1. 1 Thursday, 2nd July 1998

    2 --- Upon commencing at 9.10 a.m.

    3 (The accused entered court)

    4 (Open session)

    5 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Good morning, ladies and

    6 gentlemen. The technicians and the interpreters are

    7 ready. All right. We shall resume our business today,

    8 and today for the Prosecution, we have Mr. Meddegoda?

    9 MR. MEDDEGODA: Your Honours, Mr. Grant

    10 Niemann appears with me for the Prosecution.

    11 JUDGE RODRIGUES: And for the Defence,

    12 Mr. Mikulicic?

    13 MR. MIKULICIC: Good morning, Your Honours.

    14 Goran Mikulicic and my colleague, Joka for the

    15 Defence.

    16 JUDGE RODRIGUES: And the registrar?

    17 THE REGISTRAR: This is the case

    18 IT-95-14/1-T, the Prosecution versus Zlatko Aleksovski.

    19 JUDGE RODRIGUES: All right. We have a

    20 witness today for the Defence, Mrs. Blazenka Vujica.

    21 Ms. Vujica, you will now make the solemn declaration

    22 which you have the text before you.

    23 THE WITNESS: I solemnly declare that I shall

    24 speak the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the

    25 truth.

  2. 1 JUDGE RODRIGUES: You may be seated. Thank

    2 you. Now you will answer the questions which

    3 Mr. Mikulicic will put to you. Mr. Mikulicic, you have

    4 the floor.

    5 MR. MIKULICIC: Thank you, Your Honours.


    7 Examined by Mr. Mikulicic:

    8 Q. Good morning, Ms. Vujica. I'm Goran

    9 Mikulicic, and with my colleague, Joka, I'm

    10 representing my client, Mr. Aleksovski and I shall ask

    11 you a few questions relating to this case and I should

    12 like to ask you to be so kind to answer them.

    13 Ms. Vujica, will you please tell us when and where were

    14 you were born?

    15 A. On the 6th of May, 1965, in Jazine, the

    16 municipality of Busovaca.

    17 Q. Ms. Vujica, what is your ethnic origin?

    18 A. Croat.

    19 Q. Are you a practising believer?

    20 A. Yes, a Roman Catholic.

    21 Q. Where did you receive education?

    22 A. At the secondary school centre in Vitez. I

    23 am an economic technician.

    24 Q. So you attended that school in Vitez?

    25 A. The elementary school in Vitez also.

  3. 1 Q. And now you live where?

    2 A. Donje Polje, Busovaca.

    3 Q. Is it a part of the town of Busovaca or is it

    4 a certain distance?

    5 A. Three kilometres away from Busovaca.

    6 Q. Have you been living in Donje Polje always or

    7 have you moved there recently?

    8 A. Some five years ago.

    9 Q. Ms. Vujica, after you completed the secondary

    10 school and was trained as an economic technician, did

    11 you get a job somewhere?

    12 A. Yes, when I completed the secondary education

    13 I worked for a private store owner, shop owner who is

    14 my uncle.

    15 Q. And that is your first job?

    16 A. Yes.

    17 Q. So you worked for awhile for your uncle in

    18 his private shop. Did you find another employment or

    19 is it where you were when the conflict broke out?

    20 A. Sometime before the outbreak of the war, it

    21 was in -- I don't know, '92, 1992, in Bosnia, in

    22 Central Bosnia and Busovaca, nobody worked. That was a

    23 time when we all lost work. So that sometimes in mid

    24 December, '92, I was mobilised to the military police.

    25 Q. So when the armed conflict commenced in

  4. 1 Bosnia-Herzegovina as against the JNA, you lost your

    2 job like many other people in Bosnia; is that correct?

    3 A. It is.

    4 Q. And then you say that in December 1992, you

    5 were mobilised for the military police?

    6 A. Yes.

    7 Q. Which army mobilised you?

    8 A. HVO.

    9 Q. Mrs. Vujica, before you were mobilised for

    10 the military police of the HVO, did you have any

    11 experience with the military before that?

    12 A. No, no, mostly -- it was mostly men who were

    13 in the army.

    14 Q. So this was your first encounter with the

    15 military organisation and military structure?

    16 A. Yes.

    17 Q. And where were you assigned to as a military

    18 policeman? What was your job?

    19 A. As a secretary, military policewoman

    20 secretary. I did both these things because in the

    21 military police, in the military police, women were not

    22 often taken into custody because women did not

    23 perpetrate offences like men, so that I also performed

    24 secretarial duties.

    25 Q. Please correct my if I'm wrong. I don't know

  5. 1 if I understood you properly. You were a military

    2 policewoman first and to be responsible for women who,

    3 for some reason or the other, would come under the

    4 jurisdiction of the military police; is that correct?

    5 A. It is.

    6 Q. So you were mobilised as a policewoman for

    7 women?

    8 A. Yes.

    9 Q. But you said that there were not many women

    10 taken into custody, that is, detained, so that you did

    11 not have to do it; is that correct?

    12 A. It is. I hardly ever did that.

    13 Q. So that was when you were assigned to a

    14 secretarial post?

    15 A. Yes.

    16 Q. I see. And where were you supposed to

    17 perform secretarial duties?

    18 A. For the military police. Well, in the

    19 meantime, the district military prison was established,

    20 and I was assigned by the military police to the

    21 district military prison. And then after I came there,

    22 I began to work immediately there.

    23 Q. So if I understood you properly, you were

    24 assigned to the district military prison at Kaonik?

    25 A. Yes.

  6. 1 Q. Was that the first encounter with facilities

    2 at Kaonik or have you visited them before that?

    3 A. No. Oh, you mean before the war?

    4 Q. Yes, I mean before the war?

    5 A. No, no, nobody had access to the military

    6 facilities of the former JNA, women, in particular.

    7 Q. I see. So you were posted on behalf -- by

    8 the military police to the district military prison in

    9 Kaonik and you were expected to perform secretarial

    10 duties there?

    11 A. Yes.

    12 Q. And when was it, roughly, when you first went

    13 to work in Kaonik?

    14 A. Well, I don't remember exactly, but I think

    15 it was somewhere around 15th of December.

    16 Q. And what year?

    17 A. 1992.

    18 Q. In comparison with your place of residence,

    19 how far was your job, that is, the military district

    20 prison of Kaonik?

    21 A. Seven or eight kilometres.

    22 Q. Was there some organised urban transport so

    23 that you could go from your place of residence to your

    24 work place in district military prison in Kaonik?

    25 A. No, at that time, we didn't have enough --

  7. 1 even enough fuel to use cars, so whatever other means

    2 of transportation.

    3 Q. So how did you go to work?

    4 A. Sometimes on foot, sometimes I would get a

    5 ride, hitchhike. It depended.

    6 Q. And what were your working hours?

    7 A. In the beginning, I worked mostly from 8 to 4

    8 or from 7 to 3 -- no, I think it was from 8 to 4 as

    9 today.

    10 Q. You say "as today." Does that mean that you

    11 still work for the same facility?

    12 A. Yes, six years in a row.

    13 Q. And is it still a prison?

    14 A. Yes, a district prison in Busovaca.

    15 Q. Right, but let us go back to the events of

    16 1993. So you said your working hours were from 7 to 3

    17 or from 8 to 4, that interval. Does that mean that in

    18 the afternoon hours or at night, you did not ever stay

    19 at the district military prison in Kaonik?

    20 A. No, I had a small son so I could not stay and

    21 why should I stay? I mean, it wasn't my job.

    22 Q. And how old was your child?

    23 A. In '93, he was four years old.

    24 Q. Mrs. Blazenka, prior to that, you had no

    25 experience with the military, you had no experience

  8. 1 with work in a prison. So how did you learn what to

    2 do? How did you find out? Who showed you what your

    3 duties would be?

    4 A. Well, at first, a policeman who was with the

    5 military police there, until the warden for the

    6 military prison in Busovaca, he showed me something

    7 too, although he never did anything like that before.

    8 Q. When you came to the district prison, did you

    9 find there some military detainees? Do you remember

    10 who those people were? Do you know what was the status

    11 of those detainees and who had they been taken into

    12 custody by?

    13 A. Criminal charges had been filed against some

    14 of them, and they were detained on the basis of orders

    15 of the district military court in Travnik, and others

    16 were serving punishment because of some disciplinary

    17 transgressions.

    18 Q. So if I understood you properly, there were

    19 two categories of detainees, one were those who were

    20 there serving with the basis of the rulings of the

    21 district military court in Travnik, and the second

    22 category were those who had committed some disciplinary

    23 offence and, therefore, were serving punishment upon

    24 the orders of their commanders, respective commanders.

    25 You mentioned the district military court in Travnik,

  9. 1 Mrs. Vujica. Could you tell us the relationship

    2 between the district military court in Travnik and the

    3 district military prison?

    4 A. The district military court supervised -- it

    5 was the only one authorised to supervise the work of

    6 the district military prison in Busovaca, in relation

    7 to persons taken into custody.

    8 Q. Do you remember if the president of the

    9 district military court ever came to visit the prison?

    10 A. Yes, he came in December, shortly after I

    11 came to the district military prison. He also came to

    12 pay a visit.

    13 Q. Mrs. Vujica, do you remember, where were the

    14 guards recruited from, I mean, the guards who were on

    15 duty at the district military prison?

    16 A. From the military police, from Busovaca only.

    17 Q. So those guards were members of the military

    18 police just like you?

    19 A. Yes.

    20 Q. Do you remember the beginning of the conflict

    21 in the territory of the municipality of Busovaca

    22 sometime in January '93?

    23 A. I do.

    24 Q. Could you tell us when that was, if you

    25 remember?

  10. 1 A. The 25th, the 25th of January, 1993.

    2 Q. And what happened then?

    3 A. Well, there was fire, shells were falling.

    4 Q. Could you go to work that day?

    5 A. No, not for the next five or six or maybe

    6 even ten days, because it was not safe. I did not dare

    7 because of my child.

    8 Q. And when the situation calmed down after some

    9 ten days or so, you could go back to work; is that

    10 correct?

    11 A. It is.

    12 Q. And when you came -- when you returned to

    13 work after that time, so it must have been the

    14 beginning of February, if I'm correct; is that so?

    15 A. Yes.

    16 Q. Whom did you find at the district military

    17 prison?

    18 A. The district military prison, in addition to

    19 detainees, subsequent to -- pursuant to their orders of

    20 the military district court and those on disciplinary

    21 punishment, there were some civilians who had been

    22 brought there presumably for their safety, because I

    23 told you there was fire rather fierce, and it was not

    24 safe, so that they were there, and I -- that was why I

    25 stayed.

  11. 1 Q. Did you meet, at that time, the warden of the

    2 military district prison?

    3 A. Yes, I did.

    4 Q. What is his name?

    5 A. Zlatko Aleksovski.

    6 Q. Could you please indicate, if he is in this

    7 courtroom, if you see him?

    8 A. Yes, it is that gentleman over there.

    9 (Indicating).

    10 Q. For the record, the witness pointed in the

    11 direction of Mr. -- of the accused and identified him

    12 as Mr. Zlatko Aleksovski.

    13 So Mrs. Vujica, so it was then when you came

    14 to work some ten days after the conflict, you met

    15 Mr. Aleksovski for the first time?

    16 A. Yes.

    17 Q. Did he introduce himself? Did he say who he

    18 was, what he was?

    19 A. Yes, he said, I'm Zlatko Aleksovski, the

    20 warden of the district military prison in Busovaca.

    21 Q. Was he a member of your unit, the unit that

    22 you were also a member of, the military police?

    23 A. No, no, he was not.

    24 Q. And from what he said, what he introduced

    25 himself, was he a member of some other military unit?

  12. 1 A. No. He was -- I think that he had been

    2 appointed by the ministry of justice. As a matter of

    3 fact, it was called then the department -- I can't

    4 remember, but it was the ministry of justice. That's

    5 what it's called now but it had different names.

    6 Q. Right. But although you cannot remember the

    7 exact title of that institution, was it a civilian or

    8 military institution?

    9 A. Civilian institution.

    10 Q. At the time when you saw him and in your

    11 subsequent contacts, and I presume there were on a

    12 daily basis, did he wear a military uniform or civilian

    13 clothes or what did he wear?

    14 A. Well, it varied. I remember that I lent him

    15 -- that is, I gave him a uniform, because I was issued

    16 several uniforms when I came. Military policemen who

    17 were there at the time had come earlier, and they gave

    18 me their uniforms, as I had none, and I had several

    19 separate uniforms, so I gave them to him. So at times,

    20 and in Bosnia, it was quite in to -- quite fashionable

    21 to wear a combination of military and civilian clothes,

    22 that is to wear civilian trousers and a camouflage

    23 shirt or the other way around. And I remember well

    24 that Mr. Aleksovski had a sweater which on the sleeve

    25 had the German flag. Green, a green sweater.

  13. 1 Q. And was that sweater?

    2 A. It must have been relief human assistance

    3 from Germany so it was donated by humanitarian aid in

    4 Germany?

    5 A. Yes.

    6 Q. Did you ever notice whether such sweaters

    7 were the insignia of the German national flag? Did

    8 other people wear such sweaters in the territory of

    9 Busovaca at the time?

    10 A. Oh, yes. And even at that time, some

    11 policemen asked me, because their sweaters were rather

    12 long, some of them asked me to wear it as a dress.

    13 Q. So you were also issued such a sweater?

    14 A. No, no, but a colleague, and it was so long

    15 that it looked more like a dress than as a sweater.

    16 Q. Mrs. Vujica, awhile ago you said that people

    17 used to combine civilian and military clothes. Does

    18 this same custom fashion prevail in that territory?

    19 A. Yes, it is a kind of working clothes, because

    20 the quality is rather good in comparison with what now,

    21 so it is used for work in the fields and for any kind

    22 of hard work.

    23 Q. So even today, it's not a rare occurrence

    24 that you see an individual sporting some part of

    25 military clothes?

  14. 1 A. No, it is not.

    2 Q. Mrs. Vujica, did this uniform that

    3 Mr. Aleksovski wore, did it have any patches to

    4 indicate rank or membership in a unit?

    5 A. No.

    6 Q. Tell us, you mentioned that when you came to

    7 Kaonik, you worked for the district military prison in

    8 the building. Could you describe that building? What

    9 was in that building? What was inside that building?

    10 Were they cells or what?

    11 A. What do you mean?

    12 Q. I mean the district military prison?

    13 A. District military prison, there were two

    14 offices, one office where the shift leader and the

    15 supervisor were, and the second office where -- which

    16 was shared by the warden and myself. Those were two

    17 office premises.

    18 Q. Tell us, what were your duties? What did you

    19 do?

    20 A. When the -- after the warden of the prison

    21 district court, I still used the word manager, but I

    22 should say warden, and my duty was to keep registry

    23 books, that is, to take all the -- take down all the

    24 particulars and all the other relevant data, relevant

    25 information.

  15. 1 Q. I assume, and you will correct me if I'm

    2 wrong, that these registries that you kept concerned

    3 the detainees at the district military prison; is that

    4 correct?

    5 A. Yes.

    6 Q. And those who were disciplined, are they HVO

    7 soldiers? Did you keep any records about the persons,

    8 the civilians who you said were there when you arrived

    9 at Kaonik? Did you keep any records about them?

    10 A. Yes, I had a computer which I received from

    11 the military police, so I entered all the data, the

    12 relevant data into the computer, also the data

    13 concerning the civilians. And I received the list from

    14 the supervisor.

    15 Q. Do you remember his name?

    16 A. Yes.

    17 Q. What was his name?

    18 A. Ante Jerkovic.

    19 Q. So Ante Jerkovic gave you a list of Muslim

    20 civilians who were brought to Kaonik, and you entered

    21 the list into the computer?

    22 A. Yes.

    23 Q. I see. Tell us, Mrs. Vujica, where were

    24 those people accommodated, I mean, the Muslim

    25 civilians?

  16. 1 A. In the district military court, there were

    2 only 16 cells, so it was difficult to accommodate all

    3 the civilians there. To my knowledge, some people were

    4 also accommodated up there in the hangar, but I haven't

    5 seen them, because I had no right of access and

    6 communication with people who are detained, and the

    7 same applies today, with the exception of women.

    8 Q. I see. You mentioned a hangar where you said

    9 you heard that some people were accommodated. Tell us

    10 where the hangar is located in relation to the building

    11 in which you worked?

    12 A. The same as the prison, but there was some

    13 distance, I don't know, of about 100 metres. I can't

    14 tell you exactly, but in the same direction.

    15 Q. I see. Mrs. Vujica, I will now show you a

    16 photograph, and I will ask you to point in that

    17 photograph to us and to the Chamber to which building

    18 and facilities are you referring to. Can you please

    19 show us T1, evidence T1, an aerial photograph of

    20 Kaonik?

    21 JUDGE RODRIGUES: I think we should like to

    22 have it on the ELMO, please. Could something be done

    23 to see it on the ELMO, please? We have it now on the

    24 video, this exhibit. Thank you, Mr. Mikulicic, you can

    25 continue.

  17. 1 MR. MIKULICIC: Thank you.

    2 Q. Mrs. Vujica, we now have the picture on the

    3 monitor. It is a photograph which is marked down there

    4 as Kaonik Camp. Can you recognise the facilities in

    5 this photograph and tell us which facilities do you

    6 recognise? In the upper part of the photograph, there

    7 is a facility marked with the letter "A". What is

    8 that?

    9 A. Yes, this is the military police building.

    10 Q. Is this the building in which military

    11 policemen were accommodated?

    12 A. Yes.

    13 Q. Tell us whether there is the steel door next

    14 to it which is actually the gate into the entire

    15 complex?

    16 A. Yes, and they were guarded by the army or by

    17 military police.

    18 Q. So military police controlled all

    19 communication as far as this complex is concerned?

    20 A. Yes.

    21 Q. Is this the only gate to Kaonik?

    22 A. Yes.

    23 Q. Why?

    24 A. I don't know. I don't think that it would be

    25 normal to have more entrances.

  18. 1 Q. Was this complex surrounded in any way?

    2 A. Yes, by barbed wire, because it was a former

    3 JNA barrack.

    4 Q. You said that Kaonik was a former JNA barrack

    5 that was surrounded by barbed wire and that it had just

    6 one entrance which is marked by the letter "A"; is that

    7 correct?

    8 A. Yes.

    9 Q. If you go further by the road, and the

    10 picture has been lost for awhile, but now it's back?

    11 A. I don't have the picture on my video.

    12 Q. So if we continue along the road from the

    13 facility marked with the letter "A," tell us what is

    14 the next facility marked with the letter "B"?

    15 A. It's the district military prison.

    16 Q. Is that the building in which you worked?

    17 A. Yes.

    18 Q. Can you show us what is the building in which

    19 you found Muslim civilians?

    20 A. Building "B."

    21 Q. You said it's the district military prison,

    22 the building with cells?

    23 A. Yes, the cells in which civilians were

    24 located, and I heard that up there there were some more

    25 civilians.

  19. 1 Q. Can you show us on this photograph to which

    2 building are you referring when you said "up there"?

    3 A. The building up here. (Indicating).

    4 Q. I see. Tell us, Mrs. Vujica, what are the

    5 other facilities within the Kaonik complex? Do you

    6 know what was their purpose?

    7 A. No. It was dangerous because they told me

    8 there were a lot of mines that were planted in the area

    9 which were not removed, and I didn't go up there.

    10 Q. I see. If I understood you correctly, your

    11 job -- you worked in the building "B" in the district

    12 military prison and practically, you were not allowed

    13 to venture around the complex?

    14 A. Yes, for security reasons too, because the

    15 district military prison and the barracks were the

    16 target of attacks, because it was near the frontline,

    17 and it was frequently shelled.

    18 Q. Thank you. We no longer need the photograph,

    19 and it can be removed from the monitor.

    20 Tell us, Mrs. Vujica, when you arrived at

    21 Kaonik, you met Mr. Aleksovski, he introduced himself

    22 as the warden of the district military prison, and he

    23 said that he taught you about your day-to-day duties

    24 and showed you how to keep the records. Were the other

    25 guards who were at Kaonik, members of the military

  20. 1 police, did they have any previous experience for this

    2 kind of service in prison facilities?

    3 A. No, only when Ante Jerkovic arrived who

    4 previously worked in a penitentiary, he taught the

    5 other guards what to do, the other military policemen,

    6 so they received some training from him about the work

    7 in the district prisons or the district military

    8 prison.

    9 Q. So only with the arrival of Zlatko

    10 Aleksovski, this is when the others received some

    11 training. Did you know what kind of experience he had

    12 as far as prison work was concerned?

    13 A. Yes, I heard that he worked in the

    14 penitentiary in Zenica, and that he was an educator

    15 there.

    16 Q. Can you tell us, Mrs. Vujica, can you

    17 describe, actually, what kind of duties Aleksovski had

    18 in the district military prison? Please tell us first,

    19 if you know, of course, who was the person or

    20 institution to which Mr. Aleksovski reported as far as

    21 the functioning of the district military prison was

    22 concerned?

    23 A. As far as the work of the district military

    24 prison was concerned, he reported to the president of

    25 the district military court and the ministry of

  21. 1 justice. And the same applies for today. These are

    2 the people to whom I report.

    3 Q. So you said that these were the people to

    4 whom he reported, and this is how he communicated with

    5 the district military court and its president. Tell

    6 us, because of the security for some resources such as

    7 food, hygienic material, fuel, spare parts and similar,

    8 who was supplying the military prison with that? Which

    9 institution?

    10 A. The army. We received almost everything from

    11 the army, food, clothing, footwear, hygiene.

    12 Everything that we used for that purpose, because the

    13 army was the only supplier at that time for everything.

    14 Q. So because of the state of war, the other

    15 civilian services did not function?

    16 A. No.

    17 Q. Only the army?

    18 A. Yes, only the army.

    19 Q. So you told us before that Zlatko Aleksovski

    20 was not a member of the military police, he was not a

    21 member of any other military unit, and that on the

    22 other hand, the guards at Kaonik were members of the

    23 military police?

    24 A. Yes.

    25 Q. And you, too?

  22. 1 A. Yes.

    2 Q. I suppose that you had your own commander in

    3 the military police?

    4 A. Yes.

    5 Q. Was that commander Zlatko Aleksovski?

    6 A. No.

    7 Q. I mean, in the military sense?

    8 A. No.

    9 Q. So Zlatko Aleksovski as a warden of the

    10 district military prison, what could he do about the

    11 guards? I mean, what were his powers vis-à-vis the

    12 guards? Could he, for instance, discipline them?

    13 A. No. Only the commander could do that, the

    14 commander of the military police.

    15 Q. But, yet, he was in day-to-day communication

    16 with these people?

    17 A. Yes.

    18 Q. What did he talk with them? What did they

    19 talk about?

    20 A. You mean the commander of the military

    21 police?

    22 Q. No. I will repeat my question. So you said

    23 that Zlatko Aleksovski was the warden of the district

    24 military prison and that the guards came from the

    25 military police. He was not the military commander,

  23. 1 but he had to train them for their work. It had to be

    2 explained what were their duties?

    3 A. Yes.

    4 Q. Was that his duty?

    5 A. Yes, that was what he did. He trained the

    6 military policemen inside the military prison so that

    7 they would know how to treat the detainees, because it

    8 was rather difficult to teach them, because it was

    9 rather difficult to do that. Because it is not -- it

    10 is not the same as if stopping a car on the street, for

    11 instance. It is a different kind of duty.

    12 Q. So if I understood you correctly, he was

    13 training the military policemen about their day-to-day

    14 jobs as guards of the military prison; is that correct?

    15 A. Yes.

    16 Q. What would happen if some of those military

    17 policemen would perform their duties erroneously? What

    18 would he do?

    19 A. He wouldn't do anything, but the commander of

    20 the military police would discipline those people.

    21 Q. I suppose that the commander would have to be

    22 informed about that? Who would inform him about that?

    23 A. The warden would report about these erroneous

    24 duties, and the commander would then discipline them.

    25 Q. I see. Tell us, Mrs. Vujica, did the warden

  24. 1 also report about certain events? Did he report to the

    2 president of the military court if some incidents

    3 occurred or something similar?

    4 A. Yes.

    5 Q. I will now show you a document and I kindly

    6 ask you to comment on it and tell us whether you

    7 recognise what you see. I kindly ask now the usher?

    8 THE REGISTRAR: This is Exhibit D25.


    10 Q. Tell us, first of all --

    11 JUDGE RODRIGUES: We still don't have the

    12 document. Could we have one? Thank you. Yes, you may

    13 continue, Mr. Mikulicic.

    14 MR. MIKULICIC: Thank you, Your Honours.

    15 Q. Tell us, Mrs. Vujica, was it your duty to

    16 write documents, official letters that were circulated

    17 within the prison?

    18 A. Yes.

    19 Q. You said that you had a computer?

    20 A. Yes.

    21 Q. Could you use it regularly?

    22 A. Yes, unless there were electricity cuts, and

    23 then I used an ordinary typewriter.

    24 Q. So we see that this document was written in

    25 an ordinary typewriter? Did you write it?

  25. 1 A. Yes.

    2 Q. Can you tell us, although it is not visible

    3 much, to whom it was addressed?

    4 A. Yes, to the president of the district court

    5 in Travnik.

    6 Q. And in the bottom, we see that the copy was

    7 sent to the president of the district military court?

    8 A. Yes.

    9 Q. Can you tell us, what was it all about?

    10 A. A member of the military police entered the

    11 barracks when he wanted to beat a person from Krajina,

    12 and --

    13 Q. Krajisnik, is that a name or a prisoner?

    14 A. Krajisnik was a civilian.

    15 Q. So Zlatko Aleksovski reported the president

    16 of the district military court about this?

    17 A. Yes.

    18 Q. And tell us the soldier about whom

    19 Mr. Aleksovski writes, Vlado Kristo, a soldier. Was he

    20 a guard at the prison?

    21 A. No, he was, I think, a member of the military

    22 police.

    23 Q. Did you, in addition to documents that we

    24 just showed you, did you have any opportunity to write

    25 similar documents or is this a single such document?

  26. 1 A. Yes.

    2 Q. So is that the only such document or did you

    3 write similar documents on other occasions?

    4 A. Like this one?

    5 Q. Yes, like this one, reporting about the

    6 incidents to the district -- to the president of the

    7 district court or --

    8 A. Yes, I wrote such documents at his

    9 instructions.

    10 MR. MIKULICIC: I want this exhibit entered

    11 into the evidence under the number D29.

    12 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Mr. Meddegoda, do you have

    13 any objections?

    14 MR. MEDDEGODA: I have no objections, Your

    15 Honour.

    16 MR. MIKULICIC: I would now ask the usher to

    17 approach the bench so that we can show some other

    18 documents to the witness.

    19 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit for the Defence, D26.

    20 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Just a moment, please. I

    21 believe there is an error here because Mr. Mikulicic

    22 has asked for document 29, but it is 25?

    23 THE REGISTRAR: This is document D25.

    24 JUDGE RODRIGUES: So we have to make the

    25 necessary correction in the transcript.

  27. 1 MR. MIKULICIC: Can I continue, Your

    2 Honours?

    3 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Yes, you can continue,

    4 Mr. Mikulicic. Excuse me.

    5 MR. MIKULICIC: Thank you, and thank you for

    6 commenting on the wrong number for the registry.

    7 Q. Mrs. Vujica, before you, you have a document

    8 which has been addressed to the president of the

    9 district military court in Travnik; is that correct?

    10 A. Yes.

    11 Q. The document says that the warden of the

    12 district military prison is not able to ensure regular

    13 transportation to the court. Can you tell us, what was

    14 it all about?

    15 A. Because of the difficult conditions when the

    16 district military prison was set up, we did not have a

    17 vehicle of our own, so we were forced to use, when we

    18 were supposed to transfer detainees or civilians to the

    19 doctor, we did not have -- we could not do that, and we

    20 had to borrow a car and we had a car, a Fiat, which did

    21 not work so ...

    22 Q. Mrs. Vujica, do you then recognise the

    23 signature of this document?

    24 A. Yes.

    25 Q. Is that Mr. Aleksovski's signature?

  28. 1 A. Yes.

    2 MR. MIKULICIC: The Defence proposes that

    3 this document is entered as evidence D26.

    4 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Mr. Meddegoda?

    5 MR. MEDDEGODA: No objection.


    7 Q. So you told us that the conditions in which

    8 the district military prison functioned were not very

    9 good. You had a shortage of equipment and other

    10 resources; is that correct?

    11 A. Yes.

    12 Q. Tell us about the food supplies. Was the

    13 food prepared in the prison?

    14 A. The food was prepared in the military police

    15 building. There was a cook who prepared the food

    16 there, so it was the same food for the guards, for the

    17 warden, for the civilian detainees. Everybody ate the

    18 same food because there were no conditions to prepare

    19 different meals.

    20 Q. Tell us about the other resources such as

    21 soap, blankets, food, clothes, because it was winter.

    22 Did you have enough of those?

    23 A. No, no, because civilians, when they were

    24 visited by the Red Cross, they would bring them some

    25 underwear and some clothes.

  29. 1 Q. You mentioned the Red Cross. Did they visit

    2 the prison frequently?

    3 A. Occasionally.

    4 Q. Who contacted them? Who spoke to them?

    5 A. Only the warden of the district prison,

    6 Mr. Aleksovski.

    7 Q. Tell us, did the representatives of the Red

    8 Cross bring some materials that they left to you?

    9 A. Yes, they would leave a document which Mr.

    10 Aleksovski would receive, so we would have the origins,

    11 the document about the origins.

    12 Q. I will show you now some documents, so please

    13 tell us what these documents are all about. I now

    14 kindly ask the usher to approach so that we can show

    15 these documents to the witness.

    16 THE REGISTRAR: Defence document D27.


    18 Q. Mrs. Vujica, we have before us a document of

    19 the Red Cross which says that a delivery was made to

    20 the Kaonik prison of soaps and blankets; is that

    21 correct?

    22 A. Yes.

    23 Q. Do you recognise the signature on the bottom

    24 of the document?

    25 A. Yes, Mrs. Beatrice has given these documents

  30. 1 and supplies to Mr. Aleksovski, and Mr. Aleksovski

    2 signed the receipt.

    3 Q. So Mr. Aleksovski signed this?

    4 A. Yes.

    5 Q. Do you know what happened with this

    6 materials, were they distributed to the prison or what?

    7 A. What do you mean?

    8 Q. Were the soap given to the prisoners and the

    9 blankets or did you put them somewhere in store?

    10 A. Yes, they were given to the prisoners and the

    11 civilians, and when they were released, they took them

    12 with them.

    13 Q. Mrs. Vujica, I will now show you two more

    14 documents of the Red Cross, and I ask -- also kindly

    15 ask you to comment on them. Perhaps we can use both

    16 documents as one exhibit in order not to lose time.

    17 MR. MIKULICIC: The Defence proposes that

    18 these documents, because they are very similar in

    19 contents, are registered as Defence material 27A, B and

    20 C.

    21 Q. Mrs. Vujica, these are also Red Cross

    22 documents; is that correct?

    23 A. Yes.

    24 Q. So these documents say that, as far as the

    25 Kaonik prison is concerned, a supply was made of

  31. 1 underwear, training track suits, jackets, boots. Is

    2 that what was supplied by the Red Cross to Kaonik?

    3 A. Yes.

    4 Q. Was it also distributed to detainees and the

    5 civilians who were detained there, the Muslim

    6 civilians?

    7 A. Yes, and they mostly took it with them, with

    8 the exception of blankets.

    9 Q. You mean when they were released?

    10 A. Yes, when they were released.

    11 Q. I see.

    12 MR. MIKULICIC: I suggest that these

    13 documents are entered as Exhibits 27B and C, and the

    14 first document as 27A.

    15 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Mr. Meddegoda?

    16 THE REGISTRAR: Defence document 27A, B, C.

    17 The first document is 27A.


    19 Q. Mrs. Vujica, you told us that during your

    20 statement that at the beginning of the armed conflict

    21 in the Busovaca area, that, actually, ten days after

    22 the conflict, you managed to get to Kaonik?

    23 A. Yes.

    24 Q. And you told us that you learned that in the

    25 meantime, Muslim civilians were brought to the Kaonik

  32. 1 facility; is that correct?

    2 A. Yes.

    3 Q. Do you, perhaps, know what happened later to

    4 the Muslim persons, Muslim civilians, who were brought

    5 there? Were they later released and do you know when?

    6 A. Yes, at the beginning of February, on the 8th

    7 of February, 1993.

    8 Q. So on the 8th of February, 1993, these people

    9 were released from the Kaonik prison; is that correct?

    10 A. Yes.

    11 Q. Was at the time when they were released,

    12 somebody present from the international organisations?

    13 A. Yes, John Luc from the Red Cross was present,

    14 and when they were released, they had the right to

    15 choose where they wanted to go, whether to Zenica, to

    16 Merdan, to Kacuni, or to Busovaca, so it was their

    17 choice where they wanted to go. I was surprised, for

    18 instance, that there was a bus of them -- a bus load

    19 which took them to Busovaca, and I know two brothers

    20 who returned because they were friends of my brother.

    21 And their names are Miralem and Salem Hodzic.

    22 Q. Those persons, those civilians, when they

    23 were released in the presence of the international Red

    24 Cross could state their preference as to their point of

    25 destination, and you know that a number of them, after

  33. 1 being released from Kaonik, stated that they wanted to

    2 come back to Busovaca; is that correct?

    3 A. Yes.

    4 Q. Did some civilian prisoners, Muslims, stay

    5 behind in Kaonik after that? Do you know that?

    6 A. No.

    7 Q. Let us proceed now. The situation begins to

    8 calm down, armed conflicts also begin to calm down,

    9 roads become more possible and the life goes back to

    10 normal; is that correct?

    11 A. Yes.

    12 Q. However, the second conflict breaks out.

    13 When is that?

    14 A. In the middle of April 1993.

    15 Q. Tell me, were you faced with the same

    16 situation as during the first armed conflict, that is,

    17 could you go to work or not?

    18 A. No, I could not.

    19 Q. So how long did it take before you could

    20 really go to work?

    21 A. I wouldn't know exactly, perhaps five or six

    22 days.

    23 Q. When you came back to work, did you find

    24 Muslim civilians in Kaonik again?

    25 A. Yes.

  34. 1 Q. Did you know who had brought those persons to

    2 Kaonik? Did you hear anything about that?

    3 A. Mostly the military police, the army.

    4 Q. Did you ever think why those people had been

    5 brought to Kaonik? Did you ever discuss it and do you

    6 have your own news about that?

    7 A. Well, as I stayed back at home to be with my

    8 child, so it is, I guess, more than likely that they

    9 also wanted to find some shelter, and the prison was

    10 the only possibility where they could find shelter and

    11 stay alive because, you know, in view of the building

    12 materials, the walls there were made of very good

    13 material, very solid material, and they could withstand

    14 the shelling.

    15 Q. And was there the shelling of Kaonik?

    16 A. Yes.

    17 Q. Do you remember if anyone was wounded during

    18 the shelling?

    19 A. No.

    20 Q. Do you, perhaps, remember if any of the

    21 prisoners or those civilians was ever wounded at

    22 Kaonik?

    23 A. No.

    24 Q. Do you remember if any of the guards was ever

    25 wounded, the security?

  35. 1 A. Yes, in the second conflict, the security

    2 service, that is, the military policemen were posted to

    3 the defence line, and they were guarding the -- and the

    4 prison was guarded by the Domobrans then, and three or

    5 four were wounded. I don't know exactly.

    6 Q. But no prisoner?

    7 A. No.

    8 Q. In that second conflict, did those Muslim

    9 civilians accommodated in that hangar, as during the

    10 first conflict, or somewhere else? Do you know that?

    11 A. I don't know about the second hangar. I know

    12 they were in the district military prison. About up

    13 there, I did not go up there.

    14 Q. Mrs. Vujica, do you know anything if those

    15 persons who were accommodated in Kaonik, and I mean

    16 Muslim civilians, did they have any labour obligations

    17 that they had to comply with?

    18 A. Labour obligations?

    19 Q. Well, were those persons taken out of the

    20 prison Kaonik to perform certain duties?

    21 A. No, those civilians, those prisoners didn't

    22 do anything outside, except, perhaps, to go and fetch

    23 food, bring food, and one had to do it because the

    24 canteen was below that building.

    25 Q. We're talking about these detainees, but

  36. 1 there's something else I should like to know, Mrs.

    2 Vujica. What I should like to know is whether you know

    3 if those Muslims, if those civilians, that you find

    4 there came there after the first or second conflict,

    5 whether they were taking out of Kaonik to do some

    6 digging or some other works?

    7 A. Yes, some commanders from the frontline

    8 ordered them to go and dig the trenches.

    9 Q. So you saw that they were being taken out of

    10 Kaonik. Who came to fetch them?

    11 A. Largely, the military, but I don't know very

    12 many of those soldiers, but I think it was the military

    13 police, by and large.

    14 Q. Tell us, if the population were not at Kaonik

    15 but who had stayed behind at home, did they also have

    16 to perform those duties, that is, were they also under

    17 labour obligations?

    18 A. Yes, even my father had to go to dig

    19 trenches.

    20 Q. Your father too?

    21 A. Yes.

    22 Q. How old was your father?

    23 A. He was 52.

    24 Q. And he was not a member of the HVO?

    25 A. Not at the time.

  37. 1 Q. And yet he was under obligation to go and

    2 dig?

    3 A. Yes, it was a kind of a labour obligation.

    4 Q. Do you remember as to how was he notified

    5 that he had to go and dig? Would somebody come to

    6 fetch them or what?

    7 A. Well, usually the military police came or

    8 they would get a request or some such document that

    9 they would have to go.

    10 Q. But there were occasions when the military

    11 police would come after him, and then he would go to

    12 the place where he had to work; is that correct?

    13 A. It is.

    14 Q. Do you know if it happened once or several

    15 times?

    16 A. Several times. Once it was at 2.00. I

    17 remember mother telling me that they woke him up at

    18 2.00 and he had to go.

    19 Q. By 2.00 a.m.?

    20 A. Yes, probably because of the safety.

    21 Q. And do you know where did he go to dig

    22 trenches? Do you know in what part of the municipality

    23 of Busovaca?

    24 A. The first time he was on Strane and then he

    25 was sent elsewhere, and later on, I don't know.

  38. 1 Q. Do you know if other men in your village were

    2 also under labour obligation?

    3 A. Yes, there were some young men who were not

    4 members of the army and they were also taken to dig. I

    5 remember my neighbour, my former neighbour, Andjelko

    6 Vujica, and his brother.

    7 Q. They also went to dig?

    8 A. Yes, together with my father.

    9 Q. Mrs. Vujica, you mentioned that in April,

    10 when the conflicts were at their most, the guards from

    11 the prison were taken to the frontline, and that under

    12 the circumstances, there were guards who were brought

    13 in to guard the prison?

    14 A. Yes.

    15 Q. Mrs. Vujica, could you tell us something

    16 about the security situation in the area of Busovaca?

    17 You already said something about it. You said that

    18 some shells hit the Kaonik facility itself. You said

    19 that could not come to work regularly at the time when

    20 conflicts would gain momentum because it was impossible

    21 to pass through. But do you know if shells fell on the

    22 town of Busovaca and surrounding villages?

    23 A. Yes.

    24 Q. Mrs. Vujica, what do you think, was there a

    25 place in the municipality of Busovaca which would be

  39. 1 safe from shells?

    2 A. No, at that time, there was no safe place. I

    3 was unsafe at home.

    4 Q. But you said you stayed at home because of

    5 your child?

    6 A. Yes.

    7 Q. And you also said that the structures at

    8 Kaonik were rather solid, and that although Kaonik was

    9 shelled, none of the prisoners were wounded?

    10 A. That is correct.

    11 Q. Do you know if any of those civilians,

    12 Muslims or prisoners, detainees at the district prison,

    13 did anyone fall ill seriously or contract an infectious

    14 disease or some infection or something? Do you know

    15 anything about it?

    16 A. No. To this day, no detainee, that is, no

    17 civilian has ever fallen ill or suffered from any

    18 contagious disease nor has there been any infection.

    19 Q. Do you know if any representatives of the

    20 medical centres came to those premises?

    21 A. Yes, when we had some transportation, then we

    22 would take them up there, and when not, then they would

    23 come to us.

    24 Q. What were the hygiene conditions, that is, I

    25 mean, lavatories, toilets, and so on and so forth?

  40. 1 A. Bad, very bad. There were only two WCs, one

    2 for the personnel, and the other for persons who were

    3 there in prison. So they sometimes used our WC.

    4 Q. Would you know if persons who were there, if

    5 they could use the WC depending on the circumstances or

    6 were they prohibited from doing that?

    7 A. No, they were not prohibited.

    8 Q. Mrs. Vujica, tell us, what was the situation

    9 with fumigation, with rodent extermination? Did you

    10 have any means to do it?

    11 A. What we got from the army, from the Red

    12 Cross, we used it, but it was very bad. We were in a

    13 very poor situation, and we did not have enough of that

    14 but it was all right.

    15 Q. Yes, that was what I was going to ask you,

    16 Mrs. Vujica. Did the situation in Kaonik differ from

    17 the situation throughout the municipality of Busovaca

    18 or did you share the same lot?

    19 A. We all shared the same lot. We all were in

    20 the same situation.

    21 Q. Would you know, and that is my next question,

    22 when doctors from the medical centre in Busovaca, when

    23 doctors would prescribe house care or requested that

    24 they be spared for work, were these recommendations or

    25 advice of the doctors heeded to? Do you know anything

  41. 1 about that?

    2 A. I do not.

    3 Q. Mrs. Vujica, in the beginning of your

    4 testimony, you said that you still worked at the same

    5 facility. If you now compare it, the conditions today

    6 with the conditions of 1993, what would you say? Has

    7 something been added? Has some new structures been

    8 built? Tell us something about that.

    9 A. The district prison in Busovaca is not

    10 different much from the district prison at the time of

    11 war. There are some slight changes. Two WCs had been

    12 built, or rather, a WC, with a lavatory, with a

    13 bathroom, that is now supporting convicts.

    14 Q. So to this day, on the premises of that same

    15 district military prison which at present is called

    16 district prison, convicts use the WC in the passage

    17 way, the same way as they did during the war; is that

    18 correct?

    19 A. It is.

    20 Q. Do you know if an international inspection

    21 came to inspect the conditions there?

    22 A. Yes, in the beginning of 1993, we had the

    23 visit of some international commission which inspected

    24 the prison, which talked to detainees and convicts and

    25 talked to representatives of the district prison and

  42. 1 looked into documentation and they noted their

    2 satisfaction with the conditions of work and life

    3 there.

    4 Q. Mrs. Vujica, will you please repeat when was

    5 this inspection? Was it the beginning of 1993 as the

    6 transcript says?

    7 A. In 1998.

    8 Q. So it was 1998. And they had no particular

    9 objections to the conditions in the prison; is that

    10 correct?

    11 A. It is.

    12 Q. And is it true that the accommodations in the

    13 prison today are not much different from the conditions

    14 in the same prison in 1993?

    15 A. No, there are slight changes. For instance,

    16 we have the light bulbs in the cells now, and formerly,

    17 they were affixed to the bars.

    18 MR. MIKULICIC: We have no further questions,

    19 Your Honours, thank you.

    20 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Right. I think it will be

    21 a very good time to make a break and we shall go into

    22 recess for 20 minutes.

    23 --- Recess taken at 10.20 a.m.

    24 --- On resuming at 10.47 a.m.

    25 (The accused entered court)

  43. 1 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Mrs. Blazenka Vujica,

    2 Mr. Mikulicic, we must always remember, as you know,

    3 that between you, there is always an interpreter, and

    4 this morning things were slightly complicated. So I

    5 should like to ask Mrs. Blazenka Vujica to speak

    6 slower, to make some break so that the interpreters

    7 could follow because, unfortunately, we do not speak

    8 your language. Will you please take note of this?

    9 Thank you very much.

    10 Mr. Mikulicic, you have the floor, and you

    11 may continue -- oh, no, no, you have already

    12 concluded. Mr. Meddegoda, I believe it is now your

    13 turn to continue.

    14 Mr. Meddegoda?

    15 MR. MEDDEGODA: Yes, Your Honour, I have a

    16 few questions for this witness, Your Honours.

    17 Cross-examined by Mr. Meddegoda:

    18 Q. Good morning, Mrs. Vujica.

    19 A. Good morning.

    20 Q. I'm going to ask you questions on behalf of

    21 the Prosecution, and I hope you will be able to assist

    22 me to the best of your ability and to the best of your

    23 recollection. Now, your evidence this morning was that

    24 you joined the military police of the HVO in mid

    25 December of 1992?

  44. 1 A. I was mobilised.

    2 Q. Correct, yes. And having been mobilised, you

    3 were sent to the Kaonik -- you were mobilised as a

    4 military policewoman. And for the reason that there

    5 were no women prisoners to be looked after, you were

    6 assigned to the Kaonik prison; is that right?

    7 A. I was transferred. I was a member of the

    8 military police. I was a member of the military police

    9 within the district prison.

    10 Q. So even within the district prison, your

    11 evidence is that you continued to be a member of the

    12 military police when you functioned as secretary to the

    13 warden of the prison?

    14 A. Yes.

    15 Q. Prior to that, apart from your work in your

    16 uncle's store, prior to that, did you work as a

    17 secretary to any other organisation or to a company?

    18 A. No.

    19 Q. Did you have any previous secretarial

    20 experience before being transferred to Kaonik as

    21 secretary?

    22 A. No.

    23 Q. Did you, at any point in time, function as

    24 secretary to the Security and Intelligence Service of

    25 the HVO?

  45. 1 A. No.

    2 Q. You're certain that you never functioned as

    3 secretary of the Security and Intelligence Service of

    4 the HVO headed by Anto Sliskovic (phoen)?

    5 A. No.

    6 Q. As the administrative secretary, you said

    7 when you came to the camp -- after coming to the camp,

    8 it was in early February that you met Mr. Aleksovski

    9 for the first time?

    10 A. Yes.

    11 Q. And that was about the 5th or the 6th of

    12 February of 1993?

    13 A. I did not say that. I never mentioned the

    14 5th or 6th of February.

    15 Q. Mrs. Vujica, when did you first report to

    16 work at the Kaonik prison camp?

    17 A. I was mobilised for the military police, and

    18 I started working at the military police in the middle

    19 of December 1992.

    20 Q. And you worked in the Kaonik prison facility,

    21 as you said in your evidence this morning, until the

    22 first conflict broke out on January 25th, 1993?

    23 A. From the very beginning, I worked at the

    24 district military prison.

    25 Q. When did the conflict break out for the first

  46. 1 time in the Busovaca area in 1993?

    2 A. On the 25th of January.

    3 Q. As a result of that, I take it it was your

    4 evidence that you did not come to work -- you could not

    5 come to work for about ten days from the 25th of

    6 February?

    7 A. Yes.

    8 Q. So that would mean that you came back to work

    9 after the conflict broke out on about the 5th or 6th of

    10 February, 1993?

    11 A. That's correct.

    12 Q. And it was then that you met for the first

    13 time Mr. Aleksovski as warden of the prison?

    14 A. That's correct.

    15 Q. Thank you. It was also your evidence this

    16 morning that when you came on the 5th or the 6th of

    17 February, that was about ten days after the first

    18 conflict broke out, you found a lot of Muslim civilians

    19 detained within the buildings of the prison facility?

    20 A. Yes.

    21 Q. Do you remember about how many Muslim

    22 civilians were detained in that facility when you first

    23 saw them around the 5th or the 6th of February?

    24 A. I can't remember exactly the number.

    25 Q. Where did you see them detained? In which

  47. 1 buildings of the facility did you see them detained?

    2 A. In the district military prison.

    3 Q. About how many did you see in the district

    4 military prison?

    5 A. As I said, I can't remember exactly how many

    6 of them were there.

    7 Q. Could you give us an approximate figure of

    8 how many prisoners were there, how many Muslim

    9 civilians were there the day you saw them for the first

    10 time?

    11 A. No, no, I can't remember.

    12 Q. You also said that it was on the 8th of

    13 February that those prisoners were released from the

    14 prison facility?

    15 A. That's correct.

    16 Q. That was only a day after you first saw them?

    17 A. Yes.

    18 Q. Now, Mrs. Vujica, could you please help us,

    19 where was your office when you started working as

    20 secretary in the Kaonik military prison?

    21 A. In the district military prison building.

    22 MR. MEDDEGODA: Your Honours, may I ask the

    23 usher please to show to the witness document D1, a

    24 Defence document which was shown to the witness a while

    25 ago, Your Honours. Your Honours, the picture has

  48. 1 disappeared from the screen.

    2 JUDGE RODRIGUES: It is already on the ELMO.

    3 It should be on the video too. Press "Video."

    4 MR. MEDDEGODA: There we are. Now it appears

    5 on the screen.

    6 Q. And your evidence is that that is the

    7 building that is marked "B" on the exhibit that is on

    8 the ELMO?

    9 A. Yes.

    10 Q. Was your office in that building from the

    11 very first day that you reported for duty?

    12 A. To the military police, no. I first was

    13 assigned to the building marked "A" --

    14 Q. Yes.

    15 A. -- when I arrived in the middle of December.

    16 Q. And that's the building you said which is at

    17 the entrance gate which is the building that is marked

    18 "A"?

    19 A. Yes.

    20 Q. Where in that building was your office

    21 located?

    22 A. In which building, "A" or "B"?

    23 Q. I'm asking you where in that building, where

    24 in building "A," was your office located?

    25 A. In the building marked "A." When I already

  49. 1 started working in the military police, I was there.

    2 Q. Okay. I'll take you step by step to that

    3 building. Now, what type of building was building

    4 "A"? Could you describe the building?

    5 A. Well, you heard earlier, probably there were

    6 dormitories there. I don't know. The JNA used it

    7 before. I don't know what it was used for before

    8 because I never came there before that. And nobody had

    9 access there but the JNA.

    10 Q. When you had access to it after the JNA,

    11 after the HVO took over that complex, can you tell this

    12 court -- could you describe that building to the

    13 court? Was it a building similar to the building "B"

    14 that you've marked already on the document D1, on the

    15 exhibit?

    16 A. No, they were different.

    17 Q. How was it different to that building, to

    18 building "B"?

    19 A. Building "B" was a hangar that was

    20 refurbished and cells were made. And building "A"

    21 earlier had some offices, and I think that's the

    22 difference, and it had a floor.

    23 Q. On which floor was your office, the office in

    24 which you worked?

    25 A. The ground floor.

  50. 1 Q. Do you know what else was there in building

    2 "A"? What other offices were located in building "A"?

    3 A. A kitchen and dormitories for the HVO

    4 soldiers.

    5 Q. Were the HVO soldiers present at the time you

    6 were assigned to -- when you started working in

    7 building "A"?

    8 A. Military policemen.

    9 Q. I take it that those military policemen were

    10 all dressed in the uniform of the military police or in

    11 military uniform?

    12 A. Yes, mostly.

    13 MR. MEDDEGODA: Your Honour, I don't need the

    14 exhibit anymore. It may be taken off the ELMO, Your

    15 Honours.

    16 Q. Now, as part of your secretarial functions,

    17 it was your evidence that you had to prepare the lists

    18 of -- in addition to other functions, you also had to

    19 prepare the list of prisoners who were detained within

    20 the buildings of the Kaonik facility?

    21 A. The list of detainees and civilians who were

    22 there I made at the instructions of the security chief

    23 or at the instructions of the warden.

    24 Q. I take it that the list consisted of all the

    25 detainees and the civilians who were within the

  51. 1 district military prison building and the hangar

    2 building which was adjoining the district military

    3 prison building?

    4 A. Yes.

    5 Q. And whenever prisoners and civilians were

    6 brought either to the district military prison building

    7 or to the hangar building adjoining that, you prepared

    8 such lists on the instructions of the warden of the

    9 prison?

    10 A. Yes.

    11 Q. Was there any other secretary who was charged

    12 with preparing lists of prisoners, lists of civilians

    13 and detainees, who were within the prison facility?

    14 A. No, I was the only one.

    15 Q. Were there any other officials in the camp

    16 who prepared such lists, for instance, the commanders,

    17 the guards, the shift commanders or people like that?

    18 A. The shift commanders were not allowed to make

    19 any instructions of their own. They had to receive

    20 instructions from the warden. Well, of course, only in

    21 the situations when the warden was absent they had such

    22 powers.

    23 Q. Now, do you know whether in the absence -- do

    24 you know, because you worked with the warden as

    25 secretary in the same office, do you know in the

  52. 1 absence of the warden, whether such lists were prepared

    2 by the shift commanders or by the guards?

    3 A. Only when they were taken for labour duty.

    4 Q. Could you tell us the procedure, how these

    5 lists are prepared when they were taken for labour

    6 duty? Could you please tell this court what the

    7 procedure was, how the lists are prepared by the shift

    8 commanders or by the guards when the prisoners are

    9 taken for labour duty?

    10 A. I don't know. I guess they would just take

    11 some order or sequence. I don't know.

    12 Q. So I take it that you were the only secretary

    13 that was assigned to the camp, to the prison?

    14 A. Yes, a policewoman and a secretary.

    15 Q. All right. And you were present when

    16 prisoners were taken for labour duty?

    17 A. Not always. I was not there all the time.

    18 Q. But at times, there were sometimes when you

    19 were present when prisoners were taken for duty, though

    20 not always?

    21 A. Yes.

    22 Q. How were they taken?

    23 A. At the request of some commanders of the

    24 frontline, they would request a number of people, and

    25 then the security chief would make a list. And

  53. 1 according to that list, they were sent there.

    2 Q. And they would be taken by the commanders who

    3 would come and request for those prisoners?

    4 A. Not the commanders, they wouldn't come. They

    5 would request. But military policemen would come and

    6 take the people away.

    7 Q. And it is at the time that they are taken

    8 away that a list is prepared?

    9 A. Yes.

    10 Q. Your evidence is that no list is prepared

    11 before that. It is only at the time that the prisoners

    12 are being taken away that a list is prepared?

    13 A. Before the prisoners would be taken, the list

    14 would be made.

    15 Q. Who would make that -- sorry, go ahead.

    16 A. When a policeman would arrive with a request

    17 for a certain number of people to be taken away for

    18 trench digging, the supervisor of the security service

    19 would make a list containing the names of people who

    20 would be taken.

    21 Q. And such lists would be made on the

    22 instructions of the warden of the prison?

    23 A. Yes, yes, the supervisor was in charge of

    24 that exclusively.

    25 Q. I understand that, but no list would be

  54. 1 prepared unless there were instructions from the warden

    2 of the prison to prepare such a list?

    3 A. No, the warden was not there all the time.

    4 Q. At the time when the warden was there, the

    5 warden would give such instructions, and then the list

    6 would be prepared?

    7 A. It was a routine procedure, so we knew that

    8 the supervisor would have to do that. And the warden

    9 sometimes had nothing to do with that.

    10 Q. Yes, Mrs. Vujica, I know about the warden.

    11 But at times, the warden was present in the camp, as

    12 you said before. No lists were prepared unless on the

    13 instructions of the warden of the camp; is that right?

    14 A. Yes, yes, in consultation with the

    15 supervisor.

    16 Q. Thank you. You also said in the course of

    17 your evidence this morning that another group of

    18 Bosniaks were brought to the Kaonik prison sometime in

    19 April of 1993?

    20 A. Yes.

    21 Q. Do you know approximately when those

    22 prisoners were brought in April?

    23 A. In the middle of that month.

    24 Q. That was at the time, again, when the

    25 conflict escalated in the area?

  55. 1 A. Yes.

    2 Q. I take it that it was as a result of the

    3 escalation in conflict that you could not come for work

    4 for five to six days thereafter?

    5 A. Yes.

    6 Q. I also take it that it was when you came to

    7 work thereafter that you saw that batch of Muslim

    8 civilians, Bosniaks, who had been brought to the Kaonik

    9 prison facility?

    10 A. I did not have the opportunity to see them.

    11 I heard about it and I saw a list.

    12 Q. Do you know who prepared that list?

    13 A. The supervisor, the supervisor of the

    14 security service.

    15 Q. You said you did not see them, but you only

    16 heard about them?

    17 A. Yes.

    18 Q. Who told you that the Bosniaks had been

    19 brought during that period to the Kaonik prison

    20 facility?

    21 A. Who told me?

    22 Q. Yes.

    23 A. I saw a list.

    24 Q. You said that you also saw and that you also

    25 heard about them. You said that you heard about them

  56. 1 and that you also saw a list of prisoners who had been

    2 brought in the month of April of 1993.

    3 A. After arriving, well, I would -- it is normal

    4 to ask people what is new, did something new happen,

    5 and even that's my practice today. Whenever I arrive,

    6 I say, "Are there any new prisoners," so that I know

    7 how to distribute my workload, because there was not

    8 enough electricity and I had to type fast.

    9 Q. Did you ask Mr. Aleksovski whether the

    10 prisoners had been brought in your absence?

    11 A. After arrival, I was immediately told that I

    12 would be very busy, that there is quite enough work for

    13 me.

    14 Q. Who told you that you would be very busy and

    15 that immediately they would have a lot of work for you?

    16 A. I can't remember now.

    17 Q. In your discussion, did you mention the new

    18 batch of prisoners with Mr. Aleksovski at any point in

    19 time when you reported back to work?

    20 A. Well, I did not have enough time because I

    21 didn't come there every day because I came there only

    22 once in five days or every second day. I didn't have

    23 enough time to talk. You had to enter all the data

    24 into the computer, because there were electricity cuts

    25 and there was electricity for only an hour or two or

  57. 1 half an hour.

    2 Q. Did you have time to talk to him during

    3 periods when there were electricity cuts when you did

    4 not have to work on the computer?

    5 A. Yes.

    6 Q. I take it that it is during that time that

    7 you spoke to the prison warden and to the others within

    8 the prison facility?

    9 A. Sometimes.

    10 Q. Mrs. Vujica, do you remember any visits to

    11 the camp by members of international organisations?

    12 A. Yes.

    13 Q. Could you tell this court which international

    14 organisation visited the camp during this period?

    15 A. The Red Cross and sometimes the mission from

    16 the monitor would also arrive and that's all.

    17 Q. When you say "monitor," you talk of the

    18 European Monitoring Commission, I presume?

    19 A. Yes, we called them monitors.

    20 Q. Do you remember the members of the Monitoring

    21 Commission visiting the camp on the 10th of May, 1993?

    22 A. I can't remember the date.

    23 Q. If I show you a document, maybe I may be able

    24 to assist you with your memory, if I show you the

    25 document.

  58. 1 MR. MEDDEGODA: Your Honours, I'm showing

    2 this document to the witness, a document which has

    3 already been tendered into evidence, Your Honours, as

    4 P7. May P7 be placed on the ELMO, Your Honours,

    5 Prosecution Exhibit 7?

    6 Q. Mrs. Vujica, do you see this document that's

    7 on the ELMO now?

    8 A. Yes.

    9 Q. I take it that's a list that was prepared by

    10 you?

    11 A. Yes.

    12 Q. The document is dated the 10th of May, 1993.

    13 If we look at the top of the document, the top portion

    14 of the document, there's a date which is given as the

    15 10th of May, 1993?

    16 A. Yes.

    17 Q. Below that, it says, "List of prisoners of

    18 war." Isn't that what it says below that?

    19 A. Yes. I guess I made that list at the request

    20 of the person in charge who told me to make that list,

    21 and that's what I did.

    22 Q. Precisely, I mean, that was your function,

    23 when you were given instructions, to get outside

    24 instructions. Can you kindly look at that list and

    25 tell me whether there is a name of Rusmir Pasic which

  59. 1 appears on that list that is on the ELMO before you?

    2 A. No.

    3 MR. MEDDEGODA: There is another page to the

    4 document. I suggest that the witness be shown the

    5 second page as well, Your Honour. There's a second

    6 page to that.

    7 A. No.

    8 MR. MEDDEGODA: I don't require it anymore,

    9 Your Honours.

    10 Q. Witness, I take it that it is your testimony

    11 this morning that the Muslim prisoners who were

    12 detained in the Kaonik facility were well treated and

    13 well taken care of?

    14 A. Yes, I think they were taken care of.

    15 Q. In your estimation, were any of those

    16 prisoners badly treated by the guards or by members of

    17 the HVO or the soldiers?

    18 A. I don't know.

    19 Q. Is it that you don't know or is it your

    20 evidence that they were not badly treated?

    21 A. I don't know. I don't think they were badly

    22 treated.

    23 Q. It is also your evidence, I take it, that if

    24 they were badly treated, such prisoners (sic) would

    25 have been reported to the authorities concerned?

  60. 1 A. Yes.

    2 MR. MEDDEGODA: I'm sorry, Your Honours. I

    3 think I have to repeat that question because I have

    4 used the word "prisoners."

    5 Q. I take it that if such prisoners are badly

    6 treated, whoever treated the prisoners badly, whether

    7 it be the guards or the soldiers, they would have been

    8 reported to the authorities concerned?

    9 A. Well, to my mind, a prisoner or a civilian,

    10 they're all, to me, the same. They are all prisoners

    11 there and convicts too, because I'm there, I'm in a

    12 prison.

    13 Q. And if any one of them, whether it be

    14 detainees, convicts, prisoners, civilians, any one of

    15 them, all those who are under disciplinary sanctions,

    16 if any one of them were badly treated by the soldiers

    17 or by the guards or by any of the shift commanders, I

    18 take it that it was routine duty to report them for

    19 such bad treatment to the authorities concerned?

    20 A. Yes, yes.

    21 Q. So I take it that because the prisoners were

    22 not badly treated by the guards or by the shift

    23 commanders, no such reports were made by the warden to

    24 the relevant authorities?

    25 A. We did report. If there were any excesses

  61. 1 committed by the military policemen or soldiers, the

    2 warden would notify the district military court.

    3 Q. Yes, that is, if there were excesses

    4 committed, the district military court would be

    5 notified?

    6 A. Yes.

    7 Q. I take it that as it is your evidence that

    8 there were no such excesses, therefore, there were no

    9 such reports of maltreatment to the district military

    10 court or to any other relevant authority?

    11 A. I wouldn't know. I wasn't there. I wasn't

    12 there. I had my working hours.

    13 Q. But if such reports were made, I take it that

    14 you would have prepared such reports for the prison

    15 warden because it was part of your duty?

    16 A. No.

    17 Q. Wasn't it part of your duty to type all

    18 official letters and reports that went out of the

    19 prison under the hand of the prison warden?

    20 A. Yes.

    21 Q. It was. So if such reports were to be made

    22 of excesses -- I hope you understand my question, if

    23 such excesses had taken place and reports were to be

    24 made, they would have been made by you to be forwarded

    25 under the hand of Mr. Aleksovski?

  62. 1 A. Yes, dictated by Mr. Aleksovski.

    2 Q. Dictated by Mr. Aleksovski, thank you. So

    3 the fact remains that you did not prepare such reports

    4 to be sent to the relevant authorities?

    5 A. No.

    6 MR. MIKULICIC: Your Lordship, I must object

    7 to the manner in which my learned friend for the

    8 Prosecution is asking his questions. My learned friend

    9 asks his question assuming that a witness has done or

    10 has not done something. However, the Defence in

    11 adducing this evidence has already included a report

    12 which the witness present here had typed, so that is

    13 what she did. And the Prosecution now asks, "Since you

    14 didn't write the reports, it means that there were no

    15 excesses." So the Prosecution attributes to the

    16 witness the things that the witness never said, the

    17 witness said the contrary, and it's this that we object

    18 to.

    19 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Mr. Meddegoda, first, what

    20 do you say to the objection of Mr. Mikulicic?

    21 MR. MEDDEGODA: I understand as elicited from

    22 the witness that she prepared reports when there were

    23 reports to be prepared. That is all. That is all and

    24 I have nothing more to elicit from this witness as

    25 regards the reports. It was her duty to prepare the

  63. 1 reports. That was her evidence in chief in answer to

    2 my learned friend. I have elicited from her in

    3 cross-examination that it was indeed her duty and that

    4 there was no dereliction of duty whatsoever. I'm not

    5 suggesting that at all to the witness. I'm not in any

    6 way saying that this witness did not -- that there was

    7 any dereliction of duty on her part. She, in fact, did

    8 carry out here duties diligently. And whenever reports

    9 had to be prepared, she did prepare the reports. That

    10 is all the purpose of my cross-examination, Your

    11 Honours.

    12 I'm, in fact, moving on to the other document

    13 that the Defence produced to this witness, and I was

    14 about to ask -- the next question was to go on to that

    15 particular document that my learned friend just

    16 referred to.

    17 JUDGE RODRIGUES: But be that as it may, you

    18 may ask a direct question of the witness, whether she

    19 did or did not type the reports, dictated or drafted or

    20 drawn up by Mr. Aleksovski regarding excesses committed

    21 in the prison. You can ask it directly.

    22 MR. MEDDEGODA: Yes, Your Honours. Your

    23 Honours, may the usher please give the witness document

    24 D25? Could it be placed on the ELMO, Mr. Usher? You

    25 can leave it there.

  64. 1 Q. Now, Witness, you said this morning that this

    2 document, D25, which is on the ELMO, was typed by you?

    3 A. Yes.

    4 Q. And that has on the top left-hand corner of

    5 that document, I believe it is the letterhead, the

    6 official letterhead which says that it is -- of the

    7 Croatian Defence Council of the Croatian community of

    8 Herceg-Bosna?

    9 A. Yes.

    10 Q. Although the date is illegible, it is a

    11 document prepared sometime in March of 1993?

    12 A. Yes.

    13 Q. And I find on the top right-hand corner of

    14 the document, there's some portion which has been

    15 either blocked out or there is an area which appears as

    16 if it has been blocked out. Yes, there.

    17 A. Here.

    18 Q. And this is a report addressed -- it is a

    19 report under the hand of Mr. Aleksovski as the military

    20 prison commander?

    21 A. This blackened thing, it is the copying

    22 machine.

    23 Q. And it is a report under the hand -- I'm not

    24 attributing it to anything. I was just want to go

    25 place it on record that there was a black portion which

  65. 1 is on the top right-hand corner of the document. I was

    2 not attributing any other discrepancy to that. Now,

    3 this is under the hand of Mr. Zlatko Aleksovski, the

    4 military prison commander?

    5 A. Yes.

    6 Q. You said in your evidence that it is

    7 addressed to the president, but do you know to whom has

    8 it been addressed? Is it clear to you from the

    9 document?

    10 A. Yes, it is to me.

    11 Q. It is clear to you. And to whom has it been

    12 addressed?

    13 A. President of the military court in Travnik,

    14 Mr. Prcinlic.

    15 Q. According to the contents of the report, a

    16 soldier by the name of Vlado Kristo --

    17 A. Kristo.

    18 Q. Thank you. Vlado Kristo had entered the

    19 military prison compound on the evening of the 26th of

    20 March, 1993?

    21 A. That is what it says here. I wasn't there.

    22 Q. Precisely. That's what the document says.

    23 I'm not saying that you were there. I'm just --

    24 because you prepared that report, I'm trying to get out

    25 from you the contents of that document, and that's

  66. 1 all. I'm not for the moment saying that you were

    2 present at the time when this incident took place.

    3 According to that report, Vlado Kristo had expressed

    4 his wish to see and allegedly identify a man named

    5 Krajisnik?

    6 A. Yes.

    7 Q. And since this Vlado Kristo, the soldier, had

    8 come out at official hours and, I believe, had not been

    9 in a fit condition to be admitted to the facility of

    10 the prison, and had not been given permission to talk

    11 with Krajisnik, that is, the detainee, the guards had

    12 refused his request to enter the prison facility?

    13 A. Yes, naturally.

    14 Q. Very well. And he had, however, threatened

    15 and insulted the military police personnel and got into

    16 his car and drove away?

    17 A. I don't know. I guess so.

    18 Q. And the report says that. That's what I

    19 mean. The third paragraph of the report says that his

    20 attempt was thwarted by the guards, and he got in his

    21 car and started to threaten and insult the military

    22 police personnel?

    23 A. That's what it says.

    24 Q. So on that occasion, the military police

    25 personnel, when there were such attempts, had thwarted

  67. 1 attempts by soldiers to get access to the prison

    2 facility without proper permission?

    3 A. Yes, it was their duty.

    4 Q. Thank you, Ma'am. Ms. Registrar, may I have

    5 document 26, D26, Your Honours? I hope that it is

    6 clear to you on the screen, Witness? Is the document

    7 legible to you? Can you read the document?

    8 A. Yes.

    9 Q. Now, that is a document dated the 25th of

    10 March, 1993, and I take it that this was also prepared

    11 by you on the instructions of the prison warden?

    12 A. Yes.

    13 Q. And this also is a document under the hand of

    14 the prison warden, Mr. Aleksovski?

    15 A. Yes.

    16 Q. And it is also on the letterhead of the

    17 Croatian Defence Council of the Croatian community of

    18 Herceg-Bosna?

    19 A. Yes.

    20 Q. Below that are the words "Department of

    21 Justice and General Administration, Mostar, District

    22 Military Prison Kaonik, Busovaca."

    23 A. Yes.

    24 Q. And in that, the prison commander has

    25 informed that the two cars are -- that is, a Fiat car

  68. 1 and the Lada are no longer in working order?

    2 A. Yes.

    3 Q. Now, the Department of Justice and General

    4 Administration, that was one of the departments of the

    5 Croatian community of Herceg-Bosna, of the government

    6 of the Croatian community of Herceg-Bosna?

    7 A. Yes, ministry of justice.

    8 Q. Yes. As much as the Department of Defence

    9 and the Department of the Interior and the several

    10 other departments that there were?

    11 A. Yes.

    12 Q. And these were all the departments that were

    13 established on the decree of the president of the

    14 Croatian community of Herceg-Bosna?

    15 A. I suppose so.

    16 MR. MEDDEGODA: Your Honours, I do not need

    17 that document any longer, Your Honours. Your Honours,

    18 may I have a minute. Your Honours, I'm also tendering

    19 through this witness a document dated the 16th of May,

    20 1993, a document handed over to me by my learned friend

    21 and that I'd use in the course of my case, Your

    22 Honours. There are sufficient copies for Your Honours

    23 and for the court.

    24 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Mr. Mikulicic, do you know

    25 this document?

  69. 1 MR. MIKULICIC: Yes, by all means, your

    2 Lordship, it is a document which I gave to my learned

    3 friend thinking to use it as evidence, but then I did

    4 not need it, so I didn't. But at any rate, it is a

    5 document which the Defence disclosed to the

    6 Prosecution.

    7 JUDGE RODRIGUES: And you have no objections

    8 to the contrary?

    9 MR. MIKULICIC: No, we have no objections.

    10 This document is the one that we indicated to -- that

    11 we showed to the Prosecution.

    12 THE REGISTRAR: The document of the

    13 Prosecution 135.


    15 Q. Witness, the document before you, it's

    16 indicated the 16th of May, 1993.

    17 A. Yes.

    18 Q. And it is a document of the Nikola Subic

    19 Zrinski Brigade of the Croatian Defence Council of the

    20 Croatian community of Herceg-Bosna?

    21 A. Yes.

    22 Q. And there's an order to send two prison

    23 guards and two detainees from the military-manned

    24 prison to the Prong (phoen) region as reinforcements on

    25 the defence line?

  70. 1 A. Yes.

    2 Q. And copies of the document have been sent to

    3 the military prison commander, and I take it that that

    4 is Mr. Zlatko Aleksovski, and to your files?

    5 A. Yes.

    6 Q. This has been made, this order has been made

    7 by Mr. Dusko Grubesic, the brigade commander?

    8 A. Yes.

    9 Q. Now, do you remember this order being sent to

    10 you or seeing this document in the office of

    11 Mr. Aleksovski?

    12 A. Yes.

    13 Q. Did you or did Mr. Aleksovski, in consequence

    14 of this document, send two detainees and prison guards

    15 to the Prong region, I take it, that is sent two

    16 detainees and prison guards?

    17 A. Yes.

    18 Q. Do you know whether the names of these

    19 prisoners were entered on your registers before they

    20 were sent?

    21 A. Yes.

    22 Q. Do you remember the names of those two

    23 prisoners or you do not?

    24 A. No.

    25 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Mr. Meddegoda, may I seize

  71. 1 upon this break. Mrs. Blazenka, do you remember the

    2 name of the guard?

    3 A. All police officials were largely deployed

    4 along the frontline. Specifically during that time,

    5 there was a time when they were all sent to the

    6 frontline, and these two here, they are detainees who

    7 were there on the basis of the ruling of the district

    8 military court in Travnik. That is why they were

    9 posted there, except that they were bound to come to a

    10 district military prison to sleep and to report there.

    11 JUDGE RODRIGUES: But don't you remember the

    12 names of the prisoners who were sent? I asked you if

    13 you could remember the names of the guards. There were

    14 two prisoners and two guards, and you told us that you

    15 could not remember the names of the prisoners. And I'm

    16 asking you, do you remember the names of the guards?

    17 A. No, I do not remember who those guards were

    18 up there, because subsequently they all went to the

    19 line so that they organised shifts and replenished

    20 them.

    21 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Thank you, I see. Thank

    22 you very much. Mr. Meddegoda, you may continue.

    23 MR. MEDDEGODA: Thank you, Your Honours.

    24 Q. Your evidence was awhile ago that these were

    25 two detainees who were in the military prison on the

  72. 1 orders of the district military court in Travnik; is

    2 that right?

    3 A. Yes.

    4 Q. And they were sent on this request,

    5 Mr. Aleksovski was the prison commander who authorised

    6 that they be sent as requested?

    7 A. Yes, in consultation with the president of

    8 the court.

    9 MR. MEDDEGODA: Thank you, Your Honours, I

    10 have no further questions in cross-examination. Your

    11 Honours, I want to tender that document, Your Honours,

    12 into evidence as Exhibit P135.


    14 MR. MEDDEGODA: Thank you.

    15 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Mr. Mikulicic, do you have

    16 any additional questions?

    17 MR. MIKULICIC: Your Honours, the Defence has

    18 just a few more questions for this witness.

    19 Re-examined by Mr. Mikulicic:

    20 Q. I would like to ask the usher to bring to the

    21 witness the document which is entered into the

    22 register, under the marking P7, which she commented

    23 awhile ago in the cross-examination by the

    24 Prosecution. Could you put it, please, on the

    25 machine?

  73. 1 So Mrs. Vujica, this is a document which you

    2 had the opportunity to see a few moments ago when my

    3 learned friend the Prosecutor had showed it to you?

    4 A. Yes.

    5 Q. You said that this document was at the

    6 request of your European monitors, that was handed to

    7 the European monitors at their request?

    8 A. Yes.

    9 Q. Can you tell us by looking at this document,

    10 what is it that you wrote there and what is there that

    11 you had not written? For instance, the title of that

    12 document up there, was it written by you, the list of

    13 Muslim war prisoners at Kaonik prison, did you write

    14 that?

    15 A. No.

    16 Q. Did you, Mrs. Vujica, also write, by hand,

    17 the comments in the right-hand of the document?

    18 A. No.

    19 Q. Can we then say that it was additionally

    20 added to the document which you had originally written?

    21 A. Yes.

    22 Q. Mrs. Vujica, you said that this document was

    23 written at the request of a European monitor; is that

    24 correct?

    25 A. Yes.

  74. 1 Q. Do you remember whether it was a foreign or a

    2 national of your country?

    3 A. I suppose that he was a foreigner because he

    4 had a translator with him.

    5 Q. Is that then correct that you wrote what the

    6 translator or the interpreter told you?

    7 A. Yes.

    8 Q. Mrs. Vujica, did that interpreter tell you

    9 how to write the title of this document before the

    10 list?

    11 A. Yes.

    12 Q. Is it correct that the title, the list of war

    13 prisoners, was added when the European monitor asked

    14 you or actually his interpreter?

    15 A. Correct, he or she, I can't remember, told me

    16 to do that.

    17 Q. Can you please turn to the second page of

    18 this document? Tell us, Mrs. Vujica, whether the added

    19 comments that are written by hand and not typed, are

    20 these -- was it also written by somebody else and not

    21 by you?

    22 A. Yes, somebody else wrote those comments.

    23 Q. Mrs. Vujica, we see that the document is

    24 signed by the warden of the district military prison,

    25 Zlatko Aleksovski, but there is no signature?

  75. 1 A. There is no signature.

    2 Q. Why?

    3 A. Because he was probably not there.

    4 Q. Can we then conclude that you have handed

    5 over this document at the request of European monitors

    6 in the absence of Mr. Zlatko Aleksovski?

    7 A. Yes.

    8 Q. Thank you. The Defence has no further

    9 questions for this witness. Mrs. Vujica, just one more

    10 question relating to the security situation. I will

    11 remind you, because you said in your statement that the

    12 situation, as far as the security was concerned, was

    13 not good, that there was shooting, that shells hit

    14 Kaonik itself, and that you couldn't go to work because

    15 it was dangerous; is that correct?

    16 A. Yes.

    17 Q. You also said that you had to stay home with

    18 your own child to protect him to the best of your

    19 abilities; is that correct?

    20 A. Yes.

    21 Q. You also said, Mrs. Vujica, that you suppose

    22 that the Muslim civilians who were brought to Kaonik

    23 were brought there in addition to other things because

    24 of their own security?

    25 A. Yes, I heard also that some of them came of

  76. 1 their own free will.

    2 Q. Tell us, Mrs. Vujica, if these Muslim

    3 civilian men were brought there for their own security,

    4 what happened to their children and their women?

    5 A. On the 25th of January, 1993, it was a Sunday

    6 when it all happened, and before that in Busovaca, it

    7 was market day, and everybody wondered why so many

    8 people would go into the direction of Kacuni with their

    9 livestock and children. We did not know why, but only

    10 tomorrow, a day later, we realised why did they go

    11 there.

    12 Q. Does it mean, Mrs. Vujica, that Muslim women

    13 and children, before the conflict, left Busovaca?

    14 A. Yes, mostly, yes.

    15 Q. So the houses of the Muslims who were brought

    16 to Kaonik, their women and children were not there; is

    17 that correct?

    18 A. Yes, for the most part.

    19 MR. MIKULICIC: Thank you, Mrs. Vujica. The

    20 Defence has no further questions.

    21 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Mr. Meddegoda, there are

    22 some new elements, I do not know whether you wish to

    23 clarify some points.

    24 MR. MEDDEGODA: No, Your Honours, I have no

    25 matters to be clarified from those answers.

  77. 1 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Thank you.

    2 JUDGE NIETO NAVIA: You told us that in early

    3 February 1993, a group of prisoners was released. The

    4 Red Cross documents in which the recipients are the

    5 prisoners are dated on 29th April and 12th May. The

    6 other one is not dated. Are we talking about the same

    7 prisoners?

    8 A. The 25th of April, it must have been the

    9 group from another conflict, that was brought after

    10 another conflict, because the first group was released

    11 on the 8th of February, 1993, and the second group was

    12 released sometime in the middle of March -- of May.

    13 JUDGE NIETO NAVIA: Thank you.

    14 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Mrs. Vujica, I should also

    15 like to ask you a few questions, if I may, perhaps to

    16 try to sum up your testimony.

    17 You told us that the district court in

    18 Travnik had supervisory authority over the prison; is

    19 that correct?

    20 A. Yes.

    21 JUDGE RODRIGUES: You also said that there

    22 were several categories of prisoners, that is,

    23 different categories of individuals; is that correct?

    24 A. Yes.

    25 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Could you please explain

  78. 1 who were the prisoners or who were those or what were

    2 the individuals who were under the supervision of the

    3 Travnik court?

    4 A. These were the persons who were guilty of

    5 some criminal offences like robberies or -- and who

    6 were sentenced by the district court in Travnik and who

    7 were detained there on his orders, and they were

    8 detained in our district military prison.

    9 JUDGE NIETO NAVIA: The witness said that the

    10 second group was released on May, and the transcript

    11 says on March.

    12 A. The second group, depending on the situation,

    13 the security situation in that area, that is how the

    14 groups were released, depending on what the situation

    15 was, the Muslim civilians, so that the Red Cross at

    16 that time could not release all of them, so they had to

    17 be released in groups of five or ten people. I can't

    18 remember exactly how many of them were in those

    19 groups.

    20 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Does this answer satisfy

    21 you? All right. I shall continue then. You also said

    22 that the prison -- no, excuse me. Before I complete my

    23 question, if I have understood you properly, you said

    24 that the individuals, the prisoners who were under the

    25 supervision of the Travnik court were only individuals

  79. 1 who had committed some disciplinary offences?

    2 A. No, no.

    3 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Crimes. Civil crimes or

    4 military crimes?

    5 A. Disciplinary measures.

    6 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Then those civilians who

    7 were also Muslims, were they also supervised by the

    8 court in Travnik or not?

    9 A. No, no.

    10 JUDGE RODRIGUES: And they were under the

    11 supervision of whom?

    12 A. Well, they were in charge of the Red Cross,

    13 the Red Cross took care of them. The warden also took

    14 care that they should have enough food, that somebody

    15 should not maltreat them or beat them, and they were

    16 under the control of the warden of the district

    17 military prison, because the role of the security

    18 guards and the whole -- the other personnel of the

    19 district prison was to protect those people as well as

    20 the detainees and people who were there for some

    21 disciplinary offences.

    22 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Yes, but the Red Cross did

    23 not bring those persons there?

    24 A. Yes, yes, that's correct. They were not

    25 brought there by the Red Cross, but the army brought

  80. 1 them there, and they too took care of them in some

    2 way.

    3 JUDGE RODRIGUES: So if I've understood you,

    4 what you said, there were some individuals, some

    5 prisoners who were under the supervision of the

    6 military court in Travnik, but was there another

    7 instance, some, perhaps, NGO which would be supervising

    8 individuals who were at Kaonik or wasn't there; do you

    9 know?

    10 A. No, no.

    11 JUDGE RODRIGUES: And another matter, Mrs.

    12 Blazenka. You said that the prison was a structure, a

    13 building. I've understood you to say that the prison

    14 was a civilian building? Did I understand you well?

    15 A. Yes, a civilian structure within the

    16 barracks.

    17 JUDGE RODRIGUES: So it was a civilian

    18 building which was within the barracks, so military?

    19 A. Yes.

    20 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Another matter, you also

    21 told us that Mr. Aleksovski was assigned there by the

    22 Ministry of Justice?

    23 A. I suppose so, yes. I did not see that.

    24 JUDGE RODRIGUES: But then, is it true or not

    25 that this structure, this building was guarded by the

  81. 1 military police, that is, the HVO?

    2 A. Yes.

    3 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Therefore, could you then

    4 tell us how did it all function? There was a civilian

    5 structure integrated in a military compound -- military

    6 building. The prison warden was assigned there by the

    7 Ministry of Justice. The guards were, I suppose,

    8 posted by the Ministry of Defence, that is, HVO. So

    9 how did it all function together? What were the

    10 functions, the responsibilities of the warden, apart

    11 from assigning the guards on duty? Let me add

    12 something else. You said also that it was -- that the

    13 army was responsible for the supplies. What then did

    14 Mr. Aleksovski do there?

    15 A. Mr. Aleksovski, well, his first role, and I

    16 suppose that it was the organisational structure of the

    17 military prison. He had to take care that the prison

    18 should function, and he made the house rules, which I

    19 typed, the house rules for the guards, for instance.

    20 And the same rules are applied today with some slight

    21 amendments. He also organised the bookkeeping, the

    22 records, and everything that is related to the running

    23 of a prison. It was all done at that time.

    24 JUDGE RODRIGUES: But who was the superior?

    25 Who regulated the life in the prison? Was it Mr.

  82. 1 Aleksovski or the HVO? Because --

    2 A. Mr. Aleksovski.

    3 JUDGE RODRIGUES: So it was Mr. Aleksovski

    4 who commanded, who truly commanded the prison?

    5 A. Yes, he was the warden, and the security, the

    6 prison was secured by military policemen who guarded

    7 the prisoners of all categories at his orders. And we

    8 reported disciplinary -- as far as discipline was

    9 concerned, to the military police, but we worked at the

    10 orders of Mr. Aleksovski, so there were no problems.

    11 And the military policemen fit in there quite nicely,

    12 and there were no problems between them and

    13 Mr. Aleksovski who was a civilian. And another remark,

    14 because the district prison in Busovaca is still part

    15 of the Kaonik barracks, and it is still -- the army is

    16 there, and we are a civilian prison, and the

    17 international police is inspecting us all the time and

    18 there is no problem with it.

    19 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Therefore, the rules that

    20 you spoke about, which were compounded by Mr.

    21 Aleksovski, were already in force when the Muslim

    22 civilians came?

    23 A. Yes, I think, at least, because I met Mr.

    24 Aleksovski only after arriving, just as I arrived. It

    25 was ten days after the civilians were brought there.

  83. 1 We had -- I think that the rules were made after,

    2 because there was some draft which I was supposed to

    3 type, and later, because he knew the rules in

    4 penitentiaries, so that is what he was doing. He had

    5 one copy from the house rules from the penitentiary in

    6 Tuzla and the district prison in Tuzla, and I still

    7 have it.

    8 JUDGE RODRIGUES: All right. Mrs. Blazenka,

    9 could one say at the end that Mr. Aleksovski ran the

    10 prison, bearing in mind that there were there the

    11 former barracks, and that one needed to adjust the

    12 installations for the new uses and organise the life

    13 and organise the functioning of the whole prison; is

    14 that correct?

    15 A. Well, he could not control all the

    16 facilities, because all the facilities were not part of

    17 the prison. There was just one facility in the prison

    18 itself. And as for the hangar that is mentioned here,

    19 the hangar is now used as a warehouse. So it was a

    20 temporary facility because there was no -- there were

    21 not enough satisfactory conditions to accommodate all

    22 the civilians. Because the district prison of Busovaca

    23 had only 16 cells at the time, they were 4 by 4

    24 roughly, so you can imagine how many people could be

    25 accommodated there.

  84. 1 JUDGE RODRIGUES: And another matter, and

    2 that will be my last question. You said that the

    3 building was so solid, that it was built so well, so

    4 solidly, that it could resist all the damage from

    5 shelling?

    6 A. Yes.

    7 JUDGE RODRIGUES: But that is your opinion?

    8 A. Yes, luckily not a single shell hit the

    9 facility, and if any shell had hit it, there must have

    10 been damage. They were just lucky.

    11 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Yes, but according to you,

    12 perhaps that building was also solid -- built solidly

    13 in order to prevent the escape of prisoners?

    14 A. Yes.

    15 JUDGE RODRIGUES: So it was solidly built for

    16 two reasons, for the security of the people who were

    17 there and also to prevent the prisoners, the detainees

    18 from fleeing?

    19 A. That building was not built for prisoners,

    20 because the original use was not as a district prison.

    21 This is what we inherited from the former JNA. I don't

    22 know when it was even built. I might not even be born

    23 at the time. I know that the walls are quite thick and

    24 quite solid.

    25 JUDGE RODRIGUES: All right. Mrs. Blazenka,

  85. 1 I think that the Chamber has no further questions to

    2 ask you. You have, therefore, completed your testimony

    3 here before the International Tribunal. Thank you very

    4 much for coming, and we wish you a pleasant journey

    5 home. Thank you.

    6 THE WITNESS: Thank you, too.

    7 (The witness withdrew)

    8 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Mr. Mikulicic, what shall

    9 we do now?

    10 MR. MIKULICIC: Your Honours, the Defence has

    11 also envisaged eight witnesses for this week, but

    12 because of objective reasons, we could not bring one

    13 witness, and we now have seven witnesses. Thanks to

    14 the efficient work, if I may say so, with the help of

    15 Your Honours and the Prosecution, the Defence has

    16 completed with its witnesses and we do not plan to

    17 bring any other witness this week.

    18 JUDGE RODRIGUES: If I may then, I need to

    19 consult my colleagues on a matter. All right. We

    20 shall now proceed to a closed session, because I think

    21 we should have something of a status conference to

    22 solve various matters, and will the technicians,

    23 please, take the necessary measures so that we can go

    24 into a closed session? Is it all right? Thank you

    25 very much.

  86. 1 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at

    2 12.15 p.m. sine die

























Page 3070