1 Friday, 4 March 2005
2 [Status Conference]
3 [Open session]
4 [The accused entered court].
5 --- Upon commencing at 6.57 p.m.
6 JUDGE ORIE: To avoid whatever confusion, I'd like to clearly
7 indicate that although we are still hearing the same case, that we are not
8 hearing at this moment any more the motion filed by the Prosecution to
9 refer the case to Bosnia and Herzegovina under Rule 11 bis of the Rules of
10 Procedure and Evidence, but that we move now to a totally different
11 matter, which is a Status Conference in the case which is pending before
12 this Tribunal.
13 I see that the Prosecution has -- well, not completely changed its
14 representatives, but may I have the appearances.
15 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Yes, Your Honour. Good evening, Your Honour.
16 The Prosecution is represented in this Status Conference by my colleague,
17 Manoj Sachdeva, and my name is Hildegard Uertz-Retzlaff, and we
18 have our same case manager, Sebastian van Hooydonk.
19 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, thank you very much, Madam Uertz-Retzlaff.
20 Mr. Radovic, you are still here to represent Mr. Stankovic. As
21 you know, at a Status Conference we usually deal with matters such as
22 disclosure but that's not at this moment an issue any more, is it, Madam
24 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: No, Your Honour. We have actually complied
25 with all our disclosure obligation. Of course the Rule 68 disclosure is
1 ongoing and we are still doing searches and will turn over whatever comes
2 up. Otherwise, we are actually trial ready. We have made all our
3 submissions. We have recently filed our motion to suspend all
4 nonessential proceedings pending the transfer motion, and no decision has
5 been taken so far.
6 JUDGE ORIE: No decision has been taken on that until now.
7 Mr. Radovic, is there any issue in terms of disclosure of the
8 ongoing matter? Has the Defence responded to the motion to suspend
9 further activities?
10 MR. RADOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I know nothing about
11 this motion. I did not receive it. It is possible since communication
12 between the Registry and my office were disrupted because of bad weather,
13 it is quite possible that this motion was not sent to me. I would request
14 that this motion be sent to me, if possible, by e-mail, but in a way that
15 will not compromise the confidentiality.
16 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, it was filed already some time ago, Madam
17 Uertz-Retzlaff, if I'm not mistaken, it was some two or three weeks ago;
18 is that correct?
19 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: I am actually looking at the motion, but I
20 think it is something like two weeks ago.
21 JUDGE ORIE: That's what I remember. If there is such a problem
22 with the communication, perhaps, Mr. Radovic, you should look into that,
23 because one or two days' delay one could easily understand, but two weeks,
24 of course is a different matter. There might be the risk that you lose
25 the right to respond to whatever. But I mentioned it because I did not
1 remember to have seen any response to that last motion.
2 Is there anything you'd like to raise at this moment, Mr. Radovic,
3 in respect of the -- in respect of the present situation, apart of course
4 from the 11 bis issue that is pending and on which we have spent quite
5 some time today?
6 MR. RADOVIC: [Interpretation] At this point while the application
7 of the Prosecution under Rule 11 bis for the referral of Mr. Stankovic's
8 case for trial before Bosnia and Herzegovina courts, while that is still
9 pending we will not be making any submissions.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Then finally I'd like to inquire into the personal
11 situation of Mr. Stankovic, whether there's -- whether anything has
12 changed or needs specific attention at this moment.
13 Mr. Radovic, I'll first give you an opportunity to say something
14 about that and I'll also give Mr. Stankovic an opportunity to do so.
15 MR. RADOVIC: [Interpretation] As regards the health, I will not be
16 saying anything about that; let Mr. Stankovic say that. I avoided to make
17 any statements about his health at previous Status Conferences because
18 this is his private matter.
19 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
20 Mr. Stankovic, if you would like to address me in respect of
21 health or personal circumstances, you're invited to do so at this moment.
22 You also know the conditions: That is, no offensive language, no insults,
23 but if you would like to bring something to my attention please proceed.
24 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Mr. Orie, I would like to ask you
25 not to interrupt me while I speak.
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
1 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Stankovic --
2 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Let me say what I have to say in
3 peace. Please do not interrupt in the middle of my sentence.
4 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Stankovic. Mr. Stankovic, I will not --
5 Mr. Stankovic, I will not interrupt you as long as you keep within the
6 limits I've set. Please proceed.
7 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] When it comes to my health, you
8 attack my nervous system, you have been doing so on a daily basis for
9 three years. I spend my life waiting for my trial to begin. And today
10 this lady comes here, the representative of this Jamahiriya court, and
11 says the three years do not count. They do not count as being -- having
12 been spent in prison. What do I need to have? To be taken to Bosnia and
13 Herzegovina, the Jamahiriya there, to Iran, to Tehran, to Turkey, and to
14 spend all those years there? People, you have ruined my life. Do you
15 have any evidence? If you do, please go ahead. I want my trial to begin.
16 Please, I want to say something with regard to the referral of the
17 case. It is all the same to me where I will be tried, Mr. Orie. Even if
18 I am to be tried in the Jamahiriya, that's fine. I want to go there to
19 fight them with the facts and arguments and to break them down. But
20 please, they want to turn Viktor Bubanj, which is a notorious execution
21 ground for Serbs and a concentration camp, to turn that into a court and
22 try me there. This reminds me of a statement by George Bush when he says
23 the prison, the camp of Abu Ghraib, where crimes were committed, will be
24 torn down to erase any site of crime and a new camp, new prison, Abu
25 Ghraib will be built there for new crimes. They didn't even tear down
1 this notorious camp in Viktor Bubanj; they just repainted the walls, the
2 walls of the concentration camp that still bear the Serbian blood, that
3 are still speckled with Serbian blood; and this is where I am to be tried.
4 Serbian blood, the blood of innocent civilians, flowed there in rivers,
5 rivers of blood flowed there, people who were taken from the Sarajevo --
6 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Stankovic. Mr. Stankovic -- Mr. Stankovic --
7 Mr. Stankovic. Mr. Stankovic, I gave you an opportunity to say something
8 about your health and your personal circumstances, and I told you not to
9 use offensive language and not to insult anyone. You are at this moment
10 dealing with matters other -- Mr. Stankovic, you are dealing with matters
11 -- Mr. Stankovic, no one will hear you because your microphone is off.
12 Mr. Stankovic, you're dealing at this moment with matters which go
13 beyond your health and your personal circumstances and you are -- well,
14 using language I can still stand but language I -- but language I --
15 Mr. Stankovic, I've -- Mr. Stankovic, I've given you an opportunity to --
16 Mr. Stankovic, I've given you an opportunity to express yourself; you have
17 used it in a way which you wasted it.
18 Is there anything else -- is there anything else -- is there
19 anything else counsel would like to --
20 Mr. Stankovic -- Mr. Stankovic, if -- Mr. Stankovic --
21 Mr. Stankovic -- Mr. Stankovic, it will not be translated; no one will
22 hear it. Could you please -- Mr. Stankovic, this is my last warning,
23 you'll be removed from this courtroom if you continue. Have you
24 understood this?
25 Mr. Radovic, have you anything to add? I'm sorry, yes, I blocked
1 your microphone.
2 MR. RADOVIC: [Interpretation] No, I don't, Your Honour.
3 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you very much, Mr. Radovic.
4 Anything you would like to raise?
5 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: No, Your Honour. Nothing arises.
6 JUDGE ORIE: This concludes the Status Conference and I would
7 specifically thank the interpreters and the technicians for their
8 assistance at this late moment. Thank you very much.
9 --- Whereupon the Status Conference adjourned
10 at 7.10 p.m.