1 Wednesday, 24 November 2010
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 2.19 p.m.
5 JUDGE ORIE: Good afternoon to everyone in and around this
6 courtroom. Mr. Registrar, would you please call the case.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honours. Good afternoon to
8 everyone in and around the courtroom. This is case number IT-03-69-T.
9 The Prosecutor versus Jovica Stanisic and Franko Simatovic. Thank you.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Mr. Registrar. Before we move into
11 closed session, I have a few procedural matters. The Stanisic Defence
12 has requested leave to reply regarding the admission of D122 and D123.
13 We have not received any response yet, is there any objection to granting
14 such leave?
15 MR. GROOME: No, Your Honour.
16 JUDGE ORIE: Leave is hereby granted, Mr. Jordash.
17 Yesterday, Mr. Jordash, you said there were still some disclosure
18 issues in relation to the -- to information which might be relevant for
19 your submissions on the Theunens report and that's the reason why we did
20 not set a dead-line at that moment. Any news in that respect?
21 MR. JORDASH: I sent an e-mail this morning to the Prosecution.
22 I'm not aware as to whether one has been sent back.
23 MR. GROOME: Your Honour, I have Mr. Weber on stand by to deal
24 with that matter, perhaps if the Chamber wishes we can have him come at
25 the beginning of the next session or one of the sessions today to
1 address --
2 JUDGE ORIE: Therefore the disclosure matter has not been
4 MR. GROOME: Has not been resolved, Your Honour.
5 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Jordash, wouldn't it be the best to find a
6 moment today to briefly deal with the matter.
7 MR. JORDASH: Your Honour, I think a decision from Your Honours
8 would progress the matter.
9 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, but then of course we would have to know
10 exactly what it is.
11 MR. JORDASH: Indeed.
12 JUDGE ORIE: How much time would you need to introduce the
13 matter. We are talking about disclosure at this point.
14 MR. JORDASH: Your Honour, I could give Your Honours the e-mail.
15 I would need to add nothing more than one or two minutes.
16 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, perhaps you send the e-mail to the Chamber
17 staff we'll read it then we are aware he was I'll summarily put it on the
18 record what the issue is then we'll ask Mr. Weber to come and address the
19 matter after you've had two minutes, two and a half if you need it.
20 MR. JORDASH: Thank you.
21 JUDGE ORIE: Okay. We'll see whether we find time for that.
22 Yesterday the Chamber asked whether there was any objection
23 against pre-assignment of Exhibit numbers for the Nielsen report.
24 Meanwhile the Stanisic and the Simatovic Defence have informed the
25 Chamber by an e-mail exchange that they do not object to the
1 pre-assignment of the Exhibit numbers to the documents referenced in the
2 Nielsen report. Therefore, the request from the Prosecution that numbers
3 would be preassigned is granted. Mr. Registrar, you are hereby
4 instructed to preassign numbers and to file them in a memo.
5 As far as the testimony of Mr. Nielsen is concerned in view of
6 the estimates given by the parties, that is Prosecution six hours,
7 Stanisic Defence eight to ten hours and Simatovic Defence also ten hours
8 it's inevitable that we would hear that testimony in over two weeks. At
9 the same time, the parties are urged to see whether they can reduce the
10 number of hours they would need. It is a matter of being very focused
11 and very efficient in the examination. Mr. Groome.
12 MR. GROOME: Your Honour, given that it seems unlikely that we
13 would get to the next witness JF-029 if I could ask the Chamber to give
14 that some consideration and advise the Prosecution whether we wishes us
15 to have him travel to The Hague
16 evidence to the new year. I've also put a notice to the effect in the
17 weekly notification which is about to go out in a few minutes.
18 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, I do understand that. At the same time, we can
19 think about it as long as we want, the real issue is whether the parties
20 are able to perform the examination-in-chief and cross-examination in
21 less time than assessed now because then we might have some time
22 available. But as matters stand now, if I be optimistic and take the
23 Stanisic Defence for eight hours, that would be altogether 24 hours.
24 Now, effectively we have on a five-hour day, five hour and one quarter,
25 two breaks of each half an hour, that's four hours and a quarter of an
1 hour. If we deduce for procedural matters some 15 to 30 minutes on
2 average then it would mean that we have a little bit over three and a
3 half hours. If the parties would take as much time as there is now, then
4 even two weeks would not be enough and that is certainly not something
5 the Chamber would encourage. We also will carefully look, as always, to
6 the way in which the cross-examination is conducted. Yes.
7 MR. JORDASH: Could I, if it assists, we'll look again at the
8 report over the next two days and if we can inform Your Honours and the
9 Prosecution by Monday morning of an estimate, and hopefully a more
10 accurate one.
11 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. That would be appreciated. And again, the
12 Chamber sees that sometimes it's extremely helpful to know whether there
13 were three, four, or five chairs in the room, but sometimes it does not
14 really assist very much in making the determinations the Chamber has to
15 make. Let's try to get rid of trivial issues and let's try to focus on
16 what is really at stake.
17 Finally, last observation. That week where Mr. Nielsen will give
18 his evidence starting the 6th of December, in order to use our time as
19 good as we can, and also in view of the most recent report, perhaps still
20 to be discussed at a later stage, but at this moment indicating that
21 three days of sitting would be better than four days. And finally in
22 view of the fact that the both Defence teams have or the accused, it was
23 indicated that the accused would waive their right to be present for a
24 housekeeping session, the Chamber is exploring the possibility of having
25 a housekeeping session on the 10th of December, but we still have to --
1 it has not been decided. We are still exploring it.
2 I have no further procedural matters to be dealt with. We turn
3 into closed session.
4 [Closed session]
11 Pages 9426-9507 redacted. Closed session.
22 [Open session]
23 THE REGISTRAR: We are back in open session, Your Honours.
24 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Mr. Registrar.
25 We adjourn for the day and we resume tomorrow, Thursday, the 25th
1 of November, quarter past 2.00 in Courtroom II.
2 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 6.57 p.m.
3 to be reconvened on Thursday, the 25th day of
4 November, 2010, at 2.15 p.m.