1 Monday, 25 February 2008

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 --- Upon commencing at 2.23 p.m.

5 JUDGE PARKER: Good afternoon. I'm sorry that because of a matter

6 which delayed me we are late starting.

7 We are told that there may be some procedural matters to be

8 raised.

9 Ms. Residovic.

10 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you very much, Your Honour.

11 In the course of the re-examination of Professor Taseva, the

12 professor was shown two documents, which the Defence would like to tender

13 into evidence. I have shown both of the documents to my learned friends

14 from the Prosecution, and it is my understanding that they will not have

15 any objections to the admission.

16 The first document is 65 ter 1D1268. This document is actually

17 the Law on Special Rights of the Members of the Security Services of the

18 Republic of Macedonia and members of their families, which defines the

19 security forces and what they are.

20 MR. SAXON: Prosecution has no objection, Your Honour.

21 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. This will be received, Ms. Residovic.

22 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit 1D313, Your Honours.

23 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] The second document that the

24 Defence would like to tender for admission is 65 ter 1DP29 [as

25 interpreted] which was shown to Professor Taseva in re-examination. This

1 is a combat order that was issued by the General Staff of the army of the

2 Republic of Macedonia on the 21st of June, 2001 and sent to the unit for

3 special tasks of the Ministry of Interior. It seems that the number has

4 been recorded wrongly. I shall repeat it, Your Honour. 65 ter 1D529.

5 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received by consent.

6 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit 1D314, Your Honours.

7 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] And, finally, Your Honour, I would

8 kindly ask for document P96 to be admitted with part of the

9 translation of the article, starting from Article 286 to 296.

10 Your Honour, in keeping with your previous decision, large

11 documents have not always been translated fully, and it has been suggested

12 that the parties that wish to use parts that have not been translated at

13 the moment when the document was admitted to do their own translation.

14 This is one part of the document, P96 which speaks about the use and

15 possession of arms. This was admitted --

16 THE INTERPRETER: If the counsel could repeat the number.

17 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] This is the identification number

18 of this document, which the Defence has been given from the CLSS service,

19 and at our request the CLSS has translated this part of the Exhibit P96.

20 We would kindly ask for this part of the translation to be joined

21 with the Exhibit P96.

22 JUDGE PARKER: So it's merely to add a translation of part of the

23 existing exhibit.

24 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes. Which was previously not

25 translated.

1 JUDGE PARKER: That translation will be added to the existing

2 exhibit, P96.

3 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. Clerk.

4 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Mettraux.

5 MR. METTRAUX: Good afternoon, Your Honours. I'm afraid there are

6 two more matters which we would like to bring to the attention of the

7 Chamber at this stage.

8 Two of the issues which were scheduled or put on the agenda for

9 this afternoon have been resolved and I'm grateful to my colleague. Your

10 Honour.

11 The first one related to the Rule 92 bis summaries of four witness

12 statements and the proposition of the Defence would be perhaps to read

13 those statement for the record later in the week when there is a break,

14 for instance between two witnesses as it might be more efficient.

15 The second issue which was listed on the agenda concerned two

16 documents, Your Honour, which we have placed on the list of documents to

17 be used with the next witness, Mr. Keskovski. Those documents do not

18 appear on our Rule 65 ter lists and we should formally seek leave to add

19 them to our list before tendering them and we have indicated to our

20 colleagues that we believe the best way to do so would be to seek leave at

21 the time when the document is being shown and used with the witness rather

22 than at the commencement of the hearing. If it is agreeable to the

23 Chamber, Your Honour.

24 JUDGE PARKER: Well, if counsel are agreed it will be more

25 practical the matter can be dealt document by document as you reach it.

1 MR. METTRAUX: I'm grateful. Your Honour, the third matter which

2 we would like to bring to your attention concerned an application for the

3 admission of a number of document from the bar table by the Defence and

4 more specifically to a response to that motion dated the 14th of February

5 of 2008. It concerns the general motion for admission of documents from

6 the bar table as opposed to the one that relates to the, quote, unquote,

7 armed conflict motion.

8 The Defence would seek leave, Your Honour, briefly to reply to a

9 matter but before we do so we would like to indicate that we are well out

10 of time to reply to the matter and that the basis for our request, Your

11 Honour, is simply that we have reviewed a number of correspondence between

12 the Prosecution and ourselves and that we would wish to bring to the

13 attention of the Chamber a particular exchange in relation to this issue

14 which we should in frankness have done within the deadline for the reply.

15 At this stage, Your Honour, we simply seek leave in the belief

16 that this clarification or this addition may assist the Chamber in its

17 consideration of this matter, if permitted to proceed.

18 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Saxon.

19 MR. SAXON: Your Honour, as my colleague has indicated, the

20 Defence are well out of time. Second of all, the Chamber has indicated

21 that they only wish to receive replies at this stage of the proceedings

22 when there really are exceptional circumstances warranting a reply and I

23 haven't heard really from my colleague that he has established or

24 described such circumstances.

25 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, perhaps to specify, I don't want to be

1 unfair to my colleague by going into the substance but perhaps to explain

2 at least before you decide whether to allow us to proceed, the Prosecution

3 made certain submissions in relation to an intercept of a particular

4 conversation which was played to a witness, and in its response the

5 Prosecution refers to a position which it says the Defence took in

6 relation to this matter. In effect, Your Honour, there was an e-mail in

7 response to the e-mail to which the Prosecution refers and we believe that

8 this response that we gave to the Prosecution at the time could assist the

9 Chamber in its determination and would certainly be of assistance to

10 understand the position in this matter.

11 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.

12 [Trial Chamber confers]

13 JUDGE PARKER: We will not receive the document, Mr. Mettraux.

14 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, that would be all for the procedural

15 matters.

16 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.

17 Is there anything of yours, Mr. Apostolski?

18 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours.

19 I have a procedural issue, but I would ask the counsel that this

20 be done in private session.

21 JUDGE PARKER: Private.

22 [Private session]

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6 [Open session]

7 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're in open session.

8 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much.

9 Just looking ahead a little further, Mr. Apostolski, the prospect

10 is now seen that the Boskoski Defence will finish on Monday of next week.

11 Are you in a position to continue from that point on? Perhaps starting

12 Tuesday.

13 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Your Honours, the Defence of

14 Johan Tarculovski is prepared to begin its Defence on Tuesday.

15 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. We notice that you are continuing to be

16 very careful in your scrutiny of potential witnesses and reducing your

17 case even more as matters are dealt with here. How would you see the

18 length of your case at the present time, Mr. Apostolski? Is it too early

19 yet to get a prediction?

20 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Your Honour, as for the length of

21 the case, perhaps it is a little bit too earlier for me to say.

22 I believe that we will be within the foreseen time-frame. It may

23 even be reduced because we have stricken some of the witnesses off the

24 list, and most probably Witness M2D-007 will most probably also be

25 stricken off the list, and we anticipate the Defence of Johan Tarculovski

1 would take about 15 working days.

2 [Trial Chamber confers]

3 JUDGE PARKER: That would make it very touch-and-go, if you

4 understand that expression, to finish by at least one of the Easters, not

5 the orthodox Easter but the other Easter. That would probably be around

6 12 or 13 days, rather than 15.

7 Is it practical, do you think, to think of finishing the evidence

8 by that Easter, which would be Thursday, the 20th of March?

9 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I can say that

10 there is a slight possibility to that end, but I cannot state with

11 certainty at this moment.

12 It would depend on how the testimony transpires. We feel that

13 most of the time will be used to question the military expert. I believe

14 that his will be the longest testimony and the others will -- will take

15 less time than that.

16 JUDGE PARKER: Well, maybe you're inviting the Chamber to be very

17 determined in its scrutiny of times, and if we do that it may be possible

18 to finish everything by Easter.

19 We will accept that challenge, Mr. Tarculovski -- Mr. Apostolski.

20 I keep doing that. But I think your client has got used to it. And we

21 will see if that is feasible. Of course we're not wanting to shorten your

22 case to the point where the case is adversely affected, but if just by

23 careful management of time we can finish by Easter it would be to

24 everyone's advantage in terms of reaching the actual end of the case.

25 Because I'm sure that your two clients, above all else, are now at the

1 point where they would dearly love to see the end of this case.

2 Very well. Thank you for that.

3 Is there any issue that you --

4 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Your Honours.

5 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Mr. Apostolski.

6 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] I apologise but I just want to

7 note that I will take into consideration and -- what you have said and I

8 will try to adjust my pace to that.

9 JUDGE PARKER: We've grateful.

10 Is there any comment you would want to make, Mr. Saxon, in all of

11 that?

12 MR. SAXON: No, Your Honour.

13 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.

14 Perhaps we may now have the next witness.

15 [Trial Chamber confers]

16 [The witness entered court]

17 JUDGE PARKER: Good afternoon, sir.

18 THE WITNESS: Good afternoon.

19 JUDGE PARKER: Would you please take the card that is given to you

20 and read aloud the affirmation.

21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak

22 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

23 WITNESS: ZLATKO KESKOVSKI

24 [Witness answered through interpreter]

25 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. Please sit down.

1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

2 JUDGE PARKER: I believe Mr. Mettraux has some questions for you.

3 MR. METTRAUX: Thank you, Your Honour.

4 Examination by Mr. Mettraux:

5 Q. Good afternoon, sir. For the record my name is Guenael Mettraux

6 and I'm appearing together with Edina Residovic on behalf of Mr. Boskoski.

7 Could you state your name, date and place of birth for the record,

8 please.

9 A. My name is Zlatko Keskovski. I was born on 29 June, 1970 in

10 Ohrid, the Republic of Macedonia.

11 Q. And are you married, Mr. Keskovski?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Do you have any children?

14 A. Yes. I have two small children, Aleksander and Vladimir.

15 Q. And could you state briefly what your current professional

16 occupation is. What is your job?

17 A. I'm a lecturer in martial arts at the university Fon at the

18 faculty of security and detectives in Skopje, the Republic of Macedonia.

19 Q. And again, briefly, could you state in summary at least what your

20 education is, what your educational background is?

21 A. I am an a mechanical engineer and a marketing manager at public

22 management.

23 Q. And where did you receive those degrees from, sir?

24 A. I graduated at the faculty of mechanical engineering in Bitola,

25 Republic of Macedonia, and a college in Novi Sad, Republic of Serbia.

1 Q. And aside from your professional activities, do you have any

2 extra-curricular activities which are to be mentioned here? In

3 particular, are you engaged in any sort of society or organisation?

4 A. Yes, I'm a member of the board of directors of the World

5 Karate Association with headquarters in Italy; I'm a representative of

6 kendai [phoen], the federation for the Republic of Macedonia and one of

7 its founders. I am a founder and a representative for Macedonia for the

8 Jiu-Jitsu federation for Macedonia, official representatives for the

9 Japanese karate federation for the Republic of Macedonia. I conduct

10 training of various security groupations of civilian nature, and I have

11 done so through many European countries and throughout the world, starting

12 as of 1994 onwards. I am the only Balkan instructor of karate for people

13 with disabilities and I hope there will be many other things that will

14 follow.

15 I am also a four-time world champion in Jiu-Jitsu, third in the

16 world in 1997, champion in New York, 1996. I have received the medal of

17 Saint Kliment from the town of Ohrid, three medals for fostering the

18 karate sport in Macedonia, certificate of gratitude from the organisation

19 for people with disabilities of the city of Skopje, and a certificate of

20 appreciation from the home for children without parents from Skopje, a

21 former engagement with these children and many other such awards.

22 Q. Well, just a quick point of clarification. You've indicated that

23 you have conducted training for what is translated as security groupations

24 of civilian nature. Does this include law enforcement organisation,

25 police forces abroad?

1 A. I've conducted training of instructors who train various security

2 structures in a number of European countries.

3 Q. And going backward, perhaps, a bit in your career, did you at some

4 stage join of Ministry of Interior of the Republic of Macedonia?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And could you indicate when that was and in what capacity you

7 joined?

8 A. I became employed at the Ministry of Interior officially in 1999.

9 My first post was head of section for the security of the president of the

10 Republic of Macedonia.

11 Q. We're going to come back to your employment and your activities in

12 the sector of security of the president. But could you tell me whether at

13 some stage you left the security sector of the president, and if so, when?

14 A. I left the security sector of the president of the Republic of

15 Macedonia on the 1st of June, 2002.

16 Q. And are you aware, Mr. Keskovski, of a number of stories or

17 rumours which were published in the Macedonian press about the reason for

18 your departure from this position? Are you aware of those stories?

19 A. Yes.

20 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, could we move in private session for a

21 moment.

22 JUDGE PARKER: Private.

23 [Private session]

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23 [Open session]

24 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're back in open session.

25 MR. METTRAUX:

1 Q. Mr. Keskovski, you've indicated that you changed position, I

2 believe, at the beginning of the month of June of 2002 and that you

3 changed position within the ministry. Would you be able to say what

4 position you went to next?

5 A. Immediately after my departure from the sector for security of the

6 president, I was issued a decision to be deputy to the assistant to the

7 minister for security.

8 Q. And how long approximately, if you can recall, did you stay in

9 that position?

10 A. I stayed in that position for about two months.

11 Q. And what position or job did you go to next?

12 A. My next job was assistant to the director in the directorate

13 security and counter-intelligence for operative matters.

14 Q. And could you indicate, again if you can remember, how long

15 approximately you stayed in that position?

16 A. I stayed in my position between the beginning of August 2002 and

17 until my termination of employment with the Ministry of the Interior,

18 which was at the beginning of January 2003.

19 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, in light of the previous ruling of the

20 Chamber we'll not explore the circumstances under which he left the

21 ministry.

22 Q. Mr. Keskovski, were you at some stage requested by the Ministry of

23 the Interior to return any money or any item that you had received in the

24 course of your employment in the ministry?

25 A. So, after the termination of my employment, I did not receive any

1 request to return any means or instruments until a point in time, in 2006,

2 when I received at my home address a summon for court hearing, because I

3 had allegedly failed to return a 600 -- restore 600 dollars to the

4 ministry of the interior, around 24.000 Macedonian dinars.

5 Q. And are those proceedings ongoing, Mr. Keskovski?

6 A. Yes. It is still ongoing and on the 17th of March this year we

7 have a hearing in the Basic Court Skopje II.

8 Q. And perhaps very briefly, Mr. Keskovski, if you can, could you

9 indicate what those 600 dollars relate to?

10 A. This 600 dollars are related to a trip to the Republic of Croatia

11 in November 2002 when the Republic of Macedonia -- November 2000 when it

12 initialed the stablisation and association agreement with the European

13 Union. I, as the head of security of the president, went together to

14 Croatia in a car as the first group that went and when returning there is

15 a -- there was a -- the road was blocked between Nis and Skopje, because

16 of the military activities of the army of the then Federal Republic

17 of Yugoslavia, that was fighting with the liberation army of Presevo,

18 Medvedje and Bujanovac, so the road was blocked and we needed to go to the

19 Republic of Bulgaria. To be able then to reach Macedonia there were an

20 additional 400 kilometres or something and the money was spent for that

21 purpose and not for any personal need.

22 Q. Has any other proceeding been initiated against you by the

23 Ministry of Interior?

24 A. No. Not now, not ever in my life, regardless of whether it was

25 from an official -- in my official capacity or in my capacity of an

1 individual.

2 Q. And before perhaps we move on to the evidence most directly

3 relevant to this case, Mr. Keskovski. Let me ask you this: Are you in

4 any way related to Mr. Boskoski?

5 A. Yes. The Minister Boskoski was the best man at my wedding.

6 Q. And could you say why you chose Mr. Boskoski to be your best man

7 at your wedding?

8 A. Because of the simple reason, I wanted an honest person to be the

9 best man at my wedding.

10 Q. And do you continue to have friendly relationship or relations

11 with the family of Mr. Boskoski to this day?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And do you feel that this relationship would impair your ability

14 to say the truth before this Chamber, Mr. Keskovski?

15 A. No. Since I am here to speak the truth and I declared that.

16 Q. Well, let me ask you now a few questions, Mr. Keskovski, about the

17 structure of the sector in which you worked, the sector of security of the

18 president.

19 MR. METTRAUX: And I would ask the registry to bring up what is

20 Exhibit 1D107, please.

21 Your Honour, we also have a binder for the Judges, our colleagues

22 and for the witness. We have been relatively modest, there is only one

23 binder per person, and with the assistance of the usher we could

24 distribute them.

25 Q. Mr. Keskovski, the document which has appeared in front of you is

1 also in your binder, under tab 2, if it is more comfortable for you to

2 look at a paper copy.

3 A. Yes, I see it.

4 Q. And as you can see, Mr. Keskovski, this document is the Book of

5 Rules of organisation and operation of the ministry of the interior

6 affairs.

7 MR. METTRAUX: And I would ask the registry to turn to page 6 of

8 that document. That would be 1D004397, and it would be 4375 in the

9 Macedonian.

10 Q. Mr. Keskovski, the article in question would be Article 5. Do you

11 have that? It would be ... If you look at the numbering at the bottom of

12 the page in your version, should be 1D00-4375.

13 A. Yes, I see it.

14 Q. Simply for identification purposes, Mr. Keskovski, is Article 5

15 the article of the rule book that pertains to generally the sector for

16 security of the minister of the interior. Is that correct?

17 A. The Article 5 pertains to the sector for security and the Article

18 5.1 pertains to the unit for security of the president of the Republic.

19 Q. Well, I'm grateful. You've answered my next question.

20 MR. METTRAUX: And if I could ask the registry now to turn to page

21 1D00-4414 in the English and 1D00-4390 in the Macedonian.

22 Q. Mr. Keskovski, if you turn in your version this would be the

23 last-page-but-one in the Macedonian.

24 A. Yes, I see it.

25 Q. Do you recognise this diagram, Mr. Keskovski?

1 A. Yes. This is the organisational chart of the Ministry of

2 Interior.

3 Q. And perhaps with the assistance of the usher, would you be able to

4 locate on this particular diagram the location in the structure of the

5 sector for security? I think it is called sector for protection in the

6 English translation.

7 A. The unit for protection of the president is within the bureau for

8 public security. Should I mark it?

9 Q. Yes, please.

10 A. [Marks].

11 Q. Thank you.

12 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, we'd seek to tender this picture

13 separately, if it's possible.

14 JUDGE PARKER: I think it may be.

15 MR. METTRAUX: If Your Honour prefer, we could have the English

16 version marked if it is preferable for the Chamber.

17 JUDGE PARKER: It would be.

18 MR. METTRAUX: Could the English version please be brought in. It

19 would be page 1D00-4414.

20 Q. Mr. Keskovski, I apologise for asking you to do so twice, but are

21 you able to locate the sector for protection or the sector for security in

22 which you worked at the time on the English version?

23 A. Yes, no problem. Let me just find it. Give me a minute.

24 Q. Could you perhaps locate it on the screen, Mr. Keskovski.

25 A. [Marks].

1 Q. Thank you.

2 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, we would seek to tender the English

3 version instead.

4 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.

5 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit 1D315, Your Honours.

6 MR. METTRAUX: Thank you.

7 Q. Mr. Keskovski, I'll ask you now to turn to what is tab 3 of your

8 binder. And this would be Rule 65 ter 1D1297.

9 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, this is one of the two documents that

10 have not been placed on our 65 ter list yet. Well, it appears not to have

11 been uploaded yet, Your Honour. In that case we move on and we'll come

12 back to it.

13 Q. Mr. Keskovski, could you tell what ministry or ministries had

14 contributed employees to your sector, the sector of security of the

15 president?

16 A. The sector for security of the president was assisted by the

17 Ministry of Interior and the Ministry of Defence.

18 Q. And could you explain perhaps under what circumstances members of

19 the army or the Ministry of Defence came to operate within that sector?

20 A. Members of the army of the Republic of Macedonia specifically came

21 to our sector upon the order of the president of the Republic of Macedonia

22 after the crisis in the Republic of Macedonia commenced, based on the

23 order of the president the group for security was reinforced by some

24 additional 30 members from the Ministry of Defence or the army of the

25 Republic of Macedonia.

1 Q. And were those individuals placed under your authority as head of

2 the sector or were they placed under a different chain of command?

3 A. Yes. Members of the army of the Republic of Macedonia were under

4 my direct command.

5 Q. I'd like to show you another document at this stage,

6 Mr. Keskovski. That is Rule 65 ter 1D1138.3. And you can also find the

7 document in English only under tab 4 of your binder.

8 It would be tab 4, Mr. Keskovski.

9 As you can see, this is a letter dated the 28th of July of 2005.

10 It comes from the Ministry of Interior of the Republic of Macedonia, and

11 it was sent to the Office of the Prosecutor of this Tribunal. And I would

12 like to draw your attention to the second bulleted paragraph in the middle

13 of the document. That would be page 1D00-9269, for the registry. Thank

14 you very much.

15 Mr. Keskovski, let me read to you a sentence from that particular

16 letter. It reads as follows: "From a legal point of view the head of the

17 presidential security unit in the Ministry of Interior has no authority

18 over the Ministry of Defence's staff responsible for the security of the

19 president."

20 Can you see that?

21 A. Yes, I can see it.

22 Q. And under the law of Macedonia, is that a correct position of

23 principle?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And if we can turn, please, to the next page.

1 I'll draw your attention to the last bulleted paragraph on that

2 document and in particular the last sentence in that document. It says

3 that: "... Positive regulations specify that the Ministry of Interior has

4 no competence over army staff."

5 Can you see that?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And, again is that a position of principle that is correct under

8 Macedonian law?

9 MS. ISSA: Your Honour, I'm objecting to that.

10 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Ms. Issa.

11 MS. ISSA: I don't believe the witness is in a position to -- to

12 know the legal niceties of Macedonian law. I don't think that was his

13 position. He is not called here as an expert nor is he called as a person

14 who is necessarily familiar with Macedonian law, as it were.

15 MR. METTRAUX: I can rephrase, Your Honour. My colleague may have

16 a point.

17 JUDGE PARKER: I think she does, Mr. Mettraux.

18 MR. METTRAUX: She does.

19 Q. Mr. Keskovski, can I ask you that you in a different manner.

20 According to your experience and your years of experience in the

21 Ministry of the Interior, would that be a position that is consistent with

22 your experience of the way the Ministry of Interior functioned?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. But did the president have the power, if he wished, to reorganise

25 the way in which the army and the police interacted and cooperated or was

1 that not a possibility that was open to him at that time?

2 A. He could do so.

3 Q. And perhaps focussing more specifically on your sector, the sector

4 for security of the president, did it ever happen that the president, by

5 an order of the president or the presidential cabinet that the decision

6 was taken to subordinate a number of members of the army to your

7 authority?

8 A. Yes. Upon our request, upon my request, and communication with

9 the advisor for national security, at the beginning of the crisis in the

10 Republic of Macedonia, we requested that the president assist us in

11 raising the security, the protection of the president at a higher level,

12 since at that time the president of the Republic of Macedonia is now and

13 has ever been the supreme commander of the armed forces of the Republic of

14 Macedonia and through his order members of the army of the Republic of

15 Macedonia could be placed at our disposal to assist us in performing our

16 tasks related to the president -- to the security of the president as an

17 institution.

18 Q. And do you know if at any point in time an order was issued to

19 sanction what you have just described?

20 A. Yes. As I said, an order was issued for around 35 members of the

21 special forces of the army of the Republic of Macedonia to join the

22 personal security of the president of the Republic of Macedonia and under

23 the coordination -- in coordination with the head for security of the

24 president.

25 Q. And perhaps, Mr. Keskovski, I will ask you now to turn to what is

1 tab 5 of your binder, please.

2 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, this document is not yet uploaded in

3 e-court and we apologise for it. We believe these two documents will be

4 later today.

5 Q. Mr. Keskovski, do you have this document in front of you?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. For the record this is Rule 65 ter 1D1298.

8 Is it correct that this is an order that comes from the president

9 of the Republic of Macedonia and more specifically his cabinet? It is

10 dated 26th February 2001 and it's to the head of the army of the Republic

11 to the headquarters to General Colonel Jovan Andrevski. Is that correct?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. And is it correct also that if you look at the contents of the

14 document that it relates to the personal protection of the president of

15 the Republic of Macedonia, Boris Trajkovski. Is that correct?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And I would ask you to look at the last paragraph but one in this

18 document, which starts with the words: "Furthermore, all these ...

19 Can you see that?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And I will just read out this sentence to you. It says

22 this: "Furthermore, all these army of the Republic of Macedonia members,

23 including the technical equipment, that is to say the motor vehicles, must

24 be placed under the command of one officer that will be subordinated to

25 President Trajkovsk, chief of security in accordance with the need to

1 coordinate the security system."

2 Would that document, Mr. Keskovski, be consistent with what you

3 have recounted a moment ago?

4 A. Yes.

5 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, we would formally seek first to --

6 leave to add this document to our Rule 65 ter lists and also to tender

7 this document in evidence. As I have indicated, I believe the document

8 would be in e-court hopefully in the course of the afternoon.

9 JUDGE PARKER: Is there any concern, Ms. Issa?

10 MS. ISSA: No. Not for this document, no, Your Honour. Thank

11 you.

12 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. Yes, Mr. Mettraux, leave will be

13 granted.

14 The document will also be received as an exhibit.

15 THE REGISTRAR: And that would be Exhibit 1D316, Your Honours.

16 MR. METTRAUX: Thank you.

17 Q. Mr. Keskovski, do you know of other circumstances where it was not

18 the army but the police that was subordinated to the army? Are you aware

19 of any such instances?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And are you able, perhaps, to give examples that are known to you

22 where this occurred?

23 A. During the crisis in the Republic of Macedonia, there were several

24 cases where the police was under the command of the army of the Republic

25 of Macedonia in several actions, specifically when cleaning the Tetovo

1 area, the Aracinovo action, the action in the Kumanovo and Lipkovo region.

2 Q. And are you able, Mr. Keskovski, to indicate for the Chamber how

3 you are able to say that this was the case in those particular location?

4 How did that knowledge come to you?

5 A. I was personally sent to participate in all these events by the

6 president of the Republic of Macedonia, in order to observe the situation

7 and report or inform regarding the actions that were taking place in the

8 field. I was present at almost all these activities that took place

9 during the crisis in the Republic of Macedonia.

10 Q. And you have just been recorded as saying that you were sent to

11 inform, I believe you said. Who directed the request to you, who were you

12 supposed to inform?

13 A. As I already said, I was sent by the president of the Republic of

14 Macedonia to the field, to inform him about the situations taking place

15 during the actions during the crisis in the Republic of Macedonia.

16 MS. ISSA: Your Honour, sorry to interrupt. Sorry to have to

17 raise this once again, Your Honour, but this is, again, information that

18 we didn't quite receive from my colleague either in the Rule 65 ter (G)

19 summary or the proofing note. There's nothing in here that I see that

20 indicates the witness was present at these actions and was sent

21 specifically by the president to inform him of what was taking place.

22 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, I take issue with that. We have

23 indicated yesterday following a specific request by my colleague that the

24 witness was aware of instances where this had taken place, I believe he

25 has mentioned one, we had mentioned three of those yesterday, the three

1 areas or places which he had referred to us in relation to these matters.

2 JUDGE PARKER: Is that accepted, Ms. Issa?

3 MS. ISSA: If I can just clarify, Your Honour, what the difficulty

4 is. It is one thing to say in the general format that he knows of several

5 cases where this had taken place and he lists a number of places. It's

6 quite another to say that he was sent there by the president to inform him

7 about what was going on in all these locations.

8 [Trial Chamber confers]

9 JUDGE PARKER: We will receive this evidence, Mr. Mettraux, but if

10 it is the case that Ms. Issa is in difficulty with the notice, it may that

11 there will have to be some deferral of cross-examination on this issue.

12 The need for disclosure is a need that requires a more adequate

13 notice of something as significant as this than it appears to have been

14 given on this occasion.

15 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, we fully understand this point and I

16 believe we sent yesterday a very large proofing note which gave a great

17 deal of information to our colleagues about information which we believed

18 was not already obvious from the very lengthy statement that was provided

19 by Mr. Keskovski in relation to his expected evidence and we believe we

20 have given a great deal of information. The question for us is how much

21 we can then explore in evidence in chief. But we have that in mind, Your

22 Honour, and we'll try to proceed with caution.

23 And I see the time, Your Honour.

24 JUDGE PARKER: Very well. We will have the first break now and

25 resume at quarter past 4.00.

1 --- Recess taken at 3.46 p.m.

2 --- On resuming at 4.17 p.m.

3 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Mr. Mettraux.

4 MR. METTRAUX: Thank you, Your Honour, and we have been able to

5 locate the document, thanks to our colleague from the Prosecution and I'm

6 grateful. This is Rule 65 ter 09.1, please.

7 Q. And, Mr. Keskovski, if it is easier for you, this is also the

8 document that is under tab number 3 of your binder.

9 Do you recognise this document, Mr. Keskovski?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And do you know who the author of that document is?

12 A. Yes. It is I.

13 Q. And you did it, didn't you, during an interview with the Office of

14 the Prosecutor. Is that correct?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And can you explain briefly what this diagram represents?

17 A. Yes, I can. However, if I may have a look at my drawing, the

18 diagram that I've drawn.

19 MR. METTRAUX: Could the handmade drawing be shown to the witness,

20 please. Thank you.

21 Q. Could you explain briefly, Mr. Keskovski, what this diagram

22 represents?

23 A. This is a diagram of the manner of organisation which is presented

24 in diagram form as to how the security services of the president of the

25 Republic, Mr. Boris Trajkovski, functioned while I was head of his

1 security.

2 Q. And that would cover the period of August of 2001. Is that

3 correct?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And could you perhaps briefly describe the subsectors which made

6 up your -- the security sector of the president?

7 A. The security section for the president was reformed in the course

8 of 2000, following the suggestions of officers of the US Secret Service

9 who were in the Republic of Macedonia in 2000. We had two professional

10 training with them related to providing security for high officials, and

11 for protection operations for VIPs and by the counter-intelligence

12 training group of the US. This is a diagram made on the basis of the

13 consultations we had with them, in the course of 2000 and it is organised

14 in the following manner.

15 At the top, we have the chief of security. Further down in the

16 diagram are the two deputies, members of the Ministry of Interior. On the

17 right side of the diagram is the assistant or so to say my deputy from the

18 army of the Republic of Macedonia. Vertically under my position, the

19 diagram branches into several sections or units, the section for the

20 personal security of the president, the physical security, then the second

21 advance section, then the third drivers section, the fourth is the section

22 for the protection of the family, and the fifth is the section of 24-hour

23 duty, in front of and in the cabinet of the president of the Republic of

24 Macedonia.

25 The diagram on the right-hand side under the ARM assistant

1 branches out into three different units: The SWAT unit, a snipers team

2 for anti-sniper activity, and the third are the guards at the residence of

3 the president of the Republic of Macedonia.

4 Further down, at the lowest level of this diagram, we can see that

5 the personal security has four shifts, which include an eight-hour shift.

6 Q. Well, let's stop there for just a minute, Mr. Keskovski. There's

7 a number of questions I would like to ask you at this stage.

8 You've indicated that there was an army assistant which headed

9 three different department or subsectors and what I would like to ask you

10 is apart from the members of the army in those three subsectors, SWAT,

11 sniper and guard, were members of the Ministry of Defence also included in

12 the other subsectors in your section or sector?

13 A. Yes. I wanted to present this structure later, but since you ask,

14 as it was written in the document which you showed me with the president's

15 order, ten of the members of the special units of the army of the Republic

16 of Macedonia were also in the personal -- were engaged in the personal

17 security of the president of the Republic in these four shifts and, in

18 part, in the advance section which was part of the president security, as

19 civilians. As civilians. The persons shown on the right-hand side of the

20 diagram were in uniform.

21 Q. And by -- as civilians you mean that they were wearing civilian

22 clothes. Is that correct?

23 A. Yes, civilian clothing.

24 Q. Can I ask you to look at the middle right-hand side of the

25 document. There is an arrow which lead to the name of Johan Tarculovski.

1 Could you state what you were indicating with that arrow and the name of

2 Mr. Tarculovski?

3 A. As far as I can recall, I was requested by the investigator to

4 draw the diagram of the section and to mark the position of Mr. Johan

5 Tarculovski and where he carried out his tasks.

6 Q. And perhaps to assist us, Mr. Keskovski, are you able to read the

7 marking that is made within the square to which the arrow has been linked?

8 A. It reads "first lady."

9 Q. And was that the section to which Mr. Tarculovski worked at that

10 time, including in August of 2001?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And perhaps to ask you about your own position. What was your

13 position on that diagram at the time, in August of 2001?

14 A. I was the chief of the sector -- or the section for security of

15 the president, which is at the upper most part of this diagram.

16 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, we'd seek to tender this document.

17 I'm told it's also been uploaded in another format but this is in effect

18 the same document. We will have to seek leave as well to add it to our 65

19 ter. This was the second document that did not appear on our 65 ter list

20 and perhaps for Your Honours' full information this document was annexed

21 as annex B, I believe, to the OTP statement taken by the Prosecutor of

22 Mr. Keskovski.

23 JUDGE PARKER: Leave to add to the list will be granted and it

24 will be received as an exhibit.

25 THE REGISTRAR: And that would be Exhibit 1D317, Your Honours.

1 MR. METTRAUX:

2 Q. Mr. Keskovski, going out of this structure and into the Ministry

3 of Interior, could you tell who was your immediate superior at the time,

4 in August of 2001? Can you recall that?

5 A. In August 2001, my direct superior was Mr. Gacovski.

6 Q. And do you recall perhaps what the position or the title that

7 Mr. Gacovski had at that time?

8 A. Yes. He was assistant to the minister for security of persons and

9 facilities.

10 Q. And do you know who appointed him or who selected him for that

11 position?

12 A. Yes. He was appointed by the government of the Republic of

13 Macedonia.

14 Q. And did you receive orders or instructions in relation to the

15 functioning and the work of your sector from Mr. Gacovski?

16 A. No.

17 Q. Did you ever report to Mr. Gacovski about the activities of your

18 sector?

19 A. No.

20 Q. In August of 2001, do you recall who would have been the superior

21 of Mr. Gacovski in the structure of the ministry?

22 A. Yes. This was the director for public security, Mr. Goran

23 Mitevski and the minister of the interior, Mr. Ljube Boskoski.

24 Q. Well, let me ask you first then about Mr. Mitevski, if I may.

25 Did you receive orders or instructions from Mr. Mitevski in August

1 of 2001 or early, or later, for that matter, in relation to the work and

2 functioning of your sector?

3 A. No.

4 Q. And turning now to the minister and I will ask you about the two

5 ministers. Did you ever receive any orders from Minister Dimovska or her

6 successor, Mr. Boskoski, about the work of your sector?

7 A. Minister Dimovska requested once that I carry out an order, while

8 Mr. Boskoski never issued an order to me.

9 Q. And perhaps I'll ask you, can you recall what that order of

10 Minister Dimovska was?

11 A. It was at the beginning of 2000 when Ms. Dimovska was appointed

12 minister of the interior. She called me in her cabinet and her office and

13 issued me an order to submit reports on the work of the section on

14 security of the president of the Republic of Macedonia with reports on

15 movements, contacts, and meetings that were held in the office of the

16 president of the Republic of Macedonia.

17 Q. And did you carry out that order?

18 A. At that very meeting, I told the minister of the interior that I

19 would have to speak personally to President Trajkovski about this order.

20 After my talk with him, he issued an order to me not to act on the order

21 of the minister, not to send reports regarding his work in general.

22 Q. And which of the two orders did you obey, Mr. Keskovski, the order

23 of Ms. Dimovska or the order of the president?

24 A. As I already said, I carried out the order of the president of the

25 Republic of Macedonia.

1 Q. And in the course of your work, the work of your sector that is,

2 did you at any time receive orders from the president?

3 A. Yes. On a daily basis, I received various orders from the

4 president.

5 Q. And did you receive orders from anyone else in relation to the

6 work and activities of your sector?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Let me go back to the internal functioning of your sector. We've

9 seen a diagram or sort of map of that sector. I'd like to ask you and you

10 have already explained on whose advice you had set it up in that fashion.

11 But could you say who was responsible to decide on the internal

12 functioning and structuring of your sector?

13 A. I was.

14 Q. And who was responsible to decide on the distribution of tasks,

15 let's say who was to do what within that section or sector?

16 A. I was.

17 MR. METTRAUX: Can the registry please bring up what is Rule 65

18 ter 1D1138.3.

19 Q. And, Mr. Keskovski, this would be under tab 4 of your binder.

20 MR. METTRAUX: And I'd ask the registry once again to go to page

21 1D00-9269, please.

22 Q. Mr. Keskovski, as you will see, this is the same letter as I

23 showed a little bit earlier. But I'd like this time for you to locate the

24 third bulleted paragraph in that document.

25 And I think that would be a bit further down the page in the

1 English. Thank you.

2 There is -- the second sentence of that paragraph, Mr. Keskovski,

3 reads as follows, and I will read it out for in the English language. It

4 says: "The internal organisation of the unit's work and the allocation of

5 particular tasks fell under the competence of the unit's head."

6 Would that statement be consistent with what you've said a moment

7 ago, Mr. Keskovski?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And at the time when you acted as head or chief of the sector for

10 security of the president, did you regard the president as your superior?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And were there any times or occasions when the president would

13 give direct orders to yourself or to members of your sector?

14 A. On a daily basis.

15 Q. And --

16 MS. ISSA: Excuse me, Your Honour.

17 JUDGE PARKER: Ms. Issa.

18 MS. ISSA: Once again, Your Honour, I apologise for interrupting

19 and rising, but we've heard some quite extensive evidence regarding orders

20 given by the president to the witness and now he is talking about orders

21 given to others by the president. None of this material appears in the

22 proofing note nor in the Rule 65 ter (G) summary. So once again we're in

23 a position where we have not had adequate notice.

24 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, we'll take issue with the suggestions

25 of our colleague that they don't have adequate notice of this matter.

1 There is extensive discussion in the statement of Mr. Keskovski of the

2 organisation of the work, of the structure, of the people that were

3 mentioned, of who was giving order to whom, of the policy on hiring, the

4 policy on all sorts of matter, Your Honour, that relates to the

5 functioning of the sector in question, including as we've indicated the

6 diagram which was prepared by the witness. It seems hard to believe that

7 the Prosecution would be taken aback by questions which are being asked,

8 Your Honour, about the way in which this department or this sector was

9 functioning. We understand it to have been one of the many purpose and

10 reason for the calling of this witness.

11 JUDGE PARKER: Ms. Issa, is there anything further?

12 MS. ISSA: Well, Your Honour, it is one thing to address matters

13 relating to the structure of the sector and how it was structured within

14 the Ministry of Interior, for example, and that of course is in the

15 statement. But the critical point relating to the issue of orders and the

16 extent of those orders and perhaps the content of the orders, which I

17 anticipate, or I'm guessing we may get to, there is nothing about that in

18 the statement.

19 MR. METTRAUX: Well, Your Honour, perhaps briefly I will indicate

20 that at paragraph 5 of yesterday's proofing note we indicated, among other

21 things, that concerning the role of the president vis-a-vis the police,

22 Mr. Keskovski was a witness to several instances when the president gave

23 orders directly to members of the police (and other members of the

24 Ministry of Interior, including members of his sector and to the minister

25 himself).

1 JUDGE PARKER: Please continue, Mr. Mettraux.

2 MR. METTRAUX: Thank you, Your Honour.

3 Q. Mr. Keskovski, I apologise. When you received such orders from

4 the president, would you inform the hierarchy in the Ministry of Interior

5 that you had received such orders?

6 A. No.

7 Q. I'd now like to turn to something slightly different, which is the

8 composition, if you want, of your sector and questions of hiring or taking

9 people into this sector.

10 Did the president ever give you the name or names of persons whom

11 he wished to be taken in your sector?

12 A. Yes, in continuity.

13 Q. And did that include members of his family, for instance?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Do you have an example to give of other people that were close to

16 him?

17 A. Yes. His nephew was employed in the sector for securing of the

18 president in 1994 at the request of the president.

19 Q. And did the president made other requests that you can recall

20 about particular -- particular person whom he wished --

21 A. If you will allow me, in the interpretation it is stated 1994.

22 Q. And the correct date was, Mr. Keskovski?

23 A. 1999.

24 Q. I'm grateful for that.

25 Are you aware of any other cases where the president requested or

1 demanded that a particular person should join the sector?

2 A. As I already said, this happened in continuity. At the request of

3 the president, seven to eight persons were encompassed. Some were taken

4 from outside, some were transferred from within, from the Ministry of

5 Interior, and from the army of the Republic of Macedonia.

6 Q. And did that include any person that were or could be seen as

7 close from the president such as fellow church-goers, neighbours, friends,

8 family members? Any sort of person of that sort that you can recall?

9 A. Yes. An acquaintance from his church, Mr. Tadues, was employed.

10 He came from the outside. He was not employed, that is to say, at the

11 Ministry of Interior so he was directly employed in our sector. Then an

12 employee from the police was transferred at the request of the president

13 in our section. He was neighbour of the president. Then Mr. Tarculovski

14 was engaged at the request of the president personally. Mr. Stojkov,

15 Goran was employed from the outside at the personal request of the

16 president, and the commander engaged from the army of the Republic of

17 Macedonia in 2001 with an order of the president and he was his close

18 neighbour from Strumice. He was appointed as my assistant. At that time

19 he was engaged in the army of the Republic of Macedonia.

20 Q. Well, let me then ask you a follow-up question about the request

21 of the president to have Mr. Tarculovski join the sector. Do you remember

22 when that was approximately?

23 A. This was in the year 2000.

24 Q. And can you recall or recount the circumstances under which the

25 president requested of you that you should take Mr. Tarculovski in the

1 sector?

2 A. The president did not request of me; rather, he ordered me to have

3 Mr. Tarculovski transferred from the sector of security for the prime

4 minister to our services, that is to say, the personal security of the

5 president.

6 Q. And did the president provide any explanation for his order to you

7 to take Mr. Tarculovski to the sector? Did he tell you why he wanted him

8 to join?

9 A. During one visit to the office of the prime minister,

10 Mr. Tarculovski was working in the reception unit, and the president

11 noticed him then. He asked him why he was where he was, and he responded

12 that this was his work post now. The president ordered me to immediately

13 transfer him under any circumstances since they knew each other for over

14 five years and Mr. Tarculovski had worked at the reception desk of the

15 political party of VRMO-DPMNE, the party where Boris Trajkovski was a

16 member of the executive committee; therefore, they had known each other

17 well.

18 Q. Just to clarify this. Is it your understanding and as far as you

19 can tell, is that how Mr. Tarculovski and President Trajkovski came to

20 know each other? Is that through the political activities of both? Is

21 that correct?

22 A. One can say this.

23 Q. And perhaps to complete this issue of the hiring. In your

24 experience, did Minister Boskoski in any way influence the selection of

25 employees in your sector?

1 A. No, not at all.

2 Q. Now, you've explained earlier that within your sector there were a

3 number of subsectors and we've seen what they are. I'd like to ask you

4 who decided on which particular member of your sector would go into what

5 particular subsector. Who would decide that?

6 A. I did.

7 Q. And did you sometimes consult with the president about these

8 matters?

9 A. Yes. He usually had his wishes and orders regarding who among the

10 members of the security of the president would take which positions and

11 also who would be removed from the security.

12 Q. And did he ever make any particular suggestions, recommendations

13 or order, in whatever form, in relation to the sector that was dealing

14 with the security of the family, the first lady and the children?

15 A. Would you please repeat the question?

16 Q. Yes, I apologise. I wasn't very clear.

17 Did the president made any suggestions about what members of your

18 sector should be assigned to the subsector that was dealing with the

19 security of his family?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. And did he make any particular suggestion as to the assignment of

22 Mr. Tarculovski?

23 A. Yes. The president personally appointed, if I may say so, he

24 nominated for the appointment all security members that were working on

25 the security of the first lady and the security of -- of president's

1 children. All those inspectors were the individuals that the president

2 hand-picked, since he believed that this sensitive post should be occupied

3 by individuals that he knew well.

4 Q. And following on this, did you ever see the president with Mr. --

5 with President Trajkovski. I'm sorry, did you ever see Mr. Tarculovski

6 with the President Trajkovski during his time in your sector?

7 A. Yes, of course.

8 Q. Are you able to quantify the number of time which you might have

9 seen the two of them together during that period?

10 A. Many times. I couldn't give you a precise number.

11 Q. Did you also sometimes see Mr. Tarculovski at the house of the

12 president, or did that never happen?

13 A. Mr. Tarculovski, when performing his duties, was regularly present

14 there, and I have seen him several times in the living-room of the

15 president, in his residence.

16 Q. And this may be a difficult question, but as far as you could

17 tell, would it appear that Mr. Tarculovski was a person that the president

18 trusted?

19 A. Judging by the communication manner and also the answer to your

20 previous question, I came to the living-room of the presidential

21 residence --

22 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction, the only individuals

23 personally invited by the president of the Republic of Macedonia or his

24 wife, the first lady had access to the living-room of the president.

25 A. As far as I remember, and I know that -- I think I know well that

1 I only had access to the private residential parts of the residence of the

2 president, in addition to Mr. Tarculovski, as far as I know.

3 MR. METTRAUX:

4 Q. So would that suggest a particular level of trust vis-a-vis the

5 president?

6 MS. ISSA: Your Honour. I'm objecting to that question.

7 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Ms. Issa.

8 MS. ISSA: It's incredibly leading on a fairly important point.

9 JUDGE PARKER: Technically so. The answer is virtually

10 self-evident though.

11 Mr. Mettraux, please carry on.

12 MR. METTRAUX: May I ask the question, Your Honour?

13 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Mr. Mettraux.

14 MR. METTRAUX:

15 Q. Mr. Keskovski, would that suggest a particular level of trust

16 vis-a-vis the president? And I was talking of the level of trust between

17 Mr. Tarculovski and the president.

18 A. I believe that from everything that I said thus far, it is evident

19 that Mr. Tarculovski was one of the members of the security sector that

20 enjoyed high confidence of the President Trajkovski and the first lady,

21 Mrs. Vilma Trajkovska.

22 Q. Let me ask you about something slightly different now,

23 Mr. Keskovski, and that relates to the means of communications that were

24 at the disposal of your sector at the time. Could you say what means of

25 communication or what facilities you used to communicate between the

1 various members of your sector?

2 A. The communication between the members of the sector for security

3 of the president went via several instruments, land line, special

4 telephone network, communication network, radio station, Motorola, with

5 its own channel, and mobile phones that were available at that time.

6 Q. And asking specifically about yourself, Mr. Keskovski, do you

7 recall how many mobile phones you had or used in August of 2001, if more

8 than one?

9 A. I had two all the time.

10 Q. And can you remember - I know it's quite some time now - are you

11 able to recall perhaps what numbers you might have used during that time,

12 August of 2001?

13 A. As far as I can recall, those were 070344044 and I believe I had

14 another phone number which was 358178. And the prefix is the same, 070.

15 Q. And do you know a number 070360000? Are you familiar with this

16 number?

17 A. Yes. That was my number as well.

18 MR. METTRAUX: And perhaps I'll ask the registry to bring up what

19 is Rule 65 ter 1D1138.2, please. That would be page 1D00-9263.

20 Q. Mr. Keskovski, this is a list of telephone numbers that was

21 provided at some point by the Ministry of Interior to the Office of the

22 Prosecutor and it contains a number of telephone numbers.

23 MR. METTRAUX: And I would ask the registry to go to the second

24 page of that document, please.

25 I apologise --

1 A. Where do I find it here?

2 MR. METTRAUX: I apologise. This is tab 6 bis, please. 6 bis.

3 Q. Let me ask you this as a general question first, Mr. Keskovski.

4 How did it work in practice the mobile phones that were given to your

5 sector? Were they given to you or were they given to individual members

6 or did that vary? How did it work?

7 A. Most of the phone numbers were registered in my name but there

8 were also phone numbers that were registered in the names of other

9 individuals from the sector for security of the president.

10 Q. Well, if I ask you to look down that list of number, Mr.

11 Keskovski, under number 25 and 26. There are two different telephone

12 numbers which are 070279418 and 070279419 and they are registered under

13 your name.

14 Are you able to say who, if you can recall, used those numbers in

15 August of 2001? Can you recall that?

16 A. These numbers, or most of them, were numbers used by the entire

17 group for security of the president and across various units of that we

18 already defined on the diagram and that they were on a permanent rotation

19 or shifting. I really couldn't remember all persons who used those

20 numbers.

21 Q. Well, can we please look at the next page, please.

22 First I'll ask to you look perhaps at number 34. There's a number

23 and a person by the name of Aco Mladenov. Can you see that?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Are you able to say what job or function or role Mr. Mladenov had

1 in August of 2001?

2 A. Mr. Mladenov, Aco, was the personal driver of the president of the

3 Republic of Macedonia, Mr. Boris Trajkovski.

4 Q. And if you can now look further down the page under number 50

5 there's another number, it's 070358178, and it's again under your name.

6 Is it one of the numbers that you've given a moment ago as one of those

7 numbers which you used in that period?

8 A. Yes. And as far as I can remember, that's one of the numbers that

9 I have used.

10 Q. And did the president sometimes use the phones of his body-guards

11 or security people, including yours?

12 A. Yes. That happened every day.

13 Q. And perhaps I should have been more precise in my question. Did

14 you ever use your mobile phone?

15 A. Yes, always. And it happened every day.

16 Q. And did he sometime used the telephone number, or the phone, I

17 should say, of other members of the security sector?

18 A. Of course, yes.

19 Q. Mr. Keskovski, I'd like to read to you a passage from the

20 transcript of this trial. It's at page 5550 and the evidence was given by

21 Mr. Zoran Trajkovski.

22 First I should ask you this: Do you know who Mr. Zoran Trajkovski

23 is?

24 A. Yes. I believe that he is the head of security for Mr. Minister,

25 Ljube Boskoski. At that time.

1 Q. And at page 5550 he said this, the question was: "And this

2 happened at times when the president would ask for the minister or when

3 the minister had to call in to the president. Is it correct?"

4 A. "Well, yes. Our practice was that one of the person who took care

5 of his security had the mobile phone, had his mobile phone so when the

6 president or the prime minister called the minister would speak of this --

7 with these persons. Oftentimes Keskovski, Zlatko, yes, requested the

8 minister when the president had done so," and there's a further question.

9 "That would in fact be my next question to you. It was usual

10 practice that the minister or the president or the prime minister not have

11 their mobile phone on their person but that they be with their security

12 and through the security the other security will be contacted or directly

13 the president or the minister. Is that correct?"

14 And the answer of Mr. Trajkovski was: "Yes, this is correct."

15 Would that description given by Mr. Trajkovski be consistent with

16 your experience as the chief of security of the president of the Republic?

17 A. Yes. That was the mode of communication between the institutions

18 when they're outside of their cabinets.

19 Q. And following on that, then, were there cases when people would

20 call your mobile phone or your phone number with a view to communicate

21 with the president?

22 A. My mobile phone number was the main communication channel for the

23 president when he was outside of his cabinet, of his office. My phone

24 number would be called by an entire spectrum of persons ranging from

25 private acquaintances of the president and even public representatives,

1 including international organisations, including presidents of states,

2 ministers for internal affairs or foreign affairs of other states, NATO

3 Secretary-General and many, many other individuals who wanted to speak to

4 President Trajkovski personally, because in their communication he always

5 left my phone number as his direct contact number.

6 Q. And would that happen? Have you been a witness to the president

7 giving orders on the phone?

8 A. Yes, of course.

9 Q. We'll come back perhaps to that a bit later, Mr. Keskovski.

10 But I'd like to ask you about a very specific order. Were you

11 ever the witness of Mr. Trajkovski, President Trajkovski, giving an order

12 to Mr. Boskoski?

13 A. Yes, several times.

14 Q. And can you recall any particular instance or incident when that

15 happened?

16 A. Yes. I recall the event related to cease-fire during the army

17 action that involved the police as well at Aracinovo. I think that -- or

18 as far as I remember, it was on the 23rd or 24th of June, 2001. The

19 president called me to his office, and Mr. Ambassador was there, Peter

20 Feith. At that moment the ambassador was the acting ambassador of NATO to

21 the Republic of Macedonia. He asked me to give him my phone and he asked

22 me to establish immediately the contact with Mr. Ljube Boskoski, so I did

23 call Boskoski's number and I gave the phone to the president. He told the

24 minister to immediately, at this very moment, terminate any activity

25 related to the action that was taking place on the territory of Aracinovo

1 village near Skopje, and that I was personally in charge to take the

2 ambassador to the Hotel Bellevue for a meeting with the minister, Ljube

3 Boskoski, head of the General Staff, and the defence minister,

4 Mr. Buckovski.

5 Q. Well, as a preliminary matter --

6 A. That was one such example. The next time I could remember this

7 happened was precisely on the date 25th of June, 2001, and I can be

8 specific about it because this is the birth date of the late president,

9 Trajkovski. There was unrest in front of the parliament building. There

10 was a meeting inside the parliament of the Republic of Macedonia between

11 the president of the state, prime minister, and all political parties that

12 were involved or represented in the parliament.

13 Since I, learning what the situation was outside in front of the

14 parliament building, I suggested to the president that this meeting should

15 be terminated due to security reasons. The president together with the

16 prime minister agreed. They terminated the meeting and went towards the

17 cabinet together with me, towards the cabinet of the president of the

18 Republic of Macedonia and then from the windows they were observing the

19 development of the situation in front of the parliament building, the that

20 were taking place there, that is.

21 He told me that I should phone the minister immediately and I

22 phoned the minister. He spoke to him personally and ordered the minister

23 of the interior to come immediately in front of the parliament building

24 and calm the already outraged crowd down and to resolve the situation

25 around the parliament and the unrest in front of the parliament building.

1 Q. Going back for a minute to the first example that you gave, that

2 of Aracinovo. Do you know whether the police actually pulled out as

3 ordered by the president?

4 A. Yes. All activities related to the action in Aracinovo were

5 terminated immediately. Both the police units and the army units

6 terminated the activities because it was actually an action of the army of

7 the Republic of Macedonia fully.

8 Q. And let me perhaps read another passage from the transcript on

9 that point.

10 This is from page 9118, it's the 7th of February of 2008, and it's

11 from a Defence witness, who said this, Mr. Keskovski. He said: "For

12 clarification, immediately in the days before, actually, the Ministry of

13 Interior took action to seize control over the village of Aracinovo and

14 had clashes with the terrorists who were located there at that time. When

15 the clashes started an order was issued. I believe that it was an order

16 issued by the president, the late president of the state and probably

17 pressured by the international community" -- "international public." I

18 apologise.

19 Would that statement, namely that the order had come from the

20 president, be consistent with what you've just said, Mr. Keskovski?

21 A. Yes.

22 MR. METTRAUX: Can the registry please bring what is now admitted

23 as Exhibit 1D211.

24 Q. Mr. Keskovski, this would be under tab 14, 1-4, of your binder if

25 it is more practical.

1 This is a record of a meeting that was arranged by the Macedonian

2 authorities and it relates to the exhumation near the town of Tetovo. It

3 relates to the events of Neprosteno and the date of the meeting is 10

4 November 2001, 1300 hours, it took place in the assembly hall of the

5 parliament. And among those present were President Trajkovski, Ljube

6 Boskoski, Goran Mitevski, Stavre Dzikov, and a number of others.

7 Can you see that? This would be tab 14, Mr. Keskovski. 1-4.

8 A. Yes, I see it now.

9 Q. And I'd ask you to turn to page 3 of that document, please.

10 And I would ask the registry to scroll down to the bottom of the

11 page, please.

12 As you will see, Mr. Keskovski, it talks about the return of the

13 police and in particular an operation that is -- that relates to the event

14 of Neprosteno.

15 And if we can go to the bottom of page 3, please. Thank you.

16 I'll read out to you a short passage there which says

17 this: "President Trajkovski became agitated and spoke of a previous

18 meeting that he had with Mr. Jennes and others on the 21st October 2001."

19 Perhaps I'll ask you first. Can you recall now who Mr. Jennes is

20 or was in August of 2001?

21 A. This is Mr. Jennes. Representative of the OSCE in Macedonia.

22 Q. And then it goes on to say the following: "He spoke," that's the

23 president, "spoke of a plan that he had submitted concerning the

24 introduction of a gradual increase of police presence over a prolonged

25 period of time."

1 Mr. Keskovski, were you aware that such a plan had been submitted

2 by the president in relation to the gradual increase of police presence in

3 the country? Is that something that is known to you?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And can you simply indicate how you came to know about this?

6 A. It was immediately after the signing of the Framework Agreement,

7 which provided for the return of the police forces in all of the territory

8 of the Republic of Macedonia and the president was implementing the

9 Framework Agreement, which was signed in August 2001.

10 Q. And perhaps if we can turn to the next page, please.

11 I'll ask you to focus on the top of the page, please, and if I can

12 ask the registry to scroll up a bit. Thank you.

13 There's a paragraph starting with the words: "He ordered

14 Mr. Boskoski ..."

15 Can you see that? I'll read it out to you. In the original

16 English it said this: "He ordered," that's the president, "he ordered

17 Mr. Boskoski to increase police patrols to issue them armoured vehicle and

18 body armour immediately and for them (police) to commence operations in

19 the area tomorrow, Sunday, 11 November 2001."

20 Then it goes on to say: "He stated to Mr. Boskoski:

21 'Mr. Minister, you will issue the police with all their powers now' and

22 stated, 'I am the president of this country and that is that.'"

23 Is that consistent, Mr. Keskovski, with the orders which you saw

24 or heard the president give to Mr. Boskoski?

25 A. Yes.

1 Q. I'd now wish to turn to the events of the village of Ljuboten,

2 starting with the 10th of August of 2001. That would be a Friday.

3 Can you recall now, Mr. Keskovski, where you were that morning,

4 the morning of the 10th of August, 2001?

5 A. The morning of 10th of August, 2001, we started from Ohrid towards

6 Skopje.

7 Q. And when you say "we," Mr. Keskovski, who are you referring to?

8 A. I'm referring to the president of the Republic of Macedonia, who

9 was accompanied by us, his security detail.

10 Q. And can you perhaps recall what you and the president had been

11 doing in Ohrid during that time, or prior to that time?

12 A. This was at the end of the negotiations leading to the Framework

13 Agreement. They lasted almost 30 days.

14 Q. And those negotiations had taken place in the city of Ohrid. Is

15 that correct?

16 A. The negotiations took place at the villa, the residence of the

17 president of the Republic of Macedonia in Ohrid.

18 Q. And during the morning of the 10th - that's Friday, the 10th of

19 August of 2001 - did you receive any information at some stage about

20 something that happened in Ljubotenski Bacila?

21 A. The morning of the 10th, I received information from the newly

22 appointed Chief of Staff of the army of Republic of Macedonia,

23 Mr. Stamboliski that an attack had been carried out on a motor vehicle

24 belonging to the army of the Republic of Macedonia in the area of

25 Ljubotenski Bacila, causing the death of several members of the army of

1 the Republic of Macedonia and causing the injury to others. It was said

2 that the vehicle had stepped on a mine.

3 Q. And was the president present in your company when you received

4 that information?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And can you recall -- I mean, perhaps could you tell on how you

7 received that information? Was it by phone or by other means?

8 A. This information was received through -- by telephone. The chief

9 of the General Staff Mr. Stamboliski called me, and I gave the telephones

10 over so that he may directly inform the president of the events of that

11 morning.

12 Q. And can you recall now what the reaction of the president was to

13 the news about what had happened in Ljubotenski Bacila?

14 A. In view of the fact that Ljubotenski Bacila happened on the 10th

15 of August, 2001, two years -- two days before, on the 8th, we had

16 Karpalak, where about ten members of the army of the Republic of Macedonia

17 died, which was also the reason for the replacement of Mr. Petrevski, the

18 previous commander in chief.

19 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction, the chief of the

20 General Staff.

21 A. The president was angry of the renewed attack over the Macedonian

22 security forces and in view of the fact of what had been accomplished

23 during the negotiations for the Framework Agreement.

24 Q. Let's take it one step at a time. You've given a lot of

25 information here.

1 First in relation to the incident in Karpalak, perhaps, do you

2 recall whether a statement was issued by the president or the security

3 council of the Republic of Macedonia in relation to that particular attack

4 of the NLA?

5 A. Yes. There was a statement. The security council meeting took

6 place in Ohrid, in the residence of the president.

7 Q. And do you recall if a similar statement was then issued by the

8 president or the security council in relation to the attack in Ljubotenski

9 Bacila?

10 A. Yes. The two were similar in content.

11 MR. METTRAUX: And can I ask perhaps the registry to bring up what

12 is Exhibit 1D249, please.

13 Q. This would be under tab 10 of your binder, Mr. Keskovski.

14 Mr. Keskovski, this is a report by the Skopje radio Macedonia.

15 It's dated the 10 of August 2001 and its title is FYROM security council

16 convenes 10 August, supports "firm action," and I would like to read it to

17 you briefly.

18 It says this: "The security council of the Republic of Macedonia

19 held a meeting which focussed on the country's current security and

20 political situation and which resulted in the adoption of a number of

21 specific conclusions.

22 "The security council paid tribute to the Macedonian security

23 forces servicemen who were killed near the Skopje village of Ljubanci and

24 expressed deep regret and sympathy to their families.

25 "At last night's meeting the council concluded that the firm

1 action should resume to eliminate any threat to the security forces and to

2 the citizens of the Republic of Macedonia."

3 Would that reflect approximately the recollection which you have

4 of the statement or statements that were made in response to those

5 attacks?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And as far as you could tell from your interactions with the

8 president, would that also be consistent with the position of the

9 president himself?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And perhaps I should ask you this directly. Did you hear the

12 president comment about these particular attacks in your presence, either

13 or both of them?

14 A. Yes. In his conversation with the Chief of the General

15 Staff he ordered that immediate orders be taken for eliminating all

16 terrorist groupations that are active on the territory of Macedonia

17 because one of the items that was agreed upon was to have the

18 Macedonian -- Macedonian security forces return that was disrupted by the

19 Albanian terrorist groups that were active in the Republic of Macedonia

20 and for them to return to the positions of the 5th of August.

21 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, I see the time. Is it ...

22 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you, Mr. Mettraux. We will have the next

23 break now and resume at 6.00.

24 --- Recess taken at 5.30 p.m.

25 --- On resuming at 6.01 p.m.

1 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Mr. Mettraux.

2 MR. METTRAUX: Thank you, Your Honour.

3 Could the witness please be shown what is now Exhibit 1D250,

4 please.

5 Q. Mr. Keskovski, this is tab 11 of your binder.

6 Just for your general information, Mr. Keskovski, this document

7 was given to the Defence of Mr. Boskoski by an embassy here in The Hague

8 and it, as you will see it records a particular meeting, and the subject

9 matter is called Macedonia, and if you look at the bottom of the page it

10 refers to a farewell call on Trajkovski. And it says that he, Trajkovsk,

11 intends to go on with signature of Framework Agreement on 13 August. Can

12 you see that? It's on the first page at the bottom of the first page,

13 Mr. Keskovski.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And if I can ask the registry to turn to the second page, the next

16 page, please.

17 I'd like to draw your attention to paragraph 3 of this document

18 under the subheading Trajkovski, and I will read a passage of this

19 paragraph to you. It says this: "I paid a farewell call on the

20 president, who was in somber mood. He said that he fully intended to

21 continue with signature of the Framework Agreement on 13 August. That and

22 NATO deployment were the only hope. He ascribed the present fighting to

23 an NLA desire to establish new lines of control and an effective partition

24 line before NATO arrived."

25 And it goes on to say: "I asked him about the phrase energetic

1 offensive action in the National Security Council communique of 8 August,

2 had this been wise? He said that the only intent was to get the NLA out

3 of positions which were new since the cease-fire of 6 July."

4 Well, perhaps let me make a pause here. Is -- let me ask you this

5 first: Can you recall the visits of this -- of an ambassador who came to

6 discuss this matter with the president?

7 A. I can't recall the visit precisely, but I know Mr. Dickinson

8 personally. He often came to visit Mr. Trajkovski and I want to object to

9 the translation from the previous session. It was written 5th of August,

10 instead of 5th of July, in my statement.

11 Q. Well, I'm grateful for that, for the correction, Mr. Keskovski.

12 And further in relation to the summary or the report that is being

13 made in that document about the content of that meeting, would that

14 generally be consistent with your own observations or your own discussion

15 with the president about his mood and views at the time?

16 A. Yes. What you read out is what it is written.

17 Q. And would that be consistent with your own observations?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Then the document goes on to say this: "The Macedonians would

20 respect the cease-fire but it would be impossible to sell the Framework

21 Agreement to parliament while the NLA were continuing to push forward

22 without any response from the army or police."

23 And again let me ask you this: Is this particular statement or

24 view attributed to the president consistent with your own observation of

25 what Mr. Trajkovski said to you or to others at the time?

1 A. The position of the president during that period of time expressed

2 in my discussions with him regarding the situation and the Ohrid

3 negotiations was that the forces need to return to the positions of 5th of

4 the July, the positions agreed with NATO, specifically with Mr. Feith, so

5 that the Framework Agreement can be accepted by the population or by the

6 parliament of the Republic of Macedonia.

7 Q. And this general atmosphere and position of the president of the

8 Republic at the time, is that also something perhaps that you discussed

9 with the Office of the Prosecutor when they interviewed you?

10 A. Yes.

11 MR. METTRAUX: Could the witness please be shown what is Rule 65

12 ter 1D1249.

13 Q. Mr. Keskovski, this is tab number 1 of your binder, I apologise,

14 this may be easier for you. And I would ask you to go to page 9 of that

15 document, which would be page 1D00-9967.

16 A. Just a moment, it is not 11. 11 is something else.

17 Q. It would be under -- under tab number 1, Mr. Keskovski.

18 A. Yes, very well. This is what I heard in interpretation.

19 Q. And if I can ask you to go to page 9 of your statement, please,

20 and to focus on paragraph 4 -- 40, 4-0.

21 Do you have paragraph 40, categorise?

22 A. [In English] 40?

23 Q. 40.

24 A. [Interpretation] It was interpreted 4, 4. This is it why I

25 stopped at 4.

1 Yes, it's fine now.

2 Q. And if can you look at the last part of that particular paragraph,

3 there's sentence which starts with the words: "In that period of time,

4 the president was under pressure from the public because he was thought to

5 have failed to use the army appropriately in dealing with the terrorists."

6 Could you explain what you meant by that, Mr. Keskovski? What is

7 it you intend to tell the Prosecutor?

8 A. This statement means precisely what we discussed previously, that

9 after the 5th of July, in all possible ways, the terrorist groups

10 penetrated deep into the territory behind the line positioned by the

11 NATO. Since the return of fire and all other activities took place

12 infrequently, the public had - how should I put it? - a great deal of

13 criticism regarding the work of the president in deploying the army to

14 prevent such activities taking place from the 5th of July and until the

15 Framework Agreement signing.

16 It is precisely what we discussed about before you asked this

17 question.

18 Q. Okay. And then we will come, Mr. Keskovski, on the events of the

19 10, 11, and 12 of August, 2001. But, first, in your statement, the next

20 sentence reads: "Therefore, he," the president, "wanted to speak to the

21 major."

22 Can you explain what you meant by that and whether that sentence

23 is related to the previous one?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And can you explain how, in your mind, when you talked to the

1 Prosecutor, this was related?

2 A. Since it concerned specifically the actions in Ljuboten and the

3 order issued by the president regarding Ljuboten, I just explained the

4 personal attitude, position of the president and the measures he took in

5 relation to the Ljuboten order and the previously issued order on Radusa

6 that, however, was on the same day.

7 Q. So just to be clear on that point, in your mind when you talked to

8 the Prosecutor, the Office of the Prosecutor when you gave your statement,

9 the request of the president to speak to the major was a consequence of

10 the pressure you described that was under him at the time, or is it

11 something different?

12 A. No, not only because of the pressure, but as I said before,

13 because of his concern about the positions that were abandoned, those of

14 5th of July. And this also, in additional to the other things, led the

15 signing of the Framework Agreement under risk. It was planned for the

16 13th of August.

17 What you read and what I explained, these statement, the

18 conclusion of Mr. Dickinson, goes towards the same direction.

19 Q. And going backwards in time, a moment ago you also indicated that

20 the former army Chief of Staff, General Petrovski had been removed from

21 his position. Do you recall that?

22 A. Yes, I recall that.

23 Q. And do you know who gave the order to remove General Petrovski

24 from his position?

25 A. The president personally, Mr. Boris Trajkovski.

1 Q. And would you know why the president would have ordered the

2 dismissal or the replacement of General Petrovski from his position? Was

3 there any particular reason for that?

4 A. Yes. The reasons were, firstly, since insufficient measures were

5 undertaken to protect the convoy at Karpalak, where ten members of the

6 army were killed.

7 MS. ISSA: Your Honour, objecting to that question.

8 JUDGE PARKER: Ms. Issa. What is your objection?

9 MS. ISSA: Well, I object on the basis that it appears that the

10 witness is speculating.

11 JUDGE PARKER: It's not the question; it's the answer.

12 MS. ISSA: Yes.

13 MR. METTRAUX: I can clarify this, Your Honour.

14 JUDGE PARKER: Could you please.

15 MR. METTRAUX: Yes.

16 Q. Mr. Keskovski, how did you come to know of the fact that it was

17 the president that had decided on the removal of General Petrovski, if you

18 can indicate?

19 A. I learned this from conversation with the president himself,

20 because this dismissal took place in Ohrid. I had everyday communication

21 with the president regarding all issues acute at the moment. There is one

22 situation that I can describe at this moment, that was the president

23 checking up on General Petrovski and his work. From my phone number, he

24 ordered me to phone Mr. Petrovski, and he asked him whether there were any

25 actions in Tetovo on that specific date. General Petrovski answered yes,

1 we had acted today and we are acting at this very moment. Immediately

2 after that, the president requested that the commander of the Tetovo

3 garrison be called, who answered that he had not received an order to act

4 on that date. That was the decisive element for the replacement of -- or

5 dismissal of Mr. Petrovski from his duty and I was present during that

6 communication.

7 Q. I'm grateful for that, Mr. Keskovski.

8 After the events in Ljubotenski Bacila on the 10th of August of

9 2001, did you receive a call from Mr. Tarculovski?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And can you remember approximately when that was, both what day

12 that was and time, if you can recall?

13 A. That was on the 10th of August, 2001, in the morning of that date.

14 Q. And can you recall the reason why Mr. Tarculovski called you on

15 that day, the 10th of August of 2001?

16 A. Mr. Tarculovski phoned me and informed me that in the attack at

17 Ljubotenski Bacila, there were army members killed and that there was

18 someone close to him among those killed, and that he wanted to take a

19 leave from his post, from his working duties for several days. I

20 immediately informed the president, who conveyed his condolences to

21 Mr. Tarculovski and I invited him to come immediately to my office, when

22 he came to Skopje from Ohrid. And as far as I remember, this happened

23 on -- when we were travelling from -- between Skopje and Ohrid.

24 Q. Let's take things back one step at a time.

25 You've indicated, I believe, that you remember Mr. Tarculovski

1 calling you on the morning of the 10th. Then was there a subsequent call

2 between yourself and Mr. Tarculovski or between Mr. Tarculovski and the

3 president, or was that conversation taking place in a single conversation,

4 as far as you can recall?

5 A. Would you please clarify? Are you referring to a phone

6 conversation?

7 Q. Well, let me ask you in that way. You have indicated that

8 sometime you believe in the morning of the 10th of August of 2001

9 Mr. Tarculovski contacted you, asking, I believe, for days off because

10 members of his family had been killed or relative or I don't know the

11 exact term you used on this.

12 When did you inform the president of this matter?

13 A. Immediately. We were in a car, as I said, travelling from Ohrid

14 to Skopje.

15 Q. And what did the president say, if anything, to the information

16 that you gave him about that?

17 A. Yes. As I said, he [Realtime transcript read in error "I"]

18 expressed his condolences during the same conversation to Mr. Tarculovski

19 and he [Realtime transcript read in error "I"] invited him to come to

20 Skopje. When he arrives to Skopje, to come to the cabinet. And I also

21 confirmed the same, because we had a procedure if someone close to anyone

22 from the security of the president was killed during the crisis in

23 Macedonia in 2001.

24 Q. Just a matter of clarification, Mr. Keskovski, I'm in your hands

25 in that regard. The transcript says: As I said, he expressed his

1 condolences during the same conversation to Mr. Tarculovski and I invited

2 him to come to Skopje. Did you say that you invited him or that the

3 president invited him to come to Skopje?

4 A. We both gave him an order to come to the cabinet immediately after

5 the arrival to Skopje, because Mr. Tarculovski, together with the

6 remaining part of the security was still in Ohrid.

7 Q. And did Mr. Tarculovski at some stage come to the office, as you

8 had suggested?

9 A. Yes. That happened in the afternoon.

10 Q. Of the same day or of another day?

11 A. Of the same day. Same day, in the afternoon.

12 Q. And were you present when Mr. Tarculovski visited the office?

13 A. Yes. He came to see me first and then we went together to the

14 president.

15 Q. And as far as you can recall, what was said during the meeting

16 between Mr. Tarculovski, yourself, and the president?

17 A. The procedure, when someone close or some acquaintance or a

18 relative or someone who is a close acquaintance was killed during the

19 crisis in the Republic of Macedonia, so this is someone close to the

20 members of the security of the president, the president wished to express

21 the condolences personally. This is why we had the meeting that took

22 place in the cabinet.

23 During this meeting, President Trajkovski expressed his

24 condolences to Mr. Tarculovski, and ordered him to be in the region, to be

25 in Ljubanci, to be in that area, and to inform him about all developments

1 in that region.

2 Q. And can you recall anything else being said during that

3 conversation? Was that a short conversation?

4 A. Yes. That was a relatively short conversation where the president

5 told him what I already said.

6 Q. And did Mr. Tarculovski leave the office thereafter?

7 A. Yes. He left and he was granted leave of several days, absence

8 from work. That is pursuant to the labour law.

9 Q. And did you hear again from Mr. Tarculovski during that weekend of

10 the 10, 11, and 12 of August of 2001?

11 A. Yes. We spoke again on the 11th of August.

12 Q. And can you recall -- well, let me ask you this: Did you have one

13 or several contacts during that day with Mr. Tarculovski, as far as you

14 can recall?

15 A. We had contacts towards midday, maybe around 5.00 or 6.00,

16 regarding some problem that occurred, or maybe we had several contacts but

17 they were all dealing with the same situation.

18 Q. And can you recall whether that was you who called him or he who

19 called you, or both?

20 A. I believe that -- initially I think he called me. He called my

21 mobile phone number.

22 Q. And just a moment ago you said that maybe we had several contact

23 but they were all dealing with the same situation. Could you say what

24 that situation was?

25 A. On the 11th of August, as I said, somewhere maybe around 1700

1 hours, the president, Trajkovski, was at my home, and we had lunch there

2 together. Mr. Tarculovski phoned, he called me at my mobile phone number,

3 and he informed me that there has been some problem at Ljubanci. I asked

4 him what was it, and he said that he had some information that there was

5 some action in preparation and that it was coordinated between the army of

6 the Republic of Macedonia and the police, and that there had been some

7 commander, some major, who refused to cooperate with the rest of -- of the

8 members of the security forces.

9 I asked him what the problem was. He said that he wanted to talk

10 to the president. I conveyed this part of the story to the president,

11 then the president spoke directly to Mr. Tarculovski, and I suppose he

12 told him the same, and he told him to establish contact with the major so

13 they could talk directly.

14 Q. But stopping there for a second, if I may, Mr. Keskovski, do you

15 know from whom Mr. Tarculovski had obtained that information about what he

16 recounted to you? Did he say that to you?

17 A. No.

18 Q. And during these contacts that you had with him, did he indicate

19 to you or suggest to you that he personally was taking part in that

20 action?

21 A. No.

22 Q. And did Mr. Tarculovski give you any information that pertained to

23 the presence or otherwise of members of the NLA in the village?

24 A. No, not to me personally.

25 Q. Do you know if that information was communicating [sic] otherwise

1 to the president?

2 A. I believe that, yes, he communicated that to the president

3 personally. Since, as I previously stated, on the preceding day he

4 received the same order as I received during my entire course of work to

5 be informed about the events that were taking place at Ljuboten and around

6 Ljuboten, in Ljubanci specifically, because Mr. Tarculovski was at

7 Ljubanci, to keep him informed on the developments on the ground.

8 Whether the president was receiving maybe through some other forms

9 of communication, possibly through Mr. Tarculovski directly, I believe he

10 had received information because the president was aware of the situation,

11 as far as I could register.

12 Q. And you've indicated, I believe, that the phone then passed

13 hands. Is that correct?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And do you know who the president talked to?

16 A. Initially he spoke to Mr. Tarculovski. Afterwards, we had a

17 conversation between myself and Mr. Tarculovski in the presence of the

18 army major, whom the president requested. He wanted to talk to him

19 directly.

20 After the conversation, after my conversation with the major, I

21 asked him what his rank was and his name for identification reasons,

22 because according to the standards, I could not let the president speak to

23 anyone without knowing who was at the other side of the line, and I

24 informed the major that I had the president of the Republic of Macedonia,

25 the supreme commander next to me and that he wanted to talk to him

1 directly.

2 The president spoke directly to the major, asked him about his

3 rank, asked him under whose command in the army he was. He issued an

4 order to support the actions that the security forces needed to carry out

5 under his competence and that he would phone Mr. Sokol Mitrevski [as

6 interpreted], who was his personal assistant, to inform him about the

7 order that he had issued. Mr. Mitrevski was the personal ADC.

8 Q. Just to be clear on what you've just indicated, Mr. Keskovski, who

9 did the president give the -- well, first let me clear up the record at

10 line 5 -- 4 of page 75 there's a reference to Mr. Mitrevski. It should be

11 Mitrovski. And to clarify your answer, Mr. Keskovski, who did the

12 president gave that order to support the actions, who did he gave that

13 order to?

14 A. As I said, the army officer with whom he established contact,

15 personally, directly.

16 Q. And would that be the major whom you've mentioned earlier?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. I'd just like to read to you a passage from the transcript from

19 the 25th of June of 2007, it's at page 2580 and it's a comment made by the

20 major in question, Mr. Keskovski, and he said this: "From the president I

21 got certain instructions that I have to undertake measures and activities

22 under my competence."

23 Would that generally be consistent with your recollection of what

24 the president said?

25 MS. ISSA: Your Honour, I'm actually going to object to that

1 before the witness answers. In my submission it is really improper for

2 the Defence counsel in his examination-in-chief to put questions to the

3 witness by referring to other testimony and then simply asking him would

4 it be correct as opposed to asking him what he recalls.

5 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. We are, Ms. Issa, following the

6 procedure of allowing questioning of this nature to see whether the

7 meaning intended to be conveyed by the witness is consistent with that

8 which is conveyed by another witness, there being otherwise quite a

9 capacity for confusion between the two. It is very much, as you would

10 appreciate, of a conjectural and argumentive form, the answer, rather than

11 direct evidence, but there are occasions when the witness says Oh, no and

12 gives some quite different understanding, so it has proved useful.

13 Thank you for your objection.

14 Please carry on, Mr. Mettraux.

15 MR. METTRAUX: Thank you, Your Honour.

16 Q. Mr. Keskovski, I apologise. I will ask you the question again and

17 I will simply read once again the transcript from the major in question

18 back to you. He said this: "From the president I got certain

19 instructions that I have to undertake measures and activities under my

20 competence."

21 And my question was: Would that generally be consistent with your

22 recollection of what the president said?

23 A. Yes, precisely.

24 Q. And in your recollection, could you perhaps specify to the best of

25 your recollection what those measures and activities were that the

1 president ordered the major to take?

2 A. As I said, measures and activities that were under his competence

3 during that time. I really don't know what the competences were and what

4 measures a major could undertake.

5 Q. And perhaps I'll ask you then to go back to your statement. This

6 is Rule 65 ter 1D1249. And this is under tab 1 of your statement [sic],

7 Mr. Keskovski. And I'll ask you to turn to what is page 10 of this

8 statement. It's paragraph 41.

9 MR. METTRAUX: And for the registry it is page 1D00-9968.

10 Q. And, Mr. Keskovski, I apologise for presenting to you the English

11 one, but I'm going to read it to you and you will have the translation in

12 Macedonian.

13 Paragraph 41 says this: "The president asked what his rank and

14 superior's name. I did not hear replies from the major to the president,

15 but I heard, as the president told the major to make sure that the

16 operations goes according to the plans and he would call his superior

17 General Sokol Mitrovski."

18 Would that statement attributed to you and written down by an

19 investigator of the Prosecution be a fair summary of what you heard the

20 president tell the major?

21 A. Yes.

22 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, I'd like to show the witness another

23 document which you may find under tab 8 of your binder. But before I do,

24 I would like to indicate or to give a particular indication in relation to

25 this document and I'll ask the registry to bring up what is 1D01-0261.

1 Q. Mr. Keskovski, you can find this document under tab 8 of your

2 binder.

3 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, simply as a -- as an introduction

4 before moving on, this is a CLSS translation, official translation of what

5 is already admitted as Exhibit P304. And in the course of reviewing the

6 material, the Defence identified a pretty serious translation mistake in

7 the construction of the second paragraph of that document. The original

8 translation which is presently admitted in e-court was a draft translation

9 prepared by the Office of the Prosecutor and having becoming aware of this

10 issue of translation we've submitted an official request and we've

11 received the translation in the course of last week.

12 Simply for the transcript, I will read for the record what the

13 original sentence, that's the second paragraph in the unofficial OTP

14 translation said. It said this: "The action about which none was

15 supposed to know on the order of the president was supposed to begin on 11

16 August 2001 at 4.30."

17 As Your Honour would appreciate from looking at the original in

18 Macedonian already there are a number of at least two commas that are

19 missing and it could potentially lead to a misleading reading of what that

20 paragraph is and we will now explore what the actual translation of that

21 sentence means and how it should be read when it is correctly organised.

22 Q. Mr. Keskovski, I apologise for that.

23 Can you now look at this document which you have in front of you.

24 This is a report on the situation in the area of the 3rd Guard Brigade,

25 Ljuboten village. It comes from the Ministry of Defence, General Staff of

1 the army, 1st Guard Brigade. It is sent to General-Major Sokol Mitrevski

2 and it is dated the 12th of August of 2001. Can you see that?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And perhaps there's no need for you to turn to the last page, but

5 if you do, you will see that the document was prepared by Colonel Blazo

6 Kopacev and it was sent to various authorities at the time.

7 First let me ask you this: Were you aware in 2001 or 2002 of the

8 existence of this particular document?

9 A. No.

10 Q. Let me to ask you to look first at the first paragraph of that

11 document. It starts with the word: "At 2130 hours on 10 August 2001."

12 Can you see that?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And if you look further into the documents, you will see that the

15 document is generally organised chronologically, it covers the 10, 11 and

16 12 of August.

17 But would it be correct that in the first paragraph of that

18 document it refers to a particular meeting which was said to have been

19 attended by Mr. Tarculovski, Mr. Krstevski, and a major called Major Mitre

20 Despodov. Is that correct?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And then, Mr. Keskovski, I will read very slowly the second

23 paragraph of that document, which has now been retranslated or translated

24 by CLSS. And it says this: "The action, which was to remain secret, was

25 supposed to begin at 0430 hours on 11 August 2001 according to an order of

1 the president."

2 Can you see that?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And perhaps you can also help us with the original there by

5 focussing on the Macedonian. Do you agree that according to the original

6 in Macedonian it suggests that the president, or it was the president that

7 gave the order for the action to commence. Is that correct?

8 A. This is what is written here.

9 Q. And if I can ask you now to move two paragraph down, to a passage

10 that reads as follows: "Sometimes between 1800 hours and 1900 hours on 11

11 August 2001, Johan Tarculovski personally rang the president from the

12 command post of the 3rd/1st Guard Brigade and, after a short conversation,

13 the president demanded to speak directly with the commanding officer,

14 Major Mitre Despodov."

15 Can you see that?

16 A. Yes, I see it.

17 Q. And does that generally, that sentence I just read to you, does

18 that generally accord with your memory and recollection of this incident?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And perhaps I should also ask you this: Is it consistent with

21 your evidence that this phone call took place on the 11th of August of

22 2001?

23 A. Yes.

24 MR. METTRAUX: Your Honour, at this stage we'd move to have the

25 official CLSS translation admitted in replacement to the draft translation

1 of the Prosecution for what is Exhibit P304.

2 JUDGE PARKER: That will occur.

3 MR. METTRAUX: Thank you, Your Honour.

4 Could the witness please be shown what is Exhibit P303.

5 Q. Mr. Keskovski, this would be under tab 9 of your binder, please.

6 Thank you.

7 Mr. Keskovski, this is another report. This one coming from,

8 again, the army, the 1st Guard Brigade, captain first class Ljupco

9 Kostadinov. It is dated again the 12 of August of 2001, and if you look

10 at the end of the document it is indeed signed by Ljupco Kostadinov,

11 captain first class. Can you see that?

12 A. Yes I see it.

13 Q. And if you skim through the document you will see again this

14 document is also organised in chronological fashion starting with the 10,

15 then the 11 and then going on to the 12th of August of 2001.

16 And I will ask you to go to the second page, please,

17 Mr. Keskovski.

18 A. Yes, I'm following you. I'm on the second page.

19 Q. And I'd ask you to locate a paragraph which started with the

20 words: "On Saturday, 11 August, 2001."

21 Can you see that?

22 A. Yes, I see it.

23 Q. And again, it refers to the following: "Around 1700 to 1730 hours

24 the person Johan Tarculovski asked Major Despodov to shoot at target in

25 the village of Ljuboten, which they previously had determined," and it

1 goes on to say: "Around 1800 to 1900 hours first the person Johan talked

2 with the president of the state, and then Major Despodov personally talked

3 with the president. The president asked him whether he is under the

4 command of Sokol. Major Despodov answered yes."

5 Again, in relation to the issue of timing, Mr. Keskovski, would it

6 be consistent with your recollection that this call between the president

7 and Mr. Tarculovski took place sometimes in late afternoon or early

8 evening on the 11th of August of 2001?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And if someone were to suggest that this particular call took

11 place on the 10th and not on the 11th of August, that would be incorrect.

12 Is that right?

13 A. Yes, this would be incorrect.

14 Q. I would now like to ask you a few more questions still about the

15 11th of August of 2001. That's the Saturday. Can you recall now where

16 you were that afternoon, the afternoon of the 11th of August?

17 A. I was at home.

18 Q. And did you see the president that afternoon?

19 A. As I mentioned previously, the president, Mr. Boris Trajkovski,

20 called me around 1400 hours and asked us where we were. I told him I was

21 at home for lunch. He told me not to start with lunch, that he would come

22 to my home. He arrived about 3.00, 3.30 in the afternoon and stayed until

23 7.30 or about 8.00. I remember this because upon his leaving it was

24 already dark.

25 Q. And during that time, did -- you've indicated already the

1 conversation with -- or conversations with Mr. Tarculovski. Did anyone

2 else try to contact the president during that afternoon?

3 A. Yes. From the cabinet of the prime minister of the Republic of

4 Macedonia, there was a call, and they asked that the president be informed

5 that in Radusa region there have been violent clashes between members of

6 the police units who were on the ground and the Albanian terrorist

7 groupations who were attacking from the Kosovo side towards and on the

8 territory of the Republic of Macedonia. These police forces numbered

9 about 70 and were attacked by around 600 members of the so-called Kosovo

10 Protection Corps. So this was the information that came to me that I was

11 asked to inform the president, and he asked -- they asked that the

12 president take action to include the army, to undertake measures to

13 protect these members of the police forces of the Ministry of Interior,

14 and to end the crisis which was ongoing in Radusa in the course of that

15 day.

16 Q. Just pausing there for a second. Can you recall who of the

17 cabinet of the prime minister contacted you in relation to this matter?

18 Do you recall?

19 A. Yes. This is the personal secretary of the prime minister at the

20 time, Mr. Robert Ljusev.

21 Q. And in your previous response or answer you said that they asked

22 that the president take action to include the army, to undertake measures

23 to protect these members of the police forces of the Ministry of Interior

24 and to end the crisis and so on. Do you recall if they made any

25 particular suggestion in that regard to the president or was it a more

1 general request that they had made to him?

2 A. No. As I said, with precise data, in the Radusa region, that day,

3 there were no other forces, because the road was blocked by an armoured

4 vehicle that had turned over. So there was no access to the positions.

5 From here, through the members of the Ministry of Interior, and

6 with contact of some kind to the office of the prime minister, they

7 specifically asked for air support and they asked that they be attacking

8 the forces from -- that were attacking from the Kosovo side towards Radusa

9 in order to eliminate all activities of the Albanian terrorists and the

10 Kosovo Protection Corps which was deeply penetrating the territory of the

11 Republic of Macedonia.

12 So I will say it again, air attack, air-strikes because the road

13 was blocked, these information -- this is the information I received from

14 the cabinet of the prime minister of the Republic of Macedonia.

15 Q. And how did the president respond to the request that was made to

16 him by the cabinet of the prime minister?

17 A. The president immediately ordered me to ask and to find General

18 Stamboliski who was the chief of General Staff. I phoned him, told him

19 that the president was looking for him, and briefed him on the situation I

20 had heard about. Then they were in direct contact, the president Boris

21 Trajkovski and General Stamboliski, whereby he asked why there was no air

22 support and activities of army units in the Radusa area.

23 I don't know what General Stamboliski responded. However, the

24 president ordered him immediately to send the air forces and to act in the

25 Radusa area for the purpose of resolving the situation which had occurred

1 at that period of time there.

2 15 minutes after this conversation, we looked through the windows

3 and we saw two planes of the air force fly by. They fired a number of

4 rockets exactly along the line of the city of Skopje and left. The next

5 day, we heard that this action ended in a positive manner.

6 As for the positions of the units, I was informed about the exact

7 positions by the cabinet of the prime minister and I transmitted this to

8 General Stamboliski who then further transmitted them for the purpose of

9 the action of the air force of the Republic of Macedonia.

10 Q. And you said that two planes --

11 MS. ISSA: Your Honour.

12 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Ms. Issa.

13 MS. ISSA: I am aware of the time, and I actually do have a brief

14 matter that I had a like to address the Chamber on before we end for the

15 day.

16 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Mettraux, would it trouble to you pause at this

17 point?

18 MR. METTRAUX: I think if I were allowed to ask one more question,

19 Your Honour, that would fit quite well.

20 JUDGE PARKER: Please go ahead.

21 MR. METTRAUX: Thank you.

22 Q. Mr. Keskovski, these phone conversations, phone calls which you

23 had back and forth with General Stamboliski and the president, can you

24 recall approximately in terms of timing whether it took place before or

25 after the calls that had you with Mr. Tarculovski; and, if you can recall,

1 how long after or before?

2 A. These conversations with General Stamboliski took place before the

3 conversations with Mr. Tarculovski, and I believe it happened somewhere

4 around 1400 hours, because the news were on television at that time.

5 MR. METTRAUX: I'm grateful.

6 JUDGE PARKER: Ms. Issa.

7 MS. ISSA: I wonder if I may address the Chamber without the

8 witness, Your Honour.

9 JUDGE PARKER: Sir, we're going to adjourn again for the evening

10 and we resume tomorrow morning at 9.00. The -- if you could return then.

11 Thank you. The court officer will show you out.

12 [The witness stands down]

13 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Ms. Issa.

14 MS. ISSA: Well, Your Honour, I hate to raise this again and I was

15 not rising in the -- during the course of the examination-in-chief towards

16 the end, but, quite frankly, the witness has now mentioned great swathes

17 of matters that either are quite different from the statement that he gave

18 in -- that he gave which was initially submitted under Rule 92 bis and the

19 statement that he actually gave to the Office of the Prosecutor.

20 And in addition to that, there are areas such as being sent out in

21 the field, having everyday discussions with the president about issues,

22 you know, the appointment of Zivko Kakovski [phoen] by the government, all

23 of these areas are nowhere to be found in -- in the Rule 65 ter (G) nor

24 the proofing note, and they're quite significant critical areas, as Your

25 Honour can appreciate.

1 So, unfortunately, it places the Prosecution in a difficult

2 position on cross-examination and we may be forced to request perhaps a

3 day or a session to -- to prepare.

4 JUDGE PARKER: You're giving us early warning. Is that what

5 you're doing?

6 MS. ISSA: Well, Your Honour, I thought I would raise the matter

7 at the earliest opportunity since it is obviously coming to my attention

8 at this stage.

9 JUDGE PARKER: You identify a number of matters about which you

10 say you have not had notice or material differences between the evidence

11 given and the statement that had been offered under Rule 92 bis, and you

12 say that you anticipate that these collectively may cause you to need an

13 adjournment.

14 MS. ISSA: Well, partly, Your Honour, because we may need to

15 actually try and obtain some additional information that might be of

16 assistance to us in the cross-examination which we obviously couldn't have

17 anticipated and placed on the Prosecution witness list, exhibit list,

18 rather.

19 JUDGE PARKER: Very well. Well, until the situation materialises,

20 we can't do anything specifically about it. Clearly you will be using

21 your best endeavours to be able to continue with the cross-examination

22 when the evidence in chief has finished, and if you find then that you're

23 not in that position you will raise the matter specifically.

24 MS. ISSA: Certainly, Your Honour.

25 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.

1 Mr. Mettraux, it doesn't surprise me that the application is made

2 or the indication of a possible application is made from what I have

3 observed of the 92 bis statement and the tenor of this evidence. I make

4 that observation because frankly, the notice of the evidence of the

5 witness has been less than satisfactory.

6 Given the hour, we must now adjourn and we resume at 9.00 in the

7 morning.

8 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 7.02 p.m.,

9 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 26th day of

10 February, 2008, at 9.00 a.m.

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