1 Monday, 29 March 2010
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 [The Accused Praljak and Pusic not present]
5 [The witness entered court]
6 --- Upon commencing at 2.27 p.m.
7 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Registrar, can you call the
8 case, please.
9 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honours. Good afternoon,
10 everyone in and around the courtroom.
11 This is case number IT-04-74-T, the Prosecutor versus Prlic
12 et al. Thank you, Your Honours.
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Registrar.
14 First of all, I would like to apologise for having made everyone
15 wait, but we had technical problems. Therefore, we are starting with
16 approximately a 15-minute delay.
17 I would like to, first of all, greet Mr. Zvonko Vidovic, who will
18 take the affirmation in a few minutes. I would like to greet
19 Mr. Petkovic, Mr. Pusic, Mr. Stojic, Mr. Prlic, and Mr. Coric. I would
20 like to greet Ms. West, Mr. Scott, as well as their associates, Defence
21 counsel, and all the people assisting us.
22 Before I ask Mr. Vidovic to read the solemn declaration, I will
23 give the floor to the Registrar, who has two IC numbers to give us.
24 THE REGISTRAR: Thank you, Your Honour.
25 3D has submitted its response to the Prosecution's objections to
1 its documents tendered via Witness Milivoj Petkovic. This list shall be
2 given Exhibit IC01227. And 5D has also submitted its list of documents
3 tendered through Witness Pero Nikolic. This list shall be given
4 Exhibit IC01228.
5 Thank you, Your Honours.
6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Registrar.
7 Witness, are you able to give me your first name, last name, and
8 date of birth, please?
9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] My name is Vidovic. The 1st of
10 October, 1963, in Mostar.
11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] What is your current
13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I'm the director of a private
14 enterprise, a catering enterprise in Mostar.
15 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Can you give us your first name
16 again, please? It's not on the record.
17 THE WITNESS: [No interpretation]
18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Have you already testified
19 before a court of law on those events that unfolded in the former
21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I testified in the County Court in
23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Was it a case related to the
24 events that occurred in the former Yugoslavia
1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It was the trial against
2 Dzidic et al, having to do with the war in Mostar.
3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Please read the solemn
5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will
6 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
7 WITNESS: ZVONKO VIDOVIC
8 [The witness answered through interpreter]
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you. So you may sit
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just some information by way of
14 You will be testifying today, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday.
15 This is what has been scheduled. We are sitting this afternoon.
16 Tomorrow morning, we will be sitting in the morning. On Wednesday, we
17 will be sitting in the morning also. And on Thursday, we will be sitting
18 in the afternoon. That said, on Thursday afternoon we shall finish at
19 6.00 p.m.
20 You have just taken the affirmation, which means now that you are
21 a witness of the Court, which means that you may not have any contact
22 whatsoever with Mr. Coric's Defence team. In addition, you should not
23 discuss with anyone the contents of your testimony, and you must not
24 discuss this with the media either.
25 Please try and be accurate when you answer the questions that are
1 put to you. You will have to answer questions which Mr. Coric's Defence
2 counsel will put to you. She will show you a series of documents. The
3 other Defence counsel will intervene when the time comes to defend the
4 other accused. I believe the Prosecutor - this will be Ms. West - will
5 then cross-examine you. The three Judges sitting before you will also
6 put questions to you. Normally speaking, we are four, but Judge Mindua
7 is not here with us today because he is sitting in the Tolimir trial.
8 Sometimes some of the Judges attend two cases on the same day. That will
9 be my case tomorrow.
10 If there is something which you do not understand, please don't
11 hesitate to ask the person who has put the question to you to rephrase
12 it, even if it is a Judge.
13 This is what I wish to share with you to make sure that this
14 hearing unfolds smoothly.
15 I would like to greet Ms. Tomasegovic Tomic once more and give
16 her the floor.
17 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon,
18 Your Honours, and everybody else in the courtroom.
19 Examination by Ms. Tomasegovic Tomic:
20 Q. [Interpretation] Good afternoon to you, too, Mr. Vidovic. I'm
21 going to start off by asking you to speak up a little louder than when
22 you answered the first few questions so that the interpreters can hear
23 you. And the second thing I'm going to ask you is to speak slowly and
24 make pauses between my questions and your answers. That is to help the
25 interpreters, because all these proceedings are being interpreted into
1 two languages.
2 I'm going to read out a short biography, your CV, with respect to
3 your activities in the HVO. And when I've read it all out, I'm going to
4 ask you whether what I've read out is correct.
5 In 1992, you were a student at the Faculty of Law in Sarajevo
6 and you lived and worked in Mostar at the same time as a private
7 entrepreneur in the catering business.
8 At the beginning of the war, you became a member of the
9 3rd Battalion of the HVO of Mostar. You were wounded in July 1992, and
10 until October 1992, you were undergoing treatment. In October 1992, you
11 became an operative in the Crime Prevention Department of the Mostar
12 Police, and you remained in that post until the summer of 1993, when you
13 became the head of the Crime Department in the 5th Battalion of the
14 Military Police of Mostar. While you headed that department, you
15 underwent professional training at the Faculty of Crime Sciences in
17 At the beginning of November, 1993, you became the acting head of
18 department, of the Crime Military Police Department, in the Military
19 Police Administration. And in mid-December 1993, you left the military
20 police and continued working in the catering business.
21 Is everything I have read out correct?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. My questions, Mr. Vidovic, will focus, for the most part, on your
24 activity in the Crime Department in the Mostar section in 1993.
25 To start off with, tell us how the Crime Prevention Department of
1 the Military Police was organised in 1993.
2 A. In 1993, the Military Police Crime Department, which is the
3 department I worked in, was within the composition of the 3rd Battalion
4 of the Military Police in Mostar, and later on, after July, the
5 5th Battalion of the Military Police in Mostar. The military police
6 otherwise had five military police battalions. So in addition to the
7 1st, the other four had crime departments within them, under them.
8 Q. Tell us, please, these military police battalions, including your
9 department, did they cover an operative zone?
10 A. My job in the 3rd Battalion, and later on the 5th Military Police
11 Battalion, was in the South-East Herzegovina Operative Zone.
12 Q. Very well, thank you. Now, tell us, please -- from your CV, we
13 were able to see that you were first an operative in the
14 Crime Department. Can you tell us what that means? What does an
15 operative do?
16 A. As an operative in the Crime Department of the Military Police,
17 headquartered in Mostar, where I worked, my exclusive job was to uncover
18 crime in the area covered by the Crime Department that I worked for.
19 Q. We saw that you were head of department for a time, or sector, in
20 the Central Mostar area. So tell us what the head of the sector does.
21 What's his job?
22 A. The head of sector does similar or almost identical work like the
23 Crime Department operative, but with the added responsibility of
24 conducting analyses and following the work of the entire department,
25 which is made up of a number of operatives, until a criminal report is
2 Q. For a short time, you were the acting head of the
3 Crime Department in the Military Police Administration. So what does the
4 head of this department do?
5 A. The head of the Crime Department of the Military Police
6 Administration is the man co-ordinating all the crime departments and
7 involves analytical work. It is a post which dovetails and co-ordinates
8 all the work and analyses the work of all the departments in the various
10 Q. Tell us, please, the head of the Crime Department, does he give
11 you any guide-lines or professional advice and things like that?
12 A. As far as guide-lines and instructions, while I was working in
13 the Mostar department we did receive those from the head of the
14 Crime Department of the Military Police Administration. He would give us
15 all the professional assistance we needed, ranging from what the various
16 forms and documents looked like and anything else that we needed and that
17 was involved in our work.
18 Q. While you were an operative in the Crime Department of Mostar,
19 who was your immediate superior?
20 A. While I was working as an operative in the Central Mostar
21 Crime Department, my immediate superior was Josip Marcinko, and he was
22 the head of the Crime Department of Mostar.
23 Q. And who was the immediate superior to this gentleman,
24 Mr. Marcinko; who was his superior?
25 A. His immediate superior was the battalion commander to which we
1 belonged. And as I said a moment ago, I belonged, first of all, to the
2 3rd Battalion and then the 5th Battalion of the Military Police of
4 Q. What was the commander's name? The commander of the
5 3rd Battalion, what was his name?
6 A. The commander of the 3rd Military Police Battalion in Mostar --
7 well, we had a situation in which until sometime in mid-April, the
8 commander was Zeljko Dzidic, but after that he was replaced and
9 Zarko Juric came to replace him. Later on, instead of Zarko Juric, it
10 was Ivan Ancic, when the 3rd Battalion became the 5th Battalion under the
11 reorganisation system.
12 Q. Do you know which post Zeljko Dzidic occupied after he ceased to
13 be the 3rd Battalion commander, as you said, in mid-April sometime? Do
14 you know where he went afterwards, that is to say, from mid-April
16 A. I don't know that. All I do know is that from mid-April he was
17 suspended because of some problems he had with some soldiers from
18 Siroki Brijeg.
19 Q. Tell me, please, Mr. Vidovic, do you know who was the superior to
20 the commander of the 5th Battalion or 3rd Battalion? Who did he receive
21 his orders from for daily tasks and assignments to be undertaken by the
22 5th Battalion?
23 A. All the orders and assignments given to the 3rd Military Police
24 Battalion, which was later the 5th Military Police Battalion, all the
25 orders were received from the Operative Zone of South-East Herzegovina.
1 Q. Tell me, please, who did you receive daily orders from?
2 A. Well, we had a system of daily briefings in the military police
3 or the command of the -- or, rather, at the headquarters of the Military
4 Police Battalion, and our head of department would attend those
5 briefings. And then we would receive the daily orders that you're
6 referring to.
7 Q. How do you know that the 5th Battalion received orders from the
8 South-East Herzegovina Operative Zone?
9 A. After I was given the duty of being at the head of the Military
10 Police Crime Department for Mostar, I attended those daily briefings, and
11 we would all together be given assignments, our daily assignments from
12 the sphere of the Crime Police Department's remit.
13 Q. I asked you how do you know. Did you hear that at the briefings?
14 Was it at the briefings?
15 A. Yes. We would be given guide-lines at the briefings of the
16 operative zone, assignments as to what the Crime Police Department was
17 supposed to do.
18 Q. Can you explain what those orders were? What did they involve,
19 what did they look like? Did you go about your regular duties without
20 those orders as well during your daily work? So how was that different
21 to the orders you received?
22 A. Well, as far as those orders are concerned, yes, we did have our
23 daily responsibilities and duties as a department. But then you also had
24 orders which frequently involved us, as a department, for extraordinary
25 situations and extraordinary tasks and assignments, because the
1 commanders of the units who had problems with their soldiers would,
2 through the operative zone, hand down to us certain matters that we were
3 supposed to deal with within the crime department that we belonged to.
4 Q. Did you ever get an order to go to the front-line?
5 A. Yes. At a certain point in time when the security situation in
6 Mostar was complex - I believe it was in July 1993 - we'd received an
7 order for our department to provide a certain number of staff who would
8 go to the first line in Mostar on the Bulevar. We went to the so-called
9 Suma building, where we provided additional manpower to those on the
11 Q. From whom did you receive that order?
12 A. We received it from the Zone of Operations of South-East
14 Q. Tell me, Mr. Vidovic -- just a minute. Let me see where we
15 stand. To who did you report?
16 A. The system of work of our service was based on the practice that
17 at the end of working hours - we worked from 8.00 until 4.00 p.m., but
18 sometimes we stayed on until 9.00 p.m. - we submitted reports to the head
19 of our centre, and then we would -- and all these reports of ours would
20 be sent down. I'm saying "down" because we're one floor up. And these
21 would then go to the operative zone. These would be reports about
22 everything we had done on that day.
23 Q. Do you know whether the battalion sent its reports to the
24 Military Police Administration too?
25 A. The Military Police Battalion sent its reports to the Military
1 Police Administration, and later on they were also sent to the command of
2 the defence of the city of Mostar
3 Q. How do you know that the battalion forwarded your reports to the
4 zone of operations?
5 A. I know because I would find out in my subsequent work. I would
6 learn that the reports were, indeed, forwarded because I could see that
7 link in the individual criminal cases.
8 Q. How did you see that link? Did anyone contact you? Please
9 explain for everybody to understand. What kind of link was it?
10 A. As we worked with military personnel, we had constant contact
11 with the commanders of the units, and that can be seen in our reports,
12 where all this information flowed together and resulted in criminal
13 reports. If a certain soldier from a unit was dealt with in a report,
14 for example, it became clear.
15 Q. My questions so far have been about the organisation of work and
16 the mechanism of commanding in your sector. Do you know anything about
17 the organisation of the military police in general, the system of command
18 and control, et cetera?
19 A. I didn't really study the structure of the military police on the
20 whole. I knew the structure of the department to which I belonged, and I
21 stuck to the hierarchy in place; that is, the structure of the battalion
22 of which I was part.
23 Q. Does that mean that you have no knowledge about what I had asked
24 you about?
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. Please take a look at the second document in your binder. You
2 have two red binders, numbered binders. Take binder number 1, please.
3 The second document is P00588.
4 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Can you tell me what the
5 meaning of the Post-Its is? On some documents, you've written down some
6 figures with exhibit numbers, and on the other documents there's nothing
7 at all, or on the other Post-Its there's nothing at all. What does this
9 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, all
10 documents are marked, only some documents are very large, especially the
11 first one, so possibly that made you think that it isn't marked, that it
12 has no label.
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You haven't answered my
14 question. I would like to know whether all the documents have already
15 been admitted. If, on the other hand, some have not been admitted, I
16 would like you to flag these up for me.
17 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I will
18 mention every time which document has the status of exhibit, although the
19 lower -- rather, the left corner of the document indicates its status.
20 However, only the original documents have this mark of "EXH." There was
21 a chart included, though, which also indicates the status of the
22 document. But whenever I call up an individual document, I will mention
23 its status.
24 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I'm asking you this question
25 because, as you know, sometimes the Trial Chamber dismisses some
1 documents because they are not relevant. I feel that a counsel that has
2 been working on this case for four years, if the counsel is presenting
3 this document, that means that this document is relevant. I shall pay
4 particular attention to the documents that might not be relevant to check
5 whether there is a relevant association. If I don't say anything, that
6 means I feel that it is relevant.
7 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
8 Q. Sir, you told us a minute ago that it was your job to uncover
9 crimes, or, rather, the perpetrators. And now take a look at document
10 P00588, which is the Decree on the Armed Forces of the Croatian Community
11 of Herceg-Bosna, and Article 137 is of interest to us here. In the
12 English version, that's on page 0030-0164. This document has the status
13 of exhibit already. In the Croatian version, that's on the page marked
15 Mr. Vidovic, please focus on me. You don't have to search.
16 We'll take a look at the last paragraph of this article, which reads:
17 "The armed forces include military police who take charge of
18 security in military traffic, of military order and discipline, and the
19 elimination of criminal elements in the armed forces."
20 I suppose that this should have included criminal offences. Was
21 it, indeed, your job to deal with criminal offences? I'm referring to
22 the Crime Department of the Military Police.
23 A. It was the job of the Crime Department to uncover criminal
24 offences in the armed forces, but I must add something very important.
25 For the Crime Department of the Military Police to uncover a criminal
1 offence, we must first receive information about it. And pursuant to
2 that information, we could start working and file a criminal report.
3 Q. All right. In your work as an operative of the Crime Department,
4 which laws and regulations did you abide by?
5 A. The regulations that we abided by in our work, as operatives of
6 the military police, were the following: The Law on Criminal Procedure
7 and the Decree on District Military Courts.
8 Q. Tell us, did you need the entire Law on Criminal Procedure for
9 your work or did only a part of that law pertain to your work?
10 A. In our work, we only relied on the pre-criminal procedure. That
11 is the part that we needed in our work.
12 Q. Did you also use or abide by some material regulations that
13 qualified criminal offences?
14 A. We relied on the Penal Code of the former SFRY and the Penal Code
15 of Bosnia-Herzegovina.
16 Q. All right. Why did you rely on both these pieces of legislation?
17 A. For the simple reason that the Penal Code of the former SFRY
18 dealt with more severe crimes, such as war crimes or crimes involving
19 narcotics and the like, whereas the Penal Code of Bosnia-Herzegovina
20 dealt with all other criminal offences.
21 Q. Tell me, sir -- you told us that you relied on the Law on
22 Criminal Procedure and the Decree on District Military Courts. Please
23 take a look at the first document in your binder now, which is 4D01105.
24 In the English version, this is on page 42, and we were looking at
25 Article 151. This is the Law on Criminal Procedure which is an exhibit
1 in this trial. Let us take a look at paragraph 1 of Article 151. I'll
2 read it out slowly:
3 "If there are grounds to suspect that a criminal act that is
4 prosecuted ex officio has been committed, the law enforcement agencies
5 must take the steps necessary to locate the perpetrator of the criminal
6 act, to prevent the perpetrator or accomplice from hiding or fleeing, to
7 direct and preserve the traces of the criminal act and objects which
8 might serve as evidence, and to gather all information which might be of
9 use to effectively conduct criminal proceedings."
10 Tell us, Mr. Vidovic, did you apply this provision in your work?
11 Was this provision pertinent for your activity?
12 A. As we were in war or in a state of immediate threat of war, we
13 applied a provision of the Decree on District Military Courts, whereas
14 this provision you've just read out was implemented by the MUP.
15 Q. Now, please take a look at the third document in your binder,
16 which is P00592. This is the Decree on District Military Courts. It is
17 also an exhibit already. Please take a look at Article 6 which reads:
18 "District military courts shall try criminal acts committed by
19 military personnel and certain criminal acts committed by other persons
20 as determined in this decree."
21 Are you familiar with this provision, sir?
22 A. Yes. That's the very provision I was referring to a minute ago.
23 Q. To which persons does the Decree on District Military Courts
25 A. To military personnel, that is, soldiers of the HVO, of which I
1 was one.
2 Q. Now, please take a look at Article 25 of this same decree. In
3 the second paragraph of Article 25, we read:
4 "District military courts shall perform the duties and exercise
5 the authority as stated in the Law on Criminal Proceedings, of regular
6 courts of the first instance."
7 Could you tell us, please, who the authorised persons of the
8 organs of security of the armed forces were?
9 A. If we take a brigade to represent the armed forces, the
10 authorised person within the -- a brigade would have been the SIS of that
12 Q. Please take a look at Article 27 now. Before I read it out, let
13 me remind you that a short while ago we were looking at Article 151 of
14 the Law on Criminal Procedure, and you said that it applied to civilians
15 rather than military personnel and that the military police was --
16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [No interpretation]
17 [Interpretation] I'm going to ask my question again. Every time
18 I have an important question to ask, it never works. That's very
20 In any case, I'm still on Article 6. And I'm speaking to someone
21 with a legal background, so I'm sure you will understand my question.
22 This Article 6 is talking about military district courts. According to
23 the text, those district courts are competent for military staff, and
24 they will also try for criminal acts committed by other persons as
25 determined in this decree. So I will choose a very simple case, and
1 perhaps you can tell me who or which court would try in this case.
2 Let's assume that we have a group of individuals wearing military
3 uniforms, but we do not know to which unit they belong. This group of
4 individuals will commit a certain number of crimes, and to be more
5 precise, they will commit some rape. According to you, who would be in
6 charge of the investigation of the inquiry as well as of sentencing of
7 those individuals?
8 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I apologise,
9 but the witness has just received the wrong interpretation in his head
10 sets. He heard "if persons are military persons." All -- your question
11 stated "wearing military uniforms," and I think that was the essential
12 point of your question and it was interpreted wrongly.
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes. I'm asking the
14 interpreters to be very careful when translating my questions, which are
15 always very important. And they are of a legal nature, so if there is
16 the wrong interpretation, then, of course, we could come up with serious
18 So I would like to point out, Witness, that this group of
19 individuals wear military uniforms, but we do not know if they belong to
20 a military unit. So what I would like to know is whether they fall under
21 Article 6 of this document.
22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I'll give this answer to your
23 question. It will be a little longer answer.
24 While I was in the Military Police Crime Department in Mostar,
25 the concept of individuals wearing uniforms is very broad. So a person
1 wearing a uniform does not necessarily mean that they belong to a unit
2 and that they have a valid ID stating which unit that person belongs to.
3 Now, if it has been established that the person does, indeed, belong to a
4 unit, then, as a member of that unit, a criminal report is filed to the
5 competent Military Prosecutor's Office. If he is a civilian wearing a
6 uniform and has committed a crime which comes under the remit of the
7 corresponding military district court, then it is that court which is in
8 charge of conducting proceedings, if the crime is a serious crime like
9 the one that you mentioned.
10 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well, thank you.
11 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
12 Q. Witness, I don't know whether the interpretation was correct.
13 You said: "If, as a civilian, he committed a crime from the remit of the
14 court." Did you mean the acts listed under Article 7 of that same
16 A. Yes, precisely those acts.
17 Q. Thank you. Now, let's look at Article 27 of this decree. And
18 I'd like to remind you that when looking at the Law on Criminal
19 Procedure, Article 151 there, well, I'd like to remind you that we've
20 already seen that article and you said that this was applied to civilians
21 and that it was linked to the provision with respect to military persons,
22 and that in that case you applied Article 27, if it's applied to military
24 Now, we saw that the organ of internal affairs was duty-bound to
25 apprehend the perpetrator, secure the traces, and so on.
1 Now let's look at what Article 27 has to say, and I'm reading
2 para 1:
3 "The commander of a military unit and of a military institution
4 must take all necessary measures to prevent the perpetrator of a crime
5 under official prosecution from hiding or escaping, and must attempt to
6 preserve all the traces of the criminal act and all objects that may
7 serve as evidence. He must also obtain all information relevant to the
8 criminal proceedings."
9 Tell me now, please, when you said earlier on that you didn't
10 apply Article 151 and the Decree on Military District Courts, did you
11 have in mind this particular article?
12 A. I had Article 27 in mind of the Decree on Military District
13 Courts, where it is specifically stated that it is the commander of a
14 military unit who is duty-bound to take steps against a perpetrator,
15 which means that every commander of a military unit, from a platoon
16 upwards, is duty-bound to take all the necessary steps if one of his
17 soldiers commits a crime.
18 Q. When you mean "all necessary measures," you mean the measures set
19 out in this article; is that right?
20 A. Yes, precisely.
21 Q. Now, Article 151 that we looked at earlier on --
22 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just a second. I would like to
23 go back to Article 27. The second paragraph, I believe, is important,
25 When I look at this paragraph, it seems that the commander of a
1 military unit, let's say the brigade commander, when he hears of a crime,
2 he has to inform the district military prosecutor. Is that correct?
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] That's correct.
4 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Well, I'm asking you this
5 question, sir, because unfortunately General Praljak is not here.
6 General Praljak is boycotting this trial at the moment. But had he been
7 here, I would have asked the same question to you, but I'm sure his
8 counsel will put the question to him as well.
9 General Praljak, when he testified, he was in your seat, and I
10 put to him that as a commander of the HVO, when a military commander gets
11 to know of a crime, I was wondering what he should do. And I went into
12 details by asking him whether he was not duty-bound to inform the
13 prosecutor, and he had answered the following. I do not have the
14 transcript, but I can recollect what he said. He said that, As long as
15 the SIS or the military police is informed, then my role will stop there.
16 So what do you think?
17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I'll give a very
18 categoric answer and say that the consistent application of Article 27,
19 that is to say, that the commander of a military unit -- every commander
20 of a military unit is obliged to take steps when he learns of a crime,
21 and he is obliged to act according to Article 27, as is set out here.
22 Now, if we're dealing with combat units or the front-line, then he would
23 have to act in the same way as if it was a soldier of his who might have
24 been somewhere outside the combat zone. That is to say that upon
25 learning of a crime, he must secure the site, using two of his soldiers,
1 and undertake all the other necessary steps which come under his
2 authority, to secure the traces, prevent them being destroyed and so on.
3 If the perpetrator was known to him, then he could file a criminal report
4 straight away with the competent military prosecutor's office. If the
5 perpetrator or perpetrators were unknown, then he could have informed us
6 in the Crime Department so that we could then take the necessary steps to
7 apprehend the perpetrators, because there are a lot of professional
8 work -- there's a lot of professional work involved. But it was up to
9 the commander of a military unit to secure the site where the crime had
10 taken place and to take all the other necessary steps under Article 27.
11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Witness, you clarified the
12 situation. I would like to thank you.
13 You have just said, and it's important, if the unit commander
14 does not know the identity of the perpetrators, and that was one of the
15 cases put forward by General Praljak, and you just said it, in that case
16 he has to inform the Crime Department and he has to inform the military
17 police. Very well. But in case you do not do anything, let's assume
18 that you are not taking any steps, what should the military unit
19 commander do in that case?
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Hypothetically speaking and
21 hypothetically looking at this situation, then what we would do was to
22 file a criminal report against perpetrators unknown, as far as we are
23 concerned, if we'd been informed of a crime having taken place.
24 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And where would you file this
25 report, before which structure?
1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] To the District Military
2 Prosecutor's Office.
3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. My apologies for
4 asking basic questions to you, but the answers have to be in the
5 transcript. Thank you.
6 MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, one detail that I'd
7 like to focus on.
8 You quoted my client's position correctly, and the witness has
9 answered with the explanation given, but I'd just like to remind you that
10 those questions were asked of my client earlier on precisely with respect
11 to Article 27, and he was -- the article is lex specialis, regulating a
12 special situation; that is to say, when the perpetrator's caught
13 red-handed, in flagrante, so when the perpetrator is known. The moment a
14 crime took place, somebody knew that the crime had taken place and knew
15 who the perpetrator was, that's one procedure, and the witness said that.
16 The situation is different if the perpetrators are unknown. Then it's
17 not this article that applies, but other principles. So here we know
18 that a crime has -- or, rather, when we know that a crime has been
19 committed, but not the perpetrators, then the other organs come into
20 play. So as you are dealing with the crux of the matter, bear in mind
21 that Article 27 is lex specialis.
22 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I have
23 nothing against Mr. Kovacic giving us legal expertise, but I think that
24 the witness is here to answer that and not to have Defence counsel
25 interpret what something means, particularly not at this stage of the
2 Q. But, anyway, Witness, I'm going to ask you again. You said --
3 you uttered a sentence a moment ago to this effect: You said that if a
4 commander does not know who the perpetrator is, then he will call upon
5 you. Tell me now, if he does not know who the perpetrator is, does he
6 still have to undertake steps under Article 27, if the perpetrator is
7 unknown, that is to say, to secure the site of the crime and so on?
8 A. Yes. As soon as he learns of a crime being committed, regardless
9 of the perpetrators are known or unknown, it is his duty to apply
10 Article 27 and act upon it, that is to say, to use his soldiers to secure
11 the crime scene, to try and secure all the traces and any objects that
12 might be used in evidence, and carry out all the other steps which,
13 conditionally speaking, would help us in our job later on.
14 Q. Tell us now, in what way does he inform you -- does the commander
15 inform you of a crime and that he needs your assistance? How would he do
16 that, regardless of whether it's a crime for which he does not have the
17 professional capacity to deal with it or that they need to uncover the
18 perpetrator? Anyway, what is the manner in which he informs you? How
19 does he do that, how does he inform you of a crime?
20 A. All information about a crime is received by us from the
21 commander and from the military police battalion to which I belonged with
22 my crime department, and the battalion received it from the operative
23 zone that we were located in.
24 Q. Tell us, please, according to Article 27, was the commander
25 authorised to apprehend and arrest an individual that he considered was
1 the perpetrator of a crime?
2 A. He certainly did have the authority to arrest an individual
3 immediately if that individual had committed a crime.
4 Q. Now, would you look at paragraph 4 of that same article,
5 Article 27, which reads as follows:
6 "The military commander, as company commander, whose status is
7 equal to or higher than that of a commander of the company or an
8 authorised official person working for the internal affairs and the
9 security organs of the military police, may arrest a member of the
10 military in cases which have been determined by the Law on Criminal
11 Proceedings on detention."
12 Tell us, please, do you know whether this was the way things
14 A. Well, this military commander occupying the post stipulated under
15 Article 27 could arrest a suspect, just as a policeman from the Ministry
16 of the Interior could do, and just as an operative from SIS could do, and
17 just as a military policeman could do.
18 Q. We have just seen that you could have been informed about the
19 commitment of a crime by the commander, and you said that such
20 information is required for you to be able to work. But what were the
21 other ways for you to receive information about crimes committed? What
22 was it like in practice?
23 A. We got information from citizens directly. They came to our
24 department in Mostar frequently and reported various crimes to us, which
25 shows that they trusted us. And we were informed by the police station
1 or the Police Administration of Mostar; in other words, the MUP. We were
2 also informed by the permanent patrols of our battalion of the military
3 police which patrolled Mostar day and night, and also from the commanders
4 just mentioned, so we had various sources of various types of information
5 about crimes committed.
6 Q. When you learned of the commitment of a serious crime, what did
7 you have to do? Let's take murder as an example.
8 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just a second. Before we get
9 to this question, which is very interesting, I'm still on paragraph 4 of
10 Article 27. I'm going to use a case. I like cases or examples, because
11 through examples we can actually clarify some issues.
12 Let's take a hypothetical example. Let's assume that a brigade
13 commander learns that one of his men is going betray the unit by
14 deserting, and this could be a potential threat for the entire unit
15 because the brigade commander has enough reasons to think that this
16 soldier has joined enemy ranks. According to you, do you think that the
17 unit commander can arrest this soldier and disarm this very soldier?
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, he can arrest and disarm him.
19 As brigade commander, he has an assistant for the SIS and there is also
20 military police in the brigade. The example you mentioned has
21 repercussions on security. So the commander would contact his assistant
22 for SIS to conduct preliminary activities before arresting the soldier,
23 if indeed the soldier is planning on deserting.
24 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. Article 27 states
25 that in this case, the suspect has to be led within 12 hours -- or be
1 taken within 12 hours before an investigating judge of the District
2 Military Court
3 commander, or by someone from the SIS, or by someone from the military
4 police, does that mean that the suspect has to be taken before an
5 investigating judge of the District Military Court?
6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] We had a dead-line of 12 hours to
7 inform the investigating military judge on the reasons for detention.
8 The investigating military judge gave us permission, by an order of his,
9 for an additional 72 hours in case, and that's it.
10 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. Last question, and
11 please listen carefully. Let's have a case where we have arrested
12 someone who was about to betray a unit, but this person is not brought
13 before an investigating judge within 12 hours. According to you, in
14 which situation do we find ourselves?
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I cannot answer this question. I
16 believe I would have to speculate.
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.
18 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
19 Q. Tell us, Mr. Vidovic, now that the Judge asked you about these
20 12 hours and 72 hours, this applies to police detention while you are
21 conducting investigative measures; right?
22 A. Yes, that is when we conduct investigative measures in relation
23 to the suspect.
24 Q. In that period of time, if you conclude that you have no proof
25 that that person is, indeed, the perpetrator, or if the time-period
1 elapses without you establishing that he's a perpetrator, do you have to
2 release him?
3 A. Yes, that person is no longer interesting to us from the aspect
4 of the Crime Department of the Military Police.
5 Q. We were now speaking about police detention. Can the
6 investigating judge order a certain person to be detained? I'm now
7 speaking about placing someone in remand prison.
8 A. Yes, the investigating judge can do that.
9 Q. Even after the 72 hours have elapsed?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Do you remember what the longest time-period was, under the
12 Law on Criminal Procedure, for somebody to remain in remand in accordance
13 with the -- or pursuant to an order of the investigating judge?
14 A. I don't want to speculate. I don't know.
15 Q. I asked you a question, but you had no time to answer, so I'll go
16 back to it now. If you should have found out that a serious crime has
17 been committed, such as murder, what would you be duty-bound to do? Did
18 you have to inform anyone?
19 A. After receiving information about the crime of murder, we had to
20 inform the district military prosecutor immediately.
21 Q. In such cases, does the investigating judge participate? And if
22 so, how?
23 A. The investigating military judge takes part in the on-site
25 Q. Now we have heard what you were informed about and what you did
1 in case of a serious crime. So once you have information, what do you do
3 A. The Crime Department of the Military Police then takes all
4 necessary measures from our jurisdiction in order to carry out all
5 preparations that come before a criminal report.
6 Q. Can you be more specific or give us some examples of something
7 that you did?
8 A. So we collect all objects that can be used as evidence, the
9 traces of the commitment of the crime. We conduct interviews and make
10 official notes about them. We all take statements from persons
11 interviewed or persons who could provide useful information. And then we
12 use all that material for the drafting of a criminal report.
13 Q. Once a criminal report is drafted, to who do you submit it?
14 A. When a criminal report has been drafted, a person from our
15 department, who was in charge of drafting criminal reports, submits them
16 to the District Military Prosecutor's Office in Mostar.
17 Q. Once you submit that criminal report, you have found the
18 perpetrator and submitted the report to the Military Prosecutor's Office,
19 do you still have any obligations with regard to that case or is that
20 case completed from your point of view?
21 A. By submitting the criminal report to the Prosecutor's Office, our
22 job is done. But it happened very often that while working on another
23 case, we learn of some facts relevant for the other case, and we
24 submit -- we inform the Prosecutor's Office of that, too, as an addendum
25 to that previous criminal report.
1 Q. Can the public prosecutor request additional information from you
2 or ask you to conduct certain activities subsequently?
3 A. It happened very often that the public prosecutor requested some
4 additional activity from us, and we would certainly respond to those
5 requests whenever we could.
6 Q. Could the prosecutor request such information from other persons
7 as well, other services?
8 A. Since our service was poorly equipped, from the point of view of
9 technology, the prosecutor may have requested forensic assistance from
10 the MUP or assistance from military commanders to collect information
11 about the person in question, if that person was a member of a certain
12 military unit.
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I'm going to ask you a question
14 which may prove useful once we deliberate.
15 You just said someone prepares the report which is to be
16 forwarded to the military prosecutor, and then that's where your work
17 ends, unless additional information is provided, which you will then
18 forward to the military prosecutor. Fine. What I would like to know is
19 this: Please listen carefully. When the report is drafted for it to be
20 sent on to the military prosecutor, do you always ask for permission from
21 the military unit commander whom the soldiers belong to or don't you ask
22 him anything whatsoever; you simply forward the report to the military
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] If I understood you correctly,
25 Your Honour, you mean that I seek permission to submit a criminal report
1 to the Prosecutor's Office. If so, the answer is, no, I never did that.
2 We were autonomous in all matters with regard to the -- to criminal
3 reports. We were a sort of service of the public -- of the Military
4 Prosecutor's Office and all our criminal reports went to them. We never
5 applied to any military commander to allow us to submit our criminal
6 reports to the military prosecutor.
7 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Fine, thank you.
8 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
9 Q. When you collected information and established the identity of
10 the perpetrator of a crime, you know that the perpetrator is a soldier
11 and member of a certain unit, were you duty-bound to inform his
13 A. The daily reports that we drafted in our department at the end of
14 working hours, if they included the information that a criminal report
15 was filed against a soldier, it would be forwarded through the battalion
16 of the military police up to the zone of operations, and we would inform
17 the military commander of the fact that a criminal report was submitted.
18 Q. You mean the military commander of the unit whose member the
19 perpetrator was?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Once you complete that stage of the investigation, you do
22 everything necessary, but the identity of the perpetrator remains
23 unknown. What did you do in such cases?
24 A. Unknown perpetrators, or "NN" as they were designated, would not
25 be -- such cases would not be closed. We would never close NN cases. We
1 would always strive to find information that could lead us to the
2 perpetrator. After several months of work, doing something else
3 altogether, we would often stumble upon information that we needed in the
4 other case, and then we would file a criminal report.
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] We have fully understood which
6 procedures apply to NN, non-identified perpetrators, and you've described
7 to us in detail what happens when the perpetrator is identified. I shall
8 now put to you a question. It is a shame that General Praljak is not
9 here today. I hope that he will come back again soon.
10 General Praljak had told us this: Listen carefully. He told us
11 that, As a military commander, I hold a defence line facing the enemy.
12 If I hear that among the soldiers on this defence line there are some
13 that have committed offences, I shall not arrest them straight away,
14 because if I arrest them, I will then weaken my defence line and the
15 enemy can make a breakthrough in that case, which can prove disastrous
16 for my defence. Therefore, I keep the soldiers in the unit, even though
17 they have committed offences.
18 I'm summing up what he has told us. What do you think of this?
19 What do you think of this view, which has been given to us by the
20 number-one man in the HVO at the time he was in this position? He told
21 us that as far as he was concerned, there was no question of arresting
22 the soldiers who had committed offences, in light of the fact that this
23 would pose a threat on the defence line. What do you think of this
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't want to speculate at a
1 theoretical level. I'll just repeat what I said a short while ago.
2 Working for the Department of the Military Police and strictly
3 abiding by all the regulations, our task was to combat crime and find
4 perpetrators of crime. That's all I can say to what you have just
6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.
7 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
8 Q. I'd just like us to clarify something. Tell me, please, did you
9 file criminal reports about perpetrators unknown, NN?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Do I understand you correctly? You file a criminal report
12 against perpetrators unknown, and then you continue to investigate and do
13 your job. And if you uncover who the perpetrator was, then you make an
14 addition to the criminal report and add the person's name and surname and
15 so on?
16 A. Yes. We always kept the investigation alive and the case alive
17 until the perpetrators were uncovered. We would just add on and
18 supplement the criminal reports filed. The first criminal report filed
19 when we learned about a crime and sent to the military prosecutor, and
20 then we would update it with new information.
21 Q. Now I would like us to look at a separate set of documents which
22 relate to uncovering -- well, the accused have drawn my attention to the
23 time and that it might be a good idea to take the break. We did start
24 later, but we're getting signals from that part of the courtroom. So
25 before I move on, perhaps this would be a good moment.
1 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes, understandably so. These
2 hearings are very long. We shall have a break, a 20-minute break now.
3 --- Recess taken at 3.46 p.m.
4 --- On resuming at 4.08 p.m.
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The court is back in session.
6 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
7 Q. Before we look at the documents, tell us what the conditions were
8 in 1993 in Mostar, and how did they affect your work? What was the
9 situation like in the town of Mostar
11 A. Could you repeat the year?
12 Q. 1993.
13 A. In 1993, Mostar was a war zone. After the fighting stopped, the
14 fighting that took place in the summer of 1992, there was a sort of
15 interim situation which was neither war nor peace, and we tried to get
16 back to normal, get life back to normal, at the beginning of 1993. And
17 then in May 1993, in Mostar, the situation escalated and there was an
18 armed conflict between the BH Army and the HVO, which made it a war zone
20 There were a large number of refugees which had already come into
21 Mostar in 1992, after the Serb aggression against parts of Eastern
23 number of refugees, and they were put up in collective shelters and
24 accommodation, like the student hostels that used to exist before the
25 war. And there were large stores selling white goods and the like, and
1 they were transformed into places where the refugees could be put up.
2 Q. Can I interrupt you at this point? Perhaps we could speed up a
4 A. So in addition to these refugees put up in collective
5 accommodation, there were many flats that had been left empty during
6 1992, and these refugees took up residence there, which caused us a great
7 deal of problems in our work, in my line of work, because we had no
8 records about the people coming into Mostar and so on.
9 Q. Tell us what the situation was like with respect to the army.
10 Were there many soldiers, military units, around; were they stationed
11 there all the time or did they change locations; was there a lot of
12 coming and going to and from Mostar, that kind of thing?
13 A. As far as the military is concerned, and a moment ago we
14 mentioned the person who was a soldier only because he was wearing a
15 uniform, the whole town was full of people wearing uniforms. We had
16 different units coming into town and leaving a few days later. The
17 army -- the soldiers were put up in barracks outside town, but also in
18 the town proper. So as far as the army was concerned, the town was full
19 of soldiers.
20 Q. Tell us, please, was it only members of the military units who
21 wore uniforms?
22 A. Well, everybody or almost everybody was wearing a uniform, some
23 because they were members of a unit, others as camouflage, portraying
24 themselves as being members of units. So the vast majority of people in
25 town were wearing uniforms.
1 Q. And what was the situation like with respect to electricity, the
2 public lighting system and so on?
3 A. In 1992, during the war and the war operations, we were left
4 without any electricity in [indiscernible], so throughout the war there
5 was no street lighting. Flats would have electricity for a short while.
6 It would come and go. So the situation was rather chaotic with respect
7 to electricity and lighting.
8 JUDGE TRECHSEL: A very short question, Witness, regarding the
9 previous answer.
10 You said almost everyone wore uniforms. Is that a gender-neutral
11 answer? Does that include men and women?
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I meant men mostly, although not
13 infrequently you could see women wearing uniforms too.
14 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Thank you.
15 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
16 Q. Tell us, please, how were you technically equipped, you in the
17 Crime Department?
18 A. Since the Crime Department was being formed - well, it started to
19 be formed in 1992, sometime in October, when I arrived, it was in its
20 inception - it was poorly equipped, and that applied to almost the whole
21 of 1993, which meant that we did not have the necessary manpower or
22 equipment to be able to do the job properly, so that we had to rely on
23 people from the Ministry of the Interior very often who did have some
24 equipment surviving from peace time. We were poorly equipped. We did
25 not have enough cars, or equipment, or professionals, so, generally
1 speaking, the service was poorly equipped.
2 Q. Tell us, please, did you have any forensic experts, pathologists,
3 ballistics experts and the like?
4 A. No, we didn't. We would go to the Ministry of the Interior for
5 forensic services. And as for ballistics, our department at a point in
6 time had very good co-operation with the ballistics experts from the
7 Republic of Croatia
8 who was a ballistic expert, and we would send them our samples for
9 expertise. But this process was a lengthy one. It would last four or
10 five months and even as long as a year, because Croatia was also at war
11 at that time and it was only from them that we could receive ballistic
13 Q. Now, court pathologists, people trained to conduct post-mortems.
14 Did you have that?
15 A. No. We also had to rely on Split
16 Q. Very well. Now let's take a brief look at the documents. Some
17 of the documents that I'm going to show you are ones you've already seen
18 during the proofing session. They're not from your operative zone, but
19 I'm going to show them, nonetheless, because they are typical documents
20 and you'll be able to tell us whether that was the type of document that
21 you were familiar with.
22 So let's look at the first one, which is P01405. It's not an
23 exhibit yet. Can you tell us what kind of document this is? What is it?
24 A. This is a document which the 4th Battalion of the Military Police
25 from Vitez compiled it, compiled a criminal report, sending it on to the
1 military prosecutor in Travnik. So this, then, is a document which
2 clearly shows how the Crime Department of the Military Police functioned.
3 Q. We see here, after where it says "Criminal Report," then it says
4 "against" and "because," and then it says that it is the crime of murder,
5 that this concerns the crime of murder. And we can see that it was --
6 the crime was committed against Esad Salkic, the plaintiff. Now, what
7 ethnicity was this person?
8 A. Esad Salkic was a Bosniak, a Muslim.
9 Q. Now take a look at the next document, which is P01503. It's
10 already an exhibit. It is from the Military Prosecutor's Office in
11 Travnik, District Military Prosecutor's Office in Travnik. What is this?
12 A. It's a request to conduct an investigation. It's a continuation
13 of something, and that is to say that something is a criminal report that
14 was previously filed.
15 Q. It says there are grounds to suspect that on such and such a day,
16 due to an ethnic clash, Elezovic, Nermin, was killed, as was Sekovic,
17 Jasmin. Now, these two persons, on the basis of their names, looking at
18 their names, can you tell us what ethnicity they were?
19 A. They were Bosniak Muslims.
20 Q. Let's move on to the next document, which is P03513. It's still
21 not an exhibit. It's a daily report for the 16th of July, 1993
22 1st Company of the 1st Military Police Battalion of Mostar. And under
23 the heading "Street Patrol Service," it says:
24 "In the morning hours, a civilian policeman, Marin Vidovic
25 arrived with a report linked to -- concerning two girls who were
1 kidnapped the previous day in the street. After having being kidnapped,
2 they were raped, mistreated, and then they were threatened not to say
3 anything to anyone about it or else they would be killed. The
4 above-mentioned civilian policemen told us the name of one of the
5 perpetrators, and that was Mario Pazin. And since we were also informed
6 that the perpetrators had the insignia 'VP,' we made a check in order to
7 find out whether that man is a member of our company, and we found that
8 he was a member of our unit."
9 And it goes on to say that:
10 "After this perpetrator was apprehended, the other perpetrators
11 of this sordid crime were also apprehended."
12 And then we see their names. I don't have to read them.
13 Tell me, are you familiar with this event? Did you know about
14 it, do you remember it?
15 A. I do remember. I was directly involved in the work of this
16 criminal report that was filed, four members of the military police, and
17 a criminal report was filed against these four members. They were
18 convicted of the crime, and they were thrown out of the military police
19 as well.
20 Q. Tell us, do you happen to remember -- since two girls are
21 mentioned here, do you remember what their ethnicity was?
22 A. I think they were Bosniak.
23 Q. Following on from what you've just said, you've looked at the
24 documents, they all refer to the same case, so shall we go through them
25 just briefly, and then you can tell me whether you remember the documents
1 and what they were about.
2 The first document that we're going to look at is P03483, and
3 it's the record of an interview of Jadranko Ebrun [phoen], or
4 Jadranka Ebrun. The following document is P03508. It's a report from
5 your department, relating to the same incident. Then we come to a record
6 of an interview, which is P03482, and we see that it is an interview of
7 Mario Pazin, one of the perpetrators mentioned previously. And then we
8 come to P03497, which is a form for prisoners' escort, with the names of
9 the perpetrators. And, finally, number P03523, we have a criminal report
10 from your department.
11 Are you going to say -- tell us whether all these documents which
12 we've looked through are ones that you are familiar with? And if so,
13 what do they show?
14 A. Very briefly, these documents and the sequence they are placed in
15 show the way in which the service functioned, the service that I worked
16 in. And we see in this document exactly what the order of our work is,
17 regardless of whether it had to do with military policemen or any other
18 soldiers of the HVO.
19 I just wish to note that at the moment when we arrest these
20 soldiers, they were working on the security detail of the president or
21 something like that. However, they were military policemen and they were
22 arrested, and criminal charges were brought against them, as we saw in
23 the last document.
24 Q. Do you recall whether they were convicted?
25 A. Yes, they were. I remember that.
1 Q. Could you please look at P03571. That's the next document. The
2 first page is an authorisation, and the second page is a request. And on
3 the third page, we see the photographs of these persons. It has to do
4 with their eviction from the military police. You already mentioned
5 that. Do you remember, were they thrown out of the military police?
6 A. Yes, they were. They were no longer military policemen.
7 Q. Could you please look at the next document now, P04143. This is
8 a criminal report. We see that it is filed against unidentified
9 perpetrators. You explained the procedure to us previously.
10 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just a second.
11 Before we look at the next document, I went through all the
12 documents, like you did, and indeed you said that the four individuals
13 were sentenced. We had already heard of that. We realised that they
14 were members of the security team of Mr. Prlic, so they were in charge of
15 Mr. Prlic's security.
16 When you did your job, were you not prevented from doing your
17 job, as part of the Crime Department, regardless of the position of those
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, we did not have any
20 obstacles in our path, because it had to do with some kind of security.
21 For us, they were military policemen. You will see the sequence of these
22 dates, how these things developed, that this was done in a very short
23 period of time. The matter had to be dealt with urgently, and that's how
24 we treated it. Again, I say that we filed a criminal report, and in this
25 way we concluded our work in the best possible way.
1 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And as far as you can
2 recollect, what sort of sentence was handed down for these four
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I cannot answer that question. I
5 really don't know what kind of prison sentence they were sentenced to,
6 but I do know that they were sentenced.
7 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
8 Q. We are looking at document P04143. This is a criminal report
9 that has to do -- actually, this is already an exhibit. I am bringing it
10 up because we see, first of all, that it's against NN, unknown
11 perpetrators, and we see there are nine individuals who are injured
12 parties. And we see it's the village of Mokronoge
14 Tell me, please, on the names of these individuals, can you tell
15 me what their ethnic background is?
16 A. All of them are Bosniak Muslims by ethnicity.
17 Q. Could you please tell me whether you had heard of this case?
18 A. I had heard of this case. At first, it was dealt with by the
19 Crime Department of the Military Police of Tomislavgrad, and a report was
20 filed against perpetrators unknown. And later on, I also participated in
21 dealing with this criminal report because we actually did receive some
22 knowledge about the perpetrators.
23 Q. Tell me, once you received this knowledge, was the perpetrator's
24 name included in the report, and do you know what ultimately happened?
25 A. His name was inserted, Ivan Bakovic, nicknamed Ruda. I think
1 that he is still serving his sentence. For a while, he was a fugitive,
2 or, rather, he was a member of the 2nd Guards Brigade of the Croatian
3 Army. After this crime, he sought shelter in Croatia, but he was later
4 found there and arrested.
5 Q. Do you know what he did in Livno as a member of the 2nd Guards
7 A. Judging by his last name, I think that he originally came from
8 that area. He may have been there on leave or something like that.
9 Q. Could you please look at the next document, P06727.
10 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just a second.
11 Before we move on to the next document, I was looking at the
12 description of the crime, and when I was a prosecutor, had I seen what
13 happened here, I would have jumped on my seat, because when investigators
14 arrive it says that UNPROFOR had moved the dead bodies. Do you remember
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I did not directly participate in
17 that because I had worked in Mostar throughout. Livno is a different
18 operations zone. It's quite simply a different zone. I just got
19 involved when the identity was made known, and then I was engaged in the
20 search for Mr. Bakovic. However, I cannot tell you about these details
21 because I did not take part in that segment of the investigation.
22 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. And as far as you
23 know, did UNPROFOR intervene in the investigations that you would carry
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I am not aware of any such cases.
1 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.
2 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
3 Q. Now we are looking at document P06727. This is a criminal report
4 from your department against a person by the name of Miroslav Kolobara.
5 It is the name that matters. This report pertains to some of the
6 problems that he created in the war hospital in Mostar. Do you remember
7 this particular incident?
8 A. I remember this incident, but by then I was already in Ljubusko
9 and this matter was dealt with by Mostar. I do remember the incident,
11 Q. Could you please look at the next document. That is 5D04168.
12 Previously, when explaining the principle according to which you
13 worked, you said that once you filed the report, and if you gained any
14 additional knowledge, then you would -- then you would inform the
15 Prosecutor's Office about that. 5D04169. We saw Miroslav Kolobara.
16 Again, here we see "Miro Kolobara." Can you tell us what this is all
17 about? Can you --
18 A. It is precisely the addendum to the criminal report that was
19 signed by Zeljko Covic, the then head of department. It was sent to the
20 District Military Prosecutor's Office, so it had to do with some new
21 knowledge that was acquired in the meantime.
22 Q. Could you please look at 5D04168 now. It has to do with the same
23 person, Miro Kolobara. However, now there is another person involved,
24 another perpetrator.
25 In the first document, we saw that it was a criminal report that
1 pertained to some trouble at the hospital, and then we saw the addendum
2 where there's a reference to Kemal Selimovic and Miro Kolobara, and now
3 we see this request for carrying out an investigation against two
4 persons, Miro Kolobara and Kemal Selimovic. And it says here, in the
5 further text, because there are reasonable grounds to suspect that such
6 and such had happened, he entered Drago Mijatovic's apartment, from which
7 he brought out three men and a woman and a girl, all of Serbian
8 ethnicity, allegedly. The accused then drove these individuals to the
9 separation line near Staklena Banka and took them over to the left bank
10 of the Neretva river.
11 Tell me -- this is a request for carrying out an investigation.
12 Can you give us your comments in this regard?
13 A. My only comment is that once we completed our work, the Military
14 Prosecutor's Office did whatever was within the scope of their work.
15 They carry out their assignments.
16 Q. Tell me, the person mentioned under number 2, Kemal Selimovic, it
17 says here that he is a member of the HVO. And it says he's the son of
18 Husein and his mother's name is Rabija. Can you tell us what his
19 ethnicity was, judging by his name and surname?
20 A. He is a Bosniak Muslim.
21 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Could we please look at
22 the next document --
23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just a second.
24 Witness, I was busy reading this document. Miro Kolobara is a
25 member of the Convicts Battalion. This might be of importance. As for
1 the second individual, Kemal Selimovic, son of Husein, would he not be a
2 Bosnian Muslim?
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Would you please repeat your
4 question? I didn't quite understand it. Kemal Selimovic?
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] It says "son of Husein." Is he
6 a Croat or a Muslim?
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] He's a Muslim, as I've already
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. So he is a Muslim.
10 So they break into an apartment, and they are three residents of
11 Serbian nationality. And if I understand correctly, this apartment is in
12 West Mostar. Isn't it?
13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Bijeli Brijeg 29 is in the west
14 part of Mostar.
15 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. And apparently
16 those two individuals, who are members of the HVO and of the
17 Convicts Battalion, those two individuals, they were saying, Bring those
18 three people towards East Mostar, if I understand correctly. And then
19 the military police has decided to launch an investigation on them and is
20 going to arrest them; and the crime is committed in August 1993.
21 So, Witness, as far as you know, was there in West Mostar a plan
22 aimed at sending away Muslim or Serbian people to take them to East
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The only answer I can give is that
25 this is an isolated case. I had never heard of any kind of plan akin to
1 the one that you're talking about.
2 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. So as far as you're
3 concerned, it's an isolated case?
4 THE WITNESS: [No interpretation]
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And you have not heard of any
6 other case of the sort?
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I know of other cases as well.
8 However, as for the Kolobara/Selimovic case, I thought that that was an
9 isolated case. That's what I meant. It wasn't part of a broader plan,
10 as you had asked.
11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. As far as you can
12 recollect, Miro Kolobara, who, I believe, must have been heard by the
13 investigators, what did he say exactly? Was he carrying out orders that
14 had been given by his commander or did he say that he committed this
15 crime for personal reasons?
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't know what he said. I
17 wouldn't want to guess now. But I actually believe that it is a question
18 of personal motives.
19 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] It is unfortunate that we
20 didn't get the audition of Kolobara because we may get some additional
22 MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] [Previous translation continues]
23 ... good thing to correct the transcript straight away. In line 19 - we
24 still have it on our screen - your question that starts with:
25 [In English] "And you have not heard of any other case of the
1 sort ..."
2 [Interpretation] What follows is actually the witness's answer,
3 but it hasn't been separated that way in the transcript. So perhaps we
4 should correct it now.
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes, of course, you're very
7 Very well, please proceed.
8 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
9 Q. Lest there be any misunderstanding, when you said that this was
10 an isolated case, did you mean that such actions were not planned or
12 A. Yes, such actions were not organised or planned. These are
13 things that were committed by individuals, and we, in the department that
14 I worked in, fought against that throughout.
15 Q. During your work, did you deal with cases that involved evictions
16 from apartments, forcible evictions, mistreatments? Did you come across
17 such cases in your work?
18 A. We did have such cases. Citizens turned to us, they turned to
19 our department every day. Citizens who faced such problems came and
20 reported such matters to the military police. There was no obstacle in
21 their path. They reported mistreatments and attempts to evict them from
22 their apartment.
23 Q. When you would receive such information from citizens, what would
24 you do?
25 A. We would do whatever was necessary in order to find the
1 perpetrator and to file criminal charges against the perpetrator.
2 Q. Could we please look at the next document now, P09465. This is a
3 document from criminal records, and we see here the name of the
4 perpetrator, Vedran Bijuk, also known as Splico, nicknamed Splico.
5 First tell us, have you ever heard of this person and this last
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. How come you know about this person?
9 A. I know of the name of this person from the time when I worked in
10 the Crime Department of the Military Police, because he was one of the
11 persons who had been the subject of many criminal reports in the town of
13 Q. Criminal reports, what did you mean?
14 A. I meant that he committed many crimes in Mostar.
15 Q. It says here that he did something on the 30th of June, 1993
16 Let us look at the next document now, PD04199 [as interpreted].
17 5D04199. You can see the document in front of you, and you had a chance
18 to review them all. What kind of document is this?
19 A. This is a document of the Mostar Police Administration, the
20 Inner Control Department. And an official note of the personnel of that
21 police administration was made about the examination of the bodies of
22 civilians which was conducted on the 1st of July, 1993, and they were
23 autopsied in the old laboratory of the Bijeli Brijeg Wartime Hospital
24 Q. Please look at the name under 2, "Menira Becirovic," and
25 Avenija 35A in Mostar is mentioned as her address. And take a look at
1 the following document now.
2 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Excuse me.
3 Witness, I still have a question regarding the previous document,
4 5D04199. I see as a -- at the letterhead, at least in the translation,
5 that it mentions the Department of the Interior, which would be MUP, if
6 I'm not wrong, and then the Mostar Police Administration. Now, can you
7 explain this? As far as we have heard, unless I'm totally wrong, the --
8 oh, it's Mostar Police. I'm sorry. I saw the "M" and I read "Military,"
9 so the problem falls away. But this is not a document of the military
10 police; is it right?
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, this is a document of the
12 civilian MUP. That is, the Mostar Police Administration had, within its
13 jurisdiction, the Department of the Interior, although there was also the
14 Mostar Police Station, but this was done by the staff of the Mostar
15 Police Administration. That's the civilian MUP.
16 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Thank you.
17 I'm sorry, Ms. Tomasegovic Tomic, for losing time, but this goes
18 a bit fast. One tries to look to know.
19 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
20 Q. Tell me, sir, did you co-operate with the civilian police and the
21 SIS in the uncovering of the perpetrators of crime?
22 A. As I've already said it, we had constant co-operation with the
23 civilian police, partly because we had a shortage of some equipment, and
24 it is also impossible to go about our work without co-operating with the
25 civilian police. The Mostar Police Administration gave us access to some
1 documents. Namely, there were two staff of ours who went to the civilian
2 police daily to find us some personal information about some people who
3 were important to us.
4 Q. Please take a look at document P3118. If you remember the name
5 of Menira Becirovic from the previous document and the address of
6 Avenija 35A, this is a document of the security Sector, dated the
7 2nd of July, 1993. It's called "Information." We see that Goran and
8 Dragan Becirovic are mentioned as the source of this information, and we
9 continue to read:
10 "The information is about their removal from the flat, attempted
11 murder of the twins, murder of their mother and their elder brother,
13 We can see that this was handed to the Military Police
14 Administration, Mostar, on the 28th of July. Did you receive this
15 information as it is stated in the document?
16 A. Yes, we did.
17 Q. Was this the way how SIS -- the SIS co-operated with you?
18 A. This was a very complex case. We probably requested additional
19 information from them. I read the date, the 2nd of July, which was only
20 a day or two after the on-site investigation and those bodies in the
21 wartime hospital. We requested information from them, and they gave it
22 to us. We probably requested it for us to be able to continue working.
23 Q. We can skip one document and continue with 5D04207. Can you tell
24 us what kind of document this is? Do read it.
25 A. This is a document in which Zeljko Covic, one of our officials,
1 drafted an official note about the interview with Vedran Bijuk, also
2 known as Splico.
3 Q. Do you remember that this individual, Vedran Bijuk, was processed
4 in your department?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Let us look at the following document, P04139. What kind of
7 document is this?
8 A. As we had information about Vedran Bijuk, aka Splico, as the
9 perpetrator of numerous crimes, Damir Cipra, one of our staff, here made
10 an official note about an interview conducted with him about the
11 circumstances, because he often figured in reports made by citizens,
12 mentioning a man with a strong Dalmatian accent as perpetrating crimes in
14 Q. Now, please look at document 5D04201. Tell us, what kind of
15 document is this?
16 A. We were well advanced in the case of Vedran Bijuk here.
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Before we move to this
18 document, I would like to go back to the previous document.
19 It seems that this person, known as Splico, was involved in
20 breaking into at least 80 apartments, and we are in July, unless I'm
21 mistaken. Yes, I think it's July. So my question is the following,
22 Witness. The Prosecution's case is the following: It says that the HVO
23 took possession of apartments occupied by Muslims, and those people were
24 evicted, and sometimes they were arrested and detained. We saw some
25 evidence going along those lines; namely, that those flats were occupied
1 in such a way. Now we see a document stating that this person was
2 involved in 80 illegal occupation of apartments.
3 As far as you knew at the time, was there an over-arching plan
4 aiming at taking possession of apartments for the benefit of Croats or
5 was there no such plan? What is your own position on this?
6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] My position is the same as a short
7 while ago. I maintain that there was no such plan. And the document to
8 which you are referring shows that there were the same persons involved
9 over and over again, so there were groups of people who, in these wartime
10 conditions, committed a huge number of crimes, and we combatted crime.
11 But I don't want to speculate about plans -- any plans of this sort, nor
12 do I know about their existence.
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Did you know that the military
14 police based in Mostar requisitioned apartments to host military
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I didn't have any knowledge of
18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The soldiers that you knew,
19 that were under your command, did they all already have apartments?
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In my department, I believe that
21 everybody had their own apartments already or they had lived with their
22 parents until the war, like me. I lived with my parents until the war.
23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. What about you;
24 where did you live?
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] You mean during the war or before
1 the war?
2 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes, during the war.
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] During the war, I stayed at a
4 family house which is in the part of town known as Rondo, and
5 occasionally I went to the apartment of my then girlfriend, who's now my
6 wife, and her parents were refugees in Italy. I occasionally went to
7 that apartment and slept there. It was near the market-place.
8 Throughout the war, it was otherwise empty.
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. And as for the
10 apartment in the part known as Rondo, was that your own apartment or was
11 that an apartment that had been seized?
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] That's the apartment of my parents,
13 where I was born and had spent my entire life until then, on the first
14 floor of their family house, and my mother and brother still live there.
15 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. Please proceed.
16 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
17 Q. Let us now look at this document, 5D04201. Can you tell us what
18 kind of document this is? Read it through to remind yourself.
19 A. As I tried to explain a minute ago, we had already made
20 considerable headway in the case of Vedran Bijuk, also known as Splico,
21 and we issue a detention order to our military police battalion to detain
22 one Drazan Stojkic, because in the investigation against Splico we also
23 learned that these people were stealing large quantities of stolen
24 technical goods. There was information about a flat containing those
1 Q. And what do you do when you suspect an apartment serving as a
2 storage facility for stolen goods?
3 A. We use it as evidence for a crime.
4 Q. And what do you have to do?
5 A. We have to issue a receipt about objects seized.
6 Q. And how do you get into the apartment?
7 A. We need a search warrant. We take the goods, and we issue a
8 receipt about the seizure of these goods, which is one of -- which is
9 also a piece of evidence that are submitted together with the criminal
11 Q. Take a look at the following document, which is 5D04209. This is
12 another official note about an interview with the same person,
13 Vedran Bijuk, aka Splico. It says that the interview took place on the
14 premise of the SVIZ.
15 Do you remember that Vedran Bijuk was really in remand prison,
16 and where was that?
17 A. This is an official note which is made on the 14th of August on
18 our premises. The official who conducted the interview is Zeljko Covic.
19 Q. Mr. Vidovic, read what it says. It doesn't say it was made in
20 your department.
21 A. Oh, yes, right. Our department worked on the premises of the
22 Central Military Remand Prison of Heliodrom, and that's where our
23 official conducted the interview with him.
24 Q. When you say, Our department worked there, you mean that your
25 department was put up at the Heliodrom or that the interview took place
1 there? What exactly did you mean?
2 A. Let me briefly clarify for my subsequent evidence. The
3 department or, rather, the sector to which I belonged had its official
4 premises on the first floor of the Faculty of Mechanical Engineering in
5 Mostar. That's where we stayed throughout my stay in Mostar and
6 throughout the time I worked for that department. Since there are no
7 detention facilities there, when there was a reason for us to go to the
8 Heliodrom, as here, to draft an official note and speak to an accused,
9 then we go to Heliodrom. Nowadays, in normal conditions, it's about --
10 it's a 10 minutes' drive away from down-town Mostar; but at that time, as
11 there were combat activities, we had to make a large detour and drive for
12 about 40 minutes from down-town Mostar to Heliodrom one way. That's how
13 we proceeded every time we went there, and it was made the same way every
14 time we went to Heliodrom. Then we returned to the premises of our
15 sector. Then we type up the official note, and our driver or somebody
16 goes to Heliodrom on the following day to enable the one who gave the
17 interview the opportunity to sign it.
18 At Heliodrom, we had two offices on the first floor and one
19 office on the ground floor. These are very small offices, two-by-two
20 metres with a desk and two chairs only, and that's where the persons were
21 brought who we wanted to process on that day. After the interview, we
22 would return them to the Security Platoon of the Military Police who were
23 stationed at Heliodrom. This is just by means of clarification.
24 Q. But something is still unclear, so I will ask you a very clear
25 question, and please answer very briefly.
1 When either police detention is imposed because of the commitment
2 of a crime or an investigating judge placed that person in remand prison,
3 where is that person physically put up?
4 A. It's at Heliodrom, the Central Military Remand Prison of
6 Q. Now it is very clear. We can skip one document.
7 Now look at document 5D04210 --
8 THE INTERPRETER: 4202, interpreter's correction.
9 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
10 Q. 4202. What kind of document is this, because your signature is
12 A. This is a search warrant to be conducted in the apartment of
13 Drazan Stojkic. He's the one connected to Splico. And it says that they
14 suspect that stolen technical goods have been stored in his apartment.
15 And the date is the 14th of August.
16 Q. Is it a document that you must have if you're to search a
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Now let's move on to the next document, which is 5D04203.
20 JUDGE TRECHSEL: A very small technical point.
21 I think the last document, at least the one I have, was 4201 and
22 not 4202.
23 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I see that
24 there was an interpreter's correction on a line there. It was 5D04202.
25 That was the document number. And that's what's on the screen, the
1 interpreter's correction, "4202."
2 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Thank you. You skipped a couple of them, then.
3 Thank you.
4 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Yes, I did, because I
5 have to save time, Your Honour. So if there's repetition, I tend to skip
7 Q. Now let's look at the next document, which is 5D04203. What
8 document is this?
9 A. This is from our Crime Prevention Department. It's a receipt for
10 temporarily confiscated items. And if we look at it more carefully, they
11 are technical goods; a television set, a video-recorder, and so on.
12 Q. Can you tell us whether it's the same technical goods that
13 Vedran, Splico, was suspected as having stolen?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Just slow down when you're giving long answers, please.
16 It says "Citizen" at the bottom in the lower left-hand corner,
17 and then "Authorised Official" on the right-hand side. Is this a
18 document that a person whose goods have been confiscated has to sign?
19 A. Yes. Every document of this type needed to be signed.
20 Q. Let's go on to the next document now, please, which is 5D04200.
21 And tell us what it is.
22 A. This is an official note from our department, compiled by one of
23 our workers, Goran Palameta. And we can see that after the confiscated
24 goods and the report about that, we make up a list of the items remaining
25 on the premises, and the key is deposited at the department.
1 Q. Now, I'm going to skip two documents and move on to 5D04194.
2 Tell us, Mr. Vidovic -- this is already an exhibit, but we see that it is
3 a request to open an investigation. However, unfortunately, we weren't
4 able to find the crime report filed preceding this document. But do you
5 remember whether your department did, in fact, file a criminal report
6 about this?
7 A. Yes, I do remember that a criminal report was filed against
8 Vedran Bijuk, also known as Splico.
9 Q. All right. Let's move on to the next document. We're going to
10 skip one and move on to the one after that, which is 5D04212, 5D04212.
11 It's a document from the investigating judge, sent to your department.
12 Can you tell us what it's about?
13 A. This is a document from the District Military Court in Mostar,
14 Drago Bevanda, the investigating judge, who is issuing an order to our
15 department to take Vedran Bijuk into custody, detained at Heliodrom, to
16 take him from the Heliodrom to the prison in Mostar. And we send this on
17 down to the military police that saw to the transference of prisoners
18 from the court to the prison.
19 Q. Now, in the course of your work, was it customary for you to
20 undertake things like that pursuant to orders from the investigating
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Now, we're going to skip another document again and move on to
25 Earlier on, you answered a question and said that the
1 investigating judge was the person who was authorised to issue a sentence
2 of detention, and the duration of that detention. Here we can see that
3 this is a ruling, a decision. Can you tell us what this is about?
4 A. The same military district court and the same judge is issuing a
5 detention sentence for 15 days upon reception of the decision, based on
6 the criminal report filed by our department against the individual.
7 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] I don't know whether
8 everybody in the courtroom has a transcript, but my co-counsel tells me
9 that the transcript isn't working, the record isn't working in the
10 courtroom properly.
11 MS. WEST: Good afternoon, Mr. President.
12 I just want to tell you that mine's not working either.
13 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] I don't know if I can
14 continue, or are we going to put the problem right? Can somebody give me
15 guidance on that?
16 [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] In that case, we'll have the
18 break now, and then we will resume at half past. I hope the technician
19 will be able to repair this.
20 We will have a 20-minute break.
21 --- Recess taken at 5.13 p.m.
22 --- On resuming at 5.34 p.m.
23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The court is back in session.
24 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, may I begin?
25 I'm not sure I understood.
1 Q. Tell us, please, Witness -- well, we have a series of documents
2 to get through related to this same person, but I'm going to skip quite a
3 few of them, seven in fact, and I'm going to move on to 5D04198, which
4 is -- it's 5D04198. It's a document from the Police Administration. Is
5 that the civilian police?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. We can see that it is sent to the District Military Court
8 Mostar, and it says "Reference" and your reference number. And it goes
9 on to say:
10 "In your requests cited, the subject you informed us about with
11 respect to Vedran Bijuk, aka Splico ..."
12 And then it says:
13 "Acting in response to your request, we hereby inform you that
14 the criminal police of the Mostar Police Administration has some not-yet
15 fully verified intelligence referring to the criminal activity of
16 Vedran Bijuk, also known as Splico. The intelligence information has
17 been referred to the offices of the HVO Military Police Centre in
19 And I have two questions to ask you on that basis. You've
20 already told us that you cooperated with the civilian police force. Now
21 tell us whether you received this type of intelligence from them.
22 A. We sent out requests to the civilian police because we were
23 poorly equipped technically.
24 Q. Yes, yes, I know that. But tell me whether the civilian police
25 co-operated with you, and did it supply you with information that you had
2 A. Yes, it did co-operate and it did send us information.
3 Q. Now, tell us, please -- in this document, we can see that the
4 military court is seeking information from the civilian police force. In
5 your work, did you know that the military court and military prosecutor
6 asked for information from the civilian police force, as it did of you?
7 A. Yes, I did know that they were asking information from the
8 civilian police, and they could have asked information from anybody who
9 was able to supply them with information linked to the crime committed.
10 Q. Thank you. That completes this binder, and we can move on to the
11 next one.
12 Let's move on to 5D02097, which is the first document. And I
13 asked you, when we started, about what steps were taken when serious
14 crimes had been committed; for example, the crime of murder. And you
15 told me, in response to my question, that the investigating judge goes
16 out onto the crime scene. This document is an eye-witness
17 record compiled by the investigating judge, and we see in the first
18 sentence underneath the heading that it was compiled at the crime scene
19 with respect to the murder of Ramiza Delalic, daughter of Becir. And of
20 those present, we see the investigating judge listed, the deputy military
21 prosecutor, the crime technician of the police station, an employee of
22 the police station, and two criminal investigation operatives of the
23 military police.
24 First, tell me this: Was this standard procedure for eye-witness
25 records following the crime?
1 A. In most cases, eye-witness records of this type were compiled as
2 conducted by the High Court in Mostar.
3 Q. And did the military judge do the same?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Now, we have the name of the person killed, Ermina Delalic -- or,
6 rather, Ramiza Delalic. I couldn't see the first name properly, but the
7 surname is Delalic, anyway. What ethnicity was the person?
8 A. She was a Muslim.
9 Q. We're going to skip three documents now and move on to the fourth
10 one, which is 5D02095, and it's a request for sending in photographic
11 evidence which the Crime Prevention Department of Ljubuski is sending to
12 the Mostar Police Administration. Now, this Mostar
13 Police Administration, was that the military police or the civilian
15 A. It was the civilian police.
16 Q. Can you tell us why the civilian police was asked for the
17 photographic details?
18 A. It is clear from the previous document, and for the one you're
19 showing me now, that since we didn't have the necessary technology to
20 provide photographic documentation, we had to rely on the
21 Police Administration in Mostar. So we see from the previous document
22 how the Police Administration and Crime Prevention Department people
23 worked together, the Ljubuski centre was requesting for this photographic
24 file, if the file was ready.
25 Q. We're now going to skip a document and move on to P06893, and
1 it's another Crime Prevention Department document. Do you know the
2 person who signed the document?
3 A. Yes, I do. He was Kresimir Tolj, the head of the crime
4 Prevention Department in the HVO Military Police in the Ljubuski centre,
5 head of the Ljubuski centre.
6 Q. Now, let's look at the last paragraph in that document, and it
8 "The on-site investigation established that during the attack on
9 Omer Zagic's family house, Ramiza Delalic was killed in front of her
10 house located next to -- next-door to Omer Zagic. Following the on-site
11 investigation and the questioning of witnesses, this centre filed
12 criminal reports to the Mostar OVT against the above-mentioned members of
13 the Convicts Battalion who were the perpetrators of these crimes -- of
14 the said crimes."
15 Now, tell me what "OVT Mostar" is. What does that stand for?
16 A. District Military Prosecutor.
17 Q. And my second question is this: Do you know whether these
18 criminal files were -- criminal reports were filed?
19 A. Well, I'm familiar with this case because I was in Ljubuski
20 myself, in the Military Police Administration at that time, and I know
21 that these criminal reports were indeed filed.
22 Q. Right. Let's move on to the next document, which is 5D04259.
23 This is another record on a crime scene investigation, compiled by the
24 investigating judge, and it says here:
25 "Compiled at the scene of crime on the 25th of June, 1992
1 front of the house of Husein Korac, in Bivolje Brdo, Capljina
2 municipality, following the murder of Husein Korac, the owner of the
4 "The Capljina Public Security Station, on the 25th of June, 1992
5 at 1200 hours, notified the investigating judge of this court that a
6 murder had been committed."
7 Tell me now, this Public Security Station, was that a civilian
8 police station?
9 A. Yes, the civilian police station in Capljina.
10 Q. Did you know about the fact that the civilian police, like you,
11 sent information and would send information to the investigating judge in
12 case of the crime of murder?
13 A. Yes, we worked in similar fashion.
14 Q. Now let's go on to the next document, which is 5D04154. And let
15 me remind you, before we take a look at this document, that the plaintiff
16 in the previous document was Husein Korac. Now, judging by his name, can
17 you tell us which ethnicity he was?
18 A. He was a Muslim.
19 Q. Now, the document we're now looking at is 5D04154, 0154, 04154.
20 5D04154: It's from the District Military Court in Mostar. It's a ruling
21 to open an investigation; and we see that the individual against whom the
22 investigation is being conducted is called Alen Ulakovic and that he was
23 in the HVO Capljina units. And we see that there are reasonable grounds
24 to suspect that he killed Husein Korac.
25 Now, tell me, please -- we saw previously that this first
1 eye-witness report was written by the investigating judge of the civilian
2 court. Now we see that this is done -- this document is being compiled
3 by the district Military Court and the person was involved with the HVO.
4 Now, if a member of the civilian police were to uncover that the person
5 suspected of committing crime was a member of the HVO, what steps would
6 they take, if any?
7 A. They also filed criminal reports. And on the basis of that, the
8 court makes a decision to start an investigation.
9 Q. Can we move on to the next document, 5D04258, 5D04258. Can you
10 tell us what kind of a document this is?
11 A. The Higher Public Prosecutor's Office in Mostar is issuing an
12 indictment against Alen Ulakovic, who we mentioned a few moments ago, and
13 the charge is murder.
14 Q. Now we're going to look at the next document. The document is
15 5D04173. This is a document of the Mostar Police Station. This is an
16 official note which was sent to the Military Police Administration. And
17 we see, in the last page, that it says:
18 "I note that it is necessary to make the criminal investigators
19 of the Mostar Police Station aware of this document, as well as the
20 military police of the Mostar HVO, so that necessary legal action may be
21 taken against the mentioned soldier."
22 Tell me, if the civilian police discovered that a perpetrator was
23 a soldier, could they cede the case to you, as the military police, and
24 was it the military judiciary that was in charge of dealing with military
1 A. Yes, military personnel were dealt with by the military
2 judiciary. We see here that the situation is very clear, that a soldier
3 is extorting money from a civilian who was the vendor there, and then the
4 civilian police sent this on to us to process the matter.
5 Q. Very well. Now we are going to move on to the next document,
6 5D04164. Stanko Zelenika is the person we mentioned a moment ago. Can
7 you tell us what kind of a document this is and whether you recall the
8 actual incident?
9 A. This is a criminal report establishing that Stanko Zelenika, a
10 member of the 2nd Brigade, is the person against who we are filing a
11 criminal report on account of the crime that we spoke of a moment ago.
12 Q. We are going to skip a few documents, so we're going to skip one,
13 two, three, four, five documents -- six documents, rather, and we're
14 going to move on to 5D04175. This is an exhibit. It was signed by the
15 investigating judge of the District Court in Mostar, and it says here
16 "Decision." The investigation against the accused Stanko Zelenika is
17 being halted.
18 The statement of reasons says, in the third paragraph, that:
19 "In motion number," such and such, "the district military
20 prosecutor in Mostar declared that he would not proceed with the criminal
21 prosecution of Stanko Zelenika."
22 Could you please tell us whether you knew that the district
23 military prosecutor could drop charges even after you file a criminal
25 A. Yes, I knew that he could drop charges. However, the injured
1 party could initiate proceedings once again.
2 Q. Let us look at the next document now, please, 5D04165.
3 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Excuse me.
4 Witness, if I look at this, it seems that the prosecutor is not
5 giving any reasons for discontinuing the investigation. Is it his free
6 discretion to discontinue for any reasons of opportunity?
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] We, I mean the department that I
8 worked in, cannot influence that. We were always just a service, as it
9 were, of the prosecutor, so his decisions were his alone.
10 JUDGE TRECHSEL: That does not answer my question. My question
11 was whether the prosecutor is entitled to discontinue proceedings if he
12 thinks this is a useful thing to do, without having to give specific
13 reasons, such as the investigation has shown that there is no sufficient
14 reason to justify going on with the investigation.
15 I hope I managed to express myself.
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] My answer to you is going to be
17 that I wish the reason were mentioned in this decision or in the
18 statement of reasons. A statement of reasons without stating the reasons
19 is not right, as far as I'm concerned. However, that is his
20 discretionary right because he's the prosecutor.
21 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Thank you. That's exactly what I wanted to
22 hear, that it was his discretionary right. Some legal orders are like
23 this; others are different. Thank you.
24 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
25 Q. We're looking at the next document now, that is, 5D04165. This
1 is a proposed indictment --
2 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's note: Could all other
3 microphones please be switched off. We cannot hear the speaker.
4 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
5 Q. It says here in which capacity these persons were acting at the
6 check-point of Vrapcici. Checking vehicles, they asked a driver for such
7 and such a thing, and they asked for money, they shared the money, and
8 they did the same thing in the case of several drivers who are unknown.
9 Do you remember this case, and do you remember whether this proposed
10 indictment was based on a criminal report that came from your department?
11 A. To the best of my recollection, this document was adopted after
12 our department filed a criminal report.
13 Q. Let us move on to the next document, 5D04230. This is a criminal
14 report that the District Military Prosecutor's Office in Mostar is filing
15 on behalf of Edin Serdarevic, a citizen. My first question is whether
16 citizens could report crimes directly to the prosecutor, and if so, did
17 they do that?
18 A. They could do it, and we can see here, on the 10th of March,
19 Edin Serdarevic from Crnici appeared of his own volition, and he filed a
20 criminal report against Ante Skoda, a member of the HVO.
21 Q. Tell, Edin Serdarevic, what would his ethnic background be?
22 A. Edin Serdarevic is a Muslim.
23 Q. Very well. Let's move on to the next document, 5D04231. This is
24 a document of the District Prosecutor's Office in Mostar, and we see that
25 Edin Serdarevic is mentioned. We see here that the injured party is
1 filing a report, and thereby a request for starting an investigation.
2 Was this a possible course of action? Could the prosecutor do this on
3 the basis of a direct report filed by a citizen?
4 A. To the best of my knowledge, yes.
5 Q. Very well. We are going to skip a few documents yet again.
6 We're going to skip four documents, and we're going to deal with the
7 fifth one there, 5D04181. This is a document that consists of several
8 pages. Could you please take a look and tell us what this is all about?
9 A. This has to do with the Capljina office. As we can see, it is a
10 criminal report filed against soldier Veselko Kozina, and we see that he
11 was taking money from detainees.
12 Q. Tell us, please, are these the kind of criminal reports that you
13 wrote up? I'm referring to the form, not the actual content in this
15 A. Yes, this is basically what they looked like.
16 Q. Very well. Now we're going to skip a document and move on to
17 5D03087. Tell me -- we saw just now that you did regular police work, as
18 the police usually does. You filed criminal reports, et cetera. Tell
19 me, did you take any other kind of action when combatting crime?
20 A. We see here that at a meeting, we were being informed about
21 certain things, and we are acting in accordance with that.
22 Q. Tell me, it says here on page 2 in the Croatian version, and in
23 English it is page 2 as well, I think, it says:
24 "1. Appoint three groups."
25 Do you remember that some kind of groups were made to fight
2 A. Already in midsummer 1993, we tried to organise ourselves; that
3 is to say, all of us who fought crime, the civilian police and the
4 military police and the SIS. Already then, we were trying to set up
5 certain professional groups that would deal with crime. This is just an
6 indication of what happened in November and what form this assumed. So
7 we have these groups all along. We're trying to work together, because
8 there are a great many crimes that we cannot deal with on our own.
9 Q. Tell me, did the representatives of the military judiciary, the
10 Military Prosecutor's Office, the army, et cetera, co-operate with you on
11 this kind of thing?
12 A. Yes. In July, I think, a meeting had been initiated by the
13 Ministry of the Interior, and we actually met up with a representative of
14 the Military Court and a representative of the Military Prosecutor's
15 Office. And that is precisely the kind of thing we dealt with together
16 with the MUP and the military police; that is to say, the crime
17 departments of the MUP and of the military police.
18 Q. Tell me -- you mentioned some criminal groups in Mostar. Were
19 any arrests made? Do you remember anything of the kind, that there were
20 actions in that regard?
21 A. In Mostar, we had these crime groups that we could not deal with
22 on our own, we as our department, so through this kind of co-ordination
23 and through such meetings, we tried to deal with the matter. Arrests
24 were made. Especially in the month of July and August 1993, practically
25 all of Mostar was the front-line, so what happened was that in the area
1 of combat activity there would be buildings where civilians still lived,
2 so very often within that zone there was a lot of looting. These
3 apartments were being broken into and so on. We had an action, and we
4 called the command of the defence of the city to help us deal with a
5 criminal group in the street of Ricina. I think this was precisely
6 towards the end of July 1993. That would be an example on the basis of
7 which I could explain how we fought against these criminal groups.
8 Q. Just a second, please. Let us look at document 5D04183.
9 Previously, we saw what the situation was like when the civilian
10 police ceded cases to military organs when a case would involve military
11 personnel, and now look at this. This is a document of the District
12 Military Prosecutor's Office in Mostar, sent to the Higher Public
13 Prosecutor's Office, that is to say, the Civilian Public Prosecutor's
14 Office in Mostar, and it says here:
15 "Please find enclosed a criminal report from the Military Crime
16 Police Department - Mostar Section - against suspect Bozidar Skobic,
17 suspected of having committed the crime of robbery ..."
18 In paragraph 2, it says that the report shows that the suspect
19 was relieved of military service because of illness, and, therefore,
20 since he was relieved of military duty, it is the civilian prosecutor's
21 office that is in charge of dealing with that person.
22 Tell me, were you aware of such cases? Were there cases of that
23 kind when things were the other way around, when the military authorities
24 were sending cases to the civilian authorities?
25 A. We filed criminal reports against every person --
1 JUDGE PRANDLER: I'm really sorry, and I restrained myself up to
2 now, but again and again you are talking very quickly and you give a
3 headache to the interpreters. So please -- actually, the counsel has
4 promised and asked the witness to speak slowly and making a pause between
5 questions and answers. Please stick to this rule. Thank you.
6 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
7 Q. Sir, on pages 2 and 3 we can find the enclosed criminal report
8 which the prosecutor has mentioned. That's a report made by the Military
9 Police Crime Department. And on the last page, we see a description of
10 the crime, where the injured party is named. Her name is Saja Coric.
11 Can you tell by the name of this person which ethnicity she is?
12 A. She's a Bosniak woman.
13 Q. We'll skip some documents again, since I have already used two
15 We'll now skip two documents and go to 5D04238. This is a
16 criminal report for attempted murder at the Gabela Prison. Do you know
17 the person who signed this document?
18 A. Yes. He is a member of the Crime Department of the Military
19 Police at Capljina.
20 Q. And did you know him?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. We'll have to skip something again, one document, and go to
23 5D04237. This is a document of the Mostar Military Court -- actually,
24 the Mostar Military Prosecutor's Office, sent to the Military Court
25 same name as on the previous document. What kind of document is this?
1 A. This document follows logically from the criminal report we
2 saw -- we have just seen. Zivko Korda. This is an indictment of the
3 Military Prosecutor's Office of Mostar.
4 Q. Let's move on to the following document, 5D0420 -- correction,
6 A. [No interpretation]
7 Q. The document reference is 5D04240, 5D04240. Can you please
8 repeat your answer, because it was not recorded. What kind of document
9 is this?
10 A. This is a judgement of the Higher Court of Mostar in the
11 proceedings against the accused, Zivko Korda, mentioned previously.
12 Q. Let's move on to the following document, 5D04242. What kind of
13 document is this?
14 A. This is a criminal report of our section from Mostar which was
15 filed in September 1992.
16 Q. In the description of the crime, we see that this person stole
17 two TV sets and an automobile, the proprietor of which is unknown. Since
18 the owner is unknown, how could the military police know that this person
19 has in his possession stolen objects?
20 A. We had operative intelligence, and in many such cases we got this
21 information from citizens.
22 Q. What does the "operative intelligence" mean? Can you use a
23 simpler term? Does that mean that somebody informs you, This guy is
24 bringing home TV sets, or whatever?
25 A. As I said initially, we also got information from the military
1 police patrols, as well as from citizens, from the MUP. It is possible
2 that here, somebody reported the fact that this car was used without
3 license plates or something.
4 Q. Take a look at the following document, please, 5D04243. What
5 kind of document is this?
6 A. This is a criminal report of our department from Mostar against
7 Ivan Zelenika for rape and aggravated threat.
8 Q. In the description of the crime, we see that the injured parties
9 are Ljiljana Janjic and Olja Telebak. Can you tell by their names what
10 their ethnicity is?
11 A. Their ethnicity is Serbian.
12 Q. Now look at document 5D04248. This is a criminal report against
13 one Milenko Kordic. It's a report compiled by your section, and it's
14 about an offence committed at the Cadjava Mehana Cafe. Have you heard of
15 this incident?
16 A. I'm familiar with this incident. I worked for the Crime Section
17 in Mostar at the time, and I believe that I was directly involved in the
18 processing of this murder.
19 Q. I will skip a document and move on to 5D04249. This is an
20 on-site investigation record. We can see that the on-site investigation
21 was conducted in the Cadjava Mehana Cafe, and we see that it was signed
22 by the investigating judge of the District Military Court. Do you
23 remember that this on-site investigation was carried out, as you have
24 indicated that you were involved in this case?
25 A. I remember this on-site investigation, and I see here that
1 Damir Cipra, a member of our crime department, attended the on-site
3 Q. We will skip some documents again and go to the third document.
4 So we have skipped two. That's 5D04255. We have seen that a criminal
5 report was filed against Milenko Kordic. Can you read this and tell us
6 what kind of document this is? We see your signature on it.
7 A. This is an amendment that we sent to the District Military Court
8 where the official notes of ours and those of the Mostar Police Station,
9 based on the criminal report filed on the 19th of August against the
10 suspect in that murder case who we mentioned earlier.
11 Q. Look at the following page of this document, please. It reads
12 "Official Note compiled by Damir Cipra." It says:
13 "Through intelligence work, I found out that the Kordic brothers,
14 on the night of 9/10 August 1993, took from his flat one Vahid Krilic,
15 whose body was found the following morning in the park ...
16 "The same persons took by force the Hodzic family from their
17 apartment in 1st Street ..."
18 As you worked on this case, do you remember that you came by this
19 additional information and that you submitted them to the Prosecutor's
20 Office in this way?
21 A. Well, this was done by my colleague, Damir Cipra, and he amends
22 the previous documents with this official note, with the information
23 about the murder of Vahid Krilic, and this was an amendment to the
24 criminal report which was submitted to the District Military Court
1 Q. These persons, the Hodzic family and Vahid Krilic, can you tell
2 their ethnicity?
3 A. They are Muslims.
4 Q. Let's take a look at the following document --
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I haven't put a question to you
6 for a while.
7 You have just said that the victims are Muslims. Were they
8 living in West Mostar?
9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I believe that this 1st Street
10 in the western part of Mostar.
11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] We are in August 1993. As far
12 as you know, by and large, according to you, how many Muslims were living
13 in West Mostar in August of 1993? I'm asking you to provide us with
14 empirical data. Here, we have proof of the fact that there was at least
15 one person living there.
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't want to speculate about
17 numbers, but there was a large number -- a significant number of people
18 who lived in the western part of Mostar.
19 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] This significant number you
20 have mentioned, are you talking in the tens of thousands, of hundreds;
21 what, exactly?
22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I dare say thousands of people.
23 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
24 Q. Let's move on to the following document, 5D04250. This is a
25 ruling on detention, issued by the investigating judge of the District
1 Military Court
2 "An investigation has been opened against the accused,
3 Milenko Kordic, because there are reasonable grounds to suspect that he
4 committed the crime of murder ...
5 "The nature of the crime is such that the accused's being at
6 large would disturb the local population.
7 "For that reason, the accused should be immediately arrested and
9 We can see that this was, among others, sent to the military
10 police, the Crime Prevention Department in Mostar. At that time, you
11 were the head of that department. Do you remember whether this person
12 was, indeed, detained pursuant to this ruling?
13 A. As far as I remember, he was.
14 Q. We will skip four documents now and continue with the fifth,
15 P04163. This is the statement of a witness. Officer Toni Ramljak
16 conducted the interview. Do you know who that was?
17 A. He was an official of the military police in Mostar.
18 Q. We see the name of Jeton Berisa [phoen], a member of the
19 Convicts Battalion, Krusko. Do you remember this individual?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Do you know whether a criminal report was filed against him?
22 A. Our department did file a criminal report against him.
23 Q. All right, let's move on to the following document, P01728.
24 You told us initially that military commanders, if they had the
25 necessary information about the perpetrator, could file a criminal report
1 themselves. Can you tell us what this document is about, what kind of
2 document it is, P01728?
3 A. This a document of the 2nd Brigade of the Operative Zone of
4 South-East Herzegovina
5 commander directly files a criminal report against his soldiers for
6 stealing a rifle.
7 Q. Did you know of such cases where commanders filed criminal
8 reports against their soldiers?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. We'll skip now -- we'll skip three documents now. This is a
11 document from Central Bosnia, P00453. That's not your zone. I just ask
12 you for the sake of principle. Here, the commander from Central Bosnia
13 the commander of the zone of operations, orders the military police that
14 based on the evidence and the existing need, go and arrest a person with
15 a patrol and take that person to prison because there is information that
16 that person committed a crime.
17 You told us that you received daily orders from the zone of
18 operations and that you assisted military commanders. Did you receive
19 such orders? Is this what you had in mind?
20 A. This order was sent down to the battalion that I was a member of,
21 the military police battalion to which I belonged. As I said, first of
22 all, the 3rd Battalion, then it was the 5th Battalion, and then, through
23 the daily briefings, we would be given this kind of order. If the
24 commander of the operative zone were to issue it, we would have to act
25 upon his orders, carry them out.
1 Q. Now we're going to skip a document and move on to the next one,
2 which is P02832. Can you tell us what this document is?
3 A. These are the minutes about an on-site investigation carried out
4 by the brigade military police from Gornji Vakuf.
5 Q. Did you have cases where the brigade military police was involved
6 in scene-of-crime investigations?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Then we can move on. 5D04350 is the document number, 5D04350.
9 This is a document from the 1st Brigade, sent to the SIS of the
10 1st Brigade. Actually, not the 1st Brigade, but the 3rd Battalion of the
11 1st Brigade, and sent to the SIS of the 1st Brigade, signed by SIS
12 officer and commander of the 3rd Battalion. And the subject is: "Report
13 on the attack on the Djulic family."
14 "On Friday, the 18th of June, 1993, at around 2030, three
15 uniformed men entered the house of Ibro Djulic, without any insignia and
16 wearing hoods over their heads. In the house, they found Ibro and his
17 wife, Naza, and they mistreated them until they were insensible."
18 Now, I'm skipping over two paragraphs, and it says:
19 "All this went on until about 2300 hours or, rather, until
20 soldiers from the 3rd Battalion arrived, who, at around 130 hours, after
21 searching the surroundings, found Ibro and Naza in the tobacco
22 plantation ..."
23 And then in the last paragraph, it says that the brigade
24 operative was informed about this event in a timely manner, and after
25 that the necessary steps were taken to solve the case:
1 "All data and information in connection to the investigation were
2 handed over to the members of the police."
3 Now, tell us -- we saw earlier on today Article 27, the decree
4 governing the district courts. Now, tell me whether this action was
5 taken pursuant to Article 27.
6 A. We're dealing with the Knez Domagoj 1st HVO Brigade, which
7 I think was Capljina, and here we have a fine example of where the
8 battalion commander works with the SIS operative to throw light on this
10 Q. Thank you, sir. I think I'm going to skip over some other
11 documents and move on.
12 May we go into private session for just a minute, please,
13 Your Honours?
14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Registrar, can we move into
15 closed session, please.
16 [Private session]
5 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 6.36 p.m.
6 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 30th day of March,
7 2010, at 9.00 a.m.