1 Monday, 8th November, 1999
2 --- Upon commencing at 9 a.m.
3 [Open session]
4 [Initial Appearance]
5 [The accused entered court]
6 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Let the Registrar call the
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning Your Honour.
9 Case number IT-95-8-I, the Prosecutor versus Damir
11 JUDGE MAY: Yes. The appearances.
12 MR. NIEMANN: Please Your Honour, my name is
13 Niemann. I appear with my colleague, Mr. Kapila
14 Waidyaratne, and the case manager, Patrica Reynders.
15 MR. PETROVIC: My name is Vladimir Petrovic.
16 I am an attorney from Belgrade and I represent
17 Mr. Dosen in this case.
18 JUDGE MAY: This is the adjourned initial
19 appearance of this accused, adjourned from last week.
20 The amended indictment was confirmed in this case on
21 the 30th of August of this year.
22 Mr. Petrovic, I take it that your client has
23 received a copy of the amended indictment in a language
24 which he understands and that you've had the
25 opportunity of going through it with him? Counsel who
1 was here last week undertook to do that; is that
3 MR. PETROVIC: That is right, Your Honour.
4 My client received a copy of the indictment in Serbian
5 language. We had an opportunity to read through it
6 entirely. Mr. Dosen has understood the indictment. He
7 understands what he is charged with and he is prepared
8 to make a plea today on all the charges in the
10 JUDGE MAY: Very well. The final matter is
11 this, before we deal with the indictment: Does he wish
12 to have the indictment read out in full or is he
13 prepared to waive that right? As you know, there is a
14 right to have the indictment read out in full, but
15 frequently it's waived to save time.
16 MR. PETROVIC: I spoke to Mr. Dosen regarding
17 this matter. It is sufficient that only the counts be
18 read out without reading the indictment in its
19 entirety. Thank you.
20 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Thank you. Let the accused
22 Mr. Dosen, you've heard what your counsel has
23 said, that you've had the indictment in a language you
24 understand. You've been through it with him, and you
25 are in a position to enter pleas today; is that right?
1 THE ACCUSED: Yes, it is.
2 JUDGE MAY: Now, I am going to read to you
3 the counts in the indictment, and to each you must
4 enter a plea. Kindly confine your answers to "guilty"
5 or "not guilty."
6 The first three counts relate to alleged
7 offences between the 24th of May and the 30th of August
8 1992 in Keraterm Camp. Count 1: Persecutions on
9 political, racial or religious grounds, crime against
10 humanity, punishable under Articles 5(h), 7(1) and 7(3)
11 of the Statute of the Tribunal. How do you plead,
12 guilty or not guilty?
13 THE ACCUSED: No, not guilty.
14 JUDGE MAY: Count 2: Inhumane acts, a crime
15 against humanity, punishable under Articles 5(i), 7(1),
16 7(3) of the Statute. How do you plead, guilty or not
18 THE ACCUSED: Not guilty.
19 JUDGE MAY: Count 3: Outrages upon personal
20 dignity, violations of the laws or customs of war as
21 recognised by Article (3)(a)(c) of the Geneva
22 Conventions of 1949, punishable under Articles 3, 7(1)
23 and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal. How do you
24 plead, guilty or not guilty?
25 THE ACCUSED: Not guilty.
1 JUDGE MAY: Counts 4 to 7 relate to alleged
2 offences on or about the 25th of June 1992 in room 2 of
3 the camp. Count 4: Torture, a crime against humanity,
4 punishable under Articles 5(f), 7(1) and 7(3) of the
5 Statute. How do you plead, guilty or not guilty?
6 THE ACCUSED: Not guilty.
7 JUDGE MAY: Count 5: Torture, a violation of
8 the laws or customs of war recognised by Article
9 (3)(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, punishable
10 under Articles 3, 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute. How do
11 you plead, guilty or not guilty?
12 THE ACCUSED: Not guilty.
13 JUDGE MAY: Count 6: Inhumane acts, a crime
14 against humanity punishable under Articles 5(i), 7(1)
15 and 7(3) of the Statute. How do you plead, guilty or
16 not guilty?
17 THE ACCUSED: Not guilty.
18 JUDGE MAY: Count 7: Cruel treatment, a
19 violation of the laws or customs of war recognised by
20 Article (3)(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions of 1949
21 punishable under Articles 3, 7(1) and 7(3) of the
22 Statute. How do you plead, guilty or not guilty?
23 THE ACCUSED: Not guilty.
24 JUDGE MAY: Yes. You may be seated.
25 THE ACCUSED: Thank you.
1 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Niemann, that concludes the
2 putting the indictment.
3 MR. NIEMANN: Yes, Your Honour.
4 JUDGE MAY: This matter, clearly, is in no
5 position at the moment to proceed, but it may be
6 sensible to do what we can, if anything.
7 MR. NIEMANN: Yes, Your Honour.
8 JUDGE MAY: The accused -- the defence have
9 had all the material, have they?
10 MR. NIEMANN: The confirmation material has
11 been disclosed, Your Honour, yes.
12 JUDGE MAY: There is another accused, of
13 course, on this indictment.
14 MR. NIEMANN: Yes, Your Honour.
15 JUDGE MAY: How do you propose to go on from
17 MR. NIEMANN: Well, Your Honours, it would be
18 our submission that the matters should proceed together
19 and that on all next occasions when the other accused
20 is to come before the Tribunal, so should this accused,
21 and the matter to proceed that way.
22 I don't know at this stage what the position
23 is with respect to when a hearing of the matter
24 involving the accused Kolundzija will proceed, but I
25 would imagine it would be sometime after the Kvocka
1 case, Your Honour, so I think it may be some time. But
2 we are in a position to make available the material in
3 a reasonably timely manner and -- because both the
4 cases are prepared for trial. So we can proceed rather
5 quickly in that regard.
6 JUDGE MAY: What is the extent of this case?
7 There are seven counts. How many witnesses are we
8 looking at?
9 MR. NIEMANN: Excuse me, Your Honour. I can
10 say it this way, Your Honour. Probably about 50 to 60
11 witnesses. The position is that the evidence is
12 identical to the evidence that will be led against the
13 accused Zigic in the other case and the accused
14 Kolundzija and this accused, Your Honour. So it is the
15 same evidence exactly in relation to the three
16 accused. And we think about 50, 60 witnesses, Your
18 JUDGE MAY: So, what is that, four months for
19 the Prosecution? Something of that order?
20 MR. NIEMANN: A month, I think -- yes, I
21 would imagine six weeks probably to dispose the
22 Prosecution case, Your Honour.
23 JUDGE MAY: Well, there will be a hearing in
24 the case of the co-accused, I anticipate, certainly in
25 January. I shall make some inquiries about that.
1 Yes, there is no date at the moment for a
2 Status Conference for the co-accused, but I anticipate
3 there will be one towards the end of January, and it
4 would be sensible for this accused to appear at the
5 same time.
6 MR. NIEMANN: Yes, we would suggest that,
7 Your Honour.
8 JUDGE MAY: It may require further amendments
9 to the indictment? You have to produce a joint
11 MR. NIEMANN: I think the indictment has in
12 fact been joined. There is a process, complicated as
13 it is, but they were served individually, but there in
14 fact exists one joint indictment.
15 JUDGE MAY: Yes, but there are other people
17 MR. NIEMANN: They can't proceed to trial,
19 JUDGE MAY: So at some stage we shall need a
20 new indictment on just these two?
21 MR. NIEMANN: Yes, Your Honour.
22 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Well, thank you very much.
23 Is there anything else we can usefully do today?
24 MR. NIEMANN: I don't think so.
25 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Petrovic, you've heard what's
1 suggested. This matter will have to proceed with the
2 co-accused. There is a Status Conference in his case
3 which will have to be fixed in January, and it would
4 seem sensible for this accused to appear at the same
6 MR. PETROVIC: Yes, indeed it does seem
7 sensible. The only thing I would like to inquire is
8 whether there will be a formal request on the part of
9 the Prosecution to join the indictments, that is the
10 indictments of Kolundzija and Dosen. That is one
12 Secondly, I have received some statements
13 that it was about seven or eight witness statements. I
14 would like to know whether this is the entire
15 supporting material, whether I can consider that all
16 the supporting material has been produced and whether
17 from now on the clock is running as far as the
18 preliminary motions are concerned on the part of the
20 JUDGE MAY: Well, from what the Prosecution
21 have said, the answer to that question is yes.
22 Clearly, some sort of joint indictment also will have
23 to be produced so that the two can be tried together.
24 Your client did not appear last week because
25 he was suffering from an injury sustained playing
1 volleyball, as I understand it. He is now recovered,
2 is he?
3 MR. PETROVIC: Yes, that is correct. That is
4 correct. And today he -- since he still has pains in
5 his back and he -- it was with some effort that he
6 arrived in the Court today, because he is still in pain
7 when they put on his flak jacket.
8 JUDGE MAY: Is there anything else you want
9 to raise, Mr. Petrovic?
10 MR. PETROVIC: No, not really, except that if
11 the Prosecution would specify whether this was the
12 entire supporting material so far and whether the time
13 for the preliminary motions is running as of today.
14 MR. NIEMANN: That's right, Your Honour.
15 That is correct.
16 JUDGE MAY: Yes is the answer, as I thought.
17 Mr. Dosen, would you stand up, please. That
18 concludes the initial appearance. As you've heard,
19 there are various preliminary matters which have to be
20 covered, various steps which have to be taken before
21 your case will be ready for trial, and you will appear
22 with your co-accused at a date which is to be fixed in
23 January, which will be your next Court appearance.
24 JUDGE MAY: Very well. We'll adjourn until
1 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at
2 9.18 a.m. sine die.