International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 4355

1 Tuesday, 11 June 2002

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 [The witness entered court]

5 --- Upon commencing at 9.01 a.m.

6 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Please be seated. Good morning, everybody.

7 Could you please call the case.

8 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning. This is Case Number IT-97-24-T, the

9 Prosecutor versus Milomir Stakic.

10 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. And the appearances, please.

11 MR. KOUMJIAN: Good morning, Your Honours. Nicholas Koumjian with

12 Ann Sutherland, assisted by Ruth Karper for the Office of the Prosecutor.

13 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you.

14 MR. LUKIC: Good morning, Your Honours. Branko Lukic assisted

15 with Mr. Danilo Cirkovic for the Defence.

16 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. Especially good morning to you,

17 Witness. Please, when you hear the questions now put forward by the

18 Defence, please answer the same kind, gentle, and precise way as you did

19 it yesterday to the Office of the Prosecutor. It's necessary to have a

20 fair trial, and I'm quite sure you will do it. Thank you for that in

21 advance.

22 And the Defence may start, please.

23 WITNESS: WITNESS R [Resumed]

24 [Witness answered through interpreter]

25 Cross-examined by Mr. Lukic:

Page 4356

1 Q. [Interpretation] Good morning, Witness R. That is how I have to

2 address you, and you understand that it is for your security. My name is

3 Branko Lukic, and together with Mr. John Ostojic, who is not with us

4 today, I represent the Defence of Dr. Stakic before this Tribunal. On

5 behalf of Dr. Stakic's Defence, I will ask you to assist us in clearing up

6 certain points which follow from the events that happened in 1992.

7 Have you had a good rest? Did you sleep well?

8 A. Well, to tell you the truth, I slept very badly, but there it is.

9 It's an emotional time for me.

10 Q. I think everything will be all right. I understand. And I hope

11 you will be able to summon the strength to answer our questions today.

12 A. I hope so, too.

13 Q. I will follow the line of questioning of my learned friend, and I

14 will ask only for clarification of some points following more or less the

15 same order that was used yesterday during the examination-in-chief.

16 For the sake of the record, I will mention the names of the pages

17 and lines in the record, but you need not worry about this, because I will

18 also quote your words. On page 4253, lines 9 to 11, you said that: "A

19 lot of weapons arrived from Slovenia and Croatia and remained in the

20 municipality of Prijedor." Did all the weapons remain there, do you

21 remember, or did only part of the weapons remain in Prijedor? Do you

22 remember?

23 A. Only a part of the weapons remained. These were enormous piles of

24 weapons passing by my house every day. You could see that when the war

25 started in Slovenia, and then later on in Croatia. But not all of those

Page 4357

1 weapons stayed behind; part of them did, however.

2 Q. Thank you.

3 Near the bottom of the same page, lines 18 to 24, you said that

4 "after the first multiparty elections in Bosnia and Herzegovina, the

5 situation became more and more complex every day."

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And that relations between Muslims and Serbs deteriorated.

8 A. Correct.

9 Q. What period of time are we talking about here, 1991 already?

10 A. That was in 1990 when the first multiparty elections were held.

11 There were frequent republican assemblies in Sarajevo. The then leaders

12 of the HDZ, SDS, and SDA made statements, and the situation, of course,

13 had repercussions among ordinary people so that my relations with my

14 friends who were Serbs changed. They really changed, and this was

15 evident.

16 Q. Did the relations of the Bosniaks -- rather, the attitude of the

17 Bosniaks toward the JNA begin to change at that time?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Were the Bosniaks already opposed to the JNA deploying in their

20 villages?

21 A. Well, I wouldn't say that's how it was. The Muslims objected to

22 being sent to the war theatre in Croatia. They objected to mobilisation.

23 But I wouldn't know about deployment of the JNA.

24 Q. Before you changed your military assignment to that of a reserve

25 policeman, did you go to military exercises?

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Page 4359

1 A. Yes. After I finished my regular military service in Zajecar and

2 Knjazevac in Serbia, I was frequently called for military exercises in the

3 famous 5th Kozara unit so that when the overall situation changed and

4 became more complex in 1990, I tried to avoid being mobilised. And so at

5 that time, I asked Milos Preradovic, who was employed in the SUP in

6 Prijedor, to help me to change my military assignment, and that's what

7 happened. In 1990, in November, my military assignment was rendered null

8 and void in the Prijedor military department, and I became a reserve

9 military policeman.

10 Q. Do you remember where the meeting point of the 5th Kozara unit

11 was?

12 A. It was the village of Podvidaca on the Prijedor/Sanski Most route.

13 The village is called Djevar, and the exercises were held most often in

14 Podvidaca, across mountain routes which I passed along with the 5th Kozara

15 unit.

16 Q. The place where the military exercises were held and where the 5th

17 Kozara unit gathered, were they Bosniak or Serb villages?

18 A. Believe me, at that time, I didn't think about it. All I knew was

19 that the village was called Djevar. It's near a catering establishment

20 owned by Dzemal Malcevic, so it was a mixed village, I think. But I

21 wouldn't know for sure because I wasn't really interested at the time.

22 Q. On page 4.257, from the beginning of the page up to line 13, you

23 spoke about an event when Eno Basic arrived with his wife Fazila and asked

24 your commander, Osman Didovic, what sort of Chetniks there were in

25 Benkovac. You said that then Mr. Didovic rang up Radmilo Zeljaja and asked

Page 4360

1 him what this was about and what sort of soldiers they were, and then Mr.

2 Zeljaja said that he couldn't discuss it over the phone and that you

3 should go and see him. (redacted)

4 (redacted)

5 MS. SUTHERLAND: Excuse me, Your Honour, may we go into private

6 session.

7 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Private session, please.

8 [Private session]

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21 [Open session]

22 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Confirmed. Please continue.

23 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

24 Q. I will try to be more careful in future. For your information, we

25 are now in open session. If it's necessary to mention some names that are

Page 4362

1 connected to you personally, you may ask for us to go into private

2 session.

3 Do you know who was the president of the Municipal Assembly at

4 that time?

5 A. What time are you speaking of?

6 Q. The time when these conversations with Zeljaja took place, that

7 is, before the 30th.

8 A. Muhamed Cehajic was the president of the Municipal Assembly at

9 that time.

10 Q. Did you approach him asking him to solve some problems with the

11 army?

12 A. I don't know. It's possible that commander Osman Didovic perhaps

13 consulted him also, but how can I explain this? My job at that time was

14 as a reserve military policeman who accompanied the commander who was my

15 superior and told me to go with him on that particular occasion. As for

16 conversations he may have had with Cehajic, I wouldn't know about those.

17 Q. Thank you. What was your function at the time? Were you Mr.

18 Didovic's driver, bodyguard?

19 A. No. I was a reserve military policeman like all the others who

20 were there at the police station at the time in Kozarac who took turns to

21 be on duty. And of course, we carried out the orders of our superior. He

22 didn't have any one who was specially designated to be his bodyguard. We

23 simply followed his orders.

24 Q. Do you know that the first JNA soldier who was killed in Slovenia

25 was, in fact, a Bosniak from Prijedor?

Page 4363

1 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: The witness can't answer this question.

2 MR. LUKIC: [In English] Withdraw it, Your Honour.

3 Q. [Interpretation] Do you know that all the JNA officers had to be

4 members first of the League of Communists of Yugoslavia and then the

5 League of Communists, the Movement for Yugoslavia?

6 A. I don't know that.

7 Q. Very well. Thank you.

8 These soldiers who were posted in Benkovac, did they ambush anyone

9 passing by the military barracks?

10 A. Nobody passed by because nobody could go there. There was a ramp

11 at the entrance to Benkovac. They would go out on to the

12 Mrakovica/Kozarac asphalt road. And Eno Basic then said that it was at

13 that spot that he was stopped, and I have already described what they

14 looked like.

15 Q. Did they arrest him at the time?

16 A. No, he wouldn't have come to Kozarac if they had. They simply

17 maltreated him, searched him, allegedly looking for weapons. And then

18 they released him. That's how he came to be in Kozarac after that.

19 Q. On page 4261, in response to the Prosecutor's question in line 19

20 as to whether the police in Kozarac ever disarmed some military units, you

21 said: "Only those returning from the front line, Serbian soldiers. They

22 would be stopped by the patrols, and they were carrying weapons." The

23 answer is then: "Yes, there were many cases when weapons were taken from

24 them."

25 A. Yes.

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Page 4365

1 Q. These are probably the incidents when you had to contact Zeljaja?

2 A. Yes. The soldiers who were returning, many of them fired shots

3 when passing through Kozarac, probably to frighten people, so that the

4 patrols stopped them. For example, Goran Borovnica on one occasion, and

5 he had been a reservist in Croatia, he had his weapons taken away. I

6 don't know the names of the others, but I happen to know this man.

7 Q. Thank you.

8 Do you know where these soldiers were stopped?

9 A. They were stopped at the checkpoints. I have already said, the

10 checkpoints in Kalata, and other exit and entry points around Kozarac.

11 Q. Was anyone stopped on the Prijedor/Banja Luka main road?

12 A. On the Prijedor/Banja Luka main road, people were also stopped at

13 those checkpoints at that time. These were manned by soldiers. It was a

14 joint police and military checkpoint. In Kozarac, it was reserve

15 policemen and active policemen who manned the checkpoints.

16 Q. Do you remember at what time all this was going on, stopping

17 people, taking weapons?

18 A. Well, from the beginning of the war in Croatia and the frequent

19 callups, people were sent to the war front. They would come back. I

20 can't tell you the exact date, but that's when it was.

21 Q. Very well. Thank you. I know you cannot give us a precise date,

22 but what you have said is sufficient.

23 Do you know how many men there were in the police in Kozarac,

24 including both active and military police?

25 A. In view of the fact that in this period, under the wartime

Page 4366

1 arrangement, there were policemen who came from different local communes

2 so that the police was mixed. They came from Balta, then there were Serbs

3 from Kozarusa, there were Muslims. There were both Serbs and Muslims from

4 different villages at the time I was there. There were about a hundred of

5 us. That's how many would come when there was a meeting.

6 Q. After the takeover of power, can you tell us, after the 30th of

7 April, 1992, can you tell us how many policemen there were in Kozarac?

8 A. In Kozarac itself?

9 Q. Yes.

10 A. Well, at the place where we were, and let me tell you not all the

11 policemen came to Kozarac. When it happened on the 24th, were people were

12 at home. Not all the hundred policemen were there in the police station

13 or in the house. There were some 30 of us.

14 Q. How many were members of the Kozarac police station registered?

15 A. Active?

16 Q. Both active and reserve.

17 A. I don't have this information.

18 Q. Thank you.

19 As a reserve policeman, what equipment were you issued with?

20 A. An automatic rifle.

21 Q. How much ammunition did you have?

22 A. 250 bullets.

23 Q. Were you issued with a uniform?

24 A. Yes. It was different from the uniform worn by active-duty

25 policemen.

Page 4367

1 Q. Did you get a pistol?

2 A. No.

3 Q. Did you undergo training for policemen before you started doing

4 this, or did you take a course later on, or did you never go to any

5 training course?

6 A. No, I never did because this was my wartime assignment, just as it

7 was my duty to respond when I was called by the 5th Kozara unit. In

8 complex situations, reserve policemen were called upon so that in normal

9 times, I never carried out the duties of a policeman, so I never completed

10 any sort of training course.

11 Q. Thank you. I understand, but we have to explain to the Chamber

12 what the position of reserve policemen was at the time.

13 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, could you just ask the witness to

14 pause -- between the question and the answer.

15 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Sorry. I wasn't aware of this. Please avoid

16 overlapping. Please take into account that the answer has first to be

17 translated and also the question, and wait until the translation has

18 finished, and then only start with your own answer. Thank you.

19 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

20 Q. I apologise. I should have drawn your attention to this. Since

21 we speak the same language, it's best to follow on the monitor. And when

22 the question stops, then you can start with your answer. Thank you.

23 Do you know how many members of the Kozarac Territorial Defence

24 were there at that time?

25 A. No.

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Page 4369

1 Q. Thank you.

2 Although you were not a trained policeman, I will ask you but I

3 think you may not know, can the police, according to law, control the

4 military and stop military convoys?

5 A. I don't know.

6 Q. Thank you.

7 Do you know who ordered soldiers to be stopped and disarmed? I'm

8 referring to those soldiers from whom you said weapons had been seized.

9 A. Those military who were just moving about and behaving in a normal

10 way were not stopped. This only happened to those returning from the

11 front line. The police did not stop regular military forces, but the ones

12 who were stopped were people who were shooting on their way through

13 Kozarac, or just before entering Kozarac. Those people were jeopardising

14 law and order. Those who were stopped were not proper military convoys

15 because the police in Kozarac was not even in a position to stop such

16 military convoys.

17 Q. You did your military service. Are you aware of the fact that

18 soldiers can only be taken in and arrested by the military police?

19 A. Yes, I am aware of that. But this is applicable in a country

20 where laws are obeyed and observed. Such was the case in the former

21 Yugoslavia. But if you have a situation as it was in 1991 when the

22 country started to fall apart and everything ceased to function normally,

23 the army was no longer the army in which I had done my military service.

24 And the army could not be stopped by the civilian police.

25 Q. Did you know Mr. Cirkin and Mr. Selimbegovic?

Page 4370

1 A. Yes, I did.

2 Q. Can you please explain in what capacity you saw these people in

3 Kozarac before the outbreak of the conflict?

4 A. They were members of the Territorial Defence in Kozarac.

5 Q. Were they members of the TO staff in Kozarac?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Were the checkpoints and guard duty set up along the whole main

8 road Kozarac/Jakupovici and along all access roads to Kozarac?

9 A. No.

10 Q. So there were no checkpoints along the main road between Kozarusa

11 and Jakupovici?

12 A. No, not along the main road.

13 Q. Why did the military then demand that checkpoints be moved at

14 least a hundred metres off the main road so that the military convoy could

15 pass through on the 24th of April, 1992?

16 A. I don't know.

17 Q. Thank you. I understand that you did not know this. However, do

18 you know that on the same date, a military convoy was attacked, that is,

19 on the 24th of May, 1992, and that on that occasion, soldiers Sreto

20 Culibrk, son of Mirko, was killed on the lorry at the head of the convoy?

21 A. No, I did not know, but I do know that on the 24th, Kozarac was

22 attacked.

23 Q. The police in Kozarac, did they disarm people who owned weapons

24 illegally?

25 A. Yes, this was often the case. I can specify. Brane Bolta and

Page 4371

1 myself once seized an automatic rifle from Ekrem Alic. I think that was

2 the man's name. There were such cases, perhaps not too frequently, but at

3 least as far as the police knew at that time.

4 Q. Did you know at that time that there was a group called Kola's

5 group in Kozarac? They also referred to themselves as the "Green Berets."

6 Did they carry weapons?

7 A. People did organise themselves in Kozarac, as in most other

8 places. Surely, that must have been the case, but the police in Kozarac

9 did not support such groups. But on the other hand, it couldn't fight

10 people organising themselves. It couldn't prevent people from organising

11 themselves into such groups.

12 Q. You couldn't fight it because you weren't strong enough to fight

13 it because such were the circumstances, or because there was no will to

14 fight these things. Do you have an opinion on that? You don't have to

15 comment.

16 A. No, I don't really have an opinion on that.

17 Q. You spoke about the night of the 29th of April, 1992 on page 4262

18 of the transcript, line 15. And following line 15, you named all the

19 people who were in the restaurant.

20 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, could we go into private session,

21 please.

22 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Private session, please.

23 [Private session]

24 (redacted)

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8 [Open session]

9 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Confirmed. Please proceed.

10 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

11 Q. Were Mr. Fazlic and Mr. Besic arrested on that occasion in

12 Prijedor, or were they just disarmed and sent home?

13 A. They were just disarmed and sent home.

14 Q. The remaining policemen, the Bosniaks, did they also, on that

15 occasion, come from Prijedor to Kozarac?

16 A. Yes. Many of them came later on.

17 Q. Do you know whose decision it was to transfer them to Kozarac? Or

18 was this initiative taken by the very people who came?

19 A. I don't know.

20 Q. Thank you.

21 I would like now to try asking you something about the period

22 following the takeover. You said that you heard Dr. Kovacevic speak on

23 the radio, and Dr. Stakic, too.

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Were these announcements on the radio read out by Dr. Stakic or by

Page 4376

1 the Radio Prijedor announcer, a woman at that time?

2 A. The announcements were read by a woman. However, all day along,

3 you could hear some new music, at least music that I had never heard

4 before, between the announcements by Simo Drljaca and Milan Kovacevic and

5 Stakic, and all those who spoke boastfully on the radio about the takeover

6 on the 30th.

7 Q. Did these persons call for peace, or were these persons

8 warmongering, and did you have an opportunity to read any of this in the

9 papers, apart from having heard it on the local radio station?

10 A. These people called for moderation, for security. And at the same

11 time, they were setting up a camp in Omarska, the Keraterm camp, the

12 Trnopolje camp.

13 Q. You contend that Simo Drljaca asked on the radio that weapons be

14 turned in. Were the weapons turned in?

15 A. Yes, in part. Some people did and some didn't. I can't tell

16 really.

17 Q. The police and the TO in Kozarac, did they turn in their weapons?

18 A. The police was a bit of a special case because they were not even

19 asked to turn in their weapons, not at that time.

20 Q. Were the Kozarac police allowed to wear their old insignia until a

21 new political solution was found?

22 A. The Kozarac police and the Kozarac people were only allowed to

23 live in a ghetto at that time, and the only thing they could do was wait

24 for the day Kozarac would be attacked. There was no solution in sight. I

25 told you what happened on the 24th. And that sort of thing could not be

Page 4377

1 planned in a single day.

2 Q. You say that Kozarac was encircled. Is that correct?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Was the Autonomous Region of Krajina, that was then proclaimed,

5 also encircled, and did you know about fighting for the corridor going on

6 at that time?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Thank you.

9 You contend that Dr. Kovacevic once came to see you and told you

10 that after the takeover, Dr. Stakic became the president of the Municipal

11 Assembly. Can you please tell us when exactly this occurred, or

12 approximately if you could tell us.

13 A. This was the only time after the takeover that I saw Dr.

14 Kovacevic. I never saw him after that. He came over briefly to see me.

15 I asked him; I really was surprised. I asked him what was happening. It

16 was an unofficial conversation, and he only told me: "It's going to be

17 all right. Dr. Stakic is here. So am I. Still, we'll help if

18 necessary." Or at least that was my interpretation of what he told me.

19 Q. Can you please tell us where it was that you met?

20 A. It was in the village of Kozarusa.

21 Q. You don't need to go any further into detail, because in that

22 case, we would have to go into private session.

23 So Dr. Kovacevic told you that Dr. Stakic had become the president

24 of the Municipal Assembly and not the president of the Crisis Staff?

25 A. Yes.

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Page 4379

1 Q. Thank you.

2 Do you know if fire was opened on any occasion against the army

3 before or after the takeover in Prijedor? Was fire opened on the army in

4 Kozarac?

5 A. No, I do not know that.

6 Q. Thank you.

7 I would now like to ask you to remember, if you can, an event in

8 May, on the 13th or 14th of May, at the fire brigade home in Kozarac when

9 Stojan Zupljanin came there, arrived there, from Banja Luka. This is on

10 page 4269, line 1, of the transcript. Who did Stojan Zupljanin request to

11 sign a pledge of loyalty, just the police or the entire population of

12 Kozarac? Can you remember that?

13 A. At that moment, he wanted the police in Kozarac to sign the pledge

14 of loyalty, but by signing such a pledge, because those were police who

15 lived in Kozarac and we knew exactly under which conditions this was to be

16 accepted. So by just signing this pledge of loyalty, if the police signed

17 it, that would mean that all the citizens of Kozarac signed it because

18 they would then become the Serbian police of Kozarac.

19 Q. But he did not request the TO to sign the pledge of loyalty, did

20 he?

21 A. He was not in a position to request that. He was in the

22 republican SUP in Banja Luka. Loyalty was demanded by the military organs

23 in Kozarac.

24 Q. When you became a member of the reserve police force, were you

25 made to sign a solemn declaration on that occasion?

Page 4380

1 A. No, I wasn't.

2 Q. Outside the fire brigade building, did a large number of people

3 assemble outside the building during this meeting, people from Kozarac and

4 from the surrounding villages?

5 A. Those were not people from the surrounding villages. It was a

6 spontaneous gathering of passersby, of people who were passing through

7 Kozarac and heard that there was something going on. So this was no

8 organised rally. People spontaneously gathered outside the fire brigade

9 building in Kozarac.

10 Q. What was their reaction to the fact that the Kozarac police had

11 been requested to sign a pledge of loyalty?

12 A. They asked the police not to sign it.

13 Q. Were there any threats at the same time in case the pledge was not

14 signed?

15 A. Yes, there were threats, of course.

16 Q. After this meeting, the police -- the Kozarac police station

17 department, was it transferred to a new location, the one that you

18 referred to yesterday?

19 A. Not immediately after the meeting. But following that event,

20 Goran Babic, an active-duty policeman remained at the police station

21 there. Ljuban Lukic was also there, a reserve policeman. It was when

22 they left, and other two people, the commander realised that something was

23 going on, and that's when the station was transferred.

24 Q. Thank you.

25 I would now like to go back to asking you something about the 24th

Page 4381

1 of May, 1992. Do you know in which direction the military convoy was

2 moving for which free passage was requested? Was it moving from Banja

3 Luka to Prijedor, or from Prijedor to Banja Luka?

4 A. Major Zeljaja called Commander Osman on that occasion and told him

5 that there was a convoy moving from Prijedor to Banja Luka. He did not

6 mention any other routes or any other military convoys for that matter.

7 Q. Jakupovici, is Jakupovici along the main road from Kozarac to

8 Banja Luka, or in the direction of Prijedor?

9 A. In the direction of Banja Luka.

10 Q. So at the moment when the convoy was in Jakupovici, it was leaving

11 the Kozarac area?

12 A. No. When Major Zeljaja called, at the time when he called, the

13 first time he called, and about 20 minutes later, when he called for a

14 second time and he told us that the convoy had been attacked, there wasn't

15 enough time for the convoy to reach Jakupovici from Kozarac. And it was

16 not like he said that the convoy was in Kozarac; he only said that safe

17 passage for the convoy was to be secured. And as you know, the police in

18 Kozarac secured everything between practically the village of Donja

19 Kozarusa -- this was the area that was controlled by the police -- and

20 then all the way to Jakupovici. So during that period, there was no time

21 for the police to get that far. It could only have been a convoy from

22 Banja Luka on the way to Prijedor, because there was not enough time to

23 reach Jakupovici.

24 Q. Very well. Thank you.

25 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: I don't want to interrupt you unnecessarily. But

Page 4382

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Page 4383

1 it would be interesting for us to follow this on the map. Would it be

2 possible that the usher please presents the map S13, I believe, on the

3 ELMO. And could the Defence please be so kind and let us know, once

4 again, the correct -- or lead the witness to that what he wants to say on

5 the direction.

6 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, for the record, it's S14, the map.

7 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: S14.

8 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

9 Q. Please have a look at the screen and tell us whether the road from

10 Jakupovici to Kozarusa can be seen, and you can fix the map accordingly,

11 because you're more familiar with it than the usher.

12 A. The road in question is here approximately.

13 Q. Banja Luka is situated in what direction?

14 A. In this direction here. Prijedor is in the other direction, and

15 the convoy which had been announced, at the moment when Major Zeljaja

16 called, was not set to be in Kozarusa or in Kozarac. The only thing that

17 it was said was that it -- a military convoy was supposed to pass on its

18 way from Prijedor to Banja Luka.

19 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Sorry. We can't see it on our screen.

20 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

21 Q. Could you move the map a little down, please. Very well. I think

22 we can see it now.

23 Witness, will you please point to Kozarusa and Kozarac?

24 A. This is Kozarusa here.

25 Q. Kozarac.

Page 4384

1 A. Kozarac and Jakupovici. Donja Jakupovici on the road from

2 Prijedor to Banja Luka.

3 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Could the witness please once again demonstrate

4 on the map from where to where the convoy was moving.

5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The convoy, which had been announced

6 by Major Zeljaja, was supposed to leave Prijedor and take the main road

7 towards Banja Luka and reach the villages of Kozarusa, Kozarac, and

8 Jakupovici. In order to pass along that portion of the road, in order to

9 cover this distance, the column -- the convoy would have needed several

10 hours. However, on that day when Zeljaja called, he said that he needed

11 to speak to Commander Osman Didovic who was supposed to let the military

12 convoy pass. The one which was moving from Prijedor towards Banja Luka.

13 He did not say that the convoy was there at the moment. We didn't know

14 where it was.

15 Shortly after that, Zeljaja called again, and he said: "The

16 military convoy had been attacked in Jakupovici." So it is possible --

17 the only possibility was that the military convoy was moving from the

18 direction of Banja Luka, and this is something that he did not say because

19 it was not possible for a military convoy to cover this distance within

20 half an hour.

21 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

22 Q. Will you please tell us the distance between Kozarusa and

23 Jakupovici.

24 A. Kozarusa is about 10 kilometres away from Jakupovici.

25 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Could the witness please point on the map to

Page 4385

1 this village, Jakupovici.

2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The village of Jakupovici is

3 situated here. It is actually the area called Donja Jakupovici where the

4 attack supposedly occurred, as we were told by Major Zeljaja. On the main

5 road connecting Prijedor and Banja Luka, near the village of Donja

6 Jakupovici.

7 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you for this clarification.

8 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

9 Q. Witness R, when Kozarac came under attack and when fighting

10 started with the military, you said that in this police station which had

11 been relocated, a makeshift hospital was organised which was soon to admit

12 first wounded persons. Is that correct?

13 A. Yes, it is.

14 Q. When was this makeshift hospital established?

15 A. When the first wounded started coming in, there were no adequate

16 conditions to administer medical help. The disinfectant used was local

17 brandy. There was nothing in there, there was no equipment, there was no

18 medical supplies to perform basic surgeries. No aid could be administered

19 to those wounded people. And the area which was located in the lower part

20 of this house was then used to house this makeshift hospital.

21 Q. Prior to the outbreak of the conflict, that is, before the 24th of

22 May, 1992, did you see any trenches or dugouts in Kozarac?

23 THE INTERPRETER: We did not hear the answer.

24 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

25 Q. The interpreters did not hear your answer.

Page 4386

1 A. No.

2 Q. Would you please be so kind and explain to us the following: On

3 the 24th of May, 1992, you said that it was then that the shelling

4 started. On the 25th of May, on page 4272, line 12, you said that "it was

5 decided on the 25th of May that Kozarac should surrender and that all

6 requests made by Zeljaja should be met." What happened between the 25th

7 and the 26th when the surrender occurred?

8 A. On the 25th of May, sometime in the afternoon hours on that day,

9 when, like I said, Dr. Pasic and Dr. Azra started to cry, Osman managed to

10 establish contact with Zeljaja. From that point in time up until the

11 early morning hours of the 26th of May, Osman and Zeljaja talked on a

12 number of occasions. Zeljaja first said that the surrender should take

13 place at 7.00, and then he said that it would take place later on. So

14 they kept negotiating like this for a while, and it was on the 26th of

15 May, in the morning of the 26th, that Major Zeljaja's orders were complied

16 with.

17 Q. Do you know whether Mr. Becir Medunjanin also surrendered?

18 A. No, he did not.

19 Q. How big was the group that went to the Kozara forests with him, if

20 you know?

21 A. Just his group, the people who had gathered outside this makeshift

22 police station.

23 Q. Did you take part in the recording of a video which was made by

24 Bosniaks and whose subject was the arming of the Kozarac population in

25 front of the police station department in Kozarac?

Page 4387

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Page 4388

1 A. No, I did not. I am not familiar with any such videotape.

2 Q. Are you familiar with the event which was filmed; that is, arming

3 of the population which took place outside the Kozarac police station?

4 A. I know that a shipment containing medicines which had arrived from

5 Germany, which had been sent by local seasonal workers living in Germany

6 was filmed, and the interpretation was that it was the arming of the local

7 population in Kozarac. That is all I know about.

8 Q. Thank you.

9 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: The trial stands adjourned until 11.00.

10 --- Recess taken at 10.24 a.m.

11 --- On resuming at 11.03 a.m.

12 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Please be seated. And please, continue.

13 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

14 Q. Witness R, can we continue?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. I think we have been pretty successful so far. Would you please

17 continue following the screen and make sure that the text stops before you

18 proceed with your answer.

19 We have established that you are not a professional police

20 officer. (redacted), and that can be described as your

21 profession. Is that correct?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. When did you join the reserve police force?

24 A. What do you mean? When I was given my war assignment, or when I

25 started my duty service there?

Page 4389

1 Q. Well, if it's not a problem and if you can remember, can you tell

2 us about both?

3 A. In November 1990, I signed out for equipment at the Prijedor SUP.

4 As for regular duty shifts, they started sometime when the conflict in

5 Croatia broke out.

6 Q. It was in late summer, beginning of autumn 1991. Is that correct?

7 A. Yes, approximately. But I don't know exactly when.

8 Q. As a reserve police officer, did you receive salary?

9 A. No.

10 Q. On page 4.285, when you testified about your detention in the

11 Omarska camp, you mentioned, among others, Miroslav Kvocka. Was Miroslav

12 Kvocka a member of Cigo's police?

13 A. No, he was not. He was an active police officer who served at the

14 Omarska police station department.

15 Q. Are you familiar with the fact that on the 23rd of June, 1992,

16 Miroslav Kvocka was sent away from Omarska?

17 A. No, I'm not.

18 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, I'm sorry to interrupt Defence

19 counsel. But could we please have a redaction on page 27, line 18. And

20 if you would like my reasons, could we please go into private session.

21 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: It should be redacted.

22 MR. LUKIC: [In English] No objection.

23 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you.

24 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

25 Q. You were in the Omarska camp ever since it was established. Is

Page 4390

1 this correct?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. You were in Room 15. Therefore, you were not able to see

4 everything that was going on in Omarska given the fact that you spent most

5 of the time sheltered, so to speak. However, I should like to ask you a

6 few questions, and please answer me to the best of your knowledge.

7 Are you familiar with the fact that during the first ten days of

8 the month of June, quite a few people, approximately 70 per day, were

9 released from the camp, having previously been interrogated?

10 A. Yes, I am.

11 Q. You yourself were interrogated only once in Omarska. Is that

12 correct?

13 A. Yes, it is.

14 Q. Do you know who your interrogator was?

15 A. I was interrogated by Zarko Tejic. I believe that the family name

16 of the other investigator was Babic, but I don't really know him. I don't

17 know his name.

18 Q. Thank you. Did they know you?

19 A. Yes, they did.

20 Q. They knew you were a wealthy man?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. They knew you were a member of the reserve police force and that

23 you had been armed?

24 A. Yes, they did.

25 Q. Did they beat you?

Page 4391

1 A. No, they did not.

2 Q. Let me now go back to the events which took place after the 24th

3 of May, 1992. Do you know whether any of the police officers were killed

4 in the fighting which occurred on that day in Kozarac?

5 A. I don't know that, because there was no fighting in Kozarac.

6 Kozarac was shelled from a distance, from a greater distance, from distant

7 gridlocks, so to speak, so there was no fighting in the town of Kozarac.

8 Q. Are you familiar with the fact that armed Bosniaks, those who had

9 left Kozarac, attempted, at one point in time, to recapture the town and

10 that Kozarac was attacked after Serb forces had been captured as part of

11 the plan to recapture the town?

12 A. No. I'm not familiar with that fact.

13 Q. I know that you were detained in the Omarska camp at that time.

14 However, I would like to know whether you had heard, after you had been

15 released from the Manjaca camp, if any police officers were killed in

16 fighting which occurred after the pullout from Kozarac, on the Kozara

17 mountain?

18 A. I'm not familiar with any such information.

19 Q. Very well. Thank you.

20 Where were your parents during the war? Please, do not mention

21 their names.

22 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: We can go in private session, please.

23 [Private session]

24 (redacted)

25 (redacted)

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Page 4394

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5 (redacted)

6 [Open session]

7 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Confirmed. Please continue.

8 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

9 Q. After the surrender on the 26th of May, 1992, where did the people

10 from the so-called Kola's group go, if you know?

11 A. No, I don't know that.

12 Q. Before this, had you been made aware of the existence of the

13 so-called Ramiz's group?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Do you know where Mr. Cirkin, Mr. Sead Cirkin, left with his men?

16 A. No.

17 Q. Do you know where Mr. Selimbegovic went after the conflict with

18 his men?

19 A. To the Keraterm camp. That's where I saw him. And thereafter, to

20 the investigation prison in Banja Luka, or in Gradiska. I'm not sure.

21 But I saw him in Keraterm, Mr. Selimbegovic.

22 Q. Thank you.

23 You spoke about the fact that your war assignment had been changed

24 in order for you to avoid the mobilisation into the 5th Kozarac Brigade.

25 At that time, did you know, or do you know now, that the police forces in

Page 4395

1 case of war, or in case of imminent threat of war, are considered as

2 constituent part of the armed forces?

3 A. Yes, I was aware of that. But I was also aware of the fact that

4 the 5th Kozarac Brigade was mobilising people and deploying them to the

5 theatre of war in Croatia which was not the case with the police, although

6 I know that the Prijedor SUP did send volunteers to the battlefield in

7 Croatia, but only if they were volunteers. So that was one reason. And

8 the other reason was the fact that I had to attend very frequent military

9 exercises which were seven to ten days long. So these are the two reasons

10 for which I did not want to be part of the 5th Kozarac Brigade.

11 Q. You told us about the equipment and weapons that you had signed

12 out for as a reserve police officer. Was that the regular kind of

13 equipment, the regular type of weapons, and did other reserve police

14 officers sign for the same?

15 A. Reserve police officer, at least at the Prijedor -- Kozarac, I'm

16 sorry, police station signed for the same kind of equipment and weapons.

17 Q. As a member of the reserve police force, did you have any

18 knowledge as to the fact that the Kozarac population was preparing any

19 defence?

20 A. If there was any such preparation, it merely consisted in

21 organising local population, the people who were afraid of what was going

22 to happen. But I never heard of anyone in Kozarac speaking about a

23 possible attack on Omarska or any other Serb village. If people did

24 organise themselves, the only purpose of that was to defend themselves,

25 and not to attack anyone.

Page 4396

1 Q. Did you know of the plan of the BH Army to defend the left bank of

2 the Sana River, considering the fact that Kozarac itself was on the right

3 riverbank, or that this plan defined Kozarac as impossible to defend and

4 that the population was to be evacuated to the left riverbank of the Sana

5 River and set up a line of defence there? Did you know anything about the

6 existence of this plan?

7 A. No, I knew nothing of any such plans. I only knew that we, the

8 common people, who really lived a normal life in Kozarac, tried to keep it

9 that way.

10 Q. Can you please tell us, what sort of tasks did Mr. Osman Didovic

11 run? Do you know his official title?

12 A. Osman Didovic was the commander of the Kozarac police station.

13 Q. Was the Kozarac police station department part of the public

14 security station in Prijedor? At least before the conflict?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. How about after the 30th of April, after the takeover? Was it

17 still part of the public security station in Prijedor?

18 A. Since the signing of the pledge of loyalty, since that meeting,

19 and since the takeover on the 30th of April, prior to these things, things

20 were more or less functioning normally. But since these events, the

21 police station in Kozarac was no longer part of the public security

22 station. And after the arrival of Zupljanin in Kozarac because you

23 couldn't get any fuel for vehicles. All of these things were denied us.

24 Q. Do you know when Mr. Didovic, in his capacity as the commander of

25 the police station department in Omarska, stopped sending reports on his

Page 4397

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Page 4398

1 work to the public security station in Prijedor?

2 A. No, I know nothing about this.

3 Q. Do you know who his duty was to report to?

4 A. I don't know who he reported to. I only know that Brane Bolta, an

5 active police officer from Prijedor, worked at the Kozarac police station

6 until the takeover. But then he left the station. I was on duty together

7 with him, and he said he was going on sick leave. So I believe it must

8 have functioned up to that point; but after that, Brane Bolta did not

9 return to Kozarac.

10 Q. Can we then conclude that the checkpoints manned by people from

11 the Kozarac police station department were not part of the public security

12 station in Prijedor?

13 A. I'm not familiar with this.

14 Q. Do you know that there existed an agreement between the BH MUP and

15 the JNA to return all weapons of military origin to the nearest barracks?

16 A. No, I did not know this.

17 Q. Did you ever see the text of what you have referred to as the

18 pledge of loyalty to Republika Srpska?

19 A. No, I didn't.

20 Q. Did you ever release a statement to the Agency for Information and

21 Documentation of the BH government, known as AID?

22 A. No, I didn't. I never gave any statement to any such agencies. I

23 only once organised, through the Camp Inmates' Club of (redacted) to have our

24 experiences in the camps recorded, written down, and to be circulated

25 among the inmates, the ex-inmates, from Bosnia and Herzegovina, but I was

Page 4399

1 not directly involved in anything else.

2 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, Your Honour.

3 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Please, the town on page 35, line 21, the town,

4 please, to be deleted from the transcript.

5 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

6 Q. Are you still in a third country at the moment?

7 A. Yes. Yes, I am.

8 Q. Without referring to this third country and its name, can you tell

9 us about your current status?

10 A. My status is now resolved, and I have a permit to stay in this

11 country.

12 Q. Is your residence in this country of limited or unlimited

13 duration?

14 A. Right now, I'm entitled to stay for as long as March 2003. And

15 after that, I will get an unlimited permit to stay. I got this thanks to

16 my work, because after I arrived in (redacted) between 1992 and 1993, I

17 started working there. And it was this that my right to stay was based

18 on.

19 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Please, the country be redacted from page 36,

20 line 13.

21 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

22 Q. Did you, at a certain point, have any problems obtaining a visa --

23 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: At the present moment, I cannot see the

24 relevance of these line of questions.

25 MR. LUKIC: [In English], Your Honour, this is a normal line of

Page 4400

1 questions whenever we want to impeach the credibility of the witness. I

2 used this in front of this Tribunal at least 20 times.

3 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: That may be, but until now, I can't really

4 identify how this can amount to a question of credibility. I think we

5 agree that it has nothing to do with the matter of the case before us.

6 Right.

7 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, if I -- the Prosecution wrote a

8 letter to a foreign government on behalf of this witness in June 1998,

9 requesting that he not be repatriated from that country until we have had

10 an opportunity to speak to this witness. The witness has testified that

11 he received a permit because of his employment since that date, I think.

12 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: The Defence may proceed.

13 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can the usher please be so kind as to

14 show our witness a document.

15 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: May it be first shown to the Prosecutor. Thank

16 you.

17 MR. LUKIC: [In English] We received this from the Prosecution

18 yesterday, Your Honour. But I don't have an English version now, if they

19 can help us with providing you with the English version.

20 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: The document is in B/C/S?

21 MR. LUKIC: This is in B/C/S, yes.

22 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Would it be adequate that we ask the witness to

23 read this document out to facilitate the proceedings.

24 MR. LUKIC: Yes, please.

25 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, could we do it in private session,

Page 4401

1 please.

2 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: We go into private session and ask then the

3 Witness to read this document out.

4 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreters have not been provided with the

5 document.

6 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: I'm aware. So please read very slowly because

7 the interpreters don't have the document.

8 [Private session]

9 (redacted)

10 (redacted)

11 (redacted)

12 (redacted)

13 (redacted)

14 (redacted)

15 (redacted)

16 (redacted)

17 (redacted)

18 (redacted)

19 (redacted)

20 (redacted)

21 (redacted)

22 (redacted)

23 (redacted)

24 (redacted)

25 (redacted)

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Page 4404

1 (redacted)

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5 [Open session]

6 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, the copy of the page that the

7 Defence were provided with, certain information was redacted from it. The

8 witness's personal identification number and his current address, current

9 whereabouts, and some other information which included the first line of

10 the document. If the Defence would like to look at it, it says it's from

11 the court in Sanski Most. It's provided by the court. I can ask the

12 witness whether he knows who the signature --

13 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: So, let's please first turn to the

14 re-examination, and then you can take the opportunity to introduce this,

15 and we can later on come to the question of the admission of the evidence.

16 I believe a compromise could be that we admit this document as it

17 was tendered into evidence, and another copy as provided by the OTP under

18 the same number -2. Would it be appropriate?

19 MS. SUTHERLAND: With the witness's current whereabouts redacted.

20 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: In any event, it should go under seal, this

21 document.

22 MS. SUTHERLAND: Yes, Your Honour. But we don't reveal the

23 current whereabouts of witnesses to the Defence.

24 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Does the Defence want to make any remarks on the

25 source of this document?

Page 4405

1 MR. LUKIC: [In English] According to the document it's obvious

2 that it has been issued by the municipal court, so it's not an issue at

3 all. We just wanted to confirm to whom it has been sent.

4 MS. SUTHERLAND: It's on the record, Your Honour.

5 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: So any objections that the address be redacted?

6 MR. LUKIC: No objections, Your Honour. We don't need the

7 address.

8 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Then let's proceed this way: And you have

9 another copy of the same document, or what is your --

10 MS. SUTHERLAND: The Prosecution will provide it, Your Honour.

11 The Prosecution will provide another copy with the current whereabouts

12 redacted.

13 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. Then this document is admitted into

14 evidence under number D9B, and to the list of exhibits and the last

15 column, it may be added that the translation can be found on the

16 transcript of 11 June, 2002, page 38, line 8 and following. Thank you.

17 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, just for the record, my learned

18 friend said that he received the document yesterday. Of course, the B/C/S

19 version was disclosed on the 18th of January this year, and the English

20 translation was disclosed on the 10th of April this year. And we will

21 provide a copy of the English translation as well to the Court.

22 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Then the English translation will go under D9A.

23 But nevertheless, the French translation can be found on the transcript.

24 MS. SUTHERLAND: I have two matters in re-examination, Your

25 Honour.

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Page 4407

1 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Yes, please.

2 Re-examined by Ms. Sutherland:

3 Q. Sir, during cross-examination, you were asked whether the Kozarac

4 police station transferred to its new location after the meeting with

5 Zupljanin on or about the 14th or 15th of May, 1992. And your response

6 was that not immediately, after Goran Babic, and I think you said Ljubo

7 Lukic left, the commander realised something was going on and that's when

8 the station was transferred. Am I correct with the two names?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. What is the ethnicity of Goran Babic and Ljubo Lukic?

11 A. Both of them are Serbs.

12 Q. On a different matter, you were -- I'm sorry, the reference to

13 that was on page 21, line 14 and following.

14 You were asked about another matter, LiveNote page 26, line 21,

15 about a videorecording that was made by the Bosniaks outside the Kozarac

16 police station. You said this involved a shipment containing medicines

17 from Germany, and that the interpretation was that it was arming of the

18 local population in Kozarac. Do you recall that?

19 A. Yes. I said that I knew about this tape, and the fact that it was

20 doctored and that the event was misinterpreted. And it is true that this

21 shipment of medicines was used as a pretext for the charges that the

22 weapons had arrived in Kozarac.

23 Q. A couple of questions on that: Do you recall when this occurred?

24 A. No, no, I don't.

25 Q. Do you recall whose interpretation it was that it was the arming

Page 4408

1 of the local population?

2 A. It was the Serb Radio Prijedor and the Banja Luka TV that

3 misrepresented this event and broadcast it that way.

4 Q. Who doctored the tape?

5 A. I don't know that.

6 Q. But you're saying the Serb Radio Prijedor and Banja Luka

7 television were the ones that played this misrepresented videotape?

8 MR. LUKIC: Objection, Your Honour. The witness answered the

9 question that he doesn't know that.

10 MS. SUTHERLAND: He doesn't know the name of the person who

11 doctored the tape.

12 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: I believe it's a slightly different question.

13 Therefore, dismissed.

14 MS. SUTHERLAND:

15 Q. Sir, are you saying that it was Serb Radio Prijedor and Banja Luka

16 television who played the misrepresented videotape?

17 A. What I saw was made by the Prijedor Serb radio and the Banja Luka

18 TV. I don't know about any other tape. I don't know if there's any other

19 such footage. What I saw was the unloading of this shipment of medicines

20 that had arrived from Germany, and they described it as the distribution

21 of weapons in Kozarac. And this was the tape that I know about, and it

22 was made in Prijedor and Banja Luka.

23 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, could I have a moment.

24 [Prosecution counsel confer]

25 MS. SUTHERLAND: I have no further questions for the witness.

Page 4409

1 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you.

2 Questioned by the Court:

3 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Very brief. This morning you were asked by the

4 Defence about the number of policemen in Kozarac. Only if you really know

5 something about the number of the policemen in Prijedor before and after

6 that what is called "the takeover," could you please give us this number

7 on estimate?

8 A. Excuse me. In Kozarac or in Prijedor? Are you referring to the

9 Kozarac police station or?

10 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: You've given already a sufficient answer to the

11 question on Kozarac. And my question would be now in Prijedor, what about

12 the number of policemen in Prijedor? Do you know any detailed number?

13 A. I don't. No, I don't have any such information.

14 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you for this clear answer.

15 Judge Fassi Fihri? No questions. Judge Vassylenko.

16 JUDGE VASSYLENKO: Witness R, in your statement in October of the

17 last year, you said that after the April takeover in Prijedor, checkpoints

18 in Kozarac were manned by a military police soldiers and reservists who --

19 it's page 3, English version, excuse me -- "military police soldiers and

20 reservists who wore various uniforms including the Kokarda caps worn by

21 Chetniks, the JNA and the Republika Srpska uniforms."

22 Did such mixture of people in different uniforms were

23 characteristic only for Kozarac checkpoint or for other checkpoints?

24 A. It was typical for the Kozarac checkpoint.

25 JUDGE VASSYLENKO: And then whom or what body these different

Page 4410

1 people were subordinated to?

2 A. I really don't know. Believe me.

3 JUDGE VASSYLENKO: As far as I understand, you were a detainee of

4 Omarska camp. Was this camp manned by military or police?

5 A. The camp was led by the police, because the commander of the camp

6 was an active police officer. As for the guards, there were probably

7 soldiers amongst them as well, but the camp was under the police control

8 generally speaking.

9 JUDGE VASSYLENKO: And whom the commander of the camp was

10 subordinated to?

11 A. Well, I guess it was subordinated to Simo Drljaca. Who else?

12 Because at the time, he was the chief of SUP in Prijedor.

13 JUDGE VASSYLENKO: In your October statement, last year October

14 statement, you said that "I heard" -- it's again, page 3, English version

15 of the statement- you said: "I heard speak regularly on the radio were

16 Milomir Stakic, the new Serbian mayor of Prijedor, head of the Crisis

17 Staff Prijedor, and Milan Kovacevic, the president of the Executive

18 Board."

19 What was Milomir Stakic talking about during his appearances on

20 Radio Prijedor? And what was the subject matter of his interventions,

21 radio interventions?

22 A. Usually, such statements and such announcements could be

23 interpreted differently, in two ways. He spoke about the fact that the

24 new government in Prijedor guaranteed safety to its citizens. After that,

25 he appealed to Muslims and non-Serb population generally to surrender the

Page 4411

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12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and

13 English transcripts.

14

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24

25

Page 4412

1 weapons. So of course, as far as the Serb population was concerned, it

2 meant safety. Others were referred to in the context of surrendering

3 weapons. At least, that is how I heard it.

4 JUDGE VASSYLENKO: Thank you, Witness R. I have no more

5 questions.

6 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: May we go for a moment into private session.

7 [Private session]

8 (redacted)

9 (redacted)

10 (redacted)

11 (redacted)

12 (redacted)

13 (redacted)

14 (redacted)

15 (redacted)

16 (redacted)

17 (redacted)

18 (redacted)

19 (redacted)

20 (redacted)

21 (redacted)

22 (redacted)

23 (redacted)

24 (redacted)

25 (redacted)

Page 4413

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11

12 Page 4413 redacted private session.

13

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25

Page 4414

1 (redacted)

2 (redacted)

3 (redacted)

4 (redacted)

5 (redacted)

6 (redacted)

7 (redacted)

8 (redacted)

9 (redacted)

10 [Open session].

11 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: We are in open session as we should be. Yes,

12 thank you.

13 Anything else as regards -- first of all, the question of

14 translations into French. Was the OTP able to identify which documents of

15 the famous lists 2 and 3 we can find in French?

16 MR. KOUMJIAN: I have a short but disappointing answer. None of

17 them are translated into French.

18 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you for this clear answer. Anything else

19 at the moment?

20 So then I think the document we started yesterday, it's still

21 available. If not, please have it available in the booths for the time

22 after the break. It was Document 62. It was read out until the end of

23 Roman I, and we should start after the break with Roman II and come to the

24 end.

25 May I ask, did the Defence receive this bundle of additional

Page 4415

1 documents on the question whether or not there is a signature that could

2 be, if wanted, recognised by the Defence?

3 MR. LUKIC: Yes, Your Honour. We received the list, so we are

4 photocopying it, and we have to handle it to -- hand it to Mr. Stakic.

5 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: So this can be dealt with from Monday next

6 week -- from Tuesday -- Monday it should be.

7 MR. LUKIC: Monday, because we have Friday off and we'll use that

8 day to visit our client.

9 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. Anything in addition right now?

10 Then I would suggest it would be really helpful -- I don't know whether or

11 not the OTP has the documents under list 2 and 3 available in another

12 binder to give it -- to give at least the next following documents already

13 during the break to the booths. That enables us to proceed on this basis.

14 MR. KOUMJIAN: Actually, our binder is with the court reporter at

15 the moment. We don't have them.

16 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Yes. I think it will be no problem. Here is

17 also another document available. Please make use of these documents, and

18 the Registrar also, of course, has one of these binders. Just for saving

19 time, let's say the next 20 documents in this binder for the afternoon

20 session.

21 Then the trial stays adjourned until 2.00.

22 --- Luncheon recess taken at 12.24 p.m.

23 --- On resuming at 2.05 p.m.

24 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Please be seated. We are really grateful to

25 know that from now on, the documents can be read out in B/C/S. I have the

Page 4416

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12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and

13 English transcripts.

14

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24

25

Page 4417

1 impression it will give us the best access to the documents and at the

2 same time will facilitate the life at least in the French booth, if I

3 understand it correctly.

4 MS. SUTHERLAND: Your Honour, just before we start the documents,

5 can I please make an application to have the last witness, Witness R's

6 testimony, released to the Brdjanin/Talic trial team. The witness has

7 agreed to testify in that case, and we wish to disclose that transcript

8 under the same conditions that he has been granted here.

9 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Right. Objections?

10 MR. LUKIC: We don't have any objections, Your Honour.

11 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. Then granted. And --

12 MS. SUTHERLAND: And that is the private session testimony as

13 well, the whole transcript.

14 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: The whole transcript. Just for the record,

15 could we add the entire Defence, please, Mr. Lukic.

16 MR. LUKIC: Yes. Mr. John Ostojic is with us, so the Defence is

17 represented today by Branko Lukic, Mr. John Ostojic, and case manager

18 Mr. Danilo Cirkovic.

19 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: May we then proceed and continue Document 62

20 with -- starting with Roman II. It reads in English: "Rights and duties

21 of the local Crisis Staffs."

22 THE INTERPRETER OF THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] "The rights and

23 duties of the local Crisis Staff. Number 6: The basic tasks of the

24 regional Crisis Staffs are: The implementation and coordination of

25 government functions in the area of the region, seeing to it that the

Page 4418

1 region is efficiently protected, and securing all the conditions necessary

2 for successfully carrying out combat operations. Security control of the

3 territory, protecting the personal safety and property owned by citizens

4 and socially-owned property, ensuring that all the legal provisions are

5 consistently observed. Securing permanent synchronisation and

6 coordination of measures by the army and the police in the region's

7 territory. Organising and taking preventive and operative measures of

8 civilian protection. Developing various forms and methods of information

9 and political propaganda. Organising and reviving economic functions,

10 especially the agricultural ones. The sowing, the reaping, the

11 harvesting, and the collection of other fruits of agricultural labour.

12 And organising the purchase of agricultural products. Organising the

13 supplies, including the traffic and technical supplies, security.

14 Organising health care and administering medical aid to the wounded and

15 sick. Organising the necessary help and assistance to the families of

16 soldiers who were killed.

17 "Number 7: The regional Crisis Staffs shall monitor and assess

18 the situation in their region, and accordingly, take the necessary

19 measures.

20 "Number 8: The regional Crisis Staffs will be responsible for

21 their work to the Crisis Staff of Prijedor Municipality which they will

22 report to on a regular basis about problems on the ground and its own

23 work.

24 "Number 9: The adjacent regional Crisis Staffs shall be

25 responsible for establishing close coordination, mutually exchange

Page 4419

1 information, and coordinate a number of activities.

2 "Number 10: Regional Crisis Staffs shall decide issues within the

3 competence of the former local communes and local communes assemblies

4 should these be unable to convene.

5 "Number 11: Regional Crisis Staffs shall conduct other activities

6 in compliance with the decisions of the assemblies and the government of

7 the Republika Srpska and the Prijedor Crisis Staff.

8 Roman number III: The composition of the regional Crisis Staff:

9 "Number 12: The composition of the regional Crisis Staff shall,

10 as a rule, be as follows: Number 1, the president of the regional Crisis

11 Staff; number 2, the deputy president of the regional Crisis Staff; number

12 3, assistant to the president for military issues; number 4, security

13 assistant to the president; number 5, civilian protection assistant to the

14 president; number 6, the political activity and information assistant to

15 the president; and number 7, logistics assistant to the president.

16 "The regional Crisis Staff can have a bigger number of members.

17 This will be decided by the Prijedor Municipality Crisis Staff by

18 nominating members to the regional Crisis Staff.

19 "Number 13: Members of the staff, according to their positions,

20 are: Commander of the military unit, whose zone of responsibility is in

21 the area of that region, shall be appointed the assistant to the president

22 for military issues; and the senior officer of the police station, which

23 covers the area of that region, shall be appointed assistant to the

24 president for security issues.

25 "Number 14: The remaining members of the staff shall be appointed

Page 4420

1 from among civilian persons, pursuant to points 3 and 4 of these

2 instructions.

3 "Number V: The scope of the activities of members of the Crisis

4 Staff:

5 "Number 15: In carrying out the functions of the regional Crisis

6 Staff as a collegial body, each of its members will have a specific scope

7 of activity as follows: Number 1, president of the staff shall coordinate

8 the work of the staff, shall coordinate and implement the decisions and

9 conclusions of the staff on the establishment and maintenance of contacts

10 with the Municipal Crisis Staff and the adjacent regional Crisis Staffs,

11 providing regular information on the activities of the regional Crisis

12 Staff and implementing its decisions and orders, monitoring the military,

13 security, and political situation in the regional territory, preparing the

14 staff sessions, presiding the staff sessions, signing the acts produced by

15 the staff, representing the staff in official meetings and in contacts

16 with authorised officials, undertaking other duties and tasks, and

17 requesting responsibilities in the implementation of the staff's'

18 functions.

19 "2: Deputy president of the staff shall coordinate activities and

20 see to the consequent implementation of the staff's functions, civilian

21 protection, political work and information, as well as logistic support.

22 He shall assist the president in his tasks and shall deputise him in his

23 absence.

24 "Number 3: Assistant to the president for military issues shall

25 undertake measures and activities in compliance with the orders of the

Page 4421

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12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and

13 English transcripts.

14

15

16

17

18

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20

21

22

23

24

25

Page 4422

1 superior command. His obligation to the regional Crisis Staff is to

2 attend the sessions of the staff and regularly inform the staff about the

3 military situation in the regions territory, as well as to propose

4 measures to be taken by the staff for efficient conduct of military

5 operations.

6 "Number 4: Assistant to the president for security shall

7 regularly inform the staff, during sessions, on the security situation in

8 the region. It should propose to the staff measures to be taken for a

9 more successful realisation of security duties, make sure security

10 measures and activities are effectively implemented, especially the

11 following: Control of the security of the territory, detection of

12 infiltrated enemy groups and individuals and prevention of their

13 activities; protection of the personal safety and property of citizens and

14 socially-owned property, especially vitally important facilities, taking

15 care that the existing regulations concerning public order are observed,

16 the prevention of smuggling and war profiteering, discovering and stopping

17 all other occurrences and behaviour of interest to security matters. All

18 this, as well as other things is to be carried out in accordance with the

19 orders and instructions of the Prijedor public security station.

20 "Number 5: The president's assistant for civil protection, in

21 charge of the organisation and operations of civil protection in the local

22 territory, and particularly the performance of civil protection

23 activities, especially the following: The evacuation of the population

24 and material resources, medical first aid, the sheltering of endangered

25 people and victims, fire protection and rescue, protection and rescue from

Page 4423

1 explosions, protection and rescue from destruction, blackouts, clearing

2 the terrain [Identification and burial of the dead, burial of dead

3 animals, disinfection, disinfection, and deratisation]; regular provision

4 of information to the staff on the state of civil protection, establishing

5 contact with the municipal civil protection staff, informing it about the

6 situation and carrying out its orders and instructions.

7 "Number 6: The president's assistant for political work and

8 information organises and develops the most diverse forms and methods of

9 information and political propaganda activities; identifies and implements

10 the most effective ways to promptly and accurately inform the population;

11 prevent the spreading of rumours, misinformation, and possible defeatism,

12 and improve combat morale and the work ethic. Works on developing the

13 security awareness of citizens; establishes contact with the municipal

14 secretariat for information and supplies it with important information;

15 organises other public events and propaganda activities appropriate to a

16 given moment.

17 "Number 7: The president's assistant for logistics organises the

18 revival of the economy; works on using the available human resources,

19 equipment, and livestock in agriculture [Sowing, harvesting, threshing,

20 mowing, and the gathering of other agricultural produce]; organises the

21 compulsory purchase of agricultural produce [Wheat, vegetables, milk, milk

22 products, fruits, eggs]; encourages the production of meat in livestock;

23 monitors the situation in supply of basic foodstuffs in the territory."

24 Now, there is a part that is illegible in the original, so it has

25 been erased. The text continues: "And work with the necessary goods and

Page 4424

1 takes measures to improve supplies; organises the establishment of

2 appropriate records and files of persons and families in the worst

3 situation and takes measures to provide them with help, while especially

4 taking care of the families of dead soldiers and war invalids; should

5 there be rationing of supplies, he organises the establishment of

6 appropriate records on the orders and instructions of the authorised

7 municipal organ; organises medical protection and care for the wounded and

8 the sick; organises the hygienic and epidemiological control of the

9 territory; makes sure there is a supply of fuel for agricultural

10 production and other priority users; makes sure the requirements for armed

11 combat are provided; provides for full veterinary protection; takes

12 measures on establishing traffic flow; encourages the work of the service

13 sector; takes other measures essential for the functioning of life in the

14 local territory; establishes contact with the municipal secretarial for

15 economic and social affairs; and carries out most of these duties with

16 inspection teams and with the help of this municipal organ.

17 "Number V: The work methods of the local Crisis Staffs:

18 "16: The local Crisis Staffs are to operate through meetings

19 unless they are justifiably unavailable. All members of the Crisis Staff

20 shall regularly attend meetings and the staff shall pass valid decisions

21 if more than half of its members are present. In emergency situations,

22 the staff may pass valid decisions without a quorum; that is, with the

23 staff members who are available.

24 "17: It is preferable for the local Crisis Staff to pass

25 decisions, conclusions, and other enactments unanimously. But if no

Page 4425

1 consensus is reached during the discussion, the proposal that receives the

2 majority of votes of the staff members present shall be valid. In

3 exceptionally urgent situations, the staff president may decide on issues

4 for which the staff is normally competent, but he is obliged to inform the

5 staff of this at the next meeting, and it may then confirm that decision

6 or take a different stand.

7 "Number 18: The meetings of the local Crisis Staff are to be

8 called by the staff president, and he chairs the meetings. In the

9 president's absence, the vice-president shall do this. The course of the

10 meeting is determined by the agenda agreed on at the beginning of the

11 meeting. Specific conclusions are determined for each item on the agenda

12 along with the names of those responsible for their implementation and the

13 deadline for their realisation. As a rule, each staff meeting has the

14 following three fixed agenda items:

15 "Number 1: Report about the realisation of the conclusions from

16 the previous meetings; number 2, briefing on the current military

17 situation on the local territory, and in the wider area as needed and if

18 possible; and, number 3, briefing about the current security situation on

19 the local territory, and in the wider area as needed and if possible.

20 "Number 19: It is obligatory to keep minutes of each local Crisis

21 Staff meeting and a special book of minutes is to be set up for this

22 purpose. It is considered a confidential document and should be treated

23 as such when it comes to its protection and safekeeping. Depending on the

24 need [And the possibility] one of the following will be put together after

25 each meeting, either a shortened version of the minutes, an excerpt from

Page 4426

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12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and

13 English transcripts.

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24

25

Page 4427

1 the minutes, or the conclusions and decisions, et cetera, and they are to

2 be delivered to those they concern. All these documents are to be

3 previously recorded in the book of protocol, and depending on the

4 contents, are to be labelled either strictly confidential, confidential,

5 or internal.

6 "Number 20: Persons who are not members of the Crisis Staff may

7 also be invited to staff meetings if their attendance is necessary for

8 certain issues; the matter is decided by the staff president.

9 "Number 21: The local Crisis Staff is to establish a special mail

10 record book [Protocol] In which it logs its own documents and the mail

11 received. The protocol book is to be divided in three parts in terms of

12 confidentiality: Strictly confidential, confidential, or internal.

13 "22: When it is possible and deemed necessary, an especially

14 trustworthy, experienced, and efficient person may be designated to take

15 the minutes at staff meetings, draft the conclusions, and other staff

16 documents, keep the protocol book, and take care of other administrative

17 and technical business of the staff. The local Crisis Staff shall decide

18 on this after having first obtained the opinion and approval of the

19 Prijedor Municipality Crisis Staff.

20 "23: The local Crisis Staff may and should establish certain

21 working groups, commissions, and other temporary or permanent bodies of

22 the staff to implement certain decisions. This is especially important

23 when it comes down to issues within the staff jurisdiction that have to do

24 with logistics, political propaganda, and information activities, civil

25 protection, and other issues.

Page 4428

1 "24: Because of the complex nature, extent, and importance of

2 logistical support, aside from the working bodies from the previous item,

3 it is imperative to appoint permanent officers as follows: An officer for

4 medical support, a quartermaster, an officer for traffic, technical and

5 engineering support, a supplies officer, and a crop-purchasing officer.

6 "Roman number VI: Final provisions.

7 "25: These instructions shall come into effect on the day they

8 are passed and shall have the same force as a decision.

9 "26: Local Crisis Staffs have the duty to consistently adhere to

10 the provisions of these instructions and take the appropriate measures and

11 actions accordingly.

12 "27: These instructions are considered a strictly confidential

13 document; and as such, they must be protected and handled with care.

14 In the lower left corner, there is the abbreviation "strictly

15 confidential number." Below: "Prijedor." And below: "June 1992." On

16 the right-hand side: "President of the Crisis Staff, Dr. Milomir Stakic."

17 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you.

18 THE INTERPRETER: Your Honour, the English booth was not provided

19 with the beginning of the reading, so the first part what you have heard

20 was a simultaneous interpretation and did not correspond with the written

21 translation. Thank you.

22 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: I think we are all aware of this, but thank you

23 for this clarification.

24 For the protocol, we have to state that on this document, we

25 cannot find a number and we cannot find a special date in June 1992. May

Page 4429

1 I ask the OTP, is there any, as it was said yesterday, more original copy

2 of this document?

3 MR. KOUMJIAN: Actually, at the moment I don't even have a copy

4 because the booth has mine. The evidence unit always has the original --

5 well, the document that we seized would be in the evidence unit, which may

6 be a copy.

7 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: But my understanding is you don't have any other

8 copy, for example, with a number or with a concrete date on it?

9 MR. KOUMJIAN: Not that I'm aware of.

10 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: The same question is true, of course, when we

11 turn now to Document Number 63. I hope that it will be readable, but

12 possibly you have another document. On the top right-hand side of the

13 document, you can find the remark handwritten six times. Mr. Lukic,

14 please.

15 MR. LUKIC: I apologise, Your Honour. But we heard the

16 explanation from the English booth, that they didn't have the document

17 from the very beginning. So I would just like to give one short

18 explanation. At the beginning, this staff was translated as regional, and

19 it should be translated as local Crisis Staff, because there is a regional

20 Crisis Staff on the Autonomous Region of Krajina level. So we don't want

21 the two of these to be confused because obviously this Crisis Staff had to

22 report to the municipal Crisis Staff.

23 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: May I ask whether or not the French booth had

24 the document in B/C/S available?

25 Registry, can you tell us whether or not the French booth had this

Page 4430

1 document in B/C/S?

2 THE INTERPRETER: The French booth did not have the document in

3 B/C/S. It was using the English document but listening to the B/C/S.

4 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you.

5 I thank the Defence counsel for this clarification. We are aware

6 that in any event in English, we have now the -- let's put it this way an

7 English version on the transcript, and as well a certified translation in

8 the list of exhibits.

9 And 63B, is there a more readable copy available, or will it be

10 possible for the registry to read out on the basis of the document we have

11 before us with the number ending with 28? That's our copy.

12 [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]

13 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: I think when the document is not readable for

14 the registry, we have to take the necessary consequences and wait until

15 the document in B/C/S is available. Otherwise, I can't see the probative

16 value of this document.

17 MR. KOUMJIAN: You're saying the Court does not see the probative

18 value of a document because it's difficult to read?

19 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: I just learned from the registry that it's in

20 part not readable.

21 MR. KOUMJIAN: Well, apparently it was readable enough that

22 someone was able to translate. I can see that it's difficult to read

23 especially reading out loud. But to do an official translation, it has

24 been done already, and I think every word is probably legible. Just

25 looking at it myself, I can see it's difficult, but I don't see any word

Page 4431

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12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and

13 English transcripts.

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Page 4432

1 that's completely illegible. We don't seize documents and can't request

2 from the authorities that we seize them from better copies. Sometimes we

3 get the copy that we find on the location.

4 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: My underlying idea was that the translator had

5 probably another document as the basis. But --

6 MR. KOUMJIAN: They would -- the translator would have the same

7 document that's available here..

8 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: So then please, let's try and find out what is

9 readable for a B/C/S native speaker. Would you please proceed and try. I

10 can't admit that it's read in English because in English, it has no value

11 if we don't have the basic in B/C/S.

12 MR. KOUMJIAN: I really want to go back to Mr. Lukic's point

13 although it may relate to what Your Honour just said. We already have for

14 the last document where there was apparently one word mistranslated

15 "local" for "regional." We have the official translation, do we all

16 agree that when they are -- which is done by CLSS obviously having a lot

17 more time to reflect upon it and check it when it's done written than it

18 is by the booths simultaneous, do we all agree that the written document

19 is the official translation?

20 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: As for the English language, no doubt.

21 So please, I'm sorry, no better document is available. Could you

22 please try to read out that what you can read, but only what you yourself

23 regard as responsible.

24 THE INTERPRETER OF THE REGISTRAR: "Republika Srpska, Prijedor

25 Municipality, municipal secretariat for economy and public services,

Page 4433

1 Prijedor --"

2 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: May I ask for a short break.

3 MR. KOUMJIAN: Ms. Sutherland informs me, and I trust her because

4 she is more knowledgeable about these things than me, there's a chance

5 that the copy that the evidence unit has would be in a different kind of

6 paper. It's possible if we get the document that the evidence unit has

7 that it might be a little easier to read. Can we skip this and go on to

8 the next document and try to obtain that.

9 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: We are coming closer to the best copy available,

10 or the best available original, as it was said yesterday. And therefore,

11 we should proceed now immediately with Document 64. And having on the

12 record that we still expect another copy of 63. So it's now 64 in the

13 B/C/S version.

14 THE INTERPRETER OF THE REGISTRAR: "Serbian Republic of Bosnia and

15 Herzegovina, Autonomous Region of Krajina, Municipality of Prijedor,

16 Crisis Staff. At its meeting held on the 2nd of June, 1992, the Crisis

17 Staff of the Prijedor Municipality adopted the following decision: On the

18 release of imprisoned persons: Article 1: All Serbs who have been

19 imprisoned by mistake are hereby released from further imprisonment.

20 Article 2: All soldiers and military personnel who have been imprisoned

21 by mistake while actually on leave, with the authorisation of the

22 appropriate military authorities, are hereby released from further

23 imprisonment. Article 3: Relatives of soldiers and policemen who have

24 responded to the mobilisation callup and have participated in the war

25 shall be released from further imprisonment on the basis of lists compiled

Page 4434

1 by the military authorities and confirmed by the commander's signatures,

2 or on the basis of lists compiled by the police organs and confirmed by

3 the signature of the chief of the public security station. Article 4:

4 All persons older than 60, in respect of whom an investigation has

5 confirmed that they did not commit an offence, are hereby released from

6 further imprisonment. Article 5: Other prisoners, who may be found not

7 guilty in legal proceedings conducted by competent organs, shall be

8 released from further imprisonment. Article 6: The public security

9 station shall be in charge of the implementation of this decision. And

10 the chief of the public security station shall be deemed personally

11 responsible for it as he has the exclusive rights to sign orders, to

12 release any imprisoned person. Crisis Staff."

13 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you.

14 Then we find a signature, and it's still open what kind of

15 signature and whose name this is.

16 May we then turn to Document 65.

17 THE INTERPRETER OF THE REGISTRAR: "Serbian Republic of Bosnia and

18 Herzegovina, Autonomous Region of Krajina, Municipality of Prijedor,

19 Crisis Staff. Public announcement. The Crisis Staff of the Prijedor

20 Municipality calls all men aged between 18 and 45 who are not serving

21 either in the military or the police and who have not received war

22 assignments to report immediately to the public security station in

23 Prijedor for service in the reserve police force on security duties.

24 Failure to respond to this call will entail legal sanctions. This call is

25 addressed to the male population of the town of Prijedor proper."

Page 4435

1 In the bottom left corner we read: "Prijedor, the 2nd of June,

2 1992." On the right side, we read: "Secretariat for information."

3 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. And may we finally before the break

4 turn to Exhibit J4.

5 THE INTERPRETER OF THE REGISTRAR: In the upper right corner, we

6 read the following handwritten text: "In the area of Prijedor

7 Municipality, on the 3rd of June, 1992." And underneath, probably an

8 initial.

9 In the upper left corner, we read: "Serbian Republic of Bosnia

10 and Herzegovina, Autonomous Region of Krajina, Prijedor Municipality,

11 Crisis Staff. Number 02-111-126/92. Date, 3rd of June, 1992."

12 "At its meeting held on the 3rd of June, 1992, the Crisis Staff of

13 the Prijedor Municipality issued the following authorisation: Nebojsa

14 Barovic, an engineer and Dragomir Jeftic, also an engineer, are hereby

15 authorised to inquire into the possibility of using your diesel generators

16 for the needs of the Crisis Staff of Prijedor Municipality. The

17 above-named are required to establish the working order, number, and

18 possibility of using diesel generators in conditions of the wartime

19 economy."

20 In the bottom left corner, we read the following: "To: Number 1,

21 addressees; number 2, A/A." In the right bottom corner: "President."

22 Underneath we read "Milomir Stakic." There is a signature and a stamp.

23 Also, at the bottom of the page, we read handwritten text, the

24 first word is illegible. It is followed by "Stakic" and underneath,

25 "Crisis Staff."

Page 4436

1 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. We all are aware of the problematic

2 of this document. And we shall have a break now until 3.15.

3 --- Recess taken at 2.54 p.m.

4 --- On resuming at 3.19 p.m.

5 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Please be seated. Before we continue, just for

6 clarification, the understanding is that the next witnesses will appear in

7 the following order: 65 ter number 45 for tomorrow and the following

8 days. Right?

9 MR. KOUMJIAN: Yes. We anticipate 45 would take about three days

10 total.

11 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Total.

12 MR. KOUMJIAN: That's what Ms. Korner told me. She also has a

13 request for the Court, given her conflicts with the other case. She is

14 calling the next witness, and she was asking if there's any possibility

15 that Monday, this case could be heard in the morning as opposed to the

16 afternoon, just Monday of next week, to finish the witness.

17 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: No. This is indeed, due to already fixed plans,

18 impossible. We all should plan 14 days in advance, and we should be able

19 to rely on this schedule. So therefore, it's unfortunately not possible.

20 MR. KOUMJIAN: There's a delay in the other case that wasn't

21 anticipated, as often happens.

22 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Yes. But to come back to this witness, I'm

23 aware we have numerous exhibits, inter alia one transcript, and I would

24 appreciate if there are any transcripts in the future, that they could be

25 provided by the parties in both English and French. And then I see on the

Page 4437

1 list the next would be number 43. Is this correct? Because in the past,

2 I had the impression that here would be the first problems as regards

3 recognition or identification or whatever.

4 MR. KOUMJIAN: I don't have the ter numbers in front of me, but

5 that's not an issue with the next witness, not the next witness or the one

6 following. It's not an issue. It should be -- the one following actually

7 is not an identification witness.

8 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: And then I was surprised to see the Witness 57

9 announced for end of June already now on the list as number 3.

10 MR. KOUMJIAN: By the time we get there, that's June -- I think we

11 were anticipating --

12 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: I just wanted to be sure that we stick to the

13 plan we have available right now. 45, 43, and 57. At least the next

14 three should be prepared.

15 MR. KOUMJIAN: That's correct.

16 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: We rely on that. And the understanding was that

17 the witness for today will only come in today, and therefore no proofing

18 notes are available yet.

19 MR. KOUMJIAN: Well, there's a -- we just got it. We just have

20 actually -- we had the witness actually sign -- in this case we took

21 another statement, which has just come in over the break. And that will

22 be distributed now or at the end, 4.00. It was just signed this

23 afternoon.

24 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: If it could be distributed immediately, it would

25 be great. Could the usher please distribute this.

Page 4438

1 MR. KOUMJIAN: Also, Exhibit 63, the actual item seized has been

2 obtained from the evidence unit. And I could hand that to the usher to

3 hand to the Court. It's probably a slightly better copy.

4 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: May it be presented first to the Defence,

5 please.

6 Can we please have the registration number of this document

7 printed in red by the registry.

8 THE REGISTRAR: This document is numbered P0006928.

9 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: And apparently, the copy we have before us is a

10 copy of this document that shall be read out now.

11 THE INTERPRETER OF THE REGISTRAR: "Republika Srpska, Prijedor

12 Municipality, municipal secretariat for the economy and public services,

13 Prijedor." Underneath, "number, date." And then as follows: "To the

14 executive committee, Prijedor. Subject: Autotransport's, [bus company],

15 request for reimbursement of the cost of using buses for the needs of the

16 Crisis Staff in July 1992.

17 "Prijedor ATP [Bus company] Has sent an invoice for reimbursement

18 of the cost of using buses for the needs of the Crisis Staff in July 1992.

19 They enclosed records on the transport provided for the needs of the army,

20 the Crisis Staff, and the police. According to the records enclosed, 31

21 buss which covered 1.300 kilometres, were used for the needs of the Crisis

22 Staff. The price of 1 kilometre is 210 Dinars. Consequently, the sum owed

23 for July amounts to 273.000 Dinars [1.300 kilometre times 210 Dinars

24 equals 273.000] or 275.000.

25 "Enclosed are the records received on the use of Autotransport

Page 4439

1 buses in July. On behalf of the secretariat, we suggest taking the

2 following conclusion:

3 "One, authorisation is hereby granted to pay Autotransport

4 Prijedor the amount of 273.000 Dinars."

5 Below, in the brackets, 273.000 Dinars.

6 "Two, obtain the funds through rebalancing the budget for 1992,

7 enter this sum" -- illegible -- two words illegible --"as a debit for the

8 transportation." Actually, it reads "enter this sum as a debit for the

9 transfer of refugees and pay it into the account of ATP Prijedor."

10 "Three, the budget and finance department of the Prijedor

11 secretariat for economy and public services shall be responsible for the

12 implementation of this decision."

13 Below: "To: 1, ATP, Autotransport; 2, secretariat for the

14 economy; 3, SDK public auditing service; 4, records; 5, files."

15 Lower right corner: "Municipal secretariat for the economy and

16 public services. Department for the budget and finance."

17 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. We are all aware that there are no

18 attachments as mentioned in the document itself.

19 May we now turn to the next following document, which would be 67.

20 THE INTERPRETER OF THE REGISTRAR: Upper left corner, "Number 2,

21 official gazette." Upper right corner, page number, illegible. Below:

22 "Number 4."

23 "At its meeting held on the 8th of May, 1992, the Crisis Staff of

24 the Autonomous Region of Krajina reached the following conclusions:

25 "1, presidents of the National Defence Councils are to supply

Page 4440

1 detailed information to the war staff of the Autonomous Region of Krajina

2 about mobilisation in their municipalities.

3 "2, the distribution of oil products and consumer goods is to be

4 placed under the control of the National Defence Councils.

5 "3, presidents of the National Defence Councils are to report to

6 the war staff of the Autonomous Region of Krajina about any actions they

7 may have taken in order to disarm paramilitary units and individuals

8 possessing illegal weapons and ammunition. The strictest of sanctions

9 will be imposed on those who refuse to return weapons.

10 "4, in the future, the Krajina mass media are to operate according

11 to the wartime schedules, that is, they must promptly and completely

12 inform all citizens about all orders and decisions of the war staff of the

13 Autonomous Region of Krajina. At one-hour intervals, the Banja Luka Radio

14 is to broadcast announcements to the citizens to return weapons so that

15 peace can be best maintained in the area.

16 "5, it is hereby requested that the military territorial

17 authorities of the JNA start activities immediately in order to save the

18 Serbian people in the areas along the most threatened front lines,

19 Bosanski Brod, Derventa, and" -- word illegible -- "Glamoc, Bosansko

20 Grahovo from genocide.

21 "6, it is hereby requested that the assembly of the Serbian

22 Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina convene an urgent session in order to

23 define all activities concerning the defence of the Serbian people in

24 these parts.

25 "7, in the future tickets for flights to Belgrade may not be sold

Page 4441

1 without the approval of the National Defence Councils. The work of the

2 Atlas and Putnik travel agencies is to be placed under the control of the

3 war staff of the Autonomous Region of Krajina.

4 "8, the refugees who have come from western Slavonija, eastern

5 Slavonija, western Sirmium, the Serbian Republic of Krajina, Glamoc,

6 Kupres, Bosansko Grahovo, and Doboj, are to return to their homes at once

7 because the above-mentioned areas have been liberated from the

8 Croat-Muslim paramilitary units.

9 "The refugees from Bosanski Brod, Derventa, Modrica, Bosanska

10 Krupa, Bosanski Samac who are fit for combat must return to their

11 municipalities within five days and help their fellow citizens in the

12 fight against the enemy. In the event that the above-mentioned persons do

13 not return to their homes, they shall be refused hospitality in Banja

14 Luka, and throughout the Autonomous Region of Krajina. Ignoring these

15 calls also implies that the above-mentioned persons shall be prohibited

16 from returning to their homes and that all their moveable and immoveable

17 property shall be confiscated.

18 "9, all war plans in Krajina enterprises must be analysed and

19 approved by the National Defence Council of the relevant municipality or

20 the war staff of the Autonomous Region of Krajina. All management posts

21 in enterprises must be held by persons absolutely loyal to the Serbian

22 Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

23 "10, the decision on the takeover of DD Trgopetrol by the

24 Krajinapetrol public company is hereby adopted.

25 "11, the president of the assembly of the Autonomous Region of

Page 4442

1 Krajina and the president of the executive council of the Autonomous

2 Region of Krajina are obliged to resolve immediately the problem of

3 supplying food to the Serbian municipality of Bosanski Brod.

4 "12, Bozo Novakovic, employee of the Banja Luka Security Services

5 Centre is entrusted with the task" -- word illegible -- "communications

6 system in the area of the Autonomous Region of Krajina.

7 "13, professor Dragoljub Mirjanic is hereby appointed a new member

8 of the war staff of the Autonomous Region of Krajina, replaced Rajko

9 Kuzmanovic.

10 Number 03-297/92. Date 8 May, 1992. Banja Luka.

11 Lower right corner: "President of the Crisis Staff, Radislav

12 Brdjanin, S.R." Below --

13 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: It is tendered only number 4. And the

14 following, 5, in B/C/S is not admitted into evidence.

15 Therefore, we turn immediately to Document S6B.

16 Just for clarification, in addition to the English translation, we

17 have available on the headline it was, I think, correctly interpreted that

18 over the line, one can read "number 2," and "official gazette" on Document

19 67.

20 Now, 68, please. 68B in B/C/S.

21 THE INTERPRETER OF THE REGISTRAR: "Serbian Republic of Bosnia and

22 Herzegovina, Autonomous Region of Krajina, Municipality of Prijedor,

23 Crisis Staff. Number, 02-111-135/92. Date: The 5th of June, 1992."

24 Correction, the 5th of June, 1992.

25 "Pursuant to Article 7 of the decision on the organisation and

Page 4443

1 activities of the Prijedor Municipality Crisis Staff at the session held

2 on the 5th of June, 1992, the Prijedor Municipality Crisis Staff issued

3 the following order:

4 "1, an order is hereby issued to the military police organs and

5 the organs of the Prijedor SDB, State Security Service, to take possession

6 of all illegally seized and appropriated property from the individuals who

7 have illegally seized and appropriated it, and to deposit the property in

8 question in set places in compliance with prior orders.

9 "2, the competent organs of the military police and Prijedor SDB

10 shall be immediately inform the Prijedor Municipality Crisis Staff of all

11 steps that were undertaken.

12 "3, the severest measures shall be taken by the Prijedor

13 Municipality Crisis Staff against competent organs and individuals who

14 fail to comply with this order.

15 "4, this order shall enter into effect on the day of issue, and

16 the Prijedor Municipality Crisis Staff shall see to it that it is

17 executed."

18 Lower left corner: "To be delivered: One, army command, military

19 police; two, Prijedor public security station; three, files."

20 Lower right corner: "President, Dr. Milomir Stakic." A signature

21 and a stamp.

22 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you.

23 S69B.

24 THE REGISTRAR: "Serbian Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina,

25 Autonomous Region of Krajina, Municipality o Prijedor, Crisis Staff.

Page 4444

1 Reference number 2-111-1400292. Date, the 6th of June, 1992."

2 "Pursuant to Article 7 of the decision on the organisation and

3 activities of the Prijedor Municipality Crisis Staff, at the session held

4 on the 6th of June, 1992, regarding the supply of oil and oil products,

5 the Prijedor Municipality Crisis Staff issued the following order:

6 "1, supplies for the troops shall be provided in the Zarko

7 Zgonjanin barracks pursuant to the order issued by the commander.

8 "2, supplies for the police, ambulance, fire brigade, and Crisis

9 Staff vehicles shall be provided at the gas station on the Banja Luka

10 road. Orders for obtaining fuel are issued by: For police vehicles,

11 chief of public security station; for ambulance vehicles, director of the

12 medical centre; for fire brigade vehicles, commander of the fire brigade

13 unit; for Crisis Staff vehicles, secretary of the municipal secretariat

14 for the economy.

15 "3, this order shall enter into effect on the day of issue, and

16 those listed in items 1 and 2 will be responsible for its implementation."

17 Below, lower left corner: "To be delivered to: One, all those

18 listed in items 1 and 2; two, files."

19 Lower right corner: "President of the Crisis Staff, Dr. Milomir

20 Stakic." Signed and stamped.

21 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. It follows immediately, 70B.

22 THE INTERPRETER OF THE REGISTRAR: "Upper right corner,

23 handwritten: First word illegible. "1, Jankovic, D.; and 2, Prpos D.

24 "Serbian Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Krajina autonomous

25 region, Prijedor municipality, Crisis Staff."

Page 4445

1 "Number, 02-111-145/92. Date, 6th of June, 1992."

2 "Pursuant to Article 7 of the decision on the organisation and

3 work of the Prijedor Municipality Crisis Staff, discussing at its meeting

4 of the 6th of June, 1992, the security situation in connection with other

5 parts of town, the Crisis Staff issued the following conclusion: "1, the

6 measures for the blockade of the town will remain valid.

7 "2, permission is given to the train Prijedor/Banja Luka to start

8 commuting under the condition that the journey be made according to rules

9 issued by the public security station in Prijedor."

10 Again, number 2, "This conclusion shall enter into force on the

11 day of its adoption.

12 Lower left corner: "To: One, public security station; two,

13 Prijedor railway station; three, files."

14 Lower right corner, "Crisis Staff president, Dr. - name

15 illegible - Stakic." Handwritten signature and stamp. Below,

16 handwritten: "Delivered, the 9th of June, 1992."

17 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. S71B.

18 THE REGISTRAR: "Serbian Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina,

19 Autonomous Region of Krajina, Municipality of Prijedor, Crisis Staff.

20 Reference number 02-111-145/92. Date: The 6th of June, 1992.

21 "Pursuant to Article 7 of the decision on the organisation and work

22 of the Prijedor Municipality Crisis Staff, discussing at its meeting of

23 the 6th of June, 1992, the security situation in Prijedor hospital issued

24 the following conclusion: The chief of the public security station Simo

25 Drljaca and Slobodan Kuruzovic coordinates security of the Prijedor

Page 4446

1 hospital which they will inform the Crisis Staff of at the next meeting.

2 "2, this order shall enter into effect on the day of its

3 issuance."

4 Lower left corner: "Copies to: One, public security station,

5 Simo Drljaca; two, Slobodan Kuruzovic; cashier, Zarko Zgonjanin; three,

6 files."

7 Lower right corner: "President of the Crisis Staff, Dr. Milomir

8 Stakic." Signed and stamp.

9 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: And finally for today, S73B.

10 THE REGISTRAR: Upper right corner, first word illegible: "1,

11 Jankovic, D." Encircled "13X". "2, Prpos, D." "3, all station

12 commanders."

13 "Serbian Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Autonomous Region of

14 Krajina, Prijedor Municipality Crisis Staff. Number 02-111-145-1/92.

15 Date: 6th of June, 1992.

16 "Pursuant to Article 7 of the decision on the organisation and

17 work of the Prijedor Municipality Crisis Staff, with regard to the

18 security of citizens in the Pecani neighbourhood and other parts of town,

19 the Prijedor Municipality Crisis Staff at its session held on the 6th of

20 June, 1993, issued the following order:

21 "1, members of the public security station shall check not only

22 the Pecani neighbourhood but also other parts of the town and prevent

23 people moving in without authorisation and finding accommodation with

24 relatives and friends. All those who have moved in to date must return to

25 their place of residence immediate.

Page 4447

1 "2, presidents of the Tenants' Associations are charged with

2 drawing up lists of empty flats, that is, flats belonging to families that

3 have moved out and submitting them to the municipal Crisis Staff.

4 "3, this order enters into force on the day of its issue."

5 Lower left corner: "To: One, public security station; two,

6 information secretariat; three, files."

7 Lower right corner: "President of the Crisis Staff, Dr. Milomir

8 Stakic." Signed and stamped.

9 And below, handwritten: "Delivered on the 9th of June, 1992.

10 13X."

11 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you very much for your assistance. Let's

12 call it a day and hear the next witness tomorrow, 9.00.

13 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at

14 3.58 p.m., to be reconvened on

15 Wednesday, the 12th day of June, 2002,

16 at 9.00 a.m.

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