1 Thursday, 9 May 2002
2 [Closed session]
12 Pages 7689-7766 – redacted – closed session
12 [Open session]
13 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes, we are in open session,, so Mr. Pantelic, you
14 can proceed.
15 MR. PANTELIC: Thank you, Your Honour. I have informed my
16 colleagues from the Prosecution about the documents in question.
17 According to my list here, first document is D2/1 ID and D2/1 ter ID. The
18 title is "Instruction from the Party of Democratic Action to SDA," dated
19 20 of January, 1993, during the -- well, during the cross-examination of
20 Dr. Donia I submitted that.
21 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. Yes. The Prosecution, we now have the English
23 MS. REIDY: Your Honour, I'm afraid that is not one of the
24 translations that was handed to me by Defence counsel. I do have another
25 SDA document, dated the 20th of September, 1991. And the other document,
1 D2/1 ID, as far as I can see from my pile here, was not disclosed. So we
2 haven't double-checked on it, but I know that with a number of these
3 documents, which are purported to come from the Party of Democratic
4 Action, that --
5 JUDGE MUMBA: No, no. The point is, do you have D2/1 ID?
6 MS. REIDY: No.
7 JUDGE MUMBA: D2/1 ter ID? You don't have that?
8 MS. REIDY: No, Your Honour, I don't.
9 JUDGE MUMBA: Can we deal with the next document? You can deal
10 with that later on. Can we deal with the next one?
11 MR. PANTELIC: Yes, of course. My case manager informed me that
12 it was delivered to the Prosecution a while ago. But no problem.
13 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. Maybe they will check later.
14 MR. PANTELIC: Yes. Next document is D3/1 ID, and also D3/1 ter
15 ID, which is in the file. That is the excerpt from dictionary about the
16 definition of word "Vakuf," from Croatian dictionary of following words
17 published in 1982.
18 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes, Ms. Reidy.
19 MS. REIDY: Your Honour, we do have that and we have no objection
20 to its full admission into evidence.
21 JUDGE MUMBA: Thank you. Can we have the confirmation that it
22 will retain the same number now as an exhibit?
23 MR. PANTELIC: Now as an exhibit, yes.
24 JUDGE MUMBA: That is D3/1 and --
25 MR. PANTELIC: ID.
1 JUDGE MUMBA: ID. D3/1 ter as well.
2 MR. PANTELIC: I have English translation here with me.
3 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, maybe I'm a little bit confused, but
4 on D3/1 ID and D3/1 ter ID, we have already both documents, one B/C/S and
5 the translation.
6 MR. PANTELIC: Sorry. I can explain. That's unofficial
7 translation, which we used at the beginning of our trial proceedings and
8 then according to the ruling of this Trial Chamber we proceeded with the
9 official translation. So that's the reason why you have this
10 unofficial -- you can disregard.
11 Mr. Usher --
12 JUDGE MUMBA: Can we have the, yes, official translation.
13 MR. PANTELIC: Thank you. May I proceed, Your Honour?
14 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes.
15 MR. PANTELIC: Now I have the Exhibit D4/1 ID, already submitted
16 D4/1 ter ID, this is a cover page of Muslim newspaper published in October
17 1991, titled, "New walks", Novi vox, and I have English translation of
18 this cover, front page.
19 JUDGE MUMBA: The Prosecution.
20 MS. REIDY: Your Honour, we do have that document. However, we do
21 have questions about it being entered into evidence, because it was put to
22 the witness, Mr. Robert Donia, Dr. Robert Donia, who simply said that he
23 was not familiar at all with this publication.
24 JUDGE MUMBA: Okay.
25 MS. REIDY: If you could see the document, it seems to have
1 absolutely no relevancy whatsoever to do with this case and on the grounds
2 that it doesn't meet any of the criteria of 89(C), we don't see that it
3 should be admitted into evidence. As I said, it wasn't something that the
4 witness was familiar with and there was nothing I could divine from the
5 transcript that could prove it was in any way relevant.
6 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. Perhaps counsel could deal with that during
7 the Defence case.
8 MR. PANTELIC: Yes, but I have certain explanation now, Your
9 Honour, if you wish.
10 JUDGE MUMBA: All right.
11 MR. PANTELIC: In fact, this document was tendered into evidence
12 with regard to the general context of Bosnia, where supposedly and
13 allegedly Dr. Donia is familiar. So it's a relation between three ethnic
14 communities, and about the rise of the interethnic tensions.
15 JUDGE MUMBA: When was it entered into evidence, because you say
16 it was already --
17 MR. PANTELIC: Offered. Sorry.
18 JUDGE MUMBA: Okay. It was offered by the Defence.
19 MR. PANTELIC: By the Defence.
20 JUDGE MUMBA: It was used during cross-examination?
21 MR. PANTELIC: That's correct. In this broader context of Bosnia
22 history. Well, Dr. Donia is supposed to be an expert. So if --
23 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes, but he did say that he was not familiar with
24 it, as Ms. Reidy says. So if you still want it, you can call a witness
25 who is familiar and who shows the relevance of the document.
1 MR. PANTELIC: Yes, Your Honour. I understand.
2 Then we have D5/1 ID, which is the extract from Official Gazette
3 of socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, constitutional
4 amendments, that we have discussed also with Mr. Donia, according to my
6 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes, Ms. Reidy.
7 MS. REIDY: Yes, Your Honour. Again we do have that document. We
8 do, however, have a query. The document which has been given to the
9 translation, the whole document, D5/1 does not seem to be part of the --
10 it seems to consist of two documents, and only one part of it was put to
11 the witness. And we have -- okay. It's up to -- we have no--
12 JUDGE MUMBA: But it's the amendments which even the Court can
13 even take judicial notice of except when you have the document in front of
14 you it's much easier to refer to it.
15 MS. REIDY: We have no particular objection if relevance could be
16 established later.
17 JUDGE MUMBA: All right. Can we have the numbers confirmed.
18 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honours. The numbers will remain the
19 same except for the ID, so as to become exhibits. Thank you.
20 JUDGE MUMBA: Thank you.
21 MR. PANTELIC: Mr. Usher, please. I have English translations
22 with me. If you don't mind.
23 Then -- can I proceed, Your Honour?
24 JUDGE MUMBA: Can we deal with this one first of all?
25 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
1 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes, you can proceed, Mr. Pantelic.
2 MR. PANTELIC: Then we have Exhibit D8/1 ID. These are
3 translation, official translation in English. Articles 274 and 275 of the
4 constitution of Bosnia and Herzegovina, titled, "Cooperation and
5 association of municipalities."
6 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes: The Prosecution.
7 MS. REIDY: We have know objection, and also just to speed things
8 up, I believe the next exhibit we don't have any objection to either. It
9 will be D9/1.
10 JUDGE MUMBA: Can we have confirmation. D8/1 and D8/1 ter, they
11 will retain the same numbers as exhibits?
12 THE REGISTRAR: That's correct, Your Honour.
13 JUDGE MUMBA: And the next [Microphone not activated] the same
14 numbers will apply this time as exhibits.
15 THE REGISTRAR: That is correct, Your Honours.
16 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. Any other documents?
17 MR. PANTELIC: Yes. D9/1 ID. This is part 4, chapter 4, of the
18 constitution of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Article 416, official English
20 Mr. Usher, please, could I have your assistance.
21 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. The next one?
22 MR. PANTELIC: The next one is the D15/1 ID, document of HVO
23 Croatian operative group eastern Posavina, command of the Croatian army,
24 Slavonski Brod, dated 28th of May 1992.
25 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. Does the Prosecution have that one?
1 MS. REIDY: Your Honour, I'm a little bit confused. I have a
2 document which was handed to me as D15/1 and dated from the 28th of May,
3 1992, which I believe is the date that Mr. Pantelic read out, although
4 it's not currently recorded in the transcript. But my document says it's
5 from the 102nd Odzak Brigade, and mentions nothing about Slavonski Brod or
6 eastern Posavina, so I don't believe --
7 JUDGE MUMBA: It may not be the same document maybe.
8 JUDGE WILLIAMS: Although, Ms. Reidy, I'm just looking at the list
9 of exhibits, and D15/1 is listed as document of HVO Croatian operative
10 group eastern Posavina, command of the Croatian army, Slavonski Brod.
11 MS. REIDY: Well, Your Honour, maybe then that's where it's coming
12 from, but the document that I was handed by Defence counsel as what they
13 call Exhibit D15/1 doesn't bear the same --
14 JUDGE MUMBA: Title.
15 MS. REIDY: -- title. So that's -- I don't know which document
16 now Mr. Pantelic is moving to have into evidence as 15/1.
17 MR. PANTELIC: Yes. I have here in the list the title which I
18 just read.
19 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. Maybe the usher can assist. If counsel -- the
20 English translation you have, if you can -- the one you've just given us
21 the title, if the usher can show it to the Prosecution or give them a
22 copy, we can clear this problem.
23 Yes, Ms. Reidy. Is it --
24 MS. REIDY: It appears to be the same document, so maybe the
25 recording of it in the list of Prosecution's is not correct, because at
1 the time we didn't have a full translation. Maybe that's -- I'm
2 speculating now as to why on the exhibit list it is given a different
3 title, if this is the same document.
4 JUDGE MUMBA: No. It's better for you to be sure. We can deal
5 with this at a later stage if you check through the Prosecution's
6 documents and the list of exhibits we've been given from time to time, so
7 that, you know, you are definite as to which document you are discussing
8 at any time.
9 MR. PANTELIC: Maybe I can be of assistance, Your Honour. Can I
10 check B/C/S version, which is actually --
11 JUDGE MUMBA: With the Registry.
12 MR. PANTELIC: With the Registry and then we could see if it fits
13 to the translation.
14 JUDGE MUMBA: Can the usher please assist with ...
15 MR. PANTELIC: Yes. I see what is the problem here, Your Honour,
16 if I may. The title of this document in the Registry's list here is
17 actually the stamp, the stamp on the document, and all other elements are
18 the same with the official translation. What I will do now, we could --
19 you can check, of course, if it's necessary. Everything is the same. But
20 on the other hand, the idea of the Defence was to be focused on this
21 stamp. So maybe in the -- or maybe I can leave it for now and then try to
22 obtain official translation of the stamp, which is also very important
23 element of this document. And then I will tender into evidence.
24 JUDGE MUMBA: Oh, yes. Maybe we can --
25 MR. PANTELIC: Maybe it's better, in order not to have two
1 documents -- two translations about one document.
2 JUDGE MUMBA: All right. So you'll deal with that at a later
4 MR. PANTELIC: Yes. Thank you. Now it's D16/1 ter ID. This is
5 the communication section, attachment number 6 of the SDA armed formation
6 in Bosanski Samac. They are sections. Very often we discussed that
8 JUDGE MUMBA: So you now have the English translation.
9 MR. PANTELIC: Yes, I have, of this attachment number 6.
10 MS. REIDY: Your Honour, we do have that document, and again, just
11 so we speed up, the next exhibit, D17/1, is of a similar nature. Both of
12 those documents, we would object still to their full admission into
13 evidence, because the witnesses with whom they've been discussed know
14 nothing about the documents, there's no element of authentication. It may
15 be when a further witness comes, either from the Prosecution side or
16 Defence, it could be authenticated. Mr. Tihic didn't know anything about
17 these, so our position still is that they remain ID documents until we can
18 have someone who says what they're about or where they came from.
19 JUDGE MUMBA: All right. Yes. There appears to be a difference
20 in the designation of the document in the lists we have been given, so I
21 think the safer thing is for both parties to check the transcript. Then
22 we can deal with these documents at a later stage.
23 MR. PANTELIC: You mean the rest of the documents?
24 JUDGE WILLIAMS: D16/1 ter and 17/1 and ter. Because it seems
25 from the list we've got that they were actually admitted into evidence on
1 25th of the 10, 01. In the list we have there's no reference to ID, so
2 there seems to be a bit of confusion here.
3 MR. PANTELIC: Oh, yes. I agree. It was admitted and just we
4 wait for the official translation. So that's the situation.
5 JUDGE MUMBA: All right. We'll wait until the Prosecution also
6 can check the transcript. We can deal with that later.
7 MR. PANTELIC: Yes, of course. It was admitted, we also believe.
8 Now I have Exhibit D18/1 ter, which is a handmade drawing by the
9 witness Muhamed Bicic, as marked by the witness, position A, B, et cetera.
10 Mr. Usher, please. Or can we hear from --
11 JUDGE MUMBA: On that document, if it was drawn by the witness,
12 then we were waiting for the English translation.
13 MR. PANTELIC: Yes. And now we have it.
14 JUDGE MUMBA: The Prosecution.
15 MS. REIDY: Yes, we have it, and the same applies for the next
16 exhibit, 19/1. Again, to speed things up, we have no objection to 18/1 or
18 JUDGE MUMBA: All right.
19 MR. PANTELIC: This is D18, and -- if I understood well. And
20 please, Mr. Usher. And This is D19/1, which is also a sketch of
21 Mr. Ibrahim Salkic, of the secondary school gym.
22 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. Can we have confirmation that they retain the
23 same numbers as exhibits?
24 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honours, they will retain the same
25 numbers but now as exhibits. Thank you.
1 JUDGE MUMBA: Thank you.
2 Yes, the next document.
3 MR. PANTELIC: The next document is D20/1 ter ID, a letter from
4 SDA party, headquarters Sarajevo, titled "Information of full readiness
5 of connection and following of SDA," dated 20th of September, 1991. Two
6 pages of letters and four pages of additional information.
7 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes, Ms. Reidy. Do you have that document?
8 MS. REIDY: Yes, Your Honours, we do have that document. And
9 again, this document we'd ask to -- retains ID status. It was put to
10 Mr. Tihic on the 8th of November, 19 - I'm sorry, 2001 - and the witness
11 had never seen it before, had no knowledge of it, and couldn't say
12 anything about the document. So --
13 JUDGE MUMBA: All right. Yes. The Defence can deal with that.
14 MS. REIDY: Thank you.
15 JUDGE MUMBA: -- in their case.
16 MR. PANTELIC: All right. And the last one is the document D21/1
17 ID, announcement -- title is "Announcement. List of domestic traitors."
18 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. The Prosecution, you have the English
20 MS. REIDY: I'm sorry, Your Honour. Yes, we do have that
21 document, and it was put to Mr. Tihic, who was able to comment on it, so
22 we have no objection to its entry into evidence.
23 JUDGE MUMBA: All right. Can we have confirmation that it will
24 retain the same number?
25 THE REGISTRAR: That is correct, Your Honours.
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
1 MR. PANTELIC: Mr. Usher, please.
2 JUDGE MUMBA: Ms. Reidy, you have something to say?
3 MS. REIDY: Yes. Just again, to save everyone trouble, I just
4 looked at the notes I had written on the documents, because I had checked
5 the transcripts, and Her Honour Judge Williams is correct. Those two
6 documents -- other documents of that nature are ter, but 16 --
7 JUDGE MUMBA: And 17.
8 MS. REIDY: Yes. 16 and 17, which were, I think, the Hunter
9 [phoen] section, the communications at the time were led
10 into evidence, and we can argue as to whether or not they should be given
11 any weight. But they were at the time entered into evidence, and we, of
12 course, stand by that.
13 JUDGE MUMBA: All right. Okay. So that sorts out 16
14 and 17. Yes.
15 Any other document, Mr. Pantelic?
16 MR. PANTELIC: I have for D16/1 and D17/1, English translation.
17 JUDGE MUMBA: The English translation.
18 MR. PANTELIC: Mr. Usher, please.
19 And actually, that's the end of my list of the translated
20 documents for now.
21 JUDGE MUMBA: All right. Thank you.
22 MR. ZECEVIC: Your Honours --
23 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes, Mr. Zecevic.
24 MR. ZECEVIC: I wonder -- if it pleases the Court, I
25 have also a couple of documents which are under no objection, as far as I
1 was told by my colleagues from the Prosecutor.
2 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes.
3 MR. ZECEVIC: It's one of the documents which just -- I just
4 received the translation, and it is a document D23/2 ter ID. It is a
5 salary scale for clerks, typists, couriers, delivering summonses and
6 couriers who work on organisation of work in work brigade.
7 Mr. Usher.
8 I believe that there is no objection to this, to the admittance of
9 this document
10 MS. REIDY: No. I can confirm that. The Prosecution has no
12 MR. ZECEVIC: Thank you.
13 Mr. Usher. Thank you.
14 JUDGE MUMBA: So we have D23/2 now as an exhibit. Yes.
15 MR. ZECEVIC: Yes.
16 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. The next one.
17 MR. ZECEVIC: I'm waiting for confirmation by the registry if
18 something is wrong.
19 JUDGE MUMBA: Okay. Can we have confirmation, please?
20 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour. It is D23/2 ter. Thank you.
21 MR. ZECEVIC: I'm sorry. If I may, Your Honours. It might be
22 much better if we clarify the situation right now. This is an English
23 version, so it should be D23/2, without "ter." I'm sorry.
24 THE REGISTRAR: That is correct. I apologise. D23/2. Thank you.
25 MR. ZECEVIC: Thank you.
1 Your Honours, there is another seven documents which have already
2 been given -- the official translation has been given to the registry.
3 The Prosecutor does not have any objection to this, and according to the
4 list which I have in front of me, which was provided by the registry, it
5 says that the decision not yet taken as to its admission. It is probably
6 my fault that while I was introducing the evidence, I didn't ask
7 them to be entered into the evidence.
8 JUDGE MUMBA: All right.
9 MR. ZECEVIC: So I'm using this opportunity to move this Trial
10 Chamber, so if we can -- if I can go through the list, then --
11 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes.
12 MR. ZECEVIC: -- ask for this document to be admitted. And I will
13 read and then --
14 JUDGE MUMBA: The Prosecution can check.
15 MR. ZECEVIC: -- I will ask Ms. Reidy to confirm that they don't
16 have any objections.
17 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. If you can go through the whole list, and then
18 she can confirm at once.
19 MR. ZECEVIC: Yes. Okay. This is document D11/2 and D11/2 ter.
20 Then the second document is D14/2 and D14/2 ter. Then D15/2 and D15/2
21 ter. Further, D16/2 ter and D16/2. And further, D17/2 and D17/2 ter.
22 Then D18/2 and D18/2 ter. And the last one, D19/2 ter and D19/2.
23 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. Ms. Reidy.
24 MS. REIDY: I can confirm. We have no objection.
25 JUDGE MUMBA: No objection. All right.
1 Can we just confirm that the documents will retain the same
2 numbers but as exhibits?
3 THE REGISTRAR: That is correct, Your Honours.
4 MR. ZECEVIC: Thank you, Your Honours.
5 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. Any other matters?
6 We'll adjourn the proceedings until tomorrow at 1415 hours.
7 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 6.44 p.m.,
8 to be reconvened on Friday, the 10th day of May,
9 2002, at 2.15 p.m.