1 Tuesday, 9 July 2000
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.10 a.m.
5 JUDGE MUMBA: Please call the case.
6 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. Case number
7 IT-95-9-T, the Prosecutor versus Blagoje Simic, Miroslav Tadic, and
8 Simo Zaric. Thank you.
9 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. The Prosecution.
10 MS. REIDY: Good morning, Your Honours. I'm not aware whether or
11 not the Bench have been advised, but this morning I received a message
12 that Witness A, who was on the stand yesterday, had what was described to
13 me as a turn during the night. It was initially, I understand, considered
14 to be, or suspected to be, a heart attack. That was not the case. He was
15 taken to hospital and the tests were carried out. He was returned to
16 where he's staying at the moment, but he was not very well later on during
17 the night.
18 So the information I have is that he has been taken to see a
19 doctor this morning or a doctor is visiting him to give him a general
20 check-up and assess how he is. This witness has had health complications
21 stemming from his detention period, and I don't know whether that's
22 something in connection with that which has been sparked off. But that is
23 the information we have, and he is not going to be available to testify
24 this morning because of his health, and until I guess the doctor sees him
25 and we hear another report, it's not clear to us when he'll be able to
1 resume his testimony. But it's just, as I said, we just don't have the
2 information as to how serious it is because the doctor is, I believe,
3 either with him now or will be with him later during the morning.
4 JUDGE MUMBA: Very well. The Trial Chamber was informed just
5 before coming into court by the registry assistant that the witness would
6 not be available this morning because of illness. And since we -- we
7 would have to wait until the doctor sees the witness and decides whether
8 or not he's fit to continue with the evidence, we wanted to find out
9 whether there are any other witnesses available.
10 MS. REIDY: We don't have another witness available immediately
11 because we had not anticipated this happening last night. There is a
12 possibility of trying to get in contact with Ms. Ewa Tabeau and to see
13 whether she would be available, but the other witnesses, other crime-base
14 or fact witnesses, are due only to arrive in today, so they're not here
16 JUDGE MUMBA: Now, if Ms. Ewa Tabeau is available, I want to find
17 out from the Defence whether at such -- with the turn of events, they
18 would be ready to receive her testimony.
19 MR. PANTELIC: Your Honour, can we have a second just for
20 consultation --
21 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes.
22 MR. PANTELIC: -- because it's a new moment for us.
23 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes.
24 [Defence counsel confer]
25 MR. PANTELIC: Yes, Your Honour. My colleagues just advised me
1 that, in fact, all of us will be ready for cross-examination of this
2 witness, and we could not proceed because we don't have any papers. It's
3 an expert witness. We have certain sources. So I don't think that today
4 we could proceed with Ewa Tabeau, in light of the fact that -- of the
5 importance of that expert testimony and, on the other hand, we have to
6 collect -- these papers are not with us at the moment. So that's a
7 problem, Your Honour.
8 JUDGE MUMBA: All right, then. We'll adjourn and await
9 information from the Prosecution on the status of the witness before the
10 end of the morning, and I would advise the parties to be around. In case
11 the witness is fit enough to continue, then we shall continue with the
13 MS. REIDY: Your Honour, should the medical advice be that the
14 witness rest for a day or two, would you like us to put into place
15 arrangements so that Ms. Ewa Tabeau could take the stand tomorrow morning?
16 JUDGE MUMBA: I think you can discuss that with the Defence.
17 MR. PANTELIC: I can respond. No problem for tomorrow, Your
18 Honour. No problem for Ms. Ewa Tabeau for tomorrow.
19 JUDGE MUMBA: For tomorrow.
20 MR. PANTELIC: No problem.
21 JUDGE MUMBA: All right. However, we'll adjourn for now, awaiting
22 for final information on the status of the health of the witness.
23 --- Recess taken at 9.18 a.m.
24 --- On resuming at 12.05 p.m.
25 JUDGE MUMBA: The Trial Chamber would like to know what is the
1 status now of the witness.
2 MR. DI FAZIO: Yes. If Your Honours please, I've spoken to a
3 representative of the Victims and Witnesses Unit. They inform me that a
4 doctor was able to see him, and I understand that the witness suffered
5 from some sort of respiratory attack that apparently is the result of the
6 injuries he suffered and also -- in the past, and also the change in
7 temperature between Bosnia and the Netherlands and that's, in a nutshell,
8 what I was informed of by the Victims and Witnesses Unit, and he's
9 apparently quite unwell. So he is essentially unavailable for today.
10 JUDGE MUMBA: Is there any indication as to when he's likely to
11 recover and be able to continue?
12 MR. DI FAZIO: No, but I discussed the possibility of his resuming
13 tomorrow, and that seemed to be contemplated as a possibility by the
14 Victims and Witnesses Unit.
15 Can I also address you on the issue of Ewa Tabeau, if I may?
16 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes.
17 MR. DI FAZIO: I have spoken to her as well regarding her
18 testimony, and she informs me that she has commitments that will
19 essentially preclude her from giving evidence for the remainder of the
20 month, except for tomorrow. She is available tomorrow. That's what she
21 has informed me of. She says that she has commitments in producing
22 further demographic reports with fixed deadlines, and at the end of the
23 month - and I asked her specifically about what about the end of the month
24 - at the end of the month, she has commitments in the Galic case, I
25 believe, as a witness in that particular case. So she is available
1 tomorrow to give evidence, and I discussed with her the possibility once
2 again, once again, because of course this has happened many times over the
3 last few months, and I'm grateful to her for her patience. But I asked
4 her once again of the possibility of her giving evidence tomorrow, and she
5 says that she can do that.
6 Now, Defence have agreed, and if given the [redacted]
7 [redacted] Given the uncertainty of the
8 condition of Witness A and his availability for tomorrow, it would, I
9 submit, be time well spent if we could deal with Ewa Tabeau tomorrow. I
10 would hope, in addition, if Your Honours please, and perhaps I'd ask the
11 Defence to take particular note, because of the nature of her evidence,
12 it's evidence that is of a general nature, applying, of course, to the
13 demographics of the area, that really, as far as the Defence are
14 concerned, if they could possibly get together one counsel -- or possibly,
15 they could split the task between them, could deal with the whole topic as
16 far as the Defence are concerned. I know that it's their right, of
17 course, to cross-examine individually, but it would seem to me to be
18 economical if they could get together and plan their cross-examination in
19 the matters that are of interest, if, of course, you're minded to permit
20 us to interpose.
21 JUDGE MUMBA: Yes. The Trial Chamber sees that that is a valuable
22 alternative. At least she is available and we can be sure that we can
23 start at 9.00 without any hitches. So the Trial Chamber is of the view
24 that Ms. Ewa Tabeau should testify starting tomorrow at 0900 hours. As
25 previously agreed with the Defence, they will be able to prepare, and I do
1 hope they will take into account what the Prosecution has said, to try to
2 divide the cross-examination among them so that there is no repetition.
3 As much as possible, it would be preferred to complete her testimony
4 tomorrow because of her other commitments with other cases in the
6 For the rest of the case, of the Prosecution case, the Trial
7 Chamber has got a decision to make. When the Trial Chamber proposed the
8 use of Rule 92 bis to the Prosecution for the rest of the Prosecution
9 witnesses, it was envisaged that the Prosecution would comply with the
10 provisions of the Rule in the preparation and filing of the statements,
11 especially the service of signed statements to the Defence.
12 What the Trial Chamber has observed is that the statements are not
13 available within a reasonable period to allow the Defence to get
14 instructions without undue pressure. When the Trial Chamber -- and also
15 the Trial Chamber has not been able to see the filed statements in time to
16 be able to peruse the statements. The conditions created by waiting for
17 the witness to sign the statement upon arrival in The Hague, it appears to
18 the Trial Chamber, will lead to unacceptable positions being placed on the
19 Defence. Because of these observations, the Trial Chamber has decided
20 that as formal procedures under Rule 92 bis have not been complied with,
21 the rest of the Prosecution witnesses will continue to give oral
22 testimony. That is after Witness A has completed his evidence.
23 We shall adjourn and continue our proceedings tomorrow morning at
24 0900 hours.
25 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at
1 12.11 p.m., to be reconvened on Wednesday,
2 the 10th day of July, 2002, at 9.00 a.m.