1 Friday, 26 November 2010
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.05 a.m.
5 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. Good morning to
6 everyone in and around the courtroom.
7 This is case IT-08-91-T, the Prosecutor versus Mico Stanisic and
8 Stojan Zupljanin.
9 Thank you, Your Honours.
10 JUDGE HALL: Thank you, Mr. Registrar.
11 Good morning to everyone.
12 May we have the appearances, please.
13 MR. RINDI: For the Office of the Prosecutor, Francesco Rindi,
14 Crispian Smith, and Tom Hannis.
15 MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honours. For
16 the Stanisic Defence, Slobodan Cvijetic and Melody Whittaker.
17 MR. KRGOVIC: Good morning, Your Honours. Dragan Krgovic and
18 Igor Pantelic appearing for Zupljanin Defence.
19 JUDGE HALL: Thank you.
20 MR. HANNIS: Your Honour, before -- if I may, before the first
21 witness comes in, there's just one housekeeping I wanted to bring to your
23 It's come to our attention that a particular exhibit, it was
24 original 65 ter 10217, it was presented to Witness ST-172 by Mr. Krgovic
25 and moved into evidence and admitted as Exhibit 2D33. At the time, it
1 was not broadcast because there was some concern or question about
2 whether or not it should be under seal, and indeed it should be under
3 seal. And that's my request, at this time, that it be so designated.
4 JUDGE HALL: Can you remind me whether we -- how remarked it at
5 the time of admission?
6 MR. HANNIS: [Microphone not activated] Your Honour, in the
7 transcript --
8 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone for the Prosecutor.
9 MR. HANNIS: -- I don't have the page reference, but it was
10 admitted and marked and the Registrar said, "as Exhibit 2D33." So it
11 appears it did not get designated as under seal at the time.
12 JUDGE HALL: So we now so make that order.
13 MR. HANNIS: Thank you very much.
14 JUDGE HALL: Thanks.
15 So is the Prosecution ready with its next witness?
16 MR. RINDI: Yes, Your Honours. And may I remind you that the
17 next witness has been granted protective measures by way of pseudonym and
18 face distortion.
19 JUDGE HALL: Thank you.
20 [The witness entered court]
21 [Trial Chamber confers]
22 JUDGE HALL: Good morning, sir. Would you be so kind as to make
23 the solemn declaration on the card that the usher is handing to you.
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will
25 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
1 WITNESS: ST-249
2 [Witness answered through interpreter]
3 JUDGE HALL: Thank you. You may be seated.
4 From your responses so far, I gather that you are hearing me in a
5 language that you understand; is that correct?
6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, that's correct.
7 JUDGE HALL: Well, welcome to the Tribunal. I would begin by
8 pointing out that the solemn declaration that you have just made imposes
9 upon you the obligation to speak the truth. And should you fail to do
10 so, you may be visited with the penalties which the Tribunal is empowered
11 by its Statute to impose for perjury, for persons who give misleading or
12 false testimony before the Tribunal.
13 Secondly, I would point out that you have been granted,
14 exceptionally, protective measures for reasons which the Tribunal has
15 been satisfied are good and valid reasons in your case, of image
16 and -- of image distortion and pseudonym. So that, whereas your
17 testimony, the content of your testimony, will be public as is the
18 evidence ordinarily led in the course of this trial, no one will be able
19 to identify you by your face. In other words, they wouldn't know who is
20 the person testifying. And, also, we will refer to you by the pseudonym,
21 which has been assigned, or you may be referred to as Mr. Witness. And
22 we mean no disrespect when we do that, that is, we are merely being
23 consistent with the pseudonym, the protective measures of pseudonym which
24 has been granted.
25 So I would invite you to look at the pseudonym sheet which the
1 usher will now hand to you, and if you're satisfied that the particulars
2 in terms of your name and date of birth are correct, if you would sign it
3 and hand it back to her, please.
4 So the pseudonym sheet is admitted under seal and marked.
5 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P01729, under seal, Your Honours.
6 JUDGE HALL: Now could we move into private session briefly,
8 [Private session]
11 Pages 17854-17856 redacted. Private session.
7 [Open session]
8 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're back in open session. Thank
10 MR. RINDI:
11 Q. While you were held in Trnopolje, did you notice who was guarding
12 the camp?
13 A. The Trnopolje camp was guarded by soldiers, members of the
14 Serb army.
15 Q. How could you tell? Did they wear a uniform?
16 A. The soldiers wore uniforms, olive-drab uniforms of the former
17 Yugoslav Army, with insignia.
18 Q. When you first arrived at the camp, can you tell us approximately
19 how many people were detained there?
20 A. On the day following my arrest, I had an opportunity to get out
21 of the clinic and walk about the camp, which was full of women, children,
22 and men. I made an assessment that -- or, rather, an estimate, that
23 there were about 4- to 5.000 people in the camp at the time.
24 Q. ST-249, you told us that you -- that there were women, children,
25 and men detained in the camp. Do you know what was the age range of the
1 people who were detained at the camp?
2 A. I saw people of all ages - from babies that were two to three
3 months old, children of all ages, pre-school children, school children,
4 young girls, grown women, men, and also elderly people who were as old
5 as 80.
6 Q. What was the ethnicity of the majority of detainees -- of the
8 A. Most detainees were Muslims from Kozarac.
9 Q. Sir, in the period going approximately from the 26th of May until
10 the first week of August 1992, were the detainees allowed to permanently
11 leave the camp?
12 A. The prisoners were not allowed to leave the camp. We were
13 imprisoned there and the guards did not let us leave the camp. There
14 were some exceptions at the time, though, but these were individual
16 Q. From August until October, were the detainees allowed to
17 permanently leave the camp?
18 A. After the arrival of the camp inmates from Keraterm and Omarska,
19 the Serb authorities wanted to reduce the number of prisoners and conceal
20 their state so that the representatives of western countries and the
21 International Red Cross don't see the state they were in. And that's why
22 individuals were allowed to leave the camp under certain conditions.
23 Q. Could you please describe to us what these conditions were.
24 A. There was a doctor, a Serb, at the camp, who was charged by the
25 Crisis Staff to issue certificates for people to be allowed to return to
1 Prijedor, especially those whose medical condition was serious. A
2 condition was that the person in question own a house or have family in
3 Prijedor, and one of the conditions was that they have a family member
4 fighting in the ranks of the Serb army at the front line and have a -- an
5 affidavit signed by a Serb.
6 One possible condition was also that the person in question
7 was -- had voluntarily given blood, and then they could be issued the
8 documents allowing them to go to Prijedor.
9 Q. You described that -- that certificates were issued. Who -- who
10 was signing these certificates?
11 A. The certificates or the permits, or, rather, the medical
12 documentation, was signed by Dr. Ivic. Then there was the president of
13 the Red Cross, Pero Curguz, and the Trnoplje camp commander,
14 Major Slobodan Kuruzovic.
15 Q. Thank you. You just mentioned that the camp commander was
16 Major Slobodan Kuruzovic. How did you understand that he was the camp
18 A. The first day we arrived in the camp, we were separated from the
19 other deported women and children on the bus and we were taken to see
20 Mr. Kuruzovic, who introduced himself and said that he was in charge of
21 the camp. Afterwards, he ordered the soldiers to take us to the medical
23 Q. Had you ever met him before?
24 A. I did not know Mr. Kuruzovic before these events.
25 Q. And can you tell us to which armed formation he belonged?
1 A. Considering the uniform that he wore, he was a member of the
3 Q. Sir, you told us about your arrest and that the majority of the
4 detainees held in the camp were Muslims. Do you know where these
5 detainees were coming from? Where were they living before being
7 A. Before the war, the detainees had lived in the area of Kozarac.
8 That's where they had their houses.
9 Q. Do you know what happened to those Muslims living in the Kozarac
10 area who were not arrested and brought to the -- to Trnopolje camp?
11 A. Could you please repeat your question?
12 Q. Certainly. You told us that the detainees that were with you in
13 the camp came from the Kozarac area. You also told us that the majority
14 of the population in Kozarac was of -- were -- were Muslims. I would
15 like to know, were all the Muslims arrested, or was -- was a part of the
16 Muslim population which -- that was not arrested and brought to the camp?
17 And I'm referring to the Muslim population living in the Kozarac area.
18 A. The combat units of the Serbian army primarily shelled the
19 northern part of Kozarac. If we divide the area into two halves, then it
20 was the northern part. And some of the people were expelled towards
21 Prijedor, the women and the children. And the men were separated and
22 taken to the Trnopolje, Omarska, or Keraterm camps. The other half of
23 the area, the southern part called Trnopolje, was shelled less. So the
24 local population managed to hide in the area, and they stayed at home.
25 Some of them probably fled to Prijedor, a smaller part.
1 Q. As a result of the attack that you just described, was the Muslim
2 population living in the Kozarac area reduced in numbers?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. When you were hand -- when you were held in Trnopolje camp, did
5 you ever overhear any camp official talking about the Muslims living in
6 the Prijedor area?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Can you tell us exactly what you heard in this regard.
9 A. One time, I entered the building of the Red Cross where the camp
10 administration was also located. I talked to members of the Red Cross,
11 whom I had met previously, and Major Kuruzovic was sitting not far from
12 me, together with his associates. There were some civilians there. They
13 were in a heated discussion. And at one point I heard that
14 Major Kuruzovic was asked several questions and he said that those people
15 whose houses had been destroyed would be sent outside, away from this
16 area, and that only ten per cent would be allowed to remain in the area.
17 Q. [Microphone not activated] Thank you.
18 Thank you. Do you remember approximately when you overheard this
20 A. That conversation was sometime in early June of 1992.
21 Q. How far were you from Major Kuruzovic and the other persons
22 participating to this conversation when you overheard it? Approximately,
23 of course.
24 A. I was about three to four metres away from them.
25 Q. And you told us that there were some civilians who participated
1 to this conversation. Do you know who they were? Have you ever seen
2 them before in the camp?
3 A. I remember that after I left the building of the Red Cross I saw
4 these civilians who had been sitting with the major in the yard in front
5 of the building. And a colleague of mine at the time who was with me
6 told me this civilian was the president of the Trnopolje local commune,
7 that -- of the local administration of the area.
8 Q. You told us that you were -- that this conversation took place in
9 the building belonging to the Red Cross, to the Serbian Red Cross. Can
10 you tell us why you were there at that time. Why did you go there?
11 A. I went there to buy some bread for our medical team at the
12 medical centre.
13 Q. Sir, you told us that present to this conversation were
14 Major Kuruzovic, and the civilians that you specified were, you
15 understood later, were members of the Trnopolje local commune, actually
16 the president of the local commune. Do you remember if there was anybody
17 else present to this conversation?
18 A. I believe that Pero Curguz was there as well. He had his back to
19 me. And several soldiers, but I didn't pay any attention to them.
20 Q. And who was Pero Curguz?
21 A. Mr. Pero Curguz was the president of the Serbian Red Cross in
23 Q. You told us what Kuruzovic said about reducing the number of
24 Muslims in Prijedor to ten per cent. While you were detained in
25 Trnopolje, did you hear anyone else talking about the number of Muslims
1 in Prijedor?
2 A. A few months later, sometime in September of 1992, I talked to a
3 Serbian soldier who was an exception, unlike the others, and we had had
4 closer contacts for a while. In that conversation, that soldier told me,
5 as we were discussing the situation in Prijedor, he said that certain
6 political structures in Prijedor are against even two per cent of Muslims
7 remaining in Prijedor.
8 Q. You -- you told us that this guard referred to certain political
9 structures. Did you understand what he was referring to? What were
10 these political structures?
11 A. The only political structure, after the takeover of power in
12 Prijedor in April of 1992, was the SDS, which is the
13 Serbian Democratic Party, and their executive organ, the Crisis Staff.
14 There were basically no other political parties or political structures
15 there at the time.
16 Q. And to your knowledge for what reasons they wanted to reduce the
17 number of Muslims living in Prijedor to two per cent?
18 A. The politics of the SDS before the conflict was clear. The
19 Serbian politicians, starting with Mr. Karadzic, Ms. Plavsic, and others,
20 clearly said that they did not want the Serbs to live together with the
21 Muslims and said that the Serbs and Muslims could only live next to each
22 other. All the events that happened in Prijedor and in other parts of
23 Bosnia meant the implementation of the politics that was advocated by the
24 SDS. The politics was to implement the plans to expel the Muslims from
25 certain areas which they considered to be Serbian areas.
1 Q. And to your knowledge was this -- you talked about this plan.
2 Was this plan implemented in the Prijedor area?
3 A. The plan of so-called ethnic cleansing in the Prijedor area was
4 completely achieved. Their wish was fully realized.
5 Q. And by what means did -- was this plan implemented?
6 A. The plan was implemented through combat, that is, with the attack
7 of combat units, against the unarmed Bosnian Muslims. Then by locking
8 them up during the combat operations in the camps, by causing fear, by
9 committing rape, by beating, by locking people in camps, and by deporting
10 the local population to parts of Bosnia which were under the control of
11 the Bosnian army.
12 Q. And do you know which forces implemented this plan that you just
14 MR. KRGOVIC: Your Honour, at this point I must object. It's so
15 broad. This witness should testify about the specific adjudicated fact.
16 He's not military analyst or some sort of this -- some expert to explain
17 the plans. I think it's too broad.
18 MR. RINDI: Your Honour, if I may reply.
19 It is the submission of the Prosecution that this line of
20 questioning should be allowed because it's directly relevant to the
21 rejected adjudicated facts to which the witness -- about which the
22 witness is testifying.
23 As Your Honours know, these conversations that he overheard are
24 extremely important because they fit into the Prosecution's theory of the
25 case that there was indeed a plan to expel the non-Serbs from the
1 Prijedor area. So it is very important for the witness -- for
2 Your Honours to -- I mean, it is very important to establish the veracity
3 of the conversations that he overheard. Were they just veiled threats;
4 were they just the ideas expressed by the persons making the speeches; or
5 were they actually makes reference to an actual plan.
6 And the witness is competent and can talk about that. I'm not
7 asking him any details, any military details.
8 MR. KRGOVIC: Not in his summary. It's not what the witness is
9 supposed to testify. He's supposed to tell about a specific adjudicated
10 fact. This not -- what was prior to the war, what the member of the SDS
11 said, or some sort of this. I mean, it's not part of adjudicated fact.
12 [Trial Chamber confers]
13 JUDGE HALL: Please proceed, Mr. Rindi.
14 MR. RINDI:
15 Q. You just --
16 JUDGE HARHOFF: Mr. Krgovic, just to explain a bit. The
17 reasoning of the Chamber is that the questions put by the Prosecutor do,
18 in fact, go directly to the denied adjudicated facts. So it is within
19 the realm of that particular fact. Thanks.
20 MR. RINDI:
21 Q. Mr. Witness, you were -- you just told us about the
22 implementation of this plan. Do you know what forces implemented this
23 plan, to ethnically cleanse the Prijedor area?
24 A. Army and police forces from the area of Prijedor municipality.
25 Q. You told us that you were -- that you were held in Trnopolje camp
1 together with men, women, children, and then the elderly people. You
2 also told us that most of the detainees were non-Serbs. When you were
3 detained in Trnopolje camp, did any camp official officially explain to
4 you why you -- you had been -- you were detained there, had you been
5 arrested and detained there? Was there any official explanation?
6 A. There was no official explanation, of course. But from talking
7 to them, their story was that they were keeping us Muslims in Trnopolje
8 from attacks by Muslim extremists which might come from the woods. That
9 was what they said.
10 Q. To your knowledge, were the Muslims in Trnopolje -- were the
11 detainees in Trnopolje in danger of an attack by Muslim extremists?
12 A. Such a danger, of course, is absurd. There was no such danger.
13 Nobody would ever attack their own people.
14 Q. While you were at the camp, was the camp ever attacked by Muslim
16 A. It was not.
17 Q. Were detainees interrogated while held at the camp?
18 A. Some of them were.
19 MR. KRGOVIC: [Previous translation continues] ... this specific
20 adjudicated fact.
21 JUDGE HALL: Yes, Mr. Rindi, you have wondered outside of the
22 adjudicated fact.
23 MR. RINDI:
24 Q. Mr. Witness, you told us about what the -- the explanation that
25 you had been given as to why you were detained was. Did you understand
1 what the real purpose of Trnopolje camp was?
2 A. Of course. The real purpose of the Trnopolje camp was to expel
3 the local population from their homes and to then expel them based on a
4 plan which the Serbian leading structures in the area had.
5 If we follow the sequence of events, and which I was
6 unfortunately able to follow, they weren't working at random. There was
7 a clear plan which they followed. It was a clear plan.
8 Q. Mr. Witness, while you were detained at Trnopolje camp, did you
9 ever hear any detainee talking about Stojan Zupljanin?
10 MR. KRGOVIC: Your Honour, I object to that. It's not
11 [indiscernible] to the specified adjudicated fact.
12 JUDGE HALL: Mr. Rindi.
13 MR. RINDI: Your Honours, this is a matter which arose during the
14 proofing of the witness, and I believe I should be allowed to lead this
15 evidence because is -- it's extremely relevant, as it shows the direct
16 involvement of the accused in Trnopolje. And also it shows that the
17 detainees were not free to move out of the camp. This is a matter which
18 arose in -- during proofing.
19 JUDGE HALL: Well, you've led evidence about their not -- their
20 movements being restricted. That -- and you needn't return to that. But
21 this ...
22 No, Mr. Rindi, you must confine yourself to the adjudicated
24 MR. RINDI: Your Honours, I have one last question -- a few last
25 questions. I would need to move to a private session.
1 JUDGE HALL: Yes.
2 [Private session]
1 [Open session]
2 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're back in open session. Thank
4 Cross-examination by Mr. Krgovic:
5 Q. [Interpretation] Good morning, sir.
6 A. Good morning.
7 Q. Let me introduce myself for the record. My name it is
8 Dragan Krgovic. I represent Mr. Zupljanin. And I will ask you about
9 some topics that you discussed with the Prosecutor this morning.
10 Since the two of us understand each other - we speak what used to
11 be the same language and now I can say it's a similar language - I would
12 like to ask you, since I speak rather quickly, when you hear my question
13 make a short pause before you answer so that the interpreters could
14 interpret my question and your answer adequately.
15 A. All right.
16 Q. Let me go back to the beginning of your testimony when you talked
17 about Kozarac.
8 MR. RINDI: Your Honour, may I suggest maybe to go to private
9 session. There were a number of information which were given which might
10 potentially identify the witness, so ...
11 JUDGE HALL: [Overlapping speakers] ... I agree. I agree,
12 Mr. Rindi. Thank you.
13 MR. KRGOVIC: Yeah.
14 JUDGE HALL: We probably have to redact a portion of the
16 [Private session]
13 [Open session]
14 JUDGE DELVOIE: Thank you.
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] You're welcome.
16 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, I just want to mention for the
17 record that we went back in open session on page -- transcript
18 page 23, line 25. Thank you, Your Honours.
19 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Can we go back to private session
20 just for me to put a follow-up question to the question asked by
21 Judge Delvoie.
22 [Private session]
8 [Open session]
9 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're back in open session.
10 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]
11 Q. Sir, speaking of this subject, you mentioned the ultimatum. You
12 know that Colonel Zeljaja was the one who announced this ultimatum to the
13 people of Kozarac, asking them to surrender their weapons, as well as the
14 people who were suspected of having taken part in the attacks on the JNA?
15 A. I am not aware of the fact whether it was done by the late
16 Colonel Zeljaja. I don't know who was it who issued this ultimatum.
17 Q. The request was made for the weapons to be turned in, as well as
18 the people suspected of having attacked the Yugoslav People's Army.
19 A. Which attack are you referring to?
20 Q. The attacks on Hambarine and Kozarac, and also at the convoy in
21 Kozarac, which preceded the attack on Kozarac.
22 A. Sir, as far as I know, there was no attack launched against any
24 Q. And you also don't know that prior to the 24th, as you said, a
25 couple of days before that, a military column was attacked in Hambarine,
1 resulting in the death of several soldiers who were on their way back
2 from Knin and that a number of them were taken prisoner.
3 A. I know that in the village of Hambarine, an armed conflict took
4 place, but there is no connection between Hambarine and Kozarac
5 whatsoever, because they are 15 kilometres apart, as you may know.
6 Q. Do you know that a number of people from Hambarine withdrew to
7 Kozarac and that some of them who sustained injuries during the attack by
8 the Muslim TO were accommodated in the medical centre in Kozarac?
9 A. I can ascertain that this is a fabrication.
10 Q. And you also don't know that on the main road between Prijedor
11 and Banja Luka, in the area of Kozarac, an incident occurred in which a
12 Serb soldier was killed?
13 A. No. The Serbs sent a tank to the intersection in Kozarac. There
14 were no incidents.
15 Q. Do you know that before the attack on Kozarac, fire was opened
16 from a Zolja wounding one soldier?
17 A. No, I don't.
18 Q. And after that the tank was withdrawn from that intersection.
19 A. I don't know about any attack. There was no attack at all, sir.
20 Q. Sir, you will agree with me that before this conflict in
21 Hambarine and the incident in Kozarac, in the area of Prijedor
22 municipality there were no armed conflicts; is that right?
23 A. Not that I'm aware of.
24 Q. Do you know that in Kozarac the Territorial Defence units were
25 set up which, alongside the Kozarac police, established the so-called
1 unit for the defence of Kozarac?
2 A. The Kozarac TO unit, as well as that of the entire Prijedor
3 municipality, as far as I know, had been activated months before the
4 attack. That was an official defence of Prijedor, due to the prevailing
5 political situation. That was officially done because our lads, who were
6 members of the TO, were engaged, keeping guard in Prijedor itself.
7 So it was related to proper orders that were being issued. It
8 has nothing to do with the defence of Kozarac.
9 Q. Therefore, you don't know that in May of 1992, when you returned
10 to Kozarac from Banja Luka, a special TO unit was set up there?
11 A. As I said, I am not familiar with proper details, given that I
12 was not in the area at the time.
13 Q. Do you know that immediately after these incidents, on the
14 22nd and 24th - I'm talking about Hambarine and Kozarac
15 respectively - the Muslim and Croat TO unit led by Slavko Ecimovic
16 attacked Prijedor in an attempt to take over the town of Prijedor, on the
17 30th of May?
18 A. I heard of that event, but I'm not familiar with the details. As
19 far as I can remember, that happened, yes, on the 30th of May.
1 A. Yes, I do.
2 Q. And I'm sure you know that a number of residents of Puharska,
3 Trnopolje, and Kamicani who had come to Trnopolje returned home after
4 certain period of time?
5 A. Women and children were moved from Trnopolje to Prijedor, those
6 who had originally come to Prijedor; and at the request of the medical
7 centre, a number of women and children, with the approval of
8 Mr. Kuruzovic, left the camp itself and found shelter in the houses
9 surrounding the camp and in the village of Sivci. That was an attempt to
10 help these women and children.
11 Q. Now, apart from the reason given by the leadership in Trnopolje,
12 they also said that it was unsafe for the Muslims and Croats to live in
13 the surrounding villages because there was a danger from the Serbian
14 extremists who were attacking and robbing the Muslims and the Croats.
15 A. The Serbs extremists launched attacks, there is no doubt about
16 that, and that posed a significant danger to the local population.
17 Q. And you certainly know that a number of people who were at
18 Trnopolje in June and were sent home requested to be admitted to
19 Trnopolje again.
20 A. No, I don't know anything about that. Why would they do that?
21 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Could we please show 2D03-1431 to
22 the witness, please.
23 Q. Sir, this is a list, and the date you see here is the
24 9th of June, a list of persons who would return to Trnopolje. Please
25 look where these people are from. Trnopolje, Kamicani, Suhi Brod.
1 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] May -- we can turn to the next
3 Q. On this page we see a number of people from Kozarac.
4 Do you know Halid Grozdanic from Kozarac, sir?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Or somebody from his family Dildana [phoen], Zinajda, and Emina?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Do you know a Nura Mujkanovic from Kozarac?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Look at these people from Kozarac: Fazlic, Hodzic, Paratusic,
11 Murcehajic, Kenjar, Denic. Do you know of any of these people?
12 A. Well, some of the names are familiar. I believe that they are
13 from Kozarac, judging by their family names. Many of them certainly.
14 Q. Did you see them at Trnopolje?
15 A. I may have seen some. I can't remember the names of all persons
16 I saw. Could we ...
17 Q. Should we enlarge?
18 A. No, not necessary.
19 Q. Would you like us to go to private session?
20 A. No, no.
21 Thousands of people went through those camps, so I can't remember
22 whom I saw what -- at what time. That's the problem.
23 Q. But judging by their names, these people are from Kozarac?
24 A. Well, judging by the names, it is possible that most of them are
25 from Kozarac or the surrounding area.
1 Q. There are also people from Kevljani and Kozarusa. Where are
2 these places with respect to Kozarac?
3 A. If we look from the centre of Kozarac, Kevljani is to the
4 south-east, whereas Kozarusa is in the west, toward Prijedor.
5 Q. Are Kevljani and Kozarusa part of the wider area of Kozarac?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. You remember that this document was shown to you in the
8 Sikirica case?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. You commented on it then.
11 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I seek to tender this
13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] But, for the sake of truth, can I
14 explain this document?
15 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]
16 Q. Yes, go ahead.
17 A. At the beginning of the document, there was a name: Cela. That
18 was on page 1. That's a Muslim settlement between Hambarine and
19 Rinjak [phoen], or Kozarac, you see here. Well, the crucial question
20 that arises from this document is not whether they were -- wanted to
21 return to Trnopolje but, rather, it is how these people ever came to
22 Cela. That's the problem.
23 These people, on the first day after the surrender, were first
24 expelled from their houses, or Kozarac, in an organised fashion. They
25 were expelled in the direction of Prijedor, and from Prijedor they were
1 expelled to Cela. And Cela was a Muslim village, and the Muslim
2 population accepted them and took care of them. These inhabitants on
3 this list did not know what was happening in Kozarac in the meantime.
4 They didn't know how people lived there. And that -- they probably
5 expressed the wish to return to their homes. They were not in a position
6 to know that their homes had been largely destroyed. This is the real
7 truth that is -- of which this document is proof.
8 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I believe it is time
9 for the break, and I can return to this document later. But in the
10 meantime I seek to tender it.
11 JUDGE HALL: [Previous translation continues] ... yes, Mr. -- and
12 we would rule on that application after the break.
13 We would return in 20 minutes.
14 [The witness stands down]
15 --- Recess taken at 10.28 a.m.
16 --- On resuming at 11.02 a.m.
17 [Trial Chamber confers]
18 [The witness takes the stand]
19 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]
20 Q. We were dealing with this document. And as far as I understood
21 your testimony, this is about persons from the area of Kozarac who, after
22 the attack on Kozarac, fled and found themselves in the village of Cela
23 at that moment; right?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And you know that a number of people in June were staying at
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. You said that after the attack on Kozarac some of these people
4 came to Prijedor and were transferred to Cela from there; right?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And the person, the contact person, is Mehmed Solo. Do you know
7 that he was the president of the local commune at Cela?
8 A. No, I don't know that.
9 Q. And among these people there were some who, before that, were at
10 Trnopolje; right?
11 A. I cannot be sure. I know that from Trnopolje camp, in the early
12 days, two buses with women and little children left Trnopolje because of
13 the disastrous conditions prevailing at the time. But whether or not
14 somebody from this list was there, I really cannot say.
15 Q. And this document is titled: List of persons who would return to
16 Trnopolje. Which means that these are people who would like to return
17 there. That's what follows from this document. Correct?
18 A. These expelled persons were not aware of the current situation at
19 Kozarac. I suppose that they wanted to go to their homes, rather than to
20 the camp.
21 Q. But it follows from this document that these people want to
22 return to Trnopolje.
23 A. That's what the document states.
24 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I believe that now
25 the document can be admitted. And this document was admitted through
1 this witness in the Sikirica case.
2 MR. RINDI: Your Honours, I object to the admission of this
3 document. We don't know who authored this document and where it came
4 from. And the fact that it was previously admitted through him does not
5 necessarily mean that it has to be admitted in this case.
6 [Trial Chamber confers]
7 JUDGE HALL: Before the Chamber rules, Mr. Krgovic, we appreciate
8 that the witness has accepted your -- has inferentially accepted your
9 interpretation that the document which -- the English translation of
10 which, on the screen, the caption is, "List of persons who would return
11 to Trnopolje," that it is intended to convey persons who wanted to return
12 to Trnopolje. But couldn't -- we wonder if we could have the benefit of
13 the interpreters who, if they have the -- if you could read the original
14 B/C/S and see what the interpreters make of -- of the caption, please.
15 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] I can read this out, Your Honours.
16 "List of persons who would, or would like to, return to
18 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's remark: It can be interpreted
19 either way.
20 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] In Serbo-Croatian this is pretty
21 clear. This is something in between "would" and "would like." So I
22 understand the interpreter's difficulty in interpreting this. In the
23 Serbo-Croatian language as it was, this is clear. But when it's
24 translated into English, it's more tricky. But it's a part of a set of
25 documents from Trnopolje.
1 I will show the witness another document, which is also stamped,
2 and it is another document from this set from Trnopolje itself and it
3 speaks about the persons detained there. I owe this explanation to the
4 Trial Chamber about the author as far as I was able to find out, but I
5 don't want to testify now. That's why I asked the witness about the
6 person who drafted this list and whose phone number can be found on this
8 [Trial Chamber confers]
9 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] In the Serbian version we can see
10 it, but it hasn't been translated, so it will have to be translated.
11 There's a phone number up there, 28-964. And below that we read
12 "Solo Mehmed" in the upper right-hand corner. He's the contact person.
13 JUDGE HALL: Yes, but even so, the appearance of that name on the
14 original of the document, does it - without there being some evidence
15 from somewhere or other as to who that is - in terms of dealing the
16 problem Mr. Rindi raised about provenance, we still are no clearer as to
17 the authorship, Mr. Krgovic.
18 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I received this
19 document as admitted in a previous case, the Sikirica case, where it was
20 an exhibit, and it is part of the disclosure that we got from the OTP
21 before the testimony of this witness. It's a number of documents from
22 Trnopolje that were admitted through this witness in the Sikirica case.
23 I can offer the Trial Chamber no more than that and the
24 transcript of that case. But the document is certainly relevant; It's
25 part of a set of documents. But I can show the witness another document
1 and then we may be able to see the link better, and perhaps then you can
3 JUDGE HALL: Yes, please proceed.
4 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Let us show the witness
5 Exhibit 2D03-1439.
6 Q. If you remember, before the break I asked you about the
7 inhabitants of Puharska, and you may know that some of them were at
8 Trnopolje and that they returned from Trnopolje.
9 So some people from Puharska were at Trnopolje; did you know
11 A. I know that many people from Kozarac were at the village of
12 Puharska and in other areas populated by Muslims. Whether or not anybody
13 from Puharska was supposed to return to Kozarac and then to Trnopolje,
14 well, I suppose that this is about people who were also from Kozarac who
15 were also expelled in the early days and found temporary refuge in
16 Prijedor and at Puharska. And, certainly, the desire of all these people
17 was always to return to their homes. That's how I interpret this
19 Q. And based on the last names you conclude that these are people
20 from the Kozarac area; right?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And can you see that there's a stamp of the Red Cross and a
23 signature of the Staff for Refugees; right?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. The title is: List of persons who are returning to Trnopolje.
1 It is clear from this document that these people want to return to
2 Trnopolje; right? That's what this document says?
3 A. Yes, to go to Trnopolje. It says to return --
4 JUDGE DELVOIE: Mr. Krgovic, I have -- I have a hesitation here.
5 Are we talking about Trnopolje as a village, a hamlet; or are we talking
6 about Trnopolje as a camp, as the camp site?
7 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honours. It's the camp.
8 Underneath, you can see the signature of another person and you see that
9 is Slobodan Kuruzovic who is the camp commander in Trnopolje. On the
10 left-hand side can you see his name.
11 JUDGE DELVOIE: [Previous translation continues] ... because if I
12 remember well, the witness, in the beginning of his statement, talked
13 about Trnopolje as part of whatever village or hamlet it was.
14 So is this a list of persons, if -- if we -- we had -- we had to
15 accept that it was a list of persons who would like to return to
16 Trnopolje, is that a list of persons who would like to return to the camp
17 of Trnopolje or who would like to return to the hamlet or village of
18 Trnopolje? Did they live there?
19 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, the witness answered
20 and said that these people were from Kozarac, accommodated in Puharska,
21 and they were now returning to Trnopolje, but not to the village. You
22 can see from this form there is the Staff for Refugees on one side and on
23 the other side there is the type-signed name of Slobodan Kuruzovic, who
24 was the commander of the centre at Trnopolje. And you can see at the
25 end: "It is required to confirm the identity of persons while entering
1 the buses."
2 So it was an organised transport.
3 Q. And just one question to the witness. Please tell us:
4 Slobodan Kuruzovic, is that the Major Kuruzovic that you talked about as
5 commander in Trnopolje?
6 A. Yes. But one remark: Mr. Slobodan Kuruzovic was a member of the
7 Prijedor Crisis Staff, so he decided about all the issues and the
8 measures, or actions, which were necessary to pass decisions in relation
9 to the return of people or any other events in the area.
10 And if I might add, to clarify the situation, I'm a
11 hundred per cent certain that these people wanted to return to their
12 homes in the Kozarac area. However, since Kozarac was destroyed at the
13 time, they knew this; they knew they couldn't return there. So they
14 wanted to return to Trnopolje village; not the camp but to the village,
15 to the neighbouring houses, which were still inhabited by Muslims at the
16 time. We can see the date: 7 June, 8 June. At that time, those villages
17 were still inhabited and they were around the camp.
18 JUDGE HALL: Mr. Rindi wanted to make an intervention.
19 MR. RINDI: I also would like to notice that the document is not
20 signed by Slobodan Kuruzovic. It was just a type-signed -- the typed
21 name, but it's not signed by him.
22 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] That's what I said. I believe that
23 there's only a typed signature.
24 [Trial Chamber confers]
25 JUDGE HALL: Do I understand, Mr. Krgovic, that the document that
1 is presently on the screen is a companion document to the earlier
3 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honours.
4 JUDGE HALL: And your application is to have both admitted?
5 MR. KRGOVIC: Both admitted as one document.
6 JUDGE HALL: As one document.
7 The Chamber agrees. Admitted and marked.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honour, document IDs 2D03-1431 and 2D03-1439
9 are both admitted as Exhibit 2D00130. Thank you, Your Honours.
10 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]
11 Q. Sir, another question related to this: Do you know that, apart
12 from these people from the Red Cross and the soldiers who were in
13 Trnopolje, there were other Muslims who worked to supply food, to assist
14 during cleaning or the accommodation of prisoners, that there were people
15 who came to Trnopolje?
16 A. As far as I recall, when the Serbian Red Cross first came to
17 Trnopolje, during those first days, there was a Muslim woman - she said
18 she was a Muslim woman - and all the others were Serbs.
19 Q. And do you know that the 4th, "Cetvrti Juli," or
20 4th July Company, and the Trnopolje local commune, some people from there
21 assisted people from Trnopolje?
22 A. Could you please be more specific, sir?
23 Q. I'll show you a document.
24 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Could the witness be shown
1 Q. Did you know that the local Red Cross from Trnopolje was assisted
2 by these people and that they went to Trnopolje? For example,
3 Mustafa Galmocanin.
4 A. This document is actually proof of the fact that the people who
5 were on this list were employed in the local municipal organisation
6 called 4 July and that before the conflict they had earned their salary,
7 which they were unable to take out in the bank because Kozarac was
8 surrounded and we were unable to leave the area of Kozarac and go to
9 Prijedor to the bank, because the bank was there. As a comprise,
10 somebody picked up this money, picked up their salary, as it says in the
11 header: Payment of salary. The abbreviation is for salary. For the
12 work. And then the municipal was given to these people in the camp.
13 These people were detainees.
14 Q. So if we understand the document correctly, these are people from
15 Kozarac; right?
16 A. Yes, these are people from Kozarac.
17 Q. And they worked in the municipal company, 4 July. And they were
18 in Trnopolje in late July 1992; right?
19 A. Probably.
20 Q. And did these people work on maintenance, municipal maintenance,
21 in Trnopolje?
22 A. No. They were regular detainees.
23 Q. But they received salary for their work while they were in
25 A. They received their salary for work they had done before the
1 conflict. And the money was in the bank, and they were unable to take it
3 Q. So somebody took the money in the bank and then brought it there,
4 probably somebody from the administration or somebody else who was
5 authorised, and then that person brought the money to Trnopolje, and
6 based on the signatures, they received the money?
7 A. Yes, that's how it probably was.
8 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I would like to
9 tender this document.
10 JUDGE HALL: Admitted and marked.
11 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, as Exhibit 2D00131. Thank you.
12 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]
13 Q. Sir, let's go back to a specific issue.
14 In answering the question of the Prosecutor regarding the
15 conversation in which Major Kuruzovic participated, you said that you saw
16 the representative of the local commune in front of the office of the
17 Red Cross. The office of the Red Cross was across the road from the
18 cultural centre, so to speak, which was in Trnopolje; it was there when
19 you crossed the road. Right?
20 A. The building of the Red Cross at the time was located in a former
21 cafe, inside the complex that also housed the cinema hall.
22 Q. Wasn't the building of the Red Cross across the road?
23 A. They later moved to that building that was across the road, after
24 the camp had been in existence for a while.
25 Q. Do you know when?
1 A. I don't recall the exact date, but it was sometime in
2 July of 1992.
3 Q. And the person who you described as being from the Trnopolje
4 local commune was sitting with Kuruzovic in front of the cultural centre
5 or in front of the other building?
6 A. He was sitting in this cafe which housed the administration and
7 the Red Cross. They were inside.
8 Q. And when you talked about this conversation that he had, he was
9 inside or outside?
10 A. He was outside. And he was talking there with some other people.
11 Q. And when you heard this commentary made by Major Kuruzovic, apart
12 from the people who were there, Pero Curguz, whom you mentioned, for
13 example, were there other people there, in that room, from the Red Cross?
14 A. Other members of the Red Cross were in that room. Some young
15 girls who were selling bread to the camp inmates.
16 Q. Was a woman called Ljubica, who was working for the Red Cross,
17 there at the time?
18 A. I know the person. She did work for the Red Cross. But I can't
19 recall whether she was there at that moment.
20 Q. You remember that you gave a statement to the Prosecution at --
21 at the beginning of these events. That was sometime in 1998. If you
22 want me to read out the part where you talk about who was present, I can
23 do that, just to refresh your memory, and can you confirm whether you
24 remember that.
25 MR. RINDI: Your Honours, if I may, this was not a statement that
1 the witness subscribed, if I'm not mistaken. It was never adopted by the
2 witness. So it was just an internal compilation. It was not a signed
3 statement by the witness.
4 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] I have no intention of tendering
5 it. I merely want to refresh the witness's memory to see whether he
6 remembers this. That was all I wanted to do, to read out this part.
7 JUDGE HALL: I'm wondering whether, instead of it being read out,
8 the witness - assuming it's in a language that he understands - shouldn't
9 just be handed the statement and then you can ask your question.
10 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] I can do that.
11 Your Honours, it's page 9 in the Serbian version. If I could
12 just give it to the witness to read the underlined bits.
13 JUDGE HALL: Yes, Mr. Rindi.
14 MR. RINDI: Your Honours, the witness never gave this statement.
15 It was never subscribed by the witness. And I think he should just be
16 asked questions without showing him the statement, because it was never
17 really adopted by the statement -- adopted by the witness, nor it was
18 re-read. It is not a proper statement in the sense of the word.
19 JUDGE HALL: I haven't lost your objection along that line. But
20 although the -- as an historical fact, it may not have been adopted by
21 him by way of being signed, if the -- it was but for the absence of his
22 signature an account of what he would have reported, it is something
23 which I see no reason why it can't be - it isn't being put in evidence -
24 why he can't be shown it. Because one of the factors in this trial is
25 that we're dealing with testimony of events that would have occurred a
1 fairly long time ago.
2 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation]
3 Q. Sir, please read the part which is underlined, those two
5 MR. RINDI: Can counsel please indicate where in the English
6 version that is, please.
7 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Unfortunately, I received from the
8 Prosecution what's page 9 in the B/C/S, and it's not in e-court. I
9 believe it's page 8 in English, as far as I can see. It's the
10 paragraph that the witness talked about. It relates to the conversation
11 Kuruzovic had.
12 Q. Sir, have you read this portion?
13 A. Yes, I have.
14 Q. Do you recall talking to the Prosecutor back then, in 1998?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And here you mention a certain Ljubica who was there. Do you
17 remember now that she was in the room when this conversation took place?
18 A. When I gave this statement, I said that she was in the room but
19 she was not in the group who conducted conversation.
20 Q. How big is the room?
21 A. It was a former restaurant or a cafe. 25 to 30 square metres.
22 Q. And where were you standing in regard to where Ljubica was
24 A. When I entered the room, on my left were the girls from the
25 Red Cross who were selling bread. And on the right-hand side were
1 sitting the group, including the major, and they were talking.
2 Q. And you were close to the table where the girls were.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And they were able of hearing the same thing that you heard.
5 A. Yes. Provided that they listened.
6 Q. And at that time there was no mention of Prijedor. The only
7 topic of the conversation was Kozarac. Is that right?
8 A. As I said, I entered the room. I don't know what they had been
9 talking about before that. All I heard was just one segment of the
10 conversation. That's the situation that prevailed on the ground at the
11 time. Nobody knew what was going to happen with the people who were in
12 the camp and in the surrounding area.
13 The representative of the local commune -- and I must impart this
14 information to this Tribunal. Before and during the conflict, agreement
15 was reached between the local Serb and Muslim populations in Trnopolje
16 not to attack each other and to hand in the weapons. The Serbs promised
17 their neighbours that they would not attack them and that they would
18 guarantee their safety. My assumption is that this particular member of
19 the local commune, alongside Major Kuruzovic, wanted to continue the
20 discussion about further actions regarding the local population.
21 Q. If you look at the last sentence concerning what Kuruzovic said,
22 you say that he didn't mention any specific area; therefore, the
23 ten per cent that he mentioned did not refer to any specific area,
24 according to him?
25 A. Yes, that's correct. Mr. Kuruzovic did not say specifically
1 whether he was talking about the area of Kozarac or Prijedor
3 Q. Or perhaps the entire territory of Republika Srpska.
4 A. I don't know that.
5 Q. Sir, are you aware that after a certain period of time
6 representatives of the Red Cross came to Trnopolje sometime in the month
7 of August?
8 A. Yes. Representatives of the International Red Cross came to
9 Trnopolje in August.
10 Q. And do you know that there was a proposal made by the ECMM for
11 the residents of Trnopolje to be evacuated to third countries through
12 mediation of the Red Cross, and they reached this conclusion on the basis
13 of what they saw in Trnopolje?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And eventually you yourself left under the auspices of the
16 Red Cross; is that correct?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Thank you.
19 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I have no further
20 questions for this witness.
21 I just apologise. I forgot one topic, and I've just been
22 reminded of that. One question only.
23 Q. If you can, you said that after this meeting a soldier told you
24 that some political structures in Prijedor were stating that this
25 percentage of the Muslim population could even be smaller, up to
1 two per cent.
2 Can you tell the name of that soldier? And if you can't do it in
3 an open session, we can move to a private session.
4 A. I cannot give you his name. He was an exceptional man. He
5 was -- distinguished himself from all other guards. Before the war, he
6 was a police officer with the State Security Department, and we had close
7 relationships with him.
8 The situation that we discussed on that occasion was
9 confidential, and it pertained to the migration or the moving out of the
10 population of Prijedor and the efforts of the Serbian authorities to
11 evacuate them or, rather, to move them out, by bringing them to Trnopolje
12 and thereby exert pressure on the Red Cross so that the Red Cross would
13 take care of them and move them to thirty countries. He himself was
14 against such a policy.
15 MR. KRGOVIC: Can we go to the private session, Your Honour.
16 JUDGE HALL: Yes.
17 [Private session]
11 Pages 17897-17906 redacted. Private session.
15 [Open session]
16 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're back in open session. Thank
18 MR. RINDI: Your Honours, before we adjourn for the day, may I
19 request that a certain portions of the transcript be redacted? There's
20 information that might identify this witness.
21 JUDGE HALL: Well, the -- I recall that there was a point at
22 which you pointed out that we should go into private session and we think
23 we had picked it all up, but if there are other portions which would you
24 wish to draw your attention to, certainly, Mr. Rindi.
25 MR. RINDI: Yes. I reviewed the transcript, and I would request
1 that the following portions of the transcript be redacted:
2 It's page 20, line 6, until page 22, line 23. And then there's
3 page 24, line 1, until page 24, line 25. And, finally, page 28, line 7,
4 until 28, line 9.
5 Thank you, Your Honours.
6 JUDGE HALL: Thank you. I'll ask the Court Officer to compare
7 that with the ones we've already done before we rise. And if so, we
8 would so redact it.
9 The Chamber has a oral Ruling to give and then a number of
11 The oral Ruling is as following:
12 The Chamber is seized of the Prosecution's motion of the
13 12th of November for leave to add to its exhibit list six documents to be
14 used with ST-244, who is scheduled on testify on Wednesday, the
15 1st of December. On the 22nd of November, the Chamber requested the
16 Defence respond on the 24th of -- on 24 November; however, on that date
17 the Defence did not respond. On 25 November, and in response to a
18 question by the Chamber as to whether any response would be forthcoming,
19 the Zupljanin Defence stated that a joint response would be filed that
20 same day. However, as of today, no response has been filed. And the
21 Chamber, therefore, decides the motion in the absence of a Defence
23 The six documents are each one page and concern denied
24 Adjudicated Facts 253 and 256, about which Witness 244 will be called to
1 On the 8th of November, the Defence indicated that they would not
2 stipulate to these two adjudicated facts, something which the Prosecution
3 submits was contrary to what the Defence had previously indicated to it.
4 Therefore, and on the same day, the Prosecution disclosed the documents
5 to the Defence, thus the threshold of due diligence is reached.
6 The Chamber holds that the documents are prima facie relevant and
7 probative. They concern the subject matter on which ST-244 is called to
8 testify and do not involve any new issues. Given that the documents are
9 brief and that the Defence has had the documents for over two weeks, the
10 Defence will have had sufficient time to prepare by the time ST-244 takes
11 the stand. For these reason, the Chamber holds that the Defence will not
12 be unduly prejudiced by the addition of these documents to the
13 Prosecution's exhibit list.
14 The motion is, therefore, granted.
15 JUDGE HARHOFF: Thank you.
16 And as the Presiding Judge just announced, there is also a couple
17 of instructions that the Chamber would wish to give to the parties.
18 The first instruction concerns the Prosecution's motion to add
19 Witness ST-261, and the Chamber is minded to allow the Prosecution to
20 call this witness. Written reasons will follow. But the important thing
21 is that Witness ST-261 shall have to be called before the winter recess.
22 This was made clear in our Ruling of 12th November this year in which we
23 specified that if, indeed, Witness 261 were to be called, he should be
24 called before the winter recess, that is to say, before the end of the
25 week that ends with 17th December, 2010.
1 The second matter which the Chamber would wish to give
2 instructions on is regarding the Prosecution's motion to add two
3 witnesses; namely, 263 and 264. This motion was filed by the Prosecution
4 on 3rd November, 2010, and the Chamber's Ruling is that we deny this
5 motion in its entirety. And, again, written reasons for this decision
6 will be issued shortly.
7 Lastly, we have the situation that will be prevailing after the
8 winter recess. At this moment, we have three witnesses that -- that are
9 to be called in the week that follows after the recess: It is ST-228,
10 and we have spoken about this witness at several occasions yesterday and
11 the day before; secondly, it is Expert Witness Ewan Brown; and, finally,
12 the Chamber is minded also to allow counsel for Stojan Zupljanin to
13 call -- or, rather, to re-call ST-181 for the limited purpose of
14 inquiring whether the accused, Stojan Zupljanin, was or was not present
15 during the visits to that particular camp, together with Witness ST-181.
16 Now, the -- the Chamber 's determination is that all of these
17 three witnesses have to be called and heard and their testimony completed
18 by the end of the week that begins Monday, 17th of January. Now, the
19 first of those weeks, that is to say, the week that begins with Monday,
20 the 10th, only has two full days and then a third day in which there will
21 be only two sessions, because you will recall that Thursday and Friday
22 are days off because of the Orthodox holidays. And then after that comes
23 another week. But by the end of that week, all of these three witnesses
24 must have been heard and their testimonies completed.
25 We, therefore, leave it to the Prosecution to determine in which
1 order it wishes to call these witnesses. But, as I said, the decision of
2 the Chamber is that they have -- must, all three, be completed by the end
3 of the week of the 17th of January, 2011.
4 JUDGE HALL: Thank you, Judge Harhoff.
5 Are there any other matters which we need address before we rise?
6 MR. HANNIS: Yes.
7 JUDGE HALL: Yes, Mr. Hannis.
8 MR. HANNIS: Yes, if I may, shortly.
9 And thank you for that information.
10 I did have one notification; I wanted to provide it to Defence
11 counsel and Your Honours. Witness ST-238, who was a witness you allowed
12 the Prosecution to add for dealing with the particular adjudicated fact
13 from Kljuc municipality, since the time that you permitted us to add him,
14 we have had other witness testimony about that event. And upon reviewing
15 it, the Prosecution has decided that we no longer need to call ST-238 and
16 we will not be calling him.
17 JUDGE HALL: So noted.
18 MR. HANNIS: Yes, thank you. And it would help for our planning
19 for the new year and those witnesses if we could have from the Defence an
20 estimate of how long they think they might be with ST-181. That will
21 help us figure out when we might want to bring him and schedule him.
22 Thank you.
23 JUDGE HALL: Thank you.
24 So we take the adjournment to 9.00 on Monday morning. I believe
25 we are back in this courtroom. And I trust that everyone has a safe
2 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.13 p.m.,
3 to be reconvened on Monday, the 29th day of
4 November, 2010, at 9.00 a.m.