Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 11752

1 Friday, 9 July 2004

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 [The witness entered court]

5 --- Upon commencing at 9.02 a.m.

6 JUDGE LIU: Call the case please, Mr. Court Deputy.

7 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. This is Case Number

8 IT-02-60-T, the Prosecutor versus Vidoje Blagojevic and Dragan Jokic.

9 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.

10 Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

11 Ms. Issa, do you have any cross-examination?

12 MS. ISSA: Yes, I do. Good morning, Your Honours.

13 JUDGE LIU: Yes, please.


15 [Witness answered through interpreter]

16 Cross-examined by Ms. Issa:

17 Q. Good morning, sir.

18 A. Good morning to you, too.

19 Q. Now, sir, yesterday in your examination-in-chief, you testified

20 that the signature of the commander was required on the combat report,

21 whether they were -- whether it was the interim combat report or the daily

22 combat report. Do you recall saying that?

23 A. Yes, I remember that and I stand by that assertion.

24 Q. Well, let's look at the interim combat report which you saw

25 yesterday dated 14th of July. Perhaps we could have that momentarily.

Page 11753

1 JUDGE LIU: For the sake of the record, Ms. Issa, would you please

2 tell us the number of that document.

3 MS. ISSA: I believe it's Exhibit 520, Your Honour.

4 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.

5 MS. ISSA: And it may have been referred to yesterday as 120, but

6 it should be 520 just for clarity sake.

7 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.

8 MS. ISSA: Perhaps we can put the B/C/S version on the ELMO,

9 please. And if we can just move it up a little bit so we can see the

10 bottom of the interim -- the report. Thank you.

11 Q. Now, sir, do you see a signature on that report? And just so that

12 you're aware, that report was found in the Zvornik Brigade and that's the

13 original. Do you see a signature on that report?

14 A. I don't see the signature, but I see the name of the chief of

15 staff.

16 Q. Yes. And his name is typed in there, isn't it?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Thank you. Now, I just want to talk about the --

19 MS. ISSA: Thank you, Madam Usher. I don't think we need that

20 anymore.

21 Q. I just want to talk about yesterday you talked about the mixing up

22 of dates. You said that you had mixed up your dates yesterday when you

23 had told investigators in Banja Luka that you took the Doboj special

24 police groups to the Maricici and Snagovo area on the 14th and 15th of

25 July as opposed to the 13 and 14 July. Do you remember telling us that?

Page 11754

1 A. Yes, that's what I said.

2 Q. As I understood your testimony, sir, you said that you had

3 remembered the correct date by looking at the documents, the duty officer

4 notebook. Is that right? Is that what helped you refresh your memory?

5 A. Yes. I knew who was the duty officer and I knew my own

6 activities. So in my mind I moved it by one day forward. I had said that

7 I was not sure about dates and times because after so many years it's very

8 difficult to remember the exact dates and hours.

9 Q. Well, according to the proofing notes, sir, when you met with

10 Mr. Stojanovic, you indicated to the Defence team that you had in fact

11 refreshed your memory by looking at Milan Maric's statement and the

12 tactical intercepts. Isn't that right?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. So it was really Milan Maric's statement that assisted you in

15 refreshing your memory. Isn't that what happened?

16 A. It is. Later after I had seen that notebook, he told me that it

17 was a day before than I had thought when giving my statement to

18 investigators in Banja Luka.

19 Q. Was it in fact the statement of Maric that helped you refresh your

20 memory about the details of where you were on that day?

21 A. Yes. His statement helped me remember and so did the review of

22 this logbook.

23 Q. Okay. Now, as I understood your testimony yesterday, sir, you

24 indicated that you returned to the barracks from the field on 14 July

25 around 6.00 a.m. Is that right?

Page 11755

1 A. Yes. That's what I said.

2 Q. And where were you for the rest of the day on that date, 14 July?

3 A. I can't remember what my activities were on that day, but I

4 believe I either attended a funeral, because I was part of that organ for

5 morale, or I was in the field calling on the telephone the units that were

6 supposed to provide a replacement for the next day in Sekovici on the 15th

7 of July.

8 Q. And where were you in the evening?

9 A. In the evening -- you mean the 13th?

10 Q. The 14th of July. That's what we're talking about.

11 A. On the evening of the 14th, I was at the barracks where I spent

12 the night. I slept there. And I asked to be woken up at 6.50 a.m. the

13 next morning.

14 Q. Okay. And just to clarify that, sir, because I wasn't sure you

15 understood what date we were talking about. During the day on the 14th of

16 July after you returned from the field at 6.00 a.m., can you tell us where

17 you were?

18 A. As I said, I cannot remember all my activities in every tiniest

19 detail. I either attended a funeral or I was preparing a funeral, plus I

20 was preparing a unit that I was supposed to take to Sekovici the next day

21 to replace some men there. And I said I had spent the night at the

22 barracks asking to be woken up at a certain time, as stated in my written

23 statement.

24 Q. Okay. Now, where would you be if you were preparing a unit to go

25 to Sekovici? Where would that occur?

Page 11756

1 A. That could only have done -- that could only have been done from

2 my own office because that's where I had a telephone set and I was

3 organising a unit to provide that replacement.

4 Q. Okay. Well, turning then to Exhibit Number P232, I would just

5 like to show you an intercept, sir, which is dated 14 July.

6 MS. ISSA: And if I can ask Madam Usher to place the English

7 version on the ELMO.

8 Q. This is a conversation that took place, sir, when Mr. Jokic was

9 the duty officer on the 14th of July. The time is 2102. And if we go to

10 the very -- to about the middle of the page, a reference to X. And I'll

11 just read it. It says: "Hello. Is the operations duty officer looking

12 for me? Go ahead. Vojanovic is not here, he is up at Snagovo. There are

13 some problems there at the line I've told you about. The Turks have

14 pushed our guys back toward Crni Vrh."

15 There isn't anybody named Vojanovic in the Zvornik Brigade, is

16 there?

17 A. The only Bojanovic at the Zvornik Brigade at the headquarters was

18 myself.

19 Q. All right.

20 A. But let me tell you one thing, the duty operations officer did not

21 necessarily have to know where I was. He had only heard probably that I

22 had taken a replacement unit there, as I said. And after the linkup was

23 carried out, I would have come back to work and I could have been in my

24 office with other duty operations officers seeing me.

25 JUDGE LIU: Yes, Mr. Stojanovic.

Page 11757

1 MR. STOJANOVIC: [Interpretation] I'm sorry, Your Honour, and I

2 apologise to Ms. Issa. It is not my intention to interrupt, moreover

3 because the witness had already answered. But to avoid problems in the

4 transcript, in this transcript we do not see the name of Bojanovic with a

5 B but Vojanovic with a V. And the question was whether there was anyone

6 with a name of V, Vojanovic. Maybe it would be a good idea to ask the

7 witness whether this intercept bears a reference to him at all because

8 this is a different surname.

9 JUDGE LIU: Thank you. Thank you. I think this issue has to be

10 clarified.

11 Ms. Issa, would you ask some questions to this witness?

12 MS. ISSA: Sure, Your Honour.

13 Q. There is nobody named Vojanovic with a V in the Zvornik Brigade,

14 is there, sir?

15 A. No, not in the Zvornik Brigade, but there could have been one at

16 the command of one of the battalions or it could have been a company

17 commander in some company, but there was no one in our command with a V,

18 Vojanovic surname.

19 Q. And you don't personally know anybody with that name, do you.

20 You're speculating now, aren't you?

21 A. I couldn't honestly know all the members of the Zvornik Brigade by

22 name, so this is only my guesswork.

23 Q. Okay. And you, in fact, are the only person named Bojanovic,

24 isn't that right, as you told us moments ago?

25 A. At the command. At the time.

Page 11758

1 Q. And your explanation earlier to us was that you simply thought

2 that the duty officer just had no idea where you were when he told -- when

3 he was -- indicated that you were up at Snagovo. Is that your

4 explanation?

5 A. Yes. He didn't have to see me, nor did I have to report to him.

6 I just went back to my office. As these are two different rooms, it's

7 quite possible that we hadn't seen each other, that our paths hadn't

8 crossed.

9 Q. But you would agree with me, sir, when it's stated Bojanovic or

10 Vojanovic "is not here, he is up at Snagovo. There are some problems

11 there at the line, I told you about. The Turks have pushed our guys back

12 toward Crni Vrh." That appears to be a very definitive statement. He

13 doesn't -- in other words, he doesn't say "I think he's up at Snagovo," he

14 seems to be quite certain. Isn't that right?

15 A. But I am equally certain that after that taking that unit to

16 Captain Maric I returned to the barracks immediately, so that at time I

17 was not at Snagovo. While I was at Snagovo from 4.00 onwards, there were

18 no problems there whatsoever.

19 Q. Okay. Let's go to the barracks logbook on 14 July.

20 MS. ISSA: And I believe, Your Honour, that's Exhibit P134.

21 Q. Now, you have that in front of you, sir. And I'm asking you to

22 look at that report. It says towards the end of the page: "A bus with

23 prisoners stayed overnight at the compound of the barracks."

24 Now, you told us, sir, you spent the night there on the 14th July.

25 A. Excuse me. I can't see it here. I can't read this.

Page 11759

1 Q. Well, perhaps Madam Usher can assist you. We can turn then to

2 page dated 14/15 July.

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Do you see at the top of the page it says: "Report on the

5 situation in the barracks"?

6 A. Give me just one minute to read it so I know what it's all about.

7 Q. Okay.

8 A. I found the spot.

9 Q. Okay. So you found the spot where it says: "A bus with prisoners

10 stayed overnight at the compound and the barracks."

11 My question is a simple one, sir. Did you see that when you spent

12 the night there?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. A busload of prisoners. Yes?

15 A. I did not see that bus and I could not have seen it. This report

16 was written by the duty officer of the barracks who acted with the same

17 duties as the duty operations officer. The duty operations officer worked

18 at the command, and this one worked at the gate. So he could have been

19 there and spent the night in the vicinity of the buses that left in the

20 morning. This is the duty officer who stood at the main gate. And

21 neither I nor the duty operations officer had to know about this. It was

22 only recorded later in the report.

23 Q. So your answer is simply that you didn't see it. Right?

24 A. Yes. Yes. I assert that I did not see it.

25 Q. Thank you, sir.

Page 11760

1 I'll move on to other areas. Now, I understand, sir, that since

2 we're dealing with the issue of the duty officer that you told us

3 yesterday that you were the duty officer on the 23rd of July and the 24th.

4 Isn't that right?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And you also said that you always write in Cyrillic. Is that

7 right?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Well, I'd like to go to the duty officer workbook for that date,

10 23rd of July. If we could, please.

11 MS. ISSA: Thank you, Madam Usher.

12 And for the record, that's P133.

13 Q. Now, that appears to be the 23rd of July duty officer workbook

14 that we're all looking at. You have that there, sir, the Zvornik Brigade?

15 A. Yes, and this is my handwriting.

16 Q. Okay. I'd like you to turn to the second page, please, and if we

17 could also turn to the second page. Now, it says there, sir, and I'm

18 going to read that out slowly: "Skelani have two injured Turks (they cut

19 themselves with glass) I told them to kill them since Bratunac doesn't

20 want to take them."

21 Do you see that there?

22 A. Yes, I saw that. And this is my handwriting; however, the message

23 was received by another person, probably my assistant, while I was busy

24 doing other work. And this nonsensical statement of mine -- it's true

25 that I wrote it, but I did so carried by emotion. Let me explain

Page 11761

1 something. This is a place about 100 kilometres or 200 kilometres away

2 from Zvornik. We didn't have any contact with that unit, and I was very

3 surprised because the previous entry in Latinic script was done at 2045

4 and I let my assistant handle that. He noted something down and then the

5 line went down. What did he write? He said that two Turks were injured

6 because they cut themselves on glass shards. Bratunac was not willing to

7 receive them. I as the duty officer had no authority to order them to do

8 this. I don't know whether they would have done so, I doubt it. But in

9 any case, I had no authority to issue them this order. I as a duty

10 operations officer had no authority to issue any orders within my brigade,

11 let alone to somebody else in another brigade far away from me. God knows

12 what it was. It could have been a provocation.

13 Q. But nevertheless, sir, you are admitting that you wrote that. And

14 you said, "I told them to kill them since Bratunac doesn't want to take

15 them. Isn't that right? And that's a simple question that requires a yes

16 or no answer.

17 A. Yes, but as I said I was carried away and I wrote this down and I

18 told him: If they call again, tell them this. And I'm certain that if

19 they had indeed called again, my instructions would not have been

20 followed.

21 Q. You're certain of that? Now --

22 A. 100 per cent.

23 Q. Okay. Let's go then to Exhibit Number -- well, let me ask you

24 this: Do you know what happened to these two Muslims which you refer to

25 here?

Page 11762

1 A. Believe me, it's a unit 100 kilometres away from our forces. We

2 were engaged in other activities and the line was not established again.

3 I'm certain that they were given the necessary assistance.

4 Q. Okay. Well, then let's go to the Bratunac Brigade MP log dated 23

5 July.

6 MR. KARNAVAS: President.

7 JUDGE LIU: Yes. Yes, Mr. Karnavas.

8 MR. KARNAVAS: If I could raise an objection at this point in

9 time. This is from -- dated July 23/24, 1995, generated by Mile Petrovic

10 and also it makes reference to a Mile Janic. Mile Petrovic was brought

11 here by the Court and he testified and was cross-examined by the

12 Prosecution. Mr. Janic was brought in by the Defence, was cross-examined

13 by the Prosecution. Under Rule 90(H)(ii), it is very clear that the party

14 has to put their case to the witness under cross-examination, a rule that

15 was instituted as a result of the late Judge May's insistence based on the

16 common law principles of evidence which is very common in the UK.

17 So I object to any references to this document on the basis that

18 there was no testimony taken from those individuals with respect to this

19 document when they appeared. So if they wanted to -- and I don't see how

20 this gentleman now can comment on this document. Those are my objections.

21 JUDGE LIU: Well, frankly speaking, we know -- but the Prosecution

22 hasn't put her question yet. We don't know how she could use this

23 document yet.

24 MR. KARNAVAS: Very well. I just want to make sure I'm alerting

25 everybody that I may have to jump up again.

Page 11763

1 JUDGE LIU: Very well. You have the right to jump up again at a

2 later stage.

3 You may proceed.

4 MS. ISSA: Thank you, Your Honour.

5 Q. All right. Now, sir, that's a daily -- the MP log from the

6 Bratunac Brigade, dated the same date of 23 July, 24 July. And if we look

7 at the very centre of the page, there's a reference and I'll read that

8 out. "During the day six Muslims were brought in and are now in custody.

9 Two other Muslims were brought later, but they were sent back, since when

10 they were in detention at Skelani they had cut their throats with a bottle

11 and were already bleeding heavily. They were sent back."

12 Did you know, sir, that the Bratunac Brigade took these two

13 Muslims that you had referred to earlier in your report?

14 A. No, I didn't know. I'm seeing this document for the first time.

15 It means that Skelani after all managed to establish a line with Bratunac,

16 which is much nearer and more realistic than establishing a connection

17 with Zvornik.

18 Q. Okay. But that's just your presumption, isn't it?

19 A. Well, from this report I can say that they must have established

20 this contact because we see from this that the people were taken back and

21 assisted from Bratunac.

22 Q. Do you know what ultimately happened to these two people, sir,

23 that you stated in your duty operations report to kill them?

24 A. I've already said that I had no idea, nor was I interested

25 particularly because this area was 100 kilometres away from me and I had

Page 11764

1 other much more important duties at the command of the brigade.

2 Q. All right. If we can then move to another document, P871.

3 MS. ISSA: And for the record, Your Honour, the previous MP log

4 was P872.

5 If we can perhaps put page number 03074166 before the witness and

6 on the ELMO, please.

7 Q. Now, this appears to be a report from the Republic of Serbia MUP

8 at Bajina Basta state border crossing. Okay. Now, you have that B/C/S

9 version in front of you, sir, and as I say that's from the MUP of Republic

10 of Serbia. And if I can just very briefly go over it with you. The first

11 paragraph reads: "We hereby inform you that at 1400 hours on the 23rd of

12 July, 1995, at the official premises of the Banja Basta KPDG SM we handed

13 over the following persons and items to the Bratunac KPG border crossing

14 control police station."

15 And there's a list of names. And if we go to the second page at

16 number 7 and 8 a reference is to a Sadik Salihovic, son of Hakija, born 26

17 June 1965, in Srebrenica. Last place of residence in Srebrenica. And

18 number 8, Hamdija Delic, son of Ahmo, born 25 May 1972, in Srebrenica.

19 Also last place of residence in Srebrenica.

20 And in the very last paragraph it states: "Please note that in

21 line with the agreement of the CRDB, employees, the first six persons were

22 handed over at the Ljubovija border crossing, while Salihovic and Delic

23 were handed over at the Bajina Basta border crossing because they had

24 injured themselves in the meantime order to avoid being handed over."

25 Do you see that, sir?

Page 11765

1 A. Yes, I can see that. I've read it.

2 JUDGE LIU: Yes, Mr. Karnavas.

3 MR. KARNAVAS: If I may, because I think we may be able to

4 circumvent a lot of this. I anticipate what's going to happen next is

5 we're going to see --

6 MS. ISSA: Your Honour --

7 MR. KARNAVAS: Your Honour, I'm entitled to make my objection.

8 JUDGE LIU: Let me hear his objection first.

9 MR. KARNAVAS: Thank you, Your Honour.

10 JUDGE LIU: I haven't heard his objection, but you should not give

11 any hint to this witness.

12 MR. KARNAVAS: I'm not going to give any hint. There are no hints

13 here. She need to lay a foundation. She's going to show that these

14 gentlemen disappeared. Then she's going to leave the impression that this

15 gentleman had something to do with it. So unless she can lay a

16 foundation, because they are injured.

17 MS. ISSA: This is outrageous.

18 JUDGE LIU: Well, well.

19 MR. KARNAVAS: We need a foundation before we go into this line of

20 questioning.

21 MS. ISSA: Your Honour, I'm going to ask that he be stopped,

22 please.

23 JUDGE LIU: Yes.

24 Mr. Karnavas, I think Ms. Issa is going to do that and we haven't

25 heard the question yet.

Page 11766

1 MR. KARNAVAS: I would like a foundation.

2 JUDGE LIU: Maybe these two persons injured themselves with glass,

3 and maybe not. We don't know. And this witness may know or may not.

4 MR. KARNAVAS: If the suggestion is going to be that this

5 gentleman -- that those people who were killed as a result of this

6 gentleman. I would like a foundation.

7 MS. ISSA: I'm going to ask Mr. Karnavas to stop talking otherwise

8 we're just --


10 MR. KARNAVAS: Your Honour, I would appreciate if I would be able

11 to make my record. I understand she's getting instructions from McCloskey

12 to do these things. But I would appreciate it if I'm entitled the

13 courtesy of being heard.

14 MS. ISSA: Your Honour, that's absurd.

15 MR. KARNAVAS: I would like a foundation to this line of

16 questioning. That's all I'm asking for.

17 JUDGE LIU: Well, Mr. Karnavas, I believe you have the right to

18 make the objections on these issues, there's no problem on that. And I

19 think the transcript has already registered your objections there.

20 MR. KARNAVAS: Thank you.

21 JUDGE LIU: That's no problem. On the other hand, I think this is

22 too early. I mean your objection is too early. We haven't heard the

23 question yet. Later on, step by step, Ms. Issa will lead us to that.

24 MR. KARNAVAS: Very well, Your Honour.

25 JUDGE LIU: Let's hear the question from Ms. Issa, please.

Page 11767

1 MS. ISSA: Thank you, Your Honour.

2 Q. Now, perhaps we can go to the record which is the very first page

3 of the stack that I provided Madam Usher, page 03074162. Just very

4 briefly, sir, we see at the bottom that the Skelani police officer Milan

5 Perendic took over these two persons Sadik Salihovic and Hamdija Delic,

6 which are listed in this record of the takeover persons and items in the

7 Bajina Basta OUP. Do you see that there, sir? Now, did you know that

8 Mr. Milan Perendic gave a statement to the OTP in which he said that as

9 the duty officer of the Skelani police station, he received these two

10 Muslim men from Bajina Basta and that he handed them off to the Bratunac

11 Brigade and that these two men had injured themselves on their necks with

12 broken glass. Did you ever speak to Mr. Perendic from Skelani?

13 A. For the third time, I have explained that I have nothing

14 whatsoever to do with this because this is 100 kilometres away. At those

15 times it was a very big distance, so I wouldn't know who these people are.

16 And as far as I can tell from this report, the last two people who were

17 injured, they had been armed, which means that they were members of the

18 armed forces. They were not tourists, I'm sure. But they inflicted

19 wounds on themselves. And I really don't know what else to tell you. I

20 haven't a clue what happened in Skelani -- in Bratunac and so on and so

21 forth.

22 Q. Well, sir, according to you, you noted down that Skelani

23 specifically had these two people and you told them to kill them. So you

24 seem to know a little bit more than you're telling us.

25 JUDGE LIU: Yes, Mr. Stojanovic.

Page 11768

1 MR. STOJANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, objection to the

2 wrong record. He -- the witness says that he wasn't who wrote that but

3 his assistant. One can tell exactly what he wrote because it is in the

4 Cyrillic and the original -- part of the original is in the Latinic

5 script. There are two handwritings, one is the Latinic and the other is

6 the Cyrillic script, so this is a misrepresentation on the part of the

7 Prosecution.

8 Your Honour, can you please look at page 02935796 in B/C/S. And

9 you can see exactly who spoke on which telephone and you can tell the

10 difference between the two handwritings. This witness said what he had

11 did and what he wrote down.

12 JUDGE LIU: I see this question is clear, but if you have any

13 problems, I believe that Ms. Usher -- Ms. Issa, I'm sorry, could you

14 please ask some questions to clear this up for us again.

15 MS. ISSA: Okay, Your Honour. I'll try to perhaps find another

16 way to do it.

17 Q. These two people, sir, these two men that we now have seen records

18 of that ended up having been sent to Bratunac ultimately, according to

19 your duty officer notebook, there's a reference here to Skelani. So you

20 telling us that you don't know anything about Skelani and what's going on

21 isn't entirely true, is it? There's a reference here to Skelani having

22 these two injured people, and you admitted that you, in fact, wrote down:

23 "I told them to kill them." Isn't that right?

24 MR. KARNAVAS: Your Honour, I'm going to object on the grounds of,

25 one, it mischaracterises the evidence, and two, it's been asked and

Page 11769

1 answered. The gentleman has already answered --

2 JUDGE LIU: We give the permission to Ms. Issa to repeat somehow

3 the questions she already asked.

4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] To be honest, what I said, I adhere

5 by that. It is the first time that I learn their names and I know even

6 less about their lot.


8 Q. Well, sir, you told us earlier that you wrote this as some

9 nonsensical, you know, thing that you wrote in there. But there appears

10 to be a reality behind it, doesn't it?

11 MR. KARNAVAS: Objection. Again, there's a lack of foundation.

12 MS. ISSA: Your Honour, what's the lack of foundation?

13 JUDGE LIU: Well --

14 MR. KARNAVAS: Because now --

15 JUDGE LIU: I understand.

16 Ms. Issa, but your question in the simplest way again. Just ask:

17 Did you write down this sentence in the logbook?

18 MS. ISSA: Well, I think he's already told us that he has,

19 Your Honour, but I can ask the question again.

20 JUDGE LIU: I understand, but there's some questions on that.

21 MS. ISSA: Okay.

22 Q. You told us earlier that you wrote down the sentence: "I told

23 them to kill them since Bratunac doesn't want to take them." Isn't that

24 right?

25 A. That is correct. And that is what I said. I was carried away by

Page 11770

1 emotion and I told them if they appeared again, this is what you are to

2 do. Again, I am wondering what has the Zvornik Brigade to do with Skelani

3 and the secretary of the interior and Bratunac and so on and so forth.

4 Q. Well, sir, we're -- I just -- I'm asking you that you seem -- I'm

5 suggesting to you that you seem to know a little bit more about this

6 because of the reference you made to killing them. I mean obviously

7 Skelani contacted you. Isn't that right?

8 A. The contact was with my assistant. He was the one who received

9 the message. I did not contact with them. I don't know who was -- who

10 called. It turns out that it was not anybody unknown. I've told you

11 everything I know and there is nothing else.

12 Q. Well, it's fair to say that you as the duty officer, it is your

13 responsibility to know what is going on for the day, at that time, not

14 your assistant. Isn't that right? That's a very simple question.

15 A. It is not simple, not at all simple. And I have already answered

16 all your questions and I've told you everything I know. I did not have to

17 know what happened with them. I was not their officer and I really don't

18 know. This is the first time I learned their names, and I'm telling you

19 this again. I can't remember even the names of my men from my brigade who

20 had been killed let alone to be able to remember names of other people

21 who -- I don't know.

22 Q. Well, that wasn't the question. The question was: It was your

23 responsibility to know what was going on for the day because you were the

24 duty officer. Isn't that right? That's the question.

25 A. It was not my duty. They were not under no obligation to report

Page 11771

1 to me or to contact me. It was not my obligation to know what their lot

2 was. It was not part of my job. I don't know what other words to use to

3 explain things to you.

4 Q. All right.

5 MS. ISSA: Thank you, Your Honour. I don't have any further

6 questions.

7 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.

8 Any re-examination? Yes, Mr. Stojanovic.

9 MR. STOJANOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. With

10 your leave, both for your benefit and to clarify, we'll just go through

11 this once again.

12 Re-examined by Mr. Stojanovic:

13 MR. STOJANOVIC: [Interpretation] Please Madam Usher show the

14 witness a copy of this logbook and place it, please, on the overhead

15 projector so it is visible to the witness and to the Trial Chamber. Put

16 the copy in the B/C/S.

17 Q. Mr. Bojanovic, please pay attention. We need to clarify this for

18 the Trial Chamber. It says 031-854-389. And then in handwriting:

19 "Skelani have two injured Turks in their hands."

20 The question is: Who is talking with Skelani? Whose handwriting

21 is this?

22 A. It's the handwriting of my assistant who is in the same offices as

23 me. It's completely different to the note written in my handwriting

24 further below which I made carried away my emotion. I did not hear any of

25 that conversation they had with my assistant. The line was bad and I had

Page 11772

1 no further information on the fate of these two subjects.

2 Q. Another question: It's a very simple one. Did you ever talk to

3 somebody from Skelani at all?

4 A. No, no way.

5 Q. When you made that note which you admitted to, after writing it,

6 did anyone call again from Skelani?

7 A. No, nobody called again nor did we express any further interest in

8 that case, although we did have their telephone number because we were

9 taken up with our own duties.

10 Q. Thank you. Let us just finalise this. When you say: It's not

11 many my job description, do you mean to say I don't care what is going on

12 in Skelani, which is not the zone of responsibility of the Zvornik

13 Brigade?

14 A. Yes, that's what I mean. It's the problem of their internal

15 organs. What I'm concerned with is the zone of defence of the Zvornik

16 Brigade.

17 Q. Please, Mr. Bojanovic, tell us for the benefit of the Trial

18 Chamber. What municipality do Skelani belong to or is it a municipality

19 in itself. Just give an idea to the Court, how far is that?

20 A. If you look at a map Skelani is a smaller municipality, I believe

21 over 100 kilometres away from Zvornik located on the left bank of the

22 Drina River. I have never even been to Skelani, but looking at a map I

23 can give you this information.

24 Q. And my last question to you: Have you ever heard what eventually

25 happened with those injured prisoners?

Page 11773

1 A. Never. I forgot all about them the moment the line was

2 disconnected. I didn't call again and they didn't call again. I had my

3 own job to take care of.

4 MR. STOJANOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. No

5 further questions.

6 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.

7 Mr. Karnavas.

8 MR. KARNAVAS: Thank you, Mr. President, I have no questions.

9 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.

10 [Trial Chamber confers]

11 JUDGE LIU: Well, at this stage are there any documents to tender?

12 Mr. Stojanovic?

13 MR. STOJANOVIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour. We don't have

14 any documents to tender because all the documents we have used are already

15 admitted into the record and marked for identification. But I have to

16 draw the Trial Chamber's attention to the transcript of yesterday's

17 hearing. We used Exhibit P120 of the Prosecution, which is a combat

18 report of the Zvornik Brigade of the 14th of July, 1995, which is on the

19 record -- it's in evidence as P520. If you remember that collection of

20 attachments or annexes to Butler's report. So we were using P520 [as

21 interpreted].

22 JUDGE LIU: Thank you very much.

23 On the part of the Prosecution are there any documents to tender

24 through this witness?

25 MS. ISSA: Yes, Your Honour, there are. Excuse me. P133/A bis 1

Page 11774

1 which is essentially the English translation of the entry dated the 23rd

2 of July, Your Honour. P134, which is the barracks logbook -- I'm sorry,

3 that's already been admitted into evidence. P871, which is the

4 documentation pertaining to the two Muslim witnesses Salihovic and Delic

5 which is dated 23rd of July. And P872, which is the Bratunac Brigade

6 police daily log entry dated 23 July.

7 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.

8 Any objections? Mr. Stojanovic.

9 MR. STOJANOVIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour.

10 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.

11 Mr. Karnavas?

12 MR. KARNAVAS: Well, Your Honour, I do object to the introduction

13 of P872. If it is going to be used -- if any contents in that are going

14 to be used against the Bratunac Brigade, since again under Rule 90(H)(ii),

15 two witnesses appeared in court. At that point in time the Prosecution

16 should have put their case to those particular witnesses. If, on the

17 other hand, the document is merely being introduced today for the sole

18 purposes of verifying that two individuals who had cut their throats were

19 brought to the Bratunac Brigade and turned back, in relation to this

20 gentleman's testimony, then I have no objections.

21 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.

22 These three documents are admitted into the evidence. It is so

23 decided.

24 Well, Witness, thank you very much for coming to The Hague to give

25 your evidence. We wish you a pleasant journey back home. The usher will

Page 11775

1 show you out of the room. You may leave now.

2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] If I may ask, Your Honour, for your

3 leave to make some comments about the work of the Tribunal in The Hague.

4 I would like first of all to express my gratitude for the correct attitude

5 of all the parties, the Trial Chamber, the Prosecution, and the Defence,

6 and I would like to thank the Victims and Witnesses Unit. I would also

7 like to thank the interpreters who did their job very professionally. And

8 I believe that this decent attitude and professional work of the Tribunal

9 of The Hague will help break -- help remove the wrong ideas some people

10 may have about it.

11 JUDGE LIU: I thank you very much indeed.

12 [The witness withdrew]

13 JUDGE LIU: Well, Mr. Stojanovic, do we have another witness on

14 the list?

15 MR. STOJANOVIC: [Interpretation] Unfortunately, Your Honour, we

16 have not prepared the next witness to arrive today. We've been informed

17 earlier today by the Victims and Witnesses Unit that our next witness, who

18 is going to be protected, is arriving tomorrow at 7.00 p.m. because of

19 problems with the transfer. And we will be able to meet with him tomorrow

20 evening and on Sunday to prepare him for Monday. Let me just add that

21 according to the schedule we have submitted to you and our own timetable

22 we plan to take up one day with this witness, leaving cross-examination

23 for Tuesday, followed by the examination of four other witnesses who are

24 arriving on Tuesday and Wednesday evening. Let me just make a small

25 adjustment to Friday, 16th of July, because we were informed yesterday

Page 11776

1 that the videolink examination would have to be postponed due to technical

2 problems. Therefore, I took steps yesterday through our investigator and

3 the Victims and Witnesses Unit that the witness planned for 19th of July

4 be here earlier, that is on the 16th of July so that we are able to work

5 and gain one day in relation to our schedule to fill the days that have

6 been allocated to us.

7 JUDGE LIU: Well, thank you very much for your information. I

8 believe that this Bench hopes that we'll have one-witness/one-day momentum

9 and we have a very tight schedule in July. So I hope we could make up for

10 the days we lost in the future proceedings.

11 What's the protective measures? Do you know? Is it closed

12 session or the voice distortion, because since we are going to have this

13 witness next Monday, I believe that there are some logistic preparations

14 needed if the witness requests this kind of protective measures.

15 MR. STOJANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour. As we have

16 stated in our written submission, when I talked to the witness some two

17 weeks ago he asked for the closed session, meaning full protective

18 measures. And this is what we have announced and we hope that you would

19 be able to grant these protective measures in view of the delicate

20 situation of this witness and the position that he held at the time as

21 well as problems that he might encounter in the future.

22 JUDGE LIU: Any objections?

23 MS. ISSA: No, Your Honour.

24 JUDGE LIU: Thank you. We could say that the protective measures

25 for the next witness are granted.

Page 11777

1 At this stage are there any other matters that the parties would

2 like to raise to the attention of this Bench? It seems to me there are no

3 other matters. And I have to remind the parties that today is the 9th of

4 July. Early on we gave some orders to Mr. Blagojevic as well as his

5 counsel concerning the testimony of the accused. We still have several

6 hours for today, so I hope you could make the best use of the time

7 available to try to establish a kind of connection. Maybe we could have

8 some feedback next Monday or Tuesday.

9 Yes, Mr. Karnavas, you want to say something?

10 MR. KARNAVAS: I was going to say something. If we could go into

11 private session, though.

12 JUDGE LIU: Well --

13 MR. KARNAVAS: There --

14 JUDGE LIU: I prefer that --

15 MR. KARNAVAS: We can handle it in open session --

16 JUDGE LIU: No. I prefer that we have some feedback next week.

17 MR. KARNAVAS: Okay. Very well, Your Honour.

18 JUDGE LIU: Because this afternoon I specifically --

19 MR. KARNAVAS: I understand, Your Honour --

20 JUDGE LIU: Give you some time to deal with this matter.

21 MR. KARNAVAS: I fully understand, Your Honour. I will make every

22 effort --

23 JUDGE LIU: I just remind you that it's still on our agenda. We

24 did not forgot it here.

25 MR. KARNAVAS: Neither have I, Your Honour, and I just want to

Page 11778

1 make sure the Court knows that efforts have been made and I have tried to

2 be diligent.

3 JUDGE LIU: Well, it seems to me that we'll adjourn earlier. As I

4 said, we should make up the time we lost. For the lost time, we sit

5 longer. Yes. So, have a nice weekend. The hearing is adjourned for this

6 week.

7 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned

8 at 10.02 a.m., to be reconvened on Monday,

9 the 12th day of July, 2004, at 2.15 p.m.