Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 9516

 1                           Thursday, 17 July 2008

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           --- Upon commencing at 8.31 a.m.

 4                           [The accused entered court]

 5             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Kindly call the case,

 6     registrar, please.

 7             THE REGISTRAR:  Thank you and good morning, Your Honours.  This

 8     is case number IT-03-67-T, the Prosecutor versus Vojislav Seselj.

 9             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] This is July 17th, 2008, and I

10     welcome everyone from the OTP.  I welcome our accused and everyone

11     helping us around the courtroom.

12             Today, we're going to have a hearing in closed session.  I would

13     like the usher to please drop the blinds and the Registrar to please put

14     the CS logo on the screen.

15                           [Closed session]

16   (redacted)

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Page 9517











11 Pages 9517-9620 redacted. Closed session.















Page 9621

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20                           [Open session]

21             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, we're now in open session.

22             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] We are in open session.

23             Representatives of the OTP, I've just been told that the

24     Prosecution had filed a motion to get leave to exceed the 3.000 words

25     regarding the commission of a lawyer to the accused on several grounds.

Page 9622

 1     If I've understood things well, your submission is 35.000 words' long.

 2     Is that it, Ms. Biersay and Mr. Marcussen.

 3             MS. BIERSAY:  I believe that's correct, Your Honour.

 4             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Any comments, Mr. Seselj, on

 5     the fact that leave is asked?  To exceed the page limit, the Prosecutor

 6     would have ten times the amount of pages allowed by the practice

 7     direction.

 8             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I don't know what this is about,

 9     Mr. President.  If you could tell me, first of all, on account of what

10     the OTP is seeking permission to file such a moment, then I can give you

11     my position.

12             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] As you know, a few weeks back

13     the Prosecution told us that -- informed us that it was going to file a

14     motion asking for a duty counsel to be appointed.  This motion is 35.000

15     words' long, and it seems that all the grounds for this is explained in

16     this.  I don't have the motion, myself.  All I know is that there is a

17     motion asking for leave to be granted to move from 3.000 words to 35.000

18     words.

19             Is that it, Mr. Marcussen?

20             MR. MARCUSSEN:  Your Honours, two matters.  The motion has been

21     filed as a confidential filing, so I wonder whether we need to redact

22     this, although of course it's merely a motion for an extension of the

23     word limit.

24             I'm looking at the filing that has gone in, and maybe just to

25     inform Mr. Seselj a little bit about the -- well, maybe we should go into

Page 9623

 1     private session and then I can inform Mr. Seselj about the reasons so he

 2     can respond.  I understand that's what he wants to happen.

 3             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The legal officer, who knows

 4     everything, says it is a public version of this motion, so there's no

 5     need to move into private session.  It's the public version that we have.

 6             MR. MARCUSSEN:  Sorry, I stand corrected.  Yes, there exists a

 7     public, redacted version, I now see.

 8             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Seselj, could you tell us

 9     your position on this, on this motion filed, by which the Prosecution is

10     granting leave to exceed the word limit set out in a practice direction?

11             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Mr. President, I suggest that the

12     Trial Chamber allow the Office of the Prosecutor to use 500.000 words in

13     this motion.  Knowing how able and capable they are and how focused they

14     are, in terms of being able to express themselves succinctly, I think

15     that 500.000 words will do.

16             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You don't oppose the motion.

17     Very well.  Let me consult with my fellow Judges to see how we'll rule.

18             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter's note, seeking leave, not granting

19     leave.

20                           [Trial Chamber confers]

21             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The Trial Chamber has

22     deliberated and grants the motion.  The Prosecution can thus exceed the

23     page limit set out in the practice direction.  You're allowed.

24             We have 15 minutes before we adjourn.  Any questions,

25     Ms. Biersay?

Page 9624

 1             MS. BIERSAY:  Just for the record, Your Honour, earlier there was

 2     discussion about these two statements given by Witness VS-1022 to the

 3     Court, the first one dated the 5th of June, 1999, and the second one

 4     dated the 22nd of June, 1999.  As I've already said, we have already

 5     disclosed these materials to Mr. Seselj.  And I'd also like to add that

 6     those documents are part of 65 ter number 2563, previously disclosed to

 7     Mr. Seselj.

 8             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you very much,

 9     Ms. Biersay.

10             Mr. Seselj, is there something that you would like to add?

11             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I have two, very briefly.

12             First of all, I insist that the Prosecution give me a receipt

13     with my signature, stating that I received these two documents.

14             MS. BIERSAY:  Easily done, Your Honour.  In fact, it's already

15     been done.  It was part of our filing, the confidential annex G to the

16     filing that we made at the beginning of the month, informing the Court

17     what disclosures we had made with respect to witness statements.

18             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.  So it's in annex G

19     of the motion that you have.

20             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] All right.  And in a few words, I

21     would like to express my position regarding the intention of the

22     Prosecution to file a motion asking for imposition of counsel on me in

23     these proceedings.

24             Since more than half of the Prosecution case is over, we've moved

25     into the ninth month of the Prosecution case, and there is September,

Page 9625

 1     October and November, that is to say, a maximum of three or four months

 2     is left, obviously the OTP has one single motive; they are despairing

 3     over their failure in their case so far, they are seeking a way out of

 4     this situation, and the only way out, in the view of The Hague Office of

 5     the Prosecutor, is my death.  That is why they ask for counsel to be

 6     imposed on me, knowing that I will react by death, if counsel is imposed

 7     on me or a friend of the Court.  The Hague OTP knows that, and that's

 8     their only way out of these proceedings.

 9             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Seselj, what you said now,

10     you already told us before, so you're just repeating what you've told us

11     already.

12             For the time being, the Trial Chamber is not seized with that

13     motion.  We don't know what's inside the motion.  We haven't read it.

14     So, first of all, we will have to read the motion, and, secondly, you,

15     yourself, and your associates, and namely, Mr. Krasic, you will have to

16     reply to this motion.  Then a decision will be rendered.

17             Now, given the trial calender, this decision could only

18     perhaps -- will perhaps be rendered only in September or later, so before

19     talking about the motion, I would first have to know what it contains.

20     But for the time being, I don't know what it contains.  We are going to

21     study it, we will read it.  It's a very hefty document.  You will have a

22     chance to reply to it, and then we will decide on that motion.

23             Is there another topic that you would like to raise?

24             Yes, Mr. Seselj.

25             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes.  I've already told you that

Page 9626

 1     I'm not going to respond to that in writing, but I insist on having a

 2     public session with regard to this motion and that I be given appropriate

 3     time to state my views, in accordance with the number of words that you

 4     accord the OTP with regard to their motion.  I want a public session

 5     about this, not a secret one.  If there's a secret one, I'm not going to

 6     take part in it, absolutely not, and I'm not going to express my views in

 7     writing.  No matter what your ruling may be, I'm not going to complain or

 8     appeal it.  If it is contrary to what I said, then I start a hunger

 9     strike, and then there are no appeals, and then there are no stops to it

10     or interruptions.

11             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Seselj, let me tell you,

12     first of all, that -- don't make any threats.  No pressure -- it does not

13     amount to anything.

14             Second of all, if you do not wish to respond in writing, but if

15     you wish to give an oral response, you wish to do it publicly and you

16     wish to do an oral response; is that correct?  Very well.

17             So the Judges of this Trial Chamber will take into account what

18     you tell us, and we will be able to give you the floor, as I have always

19     done so far.  You can certainly not complain that I've ever tried, since

20     nine months, when we started the trial, that I haven't allowed you to

21     speak.  I never try to cut you off.

22             It is almost time to resume -- to end our session for today, so I

23     thank you very much, and the hearing will resume on Tuesday at 2.15 p.m.

24             Thank you.

25                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.07 p.m.,

Page 9627

 1                           to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 22nd day of

 2                           July, 2008, 2.15 p.m.