1 Thursday, 5 September 2002
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.39 a.m.
5 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Please be seated. Good morning, everybody.
6 I have to inform the parties that Judge Fassi Fihri unfortunately
7 is ill in hospital today and, therefore, unable to attend this hearing.
8 The remaining Judges conferred under Rule 15 bis and came to the
9 conclusion that it's in the interest of justice to continue sitting in
10 this part-heard case for a period of not more than three days.
11 Are there any observations to this by the parties?
12 MR. LUKIC: We don't have any objections, Your Honour. We are
13 ready to proceed.
14 MS. KORNER: Nor do we, Your Honour.
15 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. In the light of this, I think we
16 have to take into account to use -- make use of these three days in the
17 best possible way. And from my point of view, that means that we can hear
18 the witnesses from abroad today and, worst-case thinking, in case - and we
19 don't hope that it will be the case - Judge Fassi Fihri is not available
20 for next week, that the witnesses coming from abroad can be heard next
21 week. So therefore, if we could know what is envisaged now actually for
22 next week, what are the upcoming witnesses from abroad?
23 MR. KOUMJIAN: Your Honour, next week, we actually did not have a
24 witness for Monday, other than -- there still are two reports outstanding.
25 We are hoping to simply submit those reports if they are accepted by the
1 Court and the Defence. One of them should be ready today. However, it
2 uses the 65 ter numbers, and we are going to give it to the Court and the
3 Defence today, but we may try to put in the S numbers and give you a
4 supplemental version of that later. That's the document analysis or the
5 linguistic report. The demographic report, I was promised Monday at the
6 latest. We're checking on where that is. But we do have a witness from
7 abroad on Tuesday, and we think it's a two-day witness. It's Witness
8 Number 33.
9 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Yes. So therefore, we discussed it beforehand.
10 We think it's appropriate to hear today the witness, and then continue
11 next Tuesday with the next witness for the remaining two days under Rule
12 15 bis. And in the light of this, we should avoid anything unnecessary to
13 deal with today. And therefore my question goes to the Office of the
14 Prosecutor: When will the witness of today be available in order that we
15 can proceed and start with the hearing of this witness immediately, and
16 then conclude this witness today, even though it might be later than 4.00?
17 MR. KOUMJIAN: I know Ms. Sutherland was meeting with the witness
18 just this morning, so we anticipated 11.00. She will be available and
19 ready to testify. If we could try to contact her, I doubt we could move
20 it up much. It's possible we could move it a very little. And there are
21 several statements we discovered recently to go over with her.
22 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: And those statements, can they be distributed or
23 are they already distributed?
24 MR. KOUMJIAN: Yes.
25 MR. LUKIC: Yes, Your Honour.
1 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. So then I think it's advisable also
2 in the light that we have to take care of the interests of the
3 interpreters, that we start immediately when we have the green light of
4 the OTP with the witness. And I think we should all stay tuned and start
5 then when we have heard that we can begin with this witness and don't do
6 anything else. And please, our apologies to Mr. Sebire that we, for
7 reasons he will hopefully understand, don't want to hear him today, that
8 we really concentrate on the witness.
9 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, two things, then: Of course, we
10 understand the problems. Mr. Sebire was due to go on a fact-finding
11 mission to do with the other case on Sunday. If Your Honours would want
12 to hear him next week, do I understand? I'm not saying it couldn't be
13 prevented. It can be.
14 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: We shouldn't try to schedule anything else for
15 next week than to hear the witness from abroad. As I mentioned
16 beforehand, in case Judge Fassi Fihri wouldn't be available.
17 MS. KORNER: Right. Then, Your Honour --
18 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Then we can combine this, as you may know, there
19 were some remaining questions from the cross-examination by the Defence,
20 and then it can be combined with the questions by the Judges, and at the
21 same time with the hopefully upcoming new table on the witnesses mentioned
22 in the annex to the fourth amended indictment. And this can be done
23 probably the week after that.
24 MS. KORNER: Yes, Your Honour. May I say, the other witness that
25 was intended to call next week was Mr. Brown. But from what you're
1 saying, Your Honours, it may not be possible to call him either next week.
2 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Right.
3 MS. KORNER: Right. Simply this, it's for my benefit, I was
4 hoping to address all Your Honours this morning on a question of some of
5 the matters you raised on Monday. I don't know whether Your Honours would
6 consider it appropriate in the absence of Judge Fassi Fihri or not.
7 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: I think it would be better, and assist the
8 Chamber if we could do it in the presence of Judge Fassi Fihri, and that
9 we indeed continue this way, that we adjourn now and stay tuned. And
10 please let us know immediately when the witness is ready for hearing.
11 MS. KORNER: May I just ask one thing, and this does have an
12 effect. Your Honours, when I heard the transcript, indeed I was watching
13 what Your Honour said about the witnesses the Chamber intended to call,
14 there was a mention of the bishop of Banja Luka, but I hadn't worked out
15 at the end whether Your Honours were intending to call him.
16 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: No. Quite clear. Not at this time.
17 MS. KORNER: All right.
18 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Times may change. We mentioned the name in the
19 hearing yesterday, and the parties will receive the invitation letter
20 filed in due course.
21 MS. KORNER: Yes, thank you. Your Honour.
22 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: The trial stays adjourned we know from the OTP
23 that the witness is ready for being heard. Thank you.
24 MR. KOUMJIAN: Your Honour, we could say 11.00 unless notified
25 sooner because definitely we'll be ready at 11.00 but we'll notify you if
1 she's available sooner.
2 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you for this.
3 --- Break taken at 9.49 a.m.
4 --- On resuming at 11.10 a.m.
5 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Please be seated. We are in closed session.
6 [Closed session]
12 Pages 7528 to 7555 – redacted – closed session.
7 [Open session]
8 MR. KOUMJIAN: Witness Number 16, we had requested or -- I don't
9 think we formally requested, we are requesting a pseudonym for that
10 witness. It's a 92 bis witness. That's the only protective measure.
11 Obviously the Defence has the name. Mr. Lukic, is there an objection to
12 Witness Number 16 --
13 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Could we please refrain from discussing any
14 additional matters save hearing the witness. Thank you.
15 MR. KOUMJIAN: Can we go to closed session.
16 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Yes. Can we please go to closed session.
17 [Closed session]
12 Pages 7557 to 7642 – redacted – closed session.
1 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned
2 at 7.00 p.m.