Page 9885
1 Wednesday, 24 September 2008
2 [Open session]
3 --- Upon commencing at 8.31 a.m.
4 [The accused entered court]
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Registrar, please call the
6 case.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Thank you and good morning, Your Honours.
8 This is case number IT-03-67-T, the Prosecutor versus
9 Vojislav Seselj.
10 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.
11 Today is Wednesday. Let me greet Mr. Mundis, Ms. Dahl, their
12 staff, as well as Mr. Seselj and everyone assisting us in these
13 proceedings.
14 Let me ask the Registrar to move into private session.
15 [Private session]
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13 [Open session]
14 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're now in open session.
15 MS. DAHL:
16 Q. Can you describe the atmosphere in Hrtkovci when you arrived
17 there.
18 A. There is a folk song in Srem that says "Srem is so beautiful."
19 In 1989, when I came, and even in 1990, all the way up until what
20 happened in 1991, indeed life was heavenly. It was a true heaven, and
21 this is no exaggeration. People respected one another. People were
22 happy. They were hardworking, because the land of Srem
23 masters, it needs hardworking people, servants, who work there, and this
24 was proven by the people there. It is a place that is famous for its
25 watermelons and melons. As a human being and (redacted), I felt great
Page 9896
1 among these people, regardless of who they were and what they were.
2 As far as I know, in these parts there are 21 ethnic groups.
3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Registrar, we need to
4 redact part of what the witness has just said.
5 Let's proceed.
6 MS. DAHL:
7 Q. Can you describe for the Chamber the ethnic variations or
8 composition of the residents of Hrtkovci and the size of the town, in
9 terms of population?
10 A. It's quite big, in terms of territory and in terms of population
11 numbers. I wouldn't know the exact numbers, but I had about 3.000
12 Catholics. When I'm saying "Catholics," I don't mean only Croats. Most
13 of them were Croats, but then there were Serbs, Hungarians and other
14 minorities.
15 MS. DAHL: If we go -- may we go into private session for a
16 moment, please.
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes. Registrar, please,
18 private session.
19 [Private session]
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25 [Open session]
Page 9921
1 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're now in open session.
2 MS. DAHL:
3 Q. Mr. Witness, let me turn your attention to the rally in Hrtkovci
4 in May 1992 by Mr. Seselj. Before the break, you indicated the date of
5 the speech. Can you repeat that, please?
6 A. I think I said that it was on the 6th of May, 1992.
7 Q. Before the speech, did you hear anything about the speech? Was
8 it promoted in Hrtkovci?
9 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreters note, we cannot hear the speaker.
10 We didn't hear the beginning.
11 A. I was not interested in what party it was, because I had two
12 friends. They were my friends, and I gave them a ride to Ruma or to
13 Sremska Mitrovica. I don't remember. It doesn't really matter. They
14 did what they had to do, and as we were coming back, there were such
15 crowds in Hrtkovci that we wondered what it was all about, and then we
16 realised that it was Mr. Seselj who was promoting his party.
17 (redacted)
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20 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Witness, was the name of
21 Mr. Seselj familiar to you at the time? Was he a well-known media
22 personality, was he well known in the media, or did that name ring a bell
23 or not?
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Not to engage in any flattery,
25 Mr. Seselj is a person who is well known not only in the territory of the
Page 9922
1 former Yugoslavia
2 even in Bosnia-Herzegovina, that he was a high intellectual, very well
3 educated. I heard all the best about him. When he took over this
4 political party, I thought, fine, things are going to be great because he
5 is such a great man. I had the best possible opinion of him.
6 I ask Mr. Seselj for his apology. (redacted)
7 (redacted)
8 (redacted).
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Fine. We'll need to redact the
10 final portion of your answer because this may identify you. Thank you
11 for this additional information.
12 Please proceed, Ms. Dahl.
13 MS. DAHL:
14 Q. Are you aware of the setting or the place where the speech was to
15 be given?
16 A. Well, just before this happened, in Hrtkovci a very fine cultural
17 centre was built. It could have been held there, but I think that since
18 so many people attended, it was held across the street from the petrol
19 station on the road towards Jarak and Ruma.
20 Q. Did you see posters announcing the rally in Hrtkovci?
21 A. No, I didn't see any posters, because I did not go there as this
22 was happening. I could no longer go there, and I personally avoided big
23 gatherings.
24 Q. Did you -- when you returned to Hrtkovci, did you see any portion
25 of the rally?
Page 9923
1 A. Yes. There were people there. The speech was still on as my two
2 friends and I passed in the car.
3 Q. Did you hear anything from the crowds?
4 A. As people were coming in, well, this is a bit embarrassing, I
5 heard it but I energetically stated, "Do not add anything to what was
6 actually said." Perhaps it doesn't really matter. If something is said,
7 it has to be correct. So what I heard from people was that the point
8 was -- or, rather, the pinnacle was that all Croats and everything Croat
9 had to leave Hrtkovci. That's what I heard from them, and it was the
10 most difficult thing for me, (redacted)
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13 MS. DAHL: I think the witness is going into a different area
14 than my question, but perhaps we should go into private session and
15 redact the last answer.
16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes, and we also need to redact
17 what he said at line 8, for example. He referred to himself.
18 Mr. Registrar, please prepare the necessary redactions, together
19 with the Chamber's legal officer.
20 Let's go into private session.
21 [Private session]
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12 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.13 p.m.
13 to be reconvened on Thursday, the 25th day of
14 September, 2008, at 8.30 a.m.
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