1 Tuesday, 17th February 1998
2 INITIAL APPEARANCE
3 (2.30 pm)
4 JUDGE JORDA: We will now start the
5 hearing. Registrar, what is the case number, before we
6 have the accused brought in, what is the accused
8 THE REGISTRAR: This is the case the
9 Prosecutor of the Tribunal against Slobodan Miljkovic,
10 also known as Lugar, Blagoje Simic, Milan Simic,
11 Miroslav Tadic, also known as Miro Brko, Stevan
12 Todorovic, also known as Stiv, also known as Stevo,
13 also known as Monstrum, and Simo Zaric also known as
15 JUDGE JORDA: And more specifically in this
17 THE REGISTRAR: For today, Simic and Tadic,
18 also known as Miro Brko.
19 JUDGE JORDA: Very well. Can we have
20 Mr Simic and Mr Tadic brought in, please?
21 (The accused entered court)
22 JUDGE JORDA: Please give headsets to each of
23 the accused, and while we are doing that I would like
24 to ask who represents the Office of the Prosecutor.
25 MS PATERSON: Yes, Mr President, I am Nancy
1 Paterson, I am here for the Prosecution and I will have
2 my colleague introduce himself.
3 MR TOCHILOVSKY: My name is Mr Tochilovsky.
4 JUDGE JORDA: Please use your microphone.
5 You have the headset but you did not have your
6 microphone on. Would you please repeat your name?
7 MR TOCHILOVSKY: My name is Tochilovsky.
8 JUDGE JORDA: And for the Defence? I see
9 Mr Pantelic.
10 MR PANTELIC: Good afternoon, your Honour.
11 Here we are again, I hope that I am not boring you.
12 I am Igor Pantelic --
13 JUDGE JORDA: Well, you know, lawyers never
14 really bother me.
15 MR PANTELIC: Appearances here, are to appear
16 on behalf of Mr Milan Simic. I would say just
17 provisionally, because according to the position of the
18 Registry, and the Rules, relevant Rules, it is possible
19 only to be a lead counsel in one case, so this is just
20 to help these formalities and after this initial
21 appearance, Mr Milan Simic will make a choice about his
22 Defence team who will act during the trial.
23 JUDGE JORDA: Very well. And Mr Tadic is
24 being defended by whom? What is your name, please?
25 MR PISAREVIC: Your Honour, my name is
1 Borislav Pisarevic, attorney from Samac and member of
2 the Bar Association of Republika Srpska, and in this
3 case I represent Mr Miroslav Tadic. Thank you.
4 JUDGE JORDA: Very well. Before we begin the
5 initial appearance hearing, I would like both of the
6 accused to introduce themselves. One of course will
7 remain seated. I would like each of them to state his
8 name, his family name, his first name, his date and
9 place of birth, his -- and his last residence, perhaps
10 the one who is not handicapped who could rise and
11 answer the question, please.
12 You are...
13 Please let us have one of the guards turn the
14 microphone on.
15 You are...
16 MR TADIC: My name is Miroslav Tadic, also
17 known as Brko, as is mentioned in the indictment.
18 I was born on 12 May 1937, in Novi Grad, in the Odzak
19 municipality, Republika Srpska.
20 JUDGE JORDA: I would also like you to tell
21 us what your name, domicile is and what your profession
23 MR TADIC: I am a retired professor,
25 JUDGE JORDA: Professor of what? What was
1 your field?
2 MR TADIC: Machine engineering.
3 The last residence is in Samac, The Car Dusan
4 Street, number 38.
5 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you. You may be seated
6 for the time being.
7 I will now turn --
8 MR TADIC: Thank you, too.
9 JUDGE JORDA: -- to Mr Milan Simic, who will
10 remain seated. In the same manner as your co-accused,
11 please state your family name, your first name, the
12 date and location of your birth, your profession and
13 your last domicile, Mr Simic.
14 MR SIMIC: My name is Milan Simic, born on
15 9th August 1960 in Sarajevo. I am economist by
16 profession, and last residence is in Samac in Republika
18 JUDGE JORDA: Very well. We will now
19 continue with the initial appearance hearing, and
20 according to our rules, we must ask each of you,
21 Mr Tadic and Mr Simic, to state who the lawyers are
22 that you have chosen.
23 Mr Tadic, do you confirm that you chose
24 Mr Pisarevic. Is that correct?
25 MR TADIC: Yes. I have selected Mr Borislav
1 Pisarevic from Samac for counsel in this case.
2 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you, and Mr Simic, did
3 you choose Mr Pantelic. Is that correct?
4 MR SIMIC: Yes, that is right.
5 JUDGE JORDA: I now am speaking to the
6 public gallery as well. The purpose of this hearing is
7 to verify before the judges the fact that the
8 indictment was served on the accused, according to the
9 conditions which give rise to this indictment which was
10 then confirmed by a judge. We are following the
11 governing texts of the Tribunal, that is the Statute of
12 the Tribunal which was set up in 1993, and it says that
13 the Trial Chamber shall read the indictment to be sure
14 that the rights of the accused are respected and to be
15 sure that the accused, or that the accused in the
16 plural have understood the indictment and are then
17 given the opportunity to plead guilty or not guilty.
18 I would also like to point out in order to
19 make sure that everything is clear and that this is
20 a public hearing, that we are now two judges, not
21 three, as is ordinarily the case, but the Rules do
22 provide that the presiding -- the president of the
23 Tribunal can make an exception, if one of the judges is
24 unable to be present, which was the case today.
25 That is Rule 15 of the Rules of Procedure and
2 For the initial appearance we are governed by
3 Rule 62, the judges must satisfy themselves that the
4 right of each of the accused to counsel is respected,
5 which we have just done, and then we will read or have
6 the indictment read to the accused in a language he
7 speaks and understands, and satisfies itself that the
8 accused understands the indictment, after which we call
9 upon the accused to enter a plea of guilty or not
10 guilty on each count.
11 I would now turn to Mr Pisarevic and
12 Mr Pantelic and state, this indictment with which you
13 are familiar, you did give it to your counsel, did you
14 not, before we -- I would like to be sure of this
15 before we read it.
16 MR PANTELIC: We have discussed all these
17 issues since 1996 with our clients and as well as these
18 few days when they are hearing the case, so everything
19 is clear for them.
20 JUDGE JORDA: Mr Pisarevic?
21 MR PISAREVIC: Mr President, I believe what
22 Mr Pantelic has said, I can confirm since the
23 indictment has been issued we have been discussing it
24 with our clients and they are informed and they know
25 what it is about.
1 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you very much. I would
2 now ask the Registrar to read the indictment. As you
3 have seen, this indictment at the time that it was
4 confirmed by one of our colleagues, at the time it was
5 Judge Vohrah, and I believe that that was on 21st July
6 1995, the indictment included six accused. Two are
7 present today. I will therefore ask the Registrar to
8 read in public this indictment, but to read everything
9 that involves the general allegations and then the
10 specific parts which deal with each of the two accused
11 here today.
12 Mr Registrar, you may begin to read the
13 indictment which was issued by the International
14 Criminal Tribunal against Milan Simic and Miroslav
15 Tadic, also known as Miro Brko.
16 THE REGISTRAR: The Prosecutor of the
17 Tribunal against Slobodan Miljkovic, also known as
18 Lugar, Blagoje Simic, Milan Simic, Miroslav Tadic, also
19 known as Miro Brko, Stevan Todorovic, also known as
20 Stiv, also known as Stevo, also known as Monstrum, Simo
21 Zaric, also known as Solaja.
22 Indictment. Richard J Goldstone, Prosecutor
23 of the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former
24 Yugoslavia, pursuant to his authority under Article 18
25 of the Statute of the International Criminal Tribunal
1 for the Former Yugoslavia (Tribunal Statute), charges:
2 1) In 1991, almost 17,000 Bosnian Croats and
3 Muslims, of a total population of about 33,000, lived
4 in the municipality of Bosanski Samac in the Republic
5 of Bosnia and Herzegovina. By May 1995, fewer than 300
6 of the Bosnian Croat and Muslim residents remained.
7 2) On 17 April 1992, Serb military forces
8 from Bosnia and elsewhere in the Former Yugoslavia
9 seized control of the town of Bosanski Samac.
10 3) Because of its location at the
11 north-western edge of the, "Posavina corridor", control
12 of Bosanski Samac was important to Serb efforts to
13 create a Serb-controlled land bridge between Serbia and
14 the Krajina Serbs in Croatia and western Bosnia and
16 4) After seizing control in the military
17 take-over, Serb authorities undertook a campaign of
18 terror designed to force most Bosnian Croat and Muslim
19 residents to leave the area.
20 5) Beginning on 17 April 1992, Serb military
21 and political authorities coordinated and carried out
22 the following actions as part of that campaign of
24 (a) arrested and detained most of the Bosnian
25 Croat and Muslim men in the municipality, particularly
1 the political, economic, professional, academic and
2 civic leaders;
3 (b) established and operated, primarily under
4 the authority of the Serb police, detention camps where
5 prisoners were killed, beaten, tortured, sexually
6 assaulted and otherwise mistreated;
7 (c) permitted units of paramilitary soldiers
8 from Serbia to enter the detention camps to kill and
9 beat the prisoners;
10 (d) forced Bosnian Croat and Muslim residents
11 to leave their homes, and permitted Serb residents to
12 move into the vacated homes;
13 (e) expelled, through force or intimidation,
14 Bosnian Croat and Muslim residents of the municipality
15 to other countries and other parts of Bosnia and
17 (f) required Bosnian Croat and Muslim men,
18 women and children to work on forced labour projects,
19 such as digging trenches and other work at military
20 confrontation lines;
21 (g) robbed Bosnian Croat and Muslim residents
22 of their cars, cash and valuables, and looted their
24 (h) looted and dismantled equipment and
25 inventories from Bosnian Croat and Muslim businesses;
1 (i) issued orders prohibiting Bosnian Croats
2 and Muslims from congregating in public and requiring
3 Bosnian Croats and Muslims to wear white arm bands to
4 identify themselves as non-Serbs;
5 (j) confiscated the bank accounts of many
6 Bosnian Croats and Muslims and blocked the funds in
7 those accounts;
8 (k) mobilised Bosnian Croat and Muslim men
9 into the Bosnian Serb Army and sent them to the front
11 (l) created such an atmosphere of fear and
12 oppression among the non-Serb population that most
13 Bosnian Croat and Muslim residents fled the area.
14 The accused:
15 6. Slobodan Miljkovic, also known as Lugar,
16 born in 1953, from Kragujevac, Serbia, was the deputy
17 commander of the 2nd Posavina Brigade, also known as,
18 "the grey Wolves", a paramilitary unit from Serbia.
19 7. Blagoje Simic, born in 1960, is a medical
20 physician from Kruskovo Polje, Bosanski Samac
21 municipality who is the president of the Serbian
22 Democratic Party (SDS) in Bosanski Samac and was
23 Vice-Chairman of the town assembly from 1919 through 17
24 April 1992. From 4 November 1991 through at least 30
25 November 1992, Blagoje Simic was the deputy of the
1 assembly of the self-declared, "Serb Autonomous Region
2 of Northern Bosnia", later called, "the Serb Autonomous
3 Province of Semberija and Majevica", of the, "Serb
4 Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina". In March 1992,
5 Blagoje Simic declared himself head of the, "Serb
6 Municipality Bosanski Samac". After the military
7 take-over of Bosanski Samac on 17 April 1992, Blagoje
8 Simic became chairman of the Bosanski Samac Assembly,
9 chairman of the local SDS Crisis Staff, and President
10 of the Wartime Presidency.
11 8. Milan Simic, born in 1958 --
12 JUDGE JORDA: Perhaps there is an error
13 here. He stated that he was born in 1960. Yes.
14 Continue, please.
15 THE REGISTRAR:
16 8. Milan Simic, born in 1960, a cousin of
17 Blagoje Simic, trained as an economist, was a member of
18 the Fourth Detachment and after 17 April 1992 became
19 Chairman of the Executive Board of the Bosanski Samac
21 9. Miroslav Tadic, also known as Miro Brko,
22 born in 1937, from Odzak municipality, formerly
23 a teacher, ran the cafe, "AS", in Bosanski Samac and
24 served as Simo Zaric's deputy in connection with the
25 Fourth Detachment. After 17 April 1992, Miroslav Tadic
1 became Chairman of the Bosanski Samac, "Exchange
3 10. Stevan Todorovic, also known as Stiv,
4 Stevo or Monstrum, born in 1957, from Donja Slatina,
5 Bosanski Samac municipality, was appointed chief of
6 police for Bosanski Samac after 17 April 1992 military
7 take-over. Before then, Stevan Todorovic was an
8 executive in a bamboo furniture factory.
9 11. Simo Zaric, also known as Solaja, born
10 25 July 1948 from Donja Dubica in Odzak municipality,
11 was a former police chief of Bosanski Samac and State
12 Security Service (SDB) agent who, from 1 January 1992
13 through at least 31 August 1992, organised and
14 supervised a Serb Territorial Defence unit known at
15 first as the Fourth Detachment and later renamed the
16 5th Battalion of the 2nd Posavina Brigade.
17 General allegations:
18 12. Unless otherwise set forth below, all
19 acts and omissions alleged in this indictment took
20 place between about 17 April and 20 November 1992 in
21 Bosanski Samac municipality in the Republic of Bosnia
22 and Herzegovina in the territory of the Former
24 13. At all times relevant to this
25 indictment, a state of armed conflict and partial
1 occupation existed in the Republic of Bosnia and
3 14. At all times relevant to this
4 indictment, all persons described in this indictment as
5 victims were protected by the Geneva Conventions of
7 15. At all times relevant to this
8 indictment, all of the accused in this indictment were
9 required to abide by the laws and customs governing the
10 conduct of war, including the Geneva Conventions of
12 16. In each paragraph of this indictment
13 charging torture, the acts were committed by, or at the
14 instigation of, or with the consent or acquiescence of,
15 an official or person acting in an official capacity,
16 and for one or more of the following purposes: to
17 obtain information or a confession from the victim or
18 a third person; to punish the victim for an act the
19 victim or a third person committed or was suspected of
20 having committed; to intimidate or coerce the victim or
21 a third person; and/or for any reason based upon
22 discrimination of any kind.
23 17. All acts and omissions charged as crimes
24 against humanity were part of a widespread, systematic,
25 or large-scale attack against the Croat and Muslim
1 residents of the municipality of Bosanski Samac.
2 18. Each of the accused is individually
3 responsible for the crimes alleged against him in this
4 indictment, pursuant to Article 7(1) of the Tribunal
5 Statute. Individual criminal liability includes
6 committing, planning, initiating, ordering or aiding
7 and abetting in the planning, preparation or execution
8 of any crime referred to in Articles 2 to 5 of the
9 Tribunal Statute.
10 19. Paragraphs 12 through 18 are re-alleged
11 and incorporated into each of the charges set forth
13 Charges. Counts 1 and 2. Deportation and
15 20. From about 17 April 1992 through at
16 least 4 September 1992, Simo Zaric and Miroslav Tadic
17 participated in the planning of and preparation for,
18 the unlawful deportation and forcible transfer of
19 hundreds of Bosnian Croat and Muslim residents,
20 including women, children and the elderly, from their
21 homes in the Bosanski Samac municipality to other
22 countries or to other parts of the Republic of Bosnia
23 and Herzegovina not controlled by Serb forces. By
24 these actions Simo Zaric and Miroslav Tadic planned,
25 instigated, ordered or committed:
1 Count 1: a grave breach of the Geneva
2 Conventions of 1949 (hereafter grave breach) recognised
3 by Article 2(g) (unlawful deportation or transfer) of
4 the Tribunal Statute;
5 Count 2: a crime against humanity recognised
6 by Article 5(d) (deportation) of the Tribunal Statute.
7 Counts 24 through 26. Beating of Mohammed
9 27. On an occasion some time between about
10 1 June and 30 June 1992, in a hallway of the gymnasium
11 of the Bosanski Samac primary school, Milan Simic and
12 several others kicked Muhamed Bicic and beat him
13 repeatedly with iron bars and chair legs. By these
14 actions, Milan Simic committed or otherwise aided and
16 Count 24: a grave breach recognised by
17 Article 2(c) (wilfully causing great suffering) of the
18 Tribunal Statute;
19 Count 25: a violation of the laws or customs
20 of war recognised by Article 3 of the Tribunal Statute
21 and Article 3(1)(a) (cruel treatment) of the Geneva
23 Count 26: a crime against humanity recognised
24 by Article 5(i) (inhumane acts) of the Tribunal
1 Signed Richard J Goldstone, Prosecutor and...
2 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you. I will now turn to
3 the accused, that is Mr Miroslav Tadic. First of all,
4 did you understand the intent and sense of this
5 indictment as it was read to you in your language? Did
6 you understand it? Will you answer me, please? You
7 heard it, you understood it?
8 MR TADIC: Yes, I have heard the indictment.
9 I did not fully understand it...
10 JUDGE JORDA: You did not understand
11 everything. What is it that you did not understand?
12 MR TADIC: I do not know what Mr Lugar doing
13 there. I barely know this man.
14 JUDGE JORDA: Yes. That will be part of
15 your defence, once the trial begins. For the time
16 being, we are simply referring to charges that were
17 brought against you, and on purpose, I ask the
18 Registrar to read only the counts which concern you
19 specifically, but as regards those which do concern
20 you, did you first of all understand them in your own
21 language? Did the interpretation allow you to
22 understand what you are being accused of?
23 MR TADIC: Yes, I did.
24 JUDGE JORDA: Very well. Thank you. You
25 may be seated.
1 Mr Simic, I ask you the same question; did
2 you hear the indictment? Did you understand it in your
3 own native language?
4 MR SIMIC: Yes.
5 JUDGE JORDA: Very well. I am now going to
6 ask you to plead guilty or not guilty to the various
7 counts which have been brought against you by the
8 Office of the Prosecutor.
9 Mr Tadic, I will ask you to rise one more
10 time, and ask the Registrar to mention once again the
11 two charges against you, and after each of them, simply
12 state whether you have chosen, in agreement with your
13 counsel, to plead guilty or to the contrary, to plead
14 not guilty as, since you know that this would have
15 different repercussions on the trial, but I wanted to
16 point these differences out to you and if you do not
17 understand them I will explain them to you.
18 Mr Registrar, will you please read the counts
19 against Mr Miroslav Tadic? Are you having a microphone?
20 But you have got a very powerful voice, I am sure that
21 we can hear you. Are things okay? Fine. Please rise,
22 and Mr Tadic, please rise because these are charges
23 against you and I want you to listen carefully.
24 Now, Mr Registrar, this is count number 1.
25 THE REGISTRAR: A great breach of the Geneva
1 Convention 1949, (hereafter grave breach) recognised by
2 Article 2(g) (unlawful deportation or transfer) of the
3 Tribunal Statute.
4 JUDGE JORDA: Unlawful deportation or
5 transfer of the Tribunal Statute.
6 Mr Miroslav Tadic, do you plead guilty or not
8 MR TADIC: I am not guilty on either of the
10 JUDGE JORDA: Registrar, please note the
11 fact that the accused has pleaded not guilty, and now
12 once again for count 2.
13 THE REGISTRAR: A crime against humanity
14 recognised by Article 5(d) (deportation) of the
15 Tribunal Statute.
16 JUDGE JORDA: Mr Tadic, do you plead guilty
17 or not guilty?
18 MR TADIC: Not guilty.
19 JUDGE JORDA: Mr Tadic may be seated and
20 Registrar, you will note that the accused has pleaded
21 not guilty.
22 Mr Simic, the Prosecutor has charged you with
23 three counts, 24, 25 and 26. We will do the same
24 thing. Would you please state count number 24?
25 THE REGISTRAR: Count number 24, a grave
1 breach recognised by Article 2(c) (wilfully causing
2 great suffering) of the Tribunal Statute.
3 JUDGE JORDA: Mr Simic, do you plead guilty
4 or not guilty?
5 MR SIMIC: Not guilty.
6 JUDGE JORDA: A plea of not guilty to count
7 24. Count number 25?
8 THE REGISTRAR: Count 25, a violation of the
9 laws or customs of war recognised by Article 3 of the
10 Tribunal Statute and Article 3(1)(a) (cruel treatment)
11 of the Geneva Conventions.
12 JUDGE JORDA: Do you plead guilty or not
13 guilty, Mr Simic?
14 MR SIMIC: Not guilty.
15 JUDGE JORDA: When you say that you are not
16 guilty, I hope you understand that I am interpreting it
17 a certain way. That is, you are choosing in this trial
18 to adopt the attitude of a person who has pleaded not
19 guilty. We do agree with that, do we not? Do we agree?
20 MR SIMIC: Yes, yes.
21 JUDGE JORDA: Does your counsel agree as
22 well, Mr Pantelic?
23 MR PANTELIC: Your Honour, as usual.
24 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you. Well, not always,
25 I am sure.
1 Count 26.
2 THE REGISTRAR: Count 26, a crime against
3 humanity recognised by Article 5(i) (inhumane acts) of
4 the Tribunal Statute.
5 JUDGE JORDA: Mr Simic, do you plead guilty
6 or not guilty?
7 MR SIMIC: Not guilty.
8 JUDGE JORDA: Very well. The transcript
9 will note that the accused have pleaded not guilty, and
10 that this means that in the trial there must be
11 procedures which follow those of a not guilty plea.
12 This is so that everything is clear.
13 I now turn to the Prosecutor to remind her,
14 as we do for each of the initial appearances, to remind
15 her of obligations to disclose all documents which are
16 attached to the indictment at the time of its
17 confirmation, I suppose in support of the indictment
18 which was confirmed by our colleague Judge Vohrah.
19 There must have been a series of attachments, as well
20 as prior statements of the accused, that is -- or
22 Are you in a position to depose at this
23 moment? I would like to recall that the Rules have been
24 modified and at the time period set, the starting point
25 of 60 days for the preliminary motions has changed
1 somewhat. Turning to the Prosecutor...
2 MS PATERSON: Yes, Mr President, we are aware
3 of our obligation to turn over the confirmation
4 material. I do have the material with me in court
5 today. These two envelopes contain the material for
6 the two accused. However, in light of serious concerns
7 that we have to protect the confidentiality of our
8 witnesses and to protect their security and safety,
9 I will be filing a motion immediately after court with
10 the court requesting that the court order, special
11 protection of the information contained in the
12 documents concerning the victims and witnesses --
13 I have provided Mr Pantelic and Mr Pisarevic with
14 a copy of this motion prior to coming to the Chamber
15 today and I have copies in English and French, if your
16 Honour would like to review them here before I file
17 them with the Registrar.
18 JUDGE JORDA: Very well. We will see how we
19 are going to proceed to deal with that motion.
20 So, what date do you have in mind for the
21 completion of the disclosure of all of the statements,
22 both of the accused and the depositions of
23 statements? -- depositions of witnesses, excuse me. Do
24 you think that all this would be ready by -- what date?
25 I would like to remind you that the 60-day period will
1 start to run from the point that all material has been
2 given to the Defence, everything that is covered by
3 Rule 66(a), therefore we have to have a date so that
4 I know that starting from that date the Defence will
5 have 60 days in order to file any preliminary motions
6 that it wants to do. How much time do you want?
7 A week?
8 MS PATERSON: Mr President, we are prepared
9 to hand over the supporting material to the Defence as
10 soon as the court rules on the protective order so that
11 material will be made available to them hopefully
12 within the next few days.
13 As far as the additional material goes, we
14 are prepared to follow the Rules of the Tribunal. We
15 will make the relevant material available as soon as
16 practicable. However, we will abide by the Rules that
17 we do not have to turn over the contents of the witness
18 statements we intend to call at trial until 60 days
19 before the trial begins.
20 JUDGE JORDA: Which means that from the time
21 that the Trial Chamber responds to your motion for --
22 concerning protection of witnesses, we could assume,
23 then, about three or four days, you would be in
24 a position to give all of the material to the Defence.
25 Is that correct?
1 MS PATERSON: We can provide all of the
2 confirmation material tomorrow, your Honour, as soon as
3 the court rules on the protective order.
4 JUDGE JORDA: Very well. Can I therefore
5 say that at the end of the initial hearing, and after
6 I have spoken with my colleague, that we might possibly
7 give you an answer this afternoon. I would like to
8 confer with my colleague for a moment. (Pause).
9 The Trial Chamber has decided that
10 immediately after this initial hearing we will adjourn
11 for about an hour and then resume our hearing at which
12 point we can have -- we will then decide whether it
13 should be public or not, in order to hear the -- what
14 you have to say about your request, and anything that
15 the Defence would like to say as well. Any objection
16 to that, Ms Paterson?
17 MS PATERSON: That is fine, your Honour.
18 JUDGE JORDA: I now turn to the Defence
19 counsel, Mr Pantelic?
20 MR PANTELIC: Yes, your Honour, that is fine
21 with the Defence also.
22 JUDGE JORDA: Mr Pisarevic?
23 MR PISAREVIC: Your Honours, we agree with
25 JUDGE JORDA: I intend to set the date for
1 a conference, a Status Conference for 17th March at
2 2.45 where we will see where things are as regards
3 disclosure of materials, and perhaps at that point, in
4 light of any possible preliminary motions, we might be
5 able to set an approximate date for the trial itself.
6 I would again turn to the accused and ask
7 whether they have any comments that they would like to
8 make. First, Mr Tadic, no comments about what you
9 heard? Mr Tadic?
10 MR TADIC: Your Honours, I can only express
11 my gratitude to those who made it possible for us to
12 voluntarily come here without any coercion, especially
13 the staff of the American Embassy, and General Dzans
14 who accompanied us to the airport and Mr Siseke and his
15 deputy, Ellis, who also assisted in our safe arrival in
16 The Hague.
17 I also would like to thank the staff of the
18 detention unit, because they provided very good
19 conditions, and also to the gentlemen who escorted us
20 to this courtroom. They made it -- they enabled us to
21 view this nice town and after I am released I will seek
22 an asylum here because I like it here very much.
23 Just one more comment. I have established
24 contact with the Tribunal two years ago. We had
25 intense telephone discussions on several occasions, and
1 I even sent some documents and so forth. However, the
2 reason why there are -- there are several reasons why
3 we did not come here together here sooner. However
4 I believe that it is still not too late so I would like
5 to thank you.
6 JUDGE JORDA: Mr Simic, have you any
7 statement to make? You do not have to if you do not
8 want to.
9 MR SIMIC: Yes. I also would like to express
10 my pleasant surprise by the very correct behaviour of
11 first of all the SFOR troops who allowed us to come to
12 The Hague, the Dutch police, the entire staff of the UN
13 detention in The Hague and I would like to express my
14 thanks to the Tribunal and the entire staff for this
15 kind of behaviour.
16 I also would like to point out that given my
17 physical condition, which makes it more difficult for
18 me to be accommodated, that everybody is going out of
19 their way to help me there.
20 I also would like to add that my decision to
21 come to this Tribunal have been around for a while and
22 it was really my physical condition that prevented me
23 from arriving here sooner. That is all. Thank you.
24 JUDGE JORDA: Very well. I would like to
25 turn to my colleague to ask whether he has any
2 Ms Paterson, do you want to add something?
3 MS PATERSON: Yes, Mr President, just one
4 thing, briefly.
5 Well, while we realise that it is up to the
6 Defence to make such a motion, the Prosecution wanted
7 to bring to the court's attention the fact that should
8 the Defence counsel choose to file a motion regarding
9 Mr Simic for his provisional release, that depending on
10 the arrangements that could be made, the Prosecution
11 would look favourably on such a motion, and perhaps the
12 Defence might want to consider such action prior to our
13 next meeting on the 17th March.
14 JUDGE JORDA: Ms Paterson, I am very
15 sensitive to the fact that the Prosecutor is talking
16 about release. The Defence did not. I would like to
17 turn to the two counsel. I have not received any
18 request to that effect. Mr Pisarevic, Mr Pantelic,
19 first of all do you want to say something about that?
20 MR PANTELIC: Your Honour, I think it is --
21 I appreciate this position of the Office of the
22 Prosecutor, but I think it is too early to discuss all
23 these procedural matters. We are thinking seriously
24 about the whole possibility according to the Rules, but
25 of course we have some other ideas, maybe we shall
1 discuss that later during the Status Conference,
2 et cetera. That is all for the moment. Thank you.
3 JUDGE JORDA: I therefore consider that for
4 the time being, that we have not received any request
5 for provisional release of either of the accused,
6 unless, Ms Paterson, you yourself file one which is
7 requesting the release of the accused which of course
8 is your right. After all, it was a request that the
9 accused were arrested. Do you intend to do that,
10 according to which, we will work as quickly as we can,
11 even this afternoon, but we have to ensure that there
12 is a representative of the host country here. What is
13 your opinion on that subject, Ms Paterson?
14 MS PATERSON: No, Mr President. The
15 Prosecution does not intend to file such a motion. As
16 I stated previously, we believe that that is in the
17 purview of the Defence to file that motion. However,
18 we have been informed of the physical condition of
19 Mr Simic. We are aware of his physical condition and
20 his limitations and because of that we wanted to bring
21 to the attention of both the court and the Defence
22 counsel that if arrangements can be worked out, the
23 Prosecution might be agreeable to such an arrangement,
24 but that is a motion for the Defence to make and if
25 they choose not to then the Prosecution will respect
1 that decision.
2 JUDGE JORDA: I will now summarise things.
3 Provisional release may yet be requested. It
4 can be ordered by the judges themselves, in fact,
5 prepare emoto. It is self-evident in this type of
6 case, a request for provisional release. Let me remind
7 you, that in this Tribunal, it is the detention which
8 is the principal right, and that release is an
9 exceptional circumstance which has to be the case given
10 the seriousness of the crimes that are being charged
11 here, but this procedure does exist within the
12 Tribunal, and has been used in other cases.
13 The judges' opinion is that the request in
14 theory must either come from those who are responsible
15 for the arrest, that is the Prosecutor, or the Defence
16 which justifies this request, but we recall it at the
17 time being that we would then have to hear the
18 representative of the host country and under this
19 condition, since there is no request which has been
20 presented for provisional release either from the
21 Defence on the part of the accused or on the part of
22 the -- from the Prosecution for the time being does not
23 intend to do that, because it does not have
24 sufficiently specific medical information.
25 Having said this, I would suggest that we now
1 adjourn this hearing and resume at 4 o'clock in order
2 to argue the request for the provision of protected
4 (3.25 pm)