1 Thursday, 23 November 2006
2 [Status Conference]
3 [Open session]
4 [The accused entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 10.05 a.m.
6 JUDGE ORIE: Good morning to everyone in this courtroom, and good
7 morning also to those assisting us just outside the courtroom.
8 Madam Registrar, would you please call the case.
9 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honour. This is case number
10 IT-96-23/2-PT, the Prosecutor versus Dragan Zelenovic.
11 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar.
12 May I have the appearances. Prosecution first, please.
13 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Good morning, Your Honour. My name is
14 Hildegard Uertz-Retzlaff, and I appear today together with Trial Attorney
15 Mr. Manoj Sachdeva and our case manager Verica Balikic.
16 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Uertz-Retzlaff.
17 And for the Defence.
18 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honour. My
19 name is Zoran Jovanovic. I am an attorney from Belgrade, and I am
20 representing the accused, Dragan Zelenovic. Thank you.
21 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Mr. Jovanovic.
22 Mr. Zelenovic, first question is whether you can hear me and can
23 hear the other participants in this -- in this Status Conference in a
24 language you understand.
25 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.
1 JUDGE ORIE: You may remain seated, Mr. Zelenovic.
2 Mr. Zelenovic, this is a Status Conference, the first Status
3 Conference in your case, and it's unrelated to another hearing we recently
4 had, which is the hearing under Rule 11 bis. At that hearing the
5 possibility of your case to be referred to the former Yugoslavia was the
6 subject of discussion, whereas at this Status Conference we are focusing
7 on where the parties stand as far as trial preparation here in The Hague
8 is concerned. This Status Conference was supposed to take place within
9 120 days from the initial appearance, but due to unavailability of counsel
10 it was rescheduled and now takes place at a little bit of this time-limit.
11 I'd like to address the parties. Are there any disclosure issues
12 outstanding at this moment?
13 Perhaps I should address you, Mr. Jovanovic, because you're the
14 one who should receive any disclosed material. Are there any issues
15 outstanding in that respect?
16 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
17 Not for the time being. The Defence is in constant contact with
18 the Prosecution, and we have received materials from the Kunjarac and
19 others case which is relevant for the present case, the written statements
20 by the accused, transcripts of the public hearings, and the transcripts
21 have been translated so that the accused can also read those materials.
22 And before I arrived here, we received materials pursuant to Rule 68 from
23 the Prosecution. I have not yet been able to inspect it, but we have had
24 no problems in this regard whatsoever.
25 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you.
1 Madam Uertz-Retzlaff, are there any surprises to be expected or --
2 while you know that sometimes disclosure issues suddenly come up. Is
3 there any reason to assume that such surprises would be there in the near
5 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: No, Your Honour, we have actually completed
6 the disclosure of both Rule 66 material and Rule 68 material and there are
7 no surprises to be expected.
8 JUDGE ORIE: That's good to hear.
9 Then the next item I'd like to ask you about is the following. We
10 come to a point where soon I think the Prosecution would meet, perhaps,
11 with the Defence and with the Senior Legal Officer and to see when
12 pre-trial briefs could be submitted, witness lists, et cetera. Although
13 the case is not expected to be tried very soon, but let's say within the
14 next three months, would the Prosecution be in a position to -- to tell
15 the Court when pre-trial briefs could be submitted and when witness lists,
16 exhibit lists, et cetera, could be produced?
17 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Your Honour, since the initial appearance we
18 are in constant discussion with the Defence, and I think we can finalise
19 all pre-trial issues within this week, I hope. We have a meeting with the
20 Defence today, and I hope the result will actually enable us to wrap up
21 the case within a week or two, perhaps, and --
22 JUDGE ORIE: So then the Chamber will hear soon from -- well, any
23 scheduling issues --
24 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Yes.
25 JUDGE ORIE: -- as far as pre-trial preparations are concerned?
1 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Yes, Your Honour.
2 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Thank you for that.
3 Mr. Jovanovic, I see that you seem to agree with Madam
4 Uertz-Retzlaff on pre-trial issues to be resolved relatively soon.
5 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, that's what I expect, Your
7 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
8 Then as a matter of fact as far as trial preparations and further
9 developments are concerned, there seems to be nothing more to be
10 discussed, unless you, Madam Uertz-Retzlaff, or you, Mr. Jovanovic, would
11 have any issue to be raised at this moment. I'll come later to the more
12 personal issues like health and detention situation.
13 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Nothing from the Prosecution, Your Honour.
14 JUDGE ORIE: Nothing from the Prosecution.
15 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, we have no issues
16 that the Defence would like to raise, and as you say you will be asking
17 questions about the health and some personal circumstances of the accused,
18 but this is something that either the Defence or the accused may answer
19 depending on your instructions, Your Honour.
20 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Then I also think - but please correct me when
21 I'm wrong - that there are no pending motions at this moment. I think the
22 last decision by this Trial Chamber was delivered on the 11th of October,
23 which decided the preliminary motion filed by the Defence on the form of
24 the indictment, which was -- the motion was denied, but I don't think that
25 there are any other motions pending, that there are any issues apart from
1 disclosure and pre-trial developments.
2 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: That's correct, Your Honour.
3 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, I agree, Your Honour.
4 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Then finally, I'd like to address you
5 personally, Mr. Zelenovic. Are there any health issues or any detention
6 issues you would like to raise, either by yourself or through counsel?
7 And I inform you that if any of the -- if there's any health issue to be
8 raised, that you always can ask to go into private session because health
9 issues are not necessarily to be heard in public.
10 Yes, I hear from Mr. Jovanovic. Mr. Jovanovic.
11 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, thank you. I don't
12 think there is any need for us to go into private session. We will not be
13 going into any details.
14 The health of the accused, Dragan Zelenovic, has deteriorated
15 substantially, and I -- I received the medical documents from the
16 UN Detention Unit, and now let me just give you a very brief summary of
17 the report with a diagnosis and his general health condition, this is here
18 in this report, and the Defence has contacted both the Registry and the
19 relevant bodies in the UN Detention Unit. So this is being dealt with.
20 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. So I do understand that although the health
21 situation has been deteriorated that proper medical care is provided. Is
22 that how I can understand your words?
23 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour. The accused has
24 underwent -- has undergone medical examinations in hospitals, so not only
25 in the UN Detention Unit. He's being treated in the UN Detention Unit,
1 and the accused has no objections to the therapy he's receiving right now.
2 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you for that information.
3 That as far as the medical condition of you, Mr. Zelenovic, is
4 concerned. Is there any detention issue which you would like to bring to
5 my attention?
6 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, no.
7 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Zelenovic, if you would sit down, then we would
8 be better able to follow you because you're so far away from the
9 microphone. Yes. Yes.
10 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you.
11 I have no problems in the Detention Unit, but I have problems when
12 I'm transported to the Tribunal. I have nothing to wear. I have spent
13 the last -- the last year in detention, and when I come here for a hearing
14 I have to borrow clothes. Because when I was in detention in Russia I was
15 told that I should buy some clothes in -- when I was in jail there, and I
16 even painted some rooms for them, but nothing happened in the end.
17 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Well, that's an issue that does not immediately
18 affect the proceedings before this Trial Chamber, but I do understand -- I
19 fully understand that you feel not very comfortable if you don't have your
20 own clothes, which is in many systems specifically a right for those who
21 are not yet tried to have their own clothes available.
22 Did you try to get in touch with your family to have any clothing
23 sent or -- I must admit that I'm not fully familiar with how you would buy
24 clothes in a detention situation. I take it that there must be some
25 possibility. At least it's good that you have drawn the attention to this
1 issue, which seems to be an issue primarily within the responsibility of
2 the Registry because it concerns the detention situation.
3 Have you been in touch with your family to see whether you could
4 resolve it?
5 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I wrote to the
6 government of the Republika Srpska through the Registry, and the response
7 that I got was, We cannot help them in any way. They cannot get a ticket
8 to -- for my family to come here. I have been here for six months without
9 any contact with my family. My family has been unable to visit us, and
10 the Republika Srpska government says, Well, we didn't surrender him. He
11 was transferred here from Russia by the Russian authorities to the
12 Federation, so this has nothing to do with us.
13 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. I do understand the situation. Again, it's
14 good that you've drawn our attention to it because I can understand how
15 uncomfortable it is for you, and it seems to be a problem which perhaps,
16 also with the help of your counsel, seems not an insurmountable problem.
17 Mr. Jovanovic.
18 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour. Mr. Zelenovic's
19 wife, who lives in Foca, is a very poor financial status, and that has
20 been established in the course of the proceedings to establish his
21 financial status in order to assign counsel. On several occasions, I
22 contacted Mr. Zelenovic's sister in Belgrade. She sent some money to him
23 and some warm clothing that he can use during walks in the Detention Unit,
24 but that is all. I'm always here to -- available to bring him whatever
25 his family sends.
1 I also addressed the office for the cooperation with the ICTY and
2 the government of Republika Srpska, but they told me that the decision
3 concerning assistance that was in application before is now not in force
4 any longer and that they have absolutely no means to help Mr. Zelenovic
5 any longer.
6 I am at your disposal for any contact that I can make, and every
7 time I come to visit I will bring whatever his family sends him. He is in
8 telephone contact with his family, and I suppose it is up to his family
9 whether they are going to send him money, clothes, or whatever else.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Mr. Jovanovic, I have been Defence counsel in
11 the past and I could not imagine that any of my clients in the past
12 finally would not have some clothes of their own in which they could
13 appear in court. It is -- I see it that as a problem who would pay for
14 it, but finally I could not imagine that I would not with some inventivity
15 resolve that problem, and I take it that you have difficulties to imagine
16 yourself that not in any way you could resolve this problem.
17 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, yes, I feel the same
18 way as you, and I look at things the same way as you do. And if I'm
19 allowed to be creative, the problem will be resolved. I will do
20 everything in my power to resolve the problem within the framework of the
21 Rules of Procedure of this Tribunal.
22 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. It is good to hear that you also consider the
23 problem one that could and should be resolved.
24 Any other detention issue, Mr. Zelenovic?
25 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, no.
1 JUDGE ORIE: Is there any other matter to be raised at this
3 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: No, Your Honour.
4 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Jovanovic.
5 MR. JOVANOVIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour.
6 JUDGE ORIE: Then we'll adjourn sine die.
7 --- Whereupon the Status Conference
8 adjourned at 10.23 a.m.