1 Tuesday, 18 August 2009
2 [Status Conference]
3 [Open session]
4 --- Upon commencing at 2.17 p.m.
5 [The accused entered court]
6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Registrar, will you please
7 call the case.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Thank you and good afternoon, Your Honours. This
9 is case number IT-03-67-T, the Prosecutor versus Vojislav Seselj.
10 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Registrar.
11 This 18 August 2009
12 Prosecution. I don't forget to associate also all those who help us, the
13 registrar, the usher, and all others.
14 Today we have a hearing which is on administrative matters. We
15 haven't seen you, Mr. Seselj, for many weeks because of the holidays, and
16 now we are going to take stock of the questions you wish to discuss. I'm
17 therefore going to give you the floor.
18 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I hope that you know in advance,
19 Your Honours, the following: You suspended this case illegally on the
20 11th of February of this year, accepting the doubts or the suspicions of
21 the Prosecution that I and my associates exerted pressure on witnesses,
22 and then you noted in your decision that the proceedings would be
23 suspended until another Trial Chamber decides --
24 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Interpreters are talking
25 together at the same time. Continue, please.
1 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Another Trial Chamber decides on
2 the allegations made about intimidating the witnesses. To date no
3 proceedings have been indicate -- conducted against me or my associates
4 for intimidation of witnesses, and you are still waiting. The reason to
5 adopt this decision, and I'm talking about the majority of the members of
6 the Trial Chamber, was based on the false statement of Witness VS-008,
7 that he had been intimidated and how. No one directly intimidated him
8 but my associates got in touch with him, and my associates do have the
9 right to contact members of the Prosecution, and I had never asked for
10 the right to do that, but in principle I have the right to meet a witness
11 each time before he appears in the courtroom. Only if the witness
12 refuses categorically to meet me then the meeting would not take place,
13 but I didn't have any need to do that, and I could have had I wished. So
14 the meeting between members of the Defence team with a Prosecution
15 witness or a protected Prosecution witness is not something that is
16 forbidden per se. It's permitted.
17 I would like to recall -- remind you that this witness stated
18 that none of my associates threatened him, that they were polite to him,
19 very polite, but in the general atmosphere in Serbia at the moment,
20 according to what he says, that there are frequent killings, threats,
21 intimidation, and so on, he saw himself in the situation of a frightened
23 I would like to remind you once again that the Prosecution
24 informed here that that witness blackmailed them, either that they would
25 find accommodation for him and his wife in another country or he would
1 refuse to testify according to the statement that he provided to the
2 Prosecution. This is something that the Prosecution informed us about
4 You saw in the cross-examination that I proved that this witness
5 was entirely a false witness. I completely demolished his testimony.
6 Then subsequently the Prosecution asked information from the Republic of
8 the Ministry of the Interior and that he had falsely introduced himself
9 as a former security service member. I hope that you have this
10 information in front of you, that the Prosecution provided this
11 information to you just as it had provided it to me, with certificate 613
12 dated the 14th of July. This proves that he had never been employed in
13 the police.
14 Then there is another certificate from the Ministry of Foreign
15 Affairs that this witness was declared unfit for military service. So he
16 had never served his military term of duty either. Unfit for military
17 service in peacetime, meaning that in wartime he could have been only
18 engaged on work duty, his state of health permitting.
19 So you have here two pieces of evidence in writing that we are
20 talking about a false witness, two pieces of written evidence obtained by
21 the Prosecution. You have my own cross-examination and the documents
22 that I used in the cross-examination where I proved that the witness was
23 lying and that he had never been at the Vukovar front at all. And I'm
24 not going to speak about any other details about him so that he would not
25 be identified in public.
1 So on the basis of the testimony of this false witness you made
2 this decision. Your decision has been left hanging in the air, because
3 another proceedings for contempt of court is not being conducted at all
4 because this proceeding was initiated in the first place because of
5 allegations that I was intimidating witnesses. None of my associates had
6 been informed that proceedings for contempt of court had been initiated
7 against them for harassing or intimidating the witness.
8 Of course, another political decision was made to my detriment at
9 a different court. Perhaps this decision will be quashed, but in the
10 appeals I am going to disqualify it in legal and moral terms that the
11 Judges will have red ears who made such an illegal decision.
12 In that judgement the Trial Chamber never noted that I
13 intimidated any witnesses or that I published the book in question for
14 purposes of intimidating witnesses. In the judgement it says that I just
15 enabled the public to learn the names of protected witnesses. There is
16 no consequence of the publication, and there is never any assertion of
17 intimidation even though the theory of the Prosecution was that I had in
18 that way intimidated witnesses. It is not stated anywhere in the
19 judgement that I -- it was my intention to intimidate witnesses or that
20 this intimidation was carried out.
21 So since this decision of yours is left hanging up in the air, I
22 don't know what else we are waiting for with this decision. If from the
23 11th of February to the 18th of August no proceedings had been initiated,
24 what is the point of waiting?
25 There are ten remaining Prosecution witnesses. The Prosecution
1 has 5 hours and 15 minutes at their disposal. They had asked for
2 additional time. There is no reason for them to be granted additional
3 time because the Trial Chamber took over at least two Prosecution
4 witnesses as court witnesses and used three or more hours for the
5 examination-in-chief there. Thus the Prosecution practically gained or
6 saved the time for two witnesses, at least two witnesses. So as for
7 these 5 hours and 15 minutes, they would need to question the remaining
8 witnesses in that time.
9 I had made a specification at the last or the Status Conference
10 before last which witnesses are relevant and which are not, or which
11 could be relevant according to the locations of the crimes that they're
12 testifying on. And now bringing more witnesses in such a short period of
13 time who would testify allegedly about the model of conduct but are
14 actually testifying about the material nature of the crime, which is not
15 referred to in my indictment, would be absolutely futile, pointless, and
16 that is why I am inviting you to review your decision, to make a new
17 decision whereby you would instruct that the proceedings continue and
18 that the Prosecution completes the questioning of Prosecution witnesses.
19 Otherwise, you are going to make this whole proceedings futile. You are
20 going to continue to jeopardise my -- or violate my procedural rights, my
21 fundamental right to a fair trial and my fundamental right to a trial
22 within a reasonable period of time.
23 Perhaps you are waiting for something to happen, something that
24 nobody knows could happen. Well, thank God I'm still alive. I'm happy
25 to see that you are as well. God forbid that anything would happen to
1 any of the Judges. This would immediately stop the proceedings for three
2 months at least until a new Judge would be able to join the Trial
3 Chamber. So that is the only reason why I'm praying for your good
4 health, so that the proceedings would not be stopped by some newly
5 created objective circumstance. Please don't understand me wrongly that
6 I am having any emotions or sympathies or anything like that in terms of
7 that. I consider you as opponents in these proceedings, much more
8 serious opponents in the proceedings than the Prosecution, because the
9 Prosecution is something that I am dealing with very easily. I cannot
10 deal with you as easily, and whatever I say you don't even have to reply
11 to me. You are going to do what you are going to do, and things keep
12 continuing. I could do my utmost and bring out any sorts of arguments.
13 However, none of that would be any good if you are not going to hear
14 these arguments.
15 This is what I have to say in the first stage, and I hope that
16 I'm going to have another opportunity to address you about something
18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So, first of all, Mr. Seselj,
19 the Judges of the Chamber are not your adversaries. You are, for us, an
20 accused who is presumed innocent. There is an indictment against you,
21 but you are presumed to be innocent. Therefore, you are not an enemy of
22 the Judge, and we are not adversaries or enemies. Simply, I think you
23 may have said this in another meaning.
24 Secondly, I listened carefully, as I always do, what you just
25 said, and I believe I understood that it is on line 17, page 5, that you
1 request the Chamber to reconsider its decision of postponement of the
2 procedure. You are asking us to review this matter.
3 Is this an oral motion which you are making to request the
4 Chamber to review this [indiscernible], because if it is a verbal, oral,
5 then we are obliged to answer, if it is a motion. Of course, the
6 Prosecution will also have to let us know his observations. So the
7 question is the following: Are you requesting formally the Chamber to
8 review, re-examine its decision on the postponement, on the adjournment?
9 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes. I formally, orally demand
10 that the Trial Chamber reconsider their decision to suspend proceedings,
11 and at least in the continental law an oral has the same weight as a
12 written one.
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Mundis, the Prosecution
14 would let us know its position. Taking into account the importance of
15 the matter, perhaps you should let us -- give us your observations in
17 MR. MUNDIS: Thank you, Mr. President. Good afternoon,
18 Your Honours, and to Dr. Seselj and to everyone in and around the
19 courtroom. Perhaps written pleadings would be the best course of action
20 to take with respect to this oral application. If I could get an
21 indication from the Trial Chamber as to when they might like to have
22 those written pleadings, I will ensure that that deadline is met.
23 [Trial Chamber confers]
24 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. Perhaps we could
25 have it within the next ten days. That would be fine.
1 MR. MUNDIS: Thank you, Mr. President, Your Honours. We will
2 ensure that our filing is with the Registry within ten days from today.
3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Well, now, this being said, the
4 Chamber will make a decision, but on another plane you do imagine --
5 understand, Mr. Seselj, that if the Chamber took a decision, a majority
6 decision, to postpone, there was a reason. So it wasn't done just like
7 that. You will see that there were reasons to do so. I cannot say more.
8 So this is the first point which we have now examined. As soon
9 as the Chamber will have the motion -- or the observations of Mr. Mundis,
10 it will take a decision.
11 You have the floor again, Mr. Seselj.
12 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Concerning what you said, there had
13 been reasons, of course some reasons existed, but even then they were
14 totally unconvincing to me. For most members of the Trial Chamber, they
15 seemed convincing enough, I suppose. Let me now go -- not go into
16 speculations. The reasons presented to you by the Prosecution to suspend
17 proceedings were enough for you pending verifications of allegations that
18 I'm intimidating witnesses, but now you have newly arisen circumstances.
19 The newly arisen circumstances are these two documents procured by the
20 Prosecution, documents that were given me by the OTP that show
21 additionally, once again, that that protected witness lied in every way
22 in all he said in the courtroom and outside the courtroom. He had held
23 himself out to be somebody who used to work in the state security
24 service. Now we have proof he never worked there, not only in the state
25 security service. He was never even a beat policeman. He was never an
1 employee of the Ministry of the Interior. We also have proof that he was
2 unfit for military service.
3 This is more than enough to initiate contempt proceedings against
4 this false witness.
5 You have seen the documentation that I've used in the courtroom,
6 which I used to crush his entire evidence. You have also heard from the
7 Prosecution that he had tried to blackmail them and bargain with them
8 before he ever came inside a courtroom. He said, "Unless you provide
9 residence for me and my wife in a foreign country, I shall not give
10 testimony for the Prosecution on the basis of the statement I've given
11 you. I will testify instead for the Defence." We've heard that from the
12 Prosecution, and we have written proof of that.
13 I have pointed out to you indications that there have been many
14 false witnesses, and you've always found justifications for each one of
15 them, including the one who claimed that I held a rally in Mali Zvornik
16 two years before I actually held it. You were always inclined to justify
17 them by poor memory.
18 There are no errors caused by poor memory here. Last time, you
19 had a witness who couldn't even remember when he lived in France and what
20 he did there, but he remembered my words clearly. And even what he wrote
21 in his notebook, he did not know when he had written it, whether
22 contemporaneously or subsequently. And he cut out a dark figure who
23 stands behind much of the evidence presented here. You will remember him
24 perhaps, a general. The Prosecution never brings him here to testify,
25 not even in the Vukovar troika case, but he goes through many of their
1 cases like a constant thread.
2 There are many newly arisen circumstances, as I said, on which
3 you have to make up your minds and review your decision. Either stick to
4 the one you've made or make a new one. It is up to me to make my case
5 and let you decide.
6 You see, I'm in a very favourable position here. Time is working
7 in my favour. Nothing new can happen that can add to the charges already
8 level -- levelled against me, and you can see that there's actually
9 nothing weighing against me. There is not a single piece of evidence
10 that can link me to a single war crime, not a shred of evidence. Find
11 just one that would be convincing enough and I would immediately
12 stipulate to the entire indictment, but there is not one. So now either
13 a miracle will happen, or something will become known that nobody knew
14 before, or a new crime will come to light that could be ascribed to me.
15 For instance, in the war in Afghanistan
16 charge me with supporting the Taliban or supporting the Iraqi insurgency
17 against American occupation. I will gladly admit to these crimes and
18 will shorten these proceedings. But as far as the war in the Balkans are
19 concerned, you cannot associate me with a single war crime, and I think
20 that's crystal clear to you.
21 It's high time to draw this proceeding to a close. I've been
22 here nearly seven years. There's not a court in the US or anywhere that
23 would not acquit me just because I've been here seven years.
24 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] [Previous translation
25 continues] ... what you've just said. I had a question to ask you. I
1 was waiting for the end, but I'm going to ask you straight away. When
2 we -- when the Chamber -- the Chamber has not yet decided anything, but
3 suppose that we get the end of the proceedings, all the witness have come
4 or not come, and the Prosecution's argument is finished today, do you
5 intend to use the procedure of Article 98 bis, according to which you
6 will say that the Prosecutor has no argument to support his views, or do
7 you think it's too early? Because as you know, Article 98 bis enables
8 the Chamber ex officio to decide a case, but it can also be the request
9 for the Defence. So I would like to know, in order to reflect on the
10 matter personally, whether you have already envisaged a moment when you
11 yourself would give your own argument in order to show that the
12 Prosecution did not bring enough evidence sufficient to justify a
13 conviction, capable of supporting a conviction as said in Rule 98 bis.
14 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I would like you to remind you,
15 Mr. President, that you had already asked me this a few months ago and
16 that I had answered in the affirmative at that time that I am already
17 getting ready when the time comes to state my position on the 98 bis.
18 Now you can do it orally. Before you had to do it writing. So I'm going
19 to ask you to give me the adequate time so that I can state my arguments
20 why I consider that the Prosecution failed to prove any of the items in
21 the indictment. For example, for Hrtkovci, there is no attack. It's
22 pointless to discuss anything else if there has been no attack. Yes, of
23 course when we come to that.
24 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] [Previous translation
25 continues] ... you'll do that when the moment comes, but thank you for
1 confirming your intention. This is good news already. Therefore, you
2 have the floor once again.
3 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] The other thing I would like to say
4 is actually just a matter of information. I warned you on a number of
5 occasions, gentlemen, Judges, that various intelligence services were
6 interfering in the proceedings being conducted against me. Of course I
7 did not accuse any of you of directly being instrumentalised in that
8 sense, but there are certain activities around the edges whose objective
9 is to keep me for as long as possible away from the political life in
11 the Serbian Radical Party.
12 You've seen from Carla Del Ponte's book what the reasons were for
13 issuing the indictment against me. You've seen that famous sentence of
14 Zoran Djindjic, "Take Seselj away and don't bring him back again." And
15 then I presented information of the involvement of the British and the US
16 intelligence services in these matters. For example, how Morton
17 Abramowitz, the famous US
18 agency, began to make advances to Aleksandar Vucic and so on. Then I
19 have information which I think, Mr. President, will be of particular
20 interest to you because I'm talking about the involvement of the French
21 intelligence service, one of the most prominent --
22 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] [Previous translation
23 continues] ... [overlapping speakers] ... this.
24 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Again I would like to say that I
25 absolutely believe that this has nothing to do personally with you. It
1 has to do with the French service, the French official policy, and with
2 those who are pulling strings from the rear in this Tribunal. That
3 person is called Arnaud Danjean, and now he has become a member of the
4 European Parliament. For years he was engaged in espionage missions in
5 the Balkans, in Kosovo. From what I hear, they have even named a street
6 after him because they believe him to be worthy of that. And according
7 to the Serbian press, he's a close friend of Nicholas Sarkozy, the
8 president of France
9 ideals. Then we have the Serbian weekly "Nin" which wrote about that.
10 Many other newspapers wrote about that blitz for example. Well, this is
11 something that is being written about right now, because there is
12 testimony by a man who was pretty highly placed in the Montenegrin
13 regime, Ratko Knezevic is talking about meetings of Tomislav Nikolic and
14 Aleksandar Vucic in the Paris Ritz hotel with the king of the Balkan
15 tobacco smugglers Stanko Subotic, Cane, about the role of Arnaud Danjean
16 in these proceedings of trying to come to engage for their purposes some
17 of my associates and to engage the Serbian Radical Party in these
18 matters. So these intelligence services, the French, the American and
19 the US, are involved in this recruitment. This process has vast
20 political implications, and there is a danger here that you three Judges
21 are exposed to.
22 I am not going to talk about what your personal preoccupations
23 may or may not be, but you would need to take care about the perception
24 of the public. It is not enough for you to be exercising justice in the
25 courtroom. Perhaps the three of you are convinced totally that you are
1 implementing justice even if you disagree amongst yourselves, but keep in
2 mind the public must have the impression that justice is being
3 administered truly in the courtroom. All of the Serbian press is writing
4 about this day after day and you can get translations through your
5 services of these articles and so on and so forth to see for yourselves.
6 I assume you are partially informed about previous events, the objective
7 of the Western forces is for me never to return to Serbia again, and then
8 if this cannot be secured, at least for me never to go back again, at
9 least to delay this return as much as possible. Enormous sums of money
10 have been offered to some of my former closest associates. Some of them
11 they did manage to recruit, but they did not manage to break the
12 Serbian Radical Party.
13 Perhaps some would warn you to complete the proceedings as soon
14 as possible had the break-up of the Serbian Radical Party succeeded last
15 year. It did not succeed. Some at the top of the Tribunal are already
16 issuing statements including the President of the Tribunal that the
17 Tribunal simply does not know what to do with me. And if the Tribunal as
18 such does not know what to do with me, I am asking you as three Judges
19 who are personally responsible for the gravity and professionalism of
20 these proceedings call upon you not to be susceptible to any influences
21 from the side and to make sure that the public has the perception that
22 these proceedings are going to be brought to their normal closure so that
23 the proceedings at least have the perception of regularity by being
24 completed within a reasonable period of time. This reasonable period of
25 time has expired a long time ago.
1 Well, when I am talking about a more reasonable period of time,
2 I'm thinking of something that would be more reasonable than the totally
3 unreasonable period of time. That would mean that the proceedings go on
4 for at least another year and a half or so.
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So regarding the second point,
6 i.e., the impact -- or the influence of the secret services on the Judges
7 and the time period concerning your -- the proceedings, you should know
8 that nobody got in touch with us. We have no connections with anyone,
9 and if ever any fool tried to influence the Judges, I would be the first
10 one to disclose that. I can reassure you on this point.
11 You're expecting decisions from the Chamber. We will take the
12 decisions. If you are guilty, we will declare you guilty. If you're
13 innocent, we will declare you innocent, and all this will be based on the
14 evidences presented by the Prosecution and based on the evidence you may
15 also bring here. So you should not be worried.
16 Personally, I have been working in a court for more than
17 30 years, and in an international court for more than six years, and I'm
18 still waiting for someone who would dare say -- think that he can exert
19 any pressure on me. I believe that this will never happen. The Chamber
20 on various occasions has proven to you that it is completely independent
21 from the Prosecution's office, the registrar or yourself or anyone else.
22 Now, you may be worried. This is only legitimate. The fact that
23 you want to go back home is understandable. The fact that you want to
24 continue and play a political role is also normal but all this can only
25 happen only once the Chamber has made a decision and rendered justice.
1 This is what I wanted to say regarding the second point.
2 Any other issue you would like to raise?
3 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I would like to briefly emphasise
4 that I was not suspecting you of connections with the service. What
5 happened here is that it just happened coincidentally that the French
6 intelligence service is also mentioned besides the other two that I
7 mentioned. And you know, Mr. President, that even when I disagree with
8 your positions and confront you, I do not believe even then that you are
9 not behaving honourably. So, so far I have not had any reason to doubt
10 this impression of mine. I also never said of your colleagues that they
11 were behaving dishonourably either. I am just drawing your attention to
12 the broader context in which all of this is taking place, and I am
13 emphasising what even many other second instance judgements at this
14 Tribunal emphasise, that it is not enough for justice to be administered
15 only in the courtroom. We must also make sure that the public has the
16 perception that justice is being administered really in -- and truly in
17 the courtroom. This is very important.
18 And as for Carla Del Ponte, who is a precious witness of mine and
19 who is testifying how the indictment was issued against me, I have
20 nothing to worry about that, and I'm not worried about anything at the
21 moment. I would be worried and concerned if I were to know in my heart
22 that there was a possibility of me being linked with any war crimes. In
23 that case I would be concerned. But since I am convinced that there is
24 no possibility -- and in this situation I'm also achieving some sort of
25 historical role of mine. This is something -- these proceedings before
1 The Hague Tribunal are going to be remembered no matter how they end.
2 They will be remembered indeed already by a number of things. It is
3 different from any other proceedings and you are aware of that
4 yourselves, starting from the staff of the Tribunal who are scratching
5 their heads the minute my name is mentioned and on.
6 Everybody in a way is impressed, some by the difficulties that
7 they're having to face by working on this case, some by the troubles they
8 are experiencing holding me in the Scheveningen gaol, or the Dutch police
9 who are transporting me and so on and so forth. This particular process
10 is already very deeply rooted in the history of international criminal
11 law, and it will not fail to become part of all the law books. And even
12 if I die tomorrow, I would have achieved a very important historical
13 role. So I have no reason to worry.
14 Of course, as for my private reasons, you know that I have never
15 referred to them in the courtroom, and I'm not going to do that now.
16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Fair enough. You have dealt
17 with all the issues on the agenda. I now would like to give the floor to
18 the Prosecution.
19 Mr. Seselj, I would like to tell you as far as the future dates
20 are concerned that I cannot for the time being give you any specific
21 date, because September is a very busy month. We have six trials going
22 on right now, and my colleague will be starting a new trial too.
23 Therefore, the -- looking at the calendar this morning, I was not able
24 to -- I'm not able to tell you that we would meet on that or that date.
25 We could meet at 8.00 some morning because we could very well have a
1 meeting at 8.00 in the morning. Very often I am here at 6.00 in the
2 morning, so if need be we could have an early-morning session.
3 Otherwise, I would like to draw the attention of the Registry on this
4 point so as to book a day in October, the beginning of October, so that
5 we meet and take stock of the situation. This is what I wanted to tell
6 you concerning the future session.
7 Mr. Mundis, anything you would like to add?
8 MR. MUNDIS: Thank you, Mr. President. The Prosecution has
9 nothing further to add, but I would like to take this opportunity to
10 alert the Trial Chamber to the fact that this is likely to be the last
11 time I appear in this case. I will be leaving the Tribunal on Friday of
12 this week. It is likely that I will be back for a short period of time
13 later in the fall on a special project, but it is unlikely that I will be
14 appearing before the Chamber, and I wanted to take this opportunity to
15 thank the Trial Chamber for its attention throughout the past period of
16 time that I've appeared before Your Honours.
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Fair enough, Mr. Mundis. I
18 just heard that you're going to leave us, and all I can do is on behalf
19 of all my colleagues wish you well in your future professional life, and
20 I hope it will be very successful and to the best of your interests, and
21 it is true that lately several people have been leaving the court as --
22 the Tribunal. As you know, this Tribunal will disappear soon. The
23 Security Council has renewed the terms of reference of the Judges for
24 this case until the completion of this case, but it is obvious that when
25 all the cases have been judged, all these -- the Tribunal will disappear,
1 and I understand that all those working in this Tribunal are trying to
2 find a position elsewhere, and I hope they will be able to continue their
3 career in the future. And as you know, our best wishes accompany you,
4 and I hope that your colleagues will, nevertheless, stay with us, because
5 if everybody leaves the Tribunal, I do not know who will be sitting on
6 the other side of the bar.
7 That's what I wanted to say.
8 Mr. Seselj, this is the end of today's session. I give you the
10 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Just a few words in conclusion.
11 Since I see that the Prosecution is disintegrating from within, true
12 chaos is beginning to reign there. I have to say that I'm facing chaos
13 in my own Defence team, although not for internal reasons but for outside
14 reasons. To this day my two legal advisors have been suspended in a way.
15 Zoran Krasic still has no access to confidential documents. I do not
16 have privileged communication with Slavko Jerkovic, so I have no
17 privileged, secure line to my associates, and in this way they have been
18 practically suspended for completely arbitrary reasons because there is
19 no evidence that they violated the rules of conduct.
20 I must draw your attention that if the trial does continue, this
21 issue has to be resolved, too, and my cooperation with my legal advisors
22 has to be restored.
23 As of September last year, I have been unable to have privileged
24 communication with them on a secure telephone line. They did come to
25 visit me once but it was in a sort of gas chamber in Scheveningen,
1 observed by cameras.
2 A new legal advisor is visiting me, Boris Aleksic, and another
3 associate, Marina Raguz, from time to time. I have also a new legal
4 advisor, Dejan Mirovic. But I cannot normally function without
5 Zoran Krasic and Slavko Jerkovic. Not the way I would like to. Of
6 course I can cope even if you deprive me of all my associates. If you
7 isolate me completely I will still be superior to the Prosecution, but I
8 cannot be as efficient as I would like to.
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] On this point should we
10 consider that you are once again asking the Chamber to reconsider its
11 decision regarding Mr. Krasic's suspension, Zoran Krasic, as a privileged
12 colleague? Is that what you're asking us, to reconsider our decision?
13 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes.
14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Okay. So this is what you're
15 asking. And as you know, the Registrar was the one who suspended --
16 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] [Previous translation continues]
17 ... [overlapping speakers] ... I need a secure line with him, a
18 privileged line.
19 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Fair enough. Regarding
20 Mr. Jerkovic, we would like to be able to have a secure line with him. I
21 checked that on the transcript to make sure it is mentioned.
22 Fair enough. The Chamber will meet tomorrow and we will study
23 all these points.
24 Regarding your request or the two requests of Mr. Seselj about
25 Krasic and Jerkovic, Mr. Mundis, anything you would like to add?
1 MR. MUNDIS: Your Honours, perhaps the Prosecution might make a
2 brief written submission on that point. It's -- I'm not in a position at
3 this stage to indicate what our views might be on the matter, but we will
4 certainly do so in writing if we have anything that we think needs to be
5 put before the Trial Chamber.
6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Fair enough. I'll check with
7 my colleagues to see how much time we can give you.
8 [Trial Chamber confers]
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The Chamber will give you one
10 week to prepare this.
11 MR. MUNDIS: Thank you, Your Honours.
12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] As I said, since we have dealt
13 with all the issues on the agenda, we will now adjourn the meeting and I
14 wish you all a very nice afternoon.
15 --- Whereupon the Status Conference adjourned
16 at 3.02 p.m.