Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 34188

1 Monday, 6 December 2004

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 --- Upon commencing at 9.06 a.m.

5 JUDGE ROBINSON: Before Mr. Milosevic calls the next witness, let

6 me say that this morning, we will, with the indulgence of the

7 interpreters, sit until 10.40 for the first session, and then take a

8 20-minute break, and thereafter we'll sit from 11.00 and the day's hearing

9 will end at 12.40 p.m.

10 Mr. Milosevic, your next witness is Slavenko Terzic.

11 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] That's right.

12 JUDGE ROBINSON: We considered an application to refuse this

13 witness, and we dismissed it, but that does not mean that you're at large.

14 He's an historian. Bear in mind that we have already heard evidence about

15 the history and background relating to this matter. So the Chamber would

16 like you to confine the evidence to recent history; for example, the

17 players and events that led to the conflict in Kosovo, the constitutional

18 practice in autonomous Kosovo, the build-up to the conflict, the

19 significance of the 1989 commemoration at Kosovo Polje.

20 You may call the next witness, Mr. Milosevic.

21 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Before I call him, Mr. Robinson,

22 could you please bear in mind the following: This is the first witness

23 who is an expert in history testifying about Kosovo and Metohija in the

24 20th century.

25 JUDGE ROBINSON: I bear that in mind, Mr. Milosevic.

Page 34189

1 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.

2 [The witness entered court]

3 JUDGE ROBINSON: Let the witness make the declaration.

4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak

5 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

6 JUDGE ROBINSON: You may sit.


8 [Witness answered through interpreter]

9 MR. NICE: Your Honour.

10 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes, Mr. Nice.

11 MR. NICE: Your Honour, before the accused begins his

12 examination-in-chief, I just show you the two binders of exhibits that

13 were served for use with this witness on, I think, Thursday of last week,

14 the majority or vast majority of which are untranslated. The

15 consequences, if any, of that difficulty, and of course it's been a

16 difficulty quite impossible for us to quite get round in the days since,

17 despite everybody available working throughout the weekend, is something

18 we'll have to come to later.

19 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes, Mr. Nice. If you are presented with any

20 difficulties that arise from that, we'll deal with them.

21 Yes, Mr. Milosevic.

22 Examined by Mr. Milosevic:

23 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Terzic, could you please give us your full

24 name and surname.

25 A. I'm Slavenko Terzic.

Page 34190

1 Q. Tell us a few words from your CV, but very briefly. Your CV has

2 been submitted along with your expert report, so just keep it brief.

3 A. I'm an historian. I work at the Historical Institute of the

4 Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts. I deal with the history of Serbia

5 and the Serbian people in the 19th century. I also deal with the history

6 of the Balkans in the 20th century. I participated in a large number of

7 international scholarly conferences.

8 I would particularly like to point out that I was the organiser of

9 a big historical dialogue of historians between the east and west,

10 entitled The Meeting of Civilisations in the Balkans. These were eight

11 big meetings, and I was head of the committee that organised this

12 conference.

13 Q. Thank you.

14 JUDGE ROBINSON: When was that conference?

15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] As far as I can remember now, these

16 conferences were held from 1995, 1996, until 2000. UNESCO supported the

17 project.

18 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes, Mr. Milosevic.

19 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

20 Q. Your CV shows that you've been in the Historical Institute of the

21 Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts for 30 years now and that you've been

22 the director of the Historical Institute of the Serbian Academy for many

23 years; is that correct?

24 A. Yes. For almost 30 years now I've been dealing with the history

25 of the Balkans. I was director of the institute for some 15 years or so,

Page 34191

1 from 1987 until 2002.

2 Q. Along with your expert report, you gave a bibliography on 18

3 pages, as far as I can see here. I would not like to refer to any of this

4 specifically. Is this what you consider to be the most important in terms

5 of your CV?

6 A. Well, these are papers and books that are important from a

7 scholarly point of view for this testimony. I particularly focused on the

8 history of the Balkans and especially the history of old Serbia or,

9 rather, Kosovo and Metohija.

10 Q. All right. You said that you deal with the history of the Balkans

11 and, inter alia, the history of old Serbia and Kosovo and Metohija. You

12 also worked on the monumental book The Legacy of Kosovo, which was

13 published in 1987; is that right?

14 A. Yes. This is indeed a capital work of Serbian science. The book

15 has almost 1.000 pages. It was prepared by a big team of Serb scientists

16 and scholars headed by academician Radovan Samardzic. It is a well

17 documented book. I was one of the many people who worked on it.

18 Q. You yourself stayed in the area of Kosovo and Metohija as a

19 researcher from 1995 until 1997. You went there many times; isn't that

20 right? So what is your experience as a researcher?

21 A. Yes, I went several times to Kosovo and Metohija, not only because

22 that is the most beautiful part of Serbia but for scholarly reasons

23 primarily.

24 There are two scholarly reasons why I went there. The first was

25 that the Historical Institute and the Prizren district, together with

Page 34192

1 Mrs. Furjanovic, who headed the district, we started in 1996 a scholarly

2 event called Days of History in Prizren. And also geographical and

3 historical research that was carried out by people from our institute with

4 colleagues from other institutes. This was a team consisting of ten

5 people. I headed the team. We toured the Prizren area, we searched for

6 the remnants of old churches, old monasteries, old cities, old cemeteries,

7 old inscriptions and everything that testifies to the history of the area.

8 Q. Tell me, please, first and foremost, in this research, one of the

9 results was a rather detailed map about Serbia and landmarks in Kosovo and

10 Metohija; is that right?

11 A. Yes. I have a map here that I would like to tender into evidence.

12 It testifies to the kind of land Kosovo and Metohija is.

13 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Mr. Robinson, I expected us to have

14 a board here, an easel, where the witness could place this map. Could

15 this please be organised during the break? Tab 1 among the exhibits

16 includes this map.

17 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Milosevic, had you requested an easel? Is

18 there one? I think there's one very near.

19 MR. NICE: There's often one at the door.

20 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes. I ask the usher to see whether he can

21 arrange to have the easel brought in.

22 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you. In order not to waste

23 any time, this exhibit is a map about Serbian landmarks in Kosovo and

24 Metohija. We also have it on CD. And you can see it on your monitors.

25 The technical people have received a copy of this map, and I hope they can

Page 34193












12 Blank page inserted to ensure the pagination between the English and

13 French transcripts correspond













Page 34194

1 display it.

2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I have a copy which is perhaps less

3 than perfect, but it can be placed on the overhead projector, if you wish.

4 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes. Yes. Have it placed on the overhead

5 projector. The easel is at hand.

6 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

7 Q. Please, could you explain this briefly? I would like to draw your

8 attention to the fact that you have a photocopy that is black and white,

9 so it's practically useless, because on the entire area of Kosovo and

10 Metohija, these dots that should be seen and that cover the entire

11 territory are actually red in order to have a contrast with the

12 background. However, on the photocopy this cannot be seen, so it's quite

13 illegible.

14 Mr. Terzic, could you please explain the map? As briefly as

15 possible.

16 A. This is the territory of Kosovo and Metohija. Ethnically, it was

17 the most homogenous area of the Serbian state from the 12th until the 16th

18 centuries inclusive. The Serbian church had its archbishop's office in

19 1284 onwards, and Prizren was the capital of the state from 1346 onwards.

20 This map was done by our colleague Mr. Vojic on the basis of our data and

21 those provided by others. So far, we've recorded 1.350 churches or,

22 rather, church monuments of the Serb culture.

23 I have the exact information here. Out of these 1.350, 1.181 are

24 remnants of churches, 113 monasteries and monastery remnants, 48 caves for

25 monks, eight memorials, 96 old forts, fortresses and squares, 76 remnants

Page 34195

1 of old cities from the 11th to the 15th centuries, 14 remnants of castles

2 of Serb nobility, and also a number of cemeteries of Serbs in Kosovo.

3 So that is the spiritual legacy that is the foundation of the

4 national identity of the Serbs.

5 Q. Thank you, Mr. Terzic. The history of this area is very complex.

6 Tell us briefly, what are the basic historical facts that had a crucial

7 impact on the history of this region in recent times?

8 A. Recent times for an historian can be the time from the 15th

9 century onwards, and I believe that three historical events had a decisive

10 impact on the history of this area. The first was the Islami conquest in

11 the 15th century. The Islami conquest in the 15th century actually led to

12 a conflict between two civilisations, two value systems, a clash between

13 the Islamic world and the Christian world in this area.

14 The consequences of this clash can be seen until the present day

15 in terms of what we are discussing now. I think that Henry Kissinger was

16 right, the former US Secretary of State, when he said in Prague on the

17 12th of October, 1998 - that is Exhibit 3 in my list of exhibits - when he

18 pointed out that as for the crisis of Kosovo and Metohija, its roots lie

19 in the centuries of interaction between Christianity and Islam in the

20 area.

21 The Islami conquest divided this part of Europe from the rest of

22 the European world for many centuries. The other decisive reason --

23 Q. Can I just stop you at this point? Do you have this article

24 written by Kissinger?

25 A. Yes. This is Exhibit 3 in my list of exhibits.

Page 34196

1 Q. All right. I would like to tender it into evidence, then.

2 A. Exhibit 3. This is his speech at the Prague forum on the 12th of

3 October, 1998.

4 Q. So on the list that you have, Henry Kissinger on The Historical

5 and Civilisation Reasons for The Conflict in Kosovo and Metohija the 12th

6 of October, 1998, the conference in Prague.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. So that is in English. And after all this map, too, this map is

9 both in Serbian and in English and all the markings are in Serbian and in

10 English, and in the original it was printed in the Serbian and English

11 languages and you can see that the heading and the text come in both

12 languages.

13 A. Yes, yes. I would just like to add that I'm the author of the

14 text on this map, Kosovo and Metohija and Serbian History. It's in

15 Serbian and in English.

16 Q. Thank you, Mr. Terzic. Please proceed.

17 A. The second reason, in addition to the Ismali conquest which

18 decisively had an impact on the area is the policy of the great powers

19 over 200 years, primarily the history of -- primarily the policy of

20 Austro-Hungary and Italy and Germany and so on. The great powers wanted

21 to put the Balkans under their control to create a system of satellite

22 states and also to fan hatred among the Balkan peoples which led to

23 frequent conflicts.

24 On the third factor that I would like to draw your attention to is

25 the policy of the communist international and of the Communist Party of

Page 34197

1 Yugoslavia headed by Josip Broz Tito which considerably affected this

2 increase in differences and stopped integration rather than promoting

3 cooperation. So I think that this had a decisive impact on the Yugoslav

4 territories.

5 Q. Mr. Terzic, there has been a lot of reference here to how Kosovo

6 became a part of Serbia. That is the phrasing that was used. And how

7 Kosovo can be part of the Albanian lands. How does European science see

8 Kosovo, especially cartography? This is something that is referred to in

9 Exhibit number 4 specifically.

10 A. As I listened to what some of my colleagues said here before the

11 Tribunal, and also in public, I was astonished by the fact that what

12 people were talking about is the return of Kosovo to Serbia, or the

13 occupation of Kosovo, or Kosovo as part of the Albanian lands. I'm not

14 going to proffer Serb sources here about this but I'm going to refer to

15 European sources, impartial European researchers and how they explain the

16 situation in Kosovo and Metohija. I'm going to offer six maps. Not a

17 single one is Serb. As a matter of fact, it can be said that most of them

18 come from our historical rivals like Austro-Hungary.

19 The first map that I would like to place on the overhead projector

20 is an old map but I would like to show to the Trial Chamber the concept of

21 the world, as far as Serbia is concerned, in the 17th century. I don't

22 know whether it can be seen here. If I place it here on the overhead

23 projector, I'll try to point out the relevant details.

24 JUDGE ROBINSON: Where is that amongst your exhibits? Exhibit 4?

25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It is Exhibit 4, yes, 4.1, Giacomo

Page 34198

1 Cantelli da Vignola. I'm sorry that you have black and white copies.

2 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

3 Q. Giacomo Cantelli da Vignola, 1689; right?

4 A. Il Regno della Servia detta altrimenti Rascia. Il Regno della

5 Servia, and the year is 1689. It depicts Serbia, as the title says, and

6 the southern border of Serbia on this map is on the Drim river, as you can

7 see, which is present-day Northern Albania. Below that it says Parte dell

8 Albania. That is to say to the south of the Drim river. At that time at

9 the end of the 17th century, that is where Albania was.

10 Another exhibit, 4B is the title of a map, Peter Kukulj. He -- it

11 dates back to 1879 -- 71. Old Serbia. The Princely State of Serbia and

12 Turkish Serbia. Old Serbia or, rather, "Alt Serbien," which is also Old

13 Serbia.

14 This is a map of a German researcher, Heinrich Renner, and it was

15 published in the book Through Bosnia and Herzegovina Up and Down. It was

16 published in Berlin in 1896.

17 On the map, the map of --

18 JUDGE KWON: Mr. Terzic, if you could put it vertically. Yes.

19 Mr. Usher could help him. Yes, that's right. Thank you.

20 THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

21 So the title of the book is, in German, Durch Bosnien und die

22 Herzegovina, kreuz und quer., which means Through Bosnia and Herzegovina,

23 Up and Down. It was published in Berlin in 1896. The author's name is

24 Heinrich Renner. In a map of Bosnia and Herzegovina -- I think we can't

25 see it well on the screen now.

Page 34199

1 In the part of the map which depicts old Serbia, you can see in

2 German Rascien. That means starting where around Prijepolje to Prizren

3 and close to Skopje you can see the words Rascien, meaning Raska. Germans

4 used to call this region Old Serbia, and sometimes Raska. This is after

5 the old Serbian medieval state of Raska.

6 One of the leading Austro-Hungarian Balkanologists and

7 Albanologists, one of the pioneers of Austro-Hungarian Albanology, Theodor

8 Ippen, a participant of the peace conference in London in 1912 published

9 the book Novibazar und Kossovo (Das Alte Rascien), so Old Bazar and Kosovo

10 (Old Raska). This book was published in Vienna in 1892. The title of the

11 entire map is Rascien, meaning Raska, and Raska goes from the Bosnian

12 border to Skopje. So this entire area is marked as Raska.

13 Then we have a map from British sources, Servia by the Servians,

14 prepared by Alfred Stead in London in 1909. An ethnographical map of

15 Serbia. So it shows ethnographic composition, and in the old part of

16 Serbia you see the words "Old Serbia." They're quite visible.

17 And the last map in this set that I'd like to show - and there are

18 plenty of other maps - is a map by a very famous Austro-Hungarian

19 researcher, and I purposefully selected researchers from Austro-Hungary

20 and Germany, is Dr. Karl Peucker. This is the fifth -- the fourth

21 edition, and it's from 1917, and it shows Macedonia, Old Serbia, and

22 Albania. The entire territory of Kosovo and Metohija is maybe better

23 visible in black and white copy, is marked as Old Serbia, Alt Serbia,

24 including Prizren, Urosevac, Pec, Djakovica, Pristina, and so on. This

25 entire area is marked as Old Serbia. Therefore, the entire European

Page 34200

1 science in 19th and early 20th century shows the territory of Kosovo and

2 Metohija as part of Serbia or part of Old Serbia; therefore, Kosovo and

3 Metohija never existed as an independent or separate historical ethnic or

4 geographical identity.

5 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

6 Q. Mr. Terzic, you used the term, and we could see it also on the

7 maps, Raska and Serbia. Could you please explain whether there's a

8 difference between the two terms, for those who don't know.

9 A. Raska is the name of the first Serb state created in the 12th and

10 13th century, and this is the embryon of the Serbian statehood. In

11 Western sources later on the term Raska was used to signify the entire

12 Serbia.

13 Raska also has its more narrow meaning, and in the 19th and 20th

14 century, including today, has been used to depict the area from Plevlje to

15 Novibazar. However, Austro-Hungarian researchers first and foremost used

16 this term to denote Old Serbia. Sometimes they say Raska, Old Raska, or

17 Old Serbia.

18 Q. All right. So these are all identical terms. Mr. Terzic, the

19 issue of the ethnic circumstances of this region caused numerous debates.

20 How do European researchers assess the circumstances in Kosovo and

21 Metohija during the past hundred years? Under tab 5 we have ethnic maps.

22 Let us go over these maps as briefly as possible, please.

23 A. Well, I followed this process, and this is an issue that

24 constantly caused different and controversial interpretations. I'm going

25 to express here only the positions of Western European researchers, and

Page 34201

1 I'm going to do that very briefly.

2 I mentioned that in 1871, in Vienna, the General Staff major of

3 Austro-Hungary, Peter Kukulj, printed this book, the Principality of

4 Serbia, Old Serbia, describing also ethnic circumstances.

5 On page 149, Major Kukulj, in Prizren region or Prizren Vilajet

6 says that -- or, rather, he depicts the religious and ethnic composition

7 of that area. There were 318.000 Serbs, 161.000 Albanians, 2.000

8 Ottomans, 10.000 Walachen, and 9.000 Gypsies.

9 As for the religious composition, there were 250.000 Greeks, as

10 they called them, or Orthodox believers, those who followed the Orthodox

11 rituals; and 219.000 Muslims where he includes also Gypsies, the Cerkezi,

12 the Ottomans and so on, and there were 11.000 Catholics. So based on

13 that, we can see that in 1871 in the territory of Kosovo and Metohija,

14 Serbian or Orthodox population was the majority.

15 We also have another map from Austro-Hungarian sources, from the

16 book Detailed Description -- I'm now translating this into Serbian, so

17 Detailed Description of Pljevaljski Sandzak and Kosovo Vilajet. This was

18 published in Vienna in 1899. So the map of Kosovo region or Kosovo

19 Vilajet, in Turkish terms, is depicted here. This is the first military

20 intelligence map, and as you can see, it bears the stamp of

21 Austro-Hungarian General Staff.

22 So this is the map and it shows the ethnic composition in Kosovo,

23 actually in the entire Kosovo Vilajet but I'm limiting myself only to

24 Kosovo. In the key of the map, under the term "Serb," you can see that

25 that includes the Orthodox Serbs, Serbs who were Bosnian Catholics,

Page 34202

1 Bosnian crypto-Catholics, and Serbian Muslims, and then we have

2 Macedonian, Slavs, Albanians and others, and so on.

3 According to my calculations, in Kosovo and Metohija in 1899,

4 meaning 105 years ago, the ratio between Serbs, meaning both Orthodox and

5 Muslim Serbs, and Albanians, including Muslims and very few Catholics, was

6 43 to 47. So 43 per cent of Serbs and 47 per cent of Albanians.

7 Then we also have two maps from British sources. One of the maps

8 was produced by Sir Arthur Evans The Slavs in the Adriatic Sea and On the

9 Route to Constantinople. The map accompanying this study -- well,

10 actually, let me tell you that Sir Arthur Evans is a well-known name in

11 British and European science. This is the diagrammatic map of Slav

12 territories east of the Adriatic - this is by Sir Arthur Evans - and I

13 will focus only on the south. I don't think that you can see this quite

14 well now.

15 In the southern corner of this map you can see the ethnic border

16 between Slavs, meaning Serbs, and Albanians. It goes -- actually follows

17 modern day Serbia, Albania border. So south of the river of Drim, you can

18 see Albania. This map is from 1916, from the time of the First World War,

19 so in yellow you can see this marked below Decani and Djakovica. So both

20 Decani and Djakovica remain in the Serbian sphere, to call it that way,

21 and this is according to Sir Arthur Evans.

22 The second map is a map by a famous British expert for South-east

23 Europe. I would say leading British expert for South-east Europe in the

24 first part of the 20th century, Professor Seton-Watson, a professor at

25 London University, published in London in 1917. This map depicts the

Page 34203

1 allocation of the races on the Balkan Peninsula, and I would like to focus

2 on the part which pertains to Kosovo and Metohija. You can see here

3 Albania, and in blue, the blue number -- the blue colour shows Serbs, the

4 yellow colour Albanians, and you can see that Kosovo and Metohija is

5 mostly blue with a bit of yellow denoting Albanian enclaves. So Professor

6 Watson was the chief advisor of the British government in the First World

7 War and between the two world wars for issues concerning the South-east

8 Europe.

9 And another map, with your permission, this is a map from General

10 -- German General Staff.

11 JUDGE KWON: [Previous translation continues] ... I wonder if you

12 could give me the tab number again.

13 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] These maps are under tab 5. These

14 are maps of European researchers researching ethnic issues, and all of

15 these maps are under tab 5.

16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] 5.4.

17 JUDGE KWON: There are several maps under the name of tab 5, so

18 you'd better indicate the specific number, please. I guess it must be 5D,

19 I guess.

20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes. Peter Kukulj was 5.1. Peter

21 Kukulj was 5A. Politician Einwohnerzahlen --

22 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] In order to save time, let me just

23 say that everything is written on the maps. Mr. Terzic just briefly went

24 through this map, but these maps are under tab 5, A, B, C and D. The map

25 of Seton-Watson is 5D.

Page 34204

1 JUDGE ROBINSON: I fully support Judge Kwon's question to you.

2 When you're leading the evidence, you should be telling the Court this is

3 5A, 5B, 5C, 5D so that when we come to deal with the exhibits, we have

4 everything in order and don't waste time.

5 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Very well.

6 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

7 Q. So Seton-Watson's map is 5D. German map is 5A. So we've now come

8 to 5E.

9 A. Yes, we have map 5E, which is actually Hitler's map or German map,

10 and it says Peoples of the Danube Region and the Balkan Peninsula. This

11 was published on the 16th of March, 1940, so on the eve of the aggression

12 against Yugoslavia. It shows the situation in the territory of Yugoslavia

13 and Kosovo and Metohija.

14 MR. NICE: Map 5C, the Court may have noticed, but it may have

15 missed it, map 5C is cut off -- I think it's 5C, is cut off short of what

16 was wanted by the witness. That's the Sir Arthur Evans map. So either we

17 should have 5C recopied so that it shows an area a little further south

18 than is shown on the map we have at the moment, or we'll have to refer to

19 the original, providing it's left behind.

20 JUDGE ROBINSON: You mean it doesn't [Realtime transcript read in

21 error "don't"] make his point.

22 MR. NICE: It doesn't make his point.

23 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

24 Q. Mr. Terzic, let us put back on the ELMO 5C just to see this

25 southern part that was cut off the photocopy.

Page 34205

1 A. I will gladly leave this map with you, and I can repeat it if you

2 wish.

3 So these are Slav territories east of the Adriatic, by Sir Arthur

4 Evans. Could we put this up a little bit? So this southern border

5 depicted in yellow, I'm now following that line, the yellow line. This is

6 the border between Serbs and Albanians. It goes up until Decani and then

7 here follows the line Djakovica-Prizren. Below Prizren, I don't know if

8 you can see that, it states "Prizren Imperial Serb City."

9 I will gladly leave this map with you so that you can make

10 photocopies as needed.

11 JUDGE ROBINSON: Let me just make a correction. I said it does

12 not make his point, not "it don't make his point," as is on the

13 transcript. Continue.

14 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

15 Q. Mr. Terzic, you say that it goes in. It is covered, but in this

16 map that you now show, we could see that the border loosely corresponds to

17 the modern day border between Serbia and Albania.

18 A. Yes. All of these maps that I went over just now more or less

19 confirm the border between modern day Serbia and Albania. The map of

20 Djakomican Deli [phoen] from late 17th century moves the border a bit more

21 south and places it along the Great Drim River, which is nowadays in

22 Northern Albania. However, all of other maps that we went over mostly put

23 that border along the same lines as modern day border.

24 Q. Mr. Terzic, significant events in Europe and in the Balkans always

25 had repercussions on ethnic situation. Can you tell me, when did the

Page 34206

1 radical ethnic -- when did the radical change in ethnic structure occur?

2 A. The Balkans is a very turbulent area with many wars, many

3 conflicts and, unfortunately, ethnic movements were very frequent,

4 sometimes due to blind forces, sometimes highly organised in the form of

5 ethnic cleansing. When we're talking about the demographic and ethnic

6 conditions in Kosovo and Metohija, I think that we can notice three phases

7 there in the radical change of the ethnic conditions or circumstances of

8 the area. The first phase was from the end of the 17th century up until

9 the middle of the 19th century. That would constitute the first phase.

10 And this ethnic movement was the consequence of the great war between the

11 Christian European League and Turkey. The Christian troops moved to the

12 Balkans, General Nimi [phoen] reached Skopje, he died in Prizren, and

13 there was a counter-offensive on the part of the Turks together with the

14 Tartars and the Albanians, and the Christian European troops withdrew to

15 the north of the Sava and Danube Rivers, together with the Christian

16 troops in 1690. We saw the withdrawal of 37.000 Serb families. So that

17 was the first great exodus of the Serbs which had a great influence on

18 changing the ethnic circumstances and aspect of that region.

19 From that period, that is to say from the end of the 17th century,

20 we had the gradual population of Albania from Northern Albania, Albanian

21 shepherds coming into the fertile regions of Metohija, and later on

22 Kosovo. They settled there. Serb ethnographies Atanasije or Losovic

23 [phoen] studied these movements in Kosovo and Metohija between the two

24 world wars and he established that approximately 68 per cent of the

25 population of Kosovo - so not Metohija, we're talking about Kosovo - and

Page 34207

1 Kosovo Moravian value, 68 per cent of the population were the descendants

2 of the settlers that came from Northern Albania. And I have this exhibit

3 here. I photocopied it too late but I can show you where these figures

4 are clearly stated.

5 The second -- so these changes were first of all the effects of

6 blind forces. The second stage which radically changed the ethnic aspect

7 the area was from the Berlin Congress in 1878 onwards, up until the

8 liberation of Kosovo and Metohija in 1912.

9 In 1978 -- 1878, in Prizren, we saw the formation of the Albanian

10 League, the Prizren League, with its programme of a Greater Albania with

11 the Bilota Skadar, Janina and Kosovski district or Vilajet, and I'll tell

12 you a bit more about the character of that league later on, but that

13 league put forward as one of its principles the ethnic cleansing of the

14 area which was to become part of the Greater Albanian state. The great

15 Vienna historian Konsanti Nurusek [phoen], a very famous famous name in

16 science in the 19th and 20th centuries, Nurusek established that from the

17 Berlin Congress in 1878 to 1912, from the Old Serbia about 150.000 people

18 moved to the Kingdom of Serbia. And perhaps the greatest change, the

19 third change in ethnic structure, took place during World War II and after

20 World War II. During World War II, and I'm going to talk about this later

21 on, a large portion of Metohija, or, rather, the entire area of Metohija

22 and a large part of Kosovo, came within the fascist Greater Albania state,

23 and on that occasion from Metohija and from Kosovo at least 100.000 Serbs

24 were expelled and at least 100.000 Albanians came to populate the area,

25 moved into the area, and I think that the greatest change took place from

Page 34208

1 1945 until 1990, I shall be speaking in detail about that too later on.

2 According to objective researchers, at least 250.000 Serbs were

3 displaced and expelled from Kosovo and Metohija from 1945 until 1990. And

4 the reasons were, first and foremost, pressure exerted from the Greater

5 Albanian chauvinists and extreme nationalists to have them expelled from

6 the region. So that were -- those were the key political moments.

7 Q. Thank you, Mr. Terzic. You said that later on you would tell us

8 at greater length something about the character of the Albanian League.

9 Could you do so now, please, to make up for lost time. Could you tell us

10 about the character of the Albanian League as of the Berlin Congress,

11 because you speak about this in your expert report, you talk about the

12 basis of their political programme which was laid down, and as you say, it

13 goes on to the present day. So what were the main features of the

14 Albanian League in Prizren?

15 A. The Albanian League in Prizren --

16 THE INTERPRETER: Could you slow down, please. Thank you.

17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The Albanian League in Prizren is

18 not only a far away historical event and occurrence, it has remained a

19 lasting inspiration to most Albanian political idealogues to the present

20 day. As it is mentioned very often, I should like to indicate in a few

21 words the character of the Albanian League in Prizren on the basis of

22 non-Serb sources, that is to say, foreign sources.

23 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

24 Q. We have Exhibit 6 in our material.

25 A. Yes. I have three sources within Exhibit 6 and I'm going to show

Page 34209

1 you them. The Croatian historian Bernard Stulli, for example, published

2 in 1959 in Zagreb, in Rad, a publication of the Yugoslav Academy of Arts

3 and Sciences, Volume 318, a very good study, a lengthy one. I haven't

4 photocopied it all but it's a very good study, and on page 323 of that

5 report, and since this has not been translated in English, I'm going to

6 tell you that on page 2 -- 323, Bernard Stulli quotes the Austro-Hungarian

7 sources that he uses, and he says the following: He says that nowhere

8 expressly in the statute of the Prizren League in Kararaname is mention

9 made of the Albanians and Albania. The political subject of the alliance,

10 says Stulli, on the basis of Austro-Hungarian sources, are quite simply

11 Muslims. And in article 7 it speaks about the need of the alliance from

12 the statute to have "our suffering citizens of the same religion in the

13 Balkans," and in Article 16 of that same statute he qualifies the stepping

14 down from the alliance as stepping down from Islam. And he's talking

15 about the Pan-Islamic character of the Prizren League there.

16 I have two more exhibits that I should like to offer up to this

17 Court. Miranda Vickers, for example. She's a colleague and published a

18 book Between Serb and Albanian, and on page 47 of her book in English,

19 Miranda Vickers quotes the British consul for Northern Albania. His name

20 is Kirby-Green, and his report dating to 1880, in which Mr. Kirby-Green,

21 among other things, states the following. So he was an immediate -- a

22 direct eyewitness of the Albanian League in Prizren. He says: "The

23 Albanian League is an organisation," and I quote, "of the most fanatical

24 Muslims in the country. Those people are now taken up with extreme

25 religious fanaticism and hatred of Christians. With the exception perhaps

Page 34210

1 of Mecca, Prizren is the most dangerous spot for a Christian to be in all

2 Mohammedan countries."

3 And I'm going to quote another source under number 6. It is a

4 sentence taken from the presiding office of the Berlin Congress, Bismarck,

5 which was published in the book The Italian Policy of Austro-Hungary --

6 The Albanian Policy of Austro-Hungary Under the Italians, The Albanian

7 Policy of Austro-Hungary and Italy from 1877 to 1908. That was published

8 in Wiesbaden in 1871, where my German colleague quotes the following. He

9 quotes a sentence, in fact, quoted by Bismarck, and he says: "Es gibt

10 keine Albanische nation. No Albanian nation exists."

11 Now, I do not claim that an Albanian nation does not exist, but

12 I'm just showing you this piece of evidence whereby Bismarck, the

13 presiding officer of the Berlin conference, at that moment understands how

14 much the movement is amorphous and not shaped properly, and Pan-Islamic.

15 And later on it did have the right, of course, to its national state,

16 however, within the boundaries of Albanian ethnic territories.

17 Q. Very well, Mr. Terzic, I think we've heard enough now about the

18 basic political character of the Prizren Albanian League.

19 Now, in your work, you indicate and I'd like to draw your

20 attention to pages 55, I think, and 73 to 77. I think that's where we'll

21 find it. You speak about the large scale ethnical cleansing of Serbs from

22 Kosovo and Metohija and a central part of the Old Serbia from 1878 to

23 1912, during that period. And you highlight certain documents which speak

24 about the terror, violence, crimes against the Serbs there.

25 Now, what are these documents that you quote from and rely upon?

Page 34211

1 A. This was a process in which you have many sources in European

2 archives that were published but many more were not published.

3 Q. We have under number 7, tab 7, in fact, just a few of these

4 matters and correspondence on Albanian settlements in Old Serbia and the

5 British diplomatic sources from Skopje, Belgrade, and so on.

6 A. I'd like to mention Serb sources first. I think that it is enough

7 if I just read the titles of the books that appeared in the second half of

8 the 19th century, for example, about what was going on in Kosovo and

9 Metohija. So I'm just reading you the titles of the books without

10 entering into details now.

11 The Lament of Old Serbia being one of them, a book published in

12 Zemun, 1864 by the head of the Decani monastery, priest, a priest named

13 Rahim Ristic. The Unfortunate Situation in Old Serbia and Macedonia is

14 another title published in Belgrade, 1882. Can We Help Our People in Old

15 Serbia?, another title in 1899. From the Darkest Europe, The Killings,

16 Lootings, Pilfering in Old Serbia, by the -- in Debar and Macedonia in

17 1896. Then correspondence about Albanian settlements, or Arbanon in Old

18 Serbia, 1898 to 1899, which was published by the Ministry of Foreign

19 Affairs of the Kingdom.

20 THE INTERPRETER: Albanian violence, interpreter's correction: Not

21 settlement, violence in Old Serbia.

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] This book was prepared, and it is

23 interesting to note that it was for the International Conference on Peace

24 in The Hague, the first international conference in The Hague, held in

25 1899, which was convened at the initiative of the Russian Tzar,

Page 34212

1 Nikolai II, and the Serbian government intended to internationalise the

2 question of crimes against the Serbs by tendering this book in French for

3 the conference in The Hague. However, because of great pressure on the

4 part of the Austro-Hungarian diplomacy on the Serbian King, it gave up the

5 idea, although the book was published and speaks about the 22 killings,

6 lootings, pilfering, rapes, and so on and so forth.

7 I should especially like to show you something else now. It is

8 the diplomatic correspondence conducted by the British diplomacy, which I

9 think is very objective because Britain always had very good diplomats in

10 the Balkans. And it is a book titled Correspondence. It refers to Turkey

11 1903. It is entitled Correspondence Respecting Affairs of South-eastern

12 Europe, and it is presented to both houses of parliament in February 1903.

13 I should particularly like to draw your attention to something contained

14 in that report. For example, if you look at page 88. I think you'll find

15 it, you have it in English. So on page 88, a diplomat by the name of

16 Mr. Young informs the Marquess of Lansdowne on the 9th of September 1901

17 the following, and you can see it here.

18 Q. May we have the second portion up on the screen, please. Yes.

19 The lower portion.

20 A. "Old Serbia is still an area of disturbance owing to the

21 lawlessness, vendettas and racial hatred of the Albanians." Jealousies,

22 as it says in the text, of the Albanians.

23 Q. Let's read what it says here at the bottom.

24 A. It says, "Old Serbia is still an area of disturbance owing to the

25 lawlessness, vendettas and racial jealousies of the Albanians."

Page 34213

1 Q. That's an English document dating back to 1903; is that right?

2 A. 1901.

3 Q. Very well, 1901.

4 JUDGE KWON: And page number was 88.

5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] 88. Yes, Your Honour.

6 On page 89, it says that the continuance of the oppression of the

7 Serbian population is shown and that 600 Albanians and 50 soldiers were

8 quartered on a village of 60 households. So were quartered on a village

9 of 60 households.

10 Of course you have all these documents. The previous answer was a

11 village of 60 households, reducing it to destitution, end of sentence.

12 129 is the next page. I'm sorry. It's not 129, it's page 102.

13 102. Yes. On page 102.

14 From spring to December 1901, due to Albanian terror, 250.000 --

15 250 Serbian families have been driven over the border since last spring.

16 These are just some of the exhibits. There's a lot -- there are a lot of

17 documents in Russian. I have just relied on these diplomatic sources,

18 which are very serious and objective when it comes to conditions

19 prevailing in the Balkans.

20 Q. Mr. Terzic, let's move on. We will very to be rational in our use

21 of time, although of course these are very important matters. There's no

22 doubt about that. But we will try to use our time as best we can.

23 Now, in your report you talk about the continuity of the Greater

24 Albanian idea from the end of the 19th century to the present day, and you

25 write about the support to that idea, or project, by individual powers of

Page 34214

1 the day, especially Austro-Hungary and then fascist Italy and then Nazi

2 Germany, and today the NATO alliance and some other powers.

3 Now, which documents show us the basic ideological foundations of

4 the Greater Albanian project dating back to World War II up to the present

5 day? And I think we have tab 8 with our next exhibits, but could you

6 explain that to us, please? Tell us what it's about and answer my

7 question. So which documents show the basic ideological foundations, or

8 according to you, what are the basic ideological foundations of the

9 Greater Albanian project from World War II to the present day?

10 A. Well, let's see where the problem lies. The problem lies in the

11 fact that nobody among the Serb political -- politicians and intellectuals

12 never questioned or challenged the right of the Albanians to have their

13 national state in the territories which belonged -- which were the mother

14 states of ethnic Albanian territory, if I can put it that way. However,

15 Albanian political leaders, under the influence of the great powers, for

16 the most part, had the ambition of creating a Greater Albanian state and

17 thereby they would jeopardise and were jeopardising, to all intents and

18 purposes, all neighbouring nations; Serbia, Macedonia, Greece, Montenegro,

19 et cetera.

20 There were a number of ideological foundations on which this

21 project was based, the first being Pan-Islamism, and I spoke about sources

22 talking about the Pan-Islamic character of the Prizren League in 1878.

23 And you can follow this process and its development almost to the present

24 day.

25 I should like to caution you that in 1998, in the region of

Page 34215

1 Drenica, we saw the liquidation or the break-up of a group of Mujahedin,

2 for example, which was called the Abu Bekir Sidik Group. And there were

3 70 Mujahedins in that group, 40 Mujahedins being from the Islamic

4 countries; Saudi Arabia, first and foremost, and Egypt too. So the

5 Pan-Islamism is number one, the number one foundation.

6 I think that this Pan-Islamic dimension of the Greater Albanian

7 project is being masked by Albanian political leaders and it was not by

8 chance that Mr. Rugova, who is a Muslim himself, in his cabinet, in his

9 offices has a picture of them together with the Pope.

10 The second ideological basis is Pan-Illyrianism. Pan-Illyrianism

11 was imposed by Austro-Hungarian diplomacy and there are a series of

12 exhibits to bear that out - I don't want to bring them up now - but it was

13 the assertion that the Albanians were the direct descendants of the

14 Illyrians. And as the Illyrians dominated in the central part of the

15 Balkan Peninsula, it was logical that the Albanians should dominate in the

16 central part of the Balkan Peninsula. Although sources show that from the

17 last mentionings of the Illyrians and the first mention of the Arbanasi

18 in the 11th century there was a gap of eight centuries. But

19 Pan-Illyrianism at the end of the 19 century to the present day became a

20 basis, a foundation for the concept of a Greater Albania and the concept

21 of ethnic cleansing because, allegedly, the Slavs came to Illyrian

22 territories, occupied them, and then it was natural, following on from

23 that logic, that they were cleansed from the area.

24 Q. All right. The Slavs came and occupied these territories in the

25 7th century; is that right?

Page 34216

1 A. We cannot talk about occupation.

2 Q. No, no, no. I'm just saying this under quotation marks because

3 you said the Slavs came to that area. When did they come?

4 A. Well, look, that is the time of the great migration of nations,

5 and if we were to speak in those terms, then all of Europe could be turned

6 upside down. Slavs came to that area in the 6th and the 7th century.

7 They came to the territory of the Byzantine Empire and the area of Kosovo

8 and Metohija. That is where Slavs had been living since the 6th century.

9 Although the Serb state came to encompass the area from the 12th century

10 onwards. So Pan-Illyrianism became a basis for the national romanticism of

11 the Albanian intelligentsia.

12 I have submitted some exhibits here. That is Exhibit number 8.

13 It can be seen from the memorandum that the form of Albanian intellectuals

14 sent to international factors in 1995, and it can also be seen from the

15 platform of the Academy of Sciences of Albania for resolving the Albanian

16 question, and this is dated 1998.

17 So in addition to Pan-Islamism and Pan-Illyrianism, there are two

18 other elements, and I would like to refer to that very briefly. That is

19 an ideology based on an ethnically pure region. This is unique to

20 South-eastern Europe where a people believe that no one else but the

21 Albanians should live in a particular area. There is a lot of evidence to

22 corroborate that. I would like to quote an official from 1943, Bek

23 Draga. He was -- Ferit Bek Draga. In 1943 he belonged to the puppet

24 government of the puppet regime of Albania. He said, "The moment has come

25 to eliminate Serbs and there are not going to be any Serbs left under the

Page 34217

1 Kosovo sun." I am quoting Hakif Bajrami and -- an Albanian colleague.

2 And this was published in the yearly archives of Kosovo in '78 and '79,

3 pages 313.

4 Another element is challenging borders with all of one's

5 neighbours. For example in the memorandum of the Albanian intellectuals

6 from 1995, which was signed by Rexhep Qosja, from Pristina, who is

7 considered to be the father of the Albanian nation, under quotation marks,

8 and he says in that paper that "all borders between Albania and Serbia and

9 Montenegro and Greece are colonial borders, and the resolution of the

10 Albanian issue calls for a shift in borders between Albania and its

11 neighbouring states," and so on and so forth. Of course, I can mention

12 many other positions from this memorandum, from this platform of the

13 Academy of Sciences. The Academy of Sciences says, for example, that

14 Albanians have been living --

15 Q. Please, please.

16 JUDGE ROBINSON: May I ask you a question. The concept of a

17 Greater Albania which you say existed in 1945 up to the present time, in

18 territorial terms, what was the additional territory that was sought in

19 1945 in relation to this concept of a Greater Albania; and today what is

20 the additional territory that would be reflected in this concept?

21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you for this question,

22 Mr. Robinson. I have a map and I can show it on the map. I don't know

23 whether this can be seen properly. The map of Ali Fehmi Kosturija, from

24 1938. So on the eve of the Second World War.

25 I used a red pen to mark this. So these are the borders of

Page 34218

1 Albania. This is Albania. These are territories that the Greater

2 Albanian policy aspired for in 1938. So that is a large part of the

3 territory of Montenegro, a large part of the territory of Serbia or,

4 rather, at that time the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, and a large part of the

5 territory of Northern Greece. There is yet another map which was

6 officially used.

7 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

8 Q. Please. This is Exhibit number 8, isn't it?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. The map of Ali Fehmi Kosturija?

11 A. Yes, exhibit number 8.

12 Q. Then there is a map of Greater Albanian from the time of the

13 Second World War. This is a map that was officially used in the Greater

14 Albania in the Second World War. This is a map of the Greater Albania

15 from the Second World War. So in addition to Albania, a large part of

16 Metohija was annexed to it as well as part of Kosovo, part of western

17 Macedonia and a part of Northern Greece. These are territories that they

18 believed should belong to them. So this is the Greater Albania from the

19 Second World War.

20 This is a map published in the German newspaper Der Spiegel in the

21 1980s. It was published in my colleague Jens Reuter's book, "The Albania

22 in Yugoslavia," Munich 1982. It shows best of all the borders of the

23 Greater Albania. So this is the border of Albania, as you can see, and

24 these are the territories of northern Montenegro that should belong to it.

25 This is a vast part of the territory of Serbia that should belong to

Page 34219

1 Albania. Then more than half of Macedonia. You see Skopje is deep into

2 Albanian territory. So it's more than half of Macedonia, including Skopje

3 and Bitola. And a significant part of Northern Greece with Janina as the

4 centre.

5 This is actually the clearest picture of the Greater Albania

6 which, you can see, aspired for an enormous part of its neighbours'

7 territories and has been a long-term source of instability and crisis in

8 the area.

9 JUDGE ROBINSON: I've seen the map. You have shown me the map and

10 the additional territories. What is the historical evidence that this was

11 the -- this reflected the policy of the political directorate in Albania?

12 Let's just deal with the last one, 1982, which is fairly modern. I mean,

13 you have shown us maps, but what I want to hear from you is what is the

14 historical evidence that this reflected policy?

15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] There is countless evidence. I

16 talked about the programme of the Prizren League which included four

17 Vilajets or districts. I have a map here of the four Vilajets, but these

18 were the Vilajets of Kosovo, Skadar, Bitola and Janina. This is

19 practically this entire territory. This was officially published in the

20 programme of the Albanian League in 1878.

21 The map of the Kosovo Committee that I showed a few minutes ago of

22 Vokshi, who is a member of the committee, shows the same thing, and many

23 statements made by Albanian leaders, for example, including the Prime

24 Minister of the Albanian puppet government, Mustafa Kruja. I have more

25 evidence here. So Mustafa Kruja, the puppet Prime Minister, made a speech

Page 34220

1 in 1940, and he spoke about the natural and historical roots of a Greater

2 Albania, "Grand Albania," and he, as Prime Minister of the puppet

3 government, said that these territories should belong to the Greater

4 Albania. After that of course there are numerous statements made after

5 the Second World War. I quoted some of them, and after the Second World

6 War dozens of maps were published of a Greater Albania that were backed by

7 a large number of Albanian political leaders. I quoted some statements

8 here. If we have enough time, there is the memorandum of the forum of

9 Albanian intellectuals of Kosovo sent to international factors in 1995,

10 and it says that the Albanian question has to be resolved as a whole and

11 that these territories should become part of the Greater Albania.

12 However, perhaps the platform of the Albanian Academy of Sciences

13 is even more evident. That is the top scientific institution of Albania.

14 I have it here in Serbia only regrettably, but it does exist in Albanian

15 and English, of course, and I think on page 14, though I'm not sure of the

16 page number -- on page 14, yes. Perhaps I can put that on the overhead

17 projector, too.

18 JUDGE ROBINSON: Before you do that, do you have any maps later

19 than 1982 that reflect the Greater Albania policy or is 1982 the latest

20 one?

21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] There are very many of them. And if

22 you could please give me a second. I would like to show the map of a

23 Greater Albania from a site of ANA; that is to say, the Albanian National

24 Liberation Army. I think this is a map from 1999 or perhaps even later.

25 The website is here. You can see the website here.

Page 34221

1 I have yet another map --

2 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

3 Q. Could you please explain this map first.

4 A. Just a second, please. I would like to prepare another map as

5 well. I do apologise.

6 The map of the terrorist Albanian national army more or less

7 follows the borders from between the two world wars, from the time of the

8 Second World War and from the 1980s. This is this map that dates back to

9 only a few years ago.

10 And also another map only from a few years ago.

11 JUDGE KWON: Before removing that map, if you could tell us what

12 the source of that map is.

13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't know if you can see it here.

14 Yes.

15 JUDGE KWON: [Previous translation continues] ... if you could

16 explain it.

17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] You see the address of the website

18 here,, webnews, page, et cetera, 252.

19 That's the address of the website where this map of the Greater Albania

20 can be found.

21 JUDGE KWON: No. You should tell us what website it is right now.

22 You don't remember what that website is like?

23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] This is a Macedonian website. That

24 is to say of the Republic of Macedonia where this map of the Greater

25 Albania was displayed. And I'm showing the address of the website here.

Page 34222

1 I don't know whether you have received copies of this map.

2 JUDGE KWON: It is not sufficient to have the website only.

3 JUDGE ROBINSON: I mean, it is not for the Chamber to go to the

4 website. You're giving the evidence. What are the additional areas on

5 this map?

6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Very well.

7 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation].

8 Q. Mr. Terzic, please return the previous map that you presented.

9 You didn't explain it. It's clear to me because I know the geography of

10 the area, but it's not clear to all who are watching the map now. Please

11 explain what it includes. Does it include the area of the present day

12 Albania?

13 A. I'm sorry. The dark area here is the Republic of Albania. This

14 part is part of the Republic of Montenegro, which should be included in a

15 Greater Albania. This part, Kosovo and the surrounding areas, are parts

16 of Serbia that should become a Greater Albania. The part that is marked

17 here with these lines is part of the Republic of Macedonia; and this part

18 is part of the Republic of Greece.

19 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Milosevic. Can you just tell us now, what is

20 the -- the evidence that this reflects, the policy of the political

21 directorate? Because to show a map is one thing, but I for one would like

22 to know what is the historical evidence that supports the territorial

23 extensions in the map. Statements from leaders? You told us about some

24 statements in the 1940s. Do you have anything like that to support this

25 map?

Page 34223

1 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

2 Q. Mr. Terzic, please return the other map to the overhead projector,

3 the one that you yourself said was used officially in the Second World

4 War, where you said that the area of the Greater Albania can be seen, the

5 Greater Albania that was created.

6 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Milosevic, let the witness answer the

7 question that I have asked. It's impolite to interrupt when I've asked a

8 question. Let him answer the question, and if you want to have it

9 clarified after he's answered the question, then you can ask him for

10 further clarification.

11 Go ahead, Mr. Terzic.

12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I will answer your question very

13 gladly. I can show yet another map, these two maps. I have understood

14 your question very well.

15 In addition to statements made by leading Albanian politicians,

16 and I refer to that, Predraga, the Prime Minister, Mustafa Kruja and many

17 others, I am offering two pieces of evidence here of leading Albanian

18 intellectuals from Kosovo and Metohija and Albania. So I'm offering the

19 platform of the memorandum or, rather, the memorandum of the forum of

20 Albanian intellectuals in Kosovo - unfortunately, I only have it in the

21 Serbian language - which fully presents the argumentation in favour of a

22 Greater Albania; and also I'm offering the platform of the Albanian

23 Academy of Sciences and Arts -- sorry. Memorandum of the forum of

24 Albanian intellectuals is dated the 28th of October. It was published on

25 the 28th of October, 1995. And the platform of the Academy of Sciences of

Page 34224

1 Albania, from Tirana, is the 20th of October, 1998.

2 Both documents present the same arguments, namely, the following:

3 That Albanian territories are divided among their neighbours; Montenegro,

4 Serbia, Macedonia, and Greece. That Illyrians lived in these territories,

5 and since Albanian are the heirs of the Illyrians - which is absolutely

6 incorrect; German science has proven the contrary - and now they say that

7 since the Albanians are heirs to the Illyrians, it is only logical that

8 they should inherit these Illyrian territories. And the platform of the

9 Albanian Academy of Sciences says, as a matter of fact, that the head of

10 Dardania was in Skopje, it is only logical that the capital of this new

11 state should be in Kosovo. Now, where is the problem?

12 THE INTERPRETER: In Skopje, Interpreter's correction.

13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The Albanians have a state today,

14 and that is Albania. Parts of the Albanian people remained living in

15 other states as national minorities, just like parts of the Serb people

16 remained in Albania as a national minority. There were at least 50.000 of

17 them then, also Macedonian Slavs, Greeks, and so on. However, Albanian

18 intellectuals believe that all those territories of neighbouring states

19 where Albanians live as a national minority should belong to that state,

20 the Greater Albania. That's the core of the matter.

21 JUDGE ROBINSON: Apart from Albanians intellectuals, is there any

22 evidence that this concept was embraced by the political directorate in

23 Albania?

24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] What political leadership do you

25 have in mind? Oh, yes. Absolutely. Everything that was done by Albanian

Page 34225

1 policy-makers, starting in 1912 when Albania was created, there is plenty

2 of evidence, a large quantity of historical material. The activities of

3 Kosovo Committee, the activities of Albanian government, subversive

4 actions on the border with Yugoslavia, the incursion of illegal terrorist

5 groups, illegal organisations in Kosovo and Metohija existing after World

6 War II. All of these organisations had their statutes, their programmes,

7 expressing the intention to create Greater Albania or, rather, to unite

8 all Albanians in one national state. Naturally these statements were also

9 uttered by the former Prime Minister of Albania, Sali Berisha, and other

10 figures and officials of Albania. And as you know, the state of Albania

11 has recognised the illegally proclaimed Republic of Kosovo. Kosovo even

12 opened its diplomatic office in Tirana in Albania. So I think that's

13 evidence enough that Albania has shown its open aspirations towards the

14 territory of a neighbouring state of Yugoslavia.

15 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Mr. Robinson, may I continue now?

16 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes. Yes, Mr. Milosevic.

17 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Mr. Robinson, as I understood,

18 you're interested in new information concerning these aspirations, facts

19 after World War II. All of the facts we heard from the time before that

20 cannot be challenged because these are historical facts.

21 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

22 Q. Therefore, Mr. Terzic, what about statements and documents issued

23 by Albanian leader who was in power for a long time after World War II,

24 Enver Hoxha? As far as I remember, there was a letter he sent to Stalin

25 after the conflict that erupted between Yugoslavia --

Page 34226

1 MR. NICE: [Previous translation continues] ...

2 JUDGE ROBINSON: It's leading, Mr. Milosevic. Very leading.

3 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Well, I'm putting a question to him.

4 I'm asking him whether he wishes to state something concerning that, and

5 that being an evidence of Albanian policy and its nature.

6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] This is a significant historical

7 question, and it's very difficult to give a brief answer under these

8 circumstances. There is a vast amount of historical material throughout

9 World War II, and I showed some of that. So throughout World War II and

10 after World War II contained statements of Enver Hoxha and many other

11 Albanian officials, statements given by many Albanian officials, members

12 of Albanian minority from Kosovo and Metohija. Then we also have Albanian

13 insurgency in 1896 and then in 1989 and 1990, their slogans chanted during

14 those rebellions, then slogans in Tetovo and Macedonia, and the statements

15 given by Albanian officials at the time which corroborate the fact that

16 Albanian policy-makers supported and worked on the establishment of the

17 Greater Albania.

18 Yugoslav security services have a large number of documents which

19 go to show that the Republic of Albania, starting in 1948 and then

20 throughout the '50s and '60s, infiltrated into Yugoslavia a large number

21 of sabotage groups, that they had very active intelligence activities

22 there. A lot of Yugoslav policemen on the border with Albania were

23 killed, a lot of border patrolmen, and so on, so that there is a large

24 amount of evidence which shows that there was a plan by the Republic of

25 Albania to establish the Greater Albania at any cost throughout the latter

Page 34227

1 part of the 20th century and today.

2 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

3 Q. Mr. Terzic, just to draw a parallel, you have a speech of the

4 Albanian Prime Minister given during the Mussolini regime in Rome.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. This is from World War II, at the time when, under Mussolini

7 sponsorship, Greater Albania was established. But also after 1945, in the

8 '50s there were speeches given and documents published by Enver Hoxha,

9 chief of state of Albania. So first we have the head of state of puppet

10 Albania during World War II and then we have Enver Hoxha as the head of

11 state of Albania. Do these two people have identical views?

12 A. I wish to quote, in response, the speech given by Albanian Prime

13 Minister Mustafa Kruja on the 30th of May, 1941 in Rome. This was a

14 lecture on economic circumstances in Albania, and I'm quoting

15 that: "Benito Mussolini and Adolph Hitler will ensure for the Albanian

16 people after the victory of the powers of axis and after the new world

17 order is established such a national state that will include the broadest

18 possible ethnic borders and be in very -- have very firm links with

19 fascist Italy."

20 This is a quotation from a paper published by Albanian colleague,

21 Hadri, Occupational Forces in Albanian from 1941 to 1945, published in a

22 historical journal of Yugoslavia in 1965 on page 42.

23 I have another piece of evidence here which can be seen under

24 tab 11.

25 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes. And after that you can move on to something

Page 34228

1 else, Mr. Milosevic.

2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] May I conclude?

3 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

4 Q. Yes, yes. Please go ahead.

5 A. So tab 11. Albanian lands, Kosovo, under number 1. This was

6 published in Rome in 1942. In the introduction to this book, and it was

7 written by a well-known fascist ideologue, Francesco Ercole. In 1927,

8 Francesco Ercole published a well-known book, fascist ethics. He was the

9 Dean of Messina University and also minister of national education of

10 Albania.

11 So in the introduction to this book, Francesco Ercole mentions the

12 statement of Mustafa Kruja pertaining to the Greater Albania and speaks of

13 the liberation of Albanian lands.

14 For the first time in the foreign literature, Kosovo is mentioned

15 as belonging to Albanian lands in fascist literature. So therefore in

16 this book published in 1942, in this introduction written by Francesco

17 Ercole where he speaks of the liberation of Albanian lands and mentions

18 specifically northern Greece.

19 You see, in this part in this beginning here, the liberation of

20 Kosovo and of Camurija and the annexation and so on. And then further

21 down on page 1 he mentions the Prime Minister of Albania, Senator Kruja,

22 and his speech given about the Greater Albania entitled Nascita della

23 Grande Albania.

24 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you, Dr. Terzic.

25 Mr. Milosevic, it's time for the break now. We have trespassed on

Page 34229

1 the time of the interpreters. We'll take a 20-minute break now.

2 --- Recess taken at 10.43 a.m.

3 --- On resuming at 11.06 a.m.

4 JUDGE ROBINSON: Please continue, Mr. Milosevic.

5 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.

6 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I have a strange sound in my

7 headphones, so could one of the technicians please do something about it.

8 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

9 Q. Mr. Terzic, very frequently in analysing the issue of Kosovo and

10 Metohija, the difficult position of Albanian minority in Serbia and

11 Yugoslavia between the two world wars is frequently pointed out. At the

12 same time, the renegade movement, the so-called Kacanik movement, is

13 frequently called the liberation movement. So can you tell us what it is

14 all about and what was the role of the Kosovo Committee between the two

15 world wars?

16 A. Yes. This is one of the questions frequently discussed, the fate

17 of Albanian nation. I would like to point out something that is

18 frequently neglected, which is that in 1912, Albanians were given their

19 national state. At the conference of ambassadors in London in 1913, the

20 borders of that state were drawn. In 1921, Albanian was -- Albania was

21 given international recognition. In 1926, the Florence Protocol was

22 established the borders between the kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes

23 and Albania. Therefore, from the international legal point of view, the

24 issue of borders was resolved.

25 But what is the problem? There are no ethnically pure states in

Page 34230

1 Europe or in the Balkans either. So a part of Albanian minority was left

2 living in Yugoslavia, just as a part of Serbian minority was left living

3 in Albania. People tend to forget as a rule that more than 50.000 Serbs

4 remained living in Albania after 1912.

5 The Albanian minority in Yugoslavia, to an extent accepted this

6 state. There were some loyal members of Albanian minority, both between

7 the two world wars and after the Second World War, but a portion of

8 Albanian minority opposed the new state through violent mechanisms.

9 Albanians had their own political party in the Kingdom of

10 Yugoslavia. That party was called Dzemijet. In the 1921 elections, that

11 party had 12 seats in the parliament. In 1923 elections, the party had 14

12 seats in the Yugoslav parliament. So some members of Albanian minority

13 did take part in the political life in Yugoslavia. However, the other

14 part of the Albanian minority assisted by fascist forces, first and

15 foremost, founded the so-called kacak movement. As far as I know, the

16 word "kacak" is a Turkish word. It means renegade.

17 So after the First World War from 1919 and up until 1924 there was

18 a lot of activity on behalf of the renegade terrorist groups against the

19 kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes. So the Yugoslav state wanted to

20 ensure law and order in that territory. Some of those renegades opposed

21 those attempts, attacked police, members of the army, attacked villages,

22 and these were very fierce conflicts in which, unfortunately, innocent

23 victims suffered. There were a lot of casualties among the policemen and

24 the soldiers. There were a lot of renegades who were killed but also a

25 lot of innocent civilians were killed.

Page 34231

1 However, this renegade kacak movement ceased to exist in 1924.

2 Between the two world wars, Kosovo Committee had the leading role in

3 organising Albanian activity. It consisted of immigrant Albanians, and it

4 was funded by the government of fascist Italy. Within the committee, the

5 leading role was played by Hasan Prishtina, Bedri Pejani, later on Druhad

6 Injagova [phoen], and so on. So throughout that period, between the two

7 world wars, the Kosovo Committee was funded by the fascist Italy for their

8 Greater Albanian oriented activities.

9 Count Ciano, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Italy, gave several

10 statements which confirmed this. Count Ciano pointed out on a number of

11 occasions that, as he called it, the Albanian irredentist movement in

12 Yugoslavia - I'm quoting - is a knife pointed at the spine of Yugoslavia.

13 Q. As you're quoting Count Ciano in your paper on page 60, you quote

14 Count Ciano, the then Minister of Foreign Affairs of the fascist Italy,

15 statement given in 1939 about Albania which will be a fortress ruling

16 Europe. So do you see any similarity between those statements and the

17 statements given during the past 20 years?

18 A. Well, just for the benefit of the Chamber, let me tell you that

19 Italy occupied Albania on the 7th of April, 1939. In 1939, in Vienna, in

20 May, a German-Italian treaty was signed by Hitler's Minister of Foreign

21 Affairs Ribbentrop and Italian Minister of Foreign Affairs, Count Ciano.

22 On that occasion, Count Ciano, as is recorded in his own diary, stated to

23 Ribbentrop that Albania had a very significant role in the future

24 processes in the Balkans and in the Mediterranean. And again as recorded

25 in Count Ciano's diary, Ribbentrop was "delighted with our efforts to turn

Page 34232

1 Greater Albania into a fortress which will rule the Balkans ruthlessly."

2 So to turn it into a fortress which will rule the Balkans ruthlessly.

3 I have an impression that the recent events of the past ten years

4 in the Balkans are actually an attempt to create under new circumstances a

5 new fortress which perhaps will not rule the Balkans but will at any hand

6 be one of the centre -- centres for drug trafficking, human trafficking

7 and so on and one of the strongholds of radical Islam in this part of

8 Europe.

9 Q. Thank you. The Second World War and the break-up of Yugoslavia

10 and occupation of Yugoslavia influence the fate of Kosovo and Metohija and

11 all the surrounding regions and part of Kosovo and Metohija then, as we

12 saw according to the maps for the first time entered within the

13 composition of the Greater Albania.

14 Now, what did this dismemberment of Yugoslavia or fragmentation of

15 Yugoslavia look like at the time?

16 A. I have Exhibit 10 here. It is a map from Wolfgang Petrich,

17 Kosovo. It is a German map which shows the fragmentation or dismemberment

18 of Yugoslavia. The Kingdom of Yugoslavia was attacked on the 6th of

19 April, 1941, with a violent attack, brutal attack on the part of fascist

20 Germany, Italy, Bulgaria, and the brutal bombing of Belgrade when the

21 national library was destroyed in its entirety, and very quickly the

22 country fell apart. And the map shows how this was done in 1941 and what

23 was created. A Nazi Ustasha Croatia was established. A lot of territory

24 was attached to Hungary. Italy or, rather, Montenegro was under Italian

25 protectorate, and a considerable portion of Serbia or, rather, Yugoslavia,

Page 34233

1 came under Bulgaria, and as we can see, large portions of Kosovo and

2 Metohija were conjoined to the greater fascist Albania. And I have to say

3 here that the whole of Metohija was attached to Greater Albania and part

4 of Kosovo with the proviso that the Kosovo-Mitrovica district, Vucitrn

5 district, and Podujeva district remained in the German zone within the

6 frameworks of Serbia, the Serbia of General Nedic and the puppet

7 government under German power and authority. So the Germans wanted to

8 hold control of the Trepca mine, for it to remain in the German zone, and

9 parts of Kosovo, Gnjilane, the Gnjilane district and the Urosevac district

10 and Sirinicka Zupa comprised Greater Albania. So the greatest portion of

11 Metohija and a part of Kosovo were attached to Greater Albania and a small

12 part came under the Germans and another portion came under the Bulgarian

13 occupying forces.

14 So that was the great tragedy of the country, which took its toll,

15 enormous toll in bloodshed. Up to a million Serbs overall on the whole

16 territory of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia.

17 Q. Now, propaganda at the time dating back to those days, fascist

18 Nazi propaganda, it depicted part of the occupation of Yugoslavia and

19 Greece as being the liberation of those territories, and you quoted a

20 moment ago Francesco Ercole. Now, is it upon him that you base this

21 assertion or do you have some other evidence and proof to bear that out?

22 A. Immediately after the occupation by Italy and the creation of a

23 Greater Albania, the Fascist Party of Albania was founded, and the Fascist

24 Party of Albania had its journal called Tomori, and in this party journal

25 from one day to the next, from one issue to the other, they celebrated the

Page 34234

1 so-called liberation of Kosovo, Western Macedonia, and Camurija, and

2 Camurija is the epirus region or, rather, Northern Greece. There are

3 enormous -- there is enormous amount of evidence. I mentioned the speech

4 by Mustafa Kruja and the book The Albanian Lands of Kosovo. As I say,

5 there is a lot of evidence to the fact that fascist Italy portrayed the

6 occupation of part of the territory of Yugoslavia and Greece as being the

7 liberation of those lands.

8 And I have to emphasise at this point that the Atlantic treaty

9 expressly stated and emphasised that it would not recognise the borders

10 that were changed by the fascist occupation.

11 Q. Thank you, Mr. Terzic. Now, according to foreign sources,

12 including German ones, the Albanian fascists committed mass crimes against

13 the Serbs in Kosovo and Metohija during World War II. There are facts and

14 figures stating that camps for Serbs were set up in Kosovo and Metohija

15 and Albania. Now, what is the number of killed Serbs in that area that

16 we're talking about? Was the figure? What figure do we have?

17 A. I have tab 12 here before me, which is a map once again, a map, as

18 I say, taken from Serge Krizman's book, Maps of Yugoslavia At War, a total

19 of six maps in all, published in Washington in 1943, on the basis of

20 American sources and data.

21 The number of Serbs killed by Albanians from April 1941 until

22 August 1942, as it says on the map, amounted to a figure of approximately

23 10.000 Serbs in Kosovo and Metohija. So that without doubt is the correct

24 figure. Although some researchers, amongst them Bishop Atanasije Jevtic

25 consider that this number is higher than that and that it numbers several

Page 34235

1 tens of thousands of Serbs.

2 Of course, when it comes to the politics and policy of ethnic

3 cleansing of Serbs from Kosovo and Metohija during World War II, within

4 the frameworks of a Greater Albania, in addition to the map that I mention

5 here, I should also like to mention some more facts and figures.

6 Q. Just a moment, please.

7 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Mr. Robinson, here in the transcript

8 it says that the number of Serbs killed by the Albanians from '41 --

9 Professor Terzic said from April '41 to August '42, so just in that

10 period. And here it in the transcript it just says '41 but not April '41.

11 So from April 1941 until August 1942.

12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes. As it says until August 1942.

13 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

14 Q. Yes, until August 1942, which is what the source says, but please

15 continue.

16 So according to that source, 10.000 were killed.

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Until August 1942 alone.

19 A. I would like to quote some more sources, if I may, which bear that

20 out. Mustafa Kruja, the Prime Minister, was in Kosovo in June 1942, and

21 at a meeting with the leaders of -- Albanian leaders of Kosovo and

22 Metohija, he said, among other things, the following, and I quote: "We

23 should endeavour to ensure that the Serb population of Kosovo be -- the

24 area be cleansed of them and all Serbs who had been living there for

25 centuries should be termed colonialists and sent to concentration camps in

Page 34236

1 Albania. The Serb settlers should be killed." And the source for this

2 are the books of Dimitrije Bogdanovic, entitled The Book on Kosovo,

3 published in Belgrade 1990, page 2428, and Genfer, the German colleague,

4 Albanians Nationale Frage, in his book Der Kosovo-Konflict, Munich 2000,

5 page 158.

6 Bishop Atanasije Jevtic, which is Exhibit 26, said that during

7 World War II a number of camps for Serbs were set up in Albania, and he

8 gives the example of the Porto Romano at Drac, that camp, where in April

9 1943, there were about 900 Serbs incarcerated there, 600 of those Serbs

10 were from Gnjilane alone, and Bishop Atanasije Jevtic says that in the

11 Istok parish, that is to say in this small parish, during the war 102

12 Serbs were killed during the war. In the Lipljan and Donja Kostunica

13 parish, the number was 62 Serbs killed, and the German plenipotentiary for

14 the south-eastern parts from the end of 1943, his name was Hermann

15 Neubacher, says the following in his memoirs published in Gottingen in

16 1953, and I quote: "The siptars hurried to expel as many Serbs as

17 possible from the country, and I intervened with Dzafer Deva. And in

18 addition to that, after 1941, there was a great deal of misfortune that

19 was caused."

20 And then we have a British source as well. It is tab 15 on our

21 list of exhibits, in which the British -- a British major, John Henniker,

22 Major John Henniker, attached to the Main Staff of Serbia in 1944 -- and

23 that is tab 15. Unfortunately, we have it in Bulgarian, the foreign

24 office document, and it says the following: "This area -" and he's

25 talking about Old Serbia, and I quote Henniker: "Despite the fact that

Page 34237

1 this area is considered to be the cradle of Serbdom and Serbhood and the

2 Serb Nation, it is not predominantly Serb any more. During the war,

3 Henniker says, the colonists, it was controlled by the ballistas who

4 expelled the Serb minority and engaged in brutal acts of violence, says

5 Henniker on page 169 of tab 15.

6 So these then are just some facts to illustrate the extent to

7 which the crimes and ethnic cleansing of Serbs took place in Kosovo and

8 Metohija.

9 Q. After --

10 MR. NICE: That, of course, is an exhibit par excellence that it's

11 going to be almost impossible to deal with, and the accused has got to

12 recognise, and I'm sure as he becomes increasingly engaged in the process,

13 he will, there are two aspects to the problem of the translation of

14 exhibits. One is that they've got to be translated into English or they

15 simply cannot be worked on by the Chamber and by the Prosecution; and two,

16 that there is a necessary lead time, and it's quite substantial, for the

17 Prosecution to read a bulk of material of this kind. My job is not here

18 simply to fight a case in a conventional way. It's here to assist the

19 Chamber through the process of cross-examination in its duty of

20 establishing the truth. And so to bring a Bulgarian document a couple of

21 days before simply makes my task and my duty impossible to perform.

22 JUDGE ROBINSON: I think the point is well taken, Mr. Milosevic,

23 and you must bear that in mind.

24 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Mr. Robinson, these are original

25 pieces of evidence, and I had far less favourable conditions than does

Page 34238

1 Mr. Nice to read through piles and piles of binders as exhibits during the

2 cross-examination and for the cross-examination of witnesses and the

3 examination conducted by Mr. Nice. So we can't even begin to talk about

4 any equality of arms there.

5 JUDGE ROBINSON: Did you attempt to get this translated, the

6 Bulgarian?

7 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I provided them with all these

8 documents and exhibits, some far earlier, some a week ago, so I did expect

9 them to be translated. Yes, I did provide them, of course.

10 JUDGE ROBINSON: A week ago, as far as I understand, is not enough

11 lead time. My understanding is that you need at least -- how much time is

12 it, Mr. Nice?

13 MR. NICE: Two weeks at least.

14 JUDGE ROBINSON: At least two weeks.

15 MR. NICE: That's the B/C/S, not for another language.

16 JUDGE ROBINSON: That's true.

17 MR. NICE: If I may, just one correction to the accused's

18 observation about comparable or incomparable circumstances. I accept that

19 in the Prosecution's case some documents were produced late, but for the

20 most part, they were produced in accordance with the Court's order right

21 at the beginning, and they were available for him to examine at a very

22 early date. I expect Ms. Dicklich will give me the date.

23 Further, as soon as -- the 31st of May of 2002 is the date when

24 the majority of the exhibits were handed over.

25 Further, he was then re-served with exhibits on a

Page 34239

1 witness-by-witness basis as early as we were able to identify those

2 exhibits associated with a particular witness for his convenience. In

3 contradistinction to that, the Chamber's order to the accused to produce

4 his exhibits was not complied with on time, and many - and I haven't

5 bothered to go through it - many if not the majority of these exhibits

6 simply were never on his list. So he's in double non-compliance.

7 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Milosevic, the Chamber is keen to know that

8 you're making a bona fide effort to comply with the Rules. If the Chamber

9 determines that you are not making a bona fide effort in the sense that

10 you don't regard compliance with the Rules to be necessary, we will take

11 the necessary measures, and I warn you of that.

12 Yes, Mr. --

13 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Mr. Robinson, I should like to say

14 that I am doing my very best to provide all the exhibits on time for them

15 to be able to be translated on time, but something goes beyond one's

16 physical possibilities. But let me remind you and Mr. Kwon of the days

17 when Mr. Richard May was the Presiding Judge, that when I made objections

18 to the very late providing of the binders by Mr. Nice, that I very often

19 received the answer that, yes, according to the schedule for the

20 cross-examination, it will be tomorrow, so you can go through the

21 documents in the course of the night. And I'm sure you will remember

22 that, Mr. Robinson.

23 Mr. Nice wasn't able -- wasn't only given a night to look through

24 the documents but a number of days.

25 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes, but in most cases, those would have been

Page 34240

1 translated into your language. I remember, of course, that there were

2 instances when they were not translated. Nonetheless, let us proceed.

3 Yes, Dr. Terzic. Yes?

4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Might I be allowed to make a

5 correction to what Mr. Nice said? All the exhibits that I'm offering up

6 here are on the list of exhibits which we provided. That's one point.

7 Now, unfortunately, the document that I just used was published in

8 Bulgarian, this particular one. However, at the end of the document, at

9 the bottom of the document, you have the exact source identification.

10 Public record office, it says, and the registration number of the document

11 in English. Of course, I am very sorry that I was not able to provide the

12 document in English and have it in English myself, but it is nonetheless

13 an authentic document which our colleagues in Bulgaria translated from

14 English into Bulgarian, and I used it as such, as an authentic document.

15 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

16 Q. I asked you, Mr. Terzic, something about the 2nd Prizren League.

17 After the capitulation of Italy, in Prizren we saw the foundation of the

18 2nd Prizren League, as it was called, which addressed Hitler with the

19 request to set up volunteer SS divisions. So what role did that 21st SS

20 Division that was called the Skenderbeg Division have in the crimes

21 committed in 1943 and '44?

22 A. Yes, that's an important question. It's important for two

23 reasons. The first reason is this: The 2nd Prizren League, in actual

24 fact, laid the political programme for a -- laid down the political

25 programme for a Greater Albania with the help of Nazi Germany after the

Page 34241

1 capitulation of Italy. And secondly, the Central Committee of that 2nd

2 Prizren League formed its SS units, which had a dual function. Those SS

3 units on the one hand were supposed to protect the withdrawal of groups of

4 the German E army from Greece towards Central Europe, and on the other

5 hand, those SS units were supposed to be the military power behind the 2nd

6 Prizren League for an alleged defence of Kosovo.

7 The 2nd Prizren League was established in mid-September 1943 in

8 Prizren under the auspices of the German Reich after the capitulation of

9 Italy. And the president of the Central Committee of that league, on the

10 29th of March, 1944 - and that is in Exhibit 13 - addressed Adolf Hitler

11 through a letter, in a letter. He offered an alliance for the Nazi forces

12 and proposed that the 2nd Prizren League in Kosovo and Metohija should

13 mobilise forces numbering 120 to 150.000 men as assistance and

14 reinforcement to the German forces. And Bedri Pejani, in his letter to

15 Adolf Hitler, that is to say in addition to offering military cooperation,

16 also offers the formation of the first SS division of Albania, an Albanian

17 volunteer division. He is seeking modern weapons from the Germans, he is

18 also seeking -- and all this is contained in the letter as you have it.

19 He asks for instructors to be sent, a German command cadre, command staff,

20 and at the end of the letter he goes on to say, and I quote, he requests

21 strategic -- "rectification on a strategic base of the Albanian borders

22 towards Serbia." As far as temporary borders are concerned, and the

23 temporary border he considered to be the frontier between fascist Italy

24 and fascist Germany, so temporary borders towards Montenegro and Serbia,

25 which in 1941 was decided upon between the German Reich and Italy, and it

Page 34242

1 placed Kosovo in a disadvantageous position. Not only from a purely

2 strategic viewpoint but also in the national and historical sense. With

3 the present borders as they stand, it is very difficult to defend Kosovo

4 and Albania from a Serb-Montenegrin onslaught both during this war and in

5 the days to follow the war.

6 So the Germans allowed the formation of the SS division, and

7 during May 1944, the 21st SS Volunteer Albania Division was established,

8 which numbered about 10.000 men. And it was planned to form a core as

9 well, a core -- an Albanian core within the frameworks of German fascist

10 forces. And in June 1944, Hitler received the leader of the 2nd Prizren

11 League, Dzafer Deva, on which occasion they discussed the so-called plan

12 for the defence of Kosovo.

13 What I want to say by telling you all this, and what is vital for

14 the development of conditions after World War II, is this: There were

15 crimes which the 21st SS Division committed in Kosovo and Metohija against

16 the population in the border regions between Kosovo and Metohija and

17 Montenegro. And let me quote a specific example. On the 28th of June,

18 for instance, 1944, in the village of Velika, the Andrijevica

19 municipality, which is the border between Montenegro and Serbia, or

20 rather, Kosovo and Metohija and Montenegro --

21 Q. But Andrijevica is Montenegrin.

22 A. Yes, Andrijevica is in Montenegro but it's in the border belts.

23 On the 28th of July, 1944 during just one single day, this SS division

24 killed 380 people, of which 120 were children and 300 houses were burnt.

25 In addition to the other crimes, the 21st SS Division was

Page 34243

1 prominent in annihilating the Jews of Kosovo and Metohija, for example.

2 On the 14th of May, 1944, in the camp in Pristina, the SS division or,

3 rather, the units of the SS division collected together about 400 Jews

4 from Pristina and the rest of Kosovo and Metohija and sent them to the

5 Bergen-Belsen camp from which none of them or -- returned, or hardly any

6 returned. So those are just some of the crimes committed by this SS

7 division.

8 But I have to say that this isn't the only input of the Albanian

9 SS division. Of the 13th SS Division of the Bosnian Herzegovinian

10 Muslims, for example, which was called the Handzar Division, there was the

11 28th Albania regiment, and Franz Mathaas, the commander of the 28th

12 regiment, in a statement to the Yugoslav authorities, said that he was

13 himself surprised and taken aback by the brutality exercised by this 28th

14 regiment against the Serb population in Srem and Semberija in the spring

15 of 1944.

16 Q. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Terzic. We have to move on more

17 quickly.

18 You are aware of the crimes committed against the Serbs in Pec and

19 in the surrounding area by the Nazi Ballista forces of the Prizren League.

20 Do you know anything about that? Very briefly, please.

21 A. In addition to the SS division which had about 10.000 men, the 2nd

22 Prizren League also established the so-called Kosovo Regiment, Regiment e

23 Kosoves under the auspices of Dzafer Deva. This Kosovo Regiment, in

24 addition to other crimes, committed a mass crime in Pec in Metohija from

25 the 4th to the 8th of December, 1943. This is Exhibit 14.

Page 34244

1 I'm not going to quote the entire report, but the core of the

2 matter is that the -- from the 4th to the 8th of December, 1943 in Pec, at

3 least 108 persons were killed, civilians, at that. Out of these 108, 104

4 were Serbs and four were Albanians. There are detailed quotations

5 referring to this in the exhibit I mentioned.

6 Q. What do you know about Saban Poluza and the uprising after the

7 German forces withdrew from Kosovo from December '44 until 1945?

8 A. I know that this was discussed extensively before this Trial

9 Chamber, and I think that Mr. Klaus Naumann mentioned this matter but in a

10 completely different context.

11 The Nazi forces of the SS division whose top leadership withdrew

12 together with the Germans to Vienna in 1944 and other organisations, like

13 Balli Komitar and others, most of their personnel remained in Kosovo and

14 Metohija; that is to say, the majority of the SS division and the Regiment

15 e Kosoves. These forces organised themselves for the so-called defence of

16 Kosovo. Four zones were established to defend Kosovo. One zone included

17 the area of Skopska Crna Gora. So that is Northern Macedonia, facing

18 Southern Serbia. The other zone included Sar Planina from Tetovo to

19 Struga. The third zone encompassed Drenica and the area towards

20 Montenegro. And the fourth zone was Sala and the area near Kopaonik.

21 That was the plan for the defence of Kosovo by the anti-fascist forces of

22 the National Liberation Army of Yugoslavia.

23 Part of these forces were prepared to go to the so-called Srem

24 front because, as you know, at that time key battles were being waged by

25 the Yugoslav forces and the forces of the Red Army against the German

Page 34245

1 army. However, one of the Ballista commanders, Saban Poluza, who

2 commanded about 5.000 men, refused to go to the Srem front. He returned

3 from Podujevo to Drenica and rallied together about 15.000 men, planning

4 to start fighting for the defence of Kosovo according to the previously

5 established plan.

6 This was a major incident and caused a great deal of concern among

7 the leadership of Yugoslavia. The Yugoslav forces were fighting against

8 the Germans at the time, and they had to engage 39.000 troops in order to

9 quell the uprising at the rear of the front while the fighting against the

10 Germans was going on. This went on from December 1943 until March 1944.

11 One of the commanders of these forces, of the Ballista Nazi

12 forces --

13 Q. You mean from December '44 until February '45?

14 A. Yes, you're right. I'm sorry, until March 1945. You're right.

15 So in this fighting, the Yugoslav forces had major losses. Of

16 course, this was not a struggle against the unarmed Albanian population.

17 There was an attack against Gnjilane, about 2.000 Albanian Ballistas.

18 Also Urosevac, again 2.000 Ballistas. Adem Voca [phoen] led about 3.000

19 men against Trepca and Kosovska Mitrovica, and so on, and the main force

20 was commanded by Saban Poluza.

21 At any rate, the total number of Yugoslav soldiers killed in

22 quelling this rebellion was about 850 soldiers on the Yugoslav side.

23 There were over 600 Ballistas who were killed in the fighting, and several

24 thousand Ballistas surrendered when the Yugoslav forces called for a

25 surrender.

Page 34246

1 This fighting basically went on until the 9th of May, 1945, but

2 anyway, this was a major sabotage by the forces that were fighting for a

3 Greater Albania during the Second World War and this was their last ditch

4 attempt to try to keep Kosovo within a Greater Albania.

5 Q. All right. Did you look at the work of the Yugoslav state

6 commission for the establishment of war crimes committed by the occupier

7 and their collaborators during the Second World War since this document

8 was drafted sometime in 1946? What was the number of war criminals

9 involved at the time?

10 A. Well --

11 Q. This is Exhibit number 18.

12 A. Like all other countries of the anti-Hitler coalition, commissions

13 were established for the establishment of war crimes and this kind of

14 commission was established in Yugoslavia as well.

15 I have Exhibit 18 here now. This is a list of Albanian war

16 criminals from the territory of Serbia, Montenegro, and Macedonia, and

17 Albania as well, who committed crimes in the territory of Yugoslavia.

18 This is Exhibit 18.

19 The list includes a total of 290 Albanians -- sorry, 297

20 Albanians, with their details, including the units they fought in, the

21 quisling and Nazi units they fought in during the Second World War.

22 Q. These are only persons who committed war crimes in accordance with

23 the findings of this war crimes commission; right?

24 A. These are individuals for which the commission found evidence and

25 they are war criminals according to the findings of that commission.

Page 34247

1 I must say that after the war a large number of participants in

2 the SS division and the Kosovo Regiment were not on the list of this

3 commission for war crimes. In the decades after the Second World War,

4 they were a political force of the Greater Albanian oriented activities in

5 Kosovo and Metohija and they actually participated in government all the

6 time after the Second World War.

7 Q. All right, Mr. Terzic. I read about this on pages 64 to 67. Your

8 attitude towards the policy of the Communist Party vis-a-vis Kosovo and

9 Metohija after the Second World War has been very critical. When

10 assessing all of this as an historian, why do you think the Communist

11 Party opted for this kind of autonomy in Kosovo and Metohija at the time?

12 A. As an historian, I believe that the Communist Party of Yugoslavia

13 bears a great historic responsibility for the fate of the Yugoslav state,

14 in addition to developments in Kosovo and Metohija itself. I will give a

15 few reasons why this is what I believe.

16 First of all, the Communist Party of Yugoslavia, between the two

17 world wars, under the influence of the communist international and Stalin,

18 espoused the thesis that national questions can be used as fertile ground

19 for carrying out a Soviet revolution in Yugoslavia.

20 At the 4th Congress of the Communist Party of Yugoslavia held in

21 Dresden in 1928, the Communist Party of Yugoslavia, in accordance with

22 this directive, highlighted its solidarity with the Albanian National

23 Liberation Movement, which was then the Kosovo Committee. It's the same

24 committee that was financed by fascist Italy at the time. And in the

25 period from 1928 until 1934, the Communist Party of Yugoslavia had an

Page 34248

1 alliance with the so-called national revolutionary groups, that is to say

2 with the Croat Ustashas, the Macedonian terrorists, and the Albanian

3 Kosovo Committee. Later on this alliance was abandoned.

4 Another matter: Drawing on historical heritage, the Communist

5 Party of Yugoslavia in 1937 organised a district committee of the

6 Communist Party of Yugoslavia for Kosovo and Metohija, so this became

7 absurd. The Communist Party of Yugoslavia creates a district committee

8 for Kosovo and Metohija and does not establish a Communist Party of

9 Serbia. That was founded only in 1945. I am pointing this out because

10 the party organisation of the Communist Party of Yugoslavia, between the

11 two world wars, was a basis for the state set-up of Tito's Yugoslavia.

12 Q. Thank you. Let's not dwell on this any longer.

13 A. Sorry, just one more thing if I may, Mr. President. Milovan

14 Djilas, one of the leaders of the party, one of Tito's co-workers and

15 later a dissident, in Le Monde in 1971 he explained this policy. This is

16 what Milovan Djilas says: "The division of the Serbs in five or six -- of

17 six republics had the following objective: To weaken the centralism and

18 hegemonism of Serbs who were considered to be the main obstacle to

19 communism."

20 Now, why do I think that the Communist Party of Yugoslavia is

21 responsible for the fate of Kosovo and Metohija? First and foremost, the

22 Communist Party of Yugoslavia, after 1945, did not call to responsibility

23 most of the Albanians who took part in Nazi units and committed crimes and

24 ethnic cleansing. So there was no de-Nazification of Albanian society of

25 Kosovo and Metohija.

Page 34249

1 Secondly, the Communist Party of Yugoslavia, with its policy

2 sanctioned the ethnic situation created by the occupation of Kosovo and

3 Metohija in the 1940s.

4 Secondly -- thirdly, the Communist Party of Yugoslavia prohibited

5 the expelled Serbs to return to Kosovo through a series of laws that I'm

6 going to refer to.

7 And fourthly, the Communist Party of Yugoslavia, through its

8 policy actually made possible a large-scale ethnic cleansing of Kosovo --

9 of Serbs from Kosovo from 1945 until 1990.

10 Q. In order to save time, I suggest that you don't have to mention

11 all of these laws. In tab 19, we have all these laws passed by the

12 government of Yugoslavia from 1945 until 1947. So the Serbs were

13 prohibited from returning to the province of Kosovo and Metohija. So I

14 believe that will suffice.

15 A. Just two words, please, for the benefit of the Trial Chamber.

16 Q. Please be as brief as possible.

17 A. There are three laws and one decree that were passed by the

18 government of Tito's Yugoslavia in 1945 and 1946 and 1947. They are here

19 in the Serbian language. They prohibit the return of expelled colonists

20 to the place where they lived previously, namely Kosovo and Metohija.

21 That is the essence.

22 Q. It is tab 19, not 11.

23 A. Yes, yes. These are the laws and decisions that were quoted.

24 Q. And this was published in the Official Gazette of the democratic

25 federal Yugoslavia, which was the official name of the country after the

Page 34250

1 Second World War. And you also have the Official Gazette of the people's

2 Republic of Serbia.

3 All right, Mr. Terzic. The Presidency of the Assembly of Serbia

4 on the 3rd of October, 1945, passed a law on the establishment of the

5 autonomous Kosovo and Metohija province. There were no similar autonomies

6 anywhere in the Yugoslav state except for this one in Serbia. How can

7 that be explained?

8 A. This is tab 20. On page 459, there is a law on the establishment

9 and set-up of the autonomous Kosovo and Metohija region dated the 3rd of

10 September, 1945. Article 2 --

11 Q. It says the 3rd of October in my text.

12 A. The 3rd of September.

13 Q. I'm sure that you know better. Okay.

14 A. The 3rd of September. Law on the establishment and set-up of the

15 autonomous Kosovo and Metohija district from the 3rd of September, 1945.

16 Article 2 of this law reads as follows: "The autonomous

17 Kosovo-Metohija province comprises an integral part of Serbia and it

18 elects a proportionate number of deputies to the national assembly of

19 Serbia."

20 Now, what is interesting in this respect. The national policy of

21 Tito's Yugoslavia. It's a paradox. At the point when the autonomous

22 Kosovo and Metohija was established, the Albanians comprised 8 per cent of

23 the total population. At the same time, in the Republic of Macedonia,

24 Albanians accounted for 17 per cent of the population and there was no

25 autonomy there. In the Republic of Croatia, Serbs accounted for 14.5

Page 34251

1 per cent to 15 per cent of the population. In Lika, Banija, Kordun there

2 were predominantly Serb populations, but there was no autonomy there. So

3 what kind of consistency is there?

4 Obviously this was a policy to weaken the Serb factor in the

5 future Yugoslavia of Tito's. Only Serbia had two provinces, and the

6 minorities of others, as I said in Macedonia and Croatia, did not receive

7 any kind of autonomy. These were political objectives and this was done

8 on purpose.

9 Q. What about the relationship with Albania, the neighbouring

10 Albania, from 1941 until 1948? As briefly as possible.

11 A. This is a very interesting question. Experience from the Second

12 World War, the expulsion of the Serbs and the settlement of 100.000

13 Albanians in Kosovo and Metohija, after 1945, especially in 1945 to 1948,

14 Yugoslavia and Serbia assisted the development of Albania by all means.

15 Peter Bartl in his book The Albanians says that the value of

16 economic aid given by Yugoslavia to Albania in 1945 to 1948 was

17 $33 million. Some information indicates that the Yugoslav government

18 financed the Albanian army in the period from 1945 until 1948. However,

19 at the same time, on the other hand, the leadership of the Yugoslav

20 Albanians from Kosovo and Metohija had secret ties with Enver Hoxha and

21 the leadership of Albania.

22 I have here an excerpt from Spasoje Djakovic's book. This is

23 page 253. The book is called Clashes in Kosovo. Spasoje Djakovic was

24 chief of state security in Kosovo and Metohija who visited Tirana in 1948.

25 He had a meeting with the organisation secretary of the Albanian

Page 34252

1 Communist Party, Koci Xoxe, who was at the same time was minister of the

2 interior, and he was an Albanian of the Orthodox Christian faith and when

3 Koci Xoxe and Spasoje Djakovic talked, Koci Xoxe at one moment got up and

4 showed a file to Djakovic which included some documents, secret letters

5 and telegrams, that the leading Albanian from Kosovo, Fadil Hoxha,

6 secretly sent to Enver Hoxha. When Djakovic returned to Yugoslavia and

7 when he informed the security organs of Yugoslavia about this, they did

8 nothing about it. However, soon after that, Koci Xoxe was arrested and

9 summarily executed.

10 Q. We have to save time. Please just say a few words about the

11 Prizren trial in 1956.

12 A. This is a topic that has had repercussions to this day. A lot has

13 been said about it. The Prizren trial, which was led in secrecy or,

14 rather, it was not a public trial, it took place between the 12th and 17th

15 of July of 1956 in Prizren, and it was a trial of illegal Greater Albania

16 group due to their hostile and illegal espionage in favour of Albanian

17 secret service. So this was in July 1956. A total of nine persons were

18 convicted. However, this trial is important for other issues as well

19 because it has revealed that in Kosovo and Metohija, there was a very

20 deep, well-organised greater Albanian organisation and that leadership of

21 the Albanians in Kosovo and Metohija had ties to the Albanian secret

22 service.

23 Specific names were mentioned in the course of is that trial.

24 Fifty names were mentioned of people cooperating with the Albanian secret

25 service of Enver Hoxha. Among them Fadil Hoxha as the prime leader of

Page 34253

1 Kosovo and Metohija, Jerjat Hamza [phoen], and Imer Pulja, Myslim Nimani

2 and others. This trial revealed that there was a deeply-rooted and

3 illegal sabotage organisation which was incorporated into the government

4 structures.

5 Q. I think that's sufficient. Let us not go into details concerning

6 that because we have very little time.

7 It is not widely known either in our country or in the world that

8 municipality of Leposavic was annexed to Kosovo and Metohija in '58

9 and '59. Before I ask you what can be found about that in historical

10 sources, let me say that it is mentioned that it was at the time done by

11 the political leadership because as was explained, the comrades in Kosovo

12 had no firewood, so therefore they were given this woodsy area in the

13 vicinity of Kopaonik so that they would have firewood. This took place in

14 '58, '59. What can be found on that in historical sources, but very

15 briefly, please.

16 A. Let me say something regarding 1956 and the weapons.

17 Q. This had to do with the Prizren trial, and you spoke of that just

18 recently.

19 A. Yes. After the Prizren trial, as this was a very large

20 organisation, police started looking for weapons and collecting weapons.

21 I have a document in tab 21, and here on page 2 of this document you can

22 see that this was a campaign to collect illegal weapons which took place

23 between '56 and '57, and you here have the figures on weapons collected in

24 Kosovo and Metohija. Mortars, 4; machine-guns, 56; Schmeisser rifles, 84;

25 rifles, 8.640; pistols, five thousand nine hundred -- 3.925; and hunting

Page 34254

1 rifles, 97. So this is an amount sufficient for an entire division. But

2 let us go back to the Leposavic issue.

3 Q. But very briefly, please.

4 A. I will endeavour to be as brief as possible; however, the issues

5 are very serious and I put in a lot of time preparing for this testimony,

6 so I will try to be as brief as possible.

7 In 1958, a part of Central Serbia was annexed to Kosovo and

8 Metohija. In 1959, a law was passed formalising this. Forty-two

9 kilometres is the length of the border. Forty-two or, rather, 42

10 kilometres of the territory of Serbia was annexed administratively to

11 Kosovo and Metohija.

12 When preparing for this testimony, a member of the academy,

13 Dobrica Cosic, who at the time was the people's deputy for that region,

14 gave me a statement saying that his voters opposed this move of annexing

15 Central Bosnia or a part of it to Kosovo and Metohija. Dobrica Cosic went

16 to see the secretary of the communist league, Jovan Veselinov, to discuss

17 this, and was criticised that he as a communist was opposed to this move

18 whereby a part of Central Serbia was annexed to Kosovo and Metohija

19 because that part of Kosovo and Metohija lacked firewood.

20 I have a map here which can clarify this further to the Trial

21 Chamber.

22 So this is a map of territorial and political borders of

23 Yugoslavia, and this area in red is the part of Leposavic municipality

24 which was not part of Kosovo and Metohija up until 1959 but was after

25 that.

Page 34255

1 I also have a military map here. The topographic section named as

2 Novibazar, and I marked here the border of Kosovo and Metohija before

3 Leposavic was annexed, the village of Dobrava. And after 1959, this

4 border was pushed inside Serbia for 42 kilometres and up to the village of

5 Bistrica which is where the administrative border between Serbia and

6 Kosovo can be found today.

7 Q. Mr. Terzic, in your paper which was submitted here as an expert

8 report, you state that the autonomy of the Southern Serbian First Region

9 and later on province was abused by the leadership of Albanian minority

10 and used in order to continue ethnic cleansing of Serbs from the province

11 rather than developing a multi-ethnic and multi-cultural society.

12 When was the first time that the discussion was commenced in

13 Serbia, or let us say in Yugoslav society about these issues? You've

14 mentioned 1962. Was that the first attempt to open up this discussion?

15 A. There are three types of sources which speak of this, and I used

16 all three of them in my work.

17 One type of sources were church sources of the Archbishop Pavle.

18 The second type of sources are intelligence sources, and the third type

19 are the sources belonging to the governmental organs which as a rule are

20 late. You know, they are opportunistic, and they tend to diminish the

21 problem.

22 The problem escalated in the late '50s and 1960 and 1961. The

23 problem of exodus of the Serbs and Montenegrins gained serious political

24 repercussions and the Executive Committee of the Central Committee of the

25 League of Communists of Yugoslavia, and at the time the party was the main

Page 34256

1 power, therefore this committee in its session on the 9th of July, 1962 --

2 you can see this document in tab 23, which is the minutes taken during

3 that session. So the party discussed the problem of the Serbs and

4 Montenegrins moving out of Kosovo. You can see it in the agenda under

5 item 1 where it says some ideological and political problems in Kosmet.

6 The documents from that time are fairly brief, limited, and you

7 have to read between the lines to know what was going on. But this

8 session which took place in 1962 pointed out to several points.

9 First of all, that there were -- that there was a tendency to

10 isolate Kosovo and Metohija from other republics, as it stated in this

11 document; that there was a problem with textbooks in Kosovo and Metohija,

12 rather, that a lot of textbooks had been imported from Albania and used in

13 Kosovo, and that there was a problem with scholarships for individuals who

14 had been convicted of an enemy activity. As is stated in this document,

15 there are some teachers and professors who are -- who have irredentist and

16 similar tendencies and that there have been demands to annex Kosovo and

17 Metohija to Albania.

18 And finally, it is pointed out that there is a problem that had to

19 do with the moving out of Serbs and Montenegrins from Kosovo and that the

20 situation was such that it could become dangerous and have grave political

21 consequences. This is what is stated in this document of the Central

22 Committee.

23 Q. All right. So it is stated here that during those years a very

24 strong Albanian movement was present and was deeply rooted, and we also

25 have a document here documenting enemy activity back in 1961. Is that

Page 34257

1 mentioned here?

2 A. Well, I regret very deeply that this paper was not translated into

3 English. It would have been very valuable for Mr. Nice.

4 This study has 87 pages and is entitled The Report on Enemy

5 Activities and Negative Phenomena in Kosovo, dated -- or rather,

6 throughout 1960 and 1961. This was a report produced by the Yugoslav

7 security services or, rather, by Vojin Lukic, the secretary of the

8 interior, personally.

9 In the introduction it is stated that all facts were seriously or,

10 rather, very thoroughly verified. I would like to point out to several

11 main elements of this report, and I can point out the pages as well.

12 First of all, it is stated here that in 1961, 1962, there was a

13 significant increase in the number of Albanian activities.

14 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Terzic, what exhibit is this?

15 MR. NICE: Tab 25.

16 THE ACCUSED [Interpretation] Yes. This is tab 25, a report on

17 enemy activities and negative phenomena in Kosmet, 1960 to 1961.

18 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes. Proceed.

19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] What do we see here? We can see

20 here that there is an infiltration from Albania of armed and sabotage

21 groups and individuals and that the centres from which these sabotage

22 groups are being sent can be found in Kukes and Tirane. In 1960, the

23 first five armed groups were discovered. The main goal of these

24 organisations is to annex Kosovo and Metohija to Albania.

25 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Nice, yes.

Page 34258

1 MR. NICE: I only observe, in light of the previous indications of

2 the Chamber as to how these matters should be dealt with, that the witness

3 has been relying, with this exhibit and in respect of earlier exhibits,

4 particularly those in languages he doesn't read, on handwritten notes from

5 which he reads to summarise and give his evidence. I don't know if the

6 Chamber is happy with that as a technique, but that's certainly what's

7 happening.

8 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Terzic, the general rule is that you must

9 give your evidence unaided. If you're relying on notes, then the Chamber

10 has to be informed of that. Have you been using notes?

11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, I am using notes. I have been

12 preparing --

13 JUDGE ROBINSON: [Previous translation continues] ...

14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In the past few days here in The

15 Hague, while waiting to come and testify. I took my testimony here very

16 seriously, and I made an aide memoire for myself because I'm dealing with

17 a lot of facts and I can't keep it all in my mind. So this is the only

18 purpose that I made these notes for, and I'm using my notes only if I'm

19 quoting figures and quoting texts, formulations.

20 JUDGE ROBINSON: In the future, Mr. Milosevic, when you have

21 witnesses who rely on notes, you should bring that to the attention of the

22 Chamber.

23 Mr. Milosevic, a large number of documents that you have submitted

24 here are not translated, and the Chamber will have to consider later the

25 general approach that's to be taken to them.

Page 34259

1 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Mr. Robinson, please bear in mind

2 that these are very important documents and, therefore, I propose that

3 with respect to those which have not been translated, you admit them under

4 an identification number and then later on, after they have been

5 translated, you can admit them as exhibits, because these are valid

6 documents.

7 As for the notes made by this witness, they only pertain to the

8 information that he wants to remind himself of, meaning figures and so on,

9 because he cannot quote documents in their entirety here. He simply

10 marked down the parts --

11 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes. I've stopped you. I'm allowing him to use

12 the notes that he has made. And we have in the past admitted and marked

13 for identification untranslated documents, and we'll consider that as an

14 approach later.

15 How much longer are you going to be with this witness?

16 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Well, this is going slower than I

17 expected it, but this is due to the fact that we have a lot of exhibits to

18 tender in. And since this is an expert witness, he refers to numerous

19 documents, and this all takes up time. However, I have reached the --

20 perhaps half of my examination, planned examination.

21 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Milosevic, it's also due to the fact that you

22 are not controlling the witness. The witness speaks too much. You should

23 control the witness and don't let him give evidence that is not necessary.

24 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Very well. I will ask the witness,

25 as I only have contact with him here in the courtroom, to be as brief and

Page 34260

1 concise as possible so that we can be as time efficient as possible.

2 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

3 Q. Please have that in mind, Mr. Terzic.

4 A. May I say something?

5 Q. Yes. Please go ahead.

6 A. These are absolutely authentic documents which can be found in our

7 archives. I regret that these documents have not been translated into

8 English; however, this does not diminish their value, probative value.

9 JUDGE ROBINSON: That is for the Trial Chamber to consider,

10 Mr. Terzic, the value.

11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes. Yes, very well, but I'm

12 speaking as an historian here.


14 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

15 Q. Very well. Let us skip the in-depth nature of this information as

16 to what links with the intelligence services can be found in late '60s and

17 so on. This has been translated.

18 However, my question is this: In parallel with these alarming

19 warnings given by security organs in late '60s, there were also equally

20 alarming warnings of the Serbian Orthodox Church. Here in tab 26, 32, we

21 have a book by Atanasije Jevtic, the then Bishop Atanasije Jevtic. So

22 this is one of the documents of the Serbian Orthodox Church. What do

23 these sources speak of?

24 A. Mr. Milosevic, I will try to be as brief as possible, but let me

25 say this: Document 25 that I have shown here is very important. It is

Page 34261

1 very important precisely because it revealed a very deeply rooted Albanian

2 terrorist organisation.

3 JUDGE ROBINSON: That is precisely the kind of comment from the

4 witness.

5 Follow Mr. Milosevic, Mr. Terzic. He's marshalling his evidence.

6 He's marshalling his case.

7 Go ahead, Mr. Milosevic.

8 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

9 Q. Before I continue, do you consider that this document in its

10 entirety demonstrated the depth and breadth of the hostile enemy

11 activities in Kosovo and Metohija which the organs of the then-Yugoslavia

12 were able to establish during that period of time?

13 A. Absolutely correct.

14 Q. Thank you. Let's move on.

15 A. I said absolutely. What was then -- what the Yugoslav leadership

16 didn't take seriously then showed to be a tragic -- had its tragic

17 denouement over the following decades. This is a first-rate warning

18 showing that it was an organised attempt to undermine the Yugoslav state,

19 and that is the importance of this document.

20 Q. Thank you. Now we have church sources. We have the testimony of

21 the Rasko Prizenski, bishop, who is the patriarch today, Patriarch Paul,

22 and we have tabs 26 to 32 in the exhibits, the book by Atanasije Jevtic,

23 The Suffering of the Serbs in Kosovo and Metohija, Monk Atanasije

24 Jevtic --

25 MR. NICE: I observe that I wasn't the only one in court who found

Page 34262

1 the question that led to the answer about tab 26 interesting, but when one

2 then looks at the title of the document which hasn't, I think, been

3 presented, although it's in Serbian, this is a document that covers the

4 period 1941 to 1990, I think, unless I've got it wrong. It's a document

5 in whatever it is, 500 pages, and the proposition is that this in some way

6 gives an exhaustive, satisfactory and accurate account for the events

7 within that period.

8 Now, the witness, who is, I think, a teacher, will recognise that

9 to teach a subject like this, with or without the assistance of a document

10 like this would take him many hours of lectures. It is simply impossible

11 for us to deal with the document and the question.

12 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Nice, I understood the question that's

13 concerning you related to document 25.

14 MR. NICE: In which case it's my error.

15 JUDGE BONOMY: It does. It's the Communist Party's conclusions

16 that that general question related to.

17 MR. NICE: Well, then if I've got it wrong, that's that.

18 JUDGE BONOMY: I think. At least, that's how I understood it.

19 JUDGE KWON: Mr. Milosevic, was it not tab 26 of the book by a

20 Bishop named by Atanasije Jevtic? Was it tab 25 or tab 26 which you

21 confirmed with this witness just now?

22 MR. NICE: I think it must be tab 26 - sorry to interrupt -

23 because we'd already been looking at tab 25 before.

24 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] We've already passed over tab 25,

25 and you have that report in its entirety. It's an official state report.

Page 34263

1 Now this is the next one and it testifies to church sources. The previous

2 one related to state sources. I now asked about church sources, and

3 church sources are contained in tab 26 and 32, upon which this testimony

4 relies.

5 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Nice, summarise the point that you made about

6 tab 26.

7 MR. NICE: The point is that the question was, of course,

8 tendentious or leading in its form. The answer was pan-technicon: This

9 was a totally complete and accurate account of everything it contained,

10 and then we see the title of the document and it's supposed to be covering

11 something between 1941 and 1990. There is simply no way that I can deal

12 with this document at all, unless of course I'm in a position to accept it

13 as being wholly accurate. I can't cross-examine on it -- I can't read it,

14 I couldn't cross-examine on it, and to deal with it critically, which is

15 what the document might require, I can't know, would take an enormous

16 amount of time and there must come a point when documents of this kind

17 may be recognised at the moment of their attempted introduction as being

18 really valueless in the exercise of producing evidence, because what's

19 going to happen is that we are going to -- I hope I'm not speaking too

20 fast. I apologise. What we're going to find is that we're going to be

21 burdening ourselves, if these documents are ever produced, with

22 translations that will take days to read, that will not have been examined

23 and cross-examined on properly, and that will have, in reality, a nil

24 evidential value.

25 JUDGE ROBINSON: The Chamber will consider the point.

Page 34264

1 [Trial Chamber confers]

2 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Nice, I remain convinced that the answer

3 relates to tab 25 and that what was happening here was that Mr. Milosevic

4 took up the witness's suggestion that there needed to be something said

5 supplementary to what he'd already said about tab 25, and Mr. Milosevic

6 gave him back the answer he had more or less just given as a question and

7 got an answer confirming that. It was a leading question, but it was in

8 relation to something he had just said.

9 Now, I don't read the transcript as so far indicating that a

10 general question has been asked about tab 26 and, therefore, your point is

11 well taken at the outset before any answer is given.

12 JUDGE ROBINSON: The Chamber is considering tab 26, which is 500

13 pages.

14 [Trial Chamber confers]

15 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Milosevic, what do you have to say in answer

16 to the objection by Mr. Nice about tab 26? That's the 500-page

17 untranslated document.

18 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.

19 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Once the translation of it is made,

20 it will be a very valuable document because they are church sources from

21 1941 of the last century to 1990, and the weight of what is contained in

22 the document you yourselves will be able to assess and weigh up, because

23 there are many elements from the archives of the Serbian Orthodox Church.

24 [Trial Chamber confers]

25 JUDGE ROBINSON: Go ahead, Mr. Milosevic. Are you finished?

Page 34265

1 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Well, as I said, they are documents

2 from the archives of the Serbian Orthodox Church. Like tab 32, that is

3 also taken from the archives of the Serbian Orthodox Church.

4 JUDGE ROBINSON: But how is Mr. Nice to cross-examine on this?

5 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Well, we can ask the witness to

6 indicate just several passages for purposes of cross-examination,

7 essential passages from these exhibits to highlight them. He could read

8 them out, then it will be translated so that Mr. Nice can rely on that.

9 JUDGE ROBINSON: I see you're learning the technique now, the

10 standard technique. So you're going to ask the witness to pinpoint

11 specific passages. Short passages? What's the first one?

12 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

13 Q. Go ahead. Tab 26 and 32. Point out the most important passages,

14 please. Pinpoint them for us.

15 JUDGE ROBINSON: That's where we get into trouble. You should be

16 directing the witness to a particular passage.

17 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Mr. Robinson, I asked a question. I

18 asked what church sources testify to.

19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] May I ask a question, Your Honours?

20 JUDGE ROBINSON: Exceptionally, yes. What do you want to say?

21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I am testifying here, not

22 Mr. Milosevic. So I can indicate the pages of the source. And what I

23 want to say is this: Exhibit 26, the book, is a collection of first-rate

24 documents taken from the archives of the Holy Sinod of the Serbian

25 Orthodox Church. It is a book of documents, a collection of documents,

Page 34266

1 and therefore highly valuable. And I am very sorry, I really do regret

2 that it is not translated into English, but I am ready to pinpoint the

3 pages in the book that I quote.

4 JUDGE ROBINSON: It is true that you are testifying, but you do so

5 in response to questions from Mr. Milosevic. And the danger is that if

6 you volunteer evidence, you may volunteer evidence that he doesn't want,

7 or it may be too extensive. Nonetheless --

8 JUDGE KWON: Before pointing out, Mr. Terzic, did you deal with

9 this book in your report, your expert report? If you did, could you

10 indicate the footnote number in the report.

11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, of course, in several places.

12 I shall avail myself of the English text.

13 JUDGE KWON: I think footnote number will be the same.

14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] There are some slight differences,

15 so I'll be looking at the English text. I do apologise. This will just

16 take a moment.

17 184 note, 184 of the English text. 184.

18 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

19 Q. What page?

20 A. It is on page 63.

21 JUDGE KWON: In English report.

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Note 184 in the English version,

23 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, and other places as well.

24 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Terzic, I'll allow you to pinpoint two or

25 three short passages, short passages, so that they may be translated.

Page 34267

1 What's the first one?

2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Beginning on page 30 of the Serbian

3 text. But unfortunately I don't have the Serbian text in front of me at

4 the moment. It's a big book. I gave it over for photocopying and haven't

5 received it back.

6 On page 30 of the Serbian text, and I'll highlight it --

7 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

8 Q. Could you place it on the ELMO, please.

9 A. Yes. I'm going to highlight it and place it on the ELMO.

10 Q. Please place it on the overhead projector not to waste time. Now,

11 what do you wish to quote from there?

12 A. In Prizren, so it is the report of Pristevo Dimitrijevic. 1951 is

13 the date about the circumstances prevailing in Kosmet. "In Prizren, in

14 the Orthodox cemetery there, tombstones are still being destroyed, and in

15 the old cemetery they've all been annihilated. Even in mixed religious

16 villages, they don't let crosses stand in the graveyards to mark the

17 graves." That passage.

18 Page 38, the Serbian text. Page 38 of the Serbian text. I've

19 just highlighted that. The report by Bishop Pavle of the 12th of May,

20 1959, and I quote, it is the Rasko Prizenski: "There is another

21 unfortunate situation whose consequences can be catastrophic for us living

22 in these parts. It is the constant exodus of our population."

23 Then we come to page 39. Page 39. From the report of the Rasko

24 Prizenski, Bishop Paul, who is today the patriarch, and it is the 27th of

25 April, 1961 report, the Bishop writes as follows and I quote: "We are

Page 34268

1 experiencing the constant unfortune of the exodus of our population more

2 or less from the entire territory of the eparchy."

3 And on that same page a report dated the 11th of May, 1962, and I

4 quote: "This year, too," once again, that is to say 1961, "the exodus of

5 our population is continuing with ever greater intensity, both settlers

6 and the people who have been living there for ages from all parts of the

7 eparchy."

8 And page 39 again, he quotes -- Bishop Pavle quotes the examples

9 that -- from Gnjilane over 200 households moved out. Just from the

10 Vrbovac parish, which is a small parish. 70 households have moved out.

11 From the surrounding parts of Pristina since last year, once again there

12 has been precipitous moving out. In the village of Komoranov to the war

13 there are 40 Serb households. Now there are only 12. Novo Cikatovo, 48

14 used to live there, households, now there are just 22. Donje Zabil

15 [phoen] once numbering 18, now four. Valiki Belasovic, once numbering 23,

16 now only 3. So that was that, from that page.

17 JUDGE ROBINSON: That is the limit of the numbers that I had

18 allowed. It is also the limit of our time for today. I indicated we

19 would adjourned at 12.40. We resume tomorrow morning at 9.00.

20 JUDGE KWON: Mr. Milosevic, the parts the witness just cited do

21 appear in his report. So tomorrow, during the remaining -- remainder of

22 your examination-in-chief, you should draw our attention to the relevant

23 part, relevant page in his report. So try to do that when you prepare for

24 tomorrow's examination.

25 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 12.40 p.m.,

Page 34269

1 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 7th day of

2 December, 2004, at 9.00 a.m.