Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 9885

 1                           Wednesday, 24 September 2008

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           --- Upon commencing at 8.31 a.m.

 4                           [The accused entered court]

 5             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Registrar, please call the

 6     case.

 7             THE REGISTRAR:  Thank you and good morning, Your Honours.

 8             This is case number IT-03-67-T, the Prosecutor versus

 9     Vojislav Seselj.

10             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.

11             Today is Wednesday.  Let me greet Mr. Mundis, Ms. Dahl, their

12     staff, as well as Mr. Seselj and everyone assisting us in these

13     proceedings.

14             Let me ask the Registrar to move into private session.

15                           [Private session]

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13                           [Open session]

14             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, we're now in open session.

15             MS. DAHL:

16        Q.   Can you describe the atmosphere in Hrtkovci when you arrived

17     there.

18        A.   There is a folk song in Srem that says "Srem is so beautiful."

19     In 1989, when I came, and even in 1990, all the way up until what

20     happened in 1991, indeed life was heavenly.  It was a true heaven, and

21     this is no exaggeration.  People respected one another.  People were

22     happy.  They were hardworking, because the land of Srem does not want

23     masters, it needs hardworking people, servants, who work there, and this

24     was proven by the people there.  It is a place that is famous for its

25     watermelons and melons.  As a human being and (redacted), I felt great

Page 9896

 1     among these people, regardless of who they were and what they were.

 2             As far as I know, in these parts there are 21 ethnic groups.

 3             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Registrar, we need to

 4     redact part of what the witness has just said.

 5             Let's proceed.

 6             MS. DAHL:

 7        Q.   Can you describe for the Chamber the ethnic variations or

 8     composition of the residents of Hrtkovci and the size of the town, in

 9     terms of population?

10        A.   It's quite big, in terms of territory and in terms of population

11     numbers.  I wouldn't know the exact numbers, but I had about 3.000

12     Catholics.  When I'm saying "Catholics," I don't mean only Croats.  Most

13     of them were Croats, but then there were Serbs, Hungarians and other

14     minorities.

15             MS. DAHL:  If we go -- may we go into private session for a

16     moment, please.

17             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes.  Registrar, please,

18     private session.

19                           [Private session]

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25                           [Open session]

Page 9921

 1             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, we're now in open session.

 2             MS. DAHL:

 3        Q.   Mr. Witness, let me turn your attention to the rally in Hrtkovci

 4     in May 1992 by Mr. Seselj.  Before the break, you indicated the date of

 5     the speech.  Can you repeat that, please?

 6        A.   I think I said that it was on the 6th of May, 1992.

 7        Q.   Before the speech, did you hear anything about the speech?  Was

 8     it promoted in Hrtkovci?

 9             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreters note, we cannot hear the speaker.

10     We didn't hear the beginning.

11        A.   I was not interested in what party it was, because I had two

12     friends.  They were my friends, and I gave them a ride to Ruma or to

13     Sremska Mitrovica.  I don't remember.  It doesn't really matter.  They

14     did what they had to do, and as we were coming back, there were such

15     crowds in Hrtkovci that we wondered what it was all about, and then we

16     realised that it was Mr. Seselj who was promoting his party.

17     (redacted)

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20             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Witness, was the name of

21     Mr. Seselj familiar to you at the time?  Was he a well-known media

22     personality, was he well known in the media, or did that name ring a bell

23     or not?

24             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Not to engage in any flattery,

25     Mr. Seselj is a person who is well known not only in the territory of the

Page 9922

 1     former Yugoslavia but also throughout the world, as I heard about him

 2     even in Bosnia-Herzegovina, that he was a high intellectual, very well

 3     educated.  I heard all the best about him.  When he took over this

 4     political party, I thought, fine, things are going to be great because he

 5     is such a great man.  I had the best possible opinion of him.

 6             I ask Mr. Seselj for his apology.  (redacted)

 7     (redacted)

 8     (redacted).

 9             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Fine.  We'll need to redact the

10     final portion of your answer because this may identify you.  Thank you

11     for this additional information.

12             Please proceed, Ms. Dahl.

13             MS. DAHL:

14        Q.   Are you aware of the setting or the place where the speech was to

15     be given?

16        A.   Well, just before this happened, in Hrtkovci a very fine cultural

17     centre was built.  It could have been held there, but I think that since

18     so many people attended, it was held across the street from the petrol

19     station on the road towards Jarak and Ruma.

20        Q.   Did you see posters announcing the rally in Hrtkovci?

21        A.   No, I didn't see any posters, because I did not go there as this

22     was happening.  I could no longer go there, and I personally avoided big

23     gatherings.

24        Q.   Did you -- when you returned to Hrtkovci, did you see any portion

25     of the rally?

Page 9923

 1        A.   Yes.  There were people there.  The speech was still on as my two

 2     friends and I passed in the car.

 3        Q.   Did you hear anything from the crowds?

 4        A.   As people were coming in, well, this is a bit embarrassing, I

 5     heard it but I energetically stated, "Do not add anything to what was

 6     actually said."  Perhaps it doesn't really matter.  If something is said,

 7     it has to be correct.  So what I heard from people was that the point

 8     was -- or, rather, the pinnacle was that all Croats and everything Croat

 9     had to leave Hrtkovci.  That's what I heard from them, and it was the

10     most difficult thing for me, (redacted)

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13             MS. DAHL:  I think the witness is going into a different area

14     than my question, but perhaps we should go into private session and

15     redact the last answer.

16             JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes, and we also need to redact

17     what he said at line 8, for example.  He referred to himself.

18             Mr. Registrar, please prepare the necessary redactions, together

19     with the Chamber's legal officer.

20             Let's go into private session.

21                           [Private session]

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12                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.13 p.m.,

13                           to be reconvened on Thursday, the 25th day of

14                           September, 2008, at 8.30 a.m.

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