Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 5813

1 Monday, 1 October 2007

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 --- Upon commencing at 9.03 a.m.

5 JUDGE PARKER: Good morning.

6 I understand that there are some issues you would raise first

7 Mr. Mettraux.

8 MR. METTRAUX: Good morning, Your Honours. Thank you very much.

9 Yes, there are three brief issues and for the first one we would wish to

10 go into private session, Your Honour.

11 JUDGE PARKER: Private.

12 [Private session]

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Page 5815

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13 [Open session]

14 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.

15 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, the second application is more of an

16 embarrassment than anything else but it is going to made on behalf of both

17 Defence team.

18 You will remember, Your Honour, that last week that the

19 Prosecution filed a motion to have a number of documents admitted in

20 evidence, and Your Honour had requested the Defence to respond within

21 three days of the Prosecution filing which in effect would fall today and

22 require to us respond in the course of this day.

23 Because of the events of last week, and the amount of preparation

24 also involved in this witness and the next witness, it has proved

25 extremely difficult for the Defence to be ready on time. We would

Page 5816

1 therefore seek leave from the Trial Chamber for an extension of time

2 perhaps until Thursday which would allow us to provide a meaningful

3 response to the Defence to the Prosecution application. We also

4 understand that the Prosecution would have no objection to the request

5 being made. What we can indicate also to Your Honour which may, in a way

6 compensate for this request, the two Defence will file a common response

7 which may, at the end of the day, save some time.

8 [Trial Chamber confers]

9 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Mettraux, given that there will be a break of a

10 week and a day, it would seem preferable if the outcome of this motion

11 could be known before the break so that, as necessary, planning could

12 occur during the break and the knowledge of what is the outcome.

13 With that in mind, the Chamber would look to have your motion

14 on -- your submissions on Wednesday rather than Thursday.

15 Is that feasible?

16 MR. METTRAUX: Very well.

17 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.

18 MR. METTRAUX: There is a third matter, Your Honour, very briefly

19 which we would like to raise.

20 You will recall that during the re-examination of the witness

21 Mr. Tucker, Mr. Saxon raised a number of issues pertaining to one

22 particular document which was the report prepared by the commission set up

23 by Mr. Boskoski to look into the matters of Ljuboten.

24 And in particular, Mr. Saxon asked the question of the witness as

25 to the origin of the document, or, rather, how this document had come into

Page 5817

1 the possession of the Office of the Prosecutor. The Defence at the time

2 had objected to the question being put and Mr. Saxon had indicated at the

3 time that he stood corrected and withdrew his question.

4 We had the opportunity to discuss this matter further with the

5 Office of the Prosecution, and the Defence of Mr. Boskoski and the

6 Prosecutor have agreed to a certain stipulation or specification which

7 agreeable to both parties and I would wish to read it on the transcript.

8 Having discussed the matter, the parties have agreed that it is

9 not in dispute that the report prepared by the commission set up by

10 Mr. Boskoski on 13 August of 2001, numbered 02-581/01, admitted as exhibit

11 P378 was provided by the Ministry of Interior of the Republic of Macedonia

12 to the Office of the Prosecutor of the ICTY no later than 18 September,

13 2001.

14 That will be all, Your Honour. Thank you.

15 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.

16 I take it that is a matter that is accepted, Mr. Saxon.

17 MR. SAXON: Absolutely, Your Honour.

18 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you, Mr. Mettraux.

19 Mr. Apostolski, is there a matter you have to raise?

20 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] There's no matter that I would

21 like to raise, Your Honours.

22 I left it to my colleague, Mr. Mettraux, on behalf of both teams

23 to present these propositions.

24 JUDGE PARKER: Was there something about an expert witness.

25 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.

Page 5818

1 The expert witness -- the expert is in -- in The Hague in the

2 gallery; therefore, he will follow the trial from the gallery.

3 JUDGE PARKER: Very well. Thank you.

4 Is there any other matter?

5 MR. SAXON: No, Your Honour.

6 JUDGE PARKER: In that case, we can continue. Thank you

7 [The witness entered court]

8 JUDGE PARKER: Good morning, Mr. Bushi.

9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.

10 JUDGE PARKER: If I could remind you the affirmation you made at

11 the beginning of your evidence still applies.

12 Mr. Mettraux.

13 MR. METTRAUX: Thank you, Your Honour.


15 [Witness answered through interpreter]

16 Cross-examination by Mr. Mettraux: [Continued]

17 Q. Good, Mr. Bushi.

18 A. Good morning.

19 Q. You recall that that last week I asked you a number of questions

20 about the representation of ethnic Albanians in public offices; do you

21 recall that?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And in response to a number of questions that I put to you, you

24 said that what really counted were not the number of Albanians in elected

25 positions but the number of Albanians working in ministries and so on. Do

Page 5819

1 you recall?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Are you aware, Mr. Bushi, that at the time when you took up arms,

4 the Macedonian state was attempting to increase the number of ethnic

5 Albanians in public employment; are you aware of that?

6 A. This is not true.

7 Q. Isn't that correct, Mr. Bushi, that your activities, your criminal

8 activities in fact made the process of integration of ethnic Albanian more

9 difficult rather than facilitating as you claim you were attempting to do.

10 Do you agree with that?

11 A. I could wouldn't call them criminal activities and what you're

12 saying, sir, is not true.

13 MR. METTRAUX: Could the witness please be shown 1D119, please.

14 It is an exhibit.

15 Q. Mr. Bushi, the document that I will show to you, it will appear in

16 Macedonian on your screen. This is a report from the Ministry of the

17 Interior, it is the Department for International Cooperation and European

18 Integration. It is dated 24th of April of 2001 and the subject is

19 negotiation regarding training for newly recruited police officers in

20 cooperation with the US embassy in the Republic of Macedonia.

21 And if you look at the first paragraph in this document, I will

22 read it out to. It says this: "It refers to a meeting of the 18th of

23 April, 2001. The meeting was held in order to discuss assistance in the

24 training of 500 newly recruited police officers with support from the US

25 department of finance -- programme which is administered through the US

Page 5820

1 embassy in Macedonia.

2 If you look to the next paragraph it says this: "The training

3 programme is aimed at increasing the number of police officers from ethnic

4 minorities living in the Republic of Macedonia with priority given to

5 ethnic Albanian candidates. The programme is to be completed by October

6 2002. Training will be performed successively in groups of approximately

7 100 candidates who will then be deployed to work in the area in which they

8 reside, that is, areas which are predominantly populated by ethnic

9 Albanian citizens."

10 Mr. Bushi, were you aware of these measures being taken or

11 undertaken by the Ministry of Interior to increase the number of ethnic

12 Albanians within that ministry?

13 A. Sir, you should consider the fact that the war started on the 14th

14 of February. This document is dated 18th April, while the first training

15 started when the BDI became part of the coalition, ruling coalition.

16 Q. But isn't the case, Mr. Bushi, that this programme sponsored by

17 the United States had started to function in the year of 2000. Are you

18 aware of that?

19 A. No, I'm not. And I don't know to what extent it is true.

20 Q. Then if you look down on the document it says this: "The

21 following was agreed at the meeting. The immediate formation of a

22 Ministry of Interior commission which will establish the criteria for

23 admission as well as the exact number of candidates, 100, that need to be

24 recruited in the first phase in addition to a publicity campaign in the

25 channels of public information." And then it goes on to say: "The

Page 5821

1 proportion of candidates that will be recruited, Director Kaziriski

2 [phoen] recommended that 60 per cent be ethnic Albanians, 20 per cent

3 Macedonian of the Islamic faith and members of other nationalities living

4 in Macedonia, and 20 per cent ethnic Macedonians in order to maintain a

5 certain level of balance which relates to the factual situation."

6 Were you aware of these efforts being made between the Ministry of

7 Interior, Mr. Bushi?

8 A. These efforts began when the war ended. Before the war and when

9 the war started, the Ministry of Interior made no efforts and the

10 government at the time was not willing to carry out these changes.

11 Q. Well, Mr. Bushi, you will agree that on 24th of April 2001, what

12 you call the war was still going on. Do you agree with that?

13 A. I agree.

14 Q. And that's the date of this report. Do you agree with that?

15 A. I agree.

16 Q. In fact your activities made this process, which was ongoing

17 almost impossible. It is because of your actions that it could not go

18 faster. Do you agree with that?

19 A. That is not correct.

20 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, I will also refer the Chamber to the

21 evidence of Mr. Galevski on the 18th of July of 2007. It is at page 3725

22 to 3730.

23 Q. Mr. Bushi, I'm also putting it to you that you were not content

24 just to make the process more difficult but you actually made attempts or

25 made sure that the process of integration of ethnic Albanians into

Page 5822

1 ministries and other public offices would be difficult or -- impossible

2 because if it did work out, it would deprive you of an excuse for your

3 activities. Do you agree with that?

4 A. No, I don't, sir. The integration should have happened in the

5 1990s up to 2001. While this integration in fact began when the Ohrid

6 Agreement was signed.

7 Q. Sir, do you know a village called Brest on the border between

8 Macedonia and Kosovo?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And do you know what happened in the village of Brest during the

11 first week of the month of March of 2001?

12 A. There was a conflict there; I don't know exactly. You mean in

13 2001, early 2001? Beginning of March? Well, yes, the war was ongoing at

14 that time.

15 Q. Do you recall a particular incident on the 8th of March 2001,

16 involving Mr. Boskoski and his then deputy minister, an ethnic Albanian by

17 the name of Refet Elmazi. Do you recall that incident?

18 A. Yes, I do.

19 Q. And what Mr. Boskoski and Mr. Elmazi were doing in Brest at the

20 time, they went there to try and open mixed police station, Albanian and

21 Macedonian. Is that correct?

22 A. No, that's not correct. They went there on another mission.

23 Refet Elmazi the deputy interior minister and Ljube Boskoski, the minister

24 of the interior, they went there to appeal for the war to stop. They did

25 not go there to open a police station of mixed composition.

Page 5823

1 Q. Well, that is not quite right, Mr. Bushi. I put it to you what

2 they did is they went to Brest, both Mr. Boskoski and his deputy minister

3 an ethnic Albanian, to try to open a mixed police station and what they

4 did, they were greeted by members of your organisation who attacked them

5 and murdered one of the police officer. Is that correct?

6 A. No, it is not correct that they went to open a police station of

7 mixed composition. They went on another mission. They went to appeal to

8 the citizens, to the villagers to stop the war. You know that the war

9 started on the 14th of February, both Refet Elmazi and Ljube Boskoski were

10 surrounded by former NLA soldiers at that time. And with the mediation of

11 certain persons they were released.

12 Q. And the ethnic Albanian who saved Mr. Boskoski's life at the time

13 was shortly after executed by a member of the NLA. Is that correct?

14 A. Which person are you referring to, sir?

15 Q. Local ethnic Albanian who had provided shelter to Mr. Boskoski and

16 a number of other members of the Ministry of Interior during the attack by

17 your group.

18 A. This is not true and I want to know which person you are referring

19 to. Can you mention his name and last name? Maybe that will ring a bell,

20 but as you're putting it now, I don't remember anything.

21 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, concerning the incident in question we

22 will refer the Chamber to Exhibit P45, that is the white book of the

23 Ministry of Interior, in particular at page 110, that's N005-7606-0112.

24 It is also mentioned in Exhibit P42, that Mr. Boskoski's book. In

25 particular at N000-N607-ET-14. The incident was also discussed by a

Page 5824

1 number of Prosecution witnesses, Mr. Galevski on the 18th of July of 2007,

2 at page 3727 to 3728 and 3733; by Mr. Zoran Trajkovski on the 24th of

3 September of 2007, at page 5561 to 5652; and also by Witness M-051 on the

4 27 of August of 2007 at page 4157 to 4158.

5 Q. Is it correct, Mr. Bushi, that your organisation also threatened

6 ethnic Albanians and kidnapped a number of them with a view to prevent

7 them from joining the Ministry of Interior. Is that correct?

8 A. No. That is not correct.

9 Q. You would agree that if this had happened, it would be unlikely to

10 contribute to ethnic Albanians joining the Ministry of Interior. Would

11 you agree with that?

12 A. That's not correct. At the time there were members of the ethnic

13 Albanian community who were members of both the police and the army of

14 Macedonia.

15 MR. METTRAUX: Could the witness please be shown 1D18, please,

16 1-8. It is Exhibit 1D18, I apologise. Thank you.

17 Q. Mr. Bushi, this is a report from the organisation OSCE. There is

18 no Macedonian or Albanian version of this document, so I will read it out

19 to you.

20 It is a special report. It is called, human rights related

21 complaints related to the ethnic Albanian armed group in the Tetovo area.

22 And I will read to you the first two paragraphs of this document. It says

23 this: "On Friday, July 20, the mission human rights specialist spent the

24 day in the Tetovo area continuing to address human rights concern

25 specifically related to the conduct of the ethnic Albanian armed group in

Page 5825

1 that region. The allegations under investigation related not only to the

2 group's treatment of ethnic Macedonian in the Tetovo but also towards

3 persons in the ethnic Albanian community who objected to the ethnic

4 Albanian armed group's activity or --" There are two words I can't read.

5 Then goes on to say: "The mission specialist confirmed reports

6 from the OSCE Tetovo area monitors that even during the cease-fire, the

7 ethnic Macedonian civilian population north of Tetovo is under heavy

8 pressure from the ethnic Albanian armed group to leave. This pressure

9 takes the form of kidnappings, temporary detentions and serious persistent

10 forms of intimidations and restrictions on the movements of civilians

11 attempting to engage in order activities such as agriculture, shopping and

12 going to work. The conduct of the ethnic Albanian armed group is

13 consistent with an attempt to ethnically cleanse that area."

14 Mr. Bushi, were you aware of those activity by your colleagues

15 from the Tetovo area?

16 A. Sir, this is not true, that my colleagues from Tetovo carried out

17 these activities. There is one truth, the -- this happened on the part of

18 the Macedonian security forces when in Bitola they burned houses and they

19 also kidnapped civilians from their own houses, Ruzhdi Veliu,

20 Sulthan Mehmeti from Struga, Hani from Veleshta and other persons who were

21 taken by the Macedonian police forces from their own houses. In Manastir

22 of Bitola there was no NLA presence, but this is what the Macedonian

23 security forces did in Manastir; they burned their shops, they burned the

24 mosque. But what you are saying here is just a statement by one single

25 person.

Page 5826

1 Q. Well, I'm putting to you Mr. Bushi that every time your

2 organisation is faced with accusations of crimes, you choose between three

3 alternative explanations: One, it did not happen; two, the Macedonians

4 did it; or, three, it was the splinter groups that did it. Do you agree

5 with that?

6 A. These are facts, sir. This is not something that I'm making up.

7 These are facts and that is why I appeal to you to show me a single case

8 or an example of terrorism or criminal activity. You're just putting to

9 me statements. You're not giving me any facts.

10 MR. METTRAUX: Could we turn to the next page of this document,

11 please. And I will ask the registry to focus on the third paragraph on

12 this page, please.

13 Q. Mr. Bushi, this is still the same document from the OSCE and I

14 would like to read a sentence which is in the middle of the paragraph

15 started with the word: "The mission is most likely." And I will read it

16 out to you.

17 The OSCE said this: "As of 23rd July, the mission has received

18 credible allegations that 25 persons have disappeared or are allegedly

19 detained by the ethnic Albanian armed groups operating in the Tetovo area.

20 This number includes ethnic Macedonian civilians and ethnic Albanians who

21 were serving in the Ministry of Interior as regular officers or as

22 reservists at the time of their disappearance."

23 So what you and your organisation were doing, Mr. Bushi, in fact

24 was to prevent or make it impossible or extremely dangerous for members of

25 any ethnic group, Macedonian, Albanian or otherwise, to work in any of the

Page 5827

1 ministries of the Macedonian government. Do you agree with that?

2 A. No, I don't.

3 Q. And when this very -- when this very statement was put to a member

4 of the OSCE, he was asked whether such kidnappings would create a

5 disincentive for anyone to be joining the Ministry of Interior and he

6 agreed. Would you also agree with that, Mr. Bushi?

7 A. No, I don't agree with this either.

8 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, this is the transcript of Mr. Bolton,

9 7 June 2007, page 1662 to 1664..

10 Q. Mr. Bushi, you will remember that the Prosecution asked you a few

11 questions about the Ohrid Framework Agreement and I also did so last week.

12 Do you recall?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And I also put it to you that the reason why the NLA was not

15 involved in the negotiation or the signing of that agreement was whether

16 the international community and the Macedonian authority regarded it as

17 a -- let's say, an unapproachable partners for peaceful discussions. Do

18 you agree with that?

19 A. I already said that the -- what the Albanian political parties

20 came up with that was orchestrated by Ali Ahmeti and this goes for the

21 Ohrid Framework Agreement as well.

22 Q. Well, I'm putting it to you, Mr. Bushi, that the international

23 community, the people who negotiated or assisted the negotiation of the

24 Ohrid Framework Agreement with the legitimate political parties in

25 Macedonia wanted no business with you. Is that correct?

Page 5828

1 A. No, that is not correct. There were negotiations at the time with

2 our commander Ali Ahmeti. There were representatives from the

3 international community. There were negotiations going on to put an end

4 to the war and sign the Ohrid Agreement.

5 MR. METTRAUX: Could the witness please be shown P45. That's the

6 "White Book" and I will ask the registry to go to page N005-7606-0170; in

7 the Macedonian, it will be N001-5211. This is at page 168 of the book in

8 the English translation.

9 I'll ask the registry to focus on the bottom of the page, starting

10 with the words: "NATO condemns the violence." Thank you.

11 Q. Mr. Bushi, what I'm about to read to you is a statement made by

12 the general secretary of NATO, Lord Robertson. It was made on the 24th of

13 May of 2001. This is what he said: "I strongly condemn recent actions by

14 extremist groups in the Republic of Macedonia, in particular their

15 continued presence in several occupied villages and their attacks on

16 government security forces. Their actions are imposing grave risk and

17 hardship on the very people whose rights they claim to support. The

18 regrettable casualties and damage caused by their conflict with government

19 forces is the direct result of their unjustified occupation of towns and

20 villages in the north of the country.

21 "We must be very clear that the former Yugoslav Republic of

22 Macedonia is an established and well-functioning democracy. It has

23 recently formed a grand coalition involving the major ethnic Albanian

24 political parties. This coalition is engaged in a broad-based effort to

25 seek democratic solutions to the country's problems. I support these

Page 5829

1 efforts and urge the government to continue to find ways of addressing the

2 legitimate concerns of its public Slav, Albanian and others through

3 democratic political means. There is no justification, none for any

4 citizens of this nation, to take up arms against the government."

5 And then he goes on to say this: "The future of the nation can

6 only be decided by democratically elected individuals working through this

7 peaceful political process. The international community will only work

8 with these legitimate political representatives, not armed extremists.

9 The men of violence, such as the leaders of the so-called NLA, have no

10 place in this process. They have no democratic legitimacy and, thus, no

11 place at the negotiating table. They cannot achieve with a bullet what

12 can only be addressed through the ballot."

13 You agree, sir, Mr. Robertson as Secretary-General of NATO, as

14 well as all other political leaders, internationals and Macedonians,

15 refused to deal with you when they negotiated the Ohrid Framework

16 Agreement. Do you agree with that?

17 A. This is not true. The negotiations about the Ohrid Agreement did

18 not start on this date. They started later, and it is true that NATO was

19 one of the guarantors of the signed Ohrid Agreement. To this day,

20 negotiations are ongoing between Ali Ahmeti, as representative of our

21 political party, and NATO representatives. To this date, I have not seen

22 or witnessed any negotiations between NATO or the US and terrorists.

23 Q. Well, you can at least agree with that, Mr. Bushi, is that not a

24 single member of your organisation put his signature to the Ohrid

25 Framework Agreement. Do you agree with that?

Page 5830

1 A. This is true, because they were not present.

2 Q. Do you remember that I asked you a number of questions about

3 Ali Ahmeti, your leader, and a number of other leaders of your group, and

4 the measures that had been taken against them, in particular, travel bans

5 and freezing of assets. Do you recall me asking you those questions?

6 A. I remember very well and I said that this was at the beginning of

7 the war and to the end of the war. But now, Mr. -- Mr. Ahmeti travels all

8 around the world, whereas Mr. Thaci has not been anywhere.

9 MR. METTRAUX: Would you agree that the measures which were --

10 A. He is still on the black list. Mr. Thaci is still on the black

11 list.

12 Q. And you will agree that the basis for the measures which were

13 taken at the time against Ali Ahmeti and other members of your

14 organisation was because they were the leaders of a terrorist or extremist

15 organisation. Do you agree with that?

16 A. I don't agree that they were leaders of an extremist organisation.

17 They were leaders of a regular army of the National Liberation Army, and

18 the sanctions were set at the start of the war.

19 MR. METTRAUX: Could the witness please be shown what is Rule 65

20 ter 1D117.

21 Q. Mr. Bushi, what I'm about to show you, and again I apologise there

22 is no Macedonian or Albanian translation of that document. But what I'm

23 about to show you is a so-called presidential executive order, numbered

24 13219, dated June 26 of 2001. And it is adopted by the president of the

25 United States at the time, President George Bush. I will read out to you

Page 5831

1 what this document says. It says -- the title is blocking property of

2 persons who threaten international stabilization efforts in the Balkans --

3 in the western Balkans. And it goes on to say that the order is adopted

4 by the authority of the president. And it says this: "I, George W. Bush,

5 president of the United States of America, have determined that the

6 actions of persons engaged in or assisting, sponsoring or supporting, one,

7 extremist violence in the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, southern

8 Serbia, the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and elsewhere in the western

9 Balkans."

10 And then further down he explained that the person designated by

11 the secretary of the treasury -- that would be -- further down on the

12 page, please. "In consultation with the secretary of state because they

13 are found: (A) to have committed or to pose a significant risk of

14 committing acts of violence that have the purpose or effect of threatening

15 the peace in or diminishing the stability or security of any area or state

16 in the western Balkans region, undermining the authority, efforts or

17 objectives of international organisations or entities present in the

18 region or endangering the safety of persons participating in or providing

19 support to the activities of those international organisations or

20 entities. Or," and then (B) is irrelevant. "Materially to assist in,

21 sponsor or provide financial or technological support for or goods or

22 services in support of such acts or violence or obstructionism; or to be

23 owned or controlled by or acting or purporting to act directly or

24 indirectly for or on behalf of any of the foregoing persons that are --"

25 MR. METTRAUX: And if we could turn the page, please.

Page 5832

1 Q. "-- or hereafter, come within the United States or that are or

2 hereafter come within the possession or control of the United States,

3 persons, are blocked and may not be transferred, paid, exported withdrawn

4 or otherwise dealt in."

5 And if we could turn to -- two page further down. It would be

6 1D00-1578, please.

7 Then, Mr. Bushi, there is the list of person who is are concerned

8 by there presidential order from George Bush and it starts with Mr. Xhevat

9 Ademi, a member of the NLA. Do you know him?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And then there's Mr. Ali Ahmeti, again, NLA. Do you know him?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Mr. Nuri Rexhiti of the NLA. Is that someone you know as well?

14 A. I have heard him, but I don't know him.

15 Q. And then if you go down the list a little bit, there's a man

16 called Hasan or Hasan Xhavit, NLA. That man was your so-called officer

17 for morale, isn't it, Mr. Bushi, the man who you say was in charge of

18 morale in your brigade?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. If you go down the list -- if you go down the list there is also

21 Mr. Ostreni Gezim. Do you see him?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And another member of the NLA called Hisni Shaqiri. Do you know

24 him?

25 A. Yes, I know him.

Page 5833

1 MR. METTRAUX: And if the registry could please turn the page.

2 Q. Mr. Veliu, the -- one of the political leaders of your movement is

3 also mentioned there. Do you see him?

4 A. Yes, I know him.

5 Q. And if you look at the list of organisation, your organisation,

6 the so-called National Liberation Army, NLA, or UCK is also mentioned on

7 this document. Is that correct?

8 A. Yes, I see that.

9 Q. So you will agree that at least as far as the United States is

10 concerned, still on the 26th of June of 2001, your organisation and its

11 leaders were regarded as extremists which were destabilising the western

12 Balkans. Do you agree with that?

13 A. Sir, I said earlier and repeat it again. This was up until the

14 end of the war, on the 26th of September, 2001. Today, Mr. Ahmeti and

15 Mr. Ostreni, they travelled all around the world, including the United

16 States and Europe and they're not on the black list. I will say it again,

17 Mr. Thaci, Mr. Matoshi, they are still on the black list.

18 Q. But if we can stay, Mr. Bushi, with the year 2001 at this stage.

19 You will agree that as you mentioned all through the, what you call the

20 war, your organisation and its leaders were regarded as terrorists or

21 extremists by the international community. Do you agree with that?

22 A. I agree that was the case at the start of the war, because that's

23 how the Macedonian government, the police and the army introduced us, but

24 at the end of the war, politics changed, everything changed.

25 Q. If you could tell me this, do you consider the 26th of June of

Page 5834

1 2001 to be the beginning of the war, Mr. Bushi?

2 A. I wouldn't say that the beginning, but I wouldn't have said the

3 end either.

4 Q. Are you aware of the fact that on the day when this -- or a day

5 later rather when this presidential order was issued by President

6 George Bush a press statement was issued by the White House to explain the

7 purpose of this document. Are you aware of that?

8 A. No.

9 MR. METTRAUX: Could the witness please be shown Rule 65 ter

10 1D715, please.

11 Q. Mr. Bushi, the document is a statement of the press secretary of

12 the White House on behalf the president of the United States.

13 MR. METTRAUX: It is Rule 65 ter 1D715, please.

14 Q. Mr. Bushi, while we're waiting for the document to appear on your

15 screen, I will read it out to you. It is dated the 27 of June of 2001.

16 MR. METTRAUX: I'm grateful to the registry, thank you.

17 Q. The White House said this: "The United States has joined with its

18 European allies and other countries of the United Nations in strongly

19 condemning the terrorist violence perpetrated by armed extremists

20 determined to destabilize the democratic multi-ethnic government of

21 Macedonia. Their violent tactics threatened US and international efforts

22 to promote regional peace and stability and pose a potential danger to US

23 military forces and other Americans supporting peace keeping efforts.

24 "Macedonian President Trajkovski has asked for our support to

25 combat these extremists who are undermining the political dialogue

Page 5835

1 currently under way among Macedonia's legitimately elected leaders. This

2 dialogue offers a real opportunity for a negotiated and peaceful

3 settlement. As the president stated in Europe, we must face down

4 extremists in Macedonia and elsewhere who seek to use violence to redraw

5 borders and subvert the democratic process."

6 So you will agree, sir, that -- I'm not talking about the

7 beginning of what you call the war, but on the 27th of June, of 2001, the

8 United States was pretty clear that it considered your organisation and

9 the leaders of that organisation to be an extremist organisation that was

10 a destabilizing factor in the democratic Republic of Macedonia. Do you

11 agree with that?

12 A. As I said earlier, this is not the beginning, nor the end. I know

13 that upon signing of the Ohrid Agreement, on the agreement, on that

14 particular agreement the word terrorist does not appear. And that was on

15 the 13th of August.

16 Q. And in the next two paragraph, Mr. Bushi, the document discussed

17 the measures, the particular measures that are adopted in the presidential

18 order that I have discussed with you beforehand, and I don't wish to read

19 that to you. But I'll go to the last-but-one paragraph where the document

20 states that the purpose of the actions taken by the president of the

21 United States and it says this: "The purpose of these two actions is to

22 send a clear message to the extremists and their supporters in the region

23 who actively obstruct and undermine peace and stability, that such tactics

24 are unacceptable and that we will use the means at our disposal to isolate

25 these groups and individuals and cut their access to financial support".

Page 5836

1 And it goes on to say this: "For the first time in history, we

2 have democratic government throughout south-east Europe. Legitimate

3 grievances must be addressed through the democratic process. As President

4 Trajkovski said on Tuesday, Macedonians must reinvigorate the political

5 dialogue with all legitimate parties; the men of violence must lay down

6 their weapons so that all Macedonian citizens can live in peace."

7 Mr. Bushi, were you aware of those calls by the president of the

8 United States that you and your organisation should lay down your arms to

9 give peace a chance in Macedonia?

10 A. We were aware. I'd like to add some things.

11 In the Macedonian parliament, an amnesty was passed related to the

12 NLA fighters. Tell me if in any country of the world terrorists are being

13 amnestied.

14 Q. Well, what I can ask you is this, Mr. Bushi, did you benefit from

15 the amnesty?

16 A. In what aspect?

17 Q. Well, did you receive a guarantee from the Macedonian state that

18 you would not be prosecuted for your criminal activities during the year

19 2001?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Are you aware also, Mr. Bushi, that the European Union adopted

22 similar measures, similar restrictions on the travel and assets of your

23 leaders, the leaders of your group?

24 A. I know but as far as I know, today from 2001, upon the end of the

25 war in 2001, and the -- the parliamentary elections taking place then, all

Page 5837

1 the former leaders of the NLA can freely travel around the world.

2 Q. But would you agree that still in the middle of July of 2001 and

3 thereafter, the European Union considered you and the leaders of your

4 group to be extremists. Do you agree with that?

5 A. But not terrorists.

6 Q. But you agree that they were referring to you as an extremist

7 organisation and your leaders as extremists. Do you agree with that?

8 A. Up until the end of the war, that was the case.

9 Q. I will simply show you the document in question so that you can

10 see if it correspond to your memory of things.

11 MR. METTRAUX: It is Rule 65 ter 1D118. Has an ERN of 1D00-1580.

12 Q. Mr. Bushi, again, this is a document in English only. This is the

13 record of a meeting of the EU council at Brussels on July 16 to 17, 2001.

14 It is an extract on south-east Europe.

15 And if I can draw your attention on the second paragraph of that

16 document, it says this: "The council adopted a common position (see annex

17 1) banning the issue of visas to extremists, which will be implemented in

18 due course by a subsequent decision on the basis of a recommendation by

19 high representative Javier Solana. The council reiterate on this occasion

20 its condemnation of all forms of extremism in the region."

21 Does that accord with your memory, Mr. Bushi?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. If we turn to page 1D00-1584, please.

24 Mr. Bushi, this is the actual annex of the same document which was

25 referred to in first paragraph and it contains the council common position

Page 5838

1 of 2001 concerning a visa ban against extremists in the Federal Republic

2 of Macedonia, and I will read out to you the conclusions drawn by the

3 council. It says this: "In its conclusions of 11 June 2001, the council

4 expressed its growing certain at the serious deterioration of the security

5 situation in the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, and condemned the

6 continued terrorist actions by ethnic Albanian extremists."

7 So just stopping there for a moment, isn't that the case

8 Mr. Bushi, that the EU, just like the United States was calling you in the

9 alternative, extremists or terrorists or in any case referred to your

10 actions as terrorist acts or terrorist actions. Do you agree with that?

11 A. I wouldn't have said terrorist actions. War was still going on.

12 When these conclusions were adopted and I -- I said it and I'll say it

13 again. All the leaders of the KLA from 2002 onwards, they travel freely

14 around the world and they have no obstacles on the way.

15 Q. In conditions to or conclusion to, I should say, the EU council

16 said this: "In its conclusions of 25 June 2001, the council continued to

17 condemn all forms of terrorism in the western Balkan region and remain

18 committed to preventing such action from undermining the democratic

19 process, including through restrictive measures such as a visa ban against

20 extremists." And then it says: "No visa should be issued to extremists

21 endangering peace and stability in the Federal Republic of Macedonia and

22 threatening the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Federal

23 Republic of Macedonia. And then the council also take notes of the fact

24 that the EU considers the alignment of the central and eastern European

25 countries associated with the EU, the associated countries Cyprus, Malta

Page 5839

1 and Turkey and EFTA countries members of the European economic area to be

2 important in order to maximise the impact of this common position."

3 So you will agree, sir, that at least on the 16 and 17 or still on

4 the 16 and 17 of July of 2001, the EU and associated countries still

5 referred to your organisation as extremists that had recourse to terrorist

6 actions. Do you agree with that?

7 A. I wouldn't have said terrorist actions. And all this was up until

8 the signing of the Ohrid Agreement. Sir, today, in 2007, General

9 Stojkovski can still not have Visas to travel the world.

10 Q. Do you recall also that --

11 A. He was commander of the Lions.

12 Q. Do you recall also that I asked you a few questions about measures

13 adopted not at the international but at the national level by a number of

14 states in relation to activities by members of your organisation, and I

15 think I mentioned Switzerland, and in response you said that such things

16 did not happen. It is page 5799. Do you recall?

17 A. Repeat that again, please.

18 Q. Do you recall that last week in the course of my questioning, I

19 asked you a number of questions about measures adopted at the national

20 level, and I think I mentioned Switzerland in particular, that had taken

21 measures against leaders of your organisation. Do you recall me asking

22 you those questions?

23 A. Yes, I do.

24 Q. And do you recall suggesting that no such things happened?

25 A. I said it was the beginning.

Page 5840

1 MR. METTRAUX: Could the witness please be shown Rule 65 ter

2 1D774, please. It is ERN 1D00-7009. There is a German version at

3 1D00-7008, which is the original.

4 MS. REGUE: Your Honours. Sorry to interrupt. Sorry to interrupt

5 but the Defence has provided to the Prosecution three different lists of

6 documents to be used during cross-examination, and at least the last four

7 document that have been used have not been provided to the Defence and we

8 have not been informed. And I will kindly request to the Defence, please,

9 to provide us with a final list of all the documents that they are going

10 use in cross-examination. Thanks.

11 MR. METTRAUX: I apologise to my colleague. She seems to be

12 correct about those documents, Your Honour.

13 They were not planned to be use this with this witness. It was in

14 view of the answers of the witness last week that we have added them in

15 the course of the weekend. If it is a problem, Your Honour, I could move

16 on from this particular document and come back to it after the break so

17 that we can give a copy to Ms. Regue if she --

18 JUDGE PARKER: It may be, but the bigger problem is whether there

19 are further documents that have not been the subject of notification.

20 MR. METTRAUX: We believe not too, Your Honour. We will verify

21 that at the break but believe those were the part of the section which

22 related to the answers of Mr. Bushi of last week which led to additional

23 documents being placed. But we will verify that at the break, Your

24 Honour.

25 MS. REGUE: Thanks Your Honour. Just for the record, we have been

Page 5841

1 requesting the Defence from Friday and this morning for additional

2 documents, so they had the time during the weekend to provide us. Thanks.

3 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Mettraux, there seems have been some failure of

4 organisation and courtesy. Well, we can hope that won't --

5 MR. METTRAUX: We can consider it the failure of organisation. It

6 was not a matter of lack of courtesy and we hope not and we will certainly

7 provide the copy of the document to Ms. Regue. And as I mentioned, if

8 Ms. Regue feels that this line of questioning or the absence of documents

9 creates any problem for the Prosecution, we could move on to a different

10 subject and come back to the document after the break. But I believe from

11 the line of questioning, Your Honour, that the issues had been properly

12 identified with the witness in the course of last week. And we believe

13 that as far as the subject matter of the issues are concerned, it was

14 identified and also several other documents which related to this issue

15 had been provided to Ms. Regue. We apologise for the fact that some

16 others which were later added have not been and, as I mention, we will

17 provide a copy of this document during the break.

18 JUDGE PARKER: Ms. Regue, is there a reason that you would favour

19 Mr. Mettraux moving to another document at the moment or do you see that

20 as unnecessary?

21 MS. REGUE: Your Honour, we have no problem that he goes on, but

22 it is not a matter of one document so far, it has been a matter of, as I

23 mentioned, four documents this morning. And also every time there is a

24 new document we are asking about that, so we just want to know the final

25 list.

Page 5842

1 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. Mr. Mettraux tells us you now have the

2 final list; there are no additional documents. Thank you.


4 Q. Mr. Bushi, the document that is in front of you -- I will ask the

5 registry to bring up the English version, please. That would be

6 1D00-7009.

7 Mr. Bushi, while the document is being looked for, this is a press

8 release of sorts from the ministry of justice and police from Switzerland.

9 It is dated the 3rd of July 2001, and it concerns the federal council

10 orders further measures against activists of the Macedonian conflict.

11 Mr. Bushi, the federal council in Switzerland is our government. And the

12 document says this: "On Tuesday, the federal council ordered that

13 measures be implemented against more activists in the Macedonian conflict

14 in Switzerland. Pursuant to Article 184, paragraph 3 of the federal

15 constitution it has banned Ali Ahmeti and Xhavit Haliti from entering

16 Swiss territory without express authorisation until further notice. In

17 addition, it has banned these two persons and Musa Xhaferi from

18 establishing, representing or supporting any organizations which are

19 either directly involved in violent conflict in Macedonia or which

20 indirectly support any of the violent parties.

21 "In case of a breach of these measures, Musa Xhaferi has been

22 threatened with expulsion." And then if go you down two paragraph, it

23 says: "These measures are justified as these three persons occupy leading

24 position in the conflict area and in Switzerland in the KLA and the LPK,

25 popular movement of Kosovo, political extension of the KLA while enjoying

Page 5843

1 regular immigration status in Switzerland."

2 And if you go down further on this page, there's a paragraph

3 starting with the words on 15 June 2001. It says this: "On 15 June 2001,

4 the federal council felt it was necessary to ban the Macedonian national

5 of Albanian ethnicity Fazil Veliu from engaging in any kind of political

6 activity in Switzerland."

7 And just for the record, Fazil Veliu was one of the so-called

8 political leaders of your organisation. Is that correct?

9 A. That's correct.

10 Q. It goes on to say: "The explanation for the decision was that

11 Switzerland does not allow the interior security of other states to be

12 directly or indirectly jeopardized from within its own territory.

13 Furthermore, it continues it should not be permissible for any party to a

14 conflict to be actively engaged in a violent confrontation and be able to

15 return to Switzerland at any point."

16 Mr. Bushi, were you aware of those measures taken against various

17 members of your organisation, including Ali Ahmeti and Fazli Veliu who

18 were on Swiss territory at some stage?

19 A. These measures were effective up until the end of the war and the

20 signing of the Ohrid Agreement. I'll say it again: The same people today

21 or from 2002 onwards, they go to Switzerland and they travel around Europe

22 and the world. You are talking about the wartime and it was normal at the

23 time to be so.

24 Q. Isn't the situation this: At the time, Mr. Bushi, your

25 organisation was desperate to receive some degree of political legitimacy

Page 5844

1 and you tried to do so by pretending to be an army. Do you agree with

2 that?

3 A. It is not correct. When we were fighting we were not a political

4 party.

5 Q. No, at the time you were a terrorist or an extremist organisation,

6 Mr. Bushi. Is that correct?

7 A. That's not correct. We were not terrorists. We were a regular

8 army. Terrorists do not have an emblem, they do not have a uniform, they

9 do not have a rule book. We had all these.

10 Q. And your attempt to get some legitimacy for your movement continue

11 up to this day. Is that correct, Mr. Bushi?

12 A. We have the legitimacy of the people, sir. We have taken part in

13 democratic elections and we have gained the legitimacy of the people.

14 That's of utmost importance.

15 Q. And this need for legitimacy, Mr. Bushi, explain that are you not

16 willing and not ready to admit the role and responsibility of your

17 organisation in the commission of crimes such as Ljubotenski Bacila, or

18 your involvement in the event at Ljuboten. Is that correct?

19 A. That's not true. Not at all.

20 Q. And it also explain your unwillingness to disclose the internal

21 functioning of your organisation. Do you agree with that?

22 A. What internal functioning are you talking about? I don't

23 understand that, sir.

24 Q. Well, what I'm putting to you, Mr. Bushi, is that in your evidence

25 you've made a number of statements about the alleged organising and

Page 5845

1 structure of your organisation which have as a purpose to create an

2 appearance of an army and without the appearance of a legitimate body. Is

3 that correct?

4 A. It is true that it was an army.

5 Q. And one of the ways in which you have sought to give a degree of

6 legitimacy to your organisation and you've done it in evidence again here,

7 was to pretend to be complying with the laws of war. Is that correct?

8 A. It is true that we complied with the laws of war. And the very

9 fact that in Karadak where one soldier, one civilian or two civilians were

10 arrested and subsequently released and not killed is a proof of that.

11 Q. But you must also be aware, Mr. Bushi, that all those who were

12 kidnapped by your organisation and were never released and are now dead.

13 Do you know about them?

14 A. This is not true. I know that there are abducted people, but it

15 is not known who abducted them. There are both Albanians and Macedonians

16 kidnapped and time will tell who has carried out these acts. Metush Ajeti

17 was taken from his house and he was killed in the Avtokomanda police

18 station in Skopje. We have Ruzhdi Veliu and his whereabouts remain

19 unknown; we have Sulthan Mehmeti, we have Hani from Veleshta and many

20 others who were taken by uniformed members of the Macedonian police. As

21 for other civilians of Macedonian ethnicity, we heard about those cases

22 from the media but we really don't know who kidnapped them. If you have

23 facts about the individuals who kidnapped them, then you should point them

24 out to me.

25 Q. Well, you will agree, I hope that your organisation, you must

Page 5846

1 know, Mr. Bushi, that your organisation committed many crimes and

2 atrocities during the crisis in 2001. That you must know.

3 A. This is not true, sir. We did not carry out any crimes. I only

4 ask you to give me as one fact, one single fact, nothing else. Do you

5 know, sir, that when a Macedonian soldier was married, he publicly invited

6 NLA members to his wedding. Do you know this? And this was only due to

7 the fact that we saved his life at that time. We released him.

8 MR. METTRAUX: Can the witness please be shown Exhibit 1D16,

9 please.

10 Q. Mr. Bushi, this is a document received from the Office of the

11 Prosecutor and it originates from the OSCE spillover monitor mission in

12 Skopje. It appears to be an e-mail sent by the OSCE to Ambassador

13 Stoudman at the time and it records a number of criminal activities by the

14 NLA and I would like to go through this document with you.

15 The author of this document, a person called Eileen Simpson who is

16 a human dimension officer for the OSCE indicates in the e-mail that she is

17 working on a supplemental -- on a supplemental report that will address

18 recent developments. The --

19 JUDGE PARKER: Ms. Regue.

20 MS. REGUE: Sorry, Your Honours, to interrupt. But we have not

21 been informed that this document will be used, just for the record.

22 MR. METTRAUX: Ms. Regue seems to be correct again. This is a

23 document that is already in evidence as an exhibit. But if Your Honour

24 wishes us to comply with what we had mistakenly said before and verify if

25 there is any other documents which have been added which the Prosecution

Page 5847

1 hasn't received, as I indicated the subject the matter of these issues was

2 raised last week we believe that this document had been identified But we

3 can certainly go through the list, Your Honour, right now.

4 JUDGE PARKER: I think we will break now to give you an

5 opportunity to do that, Mr. Mettraux, and we will continue at five minutes

6 to 11.00.

7 MR. METTRAUX: Thank you.

8 --- Recess taken at 10.22 a.m.

9 --- On resuming at 11.06 a.m.

10 JUDGE PARKER: Now, Mr. Mettraux, have we got to the bottom of

11 documents.

12 MR. METTRAUX: Yes. And we would wish to apologise to Ms. Regue.

13 She was quite right about the fact that, in fact, the documents that we

14 selected during the weekend by counsel and it is, I should insist, the

15 fault of counsel only mine, were not disclosed before the start of the

16 session this morning. And we apologise to Ms. Regue for any convenience

17 this may have cause. We believe now that all of them have been

18 identified. We went through the list of documents. We believe they have

19 all been identified and provided to Ms. Regue.

20 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.

21 And Ms. Regue, if have you ongoing problems, because of lack of

22 notice, you will let us know.

23 MS. REGUE: Thanks, Your Honour.

24 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Mr. Mettraux.

25 MR. METTRAUX: Thank you, Your Honour.

Page 5848

1 Q. Mr. Bushi, if you could look at the document, 1D16, please, on

2 your screen.

3 As I indicated to you, Mr. Bushi, before the break, this is a

4 document from the OSCE organisation prepared by a person Eileen Simpson

5 and it's been sent to Ambassador Stoudmann, and it refers to a

6 supplemental report which this person is preparing concerning human rights

7 violations by the ethnic Albanian armed group and it lists a number of

8 crimes committed by your organisation. The first type of crimes is

9 illegal detentions of civilians.

10 Mr. Bushi, are aware of any such instances, members of your

11 organisation detaining civilians?

12 A. No, I'm not aware and what you're saying is not true.

13 Q. The second type of crimes listed by the OSCE are cases of forced

14 labour. Are you aware of any cases of your organisation, the NLA, forcing

15 other persons to work, including ethnic Albanians?

16 A. No, I'm not aware of such cases, and I don't think such cases were

17 present.

18 Q. Are you aware of cases of forced conscription of ethnic Albanian

19 into your organisation?

20 A. This is not true. As I said earlier, they joined on a voluntary

21 basis.

22 Q. Are you aware of cases of use of juveniles in military operation

23 or within an area of engagement by your organisation?

24 A. This is not true.

25 Q. Are you aware of cases of physical abuse and intimidation of

Page 5849

1 civilians at NLA check-points, including the beating of women and

2 children -- I'm sorry, the beating of men and the intimidation of men and

3 of women and children. Are you aware of such cases?

4 A. No, I'm not and there were no such cases. These things were

5 committed by Macedonian forces and I illustrated this with the case of a

6 father and a son, who were killed for no reason near the stadium. They

7 had no weapon, no uniforms whatsoever on them.

8 Q. Are you aware of a campaign of ethnic cleansing by your

9 organisation to clean areas of non-ethnic Albanian citizens?

10 A. No, I'm not aware of that and we did not commit that.

11 Q. Are you aware of incidents of looting and wanton destruction of

12 property by members of your organisation?

13 A. We did not do such things. It was the Lions who did such things

14 even in Macedonian areas and I mentioned the example of Manastir or

15 Bitola.

16 Q. Are you aware that your organisation was using mines to blow up

17 military and police convoys? Are you aware of such incidents?

18 A. Yes, I am aware of such cases.

19 Q. And are you aware that during the crisis in 2001, only you, the

20 NLA, were using mines?

21 A. This is it not true. It is not true that only the NLA used mines.

22 Also the Macedonian police and army had mines at their disposal.

23 Q. So if the OSCE were to state that the ethnic Albanian armed group

24 is the only warring party known to have used mines at all, is using

25 anti-tank mines routinely and is suspected of also having placed

Page 5850

1 anti-personnel mines, that would be incorrect, according to you; is that

2 right?

3 A. No, it is not correct.

4 Q. Are you aware of cases where the NLA initiated hostilities in

5 areas known to be inhabited by civilians. Are you aware of such cases?

6 A. No. It's not true.

7 MR. METTRAUX: Could the registry please turn to the next page.

8 Thank you.

9 Q. Mr. Bushi, are you aware that your organisation, the NLA,

10 committed murders of armed -- unarmed civilians. Are you aware of that?

11 A. No, this is not true, sir.

12 Q. Do you recall telling this Chamber that the area around Matejce

13 was within your zone of responsibility, the zone of responsibility of your

14 so-called brigade. Do you remember that?

15 A. Matejce was not in the area of responsibility 114th Brigade but of

16 113rd Brigade. Between Matejce and Vistica there was the boundary between

17 the brigades, while Matejce was the area of responsibility and operations

18 of 113rd Brigade.

19 Q. I'll just read to you, two passages from your own statement,

20 Mr. Bushi. That is Rule 65 ter 1D830 at page 3 of the document. I'll

21 read it out to you.

22 At paragraph 13, 1-3, it says: "The 114th Brigade maintained

23 observation posts in Orlance, Mojance and Grusino. The front line that

24 the 114th Brigade held ran from Nikustak to Vistica up to Matejce. From

25 Matejce up north --

Page 5851

1 A. In Matejce of Manastir, sir.

2 Q. So you will agree that the monastery, the areas of Matejce where

3 the monastery was located was under the control of your brigade. Do you

4 agree with that?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. So you must have been aware of crimes of mistreatment and

7 kidnapping of civilians which happened in that general area. Is that

8 correct?

9 A. Sir, I already told you there were no abductions and mistreatment.

10 I mentioned the case of the soldier of the ARM, and two civilians who were

11 arrested by us and who were our hostages were subsequently released.

12 Q. Are you aware of the fact that your leaders, Mr. Ahmeti and

13 Mr. Gezim Ostreni and others were charged in Macedonia in relation inter

14 alia to crimes committed against civilians within the zone of

15 responsibility, which included Matejce. Are you aware of that fact?

16 A. From which area?

17 Q. From various areas, Mr. Bushi, including the Matejce area. Are

18 you aware of that?

19 A. This is not true. Such an indictment was not issued by the

20 Tribunal.

21 Q. Are you aware of the fact, Mr. Bushi, that those accusations

22 raised against Mr. Ahmeti and Gezim Ostreni which had led to some

23 activities in Macedonia were later taken over by the Office of the

24 Prosecution of this Tribunal. Are you aware of that?

25 A. I am aware, but to my knowledge, the Tribunal did not recognise

Page 5852

1 these facts.

2 MR. METTRAUX: Could the witness please be shown what is Exhibit

3 P391.

4 Your Honour, this is the Prosecution's request for deferral.

5 And I would ask the registry to go to page N000-9883-15.

6 That's an annex to this document. Thank you very much.

7 Q. Mr. Bushi, there is no Albanian translation of this document, so I

8 will have to read it out to you. It's a letter signed by Madam Del Ponte,

9 the Chief Prosecutor of the ICTY. It is sent to Mr. Stavre Dzikov, public

10 prosecutor of the Republic of Macedonia. It is dated the 26th of April of

11 2002. I believe you now have a Macedonian version in front of you.

12 MR. METTRAUX: I'm grateful to the registry.

13 Q. Can you see the document in front of you, Mr. Bushi?

14 A. Yes, I can see it.

15 Q. And if I can ask the registry to turn to the second page of this

16 document, please, of the next page. And to focus, first on the second

17 paragraph, please.

18 Mr. Bushi, there's a sentence or a paragraph --

19 A. I don't have it in the Macedonian version before me.

20 MR. METTRAUX: Could the second page of the document be shown in

21 Macedonian as well, please. Thank you.

22 Q. Mr. Bushi, if you look for a paragraph that in the English starts

23 with the words: "As stated already, the NLA leadership case."

24 Can you find that? I believe it is the second paragraph on your

25 page as well?

Page 5853

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. I will read it out to you. It says this: "As already noted, the

3 'NLA leadership case' is being investigated by my office and this

4 investigation is still ongoing. Evidence linking the NLA leadership to

5 the incidents in Matejce and Lipkovac will be important and I seek your

6 assistance in providing such evidence."

7 Can you see that?

8 A. I can.

9 Q. And if I can ask you to now read not the next paragraph but the

10 one after. It says this: "In providing this opinion, it must be stressed

11 that this conclusion does not suggest that the allegations nor the facts

12 that the crimes were committed are in dispute. It does mean, however,

13 that without more information concerning the crimes and relevant evidence

14 linking the suspects to those crimes, my office is not in a position to

15 assess the case conclusively or to make a final decision at this moment."

16 So you will agree, Mr. Bushi, at least based on this document that

17 as far as the Office of the Prosecution was concerned, they did not have

18 any doubt that crimes had been committed in Matejce. Do you agree with

19 that?

20 A. No, I don't. If they had any doubts that Mr. Ostreni and

21 Mr. Ahmeti committed crimes, they would have been arrested and now in the

22 detention centre in Scheveningen.

23 Q. Isn't that true, Mr. Bushi also that the reason why you claimed in

24 your statement and repeated here in evidence that your organisation was

25 respecting religious and culture site was for the same reason, to give an

Page 5854

1 appearance of legitimacy to your organisation. Is that correct?

2 A. It is true that we respected these facilities and not for the

3 purpose of appearance of legitimacy but this was in line with the rules of

4 the NLA and the order from the General Staff. That is not to touch any

5 religious facilities.

6 Q. Isn't the truth that you paid no attention any such documents and

7 that you in fact used and targeted religious and cultural monuments, be

8 they Orthodox or Muslim. Do you agree with that?

9 A. This is not true. We did not aim at any religious building. This

10 is what they did. We can mention here the religious buildings in Haracin,

11 in Matejce, in Nagustak which were targets of the Macedonian police and

12 army.

13 Q. But you will recall the evidence or the information provided by

14 some members of your brigade that you were the one who ordered that your

15 organisations or members thereof start shelling the Orthodox church in the

16 village or near the village of Ljuboten. Do you recall that? Do you

17 recall people making such claims?

18 A. I recall what they said but I never issued such an order. If I

19 issued an order to that effect, it would have been carried out.

20 Q. Is it also the case, Mr. Bushi, that within your area of

21 responsibility, so-called, there were a number of mosques that you used as

22 military positions. Do you agree with that?

23 A. This is not true.

24 MR. METTRAUX: Can the witness please be shown what is Rule 65 ter

25 1D807, please. Thank you.

Page 5855

1 Q. Mr. Bushi, the document that is in front of you is a so-called

2 daily bulletin on non-compliance with the cease-fire and it covers the

3 period from 1800 hours on the 14th of July of 2001 to 0600 hours on the

4 15th of July of 2001, and the document was provided to us by the Office of

5 the Prosecutor and it comes, as you can see, from the bottom left-hand

6 corner of the document from the OSCE archives in Skopje.

7 MR. METTRAUX: And I will ask the registry to turn to the second

8 page of that document. That would be 1D00-7140.

9 Q. In this document, Mr. Bushi, there's a number of entries which

10 concern observation made by various organisations or entities and it is

11 kept in a chronological order. And I would like to read to you the first

12 incident or the first matter recorded in this document.

13 It is recorded at 1830 on the 14th of July of 2001. And the

14 submitting authority is the army, -- that's the army of the Republic of

15 Macedonia and it records the following: "Our positions were watched at

16 2015 hours on 13 July 2001 from the village of Ropalce at 07.40 at 14 July

17 2001 from the village Matejce and at 1335 hours from the mosque in the

18 village Nikustak." And just stopping there for a moment, Mr. Bushi,

19 Nikustak was the village in which you had the headquarters of your

20 brigade. Is that correct?

21 A. I'm not aware of a church in Nikustak. There was a mosque there

22 but not a church.

23 Q. Yes, Mr. Bushi, it should have said --

24 A. There was mosque there.

25 Q. That's correct, Mr. Bushi. The translation must have misled you.

Page 5856

1 The text said: "From the mosque in the village of Nikustak." And I'll

2 ask to you look at the third annotation in this document which is again

3 coming at 1830 on the 14th of July 2001. It says this: "At 1440 hours on

4 14 July of 2001, several persons were registered working on sandbag

5 trenches by the mosque in the village Nikustak."

6 Mr. Bushi, isn't that correct, that you installed reinforced

7 position just next to the mosque in the village of Nikustak?

8 A. Mosque. This is not correct. We had our front line from Nikustak

9 in the direction of Vistice, Matejce and Likovc. And this front line had

10 nothing to do with the mosques.

11 Q. So, Mr. Bushi, if I understand you properly, your evidence is that

12 this information about sandbag trenches by the mosque in the village of

13 Nikustak is wrong or false. Is that correct?

14 A. I cannot say whether there were nearby but there were none in the

15 mosque. The front line was, as I earlier mentioned. This information

16 that you're reading comes from the Macedonian forces. And as I said

17 earlier, all the information coming out from the period from 14th February

18 to 26th of September have no truth in our opinion.

19 Q. Isn't that correct that you reserved your worst treatment and by

20 your, I mean your brigade, your worst treatment for orthodox properties

21 and orthodox religious buildings. Do you agree with that?

22 A. This is not true. We had the monastery in Matejce and we did not

23 cause any damage to it or blow it up.

24 Q. Isn't it correct that after the cease-fire, a cease-fire had been

25 reached with the Macedonian authorities, your brigade conducted

Page 5857

1 destruction in and around the village of Matejce. Do you recall that?

2 A. Which period of time are you referring to, sir, and which

3 cease-fire? Of what date?

4 Q. This would be the early days of the month of July of 2001,

5 Mr. Bushi.

6 A. It's not true.

7 MR. METTRAUX: Could the witness please be shown Rule 65 ter

8 1D817. It has an ERN 1D00-7179.

9 Q. Mr. Bushi, before I show you the document, is it your evidence

10 that you are aware of members of your brigade burning houses and damaging

11 churches at any other time during that period, up to the signing of the

12 Ohrid Framework Agreement?

13 A. Nothing of the kind happened.

14 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, this document is one of the document

15 which was provided by the source which was indicated during the private

16 hearing at the beginning of the evidence of this witness. And I will ask

17 the registry to turn to the third page of that document. It is 1D00-7181.

18 Mr. Bushi, I will read the passage to you from this document which

19 comes from -- originated in an embassy. It says this: "As of 1900 hour,

20 Embassy DAO confirmed that the cease-fire is holding, but there are six

21 major fires burning in the southern (ethnic Macedonian) part of Matejce.

22 And that the orthodox church and what locals report to be a flour mill is

23 burning."

24 JUDGE PARKER: Mill, flour mill.

25 MR. METTRAUX: I'm grateful, Your Honour.

Page 5858

1 Q. "A flour mill is burning. This DAO observations appear to confirm

2 local reports that the NLA is burning the Macedonian part of Matejce as

3 they depart. The ancient monastery outside of Matejce, however, is not on

4 fire."

5 Mr. Bushi, were you aware of any members or any member of your

6 so-called brigade being involved in burning ethnic Macedonian property and

7 damaging the orthodox church in Matejce?

8 A. With full responsibility I say that no member of the brigades 114

9 and 113 did such things. You should know that that part of the area,

10 Vistica-Matejce was part of the front line and that there was firing on

11 both sides, from our side and from the army's -- Macedonian army's side.

12 Q. So it's your evidence, Mr. Bushi, that the information contained

13 in this document is incorrect. Is that right?

14 A. There may have been fire in houses because of the firing, but not

15 that any individuals set fire to the houses deliberately.

16 Q. Is that correct, Mr. Bushi, also that upon your withdrawal or the

17 departure of members of your brigade, you and your colleagues destroyed

18 the old Macedonian orthodox monastery outside of Matejce. Is that what

19 happened?

20 A. This did not happen. We had control over the monastery. If we

21 wanted to do that, we would have done it. Nobody prevented us from doing

22 that, but we didn't do it.

23 Q. Are you aware that of the fact that several of your colleagues,

24 several of the people who were members of your organisation were charged

25 with serious criminal offence for their activities in the crisis in 2001,

Page 5859

1 and that those charges include, in particular, the damage done to the

2 monastery in Matejce. Are you aware of that?

3 A. I know that, but it depends on who is laying the charges and who

4 is putting these accusations.

5 Q. You are aware, Mr. Bushi, that among those accused of being

6 responsible for these crimes are Mr. Veliu, Mr. Ahmeti, Mr. Ostreni, and

7 your so-called chief of morale, Xhavit Hasani. Are you aware of that?

8 A. May have been accused, but there is no truth in what are you

9 saying, sir.

10 Q. And how do you suggest, Mr. Bushi, this 14th-century monastery

11 came to be destroyed. What's your evidence on this?

12 A. Are you talking about the monastery in Matejce?

13 Q. Yes. The Sveta Bogorodica monastery, a 14th-century monastery in

14 the village of Matejce.

15 A. It was probably done by the shelling on the part of police force,

16 on the other side. They never stopped shelling the area which was

17 controlled by us and that carried on 24 hours, non-stop and they used

18 tanks and artillery to do that.

19 Q. And is that your evidence that the same explanation explained that

20 the old monastery in Lesok was also blown up as the NLA was withdrawing.

21 Is that the same things that happened there?

22 A. I don't know. I don't know about that.

23 Q. Is that --

24 A. -- know anything about the Lesok monastery. But I'm certain that

25 nothing of the kind was carried out by the forces of the KLA -- the NLA,

Page 5860

1 sorry.

2 Q. Is that correct, Mr. Bushi, that another way in which you

3 pretended to be an army was to pretend that you were wearing uniforms with

4 badges and ranks at -- all the time. Is that correct?

5 A. It's accurate that we were a regular army, having all the assets

6 of an army, the emblems, the uniforms, the ranks and so on.

7 Q. But staying for a minute with the issue of the uniform, Mr. Bushi,

8 is that correct that your organisation, the NLA, would often operate

9 without any uniform. Do you agree with that? Including members of your

10 brigade.

11 A. That's not true. That's not correct.

12 MR. METTRAUX: Could the witness please be shown Rule 65 ter

13 1D823, please. It is ERN 1D00-7210.

14 Q. Mr. Bushi, this is again a document in English only,

15 unfortunately. This is a report, spot report on armed activity in the

16 Tanusevci area. It is dated the 6th of March 2001, and the document comes

17 from the OSCE, once again.

18 MR. METTRAUX: And I will ask the registry to turn to the next

19 page, please.

20 Q. I'll ask to you focus, Mr. Bushi, if you can see it on the

21 paragraph starting with the paragraph letter B, the village of Tanusevci.

22 Can you see that? I'll read it out to you. It says this: "The

23 village of Tanusevci has been the scene of a withdrawal northwards of up

24 to 100 of the ethnic Albanian armed group EAAG which had been occupying

25 the area since about the 21st February. The ethnic Albanian armed group

Page 5861

1 members were observed to have moved into the village of Debelde where they

2 appeared to be dressed in normal civilian clothing having abandoned both

3 military style uniforms and weapons."

4 Mr. Bushi, do you agree that this document would suggest, at least

5 as far as your colleagues from the Tanusevci area are concerned, they

6 would, when convenient, shed their uniforms. Do you agree with that?

7 A. I don't agree with that. In Debelde, Debelde is part of Kosova

8 and you couldn't get into that area in uniform.

9 Q. So you will agree, Mr. Bushi, then that, when convenient, the

10 members of your organisation would simply take out their uniforms. Is

11 that correct?

12 A. That's not correct.

13 MR. METTRAUX: Could the witness please be shown Rule 65 ter

14 1D829, please.

15 Q. Mr. Bushi, this is again the same collection of documents that

16 I've shown you on a couple of occasion last week. Those are information

17 provided to the Office of the Prosecutor by a particular state.

18 MR. METTRAUX: And I would ask the registry to go to page 21 of

19 this document. That would be 1D00-7291. If we could have the English

20 version. This would be starting at 1D00 -- yes, I'm grateful. Thank you.

21 That would be the next page.

22 Q. This is a report, Mr. Bushi, that is dated the 16 of August of

23 2001.

24 And it talks about a particular road known as the Fox route which

25 is in and around the area of Tetovo.

Page 5862

1 And if the registry could move to the next page, please?

2 Q. In this report, Mr. Bushi, the authorities say this: "In Albanian

3 dominated villages north of Fox route we still observed some NLA fighters

4 who, until recently wore their uniforms but were now in civilian

5 clothes.'?

6 Would you agree that it also happened that NLA members, not only

7 in Tanusevci but also in Tetovo and other places were taking off their

8 uniforms when they saw fit. Do you agree with that?

9 A. I don't agree with that. And that was not the case.

10 Q. Sir, do you agree or can you recall when your colleague and member

11 of your brigade, the nickname Teli was killed? Do you remember the date

12 when he was killed?

13 A. I remember that. On the 7th of August, as far as I remember.

14 Q. And do you recall that he was killed in the centre of the capital,

15 Skopje, in the Gazi Baba neighbourhood. Is that correct?

16 A. Yes, I remember that.

17 Q. Are you suggesting, Mr. Bushi, that your colleague Mr. Teli who

18 went to the city to conduct terrorist activities was wearing his uniform

19 at the time?

20 A. It wasn't a terrorist activity. It was an observation unit, and I

21 don't know how he was killed, but they were carrying weapons and uniforms.

22 Q. Are you suggesting that he would walk in the middle of Skopje

23 wearing his NLA uniform, Mr. Bushi, carrying weapons?

24 A. I didn't say that he was walking in the middle of Skopje. But

25 when he left the village, he had the uniform and he had the weapons.

Page 5863

1 Q. And do you think that he was still wearing this uniform and

2 carrying his weapon when he arrived in the area of Gazi Baba?

3 A. Normal that the Skopje area was part of our activity and he

4 couldn't have walked in uniform.

5 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction, it was not part of our

6 activity.


8 Q. So, Mr. Bushi, if Skopje is not part of your activities, what was

9 Mr. Teli doing in town?

10 A. He was part of a reconnaissance team.

11 Q. Thank you. Isn't that correct that you gave yourself names,

12 titles, and ranks, but in practice, they meant little or nothing. Do you

13 agree with that?

14 A. I don't agree that we gave ourselves ranks, but that was as part

15 of a military set-up, according to the rule book we had.

16 Q. Is that correct, Mr. Bushi, that you were a member of the JNA, the

17 Yugoslav Army, for five years from 1987 to 1992. Is that correct?

18 A. Yes, that's accurate.

19 Q. And in those five years, you reached the rank of Sergeant. Is

20 that correct?

21 A. No. It was senior high-ranking military man.

22 Q. And can you remember the title that you had in the JNA, your rank?

23 A. B sergeant [as interpreted].

24 Q. Is that correct that you then spent the next ten years -- nine or

25 ten years, from 1992 to 2001 in the Macedonian army?

Page 5864

1 A. True.

2 Q. Can you say what rank you reached during these nine years in the

3 Macedonian army?

4 A. Senior Sergeant first class.

5 Q. And by comparison, is it correct that in the so-called NLA, you

6 were at once given the rank of Colonel by Gezim Ostreni. Is that correct?

7 A. And in line with the military structure of our army, I -- I

8 deserved to have the title of a brigade commander.

9 Q. What about your chief -- so-called chief of operations

10 Mr. Ramadan Limaj. What was his rank at the time?

11 A. It was lieutenant-colonel, in line with the military structure.

12 Q. And what military experience did Mr. Limaj have prior to the

13 crisis?

14 A. Before the crisis he was involved in the Kosovo conflict and he

15 had graduated from an academy. I don't know which one.

16 Q. Do you know what his profession was before the crisis?

17 A. I don't know. The ranks in the NLA were given in line with the

18 rule book of the NLA. Whoever came, all the titles, the ranks, the

19 operational chiefs or others, they were granted these ranks in line with

20 the operational structure of the NLA.

21 Q. And you would agree that the military experience or lack thereof

22 would be not be relevant to the distribution of those names and titles.

23 Do you agree with that?

24 A. I don't agree with you, because all those who were in the

25 operational staff of the 114th Brigade they had experience, relevant

Page 5865

1 experience.

2 Q. What about --

3 A. The war in Presevo, Kosovo. And from their military background.

4 Q. What about your so-called officer for morale, Mr. Xhavit Hasani.

5 What was his rank in your organisation?

6 A. As far as I remember, he was captain of first class. Major.

7 Q. And do you recall what Mr. Hasani's occupation was before the war?

8 A. Before the war? Before the war, he worked in forestry. As far as

9 I remember.

10 Q. And do you --

11 A. I don't know what he did there. But he was involved in forestry.

12 Q. And do you know now where Mr. Xhavit Hasani is, your chief of

13 morale?

14 A. He is in the prison of Dubrave.

15 Q. He is in the prison in Kosovo for murder and other terrorist

16 activities. Is that correct?

17 A. That's not accurate. He has been charged on the basis of

18 allegations coming from Macedonia.

19 Q. The charges come from Macedonia because the crimes were committed

20 in Macedonia but he hasn't just been charged; he has been convicted and

21 sentenced to 13 years in prison. Is that correct?

22 A. That's not accurate, sir. There are facts that you may be able to

23 find in Kosovo and Macedonia. He was charged by Macedonia for actions,

24 acts committed in Macedonia.

25 Q. He is in prison in Kosovo. Is that correct?

Page 5866

1 A. That's correct.

2 Q. Is it correct also that -- well, you will recall being shown a

3 number of badges or insignias by my colleague which was said to relate to

4 the NLA. Do you recall that?

5 A. Yes. Ranks.

6 Q. And you will agree that those two didn't mean much. They were

7 just for the show. Is that correct?

8 A. That's not true. It wasn't for a show, but it was a reality.

9 Q. Is that --

10 A. It was a reality.

11 Q. Is that correct, Mr. Bushi, that, for instance, you, as a

12 so-called colonel of the NLA, never wore those patches on your uniform.

13 Is that correct?

14 A. Sometimes I carried them; sometimes, I didn't; but most of the

15 time I didn't.

16 MR. METTRAUX: Can the witness please be shown what is 1D905.

17 This is ERN 1D00-7768.

18 Q. Mr. Bushi, this is the proofing notes that the Prosecution gave to

19 us a few days ago. I will actually read it to you, I don't know it is

20 necessary, but ...

21 The Prosecutor asked you a number of questions about uniforms and

22 ranks. And what you told the Prosecution was: "My rank was colonel

23 general, but I never wore the patch indicating my rank."

24 Do you recall saying that?

25 A. I remember that, and as I said, most of the time I didn't wear

Page 5867

1 that, and sometimes I did.

2 MR. METTRAUX: Page 5 for the registry, it is page 1D00-7772.

3 Thank you.

4 Q. But when you were asked by the Prosecution during your proofing

5 session you told them: "My rank was colonel general but I never wore the

6 patch indicating my rank."

7 Is that correct? That's what you told them then.

8 A. Sometimes, as I said, I did wear it.

9 Q. So the -- your evidence is that the Prosecution misunderstood what

10 you had told them. Is that correct?

11 A. Maybe there was some misunderstanding.

12 Q. Is that correct also --

13 A. I said it earlier, that most of the time I did not carry the rank.

14 Q. Do you agree, sir, that your so-called brigade was in fact just a

15 loose group of individuals dressed up, for the most part, as fighters. Do

16 you agree with that?

17 A. That's not correct.

18 Q. Is that correct that it took you only between two or three days to

19 set up or to form the 114th Brigade. Is that correct?

20 A. That that's not correct. It was two to three days to set up the

21 staff, but mobilisation continued.

22 Q. Well, since the document is on the screen. It is again your

23 proofing notes, Mr. Bushi, and I will ask to you look a bit further down

24 the dots. There's a comment attributed to you by the Office of the

25 Prosecutor where it says: "It took two, three days to form the 114th

Page 5868

1 Brigade."

2 Are you suggesting again that the --

3 A. I'm talking about the brigade staff.

4 Q. So you're suggesting again that the person who took down your

5 statement misunderstood what you said. Is that correct?

6 A. Maybe, yes.

7 Q. Is that correct that, Mr. Bushi, your brigade never looked

8 anything like the regulations which had been prepared, drafted within your

9 organisations?

10 A. That's not correct.

11 Q. Isn't it correct, Mr. Bushi, that those regulation just like many

12 of the other things you did or pretended to do at the time, were just

13 intended to give the appearance of legitimacy to your organisation and to

14 make it look like a valid military organisation. Isn't that correct?

15 A. It is not correct that we did that for that aim. The NLA was a

16 regular army and we had to respect all the rules.

17 Q. Well, the rules mention, among other things, that the brigade

18 should have a lengthy part concerning your legal advisor and among other

19 thing your press information centre. I suppose you will recall that when

20 I asked about this, you told me that you had no legal advisor at the time

21 and that there was no press information centre in your brigade. Do you

22 recall that?

23 A. I remember that the information centre was shared between the 114

24 and 113 brigade.

25 Q. Do you recall, Mr. Bushi, that when I asked you whether your

Page 5869

1 brigade had such an organ you told me, no, that is not the case. That's

2 page 5646. Do you recall?

3 A. We did not have an information centre in our brigade but it was

4 shared by the two brigades in the Karadak region. But it was both the

5 brigades, the 113rd and the 114th which shared the information centre.

6 Q. Isn't that correct that, to make it look like the NLA was more

7 serious and a bigger organisation than it was, you also invented

8 non-existent brigades. Isn't that correct?

9 A. That is not correct, what you are saying.

10 Q. Is that correct, for instance, that the so-called 111 Brigade

11 which appears on some of the NLA documents, in fact was never activated,

12 it had no barracks and no HQ. Is that correct?

13 A. That is not accurate. It had everything, the soldiers and the

14 barracks and the HQ.

15 Q. And can you tell the Chamber, perhaps, where that barracks and

16 this HQ were based?

17 A. The General Staff of the 114th Brigade was in Lustak, whereas of

18 the 1st Battalion were -- was in Nagustak. The 2nd Battalion was in the

19 monastery in Matejce.

20 Q. Isn't that correct that last week, Mr. Bushi, you indicated that

21 although this brigade was functional it was, in fact, never activated. Do

22 you recall saying that?

23 A. What I said referred to 111st brigade which was in a state of

24 readiness, whereas the 114th Brigade, it existed.

25 Q. I'm sorry, in that case we have been misunderstanding each other.

Page 5870

1 I was talking of the 111 brigade. So do you agree that this brigade was

2 never activated. Do you agree with that?

3 A. Yes, I do.

4 Q. Is that also the case of the 117?

5 A. Yes. But to my knowledge, the 117th Brigade did not exist.

6 Q. Mr. Bushi, is that correct that another way in which you

7 exaggerated the danger posed by your organisation was by inflating the

8 numbers of alleged members of your brigade. Do you agree with that?

9 A. It's not that we inflated the number artificially, but we did this

10 because of the needs.

11 Q. Isn't that correct that you said that you had 1.000 members within

12 your so-called brigade but that in fact, you had between 200 and 250 men.

13 Is that correct?

14 A. No, that's not correct.

15 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, for the transcript I intended to say

16 between 200 and 250. It is at page 59, line 22.

17 You remember, Mr. Bushi, being shown some documents, tables which

18 recorded, they were model regulations which recorded membership in two

19 particular brigades. Do you recall being shown this document?

20 A. Yes, I do recall it.

21 Q. And you indicated that you kept similar types of records for your

22 brigade. Do you recall saying that?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Have you been able to give copies of those records to the Office

25 of the Prosecutor, Mr. Bushi?

Page 5871

1 A. No. I handed over the archives of my brigade to the General Staff

2 of the NLA at that time.

3 Q. And would you know where those archives are at present, Mr. Bushi?

4 A. This is something that the General Gezim Ostreni can tell you.

5 MR. METTRAUX: Could the witness please be shown what is

6 Prosecution Exhibit P321, please.

7 Q. Mr. Bushi, I'd like to show you a document. It is entitled

8 Macedonia briefing pack. And you will recall it was shown to you during

9 proofing session. Do you recognise the document?

10 A. I don't remember it.

11 MR. METTRAUX: Well, I'll ask the registry to turn to page

12 R0376858 in the English. And the Macedonian would be R3037-6858-MF.

13 Q. Mr. Bushi, do you remember being shown this particular table

14 during your meeting with the Office of the Prosecution?

15 A. Yes, I remember it a little.

16 Q. And do you recall being asked whether these charts or documents

17 accurately reflected the structure of your organisation at the time. Do

18 you recall being asked those questions?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And do you recall making a number of comments, pointing to

21 inaccuracies in this and other documents. Do you recall that?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And one of the comments you made at the time was that the 111 had

24 never been activated and that the 117 never came in existence. Is that

25 correct?

Page 5872

1 A. Yes.

2 MR. METTRAUX: Could the registry please turn to the next page

3 after that document.

4 Q. Mr. Bushi, do you recall being shown this document as well? This

5 is the next page of this same document and again being asked certain

6 questions about the accuracy or otherwise of this document. Do you recall

7 that?

8 A. I do recall, yes.

9 Q. And do you recall what corrections, so to say, you made to that

10 particular scheme?

11 A. Yes, I do.

12 Q. Could you tell this Chamber, please, Mr. Bushi.

13 A. I said as far as Melam Fazliu [phoen] is concerned, he was not

14 there. Emrual Shini [phoen], Emrush Xhemali and Dreni, who is said here

15 to be an assistant, he was not an assistant, he was a person responsible

16 for technical issues and informations.

17 As for Ilir, last name unknown, it should be Nazmi Beqir, aka,

18 Iliri. As for the remaining two, Musa Xhaferi --

19 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter didn't get the second name.

20 A. -- they were there, yes.


22 Q. Sorry, Mr. Bushi. You've mentioned two individuals who were in

23 the NLA political leadership and I believe the interpreter picked up

24 Musa Xhaferi but not the other person. Could you repeat the name of that

25 person, please?

Page 5873

1 A. Isni Shaqiri and Musa Xhaferi.

2 Q. And is it also correct that you pointed out to the Office of the

3 Prosecutor that the other three individuals at the bottom of this page,

4 Milajm Fazu, Emrala Uksini, and Emrush Xhemali were not within the NLA

5 political leadership as indicated in this document. Is that correct?

6 A. Yes, that's correct, I said that.

7 MR. METTRAUX: Could the registry please turn to the next page of

8 this document, both in English and in Macedonian.

9 Q. Mr. Bushi, do you remember being shown this document and being

10 asked again to make some comments about the structure presented here. Do

11 you recall?

12 A. Yes, I recall.

13 Q. And could you indicate what corrections you suggested should be

14 made to that document.

15 A. The following corrections. I said that I don't know Avni Dehari

16 and Baskim Ramadani. Here where it says advisor Avni Dehari, I said that

17 it could be Fatmir Dehari, not Avni Dehari. As for Isa Demiri [phoen], I

18 said yes, he was; Dreni, yes; Nazmi Baqiri, yes; as well as, Shefet, aka

19 Kravata.

20 MR. METTRAUX: Could the registry turn to the next page, please.

21 Q. Do you recall being shown this document as well, Mr. Bushi?

22 A. Yes, I do.

23 Q. And do you recall making a number of corrections or ...

24 A. Yes. I'm not sure if you can enlarge it, please.

25 Now it's fine.

Page 5874

1 Q. Could you indicate what's wrong with this diagram.

2 A. Yes. The 113rd Brigade commander was not Ibrahim but Sami Uksini,

3 aka Sokoli. The commander of 112nd Brigade used to be Hasbi Lika, not

4 Kagurrela, and in the meantime when Hasbi Lika was transferred to the

5 General Staff, he was replaced by Isa Lika, aka Iliri.

6 Xhavit Hasani was not in the General Staff of the NLA but was a

7 member of the staff of the 114th Brigade, he was an officer of morale and

8 information. And here Ibrahim Dehari again appears, I said I did not hear

9 of this person; it could be Fatmir Dehari. And another correction was

10 that before Sami Uksini, Sokoli, it was Fadilja Nemani, aka Tigri, who was

11 killed in Vaksince, and later on he was replaced by Sami.

12 Then Refez Halili is stated here; his last name should be Haliti.

13 And then another correction, it says Hasan, it should be Nazim. As for

14 Tala Xhaferi, it's fine. Then another Zaki is mentioned here. I don't

15 know about this person. And as I said, about the 111st brigade, it was in

16 a state of readiness; and the 117, it did not exist. These were the

17 corrections that I made.

18 Q. Thank you for that, Mr. Bushi. You would agree that this

19 particular chart and the others that I have shown you earlier contained

20 quite a number of mistakes and inaccuracies. Do you agree with that?

21 A. I agree.

22 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, for the record this document was

23 presented and apparently prepared in part, you will recall by the witness

24 Mr. Hutch, and the discussion as to the reliability of this document or

25 otherwise was discussed on the 28th of June of 2007, at page 2809, 2835,

Page 5875

1 and the objection of the Defence was at 2831.

2 Q. Isn't that correct, Mr. Bushi, that another way in which your

3 organisation sought to have or to obtain some degree of legitimacy was by

4 issuing a number of so-called communiques coming from Mr. Ahmeti or other

5 members of this organisation. Do you agree with that?

6 A. That's not correct. The communiques were issued by Mr. Ahmeti for

7 one reason: To give a fair picture and to avoid any manipulation.

8 Q. Do you believe -- do you remember, Mr. Bushi, expressing the view

9 that you believed that Mr. Boskoski had been supporting or requesting that

10 the Macedonian state should declare a state of war in Macedonia. Do you

11 recall saying that?

12 A. Yes, I do.

13 Q. And is that correct that you based those -- this belief on media

14 reports. Is that correct?

15 A. Yes, based on media information and use.

16 Q. And you were not privy to any discussion within the Macedonian

17 government about this matter. Is that correct?

18 A. I already told you, based on the information we had.

19 Q. Do you recall, Mr. Bushi, being shown the book that was written by

20 Mr. Boskoski. Do you recall being shown this book by my colleague?

21 A. Yes, I do.

22 MR. METTRAUX: Could the witness be shown what is Exhibit P402.

23 Q. Mr. Bushi, I'm again going to show you the same section of the

24 book as was shown you to, a different passage. It is at page 31 of the

25 book. This would be N000-N607-ET-31.

Page 5876

1 Mr. Bushi, the passage which I would wish to read to you is at the

2 top of the page. It starts with the word: "After the proposals."

3 I will read it out to you. It says this: "After the proposals by

4 Prime Minister Ljupco Georgievski, presented to the public in a few

5 occasions for rapid resolve of the crisis in Macedonia by declaring a

6 state of war, which was opposed by the community of ethnic Albanians in

7 our country, because the leaders were under pressure of the powerful

8 Albanian lobby abroad, which was actually drawing the strings for

9 destroying the sovereign Macedonian state. The proposal for declaring

10 state of war was also rejected by the president of the state

11 Boris Trajkovski who was to sign the possible decision on it.

12 Sir, based on the passage that I've read to you, do you agree that

13 the suggestion or proposal that had been made to declare a state of war in

14 the country was made, in fact, by the then prime minister Mr.

15 Ljupco Georgievski and that it was opposed by the then President

16 Trajkovski who was the authority permitted to make such a declaration.

17 Do you agree that's what the book suggests?

18 A. This is what the book says, but that's not the case.

19 Q. And do you know, Mr. Bushi, under Macedonian law what authority is

20 competent to declare a state of war? Are you aware of that?

21 A. The president of the state.

22 Q. And do you know what legal, practical and constitutional

23 consequences this would have had in Macedonia or is it something that is

24 beyond your domain of knowledge?

25 A. I have a certain knowledge.

Page 5877

1 Q. And is that correct that this would have allowed the government to

2 rule, among other things, by decree. Is that correct?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. But it never happened. Is that correct?

5 A. Yes, it never happened.

6 Q. Mr. Bushi, I'd like to turn to something slightly different,

7 another part of your evidence which you've given to the Office of the

8 Prosecutor and that concerns the incident in Ljubotenski Bacila. Do you

9 recall being asked a number of questions by the Prosecution in relation to

10 this?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And do you recall telling the Prosecution in response to a

13 question that you had nothing to do with the incident and that your

14 brigade could not have been involved without your knowledge. Do you

15 remember saying that?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And do you recall suggesting to the Office of the Prosecutor that

18 it was not the NLA that had conducted this attack but that in fact it had

19 been Mr. Boskoski who had organised the whole thing. Do you remember

20 saying that?

21 A. Yes, I remember.

22 Q. Well, I'm putting it to you, Mr. Bushi, that, in fact, the

23 incident at Ljubotenski Bacila was organised by members of your so-called

24 brigade, in particular, members of the so-called Teli unit. Do you agree

25 with that?

Page 5878

1 A. No, I don't agree with that.

2 Q. And I'm also putting it to you that you, Mr. Bushi, was the one

3 who ordered the members of your brigade to go to Ljubotenski Bacila and

4 blow up the army convoy. Do you agree with that?

5 A. This is not true. I didn't issue any order of that kind.

6 Q. And I'm also putting it to you that once the operation carried out

7 by the members of your unit, several of them withdrew towards and into the

8 village of Ljuboten. Do you agree with that?

9 A. No, I don't.

10 MR. METTRAUX: Could the witness please be shown Rule 65 ter

11 1D811, please. It is 1D00-7162 for the English and 7160 for the

12 Macedonian. Thank you.

13 Q. Sir, I'd like to go through this document with you. It's a report

14 about terrorist attack. It's dated the 10th of August of 2001 and it

15 comes from the headquarters of the 3rd Guardist Batallion which is part of

16 the Macedonian army. And it says the following about this incident: "On

17 10 August 2001 at about 8.00, military vehicle" and then there is the

18 number and so on. "When returning after a shift from the position Zdravec

19 hit an explosive device with rear right tire. The power of the explosion

20 turned the vehicle over and it landed on the roof together with the

21 soldiers it carried. As the vehicle turned over, terrorists who were in

22 ambush on the north-eastern side in the cottages Bacila, belonging to the

23 Ljuboten residents, Vedri, Kadri, and Murati Muharem opened fire from

24 infantry weapons."

25 Then it goes on: "The units that was located at the positions

Page 5879

1 Zdravec returned fire at the terrorists to ensure access and assistance

2 for the injured. At the same time, in coordination with the battalion HQ

3 120-millimetre mortars and 2.76-millimetre cannons opened fire. After

4 that, the terrorists stopped actions, fire, and withdrew in the direction

5 of Saint Kamen. While a small group, three or four men, withdrew in the

6 direction of Ljuboten. The same group was spotted by our position our

7 posts while entering into one of the two abandoned cottages, Bacila, and

8 B-1 cannons fired 14 rounds at them. One terrorist was seen running above

9 the cottage, Bacilo, in the direction of Kuljm, and the cottage Bacilo was

10 destroyed."

11 And then if you go further down that document, it says that:

12 "During fighting our unit killed four terrorists." And it says that:

13 "Two were killed at the entrance to the village, one was killed above a

14 water source above the village of Ljuboten. He had a horse with saddle

15 packs. The fourth terrorist with a packed mule was killed in the area of

16 the forest above the road that leads to Ljuboten."

17 Mr. Bushi, do you agree that the information contained in this

18 document is true and accurate?

19 A. It is not accurate and has nothing to do with the reality. And I

20 would kindly ask you to give me the names of what you called terrorists of

21 those four that were killed, if they were killed indeed.

22 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, we also refer the Chamber to the

23 evidence of Mr. Mario Jurisic, Mr. Despodov and the OSCE report of 10

24 August 2001, Exhibit 1D13, 1-3 and 1D86.

25 Mr. Bushi, do you know a person called or known as Gasda Ardi.

Page 5880

1 A. Yes. He lives nearby.

2 Q. You mean nearby Ljuboten. Is that correct?

3 A. No, nearby by my residence where I live. He lives in Skopje, but

4 by origin he is from Ljuboten.

5 Q. And his real name is Nexhmedin Fazliu, aka Nexha. Is that

6 correct?

7 A. Nexhmedin Fazliu, Nexha.

8 Q. And you have indicated that is he a neighbour of yours in Skopje

9 and he also has shepherd houses above Ljuboten. Is that correct?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And those in your language and in the Macedonian language as known

12 as -- are known as Bacino -- Basinec. Is that correct?

13 A. Basinec, yes.

14 Q. Is that correct that the men which you had sent to carry out the

15 operation in Ljubotenski Bacila had stayed in one of these Basinec above

16 the village of Ljuboten. Do you agree with that?

17 A. No, I don't, and Nexhmedin was never a member of the NLA. He had

18 nothing to do with the NLA.

19 Q. Mr. Bushi, I'm not suggesting that Mr. Fazliu is or is not a

20 member of the NLA. Are aware of the fact that the persons which you had

21 sent to Ljubotenski Bacila to carry out the attack had stayed in one of

22 the Basinec above the village of Ljuboten?

23 A. That is not true.

24 MR. METTRAUX: Could the witness please be shown Exhibit 1D161,

25 please. It is 1D00-5405. Thank you. And 5403 for the Macedonian.

Page 5881

1 Q. Mr. Bushi, this is a document or an information collected by the

2 state security and counterintelligence service, UBK or DBK of the Ministry

3 of Interior of the Republic of Macedonia and it is dated the 15th of

4 August of 2001. And there is a passage which I would like to read to you

5 and it starts in the middle of the page and it starts with, "the source."

6 This will also be the 2nd paragraph in the Macedonian version, Mr.

7 Bushi, and it says the following: "The source said that Albanian

8 terrorists, a group of 25 strong, took care to set the mine on the road.

9 Some of them were from Kosovo, and some from Ljuboten village. The head

10 of the group, the one who organised the operation was Xhavit Hasani who

11 had large support with people with crime dossiers, residents of Ljuboten

12 village."

13 It goes on to say this: "Otherwise, the men who placed the mines

14 had their meeting the night before the incident occurred. Their meeting

15 point were weekend cottages at the location Basinec. Some of the men were

16 staying there already and others from Ljuboten village came to Basinec

17 walking down the brook stream passing by the patrols of the army."

18 That's what happened, isn't it, Mr. Bushi?

19 A. That's not correct.

20 MR. METTRAUX: Could the registry please turn to the next page.

21 Q. The document, Mr. Bushi, continues by saying this: "Afterwards,

22 the most of the terrorist group went in the direction of the ridge of the

23 Kumanovo regions and others went back in Ljuboten village and they got

24 settled there, in houses of the so-called upper neighbourhood."

25 Again, that's what happened, Mr. Bushi. Is that correct?

Page 5882

1 A. That's not what happened. It did not happen.

2 Q. And the document further says that: "Unknown persons had gathered

3 in Ljuboten village prior to the incident, as the source mentioned during

4 the conversation (most possible they were from Kosovo). These men

5 introduced themselves as members of the Xhavit Hasani's group. Small

6 group of them wore black uniforms and others in civilian clothes strolled

7 in the village."

8 Do you agree that's what happened, Mr. Bushi?

9 A. No, I don't agree.

10 MR. METTRAUX: Would that be a convenient time, Your Honour.

11 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, it will.

12 We will resume at 1.00.

13 --- Recess taken at 12.30 p.m.

14 --- On resuming at 1.02 p.m.

15 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Mr. Mettraux.

16 MR. METTRAUX: Thank you, Your Honour.

17 Q. Mr. Bushi, you will recall that before the break we were

18 discussing the area above Ljuboten called Basinec. Do you recall?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Is that correct, Mr. Bushi, that this area had been used by your

21 organisation as --

22 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreters have lost the sound. They can't

23 hear.

24 A. That's not correct.

25 MR. METTRAUX: Can the interpreter hear now?

Page 5883

1 THE INTERPRETER: Yes, much better.


3 Q. Mr. Bushi, I apologize. I think we had some technical problems.

4 I will ask you the question once again. Is it correct that the area above

5 the village of Ljuboten called Basinec had been used by your organisation,

6 the NLA, as a logistical facility. Is that correct?

7 A. Not accurate.

8 Q. And it had been used as such since the month of March of 2001, at

9 the least. Is that correct?

10 A. That's not correct.

11 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, simply to save time we indicate for

12 the record, for the transcript Exhibit 1D168 and Exhibit 1D143.

13 Q. Mr. Bushi, you have told this Trial Chamber that your brigade

14 consisted of approximately one thousand men. Do you recall saying that?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And do you recall saying also that your supplies and logistics

17 were coming not from Ljuboten but from the town of Aracinovo. Do you

18 recall that?

19 A. Yes, I remember.

20 Q. Could you tell this Chamber how many kilos of food you needed

21 every day or every week for 1.000 men?

22 A. Please repeat the question once again.

23 Q. Yes. Could you indicate approximately, I'm not asking you for a

24 detailed answer, but approximately how many kilos of food you would need

25 to feed the 1.000 people which you say were members of your organisation

Page 5884

1 at the time. Per day or per week.

2 A. I don't know exactly, but Selam Hasani was the head of logistics;

3 he would know better. And all things like bread was prepared in the

4 village, it was not coming from the city. From the city we brought in

5 other stuff.

6 Q. Would you agree that approximately for each men you would need a

7 supply of about one kilo of food and drinks per day. Is that

8 approximately correct?

9 A. You could say that, but I don't know.

10 Q. Do you know how many kilos or what quantity of ammunition,

11 mortars, guns and so on you needed for your organisation on a regular

12 basis? Do you know that, for the 1.000 men?

13 A. They're not measured by kilogram. They are measured by the piece,

14 and weapons we've had, starting from pistols, Kalashnikovs, hand grenades,

15 mortar 62-millimetres, grenade launchers -- we had hand grenade launchers,

16 150 and 500.

17 Q. And are you able to say how many pieces or what quantity of

18 ammunition and materiel you would receive every week or on a monthly

19 basis, whatever you can assess?

20 A. No, I can't say that.

21 Q. What about the rest of logistics, clothing, medical supplies and

22 so on and so forth. What quantity would you receive on a weekly basis for

23 your brigade?

24 A. That was in accordance with the needs.

25 Q. The quantities both of medical supply, clothing, guns, ammunition

Page 5885

1 and so on, they were quite consequent, is that correct? They were quite

2 large, large quantities.

3 A. Yes. There were large quantities and there were people

4 responsible for looking after that.

5 Q. And can you tell this Chamber how you would transport this

6 logistic, the food, the medical supplies and the ammunition. How would

7 you transport those?

8 A. It was the logistics who was in charge of that and it was done by

9 using horses.

10 Q. Is it correct, Mr. Bushi, that it is completely impracticable, and

11 if not completely impossible, for a group of one thousand men to be

12 resupplied from Nikustak to Aracinovo using, as you suggest horses. Do

13 you agree with that?

14 A. I don't agree with what you're saying. It depends on how good the

15 organisation is.

16 Q. Isn't that correct, Mr. Bushi, that at the time the town of

17 Aracinovo had been completely encircled by the Macedonian forces and that

18 your men who were in town at the time were only able to extract themselves

19 from there when a deal was struck between the Macedonian forces and NATO.

20 Do you agree with that?

21 A. It was surrounded, but we had our lines of supply. There were

22 ways of going to the monastery in Matejce and through Nagustak.

23 Q. So you are suggesting that while your men who were surrounded by

24 Macedonian forces in Aracinovo could not get out of the area, members of

25 your brigade were able, on a daily or weekly basis to go in and out with

Page 5886

1 large quantities of supplies on horses. Is that your evidence?

2 A. The way how supplies are brought in is not done in the way you are

3 suggesting. We had our own way of doing it.

4 Q. Well, can you explain then how would you bring all of that

5 logistical material back from Aracinovo and how you would go there?

6 A. All the materials came from Skopje to Haracin and then from there

7 it was taken to Nagustak and to the monastery. We had another supply

8 route, from the 113rd Brigade. That was through Tanusevci.

9 Q. And is that your evidence, Mr. Bushi, that whilst your colleagues

10 who were in the town of Aracinovo encircled by the Macedonian forces could

11 not get out and that it took NATO to trigger a deal you and your people

12 the 114th and the 113rd were able to go back and forth in the city to get

13 supplies out for your troops. Is that your evidence?

14 A. That's not correct.

15 Q. Well, what is correct, Mr. Bushi, is that in fact most of your

16 logistical supply came from the village of Ljuboten. Isn't that correct?

17 A. It's not at all true. Ljuboten was not important to us.

18 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, at this stage I'd simply record or

19 will refer for the transcript to Exhibit P438 on that point.

20 Q. Do you recall, Mr. Bushi, that you were asked a number of

21 questions by my colleague from the Prosecution and by myself about a

22 person called Baki Halimi. Do you recall that?

23 A. Yes, I do.

24 Q. And do you recall that I put to you that Baki Halimi was actually

25 acting as your logistic man in Ljuboten and you denied that was the case.

Page 5887

1 Do you recall that?

2 A. Yes, I remember that.

3 Q. Well, Mr. Bushi, there's a number of documents that I would like

4 to show to you which have been provided to us by the Office of the

5 Prosecution in the course of last week. The first one is Rule 65 ter

6 1D877.

7 Mr. Bushi, what will appear in front of you and is now in front of

8 you is an investigator's notes taken by the Office of the Prosecution of

9 this Tribunal during an interview with a person, a Ljuboten resident

10 called Murseli Hisni. And if you look further down in this document, in

11 particular at point 2, what Mr. Murseli told the Office of the Prosecutor

12 was that when the conflict in Macedonia started, Alimi became a logistical

13 -- a logistics supporter of the NLA.

14 And that's the truth, isn't it, Mr. Bushi?

15 A. That's not correct. That's not true.

16 MR. METTRAUX: Could the witness then be shown Rule 65 ter 1D876,

17 please..

18 Q. And while it appears, Mr. Bushi, I'm putting it to you that you're

19 not willing to tell the truth to this Chamber about the way in which your

20 organisation was organised, in particular how its supply and logistics

21 were organised. Do you agree with that?

22 A. No, I don't agree and I'm telling the truth. And, as I said,

23 supplies were being taken in the way that I described it earlier.

24 Q. Well, the document you have now in front of you, Mr. Bushi, is

25 a -- another investigator's notes, again taken by the Office of the

Page 5888

1 Prosecutor of this Tribunal, this time with Mr. Baki Halimi himself. And

2 I'd like to read to you what Mr. Halimi said to the Office of the

3 Prosecutor. It says this: "During the conversation, Mr. Halimi told us

4 that he was affiliated to the NLA and that he supported the NLA. However,

5 stated that he was not an active member of the NLA and he denied that he

6 was a soldier of the NLA. Mr. Halimi said that he supported the NLA with

7 logistical and financial support; that is, that he collected money from

8 villagers of Ljuboten and other ethnic Albanians for the NLA. He

9 described it as 'raising funds.'"

10 Do you see that?

11 A. I see that. That's in English, yes.

12 Q. If one could turn to the next page, please.

13 And I'll draw your attention to the second paragraph in this

14 document. This was a later meeting between the Office of the Prosecutor

15 and Mr. Halimi. And during that meeting Mr. Halimi said this:

16 "Mr. Halimi acknowledges that he sympathized and supported the NLA. He

17 explained that he provided logistical support to the NLA.'.

18 And that's the truth, isn't it, Mr. Bushi, that despite your

19 denial, Mr. Halimi was the one taking care of logistics for you in the

20 village of Ljuboten. Is that correct?

21 A. That's not correct. Mr. Halimi was not a member of the NLA, and

22 he was not in charge of logistics. He was not a member of the NLA, I

23 repeat. He was a sympathizer of the NLA, providing moral support. And as

24 for what you're saying, financial support, he -- anyone should have had

25 the authorisation from the headquarters, general headquarters of the NLA

Page 5889

1 to conduct that kind of operation.

2 Q. Well, thank you for that --

3 A. Or from the brigade commander.

4 Q. Thank you for that. Do you recall, Mr. Bushi, being asked by the

5 Prosecution whether you could recall what had happened in Ljubotenski

6 Bacila on the 10th of August of 2001, and you told the Prosecution that

7 you had learned about what had happened from Baki Halimi. Do you recall

8 that?

9 A. Yes, I remember that.

10 MR. METTRAUX: For the record this is at page 5607, 25th of

11 September of 2007.

12 Q. Do you recall also being asked by my colleague of the Prosecution

13 whether your brigade had received an order to organise the mine incident

14 in Ljubotenski Bacila, or if you yourself had given such an order and you

15 responded that neither had happened. Do you recall that?

16 A. Yes, I do.

17 Q. This is at page 5609, 25th of September, 2007.

18 And you also asked by my colleague whether you knew of the

19 involvement of any of your soldiers in this incident and you said you

20 didn't. Do you recall saying that?

21 A. I don't know that there was an incident. And I don't know about

22 the involvement of such people.

23 Q. I'm putting it to you, Mr. Bushi, that you are not telling the

24 truth and that you are, in fact, hiding the role, the responsibility and

25 the functioning of your organisation, the NLA. Do you agree with that?

Page 5890

1 A. No, I don't agree with that.

2 Q. Well, Mr. Bushi, on the 21st of August of 2003, the Office of the

3 Prosecutor talked to a former member of your organisation, the NLA, a man

4 who had been a member of your so-called brigade in -- at the time in

5 August of 2001. And he told the following to the Office of the

6 Prosecutor: "Teli's group planted the mine that killed Macedonian

7 soldiers on the Friday." That would be Friday, the 10th of August.

8 And that's correct, isn't it, Mr. Bushi?

9 A. It is not correct.

10 Q. And he added the following when talked to the Prosecution: "Teli

11 himself had been killed before the group assumed his name. Bushi ordered

12 to plant the mine on the road on which the Macedonian soldiers used to

13 move. Hodza told Bushi not to plant the mine and said that if the mine

14 was to be planted some NLA element should enter Ljuboten to prevent

15 another Racak from happening.

16 And again, that's the truth, Mr. Bushi, isn't it. You were the

17 one who ordered your men to go to Ljubotenski Bacila to blow up and murder

18 a number of members of the army. Is that correct?

19 A. No, it's not correct. I have never issued such an order.

20 Q. And this man, Hodza who suggested to you that you should not plant

21 this mine or which, to avoid another Racak, that would be Mr.

22 Xhezair Shaqiri. Is that correct?

23 A. Xhezair Shaqiri is Hodza, yes. But it is not that he said such a

24 thing.

25 Q. And that is the man who you tried to distance yourself in evidence

Page 5891

1 last week saying that this man had nothing to do with your brigade. Is

2 that correct?

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. And in fact what Mr. Shaqiri didn't understand it was your purpose

5 and that of Mr. Ostreni who had given you an order at the time precisely

6 to create an incident that would trigger a reaction from the Macedonian

7 forces. Isn't that correct?

8 A. It is not correct. General Ostreni gave no such order. Neither

9 did I.

10 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, I will also refer for the transcript

11 to Exhibit 1D167.

12 Q. Do you agree, sir, that contrary to your claims of the accusations

13 that you directed at others, in particular at Mr. Boskoski or generally at

14 the Macedonian forces, the representative of the international community

15 had no doubt who had planted the mines in Karpalak on the 8th of August

16 and in Ljubotenski Bacila on the 10th of August and that was the NLA, your

17 organisation. Is that correct?

18 A. As far as Ljuboten is concerned, I can say things with full

19 responsibility. But when it comes to Karpalak I cannot say that, because

20 it wasn't under my area of responsibility.

21 MR. METTRAUX: Could the witness be shown what is Exhibit 1D14,

22 please.

23 And if you could scroll down a little bit in that document.

24 Q. Mr. Bushi, this is a press article, but what I would like to show

25 to you, it is dated the 10th of August of 2001, and it is from the

Page 5892

1 Guardian newspaper. The passage I would like to bring to your attention

2 is the middle of the page and starts with the word: "The US envoy to

3 Macedonia."

4 Can you see that?

5 A. Which paragraph?

6 Q. It would be the sixth paragraph in the document.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Well, in the version that is on the screen, Your, Honour that

9 would be further down the document where it starts with the word:

10 "Speaking in Sofia." This is a slightly different version. I'll use the

11 one that is on the screen.

12 Can you see that?

13 A. Yes, I can see that.

14 Q. And this is a statement attributed to, Mr. Bushi, to Mr. Pardew

15 the US envoy at the time and if you look further up in the document it

16 refers to the event of Ljuboten.

17 And this is what Ambassador Pardew said in reaction to those

18 events: "Speaking in Sofia, Bulgaria, earlier Friday, US envoy James

19 Pardew said that despite the violence he was optimistic a peace deal would

20 be signed on Monday as agreed to Wednesday by Macedonian rival parties."

21 And then there's a quote. He says this: "No one supports the

22 Albanian extremists, certainly not the United States nor any of our

23 European allies. Said Pardew who helped oversee the peace talks." Then

24 he said: "The use the force by Albanian extremists in Macedonia is

25 unacceptable and totally rejected by the United States."

Page 5893

1 Can you see that?

2 A. Yes.

3 MR. METTRAUX: And if perhaps you could scroll back up to the top

4 of the document, you will see on the third paragraph the article referred

5 to, inter alia, "the explosion that occurred some 10.6 miles north of the

6 capital near the village of Ljubanci and Ljuboten when a convoy of army

7 trucks drove over a land-mine."

8 Can you see that?

9 A. I see that.

10 Q. Is that correct that your mine attacks, in particular those two

11 mine attacks on the 8th and 10th of August of 2001, gave rise to

12 condemnation by the president of the Security Council of the United

13 Nations. Are you aware of that?

14 A. I'm not aware of that condemnation.

15 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, this is Exhibit 1D15. It has been

16 used last week, I believe.

17 Q. Mr. Bushi, do you recall that you've indicated your belief that

18 documents coming from the Macedonian authorities covering the period July

19 to September were unreliable. I think you repeated that quite a number of

20 times. Do you recall?

21 A. Yes. But the dates are as of early February till the late

22 September.

23 MR. METTRAUX: Could the witness please be shown Exhibit 1D166,

24 please.

25 Q. Mr. Bushi, this is one of the UBK documents which was shown to you

Page 5894

1 by my colleague of the Prosecutor. I hope you will recall or remember

2 this particular document.

3 Can you remember it?

4 A. Yes, I can.

5 Q. If we can turn to the next page, please.

6 Do you recall that you were being asked about a number of

7 individuals who are listed as members of the NLA from the village of

8 Ljuboten. Do you recall being read out those names and giving your

9 opinion about those?

10 A. Yes, I recall.

11 Q. And in response to a number of them, you said that you did not

12 know them or him. Do you recall saying that?

13 A. I said that I knew Refedin from this list and Baki. I may as well

14 know the others, but I have to see them first.

15 Q. And Refedin is Refedin Selimi. Is that correct, Mr. Bushi?

16 A. I know that there was one Refedin from Ljuboten. I don't know if

17 there were other Refedins from that village. But I don't know his last

18 name.

19 Q. And when you said that you did not know whether some of the

20 others, some of the other persons, that did you not know were or were not

21 members of the NLA, you did not wish to suggest that they were not. Your

22 evidence was simply that you don't know. Is that correct?

23 A. I maybe know them, but only if I see them.

24 Q. You recall, Mr. Bushi, that you've told the Prosecution and

25 repeated before this Chamber that in June of 2001 when you were arrested,

Page 5895

1 you said you saw patches on the arms of a number of men with the Lions on

2 it. Do you recall saying that?

3 A. Yes, I do.

4 Q. Well, I'm putting it to you, Mr. Bushi, that again this is not

5 true. Is that correct?

6 A. You're not right.

7 Q. Is it correct that when you gave your statement to the Office of

8 the Prosecutor in June of 2004, you never mentioned any members of the

9 Lions unit being present during that incident. Do you agree with that?

10 A. It could be, but I don't remember now.

11 Q. And you didn't mention any member of any special units either. Is

12 that correct?

13 A. I mentioned that there was a number of policemen and special

14 units. Now I don't remember what I said exactly, but it is true that they

15 arrested me, and I told them that.

16 Q. Well, what you said is this. It's at paragraph 2 of your

17 statement: "On 9th of June 2001, I was arrested. About 100 uniformed

18 policemen, military and men in plain clothes came to my house and made a

19 search."

20 Do you agree that there was no reference to any members of the

21 Lions or any special units, Mr. Bushi?

22 A. It is possible that I did not mention that name at the time, but

23 it was Lions who came there.

24 Q. And you did not mention this name either, two years later when the

25 Prosecution came back to have your statement read and signed. Is that

Page 5896

1 correct?

2 A. It could be. But now I'm telling you that they were there.

3 Q. So if half a dozen witnesses were to appear in this court to

4 testify that, at that time, the Lions unit had not yet been set up, and if

5 documents would support this evidence, they would all be wrong. Is that

6 correct, Mr. Bushi?

7 A. I've seen them with my own eyes.

8 Q. And you've also claimed to have seen them during riots in Skopje.

9 Can you recall that?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And that's information which you said you obtained from the media.

12 Is that correct?

13 A. Yes, correct.

14 Q. And you did not seek to verify that information. Is that correct?

15 A. I verified it by the information I had and through some persons.

16 Q. And what was that information you had and the persons you

17 contacted, Mr. Bushi?

18 A. Information that members of the Lions unit were there.

19 Q. And from whom did you receive that information, Mr. Bushi?

20 A. That is a secret.

21 Q. I see. And you also remember telling the Prosecutor that during

22 those riots, Mr. Boskoski's car was burned by the mob. Do you recall

23 telling them that?

24 A. Yes, I do.

25 Q. I'm grateful for your patience Mr. Bushi.

Page 5897

1 MR. METTRAUX: Thank you, Your Honour. This is all.

2 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you, Mr. Mettraux.

3 MR. METTRAUX: I was ahead of myself, Your Honour. I'm

4 unfortunately reminded that there's a number of documents which I would

5 seek to tender at this stage. Perhaps that may occupy the last minutes of

6 the day.

7 Your Honour, the first document which the Defence would seek to

8 tender is a collection of documents obtained by the Office of the

9 Prosecutor from the German authorities. It's -- it appears on the

10 Prosecution exhibit list as Rule 65 ter 284 and it has been identified as

11 1D829 by the Defence.

12 JUDGE PARKER: Ms. Regue.

13 MS. REGUE: Just briefly, Your Honour. We had in our 65 ter list

14 a full version of this document. Which is not exactly the 65 ter document

15 that my learned colleague seeks to tender, which is actually 45 pages. We

16 are aware that this document has been put to the witness at least -- on a

17 couple of occasions, but based on a ruling last week that some documents

18 were admitted for the purpose of testing the credibility of this witness

19 not necessarily for the truth of its content. The Prosecution is

20 wondering whether my learned colleague is seeking to tender the document

21 with the same intention because if this is the case, we are talking about

22 a document of 45 pages and the witness has only been shown a small

23 extracts of this document.

24 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Mettraux.

25 MR. METTRAUX: Well, Your Honour, I think it has a double

Page 5898

1 purpose. It's -- some of the information that is contained in this

2 document as indicated by my colleague has been put by myself, but I

3 believe also by the Prosecutor herself. The document is relevant not only

4 some of the fact to which it testifies, but also as correctly pointed out

5 by colleague to the credibility of this witness who has been denying a

6 number of incidents or a number of facts which are recorded in this

7 document. So it is relevant both, Your Honour, to some of the factual

8 matter reported in the document and to the credibility of this particular

9 witness.

10 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Mettraux, have I understood you correctly.

11 There is a document of some 45 pages which has been obtained from a

12 European government and it deals, from what we have seen of it, with

13 aspects of the affairs in Macedonia at the relevant time.

14 Now you've put to the witness one or two aspects. But you now

15 want to tender the 45 pages. On what basis is it going to be relevant?

16 MR. METTRAUX: Well, there are two things, Your Honour, we believe

17 that the Chamber could take into consideration. We believe that some

18 other parts of document may be used at a later stage. So that's more the

19 practical consideration having the entire document which would avoid

20 having a piecemeal approach. Second one is, we believed it concerns the

21 entire relevant period of approximately ten days or 15 days during this

22 period and there are other aspects of this document which may be relevant

23 to your consideration.

24 If, however, the Chamber were aware of the view that at this stage

25 only those parts which have been put to the witness should be tendered, we

Page 5899

1 could either do that, Your Honour. Or perhaps if is it more agreeable to

2 you we could mark the entire document as an MFI and if and when the

3 document is further used with another witness, we could then seek to

4 tender the entire document, not to divide it into pieces. Or if it is not

5 being used by either the Prosecution or ourselves it would then seek to

6 tender only those specific aspect of the document which have been used

7 with this witness.

8 JUDGE PARKER: The last course appears to the Chamber to be the

9 appropriate one. It should be marked for identification as a document at

10 the moment. And it will be left to counsel, whether at some later stage

11 if the document is used or not used to seek to tender as an exhibit any

12 part of it that is seen to justify admission.

13 MR. METTRAUX: I'm grateful to Your Honour.

14 THE REGISTRAR: The document will become Exhibit 1D229, marked for

15 identification, Your Honours.

16 MR. METTRAUX: The second document, Your Honour, which the Defence

17 would seek to tender at this stage was identified as Rule 65 ter 54.

18 That's again from the Prosecution Rule 65 ter list and this is the record

19 of meeting of the Security Council on the 7th of March, 2001 which has

20 been considered quite extensively with this witness.

21 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.

22 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit 1D230, Your Honours.

23 MR. METTRAUX: The next document, Your Honour, is a record, a

24 transcript of a press briefing of the United States State Department which

25 again has been put extensively to Mr. Bushi. It is dated the 30th of

Page 5900

1 April of 2001, and it is Rule 65 ter 1D818.

2 JUDGE PARKER: You put into the record those parts of that

3 briefing that were relevant. You read them to the witness. Why is the

4 document itself going to be of any relevance so as to justify its

5 admission.

6 MR. METTRAUX: The only reason, Your Honour, really is one of

7 caution in case the transcript does not reflect the exact contents of the

8 document, whether it is by fault of the pronunciation of the counsel or by

9 any other reason. It is more a security that Your Honour can rely on the

10 exact wording of the document. Other than that, Your Honour is quite

11 correct that there would be no other valid purposes at this stage, at

12 least.

13 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.

14 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit 1D231, Your Honours.

15 MR. METTRAUX: The next document, Your Honour, is Rule 65 ter

16 1D712. This is a report or a collection of information by the Balkan

17 Human Rights organisation which is associated with the Helsinki Committee

18 which was put in several of its parts to the witness. It is Rule 65 ter

19 1D712.

20 [Trial Chamber confers]

21 JUDGE PARKER: Our quick scanning of the transcript of Friday

22 suggests out of caution we should receive this document as well.

23 MR. METTRAUX: I'm grateful. Thank you, Your Honour.

24 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit 1D232, Your Honours.

25 MR. METTRAUX: The next document, Your Honour, is an UNMIK news.

Page 5901

1 It is the United Nations interim administration mission in Kosovo. And

2 again, I believe on Friday a passage of that document was put to the

3 witness. It was Rule 65 ter 1D852. And we seek to tender it, Your

4 Honour.

5 JUDGE PARKER: For the same reason it will be received.

6 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit 1D233, Your Honours.

7 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, we also ask that a Rule 65 ter 1D233

8 be marked for identification. Only one passage was put to the witness, it

9 will be used again.

10 JUDGE PARKER: It will be marked.

11 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit 1D234, marked for identification, Your

12 Honours.

13 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, the next document is Rule 65 ter

14 1D286. It is a joint statement by President Bush and Chancellor Gerhard

15 Schroeder dated the 29th of March, 2001, and it was again put to the

16 witness in the course of Friday, I believe.

17 JUDGE PARKER: We're getting well down what we feel is a wrong

18 road of admission, Mr. Mettraux, but out of caution because of some

19 problems with the transcript, we will receive it.

20 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit 1D235, Your Honours.

21 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, the next document is Rule 65 ter

22 1D117. This is the presidential order by President George Bush dated the

23 26th of June, 2001.

24 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.

25 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit 1D236, Your Honours.

Page 5902

1 MR. METTRAUX: Next document, is the accompanying statement by the

2 press secretary of the White House. It is Rule 65 ter 1D715.

3 JUDGE PARKER: Are there more, Mr. Mettraux?

4 MR. METTRAUX: There are four more, Your Honour.

5 JUDGE PARKER: We're already over time. I think we must adjourn,

6 and we will deal with the balance of them when we resume tomorrow at 9.00.

7 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.46 p.m.,

8 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 2nd day of

9 October, 2007, at 9.00 a.m.