So
22 Fatime and Faton returned to their home earlier.
23 Q. When the OSCE left, did they leave any equipment in your house?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And when you came back, were there also still some of the OSCE
1 security people there?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Did you speak to any of them?
4 A. Yes. Once I approached them, I went to the house because I knew
5 that they had left and wanted to clean the house. But as I went to the
6 house there was a guard there. He was a Roma. His name was Zeqa from
7 Suhareke, and he told me: Nexhat's wife, if you -- if the police come, if
8 the Serbian police come, don't fear because they've been here already two
10 Q. Did --
11 A. And --
12 Q. Did he say why the police had been coming?
13 A. He said that the Serbian police had come to see whether we were
14 being harassed by the KLA.
15 Q. Did you -- do you think that was the real reason?
16 A. No. This was not the real reason because there was no KLA there.
17 I never saw any KLA there. My opinion is that they had gone there to see
18 whether we had returned to our home.
19 Q. Do you know whether the police visited any of the places where
20 other OSCE staff had been living in Suva Reka?
21 A. Yes. I don't know what days it was. My husband told me that the
22 Serbian police had gone into Murat Suka's house where the OSCE used to use
23 as sleeping quarters. He had heard that the Serbian police had gone in
24 and looted, had taken everything that they had found in there.
25 Q. Thank you. The day that the bombing -- the NATO bombing started,
1 do you remember that day?
2 A. I can't tell you the date now.
3 Q. Did you notice any particular movement of troops that day?
4 A. Yes. There was a lot of movement of the army, the police. The
5 street was full of cars and tanks and policemen and soldiers.
6 Q. Now, the people you describe as soldiers, can you describe what
7 they were wearing?
8 A. As far as I remember there were many buses, and these people were
9 wearing uniforms. They were shouting. There were other buses where
10 people seemed more serious there. They were still in uniforms, but they
11 were more serious, looked more serious. But there were others who were
12 shouting, were firing their guns. They had bandannas on their heads. My
13 son, Altin, who was 11 years old and my -- I remember my son saying to
14 me: Mom, they look like ninjas.
15 Q. Do you remember the colour of the clothes of the people who were
16 screaming and yelling and shooting in the air?
17 A. Yes. All of them had uniforms. They -- some of them had
18 camouflage uniforms --
19 Q. [Previous translation continues] ...
20 A. Green, solid colour. Most of them were green uniforms.
21 Q. You also said that you saw police -- a lot of police move. What
22 kind of uniform were the people you think were the police wear?
23 A. Yes, blue uniforms, camouflage blue uniforms, I would say dark
25 Q. You mention that you saw people in buses that were very agitated
1 and then there were other people that were more calm. The people that
2 were more calm, how did they look, what were they wearing?
3 A. They, too, had uniforms on, and their hats and uniforms were the
5 MR. MARCUSSEN: Could we see Exhibit 189, please.
6 Q. Madam Berisha, do you recognise this place?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. There are some numbers and markings on this exhibit. Is -- are
9 they markings that were made by one of the Prosecution's investigators who
10 spoke to you?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Now, is it correct that number 1 is your house?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Now, where were the buses and the peoples -- people you just
15 described approximately on this map?
16 A. Here on the street.
17 Q. [Previous translation continues]...
18 A. On the road to Pristina. On the road here.
19 Q. Is that the lower road? There seems to be two, one running in
20 front of the house and another one running further down. You're
21 describing the lower one. Is that correct?
22 A. Yes. This road here which takes you to the police station and
23 then to Pristina.
24 Q. Thank you.
25 MR. MARCUSSEN: It is the lower road being indicated just so the
1 record is clear on that.
2 Q. Okay. Madam Berisha, on the next day, the day after the NATO
3 bombing had started, did the police come to your house -- did the police
4 come to your house?
5 A. The policemen came to our house on the 25th of March in the
7 Q. Who opened the door for the police?
8 A. They pushed the door. They knocked at the door very heavily. It
9 was very early in the morning. I'm not sure now whether it was 5.00 a.m.
10 or when, but it was me who opened the door.
11 Q. How many policemen did you see?
12 A. Three.
13 Q. Could you describe for me how they looked. Now, first what kind
14 of a -- were they wearing a uniform?
15 A. I'm not sure whether I remember correctly, but I think they had
16 camouflage uniforms, green uniforms, and one of them was wearing this
17 white band on his arm.
18 Q. You say they were the police. Why do you think they were the
20 A. That's what I thought. They had a uniform.
21 Q. Did they say why they had come?
22 A. When I opened the door, there was this very tall policeman, the
23 other two were shorter. And the tall one pointed his automatic gun at my
24 chest and asked for my husband.
25 Q. Did your husband come?
1 A. Yes. I called my husband. He came downstairs and they took my
2 husband and they went to the left side of the house, our house, where the
3 OSCE had its offices.
4 Q. And when they were in your part of the house, do you know where
5 they went?
6 A. I did not see them because I stayed inside. They did not allow me
7 to go outside. They told me to stay inside. They only took my husband
8 there, and my husband told me what had happened. They took my husband.
9 They asked him about the OSCE. When the policeman found the photographs
10 of the burned villages that the OSCE had taken, they had beaten my husband
11 with chairs, with the butts of their guns, they had kicked him.
12 Q. Did they -- did the policemen -- did your husband tell you whether
13 the policemen entered any of the rooms that had been used by OSCE?
14 A. When the policemen had been searching in their cupboards and
15 cabinets, there were two rooms that were locked and they had broken into
16 those rooms and had threatened my husband, telling him: Where are your
17 Americans? You asked for their help. Where is your father Clinton? And
18 they had offended him with other words. And that's when he told me they
19 had beaten him with the chairs.
20 Q. Did -- did they -- apart from the photographs, did the police find
21 anything else?
22 A. He said that when the police broke the door into one of the room,
23 they had found helmets and bullet-proof vests of the OSCE. And my husband
24 told me: It was there that they beat me up the most.
25 Q. Okay. Did -- did the police also come to the side of the house
1 where you were?
2 A. I was in the house when they took my husband, and in the meantime
3 a policeman came. He was young, and he came to me. Upstairs on the first
4 floor, we were all of us there, the children, Faton's wife, Fatoni.
5 They -- He started searching the cupboards, and I told him: There's
6 nothing in there, it's just children's clothes. And while he was leaving,
7 he found a small bag. It was Sebahate's bag. He took that bag and
8 searched it. And when he saw that there was nothing in that bag, he threw
9 it away. It was just medicine that he found in there. And he beckoned to
10 me: Come to this basement. And when I went to the basement he made this
11 gesture: Do you have any money because your husband is at risk?
12 So I went upstairs. I took a thousand Deutschemarks from Sebahate
13 and went to the basement and gave the money to him. But he said: This is
14 not enough for your husband's life. You have to give me more. I told
15 him: This is all I have. And he went out. I remained in the corridor of
16 the house.
17 In the meantime, I was trying to have a look what was going on in
18 the courtyard, and a policeman came. He had several knives on his chest.
19 He was older. He had a very aggressive face, and he started to run
20 towards me and said: Oh, let me have a look at this woman, how
21 good-looking she is. It was said in a very provocative way. I was so
22 scared, very frightened of him. He was bare-chested, unbuttoned, and he
23 had these knives on his chest.
24 But this other policeman that I gave the thousand Deutschemarks
25 to, he ran off to him and said: Zarko, Zarko, wait. I think even if he
1 came two steps further he would catch me, he would be able to catch me.
2 Q. What did you do after that?
3 A. So he took that policeman away. I sat down. I was so scared. I
4 don't know how I did not faint. And then the three policemen who took my
5 husband -- so the three policemen who took my husband, they brought him
6 back. And when they were at the door, they hit him and swore at him.
7 Things like: The Americans, your Americans that you have asked for
8 assistance from them.
9 Q. Did you see your husband being beaten?
10 A. Yes, yes, I did.
11 Q. And --
12 A. It was right in front of my eyes.
13 Q. And it was -- it was the policemen you had seen earlier in the
14 day, the people you describe as policemen who were beating him?
15 A. Yes, the one with the black gloves. He kicked him and beat him
16 right there at the doorstep.
17 Q. Did -- did you notice whether the -- whether anything was being
18 removed from your side of the house at that point in time?
19 A. Yes. When I was waiting for my husband, I saw that there was a
20 truck in front of the house and they had loaded it with television-sets,
21 heaters, some other equipment, computers, whatever they could find there.
22 It was not a very big truck.
23 Q. Where did that equipment come from? Was it your equipment? Did
24 it belong to the OSCE? What was it?
25 A. Some was -- some were our equipment, such as the heaters, for
1 example. But the others were OSCE's, such as the computers.
2 MR. MARCUSSEN: Your Honours, we have -- I can sort of go into the
3 next series of events, but we could also break at this point although we
4 are a little bit early. I don't know what Your Honours prefer.
5 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you very much.
6 Ms. Berisha, we have to interrupt now for lunchtime, and we will
7 resume again at 2.00. So you can leave the courtroom and return, please,
8 for 2.00.
9 MR. MARCUSSEN: And, Your Honour, should we remind the witness
10 that during the break she cannot speak to others. I don't remember
11 whether she has been told that.
12 JUDGE BONOMY: We'll deal with that if it arises later,
13 Mr. Marcussen.
14 [The witness stands down]
15 JUDGE BONOMY: So the court will resume at 2.00.
16 --- Luncheon recess taken at 12.28 p.m.
17 --- On resuming at 2.01 p.m.
18 JUDGE BONOMY: With reference to the Witness K83, the Trial
19 Chamber has decided that the particular circumstances affecting this
20 witness do merit the requirement of the log, and therefore that will be
21 incorporated into the written order which will be issued as soon as
23 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
24 JUDGE BONOMY: It's been explained to me for reasons which do not
25 appear to be the fault of the witness she's just arrived back in the
1 building this minute, so she should be with us shortly.
2 [Trial Chamber confers]
3 [The witness entered court]
4 JUDGE BONOMY: Ms. Berisha, your evidence will now continue.
5 Mr. Marcussen.
6 MR. MARCUSSEN:
7 Q. Good afternoon, Madam Berisha.
8 A. Good afternoon.
9 Q. I'm sorry you had to be pulled in to the courtroom this way.
10 There seems to have been a mistake. It's not being held against you.
11 Madam Berisha, I'd like to ask you -- we spoke about the 25th of
12 March, 1999, before we stopped. You have explained that you handed some
13 money over, a thousand Deutschemarks I think you said, to the policemen --
14 to one of the policemen who came to your house that day. Did anybody else
15 give money to the police that day?
16 A. Yes. Later on I gave him money. As well I had some on my chest
17 because they said to my husband: You either give us money or else look at
18 our tank. It's in front of your house and we will blow up the place.
19 Q. Apart from you, did anybody else give money to the police?
20 A. Yes. When my husband told me that they were asking for money, I
21 gave the money that I had and my sister-in-law also had some money in her
22 chest and she gave him this money as well just to be safe. But as she was
23 trying to pull out the money, the policeman went and put his hands into
24 her chest and took the money himself.
25 Q. And you say the policeman, which policeman was that?
1 A. The policeman with the black gloves.
2 Q. And you mentioned that you were being threatened with a tank that
3 would shell your house. Had you seen that --
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Had you seen a tank in the vicinity of your house that day?
6 A. Yes, I had seen it before when they came and took my husband, when
7 the policeman with the knives ran towards my direction. This is when I
8 saw it. It was opposite the house of Agron Berisha.
9 MR. MARCUSSEN: May I ask that we get P189, page 1 up on the
10 screen, please.
11 Q. While we wait for that to come up, could you describe the tank for
12 me. What colour did it have?
13 A. Well, I don't know. It was kind of green colour, green-grey
15 Q. And how -- why do you say it was a tank? Could you try to
16 describe how the vehicle you saw as a tank, how did that look?
17 A. It was made of metal. It had big tires. It -- the tires were
18 made of rubber and smaller, not that big as some of the bigger tanks, and
19 it had the cannon in front. I don't -- I don't know the correct name.
20 Maybe it's not a tank, maybe it's a Pinzgauer. I don't know really.
21 Q. But you saw it had wheels?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Now, on the picture you have on the screen, the location -- can
24 you see the location of the tank on this picture? Or is it outside the
1 A. The tank was here, approximately, near our house, in line with
2 Agron's house.
3 Q. The usher has given you a pen, and if you could ...
4 A. Approximately it was here.
5 Q. So it was on the road in front of your house where you have made a
6 dot now?
7 A. Yes, on the road in front of my house, in front of Agron's house
8 actually because it's here approximately, the location where it was.
9 Q. Could I ask you to write an A, like alpha, next to the dot you
10 just made so we can identify it later.
11 A. [Marks].
12 Q. Thank you.
13 How long did you -- do you think the police stayed all in all that
14 day at your house?
15 A. Well, I don't know exactly. They did stay but not that long.
16 Q. After they had left, did you stay in the house -- in your own
18 A. No. We were very scared, and we went to the house of my uncle --
19 to my husband's uncle, Vesel Berisha, which is just behind our house.
20 Q. Is that the house that has number 2 on the picture you can see?
21 A. Yes, yes.
22 Q. And the house where -- where your uncle lived, number 2 on the
23 map, who lived on that house?
24 A. Sedat and his family lived in this house, so with his wife and his
25 three children, then his brother Bujar with his wife and three children,
1 his other brother Nexhmedin with his wife and his mother and father.
2 Q. So if we look at the family-tree again, would that be people who
3 are in the upper right-hand quarter of the family-tree?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. So did you spend the night in Vesel's house?
6 A. Yes. My entire family and Vesel's -- Uncle Vesel's family spent
7 the night together there. In total, we were 25.
8 Q. So are they -- the people that are marked with a colour in the
9 upper row of the family-tree, you were all there. Is that correct?
10 Except for Arben and Ismet and Faik and Bahrije and Vesel himself, but the
11 people who that have the colour were there. Is that correct?
12 A. Yes, yes. Those with -- in red and in blue.
13 Q. Thank you. Now I'd like to move on to the next day, the 26th of
14 March, 1999. In the morning of the 26th, did you see any -- did you see
15 any heavy equipment belonging to either the police or the military in the
16 vicinity of your house?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. What did you see?
19 A. Throughout the day you could see vehicles, policemen. We were
20 always -- we always wanted to escape, but we couldn't because of this
21 large movement. Behind the house, there were two tanks, big tanks,
22 situated just above our houses.
23 Q. Now, let's first deal with where those tanks were. Now, if we
24 look again at the photograph you have on the screen, were the tanks
25 located at a place you can see in the photograph or outside the
2 A. You cannot see it here. It's much more behind.
3 Q. "Behind" meaning what direction? Up -- up, above the numbers?
4 A. They are behind number 1 and 2. You cannot see the location where
5 they were.
6 Q. Approximately how far do you think they were away, the tanks, when
7 you saw them?
8 A. I don't know how far it is, but there were no more houses there.
9 It was like a forest. There are no houses in that area.
10 Q. The terrain there, is it flat or does it go -- is it a hill that
11 go up or down behind the house?
12 A. Behind the houses it is like a hill, and further up it's a
13 mountain, it's a forest.
14 Q. And so tanks were up on the hill somewhere up behind the house.
15 Is that how I should understand it?
16 A. Yes, yes.
17 Q. Now, you described these as tanks. What colour were they, if you
19 A. As far as I can remember, they were green, green-grey colour.
20 Q. And when you described them as tanks you said they were big --
21 they were very big. Did they look different from the one you had seen the
22 day before?
23 A. Yes. The one that was in front of the house had rubber tires,
24 while these had chains and were much bigger.
25 Q. Could you -- they had -- the -- I don't think it came through in
1 the translation how you described what they had instead of wheels. Could
2 you try to describe that again, please?
3 A. Yes, yes. This is what I said. They did not have rubber tires,
4 but they had chains.
5 Q. Thank you. And did they have a cannon?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. What direction was that -- the cannon of the tanks pointing?
8 A. It was pointing towards our houses.
9 Q. And approximately when was this? Was it in the morning, in the
10 afternoon, middle of the day, that you saw them first time?
11 A. I saw them at approximately 10.00 or 10.30 while I, with my
12 youngest son, went from Sedat's house to Agron's mother.
13 Q. On that day did the police come to your house again?
14 A. The policemen came to the house, to Sedat's house, where we were
15 with our families.
16 Q. When did they come?
17 A. At around noon, at around 12.00, 12.20.
18 Q. Did you see them arrive?
19 A. Yes. I was in the sitting room together with the others. They
20 came out of the police station, which is -- which can be seen from the
21 house, it's in the direction of the house. When they came out of the
22 police station, they ran. There were a lot of them, they were wearing
23 uniforms and carrying automatic rifles. They first went to Ismet Kuci's
24 house and from there they came to the place where we were staying.
25 Q. And Ismet's house, is that on the photograph?
1 A. Yes, this one here.
2 Q. Does it have a number? Has it been marked with a number?
3 A. No. The one numbered is the house of Ahmet Berisha.
4 Q. Number 3 --
5 A. You cannot see all of the house on this photograph.
6 Q. Okay. How many policemen do you think you saw?
7 A. I don't remember now, but there were a lot. Too many.
8 Q. Were -- you said they were wearing uniforms. Were they all
9 wearing the same uniform or did they have different uniforms, if you
11 A. No, they were not all of them wearing the same uniform. I don't
12 remember them very clearly at the moment, but I know that they were
13 wearing uniforms.
14 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Marcussen, which house was pointed out as Ismet
15 Kuci's house?
16 MR. MARCUSSEN: That has not been marked. We can --
17 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, it's obviously one that is on the edge of the
18 picture. Is it one on the right or one on the left?
19 MR. MARCUSSEN:
20 Q. Would you please take --
21 A. On the right -- to the right of my house.
22 Q. Would you write, please -- you have been given the pen. Would you
23 put a B on Ismet's house, please.
24 A. Approximately it's here.
25 Q. So it's outside or just at the border of the picture. Thank you.
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Okay. So you saw the police. You saw them come running. There
3 were a lot of them coming to -- towards the house. Among the people that
4 came, were there also people who did not have a uniform on?
5 A. Yes, but a few. There were a few civilians who were not wearing
7 Q. Were those civilians armed, do you remember seeing that -- whether
8 you saw that?
9 A. Yes, yes. They were armed, and all of them were running.
10 Q. How did you react when you saw that?
11 A. I was very scared, we all were.
12 Q. Did anybody give you anything to calm you down?
13 A. I was very upset even from the night before when the policemen had
14 taken my husband and beaten him up, so I nearly fainted. I had the
15 feeling that I was going to faint, and Sedat gave me tranquillizers
16 because he could see that.
17 Q. Do you know what that tranquillizer was?
18 A. No, I don't. I just know that he gave it to me and he gave me a
19 glass of water. He said: Just drink this. You have to calm down a
20 little bit.
21 Q. And did that help?
22 A. I don't know. I was very scared.
23 Q. The police that came, were they -- were they asking for anybody in
25 A. The moment they came, one of them called Bujar in Albanian, this
1 person was Zoran. He spoke Albanian very well. He grew up with
2 Albanians, he ate together with Albanians. Everyone in Suhareke knew him,
3 so he called for Bujar in Albanian, and he was cursing in Albanian as much
4 as he could.
5 Q. Where were you and your family at that time?
6 A. We were all together in the sitting room in the first floor.
7 Q. So when Zoran called for Bujar, did Bujar go out?
8 A. No. Hava, Bujar's mother, went out and asked him: What do you
9 want? And he shouted at her and told her to go back in. Let Bujar come
10 out, he said.
11 Q. Did you and your family remain in the living-room or did you go
12 somewhere else?
13 A. No. All of us were there, inside.
14 Q. And did you stay -- did you remain in the living-room or did you
15 go to another part of the house?
16 A. No, we all remained there, in that room.
17 Q. And then what happened?
18 A. Hava went out. Zoran shouted at her and told her to go back in.
19 He was asking for Bujar to come outside. He was saying that they were
20 going to eliminate all the Albanians, they were going to kill all the
21 Albanians. And when Bujar came out, as soon as they saw him they cursed
22 him in Albanian, and I heard the gun-shots. And then --
23 Q. Could I -- so -- so Bujar got out of the building and you heard a
24 shot. Where were you when you heard the shot?
25 A. Inside. We were in the living-room while Bujar went to the
1 staircase and went out from the other entrance because the house had two
2 entrances. We were here in this living-room, and this living-room had
3 this entrance, while Bujar went through the corridor to the staircase and
4 came outside on this side.
5 Q. Can -- okay. Did the rest of you remain in the -- in the house or
6 did you leave the house at that time?
7 A. As soon as we heard the gun-shots, when Bujar went out, everybody
8 just screamed, children, men, women, and we began to run, some barefoot,
9 some with their shoes on. So we left the house, we went out in the
10 courtyard. I heard Bujar's son telling his mother: Mom, they killed our
12 Q. Sorry --
13 A. Bujar was laying down in the balcony.
14 Q. I'm just going to stop you for one moment. It looks like the
15 marked version of the --
16 JUDGE BONOMY: It's being attended to. If you need to go back to
17 it, we'll have to take action at that stage.
18 MR. MARCUSSEN: Well, we can also -- is it possible to make this
19 an in-court exhibit at a later stage and then we can just continue with a
20 clean copy if that's easier and we can get the number --
21 JUDGE BONOMY: A copy can be taken from the recording that's being
22 made to replace it. Are you going to use this again with more markings?
23 MR. MARCUSSEN: We might, depending on how things come out, get a
24 few more markings, but we can get it on a new copy. I just wanted to keep
25 the A and the B.
1 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, arrangements are being made to photocopy --
2 or to take a photograph of the one that's disappeared and it will be given
3 an IC number once that arrangement has been made.
4 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
5 JUDGE BONOMY: Wait until it's available. Don't give numbers to
6 non-existent exhibits. We'll wait until we know it's available and then
7 it will be given a number.
8 You can meanwhile carry on, Mr. Marcussen.
9 MR. MARCUSSEN: Thank you.
10 Q. I'm sorry for the interruption. The -- so you were all leaving
11 the building. Did you see Bujar after he had been shot yourself?
12 A. No.
13 Q. As you were running out of the house, did you -- did you see
14 anybody you recognised among the policemen?
15 A. The policeman who I recognised was Zoran. I recognised Zoran at
16 that moment.
17 Q. Later on did you recognise anybody else?
18 A. Well, we were running in the direction of our house. We passed
19 near Agron's house, and when we arrived here in front of the house I
20 stopped there with my children and with Sedat's daughter, Dafina. And the
21 first person that I recognised there was Miskovic. He was wearing a
22 civilian uniform.
23 Q. Okay. Thank you. Now, could I ask you to take the pen again --
24 or you will be given the pen again. Now Agron's house, which one is this
25 on the photograph?
1 A. This one here is Agron's house.
2 Q. So that's the one that's marked with a number 5, is that --
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. [Previous translation continues] ... now you said you --
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. -- you stopped with your daughter -- you stopped with your
7 daughter and then you saw the man you referred to as Miskovic. Where is
8 that on this photograph?
9 A. Here is where I stopped with my four children and Dafina, Sedat's
10 daughter. This is where we were, while here Miskovic -- while here I
11 remember this was where Miskovic had taken my husband. At the same time,
12 somebody else took Faton. I don't know who that was.
13 Q. Could I -- we need just to mark this so we remember it when we get
14 to this later on.
15 Now, the place that you stopped, would you mark that with an A,
16 please. If you could just write A underneath or next to where you
18 A. [Marks].
19 Q. Okay. That became an A, yeah. And where you saw Miskovic, could
20 you mark that with a B, please.
21 A. [Marks].
22 Q. And so you said that Miskovic had -- was with your husband. Is
23 that correct?
24 A. Yes. And I could hear very well when he was shouting at my
25 husband. He told him: Raise your hands. Up with your hands. And he
1 shot him.
2 Q. And --
3 A. He cursed my husband and shot him.
4 Q. And you said you saw somebody grab on to Faton. Was that at
5 approximately the same location?
6 A. Yes. Yes. Another policeman took Faton, but in the meantime
7 Faton's mother was with Faton and she grabbed her son's hand and told him:
8 Don't take my son. I'll come instead of him. At the same time there were
9 several other policemen on this side and some civilians, and they also
10 were shouting.
11 Q. Okay. I think we will -- we can stop with the markings for a
12 little bit. Did you also see Nexhmedin and Sedat?
13 A. I remember Sedat. It's here where the policeman took them. And
14 Sedat was trying to go towards Agron's house. I think he was trying to
15 escape. I remember it very well when a police grabbed him by the arm and
16 asked him: Where are you going? And he said: I'm going to have a look
17 at Bujar. And from that moment on, I did not see Sedat anymore.
18 Q. Okay. Now, you were standing at -- at the point that you marked
19 before with A. The people that had come out of the house, I understand
20 they were running. What direction were they running in?
21 A. The people who were leaving the house -- I can't remember. I did
22 not see anyone. I remember my children and Dafina, and when the policeman
23 shot Nexhat my daughter screamed. She screamed so loud that I think the
24 whole of Suhareke could hear her. I did not see the other people, where
25 they were running to.
1 Q. Did your children run away from your house?
2 A. At that moment, Nexhmedin and Lirije were holding hands. Lirije
3 was Nexhmedin's wife. She was pregnant. She was only two weeks from her
4 due date, and they were holding hands when we heard the shout: Shoot at
5 them, shoot at them, and I did not see Nexhmedin anymore with Lirije. And
6 when I saw that he had fallen down, I told my children: Escape because
7 they will kill us all. It was Altin, my son, I was holding his hand while
8 Majlinda and Redon, the younger one, Majlinda was holding him. Herolinda
9 was going in another direction and I ran after her. So we divided into
10 two groups, me and my children.
11 Q. Okay. So the children that did not stay with you, what direction
12 did they move in?
13 A. My children, I know that they went in this direction, while myself
14 and my daughter, we went to the -- towards the bus station, the police
15 station, while my other daughter with my two sons and Dafina went to the
16 other side.
17 Q. So your children went down in the direction of the number 6?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And you yourself went in the direction of the arrows going down --
20 downwards and in front of the buses and then horizontally on the map. Is
21 that --
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Thank you.
24 MR. MARCUSSEN: Let's make this one an exhibit.
25 THE REGISTRAR: That would be IC45, Your Honours.
1 JUDGE BONOMY: Do you have the other one yet available?
2 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
3 MR. MARCUSSEN: Could we see page 3 of this same exhibit, please.
4 Here we are.
5 So this is -- now, that's an interesting thing. There seems to be
6 some markings floating there from the last one. Are they kept on the
7 previous --
8 JUDGE BONOMY: It's now clear, so you can carry on.
9 MR. MARCUSSEN: Okay.
10 Q. Madam Berisha, there's something marked with a number 1 up in the
11 right-hand corner. What is that? A building.
12 A. I can only see number 2. Oh, yes, yes, I apologise. Now I can
13 see number 1 as well. Number 2 is the police station. I apologise,
14 number 1.
15 Q. Number 1 is the police station. Thank you. And --
16 A. Yes, yes.
17 Q. So when you started to run past the bus station, where did you go?
18 A. From the bus station towards the] Petrol station. At the petrol
19 station Jashar Berisha asked me: What's the problem? What's the matter,
20 Nexhat's wife? I told him: Uncle Jashar, all the men were killed. And I
21 was running as fast as I can -- as I could. And when I came to this
22 direction, I saw my daughter Herolinda, she was before me, and I saw the
23 whole family that had gathered together.
24 Q. Where did -- where had the family gathered?
25 A. The family had gathered in front of a coffee shop here,
1 approximately here.
2 Q. Is the coffee shop, is there a line going down to approximately
3 where the coffee shop was and is it attached to a number on the picture?
4 A. Yes, number 2.
5 Q. Did you speak to anybody from your family when you went to the
6 coffee shop?
7 A. Yes, of course I spoke.
8 Q. Who did you first speak to?
9 A. First of all, I spoke with Avdija, Avdi Berisha, and I asked him:
10 Why have you gathered here, why did you stop? And he told me that the
11 police told them to stay there, and he didn't say anything else. He just
12 kept his head down.
13 Q. Did you see any police there at that time?
14 A. No. When I went there where the whole family was, there were no
15 policemen in the beginning. Majlinda came later with Altin and Dafina.
16 And Altin was very pale in his face and he told me: Mom, I've been
17 wounded, I've been wounded on my hand.
18 At that time Lirije came, Nexhmedin's wife, and she said to me:
19 Come, please come, because Uncle Nexhat is wounded and he is asking for
20 you to go and help him. She told the same thing to Hava, her
21 mother-in-law: Come, please, because Nexhmedin is dying and we need to
22 help them.
23 Q. [Previous translation continues] ...
24 A. Hava and Lirije went together. I told Lirije: I can't. I don't
25 want them to kill me and I don't want my children to remain without a
1 mother and a father, and I did not go.
2 Q. Did you go inside the coffee shop?
3 A. Yes. At that moment when I was speaking with Lirije, lots of
4 policemen came and they ordered us to go inside the coffee shop.
5 Q. Apart from the part of the Berisha family that you were from and
6 Vesel's family, were there members of any other branches of the Berisha
7 family in the coffee shop at that time?
8 A. Yes, there were others by the Berisha surname --
9 Q. Other -- for example, the families of Vesel and Sofije Berisha, is
10 that right, as you've indicated on the family-tree?
11 A. Yes, yes. Vesel's and Sofije's family. Avdi's family, Musli's
12 family, and Hamdi's family.
13 Q. And you have indicated on the family-tree in blue which parts of
14 the family you remember -- of that side of the family you remember seeing
15 at the coffee shop - is that correct - down at the bottom?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And you mentioned Avdi. Did he had any of his relatives with him?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Who --
20 A. His wife, his son, his brothers.
21 Q. You -- you were inside the coffee shop. What happened then?
22 A. When we were ordered to go in, they also told us to sit down. We
23 sat down, and they started shooting.
24 Q. [Previous translation continues] ... see who was shooting?
25 A. The Serb policemen were shooting.
1 Q. From where you were, could you see them or are you inferring from
2 the people you saw around the place before that it was the police?
3 A. I saw the policemen when they ordered us to go inside. And when
4 we went inside, they started shooting.
5 MR. MARCUSSEN: Your Honours, I'm -- we can go into the events in
6 more detail if you would like me to put more evidence about who in the
7 coffee shop, what happened, but the witness has accepted this exhibit. So
8 maybe we can move on without going into those details. I think it's
9 difficult for the witness, so I'm seeking your guidance on what Your
10 Honours would need.
11 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, is her experience of what happened confined
12 to shooting?
13 MR. MARCUSSEN: Well, I can clarify that with my -- with the
14 witness. I understand that there were also grenades thrown --
15 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, I'm only looking at the summary you've given
16 us. Is it not of some importance to establish what weaponry was used?
17 That's quite different from the detail of the consequences.
18 MR. MARCUSSEN: Yeah, let's cover that.
19 Q. Apart from shooting, did you hear any explosions in the coffee
21 A. Yes. They also threw something and they exploded and people died.
22 After they shot with their automatic rifles, they threw something. But I
23 don't know what exactly that was; it just exploded.
24 Q. Did they do that once or several times?
25 A. Twice. Whenever they saw anybody that was still alive, they threw
1 those things in.
2 Q. And between they threw these things in, were there shooting?
3 A. Yes. I think they were grenades that they threw in because the
4 shrapnel from the grenade that they threw in was taken out of my abdomen
5 at the hospital. I'm not sure exactly what kind of explosive that was.
6 Q. And if you are able to describe the -- the shooting, do you think
7 it came from automatic weapons or are you able to describe the kind of
8 shooting you heard?
9 A. In the beginning they shot with automatic guns. I'm not -- I
10 don't know what kinds of weapons they are, but I know the second time when
11 they saw that I was alive they shot at me again. It took -- the bullet
12 went into my shoulder and it was my luck that I remained alive.
13 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Marcussen, how many survivors were there?
14 MR. MARCUSSEN: My understanding is there was the witness and two
16 JUDGE BONOMY: Yeah. Now, if what you're -- you seek to avoid
17 going into detail on is the victims, then I don't think we require you to
18 do that.
19 MR. MARCUSSEN: That is indeed what I am -- I think it was a
20 fairly gruesome scene and the witness's children were there and close
21 relatives. So I think that's very difficult to talk about, so we would be
22 happy not to go into that too much.
23 Q. Madam Berisha, when -- when the shooting eventually stopped, did
24 anybody come into the shop?
25 A. Yes. The people who entered the shop were speaking in Serbian:
1 We have to load these into -- on to the truck. We don't need these people
3 Q. Did you see the people who got into the shop or were you not
4 looking at them?
5 A. No, I didn't see them. I was lying on my stomach. I was
6 pretending I was dead because when they thought somebody was alive, when
7 they were lifting them up, they shot them. Even my son, when they lifted
8 him up, they saw that he was alive, they shot him there and then. Only
9 Gramoz, they could not -- did not see that he was alive, and that was his
10 luck, his destiny, to remain alive. And Vjollca and me, they did not see
11 that we were alive.
12 MR. MARCUSSEN: So Vjollca and Gramoz are the names of the other
13 two survivors apart from the witness. They are -- on the family-tree they
14 are part of the family of Vesel and Hava Berisha up on the top right-hand
15 side of the Exhibit P2346.
16 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
17 MR. MARCUSSEN:
18 Q. The bodies that were taken out of the -- of the coffee shop, where
19 were they taken?
20 A. So we were loaded on the truck and the truck went in the direction
21 of Prizren.
22 Where I was speaking about Vjollca, Vjollca noticed that I was
23 alive and she spoke to me and she said: Only Gramoz is alive. And at
24 that time, thinking that maybe I would be able to find my husband alive, I
25 said to Vjollca: Shall we jump off? And we need to tell what these
1 policemen, the Serb policemen, did to our family only because we were
2 Albanians. I jumped off first and then Vjollca came behind me. And
3 somebody on the road took me, picked me up.
4 Q. So --
5 A. I don't know where the truck went.
6 MR. MARCUSSEN: Excuse me one minute.
7 [Prosecution counsel confer]
8 MR. MARCUSSEN:
9 Q. Do you know what happened to Gramoz? Did he also jump off; do you
11 A. Yes, he did. So after me, it was Vjollca and Gramoz that jumped
12 off. So only us three are alive, where the rest we don't even know where
13 their bones are lying, where their bodies are lying now, with the
14 exception of the men and Fatime.
15 Q. I'm not having an awful lot of questions left for you. But before
16 we move on to what happened to you after you had jumped off.
17 MR. MARCUSSEN: I'd like to call up Exhibit 2344, please.
18 Q. And while we're waiting for that to come up, Madam Berisha, when
19 you spoke to -- you gave a statement to the Office of the Prosecutor in
20 March of this year. And while you were here you were also shown a number
21 of photographs of -- of different people and you were asked whether you
22 could -- whether you knew the people on the photograph. Do you remember
24 A. Yes. These are from the Berisha family, but I don't know all
25 their names.
1 Q. And an investigator noted down whether you knew the name of the
2 person on the picture and whether or not you remembered seeing that person
3 in the coffee shop. Is that correct?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. You already said that this -- this person you're not sure the name
6 of the person, but you know this person to be a member of the Berisha
7 family. Is that correct?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. What part of the Berisha family?
10 A. This is Avdi Berisha's family, that part of the family. In fact,
11 Avdi's brothers.
12 Q. And so that is -- on the family-tree it's someone from the mid-row
13 of the family-tree. Avdi is in middle -- the middle family, so it's
14 somebody at the --
15 A. Yes, Saiti and Hanumsha family-tree
16 Q. And the girl we see in this picture, do you remember seeing her
17 in the coffee shop. Is that correct?
18 A. Yes.
19 MR. MARCUSSEN: Could we go to the next page of the exhibit.
20 Q. The same question: Do you know who this is?
21 A. Yes. This was Avdi's mother.
22 Q. Avdi's mother, okay. Was she at the coffee shop?
23 A. Yes, yes, she was.
24 MR. MARCUSSEN: And if we could go to the next page.
25 Q. The girl we see on this picture, was she a member of the Berisha
1 family, to your knowledge?
2 A. Yes. She also is a daughter of the old lady's sons, one of those.
3 Q. And do you remember her at the coffee shop?
4 A. Yes.
5 MR. MARCUSSEN: [Previous translation continues] ... the last page
6 of this exhibit, please.
7 Q. This gentleman, do you know who he is?
8 A. Yes. This is Avdi's brother, his elder brother, Musli Berisha.
9 Q. And do you remember seeing him in the coffee shop?
10 A. Yes.
11 MR. MARCUSSEN: Now I'd also like if we can show Exhibit 117,
12 page 1, please.
13 JUDGE BONOMY: Ms. Berisha, was the older lady in the photograph
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I think it was Hanumsha. I don't
16 know her name. I am not sure --
17 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] -- about the names.
19 MR. MARCUSSEN: I should maybe explain. We have this continued
20 scanning and printing process of these photographs do make them lose
21 quality. We have another version of these photographs in e-court and they
22 will be shown to another witness later on. It's quite clear that they are
23 the same photographs, but what we see in e-court is not the best quality.
24 Sorry, maybe we should go to page number 2. Okay. Can we zoom in
25 on the bottom one first, please.
1 Q. Do you recognise this place?
2 A. Yes, this is the coffee shop that the Serb police ordered us to be
4 MR. MARCUSSEN: And can we go up and look at the other one of
5 these pictures, please?
6 Q. And this?
7 A. Yes, this is where Dafina was, Vjollca's daughter. This is where
8 my second daughter was, this is where my elderly was daughter, where Avdi
9 and his wife Lirije were.
10 Q. Thank you. I don't think we need to make markings on the
12 MR. MARCUSSEN: But clearly the witness is indicating where
13 various people were on this photograph.
14 Q. Okay. We'll go back to where we took off before we started to
15 look at these photographs again.
16 You jumped off the truck. Do you know the name of where you got
17 off the truck or jumped off the truck?
18 A. Not at the very moment, I didn't, but from the people who picked
19 me up I learned that I jumped off at the village of Malasia e Re. It's on
20 the road to Prizren.
21 Q. The road to Prizren where?
22 A. From Suhareke to Prizren.
23 Q. Thank you. We will jump somewhat quickly for what -- from here on
24 out. Did you receive treatment for your injuries after you had gotten off
25 the truck?
1 A. Yes. I was taken to Grejkoc village, but they didn't have much
2 medicine to treat me. They administered IV. I had some stitches on my
3 arm. It was done with an ordinary thread, but I was told that they had to
4 do it.
5 Q. How many wounds had you sustained? You told us already that you
6 had been shot in the shoulder and that a shrapnel had been taken out of
7 your abdomen. Did you receive other wounds?
8 A. Yes. On the shoulder the bullet went through my shoulder. Also
9 on my leg in the right-hand side of the leg, and the exit wound was on the
10 other side. And my back is full of shrapnels, small pieces of grenades,
11 same with my stomach. I had wounds all over my body.
12 Q. Thank you. Are you saying the shrapnels are still there, they
13 have not been removed?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. How long did you stay -- how long did you stay in Kosovo after
17 A. One month. I stayed for one month in Kosova in the mountains,
18 wounded, and there I saw all sorts of things. And I don't think books and
19 computers can memorise everything that I've seen with my own eyes,
20 everything that I went through. I've seen children dying, young girls
21 dying. I seen my cousin, my uncle's daughter, who went crazy and many,
22 many other things.
23 Q. Let's talk about the day you left Kosovo. Approximately when did
24 you leave Kosovo?
25 A. I remember it very well. I think it was the 6th of May. From the
1 village of Vraniq we went to Sopija village. There there was a Serb, a
2 different Serb, who was dressed in uniform. He stopped my father and
3 asked: Where are you going? We were all in tractors. And my father
4 answered just by raising his hands in the air and saying just: I don't
6 Q. Sorry --
7 A. And he just said to my father: If you come back, we will kill
9 Q. The man who was in a uniform, what kind of uniform was that? What
10 was the colour, if you remember?
11 A. I don't remember now but he was old. He was not young. He was
12 about 55 years old, I would say. He was wearing a uniform - that I know -
13 but I don't know the colour of the uniform.
14 Q. Thank you. Did -- were you -- were anybody asked to pay any money
15 from your family?
16 A. From Vraniq when we arrived at Bukoshi school, there was hassle
17 there as well. I was in a very bad condition. There were a lot of Serbs,
18 some in uniforms, some without uniforms. They stopped our tractors. They
19 separated the women and placed them in the school building, and then the
20 women told us that they had taken all the valuables from them. They took
21 the men and they never returned them. They took my uncle and some elderly
22 persons. After a few hours, they released the elderly persons, but not
23 the men.
24 Q. Where did you cross into Albania? Do you know the name of the
25 place where you crossed over the border?
1 A. In Kukes.
2 Q. Okay. Before you left Albania, was anything taken away from you
3 and the other people in the convoy?
4 A. The same thing happened when we came at the border. The policemen
5 were with automatic rifles pointed at us and asked for money, for gold.
6 And they said: We will get our automatic rifles ready and to shoot you,
7 and the women gave them everything they had from the valuables. And then
8 they allowed us to cross the border and get into Albania.
9 Q. You described the people who did this as being policemen. Why do
10 you say that?
11 A. They were wearing uniforms, all of them, at the border.
12 Q. These particular men, do you remember the uniform they were
13 wearing or just that they were wearing a uniform?
14 A. Well, now I don't remember the colour of the uniform. Many years
15 have passed and my head is not what it used to be. I just remember that
16 they had uniforms on and that they were carrying automatic rifles and that
17 they were very aggressive.
18 Q. What about your identity papers, were you allowed to take them
19 with you to Albania?
20 A. Yes. They asked for identity documents. I didn't have anything
21 with me. But, yes, they did ask for identity documents, and who had them
22 with them they submitted the documents to the police.
23 Q. And were they given the identity papers back or not?
24 A. No, never. They would take your life let alone identity cards.
25 Q. Okay. After these events you stayed in Albania for a while, I
1 understand. And --
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And you were -- were you interviewed by the OSCE; do you remember?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And you were -- you were also interviewed by the Office of the
6 Prosecutor of this Tribunal. Did you at some point in time give a blood
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And who did you give that blood sample to, if you remember?
10 A. To the Tribunal, to The Hague Tribunal. When I went to have this
11 operation in Albania, to have this shrapnel removed from my stomach, I
12 know that they took some blood from me. But later on, I know that blood
13 samples were taken by The Hague Tribunal.
14 Q. Thank you.
15 MR. MARCUSSEN: Your Honours, for now that concludes my questions.
16 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you, Mr. Marcussen.
17 Mr. O'Sullivan.
18 MR. O'SULLIVAN: Your Honour, the order will be: General Lukic,
19 General Pavkovic, General Ojdanic, General Lazarevic, Mr. Sainovic, and
20 Mr. Milutinovic.
21 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic.
22 Cross-examination by Mr. Lukic:
23 Q. [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Mrs. Berisha. My name is Branko
24 Lukic. I will ask you to find some more strength in you, if you can,
25 please, to help us clarify some remaining matters. In my questioning I
1 will jump from one point to another. It will not be following a narrative
2 like the Prosecutors did. So I will mention to you certain dates, in
3 relation to which I will have some questions.
4 When you mentioned that the OSCE arrived in Suva Reka in 1998 and
5 stayed at the Boss Hotel in Shiroko, did the owner of that hotel have the
6 name of Miskovic, just was it the same man as the one who later
7 participated in the killing of your family?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Are you aware that because of that fact people from the OSCE moved
10 to your house? Were you afraid that some of them -- is it because of that
11 fact that they moved from that hotel to your house, is it because of that
12 that this man bore a grudge against your family?
13 A. The OSCE came, moved to our house out of their free will. They
14 did not come there to protect us.
15 Q. I see there was some misunderstanding by interpreters, both into
16 English and into Albanian. Maybe my question was not phrased in the
17 happiest possible way. Are you aware that the owner of the Boss Hotel had
18 quarrelled with or attacked your husband or any other member of your
19 family because OSCE staff had moved from his hotel to your house?
20 A. I don't know that. Ask him. He should know. My husband didn't
21 tell me anything, but he must know.
22 Q. Thank you. Already on the 24th of March, 1999, lootings began in
23 Suva Reka. For instance, the house of Murat Suka was looted. Isn't that
25 A. Yes, that's what I heard. Personally, I didn't see it.
1 Q. At that moment, was Murat Suka at his home; do you know?
2 A. I don't know.
3 Q. Thank you.
4 JUDGE BONOMY: Is that a convenient place to interrupt you,
5 Mr. Lukic?
6 MR. LUKIC: Yes, Your Honour.
7 JUDGE BONOMY: Ms. Berisha, we need another break, and that will
8 be for half an hour. So could you now please leave the courtroom, and we
9 will see you again at 4.00.
10 [The witness stands down]
11 JUDGE BONOMY: And we'll adjourn now until 4.00.
12 --- Recess taken at 3.29 p.m.
13 --- On resuming at 4.02 p.m.
14 [The witness entered court]
15 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic.
16 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
17 Q. Mrs. Berisha, can we continue?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Thank you. When I asked you about the looting of the house of
20 Murat Suka, we heard that you hadn't been there and you had not been
21 present. Do you know if OSCE property was stolen or his personal property
22 was stolen?
23 A. I don't know. I only know what I was told that people entered,
24 broke into his house, and stole things from his house.
25 Q. Thank you. When you were informed that some people had
1 inquired -- or rather, the former OSCE guard inquired about their copier
2 machine, that was suspicious to you, wasn't it?
3 A. I don't understand. What suspicion are you referring to?
4 Q. Were you afraid that you may be looted, that OSCE property from
5 your house may be looted?
6 A. They didn't ask me about the copier machine, they asked my
7 husband. The guard, Miskovic's brother, asked my husband about this, not
9 Q. In your statement you said it sounded suspicious to you. That's
10 why I asked that question, where you were suspicious because you were
11 afraid that your house may be looted or for some other reason.
12 A. As I said, he didn't ask me, he asked my husband. But of course
13 we were scared. Whenever we would hear that they were breaking into
14 houses, we were scared.
15 Q. Thank you. I will take you back for a moment to this person
16 Miskovic whom we discussed before. Do you know that his house had been
17 hit a month before these events from a hand-held rocket-launcher?
18 A. No, I don't know.
19 Q. Thank you. When you speak about the 25th of March, 1999, in your
20 statement, you say that you did not recognise any of those people and that
21 you believe they were not policemen from Suva Reka. Paragraph 3 on page 4
22 on the English version; and page 5, paragraph 2 in Albanian; and
23 paragraph 4, page 4 in B/C/S. Is it correct that you did not recognise
24 any of those policemen?
25 A. No. On that day when these policemen came early in the morning, I
1 didn't recognise any of them. However, later on my daughter who was
2 upstairs in the living room, she said to me: Mom, this is the policeman
3 that I told my grandpa about. She always told my father about this
4 policeman who would get on the bus and travel from Mushtisht to Suhareke.
5 So this is what my daughter told me, but personally I didn't recognise
7 Q. Thank you. So you, yourself, do not know to which unit these men
9 A. No, I don't. As for this policeman that I mentioned, I only heard
10 of him through my daughter, when she said that this is the policeman from
11 Mushtisht. Personally, I didn't know him, my father did.
12 Q. Thank you. In your statement, English version page 7,
13 paragraph 1; Albanian version page 9, paragraph 1; and B/C/S version
14 page 7, paragraph 2 you say that you wanted to leave the house of Vesel
15 Berisha but you were not able to because of the shooting. Is it true that
16 that night gun-fire lasted all night -- or rather, there was fighting on
17 the slopes around the town between Serb forces and the KLA, specifically
18 in the direction of Rastane and Pecane?
19 A. No, I did not mention the KLA or Rashtane [phoen] or Peqan. What
20 I said is true. There was gun-fire heard throughout the night. This has
21 nothing to do with the KLA.
22 Q. Ma'am, do you know - and if you don't you can say so - that there
23 was fighting on the 25th of March, 1999, in Rastane between the KLA and
24 Serbian forces?
25 A. No, I don't know. I was in my house with my family.
1 Q. Thank you. In your statement, English version page 7,
2 paragraph 5; Albanian, page 9, last paragraph; B/C/S, page 7, last
3 paragraph you describe Zoran and you say that he spoke fluent Albanian and
4 that he was a driver of an Albanian bus. Do you know that he used to work
5 at the petrol station, a job where he was later replaced by Jashar
7 A. No, I don't know.
8 Q. Now I just want to ask you, when you talk about that incident
9 wherein people were running towards your house, and in your statement,
10 Albanian version paragraph 3 on page 9; Albanian page 7, paragraph 3 --
11 sorry, English version page 7, paragraph 3 --
12 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic, let me stop you for a moment. We're not
13 working from this statement, as you know, as it would be much easier if
14 you just asked your questions.
15 MR. LUKIC: Okay, I'll do that.
16 JUDGE BONOMY: And if you have to challenge the witness by use of
17 the statement, then go back to it. But this is just using a lot of words
18 that don't --
19 MR. LUKIC: Thank you, Your Honour.
20 JUDGE BONOMY: -- assist, I think, and probably not using your
21 time to best advantage.
22 MR. LUKIC: Thank you, Your Honour.
23 Q. [Interpretation] You heard from Sedat's son Drilon that he said to
24 his father: Look, there's Zoran in that group, the fat one. Is that
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Sedat looked out the window and said: "They are all from
3 Suva Reka. Zoran is there with his brother."
4 Is that correct?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. You are aware, thus, of the incident that happened when Serbian
7 women protested and when an OSCE vehicle hit Vera Petrovic. Is that
9 A. I did --
10 JUDGE BONOMY: Please, Mrs. Berisha, Mr. Marcussen is objecting to
11 that question, I think.
12 MR. MARCUSSEN: Yes, I am, Your Honour. The witness was not asked
13 about this in direct, and the Defence have not -- my learned colleague
14 haven't indicated that he was going to use the statement. I think we're
15 now getting out a little far from what this cross-examination should be
16 about. We're outside the scope of the direct and she's being
17 cross-examined on her witness statement which has not been notified to the
18 Prosecution at the beginning of the testimony of the witness.
19 Thank you.
20 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, the cross-examination isn't confined to the
21 incidents that are raised in the direct examination, and it's not clear at
22 the moment to me that the statement is a necessary prerequisite for asking
23 this particular question. I don't think in fact that Mr. Lukic has
24 referred to the statement. He's putting a point from his knowledge of the
25 information that this witness can give him, which may or may not assist
1 his case. And he's entitled to request questions of that nature.
2 So carry on, please, Mr. Lukic.
3 MR. LUKIC: Thank you, Your Honour.
4 Q. [Interpretation] Mrs. Berisha, you know about the incident when an
5 OSCE vehicle injured Vera Petrovic, the mother of the same Zoran that we
6 have mentioned before. Is that correct?
7 A. Yes, I heard about it but I did not see it myself. I just heard
8 about it.
9 Q. Thank you. Is it the case that Miskovic and Zoran were the
10 leaders when your family was assaulted and killed?
11 A. Yes. Because I could hear the shouts and Zoran's voice prevailed.
12 I could hear Zoran's voice all the time, maybe because I knew him, that he
13 was Zoran. I don't know. I don't know how to describe the scene, the
15 Q. I just wish to ask you about one more point. When you were on the
16 truck, the truck stopped and some woman outside the truck asked: Son, did
17 you finish the job? Did you hear those words?
18 A. Yes, I heard those words.
19 Q. A male voice answered: Yes.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. The female voice said: Have a good trip.
22 A. Yes, that's correct.
23 Q. The voice sounded familiar to you and you thought at that moment
24 that it was Laza's wife Vera, Zoran's mother?
25 A. I thought it was -- that's what I thought, yes. I did not see
1 her, but I heard the voice.
2 Q. Vjollca recognised the voice. She told you: Did you hear this,
3 it was Vera, Laza's wife?
4 A. Vjollca knows better, she knows better than me.
5 Q. But we may conclude that you both recognised Vera's voice on that
6 occasion. Is it not the case?
7 A. Yes. I think it was Vera's voice, Zoran's mother.
8 Q. Does that tell us that Vera knew in advance what was going to
9 happen to your family?
10 A. She knows that -- you can ask her about this. She would be able
11 to tell you whether she knew or not.
12 MR. LUKIC: Just a second.
13 [Defence counsel confer]
14 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]
15 Q. Also, at the moment when they were dragging you while you were
16 injured, somebody said: Hurry up, hurry up, we have to clean up here?
17 A. Yes. Yes, that's what they said in Serbian.
18 Q. May we then conclude that somebody wished to cover up this crime?
19 A. You can ask them. Those Serbs know. They know because they
20 committed the crime, they covered it up, and even today, seven years on,
21 they're still hiding what -- and covering up what they did. You can ask
22 them, sir.
23 Q. Thank you. I would only like to ask you this: At the moment when
24 your house was being surrounded --
25 A. You can ask me whatever you want.
1 Q. Thank you. Just one more question. While your house was being
2 surrounded, that group of men included civilians and gypsies. Is that
4 A. Yes, yes, some of them.
5 Q. Were gypsies also in civilian clothes?
6 A. Yes, there were some. Yes, some gypsies and Serbs.
7 Q. Thank you.
8 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I have no further questions.
9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] You're welcome.
10 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Aleksic -- oh, Mr. Ackerman, sorry.
11 MR. ACKERMAN: Ms. Berisha, I just want to express our sympathy
12 for what happened to you and your family and we have no questions of you.
13 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Sepenuk.
14 MR. SEPENUK: No questions, Your Honour.
15 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
16 Mr. Bakrac.
17 MR. BAKRAC: [Interpretation] No questions, Your Honour.
18 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
19 Mr. Petrovic.
20 MR. PETROVIC: [Interpretation] No questions, Your Honour.
21 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. O'Sullivan.
22 MR. O'SULLIVAN: No questions.
23 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
24 Mr. Marcussen.
25 MR. MARCUSSEN: Just one question on one area.
1 Re-examination by Mr. Marcussen:
2 Q. Ms. Berisha, Mr. Lukic asked you about the policemen that you
3 testified in direct examination that you did not know and then the -- the
4 policemen that you knew. Now, the policemen that came to your house on
5 the 25th, did you know any of those policemen?
6 A. On the 25th, I did not know or recognise any of them. My daughter
7 said that that policeman was from Mushtisht. I did not know him, but for
8 the past three months she had been travelling from Mushtisht to Suhareke
9 and she recognised him. She told me that, that was a policeman from
11 Q. And -- but on the 26th, the people that came to your house on that
12 day, among those were people you knew from Suva Reka. Is that what your
13 evidence is?
14 A. There were people I recognised, but I don't know their names. I
15 knew Miskovic's name. He had civilian clothes. He wasn't wearing police
16 uniform, but he had -- he was wearing all black. But also Zoran was there
17 and Miskovic's brother was there, the one who formerly was a guard at our
19 Q. Thank you.
20 MR. MARCUSSEN: Now, the other thing, Your Honours, I
21 understand that it was not --
22 JUDGE BONOMY: Before you move on.
23 Ms. Berisha, you said Miskovic had civilian clothes and then you
24 said he was wearing all black. Do you mean black civilian clothes?
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, black civilian clothes.
1 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
2 Mr. Marcussen.
3 MR. MARCUSSEN: I also -- sorry. I understand that it was not
4 possible to recover the exhibit that was lost in cyberspace, so I suggest
5 that we just re-create that exhibit. That should be a quick exercise. If
6 we could see page 1 of Exhibit 189.
7 Q. Ms. Berisha, you will remember that I asked you to indicate on
8 this photograph the place where you saw the -- the vehicle that you
9 described as a tank on the 25th and you put a mark A on this photograph.
10 We have lost the image that you marked on, so could I ask you to indicate
11 again where the tank was on the 25th.
12 A. Approximately here.
13 Q. Thank you. And on the same photograph you also indicated the
14 location of a house and you marked a B. I think it was Ismet's house.
15 Could I ask you to repeat where that was.
16 A. Ismet's house cannot be seen here.
17 Q. Could you indicate --
18 A. It's on this side. It cannot be seen.
19 Q. Could you make a dot --
20 A. This is my husband's cousin's house, but that house cannot be seen
22 Q. Could you mark -- maybe make an arrow indicating the direction in
23 which the house can be found.
24 A. Approximately in this direction.
25 Q. Thank you. Let's leave it at this. There's a dot in the upper
1 right-hand side of the photograph, indicating the direction out of the
2 picture where the house approximately is found.
3 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
4 MR. MARCUSSEN: I suggest we make this in-court exhibit something.
5 JUDGE BONOMY: Yeah.
6 THE REGISTRAR: That will be IC46, Your Honours.
7 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
8 MR. MARCUSSEN: The Prosecution is finished with the re-direct, so
9 we have no further questions for the witness.
10 [Trial Chamber confers]
11 Questioned by the Court:
12 JUDGE CHOWHAN: I'm sorry, I have a question. This is from the
14 I just wanted to understand what type of relationship you had with
15 Miskovic, who was the owner of the Boss Hotel. Was there a strong enmity
16 between you and them or the Berisha family because mainly the fact that
17 you -- you asked the OSCE to transfer its headquarters to your premises
18 and leave his hotel, which must be generating income for him. Was that
19 the basic cause which created more enmity between your family and
20 Miskovic -- I'm sorry if I'm not correctly -- pronouncing it correctly.
21 A. No, on the contrary. My husband's older brother was friends with
22 Miskovic and Miskovic's brother. On the contrary, as I said. We never
23 had any problems. We never had any problems with any of the Serbs there.
24 Our men did not have any conflict or any problem.
25 JUDGE CHOWHAN: So even after the shifting of the OSCE office to
1 your premises, which must have caused him a loss, the relationship did not
2 strain. Am I right?
3 A. There was no problem between us, no problem at all. I don't
4 know -- I'm not aware of any.
5 [Trial Chamber confers]
6 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Marcussen, is there any problem about
7 identifying the present whereabouts of the witness and is that
9 MR. MARCUSSEN: I don't think it's any problem. The witness is
10 not living in the region.
11 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
12 MR. MARCUSSEN: But -- excuse me. We could ask the witness
13 whether there would be any problem. I don't think so.
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I wouldn't like to disclose that,
15 but I can give it to you. I mean the information where I live. But I
16 don't want the accused to know where I am living now.
17 [Trial Chamber confers]
18 JUDGE BONOMY: No, that won't be necessary. Thank you.
19 Well, Mrs. Berisha, that concludes your evidence. The Trial
20 Chamber recognise the courage that it must have taken for you to come here
21 and talk of these brutal events. We thank you for coming to give your
22 evidence and confirm that you're now free to leave the court.
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
24 [The witness withdrew]
25 JUDGE BONOMY: Now, Mr. Marcussen, who is the next witness?
1 MR. MARCUSSEN: Your Honour, the next witness is K83. I don't
2 know whether we need break -- yes, I see from the AV booth we would need a
3 short 20-minute break to set up for that witness.
4 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, we will break now while that is done and
5 resume at five minutes to 5.00.
6 --- Recess taken at 4.34 p.m.
7 --- On resuming at 4.57 p.m.
8 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, I gather that for the witness to come in we
9 have to have the blinds drawn, so let's do that. And can I clarify
10 whether we have the same problem as we had before, that some of these
11 screens can be seen from the public gallery?
12 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honours.
13 JUDGE BONOMY: Is it only Mr. O'Sullivan's screen that's the
15 MR. O'SULLIVAN: Well, if it is, we won't put the video on.
16 JUDGE BONOMY: So can you make sure you won't use the video part
17 of the screen, and all the others should be facing away from the public
19 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
20 JUDGE BONOMY: Closed session.
21 [Closed session]
25 [Open session]
1 THE REGISTRAR: We are in open session, Your Honours.
2 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
3 Well, good afternoon, sir.
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good afternoon.
5 JUDGE BONOMY: The court is now set up so that your voice and your
6 appearance cannot be recognised by the public, and that will be the case
7 throughout your evidence. Could you now, therefore, make the solemn
8 declaration to tell the truth by reading aloud the document which will be
9 placed before you.
10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak
11 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
12 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you. Please be seated.
13 Mr. Marcussen.
14 WITNESS: WITNESS K83
15 [Witness answered through interpreter]
16 Examination by Mr. Marcussen:
17 Q. Good afternoon, sir.
18 MR. MARCUSSEN: Could the usher please show this document to the
20 Q. Sir, does that piece of paper contain a description of your
21 identity, please? Just answer yes or no.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. If you would hand that back to the usher and the usher can give
24 that to the Court.
25 MR. MARCUSSEN: There's -- an electronic version of this has been
1 uploaded into the e-court system and has P2352 as an exhibit number.
2 Q. Sir, you -- after completing your primary school and secondary
3 school, did you do your military service?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And after that did you start to work in factory in the town where
6 you lived?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Were you at any point in time asked to join the police?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. When approximately was that?
11 A. It was in 1993, after my military service was completed.
12 Q. Thank you.
13 MR. MARCUSSEN: Your Honours, just sorry for interrupting, I
14 should of course request that P2352 be placed under seal.
15 JUDGE BONOMY: Yes, that will be done.
16 MR. MARCUSSEN: Thank you.
17 Q. In what capacity did you join the police, as a reserve policeman
18 or as a full-time police officer?
19 A. As a reserve police officer.
20 Q. Were you issued a uniform?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Could you describe that uniform to the Court, please. What was
23 the colour?
24 A. Blue, camouflage work uniform.
25 Q. Were you also issued a weapon?
1 A. Yes, I was issued a weapon.
2 Q. In the beginning, how often did you -- were you on duty as a
3 police officer?
4 A. Well, two or three months. It depended on the situation.
5 Q. Is that once every two or three months or are we -- does that
6 mean -- so that means you were on duty once every two or three months?
7 A. Well, I would work for six months or three months. It depended.
8 Q. Did you get to be on duty more from 1998?
9 A. 1998, the entire year, all the way up to the war in 1999.
10 Q. Were you working full time during that period?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Why was there that increase in your duty as a police officer?
13 A. Because there was a labour shortage, if I can put it that way, in
14 the police force.
15 Q. What was that labour shortage due to?
16 A. Because active-duty policemen were leaving their jobs for the most
17 part; they didn't want to work.
18 Q. Do you know why they left?
19 A. Well, they were afraid that they would get killed during the war.
20 Q. Could you describe what kind of duty you did when you were on work
21 as a police officer.
22 A. Well, while I was on the police force we would have guard duty in
23 front of the SUP building. Then we would carry food, water, ammunition
24 for patrols, and so on and so forth.
25 Q. When you were on patrol, did you patrol in Suva Reka town?
1 A. Suva Reka and the surrounding villages of the municipality of
2 Suva Reka.
3 Q. While you were serving in Suva Reka town, were there any -- were
4 there any armed conflict there, meaning battles?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. In the town of Suva Reka or elsewhere in the municipality?
7 A. In the town itself and in the surrounding area.
8 Q. Where did the battle in Suva Reka town take place?
9 A. Well, from the SUP building it's on the road leading to Rastane,
10 so it's 3 kilometres away from Suva Reka.
11 Q. How far from the SUP building were the battles taking place?
12 A. 3 to 5 kilometres.
13 Q. So is it correct to say that there were no battles in the inner
14 city of Suva Reka, in the area of the post office and the municipal
15 building and in that area, the market?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Sorry, is it not correct to say that or is it that there were no
18 battles in that area?
19 A. No battles. No battles in the centre, that is.
20 Q. In what areas outside of Suva Reka did you go on patrol in 1998
21 and 1999?
22 A. The village of Movljane, Samodreza, Musutiste, and the surrounding
23 villages. I can't remember now.
24 Q. Were there any incidents of terrorist attacks on -- on people on
25 the roads outside Suva Reka?
1 A. I did not understand the question.
2 Q. Outside Suva Reka town itself, were there incidents where there
3 were terrorist attacks on people moving on the roads?
4 A. Yes, yes.
5 Q. And so when you -- and had the police set up check-points along
6 the roads to try to control that situation?
7 A. Yes, there were some check-points.
8 Q. And you mentioned earlier that you were supplying -- supplying
9 units outside Suva Reka town with food and other supplies. Were those the
10 kind of places that you would be going to with supplies?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. In 1998 or 1999, did -- was the police force in Suva Reka
13 reinforced by police forces coming from the outside?
14 A. Yes, yes. Reinforcements came from other towns in Serbia.
15 Q. Do you know what units came to your area?
16 A. Well, members of the police force came and of the army.
17 Q. Were they stationed in Suva Reka town or in other places?
18 A. Some were in town, and the rest were in the surrounding villages,
19 the villages surrounding Suva Reka.
20 Q. Thank you. I'll now ask you a bit about the SUP in Suva Reka.
21 Who was at the head of the SUP in Suva Reka?
22 A. At the head of the SUP of Suva Reka was Repanovic, Radojko, the
24 Q. Who was the commander of the police?
25 A. The commander of the police was Repanovic, Radojko.
1 Q. What was the name of his deputy?
2 A. Dragan Borisavljevic.
3 Q. Was there an officer called Vitosevic?
4 A. Vitosevic was the head of the SUP.
5 Q. At the SUP station, was there also some officers from the DB,
6 state security?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Could you tell us the names of those officers, if you know,
10 A. Misko Nisevic and Milan Jablanovic.
11 Q. Was there also an Albanian employed?
12 A. There was an Albanian, Iljaz. I cannot remember his last name
14 Q. Misko --
15 JUDGE BONOMY: So, Mr. Marcussen, do we have two heads or am I
16 misreading this? We've got Repanovic and we've got Vitosevic, or
18 MR. MARCUSSEN: Let's clarify that with the witness before I try
19 to assist.
20 Q. Vitosevic, how would you describe his functions?
21 A. Vitosevic was the head of the SUP, that is to say that he was in
22 charge of civilians who worked on identity papers, passports, traffic
23 licenses, registration of vehicles, and so on and so forth. And the
24 commander was just for the police, those who were in uniform, the
25 uniformed police.
1 Q. So is it correct to say that Vitosevic was the head of the entire
2 police station and Repanovic was the head of the police force as such?
3 A. Yes, that's right.
4 Q. Sir, you mentioned Misko Nisevic. Apart from --
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Did he also own a hotel in town?
7 A. Yes, he had a hotel.
8 Q. What was the name of that hotel?
9 A. The Boss Hotel.
10 Q. Thank you. I'd like to go into -- sorry, before I do that. What
11 was the name of your commander, your immediate superior in other words.
12 A. Nenad Jovanovic.
13 Q. I would like to now take you -- talk about an event -- some events
14 that occurred after the beginning of the NATO bombing. It is the 26th of
15 March. Do you remember that day?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Were you on work -- were you on duty that day?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Where were you in the morning?
20 A. In the morning five of us were out on the ground. We wanted to
21 take water, food, ammunition to the members of our police force who were
22 out in the field, that is to say ...
23 Q. Sir, you had been out in the field. Where had you been?
24 A. Djinovci. That was the name of the place, Djinovci.
25 Q. Thank you. Who were with you on that patrol?
1 A. Nenad Jovanovic, the assistant commander, then Radovan Tanovic,
2 Sladjan Cukaric, Miki Petkovic, and I.
3 Q. Approximately at what time did you come back from the patrol?
4 A. Well, approximately say after half an hour or an hour.
5 Q. What time of the day was it, morning, afternoon, noon?
6 A. Morning, morning.
7 Q. When you came back, did you see any police units that were not
8 normally in Suva Reka?
9 A. I didn't understand you.
10 Q. When you came back from your patrol, did you see anything in
11 particular outside the SUP?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. What was that?
14 A. Well, there were two trucks there that -- well, policemen were
15 getting out and these were armoured trucks. And policemen were walking
16 out of these trucks.
17 Q. And those trucks, were they normally stationed in -- in Suva Reka?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Do you know what unit those policemen were from?
20 A. I just know that Cegar was their code. I don't know.
21 Q. When you say "Cegar was their code," is that the way they were
22 referred to on the radio?
23 A. Yes, yes, yes, right.
24 Q. Do you know that the Cegar call sign from the officer who was
25 leading the policemen that you saw?
1 A. Cegar 1, Cegar Jedan.
2 Q. At the time did you know his name?
3 A. I can't remember now.
4 Q. Have you -- have you -- have you later learned his name?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. What is his name, please?
7 A. Mitrovic.
8 Q. Could you tell me how you learned his name was Mitrovic?
9 A. Through some colleagues who worked with him.
10 Q. Have you ever been shown a picture of him?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. When was that?
13 A. That was in 90 -- in 90 -- in 1997 -- no, sorry.
14 Q. Who showed the pictures to you? I'm not so interested in the
15 time, I'm sorry.
16 A. Well, the gentleman from the police, from the DB, I don't know.
17 Q. Were you asked to identify Cegar 1 from a series of photographs?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. How many photographs were there that you were shown when you were
20 asked to identify him?
21 A. There were five.
22 Q. And did you manage to identify him as one of the five?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And when you identified Cegar 1, is that when you were told his
1 A. No.
2 Q. Approximately how many police officers were with Cegar 1 on that
4 A. Well, there were about 40. There must have been 40.
5 Q. Were they wearing the same uniform as you were or were they
6 wearing a different uniform?
7 A. They had camouflage uniforms but military camouflage uniforms and
8 camouflage vests, military ones. And it said "police" on the
9 back, "policija."
10 Q. If you remember, what colour was the uniform itself?
11 A. Green.
12 Q. Thank you.
13 JUDGE BONOMY: Is that a convenient --
14 MR. MARCUSSEN: Yes.
15 JUDGE BONOMY: Is that a convenient time to interrupt you?
16 MR. MARCUSSEN: Thank you, Your Honour. Thank you.
17 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.
18 Now, sir, that -- we have to conclude the proceedings for this
19 evening, and you will require to return tomorrow to continue with your
20 evidence. We will resume at 9.00, so you will be here in time to continue
21 your evidence at 9.00.
22 Meanwhile, it is extremely important that you do not discuss any
23 part of your evidence with any person whatsoever. And by that I mean
24 either the evidence you've given already or the evidence you may yet give.
25 Discuss anything else you wish this evening, but absolutely forbidden is
1 any discussion of the evidence. You understand that?
2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, I understand.
3 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you. Now, please stay where you are just now
4 until we rise and leave the court and then arrangements will be made for
5 you also to leave the court, as they were made for you to come in.
6 And we'll resume tomorrow at 9.00.
7 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 5.31 p.m.,
8 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 26th day of
9 September, 2006, at 9.00 a.m.