1 Monday, 21 March 2005
2 [Status Conference]
3 [Open session]
4 --- Upon commencing at 12.45 p.m.
5 [The accused entered court]
6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Registrar, will you please
7 call the case.
8 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. Case
9 number IT-97-25/1-PT, the Prosecutor versus Savo Todovic and Mitar
11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Registrar.
12 Can we have the appearances for the Prosecution, please.
13 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Good afternoon, Your Honours. My name is
14 Hildegard Uertz-Retzlaff. I represent the Prosecution today and I am
15 accompanied by the case manager, Sebastian van Hooydonk.
16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you. And for the Defence,
18 MR. LAZAREVIC: Good afternoon, Your Honour. My name is
19 Aleksandar Lazarevic and I'm Defence counsel for Mr. Savo Todovic.
20 MR. DOMAZET: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honour.
21 Vladimir Domazet representing the accused, Mitar Rasevic.
22 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The Chamber today, the 21st of
23 March, 2005 bids good afternoon to all those present, to the
24 representatives of the Prosecution, the two advocates and the two accused
25 who are present today.
1 As you know, this is a Status Conference within the framework of
2 Rule 65, according to which a Status Conference shall be convened within
3 120 days after the initial appearance. We have a new accused who has
4 arrived in the meantime, and I'm going to ask Mr. Todovic to be kind
5 enough to stand.
6 Mr. Todovic. You may be seated, Mr. Rasevic, as we have already
7 seen each other and I know you. So will you give me your name and your
8 date of birth, please.
9 THE ACCUSED TODOVIC: [Interpretation] My name is Savo Todovic. I
10 was born on the 11th of December, 1952.
11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you. You are able to
12 follow what I'm saying in your own language?
13 THE ACCUSED TODOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, I am.
14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well, you may be seated.
15 THE ACCUSED TODOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.
16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I'm going to briefly remind you
17 of the procedure.
18 First of all, the Prosecutor, on the 6th of January, 1997, issued
19 an indictment against the three accused. At the time there was Milorad
20 Krnojelac, Mr. Savo Todovic, and Mr. Mitar Rasevic. This indictment of
21 the 6th of June, 1997 was confirmed by Judge Vohrah on the 17th of June
23 Following that, the accused Krnojelac was transferred to the
24 Tribunal in June 1998 and he was judged by Trial Chamber which rendered
25 its judgement on the 15th of March, 2002 and following by the Appeals
1 Chamber which also rendered its judgement on the 17th of September, 2003.
2 In the meantime, the accused, Mitar Rasevic, came to the Tribunal and the
3 indictment with regard to him was modified on the 12th of May, 2004.
4 On the other hand, regarding the accused Todovic, the indictment
5 of the 6th of June, 1997 is the legal basis for the current proceedings.
6 Regarding this indictment of the 6th of June, 1997, the Prosecution has
7 filed a motion on the 14th of March, 2005 requesting the Chamber to rule
8 on a motion of the Defence for the accused Todovic, which was filed on the
9 10th of March, 2005. Consequently, the Chamber needs to rule and I will
10 shortly render a decision ordering the Prosecution to amend the indictment
11 of June 1997 so that that indictment may be in conformity with the
12 indictment for Mr. Rasevic which was modified or amended in May, 2004.
13 In the meantime, the Prosecution has seized the Tribunal of a
14 request based on Rule 11 bis to have this case transferred to a national
15 jurisdiction and a request was filed on the 1st of November, 2004 for the
16 Todovic case, and on the 4th of November, 2004 for the Rasevic case.
17 Today, I don't know where we stand with respect to that request. The
18 Chamber, resided by Judge Orie needs to render a decision with respect to
19 the possible transfer of this case to a national jurisdiction. I don't
20 know what is the position of the accused, whether they are in favour or
21 not, I don't know, but perhaps the Defence counsel will be able to inform
22 me about that in a moment.
23 Regarding the 11 bis motion, it will be up to the Chamber formed
24 for that purpose to rule regarding that matter. Therefore, in brief, for
25 the moment, we have two outstanding motions, the motion of the accused
1 Todovic with respect to an error in form of the indictment, and the motion
2 of the 14th of March, 2005 requesting the Chamber to rule on the motion of
3 the Defence for Mr. Todovic.
4 Independently of these matters, during the Status Conference held
5 in November, I asked the Prosecution to provide me with the pre-trial
6 brief, because at that time, in November, I thought that the case was
7 taking too much time and that the Chamber should be informed about it.
8 The Prosecution, by motion, has asked for this delay to be extended to the
9 1st of April. I granted that request. But with the arrival of the
10 accused Todovic, a similar question arises, that is, with respect to the
11 pre-trial brief to the extent to which the accused Todovic is entitled to
12 be informed in accordance with Rule 66(A) and (I) and with Rule 68 with
13 the supporting material and the brief.
14 However, as we now have two accused, I assume that the case will
15 be delayed to some extent.
16 Could the Prosecution first of all, tell me whether Judge Orie's
17 Chamber has given a date regarding the consideration of 11 bis motions and
18 what are the intentions of the Prosecution as we now have the two accused
19 present here and whether this case will be tried here; if so, the two
20 accused need to be tried simultaneously or in their own country.
21 So could the Prosecution provide me with this information?
22 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Your Honour, the Trial Chamber has not yet
23 scheduled this case as there is not yet a hearing scheduled. This is
24 probably due to the fact that I actually had requested together with the
25 Defence not to have this hearing because we were having negotiations.
1 In open session, I don't want to address these negotiations.
2 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You would like us to go into
3 private session?
4 Mr. Registrar, shall we go into private session, please.
5 [Private session]
22 [Open session]
23 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] We are in open session, Mr.
25 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] In open session, as the
1 Pre-Trial Judge, I need to tell the Prosecution that regardless of all the
2 other procedures that are underway, that they need to communicate to the
3 Defence of Mr. Todovic the supporting material and Rule 66(A) and Rule 68.
4 Can the Prosecution inform me that these legal obligations have been
5 fulfilled to the letter?
6 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Your Honour, we have disclosed the supporting
7 material within the 30 days; that's done. And the other disclosure is an
8 ongoing process and we will, of course, fulfill our obligation.
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.
10 Regarding the disclosure of material, are there any problems on
11 the side of the Defence counsel? Is everything running smoothly, Mr.
13 MR. LAZAREVIC: Yes, Your Honour, I can confirm that everything is
14 ongoing. We have received further disclosure, the documents that were
15 supportive for the indictment and that these are six binders of documents
16 and I can confirm that I received them and it's now on the Defence to
17 discuss these issues with the detainees.
18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Lazarevic.
19 I now need to ask the accused to comment on the conditions of
20 detention and their state of health.
21 Mr. Rasevic, will you stand, please?
22 [The accused Rasevic stands up]
23 Mr. Rasevic, can you tell me whether you have anything to say
24 about conditions of detention, are they still good?
25 THE ACCUSED RASEVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you for asking, Your
1 Honour. The conditions of detention are still good. I have absolutely no
2 remarks or comments to make. My health is good. I am grappling with
3 certain financial problems. The only thing that is that this is going on
4 for so long.
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. I take note of that.
6 THE ACCUSED RASEVIC: [Interpretation] I have nothing more to say.
7 Thank you.
8 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Rasevic. You may
9 be seated.
10 [The accused Rasevic sits down]
11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Todovic, will you stand,
13 [The accused Todovic stands up]
14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Todovic, as you have just
15 arrived, I need to draw your attention to a few of the rules of procedure
16 with respect to conditions of detention.
17 Rule 84 stays that all detainees may, at any time, file a request
18 or a complaint to the commander of the Detention Unit or his
19 representative. If you are not satisfied with the response of the
20 Detention Unit commander, you can file a complaint in writing which will
21 be forwarded to the Registrar of this Tribunal and then to the President
22 of the Tribunal.
23 Also, according to Rule 86, you have the ability to communicate
24 freely with the inspection authority, so a Judge may, should there be a
25 problem, come to see you in the prison to address all problems linked to
1 your detention. Pursuant to Rule 87, when you file a complaint, that
2 complaint will be treated confidentially and according to Rule 88, when
3 you file a complaint, they must be dealt with as soon as possible.
4 Therefore, in more -- most general terms, the way in which -- should you
5 have any problems in the Detention Unit, address them through a complaint
6 addressed to the Registrar, the commander of the prison, or the Pre-Trial
8 Regardless of this matter, I need to ask you, even though you
9 arrived only recently, have you encountered any difficulties? If so, let
10 me know. Do you have anything to tell me regarding your conditions of
12 THE ACCUSED TODOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, the conditions
13 of detention are perfectly correct at the highest level. The personnel
14 are fair. My condition -- health conditions are good so that I have
15 nothing further to say.
16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Todovic. You may
17 be seated.
18 [The accused Todovic sits down]
19 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I hope that we will shortly have
20 a clear situation whether this case will be tried here or in the country
21 of origin of the two accused, as it is stipulated that the accused Rasevic
22 has been here for sometime and as he has just said, it seems a long time
23 for him.
24 The Prosecution have the floor.
25 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: I have two issues, and it's all about
1 timing. First of all, in our recent motion from 14 March, we have
2 indicated in paragraph 3 that an interview is scheduled with the accused
3 Todovic and it was indeed scheduled for this week. Only this morning,
4 before the hearing, Mr. Lazarevic informed me that it cannot take place
5 this week because Mr. Todovic wants to consider first the material in more
6 details. Therefore, because of the Easter break, this interview can only