1 Tuesday, 6 September 2011
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 2.18 p.m.
5 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Good afternoon to everybody in the courtroom.
6 The witness should be brought in, please.
7 [The witness takes the stand]
8 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Good afternoon, sir. Please sit down.
9 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
10 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Welcome back to the courtroom.
11 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
12 JUDGE FLUEGGE: I have to remind you that the affirmation to tell
13 the truth you made at the beginning of your testimony yesterday still
14 applies today.
15 THE WITNESS: Yes.
16 WITNESS: JAN DE KOEIJER [Resumed]
17 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Ms. Hasan is continuing her examination in chief.
18 You have the floor, Ms. Hasan.
19 MS. HASAN: Thank you, Mr. President. And good afternoon to
20 Your Honours and to the Defence and everyone else in the courtroom.
21 Examination by Ms. Hasan: [Continued]
22 Q. We left off yesterday with you demonstrating some of your
23 findings using the detailed images of the document that you had captured.
24 MS. HASAN: And if we can go back to those images, which is
25 65 ter 7527. And if we could turn to page 2, please. If we can actually
1 just keep it as it is for the moment. Thank you.
2 Q. Witness, do you see, on the left there, there's some handwritten
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Who made those notations?
6 A. I made those notations.
7 Q. Okay. And can you tell us what it says? It's somewhat faint
9 A. It says, on top, 00696610. And at the bottom it says row 1.
10 Q. Now, if we can go to the attendance roster itself, which is
11 P1754, page 3 of that.
12 MS. HASAN: And I'd ask, if it's possible this time, to display
13 the English version as well.
14 Q. And we've been looking at the excerpts of this document.
15 MS. HASAN: Could we -- yeah, could we flip to page 3 in the
16 B/C/S, which I think is also page 3 in the English version. Sorry, it
17 must be page 2 in the English version.
18 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Perhaps it -- I think it would be sufficient to
19 have the column 1 and 2 of the English version on the screen so that the
20 B/C/S version could be enlarged a bit, if that is technically possible.
21 MS. HASAN: Okay --
22 JUDGE FLUEGGE: I was referring to the English version. Perhaps
23 we can move both a bit to the right. We could make the right-hand side
24 of the screen smaller and enlarge the left-hand side. Is that possible?
1 Sorry for my proposal. It takes some time.
2 MS. HASAN: No, it's a great proposal. Actually, we can see now
3 much better.
4 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Is that sufficient for your purposes, Ms. Hasan?
5 MS. HASAN: Yes, if we could just scroll down the English version
6 so we can see the very top of that page -- sorry, scroll up. Yeah.
7 Okay. Just to put into context what we were looking at
8 yesterday, we're looking row 1, and that is -- the name in that row is
9 Miomir Jasikovac.
10 And as Your Honours may recall, that's the
11 Lieutenant Miomir Jasikovac who was the commander of the Zvornik Brigade
12 military police company unit. And we were looking, as you can see here,
13 this is the roster, attendance roster, for July 1995, which is recorded
14 on the top right-hand corner, and the image -- the zoomed-in image we
15 were looking at the end of the session yesterday was for the days marked
16 the 14 and 15 column, which is the 14th and 15th of July.
17 Now, we're just going to take a look at one more example of a
18 zoomed-in image, and that is at page 2 of 65 ter 7527. And actually if
19 we could just -- if we haven't yet switched to that image, we would be
20 looking at rows 4 and 5, which are recorded as Nada Stojanovic and
21 Goran Bogdanovic.
22 THE INTERPRETER: Could Ms. Hasan kindly speak into the
23 microphone. Thank you.
24 MS. HASAN: Could we turn to page 3 of 65 ter 7527.
25 Q. Witness, again there's some handwritten notations on this image.
1 Could you just tell us what those notations are?
2 A. The upper notation is the evidence number 0069 -- I will just
3 get it -- 6610. The image here is quite difficult to see because it's
4 tilted too much. And the second -- the first row is row 4 and the second
5 row shown is row 5.
6 Q. Okay. And can you tell us what we see in this image here?
7 A. What we see in this image is that in column 14 we have an
8 original entry of an O in row 4 and row 5, and there are still remnants
9 of the -- of the pencil left there which makes it almost -- well, visible
10 by naked eye almost, and this is an enhanced image of that.
11 MS. HASAN: And, Mr. President, Your Honours, the original
12 attendance roster is with the Court Officer if you'd like to take a look
13 at it again.
14 Q. Now, what technique did you use to see these and to capture this
16 A. This image is captured, I believe, by oblique lighting.
17 Q. And if we could now turn to your expert report, 65 ter 642.
18 MS. HASAN: May we have page 4 displayed, please. And I believe
19 it's the same page number for the English and the B/C/S versions.
20 Q. Witness, can you tell us what it is that's recorded in this
21 segment of your report?
22 A. In this segment of my report I have listed where we have
23 encountered changes. In the upper segment, it's just a summation of some
24 of the changes which we've encountered in the document, but we haven't
25 specified where these changes were because they were not really in the
1 questions asked.
2 In the lower part, we specified the changes which we found in
3 relation to the letter O and the name "Orahovac."
4 Q. Okay. And aside from the rows and the columns that you've
5 recorded here where you've found the letter O, did you find any other Os
6 in the document?
7 A. Besides that, we didn't find any other original O entries in the
8 document, as far as I recall. This is -- these are the only O entries we
9 found in the document, which had been erased. Of course, in the document
10 there are other Os, but not the ones -- we were looking for the erased
12 Q. And in this portion here, I see that you report on not only the
13 erased letter Os but also erased letter Rs that you seem to have found in
14 column 15, which is the entry for July 15. Why was it that you were
15 reporting on the letter R?
16 A. We were reporting on the letter R because there seemed to be some
17 relation between the Os and the Rs. In most of the rows where we
18 encountered a letter O had been erased, also a letter R had been erased
19 in the column next to it. So we thought this may be interesting
20 information for the Court.
21 Q. Was that something that the Office of the Prosecutor of the ICTY
22 asked you to look for?
23 A. No.
24 MS. HASAN: If we can just turn the page now to page 5 of the
1 Q. Witness, the first sentence here, in English, reads:
2 "Whenever the overwriting has been done in pencil with very
3 little pressure and expertly erased, the original writing cannot be
5 What is overwriting?
6 A. Overwriting here is a wrong translation of what -- of the Dutch
7 version of the report. In the Dutch version we said "whenever entries
8 have been done in pencil," so we are emphasizing more the original
9 entries here and not the overwriting itself.
10 Q. And there's a reference in the English translation to "expertly
11 erased." What is meant by "expertly erased"?
12 A. Expertly erased is that, well, someone takes the time to really
13 erase it properly with -- and that can be done with a normal eraser.
14 Q. Okay. Is there anything else that you noted from the English
15 translation of the report that you wish to correct at this stage?
16 A. There was some difficulty in the translation of the method
17 "infrared reflection" on page 3. However, I've already discussed this
18 method yesterday, so I don't -- I'm not sure if a true correction is
19 necessary in this case.
20 MS. HASAN: Mr. President, at this stage I would then offer into
21 evidence 65 ter 642, which is the expert report of Mr. de Koeijer.
22 JUDGE FLUEGGE: This report will be received as an exhibit.
23 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, 65 ter document 642 shall be
24 assigned Exhibit P2595. Thank you.
25 MS. HASAN: And in addition to that, we have gone through all the
1 close-up images in the collection that Mr. de Koeijer provided to us, and
2 I would offer those images into evidence. And they bear the
3 65 ter number 7527.
4 JUDGE FLUEGGE: This collection of images will be received as an
5 exhibit, too.
6 Mr. Gajic.
7 MR. GAJIC: [Interpretation] I apologise, Mr. President.
8 Mr. Tolimir had trouble hearing the interpretation. However, everything
9 is all right now.
10 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Tolimir, I take it now you receive proper
11 interpretation. Is that correct?
12 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President. It's
13 fine now. Thank you.
14 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you very much.
15 Ms. Hasan has moved for accepting the document 65 ter number
16 7527, which will be received.
17 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, 65 ter document 7527 shall be
18 assigned Exhibit P2596. Thank you, Your Honours.
19 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Ms. Hasan, please continue.
20 MS. HASAN: Mr. President, those were all my questions for the
21 witness during my direct.
22 I have a very brief submission to make, but I will do that at the
23 conclusion of this witness's testimony, and it just relates to other
24 evidence in relation to this military roster.
25 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you.
1 Mr. Tolimir, you may now commence your cross-examination. You
2 have the floor.
3 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President. Peace
4 unto this house and may this day of proceedings and the whole trial end
5 in keeping with God's will, not with mine.
6 I would like to welcome Mr. de Koeijer and thank him for come to
7 testify in this trial.
8 The Defence has no questions for this witness.
9 Thank you, Mr. President. That is all.
10 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you very much.
11 Ms. Hasan, in that case, I take it that you don't have any
13 MS. HASAN: That is correct, Mr. President. Thank you.
14 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. de Koeijer, the Chamber would like to thank
15 you that you were able to provide us with your expertise and your report
16 and your testimony yesterday and today. You are now free to return to
17 your normal activities. Thank you very much again. Now you are free to
18 leave the courtroom.
19 THE WITNESS: Thank you, Your Honour.
20 [The witness withdrew]
21 JUDGE FLUEGGE: For the record, the original documents we have
22 received this morning, they should be given back to the Prosecution.
23 Ms. Hasan, you wanted to submit something. You have floor.
24 MS. HASAN: Yes, Mr. President, as we wait for the next witness
25 to come in and for Mr. Vanderpuye to make his way down to the courtroom,
1 I just wanted to remind you of some of the witnesses that you have heard
2 and whose evidence is part of the trial record that relates to the
3 Zvornik Brigade military police roster and the findings of
4 Mr. de Koeijer; namely, Nebojsa Jeremic, Stanoje Bircakovic,
5 Dragoje Ivanovic, Milorad Bircakovic --
6 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Please slow down. We would like to have the
7 names properly recorded. Perhaps you could repeat the third name.
8 MS. HASAN: Yes. Dragoje Ivanovic. The fourth name is recorded
10 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Please wait until we see the correct name. There
11 it is. Please continue.
12 MS. HASAN: PW-57, PW-58, PW-59, and the evidence of PW-60.
13 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you.
14 MS. HASAN: Thank you very much, Mr. President.
15 JUDGE FLUEGGE: I take it that Mr. Tomasz Blaszczyk is the next
16 witness. After the arrival of Mr. Vanderpuye, he should be brought into
17 the courtroom.
18 Good afternoon, Mr. Vanderpuye.
19 MR. VANDERPUYE: Good afternoon to you, Mr. President,
20 Your Honours. Good afternoon, everyone.
21 Mr. President, I'm not sure what our position is with respect to
22 the cross-examination of Mr. Blaszczyk who is entering the courtroom as
23 our next witness.
24 [The witness entered court]
25 MR. VANDERPUYE: This was a matter that I raised with Mr. Gajic
1 in advance of his testimony, and I didn't hear back from the Defence with
2 respect to that issue. So I assume that it's a matter that's being
3 resolved or will be resolved in accordance with my communication with
4 Mr. Gajic which suggested that if the Defence so requires, that they,
5 perhaps, will make an application to the Trial Chamber to postpone
6 Mr. Blaszczyk's cross-examination.
7 We are aware of the Trial Chamber's order from July, I believe it
8 was 19th, in respect of our application to expand the scope of
9 Mr. Blaszczyk's testimony, and in relation to the addition of another
10 witness whom, pursuant to the order, the Trial Chamber indicated should
11 be called as the last witnesses in the Prosecution's case.
12 Unfortunately, because of scheduling issues and the availability of
13 restrictions, I would say, or limitations on some of our other witnesses,
14 that has become, I would say, impossible to do, although we've tried to.
15 So I'm prepared to go forward, and I'd leave it to Mr. Gajic to
16 let us know what the Defence's position is.
17 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Tolimir or Mr. Gajic, do you want to respond?
18 Mr. Gajic.
19 MR. GAJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, the Defence will not
20 delay the cross-examination of Mr. Blaszczyk.
21 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you for this information. There is no
22 objection to proceed now with Mr. Blaszczyk's evidence.
23 Welcome back, Mr. Blaszczyk, to the courtroom and to this trial.
24 You have been here several times already and testified on other matters.
25 Now, in relation to a different matter.
1 However, the affirmation to tell the truth, the oath you made at
2 the beginning of the first day of your testimony, still applies today.
3 THE WITNESS: I understand, Your Honour. And good afternoon.
4 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Good afternoon.
5 WITNESS: TOMASZ BLASZCZYK [Resumed]
6 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Vanderpuye, your examination-in-chief,
8 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you very much, Mr. President.
9 Examination by Mr. Vanderpuye:
10 Q. Good afternoon to you, Mr. Blaszczyk.
11 A. Good afternoon.
12 Q. And welcome back again. Your qualifications and experience are
13 all on the record, so I will not go back into that. Today we're here to
14 talk about a collection of evidence that is in the possession of the
15 Office of the Prosecutor, so let's just get right to it.
16 Are you familiar with a collection of evidence that the Office of
17 the Prosecution has referred to in this trial as the Pecanac collection?
18 A. Yes, I am.
19 Q. And can you tell us a little bit about how it is that this
20 collection of evidence came into the possession of the Office of the
22 A. In November 2009, the Office of the Prosecutor asked the
23 authorities of Republic of Serbia to conduct a search of the premises
24 belonging to Mr. Dragomir Pecanac, the former VRS officer. And this
25 search was conducted on the 2nd of December, 2009, and during the search
1 several items were seized from the house of Mr. Pecanac, including some
2 CDs, a computer, and some documents. It was 2nd of December, 2009.
3 Prosecutor Office, on our request, we received first in January 2010 the
4 copy, scanned copy, of the document seized at Mr. Pecanac's
5 accommodation, and later on, I believe, I think it was March 2010 we
6 received also a copy of the hard drive of the computer seized from
7 Mr. Pecanac's accommodation on the 2nd of December, 2009.
8 Q. I want to show you --
9 MR. VANDERPUYE: Actually, I think I should apply to the
10 Trial Chamber first. This is, Your Honour, a document that's not part of
11 our 65 ter list. It's designated 765 ter 7522. And it relates to a
12 number of items that were the subject of the seizure. In fact, it's a
13 certificate thereof which I would like to present to the Trial Chamber.
14 I don't know whether the Defence has any objection to that.
15 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Tolimir, are there any objections?
16 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President. I would
17 like to greet Mr. Vanderpuye and Mr. Blaszczyk. The Defence has no
18 objection to any evidence presented by the Prosecution. Thank you.
19 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Gajic.
20 MR. GAJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, I would like to move
21 into private session just for a brief moment, please.
22 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Private.
23 [Private session]
11 Pages 17657-17674 redacted. Private session.
16 [Open session]
17 THE REGISTRAR: We are back in open session, Your Honours. Thank
19 JUDGE FLUEGGE: The witness should be brought into the courtroom
20 again, please.
21 And we all should try to decide case-by-case how to proceed in
22 open or in private session, if it's necessary, but now I think everybody
23 is aware of the situation.
24 [The witness takes the stand]
25 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Please sit down, Mr. Blaszczyk.
1 Our apologies for this interruption and the delay, but now we are
2 continuing. We are in open session.
3 Mr. Vanderpuye, please go ahead.
4 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. President.
5 I think I was just about to call up 65 ter 7522. If we could
6 have that in e-court, please.
7 Q. All right. We have it now in e-court in both B/C/S and English.
8 JUDGE FLUEGGE: But I would like to add --
9 MR. VANDERPUYE: Yes, Mr. President.
10 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Leave is granted to add this document to the
11 65 ter exhibit list.
12 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you.
13 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Please continue.
14 MR. VANDERPUYE:
15 Q. Mr. Blaszczyk, do you recognise this document?
16 A. Yes, I do.
17 Q. And what is it?
18 A. This is confirmation of -- this is said record -- seized record
19 from the search conducted at the 2nd of December, 2009, at the house of
20 Mr. Pecanac.
21 Q. And what does it -- what does it show? I see, here, that there
22 are a number of items indicated here. Are these the items that were
23 confiscated and turned over to the ICTY, that is, the OTP?
24 A. Yes, this is correct. Most of these items were handed over to
25 the ICTY, to the OTP.
1 MR. VANDERPUYE: If we could go, please, to page 3 in the English
2 and page 3 in the B/C/S.
3 Q. At the bottom of this page -- one moment, we're getting there in
4 the B/C/S.
5 At the bottom of the page, we can see that there is a pair of
6 signatures. And are you familiar with either of these signatures?
7 A. Yes, I am familiar with the left-hand-side signature. It's the
8 signature of Dragomir Pecanac.
9 Q. And could you tell us, just briefly, how you're familiar with the
10 signature of Mr. Pecanac.
11 A. I had opportunity to review some documents signed by Mr. Pecanac
12 from the period of war.
13 Q. All right. We'll take a look at those in a little while.
14 MR. VANDERPUYE: If I may, at this time, Mr. President, I would
15 like to tender this document.
16 JUDGE FLUEGGE: It will be received.
17 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, 65 ter document 7522 shall be
18 assigned Exhibit P2597. Thank you, Your Honours.
19 MR. VANDERPUYE:
20 Q. Mr. Blaszczyk, in this certificate that we've just looked at --
21 MR. VANDERPUYE: If we could just go back to page 1 in both
23 Q. -- it indicates that a search was carried out. It gives the
24 address and the time as 11.30 on the 2nd of December, 2009. Do you know
25 whether or not any member of the OTP or maybe even the ICTY was involved
1 in carrying out or conducting this search?
2 A. Definitely not. No one from ICTY, from OTP, participated in this
4 Q. At the very last page of this document, it indicated here -- or
5 it indicates, rather, that an investigating judge will be notified of the
6 temporary confiscation of items. And are you aware of any proceedings
7 that followed the confiscation of these items, as indicated in this
9 A. Do you mean the procedurals from Republic of Serbia?
10 Q. Yes, sir.
11 A. To my knowledge, the investigation judge should approve the
12 seizure, should approve also the items seized from particular citizen, in
13 this case Mr. Pecanac, and issuing the order, or whatever, information or
14 just confirmation -- to, that's it, to Mr. Pecanac in this case, that
15 these items in particular were seized from him.
16 Q. What I would like to show you is 65 ter 7523.
17 MR. VANDERPUYE: Mr. President, I would apply also to add this
18 particular exhibit to the Prosecution's 65 ter list. This relates to the
19 question that I've just asked Mr. Blaszczyk.
20 JUDGE FLUEGGE: I take it from the previous answer of Mr. Tolimir
21 that there is no objection. It may be added to the exhibit list.
22 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. President. If I could -- we do
23 have it in e-court already.
24 Q. Do you recognise this document, Mr. Blaszczyk?
25 A. Yes, I do. I've seen this document.
1 Q. Okay. And can you tell us basically what it is?
2 A. This is a document dated 12th February, 2010. This is a kind of
3 the record from interview conducted by -- by MUP guys, by MUP people from
4 Republic of Serbia, with Dragomir Pecanac, related to seizure of the
5 documents and also to the seized material.
6 MR. VANDERPUYE: If we could just go -- I think it should be to
7 the second page in both documents. I'm sorry, we should stay on the
8 first page in the B/C/S. It's just under the indication of his
10 Q. At the very bottom of the page, and we'll see that under -- right
11 under the word "statement," or the caption "statement," it indicates the
12 documents that were seized from me pursuant to a record number 03/4-3-1,
13 number 230-9894, and it says 09, on 2nd December, 2009.
14 And he says that these documents were seized from him and he'd
15 been collecting them for years, for many years; you see that?
16 A. Yes, I do.
17 Q. And does this refer to the search that you've just testified
18 about, the document that we've just seen?
19 A. Yes, it's correct. It refers to the search conducted on this
20 particular date.
21 MR. VANDERPUYE: And if we go to the last page, I think it will
22 be page 3 in the English, page 2 in the B/C/S, we can see that the
23 document is signed.
24 Q. Do you see that?
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. And it also refers to the date of completion as February 12 at
2 1600 hours and also indicates that the party took a copy of his
3 statement; yes?
4 A. Yes, it's correct.
5 MR. VANDERPUYE: Mr. President, I would like to also tender this
7 JUDGE FLUEGGE: It will be received.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, 65 ter document 7523 shall assigned
9 Exhibit P2598. Thank you, Your Honours.
10 MR. VANDERPUYE:
11 Q. I believe, Mr. Blaszczyk --
12 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Gajic.
13 MR. GAJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, I notice one mistake
14 in the translation. We have the correct page on the screen. It says:
15 "The party, Dragomir Pecanac," and in English it says "signed."
16 However, there is no signature in the original.
17 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you.
18 Mr. Vanderpuye.
19 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. President.
20 That is correct. I see that in the translation, and I believe I
21 see that in the document. The document does not appear to reflect a
22 signature of Mr. Pecanac but reflects signatures of the other individuals
23 there, Danijela Antic, Srdan Citakovic, and Dalibor Radakovic.
24 I would still tender the document. I think it's still
25 admissible. Nevertheless --
1 JUDGE FLUEGGE: It is already received.
2 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. President. And hopefully I will
3 have a chance to address the party indicated, Mr. Pecanac, with that --
4 with this document as well.
5 I have an indication that it's the break time, and maybe it's a
6 good point to take it, since I'm about to move to a different document.
7 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. -- sorry, Judge Mindua has a question in
8 relation to this document.
9 JUDGE MINDUA: [Interpretation] Mr. Vanderpuye, I don't know
10 whether you responded to the objection made by the Defence with regard to
11 the lack of a signature by Mr. Pecanac, because on the document I have
12 before me it says that he admits having seen the minutes and the items
13 seized and he signs, but there is no signature.
14 Generally, when someone refuses to sign, it states that the
15 person has not signed for such and such a reason, but here nothing is
16 said. How can you answer my question?
17 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Vanderpuye will have the opportunity to put
18 this question to Mr. Pecanac if he did sign it or what would be the
19 reason why he didn't sign it when he appears as a witness in court.
20 MR. VANDERPUYE: Yes, hopefully I will have that opportunity,
21 Mr. President.
22 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Blaszczyk, have you any idea about the reason
23 why this document was not signed by Mr. Pecanac?
24 THE WITNESS: Your Honour, I have no information why this
25 document is not signed by Mr. Pecanac. I can only guess why not.
1 Regarding this interview conducted on 12th February, 2010, by the
2 colleagues from Serbia MUP, Mr. Pecanac also -- I think this interview is
3 also mentioned in interview conducted by investigation --
4 Investigative Judge Mr. Dilparic in March the same year.
5 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you. We must have the first break now, and
6 we will resume quarter past 4.00.
7 --- Recess taken at 3.48 p.m.
8 --- On resuming at 4.18 p.m.
9 JUDGE FLUEGGE: I see you on your feet, Mr. Gajic.
10 MR. GAJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, just briefly. As
11 promised, the Defence has filed responses to three Prosecutor's
12 submissions, so I believe that there are no pending replies to any
13 Prosecutor's submissions.
14 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you very much. We appreciate that.
15 Mr. Vanderpuye, please carry on.
16 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. President.
17 Q. Welcome back, Mr. Blaszczyk. I had asked you before whether or
18 not the OTP or the ICTY was involved in the execution of the search of
19 Mr. Pecanac, as you may recall. Can you tell us, was the search
20 undertaken as a result of a request by the OTP to search Mr. Pecanac?
21 A. Yes, the search was undertaken as a result of a request of OTP.
22 But physically OTP members did not participate in the search.
23 Q. And do you recall, roughly, when that request was made relative
24 to when the search was actually carried out? About how long in advance
25 was it?
1 A. As far as I remember, it was -- we requested for the search about
2 two weeks before the search was actually conducted.
3 Q. I'd like to show you 65 ter 7536, but before I do, let me ask
4 leave of the Trial Chamber to add this document to the Prosecution's
5 65 ter list.
6 MR. VANDERPUYE: I would note, Mr. President, also, the document
7 wasn't on the exhibit list that I provided Mr. Gajic, but I've asked for
8 leave to add it because I think it's quite responsive to the question
9 that was put by His Honourable Judge Mindua concerning or bearing upon
10 the significance of Mr. Pecanac's or the lack thereof of his signature on
11 the document that I showed previously.
12 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Tolimir, can I take it again that there is no
13 objection to add this document to the 65 ter exhibit list?
14 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President. You're
16 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Leave is granted.
17 Mr. Vanderpuye, please carry on.
18 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. President.
19 Q. If I can just show you this document very briefly, Mr. Blaszczyk.
20 There we have it. Do you recognise this document?
21 A. Yes, I do.
22 Q. And can you tell us what -- what it is?
23 A. This is a record of interview conducted by Judge Milan Dilparic
24 with Dragomir Pecanac regarding the seized documents. And in this
25 interview one investigator and one lawyer from OTP also took the part,
1 but mostly judge asked the question of Mr. Dragomir Pecanac. This
2 interview was conducted on 31st March, 2010, also on our request.
3 Q. What I'd like to show you, if we could just --
4 MR. VANDERPUYE: If we could just move briefly to page 7 in the
5 English, and I think the corresponding page in the B/C/S will be page --
6 page 5. Page 6 in the B/C/S, sorry. The next one.
7 And here -- we can see here, specifically, that Mr. Pecanac
8 indicates here that he submitted everything that he had, referring to the
9 period from 2nd December 2009 through 12 December 2010 following the
10 search that occurred.
11 And if we could go to page 11 in the English and page 9, I
12 believe, in the B/C/S.
13 Q. He refers also to some documents, some 25 items. Do you see that
14 at the top of the screen there, Mr. Blaszczyk?
15 A. Yes, I do.
16 Q. And do you know what he's referring to? Are those the items you
17 referred to in -- that he turned over in March, or are these other items?
18 A. No. In here Mr. Pecanac's referring to the items handed over by
19 him on the 4th of March, 2010, to Serbian MUP.
20 Q. Are these -- these are separate items than the ones that were the
21 result of the search in December of 2009; is that correct?
22 A. Yes, this is correct. They are different items, not the same
23 which were seized on the 2nd December.
24 Q. And did the OTP receive these items as well?
25 A. Yes, we did.
1 Q. Okay.
2 MR. VANDERPUYE: I won't need this on the screen at the moment,
3 and I'm not planning to tender it, unless the Trial Chamber would like to
4 receive it.
5 Q. And let me ask you a couple of questions about -- about the
7 First, in terms of the material that was received as a result of
8 the search, can you tell us what form that was in?
9 A. First, we received this material in the form of DVDs or CDs,
10 relevant DVDs, exactly relevant DVDs, and with a scanned document or a
11 copy of the document seized from Mr. Pecanac on the 2nd December 2009.
12 And then, I think, in March we received also one DVD containing material
13 from the hard drive or the computer belonged to Mr. Pecanac and also
14 seized during the search conducted on the 2nd December, 2009.
15 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Blaszczyk, you said you received a certain
16 number of DVDs. How many did you say?
17 THE WITNESS: Your Honour, all together there was -- there were
18 11 DVDs.
19 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you. That was what I wanted to have on the
21 MR. VANDERPUYE:
22 Q. Was this material received electronically, that is, in the form
23 of digital data, as in DVDs, as well as physical copies, hard copies, of
24 the documents?
25 A. If we are referring to documents or materials seized from
1 Mr. Pecanac, we received this material in electronical [sic] copy.
2 Q. All right. Can you tell us, in terms of the chain of custody,
3 what was done with that material once it was received? First, let's
4 start with where it was received.
5 A. The first material was handed over to our field office in
6 Belgrade, ICTY field office. And then from ICTY field office, material
7 was taken to The Hague by one of the investigators. And a team dealing
8 with this particular case received this material just the following day
9 or the day after.
10 Q. And when the material was received, was it processed in
11 accordance with the protocol that you previously testified to?
12 A. The material we received, in fact, was -- we started the process
13 here in ICTY, in The Hague, after fall -- yeah. Let me explain,
14 Your Honour, because when we started to review the material received from
15 Belgrade field office, at one point we discovered that this material
16 contains also quite sensitive material. I mean, privileged Defence
17 material, and we immediately - after discovering this issue - we informed
18 our lawyers from our team that such material exists in these DVDs or CDs
19 and immediately we were ordered -- we were told to stop reviewing
20 material. And I believe it was Mr. McCloskey who set up the protocol for
21 us which we should follow in our just reviewing, in future, this
23 And following this protocol, we were also tasked to review the
24 material to index the material, but we should skip all the material which
25 would have been potential Defence material.
1 Q. Was the -- was the material itself documented, MFI'd, given an
2 index number or an ERN number?
3 A. Yes. As I said, receiving these 11 DVDs, we selected the
4 material which could be potential evidence for us and also selected these
5 privileged material, potential Defence material. We put in this material
6 for -- to another DVD, but we processed the material without this
7 potential privileged material, and we MFI'd this material and we
8 submitted to Evidence Unit. It was scanned. In following process, it
9 was scanned and put in the system.
10 Q. When you say it was scanned, I take it you are referring to the
11 digital data that was on the CDs?
12 A. Yes, it's correct.
13 Q. So that material would have been printed out; is that right?
14 A. It could be printed out because Evidence Unit has little bit -- I
15 would say, you know, we would policy that material. We should print out
16 the material and submit them in hard copies. The material was printed
17 out, as far as I remember, at that time from these 11 DVDs we received.
18 Q. All right. And just bear with me one moment.
19 A. Or ...
20 Q. I'm sorry, you were going to continue?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Go ahead.
23 A. Yes. This is my recollection, but I can be wrong: It is
24 possibility that because of the quality of material we ask evidence unit
25 just to electronically stamp the material from DVDs, but right now I am
1 not quite sure.
2 Q. And what kind of material, digital material, is this, were these
3 text files, were these photograph files, were they PDFs, or a mix of that
4 kind of media?
5 A. This material -- I mean, the DVDs contains various material. It
6 was PDF files, photographs, scanned documents, photographed documents,
7 this type of material.
8 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. --
9 THE WITNESS: And Word -- Word -- sorry, Your Honour.
10 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Please continue.
11 THE WITNESS: And Word documents as well.
12 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Vanderpuye, please look at the record,
13 page 42, line 11, the first word. I didn't hear you saying this word.
14 Please correct it. What did you say?
15 MR. VANDERPUYE: I think I said digital data, if that's --
16 JUDGE FLUEGGE: That is what I recall.
17 MR. VANDERPUYE: Yes, that's -- thank you, Mr. President.
18 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you. Please continue.
19 MR. VANDERPUYE:
20 Q. If I could show you 65 ter 7535.
21 MR. VANDERPUYE: Mr. President, this is another document that
22 bears on the -- the nature of the material that was received but was not
23 part of the Prosecution's original 65 ter exhibit list.
24 JUDGE FLUEGGE: To shorten the procedure, if there would be an
25 objection, I think Mr. Tolimir would raise his hand. There is no
1 objection, therefore it will be -- leave is granted to add it to the
2 65 ter exhibit list.
3 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. President. I think we have it on
4 the screen now.
5 Q. And this is a document from the Ministry of the Interior, from
6 Republic of Serbia. Are you familiar with this document, Mr. Blaszczyk?
7 A. Yes, I do. I've seen this document.
8 Q. Can you tell us what it relates to?
9 A. This is a document related to the hard drive; in fact, to the
10 contents of the hard drive seized from Mr. Pecanac in December 2009.
11 Q. All right. Can you tell us, in terms of the material that was
12 seized, was all of the material in the form - that is the digital form -
13 the forms that you've indicated previously?
14 A. Yes, this material was in digital form.
15 Q. And were any of these forms -- any of these -- this media
16 recovered from deleted files, or were they all files that were existing
17 immediately on the hard drive itself?
18 A. If you look at the analyst number, special unit of Serbian MUP,
19 some of the files were recovered from deleted files.
20 Q. And were those files among the files that were printed and
21 processed here at the ICTY?
22 A. If you mean these deleted files, I don't think so because most of
23 the deleted files - it was Word files - related, rather, to the Defence,
24 as far as I remember.
25 Q. And when you say "related to the Defence," you're referring to
1 the potentially privileged materials?
2 A. Yes, this is correct. We tried to avoid to read these documents,
3 and we didn't process this stuff.
4 Q. All right.
5 MR. VANDERPUYE: If we could go to page 2 of this document.
6 Q. Can you tell us what we have here?
7 A. Here we have also Serbian MUP document hard disk analysis report.
8 Q. And is this what you were referring to just a moment ago?
9 A. Yes, this is correct. More information of this analysis, I
10 believe, is on the following page.
11 MR. VANDERPUYE: If we could take a look at the next page,
13 Q. And here we can see that it is signed by a special police
14 officer, and it indicates, as you testified a moment ago, that there were
15 numerous Word documents that had been found. And it indicates also --
16 THE INTERPRETER: Mr. Vanderpuye, kindly speak into the
17 microphone. Thank you.
18 MR. VANDERPUYE:
19 Q. It indicates also that some of them had been overwritten.
20 A. Yes, this is correct.
21 Q. Okay. But it also indicates that they could be reopened; is that
23 A. Yeah, this is correct. They could be reopened using the special
25 Q. All right.
1 MR. VANDERPUYE: Mr. President, I would like to tender this
2 document as well.
3 JUDGE FLUEGGE: It will be received.
4 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, 65 ter document 7535 shall be
5 assigned Exhibit P2599. Thank you, Your Honours.
6 MR. VANDERPUYE:
7 Q. Now, what Id like to take you to or ask you about, Mr. Blaszczyk,
8 is, have you had a chance to review these documents, that is, some of the
9 documents that were recovered during this search, and compare them
10 against other documents in the collections of the Office of the
11 Prosecutor relevant to this particular case?
12 A. Yes, Your Honour. I had a chance to review the contents of this
13 drive, hard drive, and also the contents of the previous CDs or DVDs, and
14 especially hard drive contains a lot of documents in different format.
15 It was PDF document -- all together it was about 11.000 [Realtime
16 transcript read in error "1100"] documents in this hard drive, including
17 about, as far as I remember, about 3.000 JPEG files and about 3.000 PDF
18 files. Most -- we realised that most of these especially JPEG files,
19 which depicted the scanned document or photographed documents from the
20 war period, we never seen before.
21 We tried to -- I will try to explain the situation, because, as I
22 said, there was about 3.000 JPEG files of the document. In fact, one
23 JPEG file was one page of the document, and these JPEG files or the pages
24 were not organised together. We had to find a way how to put it
25 together, how to collect these pieces together.
1 For example, if document has about five pages, it could be five
2 different JPEG files. Unfortunately, we had problem to -- in fact,
3 logistical problem to went through all these files and just to find the
4 proper page belonging to the proper document. But we managed. Finally
5 we did it. And finally, I believe it was October that we finished this
7 Q. Having concluded the process, Mr. Blaszczyk, can you give us an
8 estimate of approximately how many -- I think you have already. You said
9 there were about 1100 [sic] documents that were found in this material;
10 is that right?
11 A. I think there were more documents. I mean more files. But, yes,
12 about -- quite big collection.
13 Q. Okay. Let me show you 65 ter 7505, which is a document we have
14 on our 65 ter list, and ask you if you recognise it. Now, you may notice
15 at the top of the English translation of this document there are remarks
16 that don't appear on the B/C/S.
17 And if we go to the very top so we can all see, you will see that
18 it's a translation of a document with an ERN number of 0529-7001. And on
19 the left of the screen we can see a document with an ERN number of
20 0704-8796. Have you had a chance to compare this document, that is, the
21 B/C/S document on the left, with the original document of which -- to
22 which this English translation corresponds?
23 A. Yes, yes, I had opportunity to review these two documents, to
24 compare these two documents. It's more or less the same documents, but
25 the documents we see in original language in B/C/S, on the left-hand side
1 of this monitor, this is documents recovered from hard drive of
2 Mr. Pecanac's computer.
3 Q. How do you know that?
4 A. I remember -- first, I remember this document, and then it's
5 quiet easy for me because I, looking at the ERN number, I see that this
6 is the range which documents from hard drive of Mr. Pecanac were Pecanac
8 Q. This is of the ERN range beginning with 0704?
9 A. Yes, it's correct. I think it was even before 0703, but
10 following 0704.
11 Q. And you've indicated that this was from the hard drive.
12 A. Yes, yes, it's correct. Looking at the ERN number, yes.
13 Q. All right.
14 MR. VANDERPUYE: If we go, just briefly, to the next page in --
15 well, the B/C/S, and we can go to the last page, I suppose, in the
16 English, page 3.
17 Q. Can you tell us about what we have here?
18 A. On the bottom of this page, I am referring to this original page,
19 the quality is maybe not the best one, but we see with the signature -- I
20 believe this is signature of Mr. Pecanac, and on the right-hand side we
21 see a red stamp. This red stamp, according to my knowledge, according to
22 information I got, this is stamp used in the Main Staff of Army of
23 Republika Srpska in Crna Rijeka, and -- I think in Crna Rijeka. Why I
24 came to this conclusion, because -- yes.
25 I interviewed personally one man who worked in the Crna Rijeka
1 compound as cryptographer. He described the stamp as used by them when
2 they were processing documents received or sent. His name is
3 Dragan Stokic. And also another cryptographer from the same unit, his
4 unit, who served in Crna Rijeka confirmed that it was the stamp and the
5 way how they processed the documents.
6 Q. All right. What I'd like to do, just so that we can show the
7 Trial Chamber, very briefly, is to pull up the B/C/S version of this
8 document -- of the translation we see here on the right.
9 MR. VANDERPUYE: And I believe that the ERN number for that is --
10 I think it's 5308, but just give me one second. I'm sorry, it's 3803,
11 65 ter 3803.
12 Yes, I'd like the B/C/S page to stay on the screen, that's for
13 65 ter 7505. And if we could just go to the first page of the B/C/S on
14 the left.
15 Q. All right. And we can see, first, a couple of very obvious
16 differences. One is the type.
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Can you comment on that, please.
19 A. Yes, it's visible here that these documents from my left-hand
20 side is -- was typed with -- using a type writer. And documents on my
21 right-hand side was printed out from the teleprinter.
22 If I can, Your Honour, I would like to comment something.
23 I referred just a few second or few minutes ago to one of the
24 cryptographer I interviewed personally, and he explained me the procedure
25 how they send the documents. He says that they used to receive documents
1 prepared by the office of the Army of Republika Srpska from the
2 Main Staff, it could be handwritten documents and could be also documents
3 typed on the typewriter. They're supposed to receive these documents,
4 they're supposed to put the stamp over their documents when these
5 documents were received and sent out to the recipients. On the
6 right-hand side, I see that this is probably document received from one
7 of the recipients mentioned here.
8 Q. We can also see in the photocopy of the document in the B/C/S on
9 the right-hand-side screen, that is, of 65 ter 3803, an indication, a
10 number, 5632. And -- but we don't see that on the copy on the left-hand
11 side of the screen, which is 65 ter 7505.
12 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Vanderpuye, could you please repeat the
13 number which you read into the record because it is not properly
15 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. President. It was 65 ter 3803.
16 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you.
17 MR. VANDERPUYE:
18 Q. And here we can see some handwritten notes on either of these
19 documents that are not reflected in the other.
20 A. Yes, it's correct.
21 Q. And how does that occur, to your understanding, or how can you
22 explain that?
23 A. Because, as I said, you know, these documents from the left-hand
24 side was sent from the Main Staff, and the document on the right-hand
25 side was received by one of the recipients. I think it is the
1 1st Podrinje Light Infantry Brigade as -- if I see correctly.
2 MR. VANDERPUYE: If we can go to the second page, please, of both
4 Q. You will see that the one on the left bears two stamps, a blue
5 stamp and a red stamp; and the one on the right bears no stamp. Now,
6 you've indicated that you had a conversation with a cryptographer who
7 explained the process, and does that relate to the red stamp or the blue
8 stamp that appears on the document on the left, 65 ter 7505?
9 A. No, this relates to the red stamp on the right-hand side.
10 Q. And what is your understanding, if any, of the blue stamp on
11 the -- near the signature on the document?
12 A. I think this is stamp of military post.
13 Q. Okay. And having reviewed these two documents, did you notice
14 any discrepancies or differences, I should say, in the text of the
15 document itself?
16 A. No, in the text nothing except the signature. We have here a
17 type -- information that this document was to type -- on the left, on
18 this left document, left-hand-side documents, we see that this document
19 was signed for Colonel Zdravko Tolimir, and signature -- I believe this
20 is signature of Dragomir Pecanac. And on the right-hand-side document,
21 we see only typed name of Colonel Zdravko Tolimir. We don't have a
23 Q. Beneath the signature we can see what appear to be a set of
24 initials, DP/LJS, and we see that also on the typewritten document. Did
25 you speak to the cryptographer about that, or what is your understanding
1 of what that signifies?
2 A. I believe this is signature of the people who draft this
3 document. And other signature -- sorry, initials, this is initials of
4 the man who typed over this document.
5 Q. All right. Thank you.
6 MR. VANDERPUYE: Let me move to a different document.
7 Mr. President, I would like --
8 THE WITNESS: But --
9 MR. VANDERPUYE: -- to tender these documents.
10 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Blaszczyk, what do you think does "DP"
12 THE WITNESS: I think this is the initials of the man, but I
13 don't know which one. First, who draft this document; and second one
14 should be that one who typed this document.
15 JUDGE FLUEGGE: But you don't know whom it stands for?
16 THE WITNESS: No. Off the top of my head, no, I don't remember.
17 I should compare the list of the people who used to work for this organ.
18 Dragan -- DP could be Dragan -- Dragomir Pecanac.
19 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you. Both documents will be received.
20 First, 65 ter 705. I correct myself: 65 ter 7505.
21 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, 65 ter document 7505 shall be
22 assigned Exhibit P2600.
23 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Then the other document.
24 THE REGISTRAR: And 65 ter document 3803 shall be assigned
25 Exhibit P2601. Thank you, Your Honours.
1 MR. VANDERPUYE:
2 Q. I would like to show you, Mr. Blaszczyk, 65 ter 7506 [Realtime
3 transcript read in error "7056"].
4 MR. VANDERPUYE: What I would like to do is to go to the second
5 page in the B/C/S, which corresponds to the translation.
6 Q. Do you recognise this document?
7 A. Yes, I do.
8 Q. Okay. And is this a document that was part of the collection of
9 documents that were seized from Mr. Pecanac?
10 A. Yes, this is correct. This is document -- one of the documents
11 from the Pecanac collection, but I see, looking at this ERN number, of
12 course, that these documents was -- was on CD we received first
13 from these relevant CDs.
14 Q. And so those CDs, I take it, were processed separately from the
15 documents that have an ERN in the range of 0703 through 0704, beginning
16 with those numbers?
17 A. Yes, this is correct. The CD, these relevant CDs, were
18 processed; I believe it was finished by end of January 2010. But with
19 hard drive we had to work until October 2010.
20 Q. And so the documents that were on the CD are denoted in the
21 ERN range 0554. Is that how you know what's what?
22 A. Yes, this is correct. And I just -- I recognised the ERN range.
23 Q. Okay.
24 MR. VANDERPUYE: What I'd like to do is to pull up 65 ter 750 --
25 7506 - is that what I have? - 7525, I'm sorry. And I would like to keep
1 the B/C/S of 7506 up on the screen so that we can compare them.
2 JUDGE FLUEGGE: I think on page 52, line 15, it should read
3 65 ter 7506.
4 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. President.
5 Q. Have you had a chance to compare these two documents,
6 Mr. Blaszczyk?
7 A. Yes, I compared these two documents. As I said, these documents
8 on the left-hand side, this is documents from Pecanac collection. But
9 looking at this document from my right-hand side, I see this is documents
10 from so-called Drina Corps collection. I testified about this collection
11 some time ago.
12 Q. And in terms of the content of these two documents, have you had
13 a chance to review that? And if you have, are they the same?
14 A. Yes, I had the chance to review these documents and the contents
15 is the same.
16 Q. What I'd like to do is to take you to the last page of both of
17 these documents.
18 MR. VANDERPUYE: That should be page 7 in the B/C/S on the left,
19 that is, 65 ter 7 -- sorry, 7506. And then it should be page 2 on the
20 right-hand, which is 7525.
21 Q. And what can you tell us about this, here?
22 A. As we see, this left-hand-side document has been signed by
23 military prosecutor Lieutenant Colonel Nebojsa Supic. And this document
24 on the right-hand side is not signed, it's also typed, military
25 prosecutor Lieutenant Colonel Nebojsa Supic, but it's not signed, these
1 documents, by him. I don't see clearly who signed the other one, I mean
2 the stamp and the signature on the left-hand side of document from
3 Drina Corps collection.
4 Q. We can also see that -- well, the document on the right, 7525,
5 bears two signatures, and on the left there appears to be only one. And
6 is that because -- well, if you're able, can you explain how that is or
7 why that is?
8 A. I believe this document, the second one with two signatures, one
9 typed and another one typed also and a signature, was prepared -- in
10 fact, it was just copy of this previous documents, and this is why these
11 two people signed this document.
12 Q. Okay. Lastly, you may have noticed that the script is actually
13 different between the two documents; that is, one being in the Cyrillic
14 script and the other being in the Latinic script.
15 A. Yes, this is correct, but the contents is the same.
16 Q. Okay. And were -- how were you able to make that comparison?
17 A. I just compared what is written here.
18 Q. Okay.
19 MR. VANDERPUYE: Mr. President, I would like to tender these
20 documents as well.
21 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Yes, both -- first Mr. Gajic.
22 MR. GAJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, I think for the sake
23 of clarification it would be perhaps necessary for the Trial Chamber and
24 maybe even the witness to see the translation of 7525, the last page,
25 where two names are indicated, one signature, one stamp; and on the
1 right-hand side, there is only a name. I think that will clear up a lot
2 of things.
3 JUDGE FLUEGGE: We could have, in addition to the two B/C/S
4 versions, the English translation on the screen. The last page of it,
6 Mr. Vanderpuye, do you want to put a question in relation to the
7 English translation to the witness?
8 MR. VANDERPUYE: I suppose I will. Thank you, Mr. President.
9 Q. Have you seen this particular designation before, Mr. Blaszczyk,
10 that is, the certification of the -- of the original?
11 A. Yes, yes. This is translation of these document from
12 Drina Corps collection.
13 Q. Okay.
14 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Vanderpuye, before you continue, I have to
15 interrupt for a moment. I was informed that the Court Usher who is with
16 us today, Ms. Meriem Naili, will leave the Tribunal and it's her last day
17 with us here in the courtroom. On behalf of all those present, I would
18 like to thank her for her contribution for our common work and wish you
19 all the best, Ms. Naili, for your future career and personally all the
21 Mr. Vanderpuye, please carry on.
22 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. President.
23 Q. Having seen these certification, does this change your view as to
24 the parity in comparing these two documents?
25 A. I would say that this is, document on the left-hand side, signed
1 only by -- signed by army prosecutor is the original one, and on the
2 right-hand side I think we have translation -- we have translation here.
3 This is a certified copy of the original we see on the left-hand side.
4 Q. I would like to tender these documents. I'm not sure if they've
5 been received yet. I don't think so.
6 JUDGE FLUEGGE: No, not yet. 65 ter 7506 will be received.
7 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P2602. Thank you, Your Honours.
8 JUDGE FLUEGGE: And also 65 ter 7525.
9 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P2603. Thank you, Your Honours.
10 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Vanderpuye.
11 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. President.
12 Q. I'd like to show you now, Mr. Blaszczyk, if I could, 65 ter 7508.
13 This is a document that we can see here from the Ministry of Interior
14 Republika Srpska, dated 18 July 1995, from Deputy Minister
15 Tomislav Kovac, and it concerns the sort of distribution of work between
16 military police and MUP civilian police concerning check-points in the
17 republic. Have you had a chance to review this document?
18 A. Yes, I had.
19 Q. And what can you tell us about it in terms of its form and
20 content and whether or not you've compared it to any other documents in
21 the collections of the Office of the Prosecutor?
22 A. This is document signed by minister of -- Deputy Minister
23 of Interior Tomislav Kovac. I am referring to the document on the
24 left-hand side, the original one. And on the top of these documents, we
25 have handwritings here, and signature and initials. As I see here, and I
1 believe the initials on the left side with -- used by black pen are
2 initials of -- I believe that they are initials of Colonel Beara, and
3 initials on the right side with blue pen, we see here blue pen and also
4 handwritings, I believe this is handwritings and initials of
5 General Tolimir.
6 Q. Let me ask you a couple of questions. First, how do you know or
7 what makes you think that the initials in the black pen at the top of the
8 screen, under the lettering A/A, that those are the initials of
9 Ljubisa Beara, Colonel Ljubisa Beara?
10 A. As I said before, I had opportunity to review a lot of documents,
11 and I met these initials before. And I believe this is Colonel Beara
13 Q. And you referred to the initials of General Tolimir as well, and
14 you've indicated that those initials are in the blue pen on the
15 right-hand side of the screen.
16 A. Yeah, this is correct. I refer to the initials now very visible
17 on the screen as the initials of General Tolimir and his handwriting as
18 well. I would like to mention that his initials and these initials, not
19 particularly from this document, from other documents and handwritings,
20 have been shown to various witnesses and they recognise handwritings and
21 they believe also that the handwritings and initials are initials and
22 handwritings of General Tolimir.
23 Q. What I would like to show you --
24 MR. VANDERPUYE: And if we could display it side by -- well,
25 actually, there's a better idea. Let's go down to the bottom of the
2 Q. And I want to show you the stamp and signature here. Are you
3 familiar with this particular signature?
4 A. I am not very familiar with signature, but I believe that
5 reflects the typed name here, it being Tomislav Kovac signature.
6 Q. All right. And let me show you now also 65 ter 2590.
7 MR. VANDERPUYE: I would like to have the B/C/S only in e-court.
8 Just the B/C/S -- side by side with the B/C/S for 65 ter 7508. The
9 number should be 2590.
10 All right. I need to correct myself. It should be 65 ter 7526,
11 and I'm comparing it against 65 ter 7508. I apologise. Thanks. We have
12 it now. And if we could just make the one on the left a little bit
13 smaller so we can compare them -- well, we'll leave it -- let's leave it
14 like it is.
15 Q. Here you can see the signatures. And they appear to be similar
16 but different. Are you able to explain -- explain that?
17 A. I would try, at least, Your Honour. On the document from the
18 left-hand side, we see the stamp of -- the stamp of minister of interior
19 of RS and signature -- what I believe is signature of Tomislav Kovac,
20 deputy minister. And if we look at the document -- and this document
21 was -- this is from Pecanac collection. If you look at the document form
22 the right-hand side on the screen here, I see this document, I compared
23 the ERN number with this document - I know that it was seized in one of
24 the police station, I believe, in Banja Luka some time ago - and this is
25 exactly the same document -- the copy of the same document of the -- I
1 would say an original of the -- which we have on the left-hand side. And
2 regarding the signature, it looks similar like Tomo Kovac signature,
3 Tomislav Kovac's signature, but I don't see a stamp here. Whether it has
4 been signed by him later on, or the copy, I have no explanation. But
5 definitely this document was seized from MUP building in, I think, in
6 Banja Luka some time ago.
7 Q. When you say that it's an exact copy of -- well, they are exact
8 copies of one another, you're referring to the typewritten text in
9 addition to the handwritten text or just the typewritten text?
10 A. No, I'm referring to typewritten text. You know, if you look at
11 the number of these documents, what is mentioned here is also the same
12 one, it's P/92/95. Comparing the text, it's exactly the same one. But
13 I'm referring to typewritten texts, not handwritings.
14 Q. All right. I would like to move to a different document.
15 MR. VANDERPUYE: And, Mr. President, I would like to tender both
16 of these documents as well.
17 JUDGE FLUEGGE: 65 ter 7508 will be received.
18 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P2604. Thank you.
19 JUDGE FLUEGGE: As well as 65 ter 7526.
20 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P2605. Thank you.
21 MR. VANDERPUYE: Just bear with me one second.
22 Q. I would like to show you 65 ter 7510. Here we can see we have a
23 document from the 1st Podrinje Light Infantry Brigade, and it says the
24 organ for security and intelligence, and it's directed to the Main Staff,
25 among other units. The security and intelligence administration of the
1 Main Staff.
2 If we go to the last page, the second page of both documents,
3 we'll see that it's issued under the name of Zoran Carkic, the chief of
4 security for the brigade. In part, if we go to page 1 of this document,
5 you'll see that it talks about or refers to Muslim forces in Zepa that
6 have been crushed into small or large groups now trying to break the
7 encirclement in all directions. And that's basically in the first
8 paragraph following the indication of movement of enemies -- of the enemy
9 that were crushed.
10 If we go to page 2, we will see a reference there to a number of
11 men that have surrendered to the VJ and the Serbian MUP. It indicates
12 that a number of them had been registered in the sector of Crni Potok and
13 they were attempting to cross over the right bank.
14 First, can you tell us, in context, what this particular document
16 A. This is kind of intelligence report about the Muslim population
17 or Muslim forces near Zepa or Zepa enclave. This document was prepared
18 by the head of security organ from Rogatica Brigade,
19 Captain Zoran Carkic, and was sent by him also to security department and
20 intelligence department of the main headquarters of Army of
21 Republika Srpska. As we see here on the document, there is a stamp, also
22 described by the people who are working in communication, that the stamp
23 used in the Main Staff. And referring to this other purple stamp, the
24 colour is visible here.
25 Q. And were you able to compare the content of this document, that
1 is, its subject matter, to any other material independent of the material
2 from the Pecanac collection?
3 A. Yes, I believe I -- yes, I did.
4 Q. Just before we get there, I will note just that the ERN range on
5 this document falls within the range starting with 0704. Does that
6 correspond to the material that was processed as part of the Pecanac
8 A. Yeah, this is correct. This is material that is part of the
9 Pecanac collection. By -- but the material from this document is --
10 comes from his computer, his hard drive.
11 Q. Let me show you P345.
12 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Vanderpuye, are you tendering the last
14 MR. VANDERPUYE: I will tender it.
15 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Later.
16 MR. VANDERPUYE: I just wanted to --
17 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Yes.
18 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. President.
19 THE REGISTRAR: This confidential document shouldn't be
20 broadcast. Thank you.
21 MR. VANDERPUYE: All right. We have it.
22 Q. Do you recognise what we have here on the screen, Mr. Blaszczyk?
23 A. Yes, I do. This is intercept of the conversation between VRS
24 officer and officers from the Serbian side, VJ officer, and also later on
25 this is also conversation between Colonel Ljubisa Beara and officer from
1 VJ, I believe.
2 Q. At the very bottom of the screen we can see J, who is designated
3 as Jevtic, saying to S:
4 "We are catching some, and the MUP is too."
5 Just before that, a few lines before that, you see S saying:
6 "Listen, why do you let these Turks swim towards you?"
7 J says: "They," as the interpreters indicate here, "float, and
8 let them go on."
9 Then he says: "Listen, we have some information that they are
10 relocating across the river, man, not swimming."
11 Does this correspond with your understanding of the circumstances
12 or the events that are recorded in the intelligence report that is signed
13 by Zoran Carkic, 65 ter 7510 that I just showed you?
14 A. Yes, this corresponds to Zoran Carkic report or information,
15 intelligence information about Muslim population from Zepa, that they are
16 trying to cross the river.
17 MR. VANDERPUYE: And if we could just go to the second page in
18 the English and in the B/C/S.
19 Q. We can see -- wait a minute. Third page, I'm sorry, in the
20 English. Thanks. Right at the top of the page, here, we can see that
21 Beara participates in this conversation, as you had previously indicated;
23 A. Yes, this is correct. This is Beara talking to Jevtic.
24 Q. Okay.
25 MR. VANDERPUYE: Mr. President, with that, I would like to tender
1 65 ter 7510.
2 JUDGE FLUEGGE: That will be received.
3 THE REGISTRAR: 65 ter document 7510 shall be assigned
4 Exhibit P2606. Thank you, Your Honours.
5 MR. VANDERPUYE:
6 Q. All right. Mr. Blaszczyk, I would like to show you a couple of
7 other documents. Let me show you 65 ter 6183.
8 JUDGE FLUEGGE: I just note: I don't find it on the list of
9 documents to be used during your examination, Mr. Vanderpuye.
10 MR. VANDERPUYE: Yes, Mr. President. I've been alerted to that.
11 If you could just bear with me for one second, I will find the correct
12 number. It's 4183. I apologise for that, Mr. President.
13 Q. Okay. Do you recognise this document, Mr. Blaszczyk?
14 A. Yes, yes. This is combat order from the Drina Corps collection
16 Q. What I'd like to show you, and if we could compare this, the
17 B/C/S versions of it, is 65 ter 7528. And what can you tell us about
18 65 ter 7528? Where is it from?
19 A. You are referring to this document on the right-hand side?
20 Q. Yes, sir.
21 A. Could you go up a little bit? I believe this is document from
22 the Pecanac collection, but I would like to check -- yes. Looking at the
23 ERN number, I recognise this document as being from Pecanac collection,
25 Q. Is this from the hard drive or from the CD?
1 A. No, this is from the hard drive.
2 Q. All right.
3 A. And in fact this is copy of the same document we see on the
4 left-hand side here, except handwritten text from the document from
5 Pecanac collection is named Proboj, which is code-name of the operation,
6 sweep operation, I think, in this area.
7 MR. VANDERPUYE: If we could just go to the last page, it should
8 be page 6, I think, in both documents.
9 Q. We can see here a signature on the B/C/S. Can you recognise the
11 A. I believe this is signature of the commander at that time of
12 Drina Corps, General Milenko Zivanovic, but I think he was colonel at
13 that time. I am not sure.
14 Q. And just so that we are clear, we are looking right now at
15 65 ter 4183. And now I see we've got -- we've got 7528 up on the
16 right-hand side of the screen so we can compare the two signatures.
17 And does this change or confirm your opinion that this is a copy?
18 A. It confirms my opinion. This is a copy.
19 MR. VANDERPUYE: Mr. President, I would like to tender both of
20 these documents.
21 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Yes, first 65 ter 4183.
22 THE REGISTRAR: Shall be assigned Exhibit P2607. Thank you.
23 JUDGE FLUEGGE: As well as 65 ter 7528.
24 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P2608. Thank you.
25 MR. VANDERPUYE:
1 Q. And I'd like to show you just a couple of other documents. This
2 one is 65 ter 7529. All right. I think we'll need the English
3 translation we have. You see this is a 13 July 1995 report from the
4 Main Staff of Republika Srpska. And have you had a chance to compare
5 this document to other material within the collections of the OTP?
6 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Gajic.
7 MR. GAJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, Mr. Vanderpuye said
8 that the document is dated 13 July. I believe that he misspoke, because
9 the date on the document is 13 January 1995.
10 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. Gajic. That is correct. I did
11 misspeak. 13 January 1995.
12 THE WITNESS: Yes, I had opportunity to review these documents
13 and also corroborating material.
14 MR. VANDERPUYE:
15 Q. Okay. What I would like to do is what I've been doing, which is
16 to show 65 ter 4866, which is the B/C/S version of a document.
17 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Could you please repeat the number; it's not
18 recorded correctly.
19 MR. VANDERPUYE: It should be 4866.
20 Q. Have you had a chance to compare these two documents?
21 A. Yes, I had a chance. This is exactly the same contents of these
23 Q. I note that the type is different, type face.
24 A. Yes, of course, the type is different.
25 Q. And if we go to the second page of both documents, we see now
1 another stamp, different from the red and the blue one we discussed
2 earlier. Can you tell us about that one?
3 A. You are referring to which document, sorry?
4 Q. I'm sorry, the document on the right of the screen, 65 ter 4866,
5 bears a stamp that is different than the document on the right-hand [sic]
6 side of the screen which is 65 ter 7529.
7 A. Yes. This is different stamp used by the subordinated unit of
8 the VRS.
9 Q. And then we have a signature on the document 7529. That's the
10 document from the Pecanac collection. Are you familiar with that
12 A. Yes, this is signature of General Ratko Mladic.
13 Q. And comparing the text of these two documents, did you find any
14 differences in the content?
15 A. No, the content is the same.
16 Q. Okay.
17 MR. VANDERPUYE: Mr. President, I would tender these two
18 documents as well.
19 JUDGE FLUEGGE: First, leave is granted to add 65 ter 7529 to
20 your 65 ter exhibit list, and it will be received.
21 THE REGISTRAR: 65 ter document 7529 shall be assigned
22 Exhibit P2609.
23 JUDGE FLUEGGE: And then 65 ter 4866 will be received as well.
24 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P2610. Thank you.
25 MR. VANDERPUYE:
1 Q. I would like to show you 65 ter 7530.
2 JUDGE FLUEGGE: I take it, again, that there is no objection to
3 add it to the exhibit list; therefore, leave is granted to do that.
4 Mr. Gajic.
5 MR. GAJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, maybe I could be of
6 some assistance. There seems to be a problem. I can't find the document
7 in e-court myself. It has either not been released or it has not been
8 downloaded -- or uploaded, rather.
9 MR. VANDERPUYE: Sorry, there appears to be an anomaly. It's
10 either -- Mr. Gajic is right, it doesn't seem to be available. But that
11 won't stop me. I'll go to another document, if I may, Mr. President.
12 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Yes.
13 MR. VANDERPUYE: Let's try with 65 ter 7531.
14 Q. Do you recognise this document, Mr. Blaszczyk?
15 A. Yes, this is document from Pecanac collection, from his hard
17 Q. And how do you know that?
18 A. I see the ERN number. This is an ERN range we stamp these
19 documents from -- from the hard drive.
20 Q. All right. And we can see here that it refers to Krivaja 95, as
21 we can see denoted at the top. It has a copy number indicated there,
22 which maybe we can blow up. It's on the right-hand side of the screen.
23 Are you able to read that?
24 A. It's very hardly, but --
25 Q. It looks like it says "Primerak."
1 A. Yeah.
2 Q. Okay. Were you able to compare that against any other document
3 in the possession of the Office of the Prosecutor?
4 A. Yes, I compared these documents with other copy of Krivaja 95
6 MR. VANDERPUYE: If we could once again display in the B/C/S
7 version side by side P1202.
8 Q. Have you had a chance to compare these two documents?
9 A. Yes, yes, I had. And the same document with the same copy
11 Q. And having compared them, can you say whether or not they are
12 photocopies or they are identical or different?
13 A. They are identical. But this document on the right-hand side
14 we -- I think we received from, if I am correct, from Ministry of Defence
15 of RS.
16 Q. And you're able to tell that because of the ERN range, is it?
17 A. Yes, yes. Yes, I'm looking at ERN range of this document.
18 Q. Okay. But in any case that ERN --
19 A. If I am correct, because I'm ...
20 Q. Okay. But in any case, that ERN range does not correspond to the
21 documents that were seized and processed and part of the Pecanac
22 collection; is that right?
23 A. Yes, yes, of course. It's totally different ERN range.
24 Q. Okay.
25 MR. VANDERPUYE: Mr. President, I would like to tender these two
1 documents as well, 65 ter 7531 -- oh, I'm sorry, just 65 ter 7531.
2 JUDGE FLUEGGE: It will be received.
3 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honour, 65 ter document 7531 shall be
4 assigned Exhibit P2611. Thank you, Your Honours.
5 MR. VANDERPUYE: Mr. President, I -- I would like to squeeze one
6 in just before the break, if I can. But if you want, we can take our
7 break and I can come back. I have only a handful of documents, but I
8 think I can actually cut it short because essentially it's the same
9 process for each of them. So however you would like to proceed, is ...
10 JUDGE FLUEGGE: It depends on the length of the remainder of your
12 MR. VANDERPUYE: Then let's take our break then, and I will try
13 and keep it short when we get back. Thanks, Mr. President.
14 JUDGE FLUEGGE: We have our second break now, and we will resume
15 quater past 6.00.
16 --- Recess taken at 5.43 p.m.
17 --- On resuming at 6.18 p.m.
18 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Vanderpuye, please continue.
19 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. President.
20 If I may, can I have 65 ter 7294 in e-court, please.
21 Q. Do you recognise this document, Mr. Blaszczyk?
22 A. Yes, I do.
23 Q. Okay. And is this a document that comes also from the Pecanac
25 A. Yes, it's correct. It comes from the first batch of DVDs we
2 Q. And in the top right-hand corner of the document, we can see some
3 handwritten material. Have you had a chance to review that?
4 A. Yes, I had. I recognise here is, I believe, this is signature of
5 General Zdravko Tolimir.
6 Q. You said "signature"; what you are referring to specifically?
7 A. I am referring to is visible here as ZT, just the -- I mean
8 initials, rather, yeah, exactly this is the initials of, I believe,
9 General Tolimir.
10 Q. All right. And we can see here that this document refers to
11 information that is being relayed by Captain Momir Nikolic, chief of
12 security and intelligence of the Bratunac Brigade. And we can see that
13 it's relayed to the Main Staff of the Army of Republika Srpska, security
14 administration. And it informs the Main Staff that the forces are in
15 control of certain UN or UNPROFOR observation points. In particular, it
16 refers to the UNPROFOR observation post in Biljeg.
17 Have you had a chance to compare this document to other
18 information concerning these circumstances in the OTP collection?
19 A. Yes, I had.
20 Q. What I'd like to do is to show you 65 ter 5893. This one will be
21 sequential, so I won't need to show it side by side. Do you recognise
22 this document?
23 A. Yes, this is document prepared by Lieutenant Colonel
24 Vujadin Popovic.
25 Q. And we see that it's dated 8 July 1995, like the previous
2 A. Yes, this is correct.
3 Q. And what about this document compares to the previous document
4 that we saw?
5 A. If you -- can we go back to the previous document, please?
6 MR. VANDERPUYE: Yes. It's 65 ter 7294.
7 THE WITNESS: Can I look at this document, please?
8 MR. VANDERPUYE:
9 Q. It will be coming up hopefully in a moment.
10 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Now you have both documents in B/C/S on the
12 THE WITNESS: Yes. On the right-hand side, we have the document
13 from Pecanac collection. I call it Pecanac collection. And the document
14 from the left side, this is -- I believe this is the document from
15 Drina Corps collection. And both documents are talking about the same --
16 the same events about UNPROFOR check-point in the place called Biljeg.
17 MR. VANDERPUYE:
18 Q. And can you tell us something about the origin of the document on
19 the left, 65 ter 5893. Does it come also from the Pecanac collection, or
20 from another collection of documents in the possession of the Office of
21 the Prosecutor?
22 A. I believe I mentioned it, that these documents, I am referring to
23 documents from my left-hand side now, with ERN number 0436-6610, this
24 document comes from Drina Corps collection.
25 Q. Okay. You will notice also that the document on the right is
1 directed to the Drina Corps command and to the security administration;
2 is that correct?
3 A. Yes, this is correct. Is called -- this document is directed to
4 the command of Drina Corps, security administration; also to the
5 Main Staff of Republika Srpska Army, security administration.
6 Q. And the -- would it make sense, then, that the document on the
7 left, which is 65 ter 5893, reflecting the same information, would be --
8 would have been issued by Vujadin Popovic?
9 A. Yes, this is correct. And we see that document on the right-hand
10 side, this document was sent exactly originate -- I mean, received by
11 headquarters in Crna Rijeka. I see the stamp of the communication unit
12 from Crna Rijeka and also the name of one of the cryptographer, his name
13 is Vukajlovic [phoen].
14 Q. All right.
15 MR. VANDERPUYE: I would like to tender these two documents,
16 Mr. President.
17 JUDGE FLUEGGE: 65 ter 7294 will be received.
18 THE REGISTRAR: And shall be assigned Exhibit P2612. Thank you.
19 JUDGE FLUEGGE: And the other one, 65 ter 5893, will be received,
21 THE REGISTRAR: And shall be assigned Exhibit P2613. Thank you,
22 Your Honours.
23 MR. VANDERPUYE:
24 Q. Mr. Blaszczyk, I have one more document to show you, and that's
25 65 ter 2590A. [Microphone not activated]
1 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Your microphone.
2 MR. VANDERPUYE: Sorry, Mr. President. I was inquiring if there
3 was an English translation of it, and I see there is not. So let me
4 go -- let me come at this document from the other side, which would be if
5 I put up 65 ter 2590 instead of 2590A. I think this version has a
6 translation. Okay.
7 Q. And we can see here that this is a document from the command of
8 the Drina Corps, security and intelligence department. 13 July 1995 is
9 its date. And it's sent to the Main Staff security and intelligence
10 sector, and it says "intelligence administration." If we go to the
11 bottom of the document in the B/C/S and page 2 in the English, we'll see
12 that it was sent by the chief of the intelligence and security
13 department. It says lieutenant-colonel, and it doesn't have a name. All
15 Have you had a chance to compare this document to the documents
16 in the Pecanac collection?
17 A. Yes, I believe I had.
18 Q. Okay. And we can see in this document that the chief of
19 intelligence and security department in the Drina Corps is relaying
20 information concerning the movement of Muslim prisoners, and that's quite
21 throughout the document.
22 Now, if I can show you 65 ter 2590A and compare that to
23 65 ter 2590, just the B/C/S, side by side.
24 JUDGE FLUEGGE: I note, Mr. Vanderpuye, that the letter
25 65 ter 2590A is not included in your list of documents to be used.
1 MR. VANDERPUYE: It's true. You're right. I apologise for that,
2 Mr. President.
3 Q. Now, we have in e-court before us on the left side of the screen
4 65 ter 2590, and on the right, 65 ter 2590A. First let me ask you: The
5 document on the left, ERN 0359-1071, can you tell us where that document
6 came from? What's its origin?
7 A. This is document from the command of the Drina Corps, sector for
8 intelligence, I believe, and security.
9 Q. From what collection does this come from in the possession of the
10 OTP, if you know?
11 A. I don't recognise the number, the range, the ERN number now, but
12 I think it is quite old document, definitely.
13 Q. And the document, the document on the right, 65 ter 2590 --
14 2590A, from where does that document come, what collection can it be
15 found in?
16 A. Definitively is document from so-called Pecanac collection from
17 his CDs.
18 Q. Have you had a chance to compare the two documents in terms of
19 their substance and content?
20 A. Yes, I did. And the content of these documents is the same, like
21 the -- another one.
22 MR. VANDERPUYE: Can we go to the bottom of the page in both
23 documents, please.
24 Q. Okay. Again we have -- we have a difference in the type of stamp
25 that we have in the document on the right and the document on the left.
1 And is your explanation for that the same as it has been with respect to
2 the other documents with similar stamps?
3 A. Yes, I would say that this document from Pecanac collection on
4 the right-hand side, this is document, in fact, which finally ended up in
5 the Main Staff in Crna Rijeka, because I see the stamp used by the
6 communication officer from Crna Rijeka. And it says here "received."
7 This means that they received this information from Drina Corps, I
8 believe. And on the left-hand side document, this is not clear here, but
9 this is stamp of one of the subordinated unit.
10 Q. All right. And we can see on the right-hand side 65 ter
11 6 -- 2590A, I'm sorry, we can see that that document is in a different
12 kind of type-face than the one on the left. Does that indicate that the
13 document on the right -- is that a sent or a received stamp on it?
14 A. It's different type of typewriting here, yes. In the stamp it
15 says "received," but it could be also received for sent.
16 Q. All right. If we go to the top of the document, again we see
17 different handwritten entries on the document. And is your explanation
18 for that the same as it has been with respect to the other documents
19 we've looked at with different handwriting portions of it?
20 A. Mm-hm. I'm convinced now that this document on the right-hand
21 side, it was received by the Main Staff, sector for intelligence and
22 security. And the handwritings here on the right document is totally
23 different than on the left-hand side. It's visible here. And also I see
24 indication that that document was -- this is the number of intelligence
25 department from the Main Staff, 12/45.
1 Q. Okay. And for the record, that's in the centre of the top of the
2 document; is that right?
3 A. Yes, it's correct. But I'm not sure about initials on this
4 document, but ...
5 Q. All right. Thank you.
6 JUDGE FLUEGGE: You are referring to the document on the
7 right-hand side of the screen?
8 THE WITNESS: Yes, it's correct, Your Honour.
9 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. Blaszczyk.
10 Mr. President, I would like to tender these two documents.
11 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Both documents will be received.
12 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, 65 ter document 2590A shall be
13 assigned Exhibit P2614. And 65 ter document 2590 shall be assigned
14 Exhibit P2615. Thank you.
15 MR. VANDERPUYE:
16 Q. Just one last question: Mr. Blaszczyk, in your review of the
17 documents from the Pecanac collection and comparison to the documents
18 that are in other collections of the OTP, did you come across documents
19 that had any indication in the Pecanac collection that had they been
20 tampered with or suggested in any way that they had been manipulated or
21 altered in any way?
22 A. I can't say that. I review most of these documents from this
23 collection, and I don't remember. I didn't notice any such document that
24 could be tampered or altered in somehow.
25 Q. Do you have any reason to believe that they would have been?
1 A. No, I don't.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. I don't. And we are referring to these type of the documents,
4 mostly the JPEG files, as I said, not to PDF files or Word documents, of
6 Q. Thank you, sir. I have no further questions for you.
7 MR. VANDERPUYE: That concludes my direct examination,
8 Mr. President.
9 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you, Mr. Vanderpuye. One issue remains
10 open. We have just received the two documents with the number 2590, and
11 that one with an A has no English translation. Are you going to ask for
12 an English translation or what are your intentions?
13 MR. VANDERPUYE: I don't think one is necessary, Mr. President,
14 because -- I don't think one's necessary, so no. I don't intend to ask
15 for a translation, unless the Defence requires and then I'll do so.
16 JUDGE FLUEGGE: The content of both documents seems to be the
18 Mr. Gajic.
19 MR. GAJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, the contents are the
20 same in the biggest parts. The only difference is in the stamps at the
21 bottom of the two documents.
22 JUDGE FLUEGGE: And, of course, in the handwriting. Therefore, I
23 think there's no need for another translation of the body of the
25 Thank you very much, Mr. Vanderpuye.
1 MR. VANDERPUYE: Thank you, Mr. President.
2 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Tolimir, now it's your turn to commence your
3 cross-examination. You have the floor.
4 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President. I'm glad
5 I can welcome Mr. Blaszczyk to this courtroom, and I would like to thank
6 him for come here to testify in these proceedings and to talk about the
8 The Defence has no questions for him and basically this brings
9 our cross-examination to an end. Thank you.
10 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you very much, Mr. Tolimir. In that case,
11 there will be no re-examination, of course.
12 Mr. Blaszczyk, thank you very much that you were able to come to
13 this trial again. Now you, again, are free to return to your normal work
14 with the OTP.
15 THE WITNESS: Thank you very much.
16 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you very much. You may leave the
17 courtroom. All the best.
18 [The witness withdrew]
19 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Vanderpuye, I see you on your feet. We have
20 to deal with your next days and the scheduling of witnesses. There was
21 and there is one witness scheduled for tomorrow, but there is some
22 uncertainty if he will be able the testify tomorrow, if he will be here
23 in The Hague.
24 Mr. Vanderpuye.
25 MR. VANDERPUYE: Yes, that's correct, Mr. President.
1 May we go into private session for a moment, please?
2 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Yes, we turn into private session.
3 [Private session]
11 Page 17726 redacted. Private session.
17 [Open session]
18 THE REGISTRAR: We're back in open session, Your Honours. Thank
20 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Thank you very much. We have discussed during
21 the private period of our hearings the further scheduling of witnesses.
22 Tomorrow there will be no hearing, that will be cancelled. On Thursday,
23 in two weeks' [sic] time, we will resume our hearings at 10.30 in the
24 morning for a videolink. We resume in Courtroom III.
25 Now we adjourn for the day.
1 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 6.47 p.m.,
2 to be reconvened on Thursday, the 8th day
3 of September, 2011, at 10.30 a.m.