1 Wednesday, 9 December 2009
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused Simatovic entered court]
4 [The accused Stanisic appeared via videolink]
5 --- Upon commencing at 2.24 p.m.
6 JUDGE ORIE: Good afternoon to everyone. Madam Registrar, would
7 you please call the case.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honours. This is case
9 IT-03-69-T, the Prosecutor versus Jovica Stanisic, and Franko Simatovic.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar.
11 The Chamber received the form non-attendance in court which
12 Mr. Stanisic had indicated that he would follow the proceedings through
13 videolink. And yesterday we had a problem with the audio. I do
14 understand that Mr. Stanisic will not be able to hear the original speech
15 of the witness, everything that was said in B/C/S, but that he does
16 receive the distorted version, which would enable him, at least, to
17 follow what was said, although not without the distortion.
18 I take it that it is most important that the witness is able to
19 follow what is said and that even if he would receive only the distorted
20 version that he will be able to follow the proceedings, although it's
21 certainly not ideal. The Chamber is aware of that.
22 Mr. Knoops, the Chamber suggests that we proceed in this way.
23 MR. KNOOPS: We have no objection, Your Honour. Thank you.
24 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you.
25 Mr. Stanisic, you will have followed what I said, that is that
1 you can hear the witness but that you're unable to hear his undistorted
2 voice. If at any moment you think that you're not able to follow what
3 the witness says, although you receive his voice with distortion, would
4 you please immediately give notice to Mr. Knoops that he can further
5 address the matter. Is that clear to you?
6 THE ACCUSED STANISIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.
7 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you. Then we turn into private session again.
8 [Private session]
11 Pages 2461-2538 redacted. Private session.
7 [Open session]
8 THE REGISTRAR: We're in open session, Your Honours.
9 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar.
10 Mr. Groome.
11 MR. GROOME: Your Honour, Ms. Friedman has more information about
12 P107, what has been marked for identification earlier today as P107
13 before --
14 JUDGE ORIE: It's a very technical matter. Should we not
15 first -- but of course I'm looking at the Stanisic Defence. If we are
16 dealing with technical matters only, that Mr. Stanisic, it might be
17 boring for him even, that no matter of substance will be further
18 discussed so that he feels free to leave the video room.
19 Mr. Groome, please proceed.
20 MR. GROOME: Your Honour, before she does that, I have a brief
21 intervention. In the event that the Appeals Chamber may be called upon
22 in the future to evaluate the functionality of the videolink it may be
23 important to note on the record whether the previously reported problems
24 with the phone line between the video room and this courtroom have in
25 fact been resolved. I have observed Mr. Stanisic use the phone on
1 several occasions today, and can I ask the Stanisic Defence to confirm
2 that Mr. Stanisic is able to readily communicate with them and vice
4 JUDGE ORIE: Well, Mr. Jordash can't answer the question because
5 he's communicating with Mr. Stanisic at this very moment, Mr. Groome, so
6 we have to wait for a second.
7 MR. GROOME: Perhaps that's acknowledgement enough, Your Honour.
8 MR. JORDASH: Mr. Stanisic is happy for the proceedings to
9 continue. He's going to leave, with Your Honours' leave.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, that's fine with us.
11 The Stanisic Defence was invited to confirm that the telephone
12 communication function -- I said you couldn't answer because you were
13 communicating with Mr. Stanisic, which Mr. Groome considered to be an
14 affirmation. I take it that you agree with that.
15 MR. JORDASH: Completely, Your Honour, yes.
16 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you. Any other procedural matter at this
17 moment? If not -- Ms. Friedman. Yes, you would like to inform the
18 Chamber about the way you obtain the document.
19 MS. FRIEDMAN: Yes. Your Honours, the document was received on
20 the 1st of March, 2001, pursuant to an RFA. Our information is that the
21 Croatian authorities in turn recovered the document from Knin after
22 Operation Storm. It was received in response to a request for assistance
23 in March 2001. We're in the process of locating the precise request for
24 assistance but can make an affirmative representation that we received it
25 from Croatian authorities and that it was a document within the official
1 state archives in Zagreb
2 tomorrow or at the next court hearing day if the Chamber requires.
3 JUDGE ORIE: Well, I think most important, of course, the Chamber
4 has the authority under Rule 89(E)to ask for verification, but it seems
5 that it's at this moment -- well, the Defence who is seeking whether or
6 not they will invite the Chamber to seek further authentication of this
7 document. So if you will disclose that to the Defence and then we'll
8 hear further from -- either from you or from the Defence.
9 Finally, Mr. Jordash, I note -- yes, Ms. Friedman?
10 MS. FRIEDMAN: One final matter.
11 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
12 MS. FRIEDMAN: In relation to the exhibits admitted today, they
13 were all admitted I believe not under seal, publicly, however, D7 is the
14 document that was the --
15 JUDGE ORIE: We are in open session at this moment.
16 MS. FRIEDMAN: Yes.
17 JUDGE ORIE: So I don't know what you are going to say but ...
18 MS. FRIEDMAN: Yes, I'm aware. It should be okay.
19 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, okay. Please proceed.
20 MS. FRIEDMAN: D7 is information of the Croatian police
21 authorities compiled on the basis of a number of witness interviews and
22 other documents, and in that statement -- perhaps we could -- we could
23 call it up and not have it broadcast or I could describe it.
24 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Until now -- until now the admission has not
25 been not under seal, which may -- usually if any document is -- is
1 admitted in private session it's -- I would say out of an abundance of
2 caution we should clearly indicate whether it's public or not. If we
3 would discuss any such a document, there is a risk that we would
4 invalidate the protective measures which are in place at this moment.
5 We don't have, not to discuss about it I think in court, I would
6 suggest that provisionally all the documents admitted in private session
7 are under seal and that you discuss with the Defence whether there are
8 any documents which without in any way making the protective measures
9 ineffective could become public.
10 Let's start to keep on the safe side.
11 Madam Registrar, all documents in relation to Witness JF-006 are
12 admitted under seal, and we'll hear further from the parties.
13 Any other procedural matter?
14 MR. JORDASH: Your Honours, would it be possible just to raise
15 very quickly the issue of Dr. Eekhof, the reason being is that I think we
16 can deal with it in two minutes, and it will save the parties an hour or
17 two of drafting a response.
18 JUDGE ORIE: I'm --
19 [Trial Chamber confers]
20 JUDGE ORIE: The Chamber was informed that the Registry is
21 considering whether or not to file a submission under Rule 33(B) of the
22 Rules. Under those circumstances, the Chamber is hesitant to -- to find
23 a final solution within the next two minutes.
24 MR. JORDASH: May I though indicate that the parties' agreed
25 position in relation to contacting Dr. Eekhof and then leave it with Your
1 Honours for --
2 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. That's now on the record and if you say we'd
3 rather first wait whether or not any submission under Rule 33(B) will be
4 received and would you allow us at this moment to refrain from written
5 submission, then I'll briefly consider that with my colleagues.
6 MR. JORDASH: Thank you.
7 [Trial Chamber confers]
8 JUDGE ORIE: The Chamber would not mind if the parties would
9 temporarily refrain from making written submissions, but first the
10 Chamber would like to see whether it will receive any submission by the
11 Registrar and whether that would call for further submissions by the
12 parties. And even if there is an agreement among the parties in the
13 specific circumstances, that might not be the last word for the Chamber,
14 but as far as matters stand now, you don't have to sit at your desk at
15 this very moment, Mr. Jordash, starting writing.
16 MR. JORDASH: Thank you.
17 JUDGE ORIE: Since then you have some additional time left, if I
18 don't know how to pronounce names, I often ask CLSS for comment. Since
19 you are consistently call your client Mr. Stanisic, it's not entirely
20 clear to me why every name ending with i-c, with the diacritic is
21 pronounced consistently by you as "ik" instead of "ic."
22 MR. JORDASH: There's very few answers to my appalling
23 pronunciation, I'm afraid.
24 JUDGE ORIE: I'm still quite confident, Mr. Jordash, that with
25 some exercise that you'll be able to pronounce all these names ending at
1 "ic" to say "ic." If feels far more pleasant for persons if their name
2 is at least on the obvious parts pronounced correctly. So therefore I
3 encourage you to see whether you will achieve that, and I'm really
4 confident that you could.
5 We adjourn, and we will resume Monday the 14th of December in
6 Courtroom III
7 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 7.02 p.m.
8 to be reconvened on Monday, the 14th day
9 of December, 2009, at 2.15 p.m.