1 Wednesday, 3 March 2010
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.09 a.m.
5 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours.
6 This is case IT-08-91-T, the Prosecutor versus Mico Stanisic and
7 Stojan Zupljanin.
8 JUDGE HALL
9 session, I will take the appearances for today.
10 MR. DOBBYN: Good morning, Your Honours. For the Office of the
11 Prosecutor, Gerard Dobbyn, with Joanna Korner, and our Case Manager
12 Crispian Smith.
13 MR. ZECEVIC: Good morning, Your Honours. Slobodan Zecevic,
14 Slobodan Cvijetic, Ms. Deirdre Montgomery, and Ms. Tatjana Savic
15 appearing for Stanisic Defence this morning. Thank you.
16 MR. PANTELIC: Good morning, Your Honours. For Zupljanin Defence
17 this morning appearing, Igor Pantelic, Dragan Krgovic, and
18 Stephanie Cagnet. Thank you.
19 JUDGE HALL
20 detain us --
21 MR. ZECEVIC: I'm sorry, Your Honour, if I correctly remember,
22 you instructed us to give you the --
23 JUDGE HALL
24 MR. ZECEVIC: The oral submissions on request. We could do it
25 now or we can do it later. It's up to Your Honours.
1 JUDGE HALL
2 would not take the whole of today, so perhaps at the end of today --
3 MR. ZECEVIC: Thank you. I understand.
4 JUDGE HALL
5 convenient time.
6 MR. ZECEVIC: I appreciate it.
7 JUDGE HALL
8 So we revert to closed session. And if the usher would escort
9 the witness back to the stand.
10 [Closed session]
11 Pages 7118-7190 redacted. Closed session.
10 [Open session]
11 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.
12 JUDGE HALL
13 MR. ZECEVIC: Your Honours, you instructed us to orally respond
14 to -- in the course of today on motion for additional --
15 JUDGE HALL
16 MR. ZECEVIC: Yes, thank you very much.
17 Your Honours, I would -- I would be very short.
18 The -- our understanding is that the standard for adding
19 documents to the 65 ter list is stated in the oral decision of
20 25th February, 2010
21 "... factors to be taken in consideration include good cause, due
22 diligence, lack of undue prejudice to the Defence, and judicial economy."
23 Those are the four reasons.
24 I can give you the -- the transcript reference is page 6857.
25 However, the present motion that we are -- that we are supposed
1 to give our position to, for some reason, does not even quote these
2 factors nor gives any kind of explanation whether the -- the situation,
3 as it is, is in conformity with the Trial Chamber's decision and if
4 the -- if the -- the requirements are met.
5 Therefore, we object to -- to this motion.
6 Thank you very much.
7 JUDGE HALL
8 MR. PANTELIC: And if I may, on the same subject, Your Honours.
9 The position of Zupljanin Defence is following: I stand
10 corrected, of course, we have 2678 65 ter documents, and plus, I believe,
11 eight additional through this witness.
12 I mean, on a almost daily basis we are coming to the situation
13 where we are overloaded with this approach to -- to amend 65 ter list,
14 and then inevitably at certain stage we shall be in sort of confusion
15 where we are with the numbers, which kind of documents, et cetera.
16 I would like to outline the -- the following standard and
17 position. I think that I really have a understanding of -- of the
18 position of the Prosecution. It's a living matter. Trial is evolving
19 and developing. But certain standards and levels should be imposed.
20 What is the weight of -- of particular exhibits, especially in light of
21 the thousands of already 65 ter documents. So I think with a sort of
22 relaxed approach towards the -- the -- the request of the Prosecution, we
23 are entering into the phase where we shall be overloaded and we shall
24 be -- we shall lost the quality of this kind of documents.
25 The rule of the game is very simple. You have a deadline for a
1 submission of 65 ter list, and then a good cause should be shown, and a
2 certain standard of -- of the quality of that particular document.
3 For example, we are facing a numerous approach by the Prosecution
4 regarding, for example, photos or maps or -- or all other -- I really
5 don't like to be understand -- understood incorrectly. But, I mean, it
6 is not important for the case. Thousands of documents are here. And
7 we -- we have almost a clear picture. If the Prosecution would like to
8 add every day and every -- every two -- two days some other documents, I
9 mean, what is the case of the Prosecution for Christ's sake? What they
10 have as a case, if they didn't tailor and create their case well in
11 advance. This indictment was filed in, correct me, 1999, 11 years ago.
12 I mean, speaking of my client, Mr. Zupljanin. Where we are now?
13 It's a very simple case, Your Honour? They don't have -- they don't have
14 any particular proofs of criminal conduct of my client, so they are
15 trying to enlarge this strategy, you know, with whole JCE concept, you
16 know, umbrella crime, politics, constitutional issues, division,
17 et cetera.
18 Your Honour. Where are the proofs against my client, A, B, C, and D?
19 End of story.
20 Thank you.
21 JUDGE HALL
22 means that you specifically object to the present application?
23 MR. PANTELIC: Absolutely, Your Honour. Absolutely. I stand
24 with this submission. Thank you.
25 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, may I briefly respond to this. First
1 of all, it's not right to say that the written motion filed in respect of
2 the three documents that we wish to add ignored the ruling. It
3 specifically refers to the ruling of the 25th of last month.
4 Your Honours, it is, I'm sure understood by all in this
5 courtroom, as Mr. Pantelic puts it, that a trial is an evolving thing and
6 that were the -- at the beginning of the trial, the positions of the
7 parties, including the Defence, to be set out very clearly what is in
8 issue. And I have no doubt at all that things might be a lot more
10 Both Defence counsel have appeared in trials before this Tribunal
11 before. Mr. Zecevic, in particular. It is perhaps worth reminding
12 Defence counsel that it's not just the Prosecution in all the trials who
13 have filed motions to amend their 65 ter lists. In the Milutinovic case,
14 in which Mr. Zecevic was involved, the Defence filed no less than
15 28 motions, in order to amend their 65 ter list.
16 Neither Defence counsel today has pointed to any prejudice that
17 is caused to their case by photographs, two photographs, of what we
18 believe to be crime sites in the Vlasenica municipality, how that is in
19 any way going to put them at a disadvantage or cause them any prejudice,
20 or the crime register for the SJB. But all of these matters have been
21 disclosed. We understood the rational behind the ruling on the
22 25th of February was because of late application so that not sufficient
23 notice was given to the Defence.
24 In this case, we've given ample notice, we hope, Your Honours, to
25 the Defence of what we would wish to use. We submit that it is in the
1 interests of justice for Your Honours to grants our application.
2 JUDGE HALL
3 [Trial Chamber confers]
4 JUDGE HALL
5 application embraces in terms of items.
6 MS. KORNER: The application is to add three exhibits to the
7 65 ter list to be dealt with by witnesses who are coming next week.
8 The proposed ones are photographs of two crime sites in
9 Vlasenica, which is the municipality that will be dealt with next week.
10 And the third one is the crime register for the SJB. And
11 witnesses -- Your Honours we're filing we don't actually know whether the
12 witness can deal with it as pointed out in the motion. We're filing this
13 application on the basis we're going to invite them when they arrive next
14 week to look at them and see whether they can assist.
15 So we're giving notice of that.
16 JUDGE HALL
17 So the Chamber accedes to the motion of the Prosecution for the
18 addition of these three items to its 65 ter list.
19 MS. KORNER: Thank you.
20 [Trial Chamber confers]
21 JUDGE HALL
22 tomorrow afternoon in Courtroom I.
23 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.38 p.m.
24 to be reconvened on Thursday, the 4th day
25 of March, 2010, at 2.15 p.m.