1 Friday, 22 September 2000
2 [Status Conference]
3 [Open Session]
4 [The accused entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 10.00 a.m.
6 JUDGE HUNT: Call the case, please.
7 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Case number IT-98-32-PT,
8 Prosecutor versus Mitar Vasiljevic.
9 JUDGE HUNT: Appearances, please.
10 MS. KORNER: Joanna Korner representing the Prosecution, together
11 with Ann Sutherland, legal officer, and Andrew Powell, case manager.
12 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you. For the accused.
13 MR. DOMAZET: Your Honour, Vladimir Domazet, lead counsel of
14 Mr. Mitar Vasiljevic.
15 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you very much. This is a Status Conference to
16 be held in accordance with the Rules and I think within time.
17 How are you going, Mrs. Korner, in the discovery matters?
18 MS. KORNER: In respect of the disclosure of the statements, all
19 statements obtained which were referred to on the last Status Conference
20 have been disclosed to the Defence, both in English and in the Bosnian
22 Can I perhaps move on to an associated matter in respect of those
24 JUDGE HUNT: Yes, please.
25 MS. KORNER: All of those statements have been disclosed with the
1 identity of the witnesses redacted, as is the expression here.
2 Your Honours issued an order -- can I just get the correct date of
3 that order? -- I think on the 8th of September -- yes -- that the
4 Prosecution, and I quote paragraph 2: "Is to comply on or before the
5 6th of October 2000 with an obligation under Rule 66(A)(i) of the Rules of
6 Procedure and Evidence to supply to each of the accused copies, in
7 unredacted form, of the supporting material which accompanied the
8 indictment and confirmation was sought."
9 JUDGE HUNT: That, I'm afraid, is the perils of using a
10 precedent. There's only one accused.
11 MS. KORNER: Yes. And indeed, I think part of the perils of using
12 a precedent arises as well from our original motion, because Your Honours
13 may have got the impression that -- from paragraph 3 of the original
14 motion dated the 27th of January, that the Prosecution had made redactions
15 of material that had gone before the Confirming Judge. We hadn't. The
16 material which went before the Confirming Judge was, in fact -- did not
17 disclose the identities of the witness.
18 JUDGE HUNT: You said that on the previous occasion.
19 MS. KORNER: In those circumstances, if Your Honours were aware of
20 that, we had, in fact, complied with our obligation under Rule 66(A)
21 because the material which the Defence have got is the identical material
22 seen by the Confirming Judge.
23 I understand the spirit of Your Honour's order. It is very
24 similar, if not identical, to an order you issued in the case of Brdjanin
25 and Talic. But I've spoken to Mr. Domazet this morning about that, and
1 his view is that he does not require, at this stage, the identity of the
2 witnesses. His defence is, in fact, as he's made very clear to us, one of
4 All that I'm pointing out is that if the Defence don't require it
5 and we have, in fact, complied with our obligations under Rule 66, if Your
6 Honours still feel that you wish to issue an order that we should disclose
7 the identities, I think it would have to be a separate order.
8 JUDGE HUNT: Yes, I understand. Let's hear what Mr. Domazet says
9 about it.
10 Mr. Domazet, you don't require, at this stage, the identity of
11 those witnesses who gave statements and which were before the Confirming
12 Judge; is that so?
13 MR. DOMAZET: [Interpretation] Yes, Mr. President. For the moment,
14 as far as I am concerned, the identity of the witness is not of the
15 greatest importance, and I am not making a problem out of it.
16 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you very much.
17 Well, Ms. Korner, you can rest assured that we won't have to
18 debate, on this particular occasion, the obligation of the Prosecution to
19 reveal, at least to the Confirming Judge, the identity of the witnesses.
20 So that can arise, no doubt, in some later stage if there is the new ploy
21 adopted by the Prosecution.
22 MS. KORNER: It's not a ploy, Your Honour, with the greatest of
24 JUDGE HUNT: I'm sorry to laugh. Yes.
25 MS. KORNER: Your Honour knows, of course, that we do have strong
1 feelings about protection of witnesses.
2 JUDGE HUNT: That's right. But at some stage, you are going to
3 have to reveal the witnesses' identity if you have revealed them to the
4 Confirming Judge or not.
5 MS. KORNER: Absolutely, and we intend to.
6 JUDGE HUNT: Are you going to make an application for protective
7 measures in relation to any witnesses? Because you have to serve any
8 other statements as well.
9 MS. KORNER: I'm sorry. Your Honour, all statements that we're
10 going to use have been served on the Defence.
11 JUDGE HUNT: But are they ones in addition to those which were
12 before the Confirming Judge?
13 MS. KORNER: Yes, they are.
14 JUDGE HUNT: Well, then, we better find out from Mr. Domazet
15 whether he wants the identity for those as well. He may well not.
16 Mr. Domazet, in relation to the other statements, that is, those
17 which were not before the Confirming Judge, do you require the identity of
18 those witnesses at this stage?
19 MR. DOMAZET: [Interpretation] No, Mr. President. No, thank you.
20 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you very much. Well, Ms. Korner, that means
21 you've complied with 66(A)(1) and 66(A)(2), have you?
22 MS. KORNER: Yes.
23 MR. HUNT: Now, on the last occasion, you told us that the
24 pre-trial brief was in the process of being prepared and that it would be
25 filed shortly.
1 MS. KORNER: Yes. It hasn't been filed yet. It is in the process
2 of being prepared. I cannot say exactly how long it would take, but
3 obviously we're in Your Honour's hands on that.
4 JUDGE HUNT: Well, the Trial Chamber is not able to give any real
5 indication as to when this case will come on for hearing, but it is one
6 which, we are all aware of, will take a very short time. And hopefully
7 during some break in the next case -- there is always some form of break
8 whilst the Defence gets ready or something -- we could take it then.
9 MS. KORNER: Yes.
10 JUDGE HUNT: I realise it will be jumping the list, but there's no
11 point in starting something like Brdjanin and Talic and then putting it
12 aside for another three or four months. So this is obviously one which,
13 if we can, we will fit into one of those breaks. So my own feeling is
14 that it could well get a run early next year, so that's why we need to
15 have the pre-trial brief when you have it so that we can get on with the
16 final preparations.
17 You are also going to interview the accused.
18 MS. KORNER: Yes. Again, very helpfully, I'm spoken to
19 Mr. Domazet this morning about that. He would like to be able to read
20 before the interview, which his client is agreeable to, the new material
21 which he's just received. He, I understand, also has other aspects to his
22 professional life which may make it a little difficult for him to get to
23 deal with it until sometime in October.
24 If it's suitable, the agreeable date would be mid-November for the
1 JUDGE HUNT: It's a matter between the parties.
2 MS. KORNER: Absolutely.
3 JUDGE HUNT: We can't make orders for that.
4 MS. KORNER: No. But the only reason I say that is, it would
5 probably be more helpful to serve -- whatever the expression is -- the
6 pre-trial brief after the interview has been conducted.
7 JUDGE HUNT: Very well. By that stage, you may also have some
8 agreed facts, one hopes.
9 MS. KORNER: Exactly.
10 JUDGE HUNT: Now, your obligations under 68, of course, are
11 ongoing --
12 MS. KORNER: They are.
13 JUDGE HUNT: -- exculpatory material.
14 MS. KORNER: Yes.
15 JUDGE HUNT: And you understand the Defence is one of alibi.
16 MS. KORNER: So we understand.
17 JUDGE HUNT: I'm just looking to see what other ones have to be
18 notified. The so-called special defence of diminished responsibility, or
19 what might be called insanity.
20 MS. KORNER: I don't -- I have no indication that that's going to
21 be applicable.
22 JUDGE HUNT: Well, alibi and those would be rather hard to run
23 together, I should think.
24 MS. KORNER: I don't know. It's been done, but --
25 JUDGE HUNT: Yes, it's been done in a trial I had before a jury,
1 which was rather remarkable.
2 Well, there's no point in dealing with the names of any of the
3 Defence's witnesses because you haven't revealed yours. Well, not given
4 them a list yet.
5 Any other matters that you feel should be raised at this stage?
6 MS. KORNER: No, thank you.
7 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you very much.
8 Well, Mr. Domazet, any matters you want to raise in the terms of
9 the order -- of the rule in relation to your client?
10 MR. DOMAZET: [Interpretation] No, Mr. President. At this point
11 in time, no, thank you. Nothing else.
12 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you very much. We are very grateful to the
13 parties for being so cooperative, it's a pleasure to see, and hopefully
14 we'll get this case on and over with speedily at the beginning of next
15 year sometime.
16 MS. KORNER: Obviously, Your Honours can't give an exact date, but
17 Your Honours are working on the basis it may come in early next year.
18 JUDGE HUNT: Well, what I hope to do, and it will depend upon how
19 Krnojelac runs, there's always a period of some weeks between the end of
20 the Prosecution case and the beginning of the next one -- and for once I'm
21 grateful to see the Prosecution hasn't got identical teams on consecutive
22 cases -- so that would be the ideal time for a short case like this.
23 Now, your estimate was 14 days for the Prosecution case. Even
24 allowing the same amount for the Defence case, we should be able to get
25 through it in a month, one would hope.
1 MS. KORNER: Yes.
2 JUDGE HUNT: It may have to be fitted in with the other case, if
3 it's still going, when they're ready to start their defence, but it's
4 obviously a case which should be got out of the way as soon as possible.
5 MS. KORNER: Yes. I'm grateful for that indication.
6 JUDGE HUNT: No doubt you'll be in touch with those in Krnojelac
7 to see how it's running, and there will probably have to be another Status
8 Conference within the meaning of the rules before it comes up, anyway.
9 MS. KORNER: Yes.
10 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you very much to counsel, and for your
11 assistance. We will adjourn.
12 --- Whereupon the Status Conference adjourned at
13 10.15 a.m.