Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 7270

 1                           Friday, 5 March 2010

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           [The witness takes the stand]

 5                           --- Upon commencing at 2.18 p.m.

 6             THE REGISTRAR:  Good afternoon, Your Honours.

 7             This is case IT-08-91-T, the Prosecutor versus Mico Stanisic and

 8     Stojan Zupljanin.

 9             JUDGE HALL:  Thank you, Mr. Registrar.

10             Good afternoon to everyone.  I, first of all, note for the record

11     that in the absence of Judge Delvoie, we're sitting today under

12     Rule 15 bis.

13             May we have the appearances, please.

14             MS. KORNER:  Good afternoon, Your Honours.  Joanna Korner and

15     Crispian Smith for the Prosecution.

16             MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours.  On

17     behalf of defence of Mr. Stanisic, Slobodan Cvijetic and

18     Deirdre Montgomery.

19             MR. PANTELIC:  Good afternoon, Your Honours.  For

20     Zupljanin Defence this afternoon appearing, Igor Pantelic,

21     Dragan Krgovic, and Miroslav Cuskic.  Thank you.

22             JUDGE HALL:  Thank you.

23             Yesterday it was brought to my attention that we had forgotten

24     not to move out of private session, and I'm wondering whether the -- what

25     way you are now headed, Mr. Krgovic.  We -- we -- we need to revert to

Page 7271

 1     private session or whether we remain in open session.  Could you -- could

 2     you assist me in that regard?

 3             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I propose that we

 4     stay in open session for a time.  I will try to avoid mentioning the

 5     position, the name, or any tasks performed (redacted)

 6   (redacted)

 7   (redacted)

 8     before it goes out.

 9             JUDGE HALL:  Yes.

10             MS. KORNER:  Thank you.

11             JUDGE HALL:  And I'm also advised that yesterday afternoon, as if

12     by magic, yesterday evening just after the adjournment the translation

13     of -- of the document in question appeared.  So we are now ready to -- to

14     continue.

15             I take it, Ms. Korner, that you have seen it.

16             MS. KORNER:  Yes, we have.  Thank you very much, Your Honours.

17             JUDGE HALL:  Yes.

18             (redacted) before I invite Mr. Krgovic to continue -- sorry.

19                           [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]

20             JUDGE HALL:  Witness, before I invite Mr. Krgovic to resume his

21     cross-examination, I remind that you're still on your oath.

22             Yes, Mr. Krgovic.

23                           WITNESS:  WITNESS ST-213 [Resumed]

24                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

25                           Cross-examination by Mr. Krgovic: [Continued]

Page 7272

 1        Q.   [Interpretation] To avoid any mention, I will address you as

 2     Witness.  I'm not going to use any determinant.

 3             I'm trying to formulate my questions so that you can answer with

 4     a yes or no, and if there are questions where you have to explain what

 5     you did, then we will go into private session.  And please signal

 6     whenever you feel that you may divulge your identity by an answer, and I

 7     will seek to go into private session.

 8             Is that clear?

 9        A.   Yes.

10        Q.   Yesterday I showed you this document.  It's still before you.

11     Have you had a chance to look at that it?  First of all, I showed you the

12     first and last page.  Now, go to page 2 of the document, please.

13             Does this document, in principle, contain everything that a

14     document of such nature should contain?

15        A.   Yes.

16        Q.   Does this seem as an authentic document, dating from that period?

17        A.   Yes.

18             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, if there's no

19     objection, I would like to tender this document into evidence.

20             MS. KORNER:  Your Honours, I'm not at all sure that the witness

21     can testify as to its authenticity or not, but have I no objection to it

22     going in, because the signature and stamp have been identified.

23             JUDGE HALL:  Admitted and marked.

24             THE REGISTRAR:  As Exhibit 2D52, Your Honours.

25             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]

Page 7273

 1        Q.   Witness, please take a look at page 12 of this document.

 2             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] That would be page 11 in the

 3     English version.  I don't know how it is in e-court.  Could be the next

 4     page.  That would be page 12 in the English version.  I think ...

 5             I apologise, just a second, please.

 6             Well, since, in e-court, pages are not the same as the document

 7     pages, that would be the next page in e-court, please.  In English.  The

 8     B/C/S version is okay.

 9             So I apologise.  The versions are different.  In English, the

10     exhibit number is 2D02-1191.

11             MS. KORNER: [Microphone not activated]

12             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Page 12 in the English version, I

13     think.

14             It is page 11 in English, after all.  That would be the right

15     page.  Yes, thanks.

16        Q.   In paragraph 2, that would be the last sentence, there is a piece

17     of information concerning the number of received and sent dispatches, and

18     it says that in the first nine months, in 1991, covered by this report,

19     180, 160.168 dispatches and 335.858 have been received.  In other words,

20     188.168 were received and, 39.858 were sent.  Do you agree?  Do you agree

21     that this is stated in the document?

22        A.   Yes, I see it.  It is stated so.

23        Q.   You have no reason to believe that this is incorrect?

24        A.   I do not have any information that this would be incorrect.

25             MS. KORNER:  Your Honours, I don't want to object.  But I don't

Page 7274

 1     think the witness is being asked whether this document is one that the

 2     witness has ever seen before.  Because, as you notice, I didn't deal with

 3     the content except when I was dealing with it.  And if the witness has

 4     not seen it before, then this just really a method of just reading out

 5     what's in the document.

 6             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, if I may respond.

 7             My examination is linking up with Madam Korner's examination.

 8     She broached the subject of the number of dispatches that went through

 9     the witness's hands in a certain period of time, and it is my intention

10     to clarify this matter, to see the period that we are dealing with, to

11     compare 1991 to 1992.  And on the basis of that, to ask the witness to

12     confirm certain facts.  This is the gist of my using this document.

13             MS. KORNER:  Well, Your Honours, again, I mean, I don't want to

14     delay matters.  I think that it was put to the witness yesterday that

15     dispatches were matters that were done by telecommunication and were sent

16     by Mr. Rakovic.  And that's a slightly -- there was a clear distinction

17     drawn between detaches and correspondence that came for the chief.

18             I don't know that the witness gave any evidence which suggested

19     that the witness had any knowledge of the numbers.  But as I say, I mean,

20     rather than delay matters, I'm just putting that down for the record,

21     that how helpful the witness can be over this is something that's

22     completely different.

23             JUDGE HALL:  I think I see where you are going Mr. Krgovic.  But,

24     of course, as Ms. Korner says, the content to separate - how should I

25     describe it? - the system from the contents.  There's no point by way

Page 7275

 1     of -- in the course of asking questions, in essence reading out the

 2     contents of this document which the witness had no hand in making.

 3     But -- so if you -- if you would bear that in mind, please proceed.

 4             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] I will bear that in mind,

 5     Your Honours.

 6        Q.   Witness, do you have any knowledge that, for instance, in 1991,

 7     there was a large number of dispatches which reached you, which went

 8     through the place where you worked at?  By meaning -- by meaning -- by

 9     saying "the place," I mean the institution that you worked at.

10        A.   I mentioned that in -- during that year, there was a large number

11     of dispatches.  I cannot say it was 180; it could have been 150 or 120.

12     It was a large number.  And I cannot tell you whether 31 or 41.000 were

13     sent.  I'm not certain about the exact figure, but there was a large

14     number of dispatches.

15        Q.   When I mentioned these figures, I mean roughly.  But this would

16     be a large number which corresponds to the figure mentioned in the

17     report.  Is that so?

18        A.   Yes.

19             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone.

20             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Let's take a look at, please, P595.

21     Can we see it on e-court, please.

22             Mr. Usher.

23        Q.   [Interpretation] I'm going to give you a hard copy for

24     convenience.

25             Please take a look at page 1 of this document.  This is a report

Page 7276

 1     on the work of the centre from the 1st of January until the

 2     30th of June, 1992.

 3             And then take a look at the last page of this document, please.

 4             Is this Mr. Zupljanin's signature?

 5        A.   Yes.

 6        Q.   And the stamp of your centre; is that correct?

 7        A.   Yes.

 8             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone for counsel, please.

 9             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]

10        Q.   Please go to page 17 in the B/C/S version.

11             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] That would be page 12 in the

12     English version.

13        Q.   And at the bottom of the page, you will hear [as interpreted]

14     that there were 9.956 dispatches received and 9.686 sent.  728 coded

15     dispatches, and 898 coded dispatches were sent out, and 2.297 dispatches

16     were in transit.

17             Can you agree that this statement is here stated in the first six

18     months of 1992?

19        A.   Yes, this report covers the first six months.  The previous

20     report covered nine months.  I did not do anything with respect to this

21     document, but I know that there was a large number of such dispatches.

22        Q.   Now, please take a look at another document.

23             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] P621.

24        Q.   I will give you a hard copy for your convenience.

25             Please take a look at the first page.  That would be a report on

Page 7277

 1     the work of the centre from -- for the period from 1st of July to

 2     30th of September, 1992.  And then take a look at the last page, please.

 3             Is there a signature?  Is this Mr. Zupljanin's signature?

 4             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] No, the penultimate page.  I

 5     apologise.

 6             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Although it is not typed, I

 7     recognise Chief Stojan's signature.

 8             Let me take a look at the stamp.  And the stamp is authentic.

 9             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]

10        Q.   Please take a look at page 14.

11             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] In English, that would be page 31.

12     In the Serbian version, that would be ERN 0074-9631.

13        Q.   So we are dealing with another three months.  The previous

14     document dealt with 1991, nine months, then I showed you a report

15     covering the first six months of 1992, and then another, which covers

16     three months of 1992.  It states here that 1996 uncoded dispatches were

17     received and 162 coded were received.  1.396 were received, and 43 were

18     sent.

19             Is that right?

20        A.   Yes.  It states so here.

21        Q.   If we compare 1991 and 1992, the same periods, in 1991, we will

22     see in the first nine months in peacetime there were 228.026 dispatches

23     received.  And in the first nine months in 1992, 27.151, which would be

24     10 per cent of the number from 1991.

25             So this number is much smaller than the figure from peacetime.

Page 7278

 1        A.   Well, on the basis of the information that communications service

 2     prepared, this would be so.

 3        Q.   And when you voiced your estimates on the number of dispatches

 4     that went through your hands, that figure would be how far you could

 5     understand or recall.  You gave us an average number of dispatches that

 6     went through your hands, not the exact?

 7        A.   Yes, that's correct.

 8        Q.   The individuals who took care of communications were definitely

 9     better placed to give estimations and figures involved?

10        A.   Not only estimations, they had specific figures that they kept

11     records of.

12        Q.   Precisely.  That's what I meant.  They had the exact numbers and

13     accurate records; is that right?

14        A.   Yes.

15             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone, please.

16             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]

17        Q.   The Prosecutor showed you a document yesterday, which is P569,

18     that I will show you now.

19             This is a fax message, is it not?

20        A.   Not a fax message.  It's a dispatch.

21        Q.   But it was sent through a fax machine.

22        A.   I don't want to go into the work that -- done by the encryption

23     people, but a fax would have a -- or, rather, there should be a

24     DD reference at the top there.  It should state "communications centre."

25             I don't think that it went through a fax.

Page 7279

 1        Q.   Can you direct your attention to the middle part of the document.

 2             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] And can this number in the middle

 3     be enlarged, please.  Above where it states "page 2."

 4        Q.   Can you see it now?  13th June 1992, 2943 [as interpreted] and

 5     this number, 39155.  Are you familiar with this number?

 6        A.   I'm not.  And I don't know what sort of procedure was used in the

 7     communications centre once they received a dispatch.  But the number,

 8     078, is the Banja Luka prefix.  But I didn't work in the communications

 9     centre in order for me to be able to know what means they used.

10        Q.   That's clear.

11             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone, please.

12             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Can we call up 65 ter document 230.

13        Q.   This is a report from 1992.  Can you help us here?  This

14     reference 11-1/02, that's the general crime department reference, is it

15     not?

16        A.   Yes.

17        Q.   This is a report on the arrest and arraignment of certain

18     individuals of Serb ethnicity who had committed crimes against the Muslim

19     population.  And you see it is stated at the bottom:

20             "Chief of centre, Stojan Zupljanin."

21             But the signature is not his, is it?

22        A.   No, it isn't.

23        Q.   As discussed yesterday, the separate services which sent their

24     documents out, when doing so, they would have the chief sign it, and then

25     they would be sent out independently of you; is that right?

Page 7280

 1        A.   Yes.  Independently of me, but the deputy chief was able to sign

 2     such correspondence, and not the individual services.

 3        Q.   Perhaps I should have said a high-ranking official who had a

 4     certain position and certain powers within the centre.

 5        A.   Yes.

 6             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone, please.

 7             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]

 8        Q.   The number, 3400/92 in the upper right-hand corner, that's the

 9     number of the crime registry where the criminal report was basically

10     filed.  So it was the 3400th criminal report filed that year.  Is that

11     right?

12        A.   Yes, that's the number, and that's the crime register, right, KU.

13        Q.   The date is the 28th of August, 1992?

14        A.   Yes.

15        Q.   And the stamp is that of the centre, right?

16        A.   Yes.

17             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I wish to tender this

18     document into evidence, unless there are any objections.

19             JUDGE HALL:  Admitted and marked.

20             THE REGISTRAR:  As Exhibit 2D53, Your Honours.

21             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]

22        Q.   In answer to the Prosecutor's questions, you spoke of certain

23     references or designations placed on documents.

24             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Let us look at P123, MFI.

25             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone, please.

Page 7281

 1             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Can I have the usher's assistance

 2     in handing you this set of documents.  These are photo copies that will

 3     facilitate the examination.  It is much easier to have documents in front

 4     of you.

 5             I'm interested in the document marked with number 8.

 6        Q.   Please look at page 1 of the document, and I'm interested in the

 7     top part of it.

 8             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] And can we have the same portion

 9     enlarged on our screens.

10        Q.   This is a document from the Security Services Centre, public

11     security centre of -- station of Sanski Most, which was sent to the

12     chief.  It's not a dispatch.  In fact, you called it differently.  What

13     was the term that you used?

14        A.   A strictly confidential document.

15        Q.   There's a handwritten note here.  It seems to me that these are

16     Mr. Zupljanin's initials, are they not?

17        A.   There where 02 is written, it is his initials, yes.

18        Q.   It says here the corps HQ and the MUP are to be notified.  And

19     below that, we have Stojan Zupljanin's initials.  Is that right?

20        A.   Yes.

21        Q.   We have 02 reference at the top again standing for the general

22     crime department.

23        A.   Crime department is 02.  In other words, who is to be charged

24     with the task.

25        Q.   It follows from here that when Stojan Zupljanin received the

Page 7282

 1     dispatch, he immediately forwarded it to the corps HQ and the head office

 2     of MUP; is that right?

 3        A.   According to the reference, he tasked the sector 02 with this,

 4     told them what to do, and placed his initials next to that.

 5             MS. KORNER:  Sorry.  Could the witness just read out the whole

 6     thing so we get an accurate translation of what is on the letter?  I

 7     simply -- I think that Mr. Krgovic's was a slight summary.

 8             So if the witness just reads it out.

 9             JUDGE HALL:  Sorry, you're talking about the manuscript note in

10     the top right corner?

11             MS. KORNER:  [Microphone not activated] Yes.

12             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]

13        Q.   You heard Ms. Korner.  Could you read out the entire handwritten

14     part.

15        A.   "02," underlined, "notify the corps headquarters, or command, and

16     MUP."

17        Q.   And below that is Mr. Zupljanin's signature, is it not?

18        A.   His initials.

19        Q.   What else is written there to the left?

20        A.   It says:  "Djukic."

21             And the rest, I can't make out.

22        Q.   Do you know of a Djukic who worked for the general crime

23     department at the time?

24        A.   Yes.  I believe that there was a Dusko Djukic, an inspector in

25     the crime service.

Page 7283

 1        Q.   What we have there is a different handwriting on the same letter,

 2     slightly to the left, and in somewhat darker ink.

 3        A.   No.

 4             THE INTERPRETER:  The interpreter notes we didn't hear

 5     Mr. Krgovic's last parts of the question because the microphone was

 6     switched off.

 7             JUDGE HARHOFF:  Mr. Krgovic, could you please repeat your

 8     question.

 9             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] I asked the witness if he

10     could read the part of the text, and (redacted) answered no.

11             MS. KORNER: [Microphone not activated] Both sexes, I suppose.

12             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] I wanted to shorten the procedure.

13        Q.   I apologise, Witness.  When I was drawing your attention to the

14     handwriting part in darker ink, I asked you if you could read what was

15     written there, and the interpreters didn't hear this part of my question.

16             So could you please repeat your answer, since I've repeated it

17     myself.  But can you make out what is written there in the darker ink?

18        A.   No, I cannot.

19        Q.   Can you assist us with the following.

20             MS. KORNER:  Your Honours, if Mr. Krgovic is moving to another

21     document, in the light of the witness's answers, can I move now that that

22     document be fully exhibited, as opposed to being MFI'd?

23             JUDGE HALL:  Yes.  Admitted and marked.

24             THE REGISTRAR:  As Exhibit P123, Your Honours.

25             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] We're interested in 2D38, MFI.

Page 7284

 1     It's under 2 in the set of documents you have.

 2             Look at page 2 of the document.  There's a handwritten note which

 3     says on the 27th of August, 1991 ... there is something handwritten

 4     there.  Can you make out?

 5        A.   Next to number 11, 230.  That's an entry I made, in my own hand.

 6             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone.

 7             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]

 8        Q.   Can you please turn to page 2 of the document.

 9             We have the stamp there of the centre, and the signature of the

10     chief, Zupljanin; is that right?

11        A.   Yes.

12        Q.   And it does seem to be an authentic document from the period.

13        A.   Yes.

14             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I would like to have

15     this document fully exhibited now, the one that has been MFI'd, if there

16     are no objections.

17             MS. KORNER:  No objection at all, Your Honour.  I'm just trying

18     to, however, find the part by number 11 in which the witness said it was

19     the witness's writing.

20             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] That's in the original in a

21     handwritten number 11, 11-230.

22             MS. KORNER:  Thank you.  No objection.

23             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Can we have 2D40, MFI.

24        Q.   That's behind tab 4 for your benefit.

25             This is a 5th of December, 1991 report.  And can you please look

Page 7285

 1     at the last page of document.

 2             JUDGE HALL: [Microphone not activated] Before you go on, I don't

 3     think that the last item was formally entered.  So it's admitted and

 4     marked as an exhibit.

 5             THE REGISTRAR:  As Exhibit 2D38, Your Honours.

 6             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]

 7        Q.   Look at the last page of the document, please.  We have the seal,

 8     or the stamp of the centre, and Stojan Zupljanin's signature.  Is that

 9     right?

10        A.   Yes.

11        Q.   And next to SSUP under "copies delivered to," we have someone's

12     handwriting.  Do you know who it belongs to?

13        A.   I don't.

14        Q.   By its format and by the signature it bears, does it tally with

15     the documents you had occasion to see through your work at the

16     institution?

17        A.   Yes.  By the format and by the look of it, I should say it does,

18     but I have never seen this document before.

19        Q.   Thank you.

20             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone for counsel, please.

21             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] The next, 2D2026 -- 1264.  Can we

22     please have it on e-court.  2D02-1264.

23        Q.   Please take look at the document on your screen.  It will appear

24     any moment.

25             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] 2D02-1264.

Page 7286

 1        Q.   This is a dispatch.  I would like -- what I'm interested in is

 2     this designation 11-1/04-76.  11 was the designation of the

 3     communications centre.  Is that correct?

 4        A.   Yes.

 5        Q.   This went from this organ under the name of Stojan Zupljanin; is

 6     that correct?

 7        A.   That's correct.

 8        Q.   Which doesn't mean that Stojan Zupljanin signed this document

 9     personally.  Most probably, communications centre chief signed him, since

10     it comes from this organ.  Is that correct?

11        A.   I do not know who signed it.

12        Q.   One general question:  Once a document is brought to the

13     communications centre and handed over to the person working there, that

14     person cannot -- when typing the message, the dispatch, they cannot type

15     the signature; they cannot transfer the image of the document from the

16     original.  Is that correct?

17        A.   Communications centre cannot receive a dispatch to be sent if

18     it's not signed.

19        Q.   But when they do transfer it, they cannot transfer the original

20     signature.  It just inserts a signature block.  Is that correct?

21        A.   Yes, that's correct, just the signature block.

22        Q.   Although somebody else, pursuant to their authorisation, signed

23     the dispatch, the recipient cannot see at the place of destination what

24     the signature is.  Is that correct?

25        A.   That's -- that is something I don't know.

Page 7287

 1        Q.   Just another question:  You discussed the circumstances during

 2     war while you worked, and you mentioned the period where there were power

 3     cuts.  What I'm interested in:  Do you recall that, in 1992, when the

 4     corridor between Krajina and the rest of Bosnia-Herzegovina was cut off,

 5     there were longer power cuts and people would throw out the food from

 6     their refrigerators and their freezers because there was no electricity.

 7             Do you recall that?

 8        A.   Yes, I do.

 9        Q.   Was that in 1992?

10        A.   Yes.

11        Q.   Thank you, Witness.  This is -- this is all -- well, I apologise.

12     Just a second.

13             Thank you, I have no further questions for you.

14             JUDGE HALL:  Thank you, Mr. Krgovic.

15             Mr. Cvijetic.

16             MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I have no questions

17     for this witness.  Thank you.

18             JUDGE HALL:  Re-examination.

19             MS. KORNER:  I have only one matter to deal with in

20     re-examination.

21             Before that, however, I'm just wondering whether I can return to

22     the slightly vexed subject of whether Mr. Krgovic would like to suggest

23     to the witness, if that's the case, that the identification of

24     Mr. Zupljanin's voice is right or wrong.  It's returning to the old

25     question that I raised some weeks ago, but I do think, in the light of

Page 7288

 1     this witness, whether, if there is -- it is disputed, that ought to be

 2     made clear now.  I don't -- I don't think we're likely to have a better

 3     witness on that subject.

 4                           [Trial Chamber confers]

 5             JUDGE HARHOFF:  Ms. Korner, has this witness been confronted with

 6     the intercepts?

 7             MS. KORNER:  Yes.  Your Honour, you will recall that in the

 8     evidence in chief and in the proofing note, the witness listened to - and

 9     I gave the numbers - and positively identified -- identified is the wrong

10     word - I keep saying that - it's recognised the voice of Mr. Zupljanin.

11             JUDGE HARHOFF:  On how many tapes?  Forgive me for --

12             MS. KORNER:  I said it fairly quickly, so Your Honours can be

13     forgiven for forgetting it.

14             It's a total of - one, two, three, four - five.

15             JUDGE HARHOFF:  So you are now asking Mr. Krgovic to indicate

16  whether he will accept the witness's testimony that (redacted) did recognise

17     Stojan Zupljanin's voice on these five tapes?

18             MS. KORNER:  Exactly.  And I think it is appropriate.

19             MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, in the light of your

20     decisions date 16th of December and yesterday's decision concerning the

21     intercepts, I believe that we -- I have no need to stipulate in respect

22     of this witness.  I believe that this matter has been resolved in your

23     previous decisions, and we have the same situation that we used to have

24     before.

25             MS. KORNER:  Can I just say it's not quite the same,

Page 7289

 1     Your Honours.  Your Honours have admitted the intercepts; they are part

 2     of the evidence.  That, in itself, doesn't specifically deal with the

 3     accuracy or otherwise of who is speaking.

 4             And, in any event, it is -- this evidence, if nothing else, is

 5     solid, corroborative evidence of the evidence given by those who dealt

 6     with the intercepts.  And when Your Honours come to consider, at the end

 7     of the day, the weight that you attach to that evidence, this is, we

 8     submit, something that's quite important.

 9             I -- I'm not -- I don't want to re-argue all the matters I argued

10     last time.  I am merely raising it at this stage, because I think it is

11     appropriate.

12                           [Trial Chamber confers]

13             JUDGE HALL:  Ms. Korner, the -- as we recall the ruling that we

14     gave, and Mr. Krgovic's understanding of that ruling is consistent with

15     what we thought we had said, the -- if the Defence, for whatever reason,

16     chooses not to challenge or test this bit of evidence, the -- we would

17     have thought that the evidence stands and certain consequences would

18     follow.  I shouldn't say would.  Certain circumstances are likely to

19     follow.  And I would have thought that experienced Defence counsel would

20     be acutely aware of that.

21             MS. KORNER:  Yes, well -- I'm not going to labour the point.  I

22     just thought this was an appropriate time mention it again.

23                           Re-examination by Ms. Korner:

24        Q.   Witness, I just want, for a moment, to go back to the document

25     that you were asked about, which is P595, I think.  Yes.

Page 7290

 1             MS. KORNER:  And we'll need page 11 in the English, and page

 2     17 in B/C/S.

 3        Q.   And it's paragraph 5.1 that I want you to look at when it comes

 4     up on the screen.

 5             I'm afraid it's a very bad copy, so if we can try -- it's talking

 6     about -- and this is the 19 -- the six months of 1992, to June, the

 7     functioning of the communications system and the cryptographic

 8     protection.

 9             Now, I just want to, first of all, before we look at this, to see

10     whether we've all understood correctly.  The communications that you have

11     been calling dispatches were dealt with by the communications department,

12     is that right, under Mr. Rakovic?

13        A.   Yes.

14        Q.   But documents which were couriered --

15             MS. KORNER:  Sorry, could we go into private session for a

16     moment.

17             JUDGE HALL:  We move into private session.

18                           [Private session]

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

21   (redacted)

22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

Page 7291











11 Pages 7291-7293 redacted. Private session.















Page 7294

 1   (redacted)

 2   (redacted)

 3   (redacted)

 4   (redacted)

 5   (redacted)

 6   (redacted)

 7   (redacted)

 8   (redacted)

 9   (redacted)

10   (redacted)

11   (redacted)

12   (redacted)

13   (redacted)

14   (redacted)

15   (redacted)

16                           [Open session]

17             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, we're now in open session.

18             MS. KORNER:  Thank you.

19        Q.   Witness, this report refers to the reduced number of

20     professionals working in the CSB.  Is that something that you know about?

21        A.   I was not concerned with personnel policy, and I didn't know

22     anything about it.

23        Q.   I know you weren't concerned with personnel policy, but did you

24     yourself notice that people leaving --

25             MR. KRGOVIC:  Asked and answered.

Page 7295

 1             MS. KORNER:  No, no, we're not in America, thank you.

 2        Q.   Did you yourself notice that people were leaving?

 3        A.   I personally would, on occasions, know of somebody leaving; but

 4     that they were leaving en masse, no, I didn't know that.  Because work

 5     did not suffer.  It was done by the people who were doing the job.

 6        Q.   So you don't understand, then, the reference in this report to

 7     the reduced number of professionals, which, apparently, was also a

 8     problem?

 9        A.   Probably.

10        Q.   All right.  I won't pursue that further.

11             Then it talks about repairs and establishments of links where

12     there had not been any before in Donji Vakuf, Krupa, and Kupres SJBs and

13     then due to war operations, there were constant interruptions in

14     telephone and telegraph links with some SJBs; Kupres, Donji Vakuf, Krupa,

15     Glamoc, Bihac, Teslic, Grahovo, Drvar, Sipovo, Mrkonjic Grad.  From

16     your --

17             MS. KORNER:  Sorry.  I think back into private session, please,

18     for the next question.

19             JUDGE HALL:  Yes, private session.

20                           [Private session]

21   (redacted)

22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

Page 7296

 1   (redacted)

 2   (redacted)

 3   (redacted)

 4   (redacted)

 5   (redacted)

 6   (redacted)

 7   (redacted)

 8   (redacted)

 9   (redacted)

10                           [Open session]

11             JUDGE HALL:  Witness, we thank you for your appearance before the

12     Tribunal and the assistance that you have afforded.  And we wish that you

13     have a safe journey back to your home.

14             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

15             JUDGE HALL:  I take it that there are no matters that need engage

16     us further afternoon, in which case the witness need not be escorted out

17     of the court before the Court rises.  And we would take the adjournment

18     to ...

19                           [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]

20             JUDGE HALL:  I think it's Courtroom II on Monday morning at 9.00.

21     And I trust that everyone has a safe weekend.  Thank you.

22                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 3.27 p.m.,

23                           to be reconvened on Monday, the 8th day

24                           of March, 2010, at 9.00 a.m.