1 Wednesday, 24th November, 1999
2 [Motion hearing]
3 [Open session]
4 [The accused entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 2.32 p.m.
6 JUDGE ROBINSON: Will the Registrar call the
7 case, please?
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your
9 Honours. Case number IT-95-9-PT, the Prosecutor versus
10 Milan Simic, Miroslav Tadic, Stevan Todorovic and Simo
12 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Brashich, we are to
13 begin today's proceedings with evidence from
14 Mr. Todorovic.
15 MR. BRASHICH: Yes, Your Honour. There are
16 just two or three minor matters that I would like to
17 bring out before calling my first witness.
18 The first matter, Your Honour: I take it
19 from the comments made by Judge Hunt with regard to the
20 writ of habeas corpus petition, that it is not
21 entertained by Chambers, will that only remain an oral
22 decision or will that be followed by a written
24 JUDGE HUNT: I'm afraid you can't verbal me
25 quite like that, Mr. Brashich.
1 MR. BRASHICH: I'm sorry, Your Honour?
2 JUDGE HUNT: You can't verbal me quite like
3 that. What I said was we have no power to make an
4 order for a writ for habeas corpus. I said the issue
5 has to be dealt with as an application to challenge the
6 legality of your client's detention. Nobody said that
7 your writ, so-called, will not be entertained, but not
8 in the form in which it is.
9 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Brashich, I think we
10 have had enough of this. Let's not get diverted by
11 classifications and nomenclature. My inclination is to
12 deal with substance, not procedure.
13 You have filed what you called a writ of
14 habeas corpus. The Tribunal's Statute does not
15 recognise a writ of habeas corpus. But essentially a
16 writ of habeas corpus seeks to challenge the legality
17 of the detention of an accused person, and we have an
18 obligation to hear that.
19 MR. BRASHICH: I understand that, Your
20 Honour. All I was asking for was a very simple
22 My second point, Your Honour, is that with
23 regard to my calling Mr. Todorovic as a witness, I
24 would like to have a motion in limine whereby my
25 client's right not to testify against him be still
1 continued and that his testimony is for the purposes of
2 whatever we want to call it, either a writ of habeas
3 corpus or a motion testing his detention.
4 [Trial Chamber confers]
5 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Brashich, we are hearing
6 two motions, and ultimately the Chamber will give its
7 decision on the two motions: the writ of habeas
8 corpus, if you prefer that classification, or the
9 challenge to the legality of the accused's detention;
10 and secondly, the writ for the return of the accused.
11 With regard to the in limine point, the
12 accused may, of course, be cross-examined but not to
13 the questions that go to his guilt or innocence. The
14 cross-examination will be limited to the
15 examination-in-chief and to the questions that are
16 pertinent to this particular inquiry.
17 MR. BRASHICH: Thank you, Your Honour. The
18 last point is --
19 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone for the counsel,
21 MR. BRASHICH: I'm sorry. Thank you. I
22 filed a motion with the Court early this morning, and I
23 made an error stating September 27th and 28th. The
24 dates in the motion should be 26th and 27th, and as
25 soon as I get back to New York on Friday, I will refile
1 a corrected version, but I did not want to have the
2 Chamber be misled by my early-morning mistake.
3 JUDGE ROBINSON: We have only just received
4 that motion and we haven't yet had a chance to --
5 MR. BRASHICH: Thank you, Your Honour. With
6 regard -- that ends the preliminary matters, and the
7 Todorovic Defence would then call Mr. Todorovic in
8 support of the motions.
9 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Neimann.
10 MR. NIEMANN: Yes, Your Honour. My
11 understanding of the proceedings today was to hear the
12 motion in the nature of habeas corpus. It wasn't my
13 understanding that there was going to be any motion --
14 hearing of the motion in relation to the return of the
15 accused, and if that is to occur today, well, I object
16 to that on the grounds that these issues have been well
17 litigated on numerous occasions by previous motions
18 that have been brought by the accused.
19 My understanding of the exchange between us
20 yesterday, Your Honours, was that a new matter had
21 arisen, namely, the writ of habeas corpus or the
22 proceedings in nature of that, and that was a matter
23 where this accused had not, in the past, challenged the
24 warrant or the validity of his arrest. That is one
25 matter, and I acknowledge that that was, in effect, the
1 case. I didn't believe it to be at the time, and I
2 still don't believe it to be a matter of issue between
3 the parties, but if he wishes to pursue it, I didn't
4 raise objection.
5 But, Your Honours, I certainly do object to
6 going into the second issue, which in my submission has
7 been canvassed extensively in numerous motions that
8 have been brought and, in fact, it has gone as far as
9 the Court of Appeal and back down again.
10 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Niemann, speaking for
11 myself, I am not in agreement with that. We are, in
12 fact, hearing two motions. They are to a certain
13 extent linked, and for practical purposes it's
14 convenient to hear them.
15 The previous motion that you spoke of that
16 went to the Court of Appeal was dismissed by this
17 Chamber on the ground that there was not presented
18 sufficient evidence. The Appeals Chamber held that
19 this Chamber was correct in exercising that discretion
20 and coming to that conclusion. The accused has
21 subsequently presented evidence as to what he considers
22 to be an illegality and it is that which is being
23 canvassed today and that is a new matter.
24 JUDGE HUNT: If I may say so, not having been
25 there myself but from reading all the material, the
1 only issue which was determined in the previous
2 proceedings was where the onus of proof lay, and that's
3 the only matter that went to the Appeals Chamber.
4 MR. NIEMANN: In --
5 JUDGE HUNT: Wait a minute, Mr. Niemann.
6 There's no finding that there's no consideration in any
7 of the decisions to all of the submissions which the
8 Prosecution has made as to what the law was. It was
9 simply an issue that he had presented no evidence, he
10 asserting that the Prosecution had the onus of proof,
11 and the Prosecution correcting saying, "No, it's not
12 our onus." Now, that was held against him. He's now
13 come back accepting that he's led evidence, but no
14 other issue was determined in any of those proceedings.
15 MR. NIEMANN: Your Honours, the procedure
16 that he decided upon failed and he made, presumably, an
17 intelligent assessment of the course that he would seek
18 to pursue.
19 JUDGE HUNT: I think we debated this
20 yesterday, Mr. Niemann, and I pointed out to you that
21 the Appeals Chamber decision, to which you referred
22 correctly, said that you are not debarred from bringing
23 a second application if some new circumstance arises.
24 Well, the new circumstance which arises is he's been
25 proved wrong as to his contention as to where the onus
1 of proof lay, and I asked you yesterday whether you
2 were still pursuing the technicality that you were
3 relying upon rather than the merits of the case.
4 Now, I know that you did not concede
5 anything, but it was made very clear to you yesterday
6 that that was why we were going on to hear this second
8 MR. NIEMANN: My understanding, Your Honour,
9 was that the discussion yesterday was related to the
10 motion in the nature of habeas corpus.
11 JUDGE HUNT: Perhaps you were in error, and
12 you've made your bed to lie on, just as you are
13 asserting that the applicant made his.
14 MR. NIEMANN: Well, in that event, Your
15 Honours, I can only take it that Your Honours overrule
16 my objection based on the fact that these matters have
17 been previously litigated.
18 JUDGE ROBINSON: Proceed, Mr. Brashich.
19 MR. BRASHICH: Yes, Your Honour. The
20 Todorvic Defence calls Stevan Todorovic to the stand.
21 May I inquire of the procedure, Your Honour,
22 will the witness be testifying from the place in the
23 dock, or will he be testifying from the witness chair?
24 JUDGE ROBINSON: He will be testifying from
25 the witness chair.
1 Let the witness make the solemn declaration.
2 THE WITNESS: I solemnly declare that I will
3 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
5 WITNESS: STEVAN TODOROVIC
6 [Witness answered through interpreter]
7 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes, Mr. Brashich.
8 MR. BRASHICH: Thank you, Your Honour.
9 Examined by Mr. Brashich:
10 Q. Mr. Todorovic, are you the accused in this
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And at one time, you lived at Bosanski Samac?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. In July of 1998, where were you residing?
16 A. In July of 1998, I was in Serbia, in the town
17 of Rudine, in the municipality of Cajetina, at Mt.
19 Q. [Previous translation continues] ... as the
20 Federal Republic of Yugoslavia?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. When did you move from Bosanski Samac to
24 A. In January 1998.
25 Q. When you moved from Bosanski Samac to
1 Yugoslavia, did you cross an international border?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Did you use --
4 JUDGE BENNOUNA: [Interpretation]
5 Mr. Brashich, I need to interrupt you for a moment,
6 just for the clarity of this testimony. You should
7 ask -- I should like you to ask the witness, what was
8 his nationality at the time -- that is, his citizenship
9 -- at the time when he left Bosanski Samac.
10 MR. BRASHICH: Yes, Your Honour.
11 Q. What was your nationality in January of
13 A. The citizenship was one of the Republika
15 Q. Did you have a passport or a personal
16 identity card issued by the Republika Srpska?
17 A. I had a personal identification card of
18 Republika Srpska.
19 Q. And when was that identity document issued?
20 A. I believe in 1994.
21 Q. And by whom?
22 A. By the Ministry of the Interior of the
23 Republika Srpska.
24 Q. Where?
25 A. In Samac.
1 Q. And what document did you use when you went
2 across the border between Republika Srpska and
4 A. I used my personal identification card.
5 THE INTERPRETER: Could the counsel please be
6 advised to pause between question and answer.
7 MR. BRASHICH:
8 Q. In July, August, and September --
9 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Brashich, you are being
10 asked by the interpreters to observe a pause between
11 the answer and the question.
12 MR. BRASHICH:
13 Q. In July, August, and September of 1998, were
14 you employed?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. By whom were you employed?
17 A. I worked in Cajetina, in the MUP [translation
19 Q. What was the name of the company that
20 employed you?
21 A. This was a private company called Danica in
23 Q. And what was the business of this
25 MR. PANTELIC: Sorry, Your Honours, there is
1 a mistake in the transcript. His answer, "I worked in
2 Cajetina, in the MUP," which means "Police." It is not
3 that the witness said that.
4 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Brashich, would you
5 clarify that?
6 MR. BRASHICH: Yes, sir. I thank my brother
8 THE INTERPRETER: It was the interpreter's
10 MR. BRASHICH:
11 Q. I repeat again: By what enterprise were you
12 employed in July, August, and September of 1998?
13 A. A private company called Danica, in Cajetina.
14 Q. In July, August, or September, were you
15 employed by any organ or part of the Yugoslav
17 A. No.
18 Q. What was the business of this enterprise?
19 A. The enterprise produced and sold protective
20 clothing for workers.
21 Q. And what was your position with the firm?
22 A. I was an outside salesman. I sold these
24 Q. In September of 1998, where were you
25 physically living?
1 A. I lived in the village of Rudine, in the
2 Cajetina municipality.
3 Q. Just to visualise this little village of
4 Rudine, what is the nearest large town?
5 A. The nearest sizeable town is Uzice, which is
6 about 20 kilometres away.
7 Q. Did you live in a flat, or did you live in a
9 A. I lived in a small wooden house.
10 Q. Did you live alone, or did you live with
11 someone else?
12 A. I lived alone.
13 Q. Did that little house have an address?
14 A. It had an address. It was Rudine, no
16 Q. On September 26th, 1998, were you in the
17 village of Rudine at approximately 8.00 or 9.00 p.m. of
18 that day?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. At that time, what, if anything, first
21 happened to you at that house?
22 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes?
23 MR. NIEMANN: Yes, Your Honours. I raise an
24 objection on the basis of relevance. It seems to me
25 that the events that occurred at this particular time
1 in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia can hardly be
2 relevant to the arrest, which is the subject of this
3 application, which subsequently occurred in the
4 Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina at Tuzla. And so, in my
5 submission, Your Honours, none of this evidence of what
6 occurred up until the time of the arrest is relevant at
8 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Brashich?
9 MR. BRASHICH: Your Honour, it is the
10 Defence's position that this is the initial step that
11 takes the defendant from his residence in Rudine in
12 Yugoslavia, at approximately 9.00 on the 26th of
13 September, and ends up at Tuzla air force base some ten
14 hours thereafter, when -- and then there's a question,
15 because if -- as the evidence will show, the detention
16 by SFOR occurred sometime prior to any possible time
17 that the defendant was placed under arrest.
18 JUDGE HUNT: Are you going to argue that the
19 Prosecution is somehow responsible by colluding with
20 whoever it was who is alleged to have kidnapped your
22 MR. BRASHICH: I am not prepared to argue
23 that the Prosecution was in collusion; I am prepared to
24 argue that the SFOR forces were in collusion with
25 individuals who had abducted, kidnapped, my client from
1 the territory of Yugoslavia, breaching that state's
2 sovereignty, crossing illegally an internationally
3 recognised boundary, and then breaching the sovereignty
4 of Bosnia and Herzegovina prior to delivery to the
5 Prosecution and this Tribunal.
6 JUDGE HUNT: So you are going to argue, are
7 you, that even though the Prosecution was not
8 responsible for this, somehow it's relevant? Is that
9 what you're going to argue?
10 MR. BRASHICH: I would think that my argument
11 would focus on the idea that the SFOR forces were
12 acting as agents of the Prosecution, Your Honour.
13 JUDGE HUNT: Right, yes, and that they
14 colluded with the people who are alleged to have
15 kidnapped your client?
16 MR. BRASHICH: Yes, Your Honour.
17 JUDGE HUNT: So it's going to be a factual
18 issue that you want to establish?
19 MR. BRASHICH: Yes, Your Honour.
20 JUDGE HUNT: I see.
21 [Trial Chamber confers]
22 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Niemann, do you want to
23 reply? Yes.
24 MR. NIEMANN: Your Honour, it's only that
25 unless the situation has changed since my friend filed
1 his various motions in this matter, because in a motion
2 that he filed on the 20th of October, 1999, on page 2
3 of that motion, he says, in the statement in support of
4 the motion, that: "In relation to this day" -- that
5 is, the 26th of September -- "four individuals unknown
6 to me, by use of force and threats and bodily harm,"
7 et cetera, and then he goes on to say, "I never
8 consented to the four unknown individuals."
9 So I raise this because, having seen this, it
10 seems to me that unless circumstances have changed,
11 unless he can promise to produce some evidence to
12 refute that position, he stated -- not only on this
13 occasion, but on this and other occasions -- that he
14 simply doesn't know who they are.
15 JUDGE HUNT: He also said yesterday that he
16 wasn't restricting himself to what was in that
17 affidavit, and he said he had two more witnesses to
18 call. Now, we haven't seen statements and there's
19 nothing in the papers, but I thought that he has agreed
20 with me he is going to lead evidence from which he is
21 going to invite us to draw those inferences. We
22 haven't got a very good case laid out for us to
23 consider at this stage, but, nevertheless, if he's says
24 he's going to prove it, we've got to let him attempt to
25 do so.
1 MR. NIEMANN: Your Honour. If the position
2 has changed since he's filed those motions, then
3 certainly I would withdraw my objection on that basis,
4 but I sincerely hope that we are not going to be
5 subjected to all this evidence only to hear that the
6 situation is precisely the same as it was some months
8 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you, Mr. Niemann. The
9 Chamber is satisfied as to the relevance of this
11 Proceed, Mr. Brashich.
12 MR. BRASHICH:
13 Q. Let me rephrase the question. On
14 September 26th, at your home in Rudine, at
15 approximately 8.00 or 9.00 that evening, what, if
16 anything, happened initially?
17 A. Sometime around 8.00 I fell asleep. I had
18 been watching television. Sometime around 9.00 I heard
19 knocks on my door, and instinctively I jumped up and I
20 just started towards the door. I could hear the yells
21 by neighbours.
22 Q. Where was the banging coming from?
23 A. From the other side of the door, directly the
24 other side.
25 Q. Did you open the door?
1 A. I tried to open the door, and there was an
2 unknown man who came through the door with a handgun
3 pointing at me, and then he hit me over the head and
4 threw me on the bed. The house was three to four
5 metres long.
6 Q. [Previous translation continues] ...
7 accompanied by anybody else.
8 A. Immediately after that, he was followed by
9 another man and then I saw two additional men, so
10 altogether four men.
11 Q. [Previous translation continues] ... did he
12 continue to hold the pistol, the gun?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Did he say anything to you?
15 A. He said, "Why are you hiding? Come on, let's
17 Q. What did you say to him?
18 A. I said that it must be a mistake, that there
19 is no reason, and he said, "Quit talking. Get up and
20 let's go."
21 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Brashich, could I find
22 out in what language was the person speaking?
23 MR. BRASHICH:
24 Q. Were they speaking Serbian or were they
25 speaking another language?
1 A. They spoke Serbian.
2 Q. And what did you say to them?
3 THE INTERPRETER: Mr. Brashich, please come
4 closer to his microphone.
5 A. I was told it was a mistake --
6 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Brashich, you're being
7 asked by the interpreters to come closer to the
8 microphone, and I think you're not observing the pause
9 between the answer and the question. You're beginning
10 to speak when the interpretation is not concluded.
11 MR. BRASHICH: Yes, Your Honour.
12 Q. What did you say to them?
13 A. I said that it must be a mistake, that there
14 was no reason for me to go with them, because I didn't
15 know them.
16 Q. After that, was anything said by you or by
17 them further on this topic?
18 A. The second one, the one with the baseball bat
19 in his hand, he said, "Come. Let's go. We can't waste
20 time talking to you."
21 Q. Then what happened?
22 A. Then the two of them grabbed me by my two
23 arms and dragged me out of that little house.
24 Q. Did you agree to go with them?
25 A. No.
1 Q. After you left the house, where did you go?
2 A. After I left that little house, they pulled
3 me into a passenger car.
4 Q. Did you have an occasion to see the licence
5 plates of that vehicle?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Was it at that time light or dark outside?
8 A. It was dark, but light was coming from the
9 house because the door was open, and the car was only
10 three or four metres away from that little house, so
11 that one could see the car and the plates.
12 Q. The licence plate that you saw, was that an
13 official plate or was it a civilian plate?
14 A. Civilian plate.
15 Q. In Yugoslavia, what is the difference between
16 an official plate and a civilian plate licence plate?
17 A. Civilian plates have a white background and
18 characters and figures are black, and the police
19 vehicles have white letters and figures against a blue
21 Q. [Previous translation continues] ...
22 automobile, where did the five of you sit?
23 A. Then we were pushed onto a back seat and two
24 of them sat to the left and right of me and the other
25 two sat in front.
1 Q. Did you enter the vehicle voluntarily?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Did the automobile start moving?
4 A. It did.
5 Q. In which direction?
6 A. In the direction of the Belgrade-Podgorica
8 Q. When you got to the Belgrade-Podgorica
9 highway, what, if anything, happened at that point?
10 A. They stopped the vehicle when they came to
11 the first enlarged area.
12 THE INTERPRETER: Will the counsel please
13 wait for the interpreters to finish.
14 JUDGE HUNT: Mr. Brashich, really. If you
15 perhaps put your headphones around your ears you would
16 hear when the translation has concluded, that they're
17 running a long time behind you when you start your next
19 MR. BRASHICH:
20 Q. Was anything said?
21 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone for the counsel,
23 MR. BRASHICH:
24 Q. Was anything said at the time that the
25 vehicle stopped at the Belgrade-Podgorica highway?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. What, if anything, was said?
3 A. The man who was sitting next to the driver
4 told the driver to get off and change the plates.
5 Q. Did you see the change of licence plates?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Was your eyesight in any way restricted at
8 that time?
9 A. Well, the rear part of the car, yes, it was
10 restricted. I saw the driver got out, but I don't know
11 what he was doing outside. He only got off and very
12 quickly he was back and continued on the way.
13 Q. In which direction did the car then start
15 A. He started towards Uzice and Belgrade.
16 Q. And for what period of time did you drive
17 along that highway?
18 A. We rode along that highway for about half an
20 Q. During those 30 minutes, was there any
21 conversation? Did you have any conversation with the
22 four men?
23 A. Yes, but it took a very short time.
24 Q. What did they say to you and what did you say
25 to them?
1 A. They said to me that they were taking me
2 because I was owing some money to somebody and they
3 were to collect that debt. I answered that I didn't
4 owe any money to anyone and that, therefore, there must
5 have been some mistake.
6 Q. When they first entered your home, did they
7 show you any identification or badges?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Did they show you any arrest warrant or court
10 order for your detention?
11 A. No.
12 Q. What happened thereafter? We're back on the
13 road towards Uzice. What happened then?
14 A. They turned off that highway to the left, in
15 the direction of Arilja Valjevo and the River Drina.
16 Q. And then what happened?
17 A. And after awhile, on an elevation where there
18 were no houses or vehicles, they stopped the passenger
19 car and told me that they were doing it for money and
20 that they had been offered 20.000 German Marks. So if
21 I had 40.000 to give them, they would set me free. As
22 they were saying this, they tied my hands with a rope,
23 and over that rope they put an adhesive tape, brown,
24 three centimetres wide. On that same occasion they
25 also blindfolded me with that same tape.
1 I said -- I mean, where on earth could I find
2 those 40.000 German Marks in cash? They said, "Well,
3 try to remember somebody with a telephone," and they
4 would talk to him over the mobile telephone, and if
5 that person brought the money, that they would then set
6 me free.
7 Q. Did anyone come to your mind that you could
9 A. No, not at first, but then I remembered that
10 perhaps my cousin, my aunt's son, could perhaps find
11 that money, so that later on I told them that perhaps
12 they could call him.
13 Q. And this cousin of yours, where was he living
14 or physically located?
15 A. He lived in the village of Zlatina, near
16 Bosanski Samac.
17 Q. What was his name?
18 A. Stevo Tosic.
19 Q. Did you give these four men his name and
20 telephone number?
21 A. I did.
22 Q. After you had given them his name, what, if
23 anything, happened?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. I'm going to repeat the question. After you
1 gave the name and the telephone number, did anybody
2 call him?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Who made the call?
5 A. One of those four. I believe it was the
6 co-driver, the one who was sitting in front. I think
7 it was he. Then he gave me the -- he handed me over
8 the telephone and held me, because my hands were tied,
9 to bring the telephone to my ear and resume the
10 conversation with Tosic. I mean, they dialled the
11 number and I heard them say, "Hello. Good evening. Is
12 that Tosic? Your relative Stevan wants to talk to
14 Q. What did you say to Mr. Tosic and what did he
15 say to you during that conversation?
16 A. I told him that I had been kidnapped and that
17 people who kidnapped me wanted 40.000 German Marks as
18 ransom. He said, "Where do you want me to find 40.000
19 marks overnight? Nobody has all that cash." I told
20 him that if he wanted to see me alive again, to try to
21 do that, to borrow those 40.000 from someone and then
22 try to bring them during the night or, rather, until
23 10.00 the next morning to bring it, because that's what
24 they said, that he should bring those 40.000 marks to a
25 petrol station near Belgrade by 10.00.
1 Q. After the end of that conversation, what
2 happened next?
3 A. When I finished my conversation with Tosic,
4 they told him, "Well, do as Stevan as told you, and we
5 won't call you again. We'll see you tomorrow at
6 10.00." That is, that I would see him then.
7 Q. Then what happened?
8 A. And then we resumed the ride. After awhile
9 they stopped the vehicle and two of those four got off
10 that car; that is, only two stayed in the car with me.
11 Q. Could you, at that time, see the direction in
12 which you were travelling?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Approximately how much time passed from the
15 initial pounding on the door until this point?
16 A. Two and a half, three hours, perhaps.
17 Q. Did you ever consent to be held by these
18 first four, then two men, during these two and a half
19 to three hours?
20 A. No.
21 Q. After the two men left, did you stay in the
23 A. Yes, throughout.
24 Q. After the two men left, did the car move?
25 A. Yes, the vehicle resumed the journey, but we
1 stopped frequently, and when changing the direction.
2 And I also noticed they stopped at some place, and I
3 felt a very unpleasant odour, and they also commented,
4 said that it must be a garbage dump nearby, and I heard
5 the loud music from a restaurant. And we moved away
6 from that place and came back to it several times.
7 Q. For how long did you so drive?
8 A. For another hour, or maybe one and a half or
9 two, after that.
10 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Brashich, during this
11 time, is he still blindfolded? I just would like to
12 find out.
13 MR. BRASHICH:
14 Q. Would you describe your ability to move or to
15 see during this period of time?
16 A. I had this opaque tape over my eyes. To my
17 left, one individual was sitting to my left, and after
18 the two of those left, the back of the front seat was
19 lowered down. And in front, at the wheel, was the one
20 who was driving the vehicle. I could hear them talk
21 now and then.
22 Q. [Previous translation continues]
23 A. No, I couldn't see, nor I couldn't move. I
24 couldn't get off, because I was blocked.
25 JUDGE HUNT: Mr. Brashich, the last question
1 was completely lost because you were speaking over the
2 interpretation. What was it? I think it was probably
3 "Did you see anything?"; the answer was, "No, I
4 couldn't see." But do you remember what your question
6 MR. BRASHICH: "Did you" -- "Were you able to
7 see?" Your Honour.
8 JUDGE HUNT: Please wait until the
9 translation is over.
10 MR. BRASHICH:
11 Q. When did you exit the car?
12 A. I got out of the car when they stopped it,
13 told me -- that is, got me by the -- by the hand and
14 pulled me out of the car.
15 Q. Once you exited the automobile, where did you
16 go, and how did you get there?
17 A. Two men got me by my two hands, and they
18 dragged me over a concrete or an asphalt pavement, and
19 then I felt that we were moving down a slope of some 20
20 to 30 metres long.
21 Q. You mentioned gravel. Can you be more
22 specific as to the type of gravel?
23 A. Well, gravel; those were stones, pebbles,
24 shingle that you find on the bank of a river or on the
25 seacoast; that kind of shingle or pebbles. And I could
1 also feel the smell of the river, the smell of the
2 stale water, I mean the smell -- the kind that you feel
3 when you come close to a river.
4 Q. And what happened next? Where did you go?
5 A. After that, they ordered me to sit down, and
6 one held me whilst the other one was getting the boat
7 ready. I could hear twigs cracking, and some other --
8 and branches, and then they pulled me onto a small
10 Q. At that time, were you free to move around
11 and about?
12 A. No, I couldn't move about, because my hands
13 were tied; I was blindfolded. And while they were
14 preparing the boat, they also used that tape to
15 immobilise my arms and my legs and all over my body.
16 Q. Did you voluntarily get into that boat?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Did the boat move?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. How was the boat propelled?
21 A. It did not have an engine, so they rowed.
22 Very quietly, so as not to be overheard.
23 Q. And how long were you in that boat?
24 A. Well, I was about 15 to 20 minutes in that
1 Q. Did the boat reach land?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Once the boat reached land, what happened?
4 A. When the boat landed, they pulled me out of
5 the boat and loaded me into the boot of a passenger
7 Q. Did the vehicle move?
8 A. It did. I could hear the sound of the engine
9 when they switched it on, and so we rode for a while up
10 a slope and along a very winding route.
11 Q. Did the automobile come to a stop?
12 A. Yes, after 10 or 15 minutes.
13 Q. Once the automobile came to a stop, what
15 A. The engine was switched off, or rather the
16 car stopped, and I heard the sound of a manual radio,
17 and then I heard a conversation in English which I
18 couldn't follow.
19 Q. When you speak of a -- "manual radio" is the
20 translation in the transcript -- what do you mean?
21 What kind of manual radio?
22 A. It was a hand-held, the radio device that the
23 police usually use, and we also used them.
24 Q. So you were familiar with this particular
25 radio device?
1 A. Why, yes, because it was a sound similar to
2 the one produced by a radio device.
3 Q. And the language spoken was English?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Do you speak or understand English?
6 A. No.
7 Q. What happened next?
8 A. Immediately after that, I heard the sound of
9 a helicopter blade.
10 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Brashich, just let me be
11 clear. The language spoken was English; that's the
12 language coming from the radio as well as the language
13 spoken by the persons who were holding him?
14 MR. BRASHICH: Thank you, Your Honour. I
15 will clarify.
16 Q. When you were in the trunk of the car, and
17 when the radio was used, could you hear both the person
18 using the radio close to you as well as the person to
19 whom he was speaking?
20 A. Yes, I could hear directly both the persons
21 who were talking into the radio and the responses which
22 were coming to them through the radio speakers.
23 Q. The individual who was speaking next to the
24 car, in what language was he speaking?
25 A. English.
1 Q. And the receiving language that you could
2 hear was in what language?
3 A. Also English.
4 Q. Now, you heard the helicopter blades --
5 JUDGE ROBINSON: Just one more question,
6 Mr. Brashich. I'd like to find out, how long did that
7 conversation last?
8 MR. BRASHICH:
9 Q. Mr. Todorovic, how long did the radio
10 transmission, the two-way radio transmission, take?
11 A. Very briefly. Several minutes.
12 Q. Did a helicopter arrive on the scene?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. You could not see at that time; right?
15 A. I could not see, but I could hear the sound.
16 It was very loud.
17 Q. What happened after the helicopter landed?
18 A. They opened the trunk, took me out of the
19 trunk, and led me for some 50 metres over a bumpy,
20 grassy terrain to the helicopter.
21 Q. Did you get in the helicopter?
22 A. They loaded me onto the helicopter. I did
23 not walk on to it.
24 Q. Did you voluntarily go into that helicopter?
25 A. No.
1 Q. From the time you left the riverbank to the
2 time that the helicopter got there, did you voluntarily
3 stay in the trunk of the car?
4 A. No.
5 Q. From the time that you got to the riverbank
6 to the time that the helicopter arrived, did anybody
7 show you any identification?
8 A. No.
9 Q. From the time that you got to the riverbank
10 to the time the helicopter arrived, did anybody show
11 you a warrant of arrest or a court order?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Once you got -- well, you were put into the
14 helicopter. Did anyone say anything to you in the
16 A. No.
17 Q. Did anyone identify themselves during the
18 helicopter ride?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Were you shown, during your helicopter ride,
21 any warrant of arrest or court order?
22 A. No.
23 Q. How long was your helicopter ride?
24 A. About 30 minutes.
25 Q. Once the helicopter landed, what happened?
1 A. I was taken off the helicopter and taken
2 across some concrete asphalt surface, and I was brought
3 into a wooden structure, a prefabricated structure.
4 Q. At that point, when you entered that
5 structure, were you able to see?
6 A. No.
7 Q. What happened next?
8 A. Then my blindfold was taken off, and then
9 they cut the ties and the tape that my body was
10 bandaged with and I was put in plastic handcuffs.
11 Q. And there were people about you; right?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And could you describe these individuals?
14 A. The first men whom I saw were wearing SFOR
16 Q. Was anything said to you at that time?
17 JUDGE BENNOUNA: [Interpretation] Excuse me.
18 Mr. Brashich, could you ask the witness how did he know
19 that it was SFOR uniforms and that those were SFOR
20 uniforms? How did he know?
21 MR. BRASHICH:
22 Q. At any time before September 26, 1998, did
23 you have an occasion to see SFOR uniforms?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. On how many occasions?
1 A. On several occasions.
2 Q. So by September 26th, 1998, you were familiar
3 with the SFOR uniforms?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Was anything said to you at the time that
6 they cut the rope, took off the tape, and put plastic
7 handcuffs on you?
8 A. Yes. I was told that I was in the SFOR base
9 in Tuzla. They asked me whether I wanted to drink some
10 coffee. I declined. I had a drink of water and then I
11 was given a document to sign, and beforehand an
12 interpreter told me that -- said that anything I could
13 say could be used against me, and following that I
14 signed the document.
15 Q. At that time, were you being audio and
17 A. Yes.
18 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Brashich, could you find
19 out what document he signed?
20 MR. BRASHICH:
21 Q. You have just testified as to a document.
22 Was that document in the English or the Serbian
24 A. This document was both in English and Serbian
25 languages, and the text of the document was that from
1 here on, anything I would say could be used against me
2 and that I thereby acknowledge that this information
3 was given to me.
4 Q. Was any other document given to you at that
5 particular time?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Approximately what time in the morning did
8 you arrive at the Tuzla air force base?
9 A. About 2.00 in the morning.
10 Q. What happened thereafter?
11 A. After that, the commander came. He was
12 introduced to me as General Sinseki [phoen]. My
13 handcuffs came off and he sat me down across from him
14 and talked to me.
15 Q. Approximately what time of the morning was
17 A. That was around 5.00, 5.30 in the morning.
18 Q. Could you tell us what General Sinseki
19 [phoen] said to you and what you said to him at that
20 5.00 a.m. meeting?
21 A. He asked me whether I knew how I arrived in
22 the territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and I briefly
23 said that four unknown men had kidnapped me from Mount
24 Zlatibor. He asked me what Zlatibor was. I told him
25 that it was a tourist destination in Serbia, and that
1 four unknown persons had kidnapped me, that they asked
2 money of a cousin of mine. And then calling upon his
3 officer's honour, I said -- since I was here -- whether
4 he could call my cousin and tell him not to go there in
5 order not to risk anything further and not to undergo
6 any further stress. And the General asked me what the
7 telephone number was, and I gave him the phone number,
8 and he said that he may call him.
9 Q. How long did this conversation take -- how
10 long was this conversation?
11 A. This conversation lasted about ten minutes.
12 The General also asked me what they should do in order
13 to catch Blagoje Simic, and I told him that I didn't
14 know what they were supposed to do in order to get
16 Q. And Blagoje Simic is another defendant in
17 this case?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And he is the gentleman that has not been
20 arrested as of yet; right?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Did General Sinseki [phoen] exhibit any
23 papers to you?
24 A. No.
25 Q. What happened after he left?
1 A. After he left, a doctor appeared and he
2 conducted a detailed examination, which was also taped
3 on camera.
4 Q. Was the interview with the General taped?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. After the doctor examined you -- by the way,
7 were you in any way hurt?
8 A. Yes. I had a head injury. I had a
9 laceration and I had some blood in my hair.
10 Q. Who did that to you?
11 A. I sustained this injury in the boat, when I
12 was put in a boat. I felt a powerful blow and for a
13 moment I lost consciousness, and I felt something wet
14 and I felt hot -- something wet and warm on my face and
15 my head.
16 Q. After the doctor left, who was the next
17 person that you saw after the --
18 MR. BRASHICH: Withdraw the question. Very
19 cumbersome, Your Honour.
20 Q. After the doctor left, did you meet any other
21 individual with regard to your detention?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And who was that?
24 A. The interpreter told me that this was an
25 officer of The Hague Tribunal, from the Prosecutor's
1 Office of The Hague Tribunal.
2 Q. Approximately what time in the morning was
4 A. This was sometime between 10.00 and 11.00 in
5 the morning.
6 Q. Can you describe him for us?
7 A. It was a man, 40 to 45 years, with light
8 brown hair.
9 Q. Was this meeting with the representative of
10 the ICTY audio and videotaped?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. What did this representative say to you and
13 what did you say to him?
14 A. He told me that the ICTY had issued an
15 indictment against me, that they had a warrant for my
16 arrest, and that I would be transported to The Hague by
18 Q. Were you transported -- withdrawn.
19 Did he exhibit any documents to you at that
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. What did he exhibit?
23 A. I don't know exactly. There were some
24 photographs there and there were several different
25 documents, including the indictment.
1 Q. Did you travel to The Hague?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. When?
4 A. Sometime in the afternoon. We left around
5 1.00 or 2.00, and I arrived in The Hague in the early
6 hours of the evening.
7 Q. When you got to The Hague, where were you
9 A. I was placed in the U.N. detention unit.
10 Q. And are you still there?
11 A. Yes.
12 MR. BRASHICH: No further questions, Your
14 JUDGE BENNOUNA: [Interpretation]
15 Mr. Brashich, I have yet another question which I
16 should like the witness to answer. I believe that he
17 said that he had left Bosanski Samac in July 1998, and
18 I should like you to ask the witness why did he decide
19 to leave Bosanski Samac and move over to the Federal
20 Republic of Yugoslavia.
21 MR. BRASHICH:
22 Q. Mr. Todorovic, you were born near Bosanski
23 Samac; right?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And when you finished school, you became
1 employed, after some time, in Bosanski Samac; right?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. What was the date that you moved from
4 Bosanski Samac to Rudine?
5 A. In January 1998.
6 Q. What was the purpose of your move from
7 Bosanski Samac to the village of Rudine?
8 A. I moved mostly because of the job
9 opportunity. I could make much more money working for
10 a private company, and I had some other business in
12 JUDGE BENNOUNA: [Interpretation]
13 Mr. Todorovic, did you receive any threats while in
14 Bosanski Samac? Did you feel under a threat in
15 Bosanski Samac?
16 A. Nobody threatened me in Bosanski Samac.
17 JUDGE BENNOUNA: [Interpretation] Thank you.
18 MR. BRASHICH: If that has clarified, Your
19 Honour, the Defence has no further questions of this
21 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Niemann, I think we will
22 take the break now and return at 5 minutes after four,
23 and we will conclude at a quarter to five.
24 --- Recess taken at 3.55 p.m.
25 --- On resuming at 4:10 p.m.
1 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Brashich, I thought it
2 was Mr. Niemann's turn. Yes?
3 MR. BRASHICH: During the break, I remembered
4 three direct questions that I forgot to ask. By your
6 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes.
7 MR. BRASHICH:
8 Q. Mr. Todorovic, at any time, did you learn the
9 identity of the four individuals?
10 A. No.
11 Q. When you were in the trunk of the automobile,
12 on the other side of the river, did anybody besides the
13 four men touch you?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Who, and how?
16 A. I don't know who, but I felt, through that
17 tape, because a torch lamp was on, somebody had got me
18 by the chin and said, "Yes, that's him."
19 Q. Last question: During your conversation with
20 the general, besides what you have testified to
21 earlier, did he say anything else to you?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. What did he say?
24 A. He said to me, "See? We can do whatever we
1 MR. BRASHICH: Thank you, Your Honour.
2 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Niemann?
3 MR. NIEMANN: Thank you, Your Honour.
4 Cross-examined by Mr. Niemann:
5 Q. Mr. Todorovic, when you met the officer from
6 the Office of the Prosecutor of the Tribunal at 11.00
7 on the 27th of September, he informed you of your
8 rights; that's correct, isn't it?
9 A. I don't remember.
10 Q. He told you that a warrant was in existence?
11 A. He did.
12 Q. And that an indictment had been issued by the
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Now, did he beat you, or threaten you, or do
16 anything improper of that nature?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Was this the first time that you heard or saw
19 this person?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Now, I take it you weren't surprised to be
22 informed of the existence of the indictment.
23 A. No.
24 Q. Now, when you were put upon the helicopter,
25 you were blindfolded at that stage?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And in fact you were blindfolded for the
3 whole ride, through the period of time that you were on
4 the helicopter?
5 A. Yes, yes, during the whole ride by the
6 helicopter, yes.
7 Q. So you couldn't help us by telling us what --
8 or to whom the helicopter belonged?
9 A. I cannot say who it belonged to, but if it
10 landed at the American base in Tuzla, I don't know who
11 else's helicopter could land there. It had to belong
12 to them or somebody who was close to them.
13 Q. You said in your evidence that you had seen
14 people in SFOR uniforms on a number of occasions prior
15 to September 27th of 1998. Where had you seen these
16 people in SFOR uniforms?
17 A. The first I saw them on television, on a
18 television screen, and then I also had an opportunity
19 of seeing them on the road.
20 Q. And where on the road? In what part of the
22 A. In Republika Srpska.
23 Q. Can you assist us, is there any particular
24 part in the Republika Srpska that you saw them?
25 A. Well, I used to see them between Banja Luka
1 and Bijeljina, somewhere along the road.
2 Q. Now, you didn't see these people when you
3 were in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, did you?
4 A. I saw vehicles on one occasion near Zvornik,
5 by the Drina River; but otherwise, no, I did not see
6 them in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.
7 Q. And you never encountered or met anyone in
8 the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia from the Office of
9 the Prosecutor of the Tribunal?
10 A. I don't remember.
11 Q. Now, the people that you say captured you
12 from your house in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
13 spoke in the Serbian language?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And they appeared to be familiar with where
16 they were going? You didn't hear any discussion about
17 directions, or anything of that sort, did you?
18 A. Well, they were not quite sure, not all the
19 time, because meanwhile they were discussing whether to
20 go to the left or to the right, and things like that.
21 Q. You don't recall them getting lost, or
22 anything of that nature?
23 A. I don't remember that they got lost at any
24 time, but I do know they stopped off and would return
25 in the opposite direction and get off the road and
1 drive back and so on.
2 Q. Now, the civilian number plate that was on
3 the car that you observed, that was a civilian number
4 plate of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, or Serb?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And you saw that between the time you were
7 taken from the house to the car?
8 A. Yes. Before they put me into the car. As I
9 was walking toward the car, I saw that.
10 Q. When did they put the blindfold over your
11 eyes? At what stage?
12 A. They blindfolded me when they got off the
13 highway between Podgorica and Belgrade, and perhaps
14 after an hour journey, at an elevation where there were
15 neither houses, nor people, nor vehicles. Nobody was
16 passing by, nor were there any inhabited houses
18 Q. In answer to a question from His Honour, you
19 said that you left Bosanski Samac in January of 1998.
20 Is that correct?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Had you stayed in Bosanski Samac all of the
23 time, from, say, 1992 up until 1998, or had you been in
24 other places, lived in other places?
25 A. I lived in Bosanski Samac all the time.
1 Q. Now, you say one of the reasons that you went
2 to the Federal Republic of Serbia was because of
3 employment opportunities. Do you remember saying
5 A. Yes. Yes, yes.
6 Q. And you would agree with me, would you not,
7 that you also went there to avoid being arrested by
8 officers of the International Tribunal?
9 A. No.
10 Q. So that was not a matter that ever entered
11 your head when you moved from Bosanski Samac to
13 A. I didn't understand the question.
14 Q. It never occurred to you that it might be
15 advantageous for you to leave Bosnia and move to Serbia
16 in order to avoid being arrested on the indictment that
17 you knew had been issued against you?
18 A. I knew about the indictment, but that was not
19 the crucial, the decisive reason.
20 Q. I didn't ask you whether it was the only
21 reason; I just said it was one of the reasons. You'd
22 agree with me, would you not, that it was one of the
23 reasons why you went there?
24 A. Well, I wouldn't really know.
25 Q. Now, the money that was to be dropped off,
1 the additional ransom money of 40.000 Deutschmarks,
2 that was to be dropped off, if it was paid, at a gas
3 station outside Belgrade?
4 A. Yes.
5 MR. NIEMANN: Excuse me, Your Honours.
6 Q. Now, knowing of the existence of the
7 indictment that had been issued by the Tribunal, why
8 didn't you turn yourself in to the authorities in
10 MR. BRASHICH: Objection. Immaterial.
11 [Trial Chamber confers]
12 JUDGE ROBINSON: The question is allowed.
13 MR. NIEMANN:
14 Q. Would you answer my question, please?
15 A. Could you repeat it, please?
16 Q. By all means. Knowing of the existence of
17 the indictment that had been issued by the Tribunal
18 against you, why didn't you turn yourself in to the
19 authorities at either Tuzla or anywhere else in
21 A. I hadn't been finished all my private
22 affairs, things that I had to do. Perhaps I would have
23 turned myself in later on.
24 MR. NIEMANN: No further questions, Your
1 JUDGE HUNT: Mr. Todorovic, you told us you
2 really wouldn't know whether one of the reasons for you
3 moving to Serbia was to avoid being arrested on this
4 indictment. You knew about it. Why is it that you
5 call Serbia or the Federal Republic a country of
7 A. It was not a refuge. I basically went there
8 to work.
9 JUDGE HUNT: You understand, don't you, that
10 your application or one of your applications here is to
11 be returned to what is called your country of refuge;
12 that is, the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia?
13 A. I do not fully understand the term "refuge."
14 JUDGE HUNT: I see. All right.
15 MR. BRASHICH: May I be heard, Your Honour?
16 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes.
17 MR. BRASHICH: The term "country of refuge,"
18 I don't think my client has even seen the term. I am
19 using it as a term of art which I have purloined from a
20 number of decisions. That is my phrase to explain a
21 legal concept, and not the witness's.
22 JUDGE ROBINSON: Any re-examination, Mr.
24 MR. PANTELIC: Sorry, Your Honours. Just a
25 small intervention. Maybe a problem with the term in
1 the Serbian language, in these languages. May I have a
2 suggestion to the interpreters to use the word
3 "izbjeglistvo" instead of "utociste." There is a very
4 tiny difference between these two meanings of the same
5 word. [Interpretation] "Izbjeglistvo," in the sense of
6 a country where one goes when they feel threatened in
7 the country where they come from, either in the sense
8 of human rights or some other reasons. Thank you.
9 MR. BRASHICH: I would add to Mr. Pantelic's
10 Serbian explanation that a "izbjeglistvo" can also be
11 an economic -- an individual who has moved countries
12 for economic reasons.
13 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Brashich, I think you
14 can make submissions later. Do you have any
16 MR. BRASHICH: No, Your Honour.
17 JUDGE ROBINSON: I'd just like to ask the
19 Questioned by the Court:
20 JUDGE ROBINSON: In answer to Mr. Brashich,
21 you said the General said, "See, we can do whatever we
22 like." At what stage in the proceedings was that said,
23 or was it said in response to any particular comment or
24 observation that you had made?
25 A. General Sinseki [phoen] first asked me what
1 he was to do in order to get to Blagoje Simic, and I
2 said that I didn't know. Then he said, "You see, we
3 can do whatever we want to do, whatever we set out to
5 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you. Mr. Brashich,
6 you have other evidence, other witnesses?
7 MR. BRASHICH: For today, no, Your Honour.
8 As I had reported to the Registry, I have sent out my
9 investigator to contact the two witnesses that I
10 alluded to yesterday, and he was supposed to report
11 back to me today. I probably expect a message or a fax
12 at the hotel advising me of their availability.
13 JUDGE ROBINSON: We have the possibility --
14 and the senior legal advisor can advise me on this -- I
15 think we have the possibility of continuing these
16 proceedings next week, Wednesday and Thursday. At any
17 rate, after the contempt -- after the conclusion of the
18 contempt proceedings. That may take two days. If it
19 runs into a third day, then it would be Thursday that
20 would be available to us. If they are concluded on
21 Tuesday, then Wednesday would be available to us.
22 We would have to advise you as to the precise
23 date when these proceedings would resume, but we would
24 expect at that time, Mr. Brashich, that you would be in
25 a position to call your witnesses, if you have them.
1 Otherwise, I think we'll have to proceed to
3 MR. BRASHICH: Your Honour, with regard to
4 the two witnesses, they are short, and knowing the
5 judicial time is short and dear, one of the things
6 which I was contemplating, I did not have a chance to
7 speak to my client about it, but I would tender a
8 stipulation to the Prosecution. Attached to it would
9 be a sworn declaration. I don't think that the issues
10 which these two witnesses will testify to is going to
11 be in any way -- well, that's one of the thoughts that
12 I had.
13 The second thing, Your Honour, if the Court
14 is gracious to leave me some time on Thursday, perhaps
15 in the meantime, if the Court has the time available to
16 address the motion that I filed this morning, because
17 should that evidence be allowed by the Chamber, then I
18 would request a subpoena or a judicial fiat producing
19 the three witnesses that I had requested, the
20 documentary evidence, and the tapes.
21 [Trial Chamber confers]
22 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Brashich, we only just
23 received your motion shortly before this afternoon's
24 proceedings started. We're not in a position to
25 comment on it now. Indeed, I think the Prosecution is
1 entitled to respond to it.
2 We will take the adjournment, and you will be
3 advised as to when the resumption will take place.
4 We'll take the adjournment now.
5 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned
6 at 4.35 p.m., sine die.