Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 55

1 Tuesday, 11th January, 2000

2 [Further Appearance]

3 [Open session]

4 [The accused entered court]

5 --- Upon commencing at 10.45 a.m.

6 JUDGE HUNT: Call the case, please.

7 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Case

8 IT-99-36-PT, the Prosecutor against Radoslav Brdjanin

9 and Momir Talic.

10 JUDGE HUNT: Appearances, please.

11 MR. KEEGAN: Good morning, Your Honour. For

12 the Prosecution, I am Michael Keegan. I'm assisted by

13 my colleague Ms. Anna Richterova, and we are further

14 assisted by Ms. Ann Sutherland and Ms. Adele Erasmus.

15 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you, Mr. Keegan. For the

16 accused, for Mr. Brdjanin?

17 MR. ACKERMAN: Good morning, Your Honour. My

18 name is John Ackerman. I appear this morning on behalf

19 of Mr. Brdjanin.

20 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you, Mr. Ackerman.

21 General Talic.

22 MR. PITRON: [Interpretation] Good morning,

23 Your Honour.

24 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please, for the

25 Defence counsel.

Page 56

1 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you, Mr. Pitron. I am

2 going to ask each of the accused whether they are able

3 to understand the proceedings in a language that they

4 know. Mr. Brdjanin?

5 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Yes.

6 JUDGE HUNT: General Talic?

7 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Yes.

8 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you.

9 These proceedings are required by Rule 50(B)

10 to enter fresh pleas to the amended indictment, in that

11 it adds fresh charges.

12 It is common practice within this Tribunal

13 for the accused to waive his right to have the

14 indictment read out in full before entering a plea.

15 Mr. Ackerman, have you discussed that with your

16 client?

17 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, my client will

18 waive the reading of the full indictment.

19 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you very much.

20 Mr. Pitron, have you discussed this with your client?

21 MR. PITRON: [Interpretation] No, Your

22 Honour.

23 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please, for the

24 Defence counsel.

25 JUDGE HUNT: Mr. Pitron, you do have to turn

Page 57

1 the microphone on each time, I'm afraid.

2 MR. PITRON: [Interpretation] I do apologise.

3 The answer, Judge, is no, my client does not wish to

4 have the -- to waive the right to have the indictment

5 read in full.

6 JUDGE HUNT: Sorry, I'm not sure I follow

7 what you're saying. Are you saying he does wish to

8 have it read in full or he does waive his right to have

9 it read in full?

10 MR. PITRON: [Interpretation] He waives the

11 right, Your Honour.

12 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you very much.

13 Well, I'll take each of the accused

14 separately.

15 Mr. Brdjanin, would you stand, please? In

16 Count 1, you have been charged with genocide. Do you

17 plead guilty or not guilty to that charge?

18 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Not

19 guilty.

20 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 2, you have been

21 charged in complicity in genocide. Do you plead guilty

22 or not guilty?

23 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Not

24 guilty.

25 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 3, you have been

Page 58

1 charged with a crime against humanity, being

2 persecutions. Do you plead guilty or not guilty?

3 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Not

4 guilty.

5 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 4, you have been

6 charged with a crime against humanity, being

7 extermination. Do you plead guilty or not guilty?

8 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Not

9 guilty.

10 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 5, you have been

11 charged with wilful killing as a grave breach of the

12 Geneva Conventions. Do you plead guilty or not

13 guilty?

14 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Not

15 guilty.

16 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 6, you have been

17 charged with torture as a crime against humanity. Do

18 you plead guilty or not guilty?

19 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Not

20 guilty.

21 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 7, you have been

22 charged with torture as a grave breach of the Geneva

23 Conventions. Do you plead guilty or not guilty?

24 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Not

25 guilty.

Page 59

1 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 8, you have been

2 charged with deportation as a crime against humanity.

3 Do you plead guilty or not guilty?

4 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Not

5 guilty.

6 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 9, you have been

7 charged with inhuman acts, being forcible transfer, as

8 a crime against humanity. Do you plead guilty or not

9 guilty?

10 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Not

11 guilty.

12 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 10, you have been

13 charged with unlawful and wanton extensive destruction

14 and appropriation of property not justified by military

15 necessity as a grave breach of the Geneva Conventions.

16 Do you plea guilty or not guilty?

17 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Not

18 guilty.

19 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 11, you have been

20 charged with a wanton destruction of cities, towns, or

21 villages, or devastation not justified by military

22 necessity as a violation of the laws or customs of

23 war. Do you plead guilty or not guilty?

24 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Not

25 guilty.

Page 60

1 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 12, you have been

2 charged with destruction or wilful damage done to

3 institutions dedicated to religion as a violation of

4 the laws or customs of war. Do you plead guilty or not

5 guilty?

6 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Not

7 guilty.

8 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you, Mr. Brdjanin. You

9 may sit down, please.

10 General Talic, would you stand, please.

11 In Count 1, you have been charged with

12 genocide. Do you plead guilty or not guilty?

13 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Not

14 guilty.

15 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 2, you have been

16 charged with complicity in genocide. Do you plead

17 guilty or not guilty?

18 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Not

19 guilty.

20 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 3, you have been

21 charged with persecutions as a crime against humanity.

22 Do you plead guilty or not guilty?

23 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Not

24 guilty.

25 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 4, you have been

Page 61

1 charged with extermination as a crime against

2 humanity. Do you plead guilty or not guilty?

3 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Not

4 guilty.

5 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 5, you have been

6 charged with wilful killing as a grave breach of the

7 Geneva Conventions. Do you plead guilty or not

8 guilty?

9 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Not

10 guilty.

11 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 6, you have been

12 charged with torture as a crime against humanity. Do

13 you plead guilty or not guilty?

14 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Not

15 guilty.

16 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 7, you have been

17 charged with torture as a grave breach of the Geneva

18 Conventions. Do you plead guilty or not guilty?

19 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Not

20 guilty.

21 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 8, you've been charged

22 with deportation as a crime against humanity. Do you

23 plead guilty or not guilty?

24 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Not

25 guilty.

Page 62

1 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 9, you have been

2 charged with inhumane acts, being forcible transfer, as

3 a crime against humanity. Do you plead guilty or not

4 guilty?

5 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Not

6 guilty.

7 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 10, you have been

8 charged with unlawful and wanton extensive destruction

9 and appropriation of property not justified by military

10 necessity as a grave breach of the Geneva Conventions.

11 Do you plead guilty or not guilty?

12 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Not

13 guilty.

14 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 11, you have been

15 charged with wanton destruction of cities, towns, or

16 villages, or devastation not justified by military

17 necessity as a violation of the laws or customs of

18 war. Do you plead guilty or not guilty?

19 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Not

20 guilty.

21 JUDGE HUNT: In Count 12, you have been

22 charged with destruction or wilful damage done to

23 institutions dedicated to religion as a violation of

24 the laws or customs of war. Do you plead guilty or not

25 guilty?

Page 63

1 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Not

2 guilty.

3 JUDGE HUNT: You may sit down, please,

4 General Talic. Thank you.

5 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Your

6 Honour, if I may, I'd like to say a few sentences.

7 JUDGE HUNT: Yes, General Talic.

8 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] As far as

9 I know, all the crimes that were done by military

10 personnel in war are tried by military courts or

11 international military courts or the warring states.

12 This is logical and just because the military

13 prosecution and military justice system is there to

14 deal with the army and has the best knowledge of

15 military organisation --

16 JUDGE HUNT: General Talic, you have to be

17 translated and I think you're speaking very quickly.

18 If you could just slow down a little bit, please.

19 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Very

20 well.

21 JUDGE HUNT: Yes.

22 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Would you

23 like me to repeat what I have read out so far?

24 JUDGE HUNT: No, no. I think the translators

25 have done a magnificent job in keeping up with you, but

Page 64

1 they were obviously labouring under some difficulty.

2 If you would like to proceed.

3 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] I

4 personally feel that justice and law would be satisfied

5 only if I were to be tried by a military court of law;

6 that is to say, Generals who have taken part in civil

7 wars, and there are enough of them.

8 Thank you, Your Honour, for allowing me to

9 say a few words.

10 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you, General Talic. You

11 may sit down.

12 Mr. Pitron, I don't know whether that is

13 intended to constitute some challenge to the

14 jurisdiction of the Tribunal. Is it?

15 MR. PITRON: [Interpretation] [No

16 interpretation].

17 JUDGE HUNT: I'm sorry. Mr. Pitron, just one

18 moment. We've got no English translation for that.

19 THE INTERPRETER: Can you hear it now? Can

20 you hear it now?

21 JUDGE HUNT: I can hear an English speaker

22 now.

23 I'm sorry, Mr. Pitron. Would you repeat what

24 you said?

25 MR. PITRON: [Interpretation] I want to say,

Page 65

1 from a legal point of view, that we are not contesting

2 the jurisdiction of the Tribunal in any way. On the

3 other hand, I think that my client reacted quite

4 personally, and after all, he's been in detention for

5 almost four months now and he was not made familiar

6 with the evidence upon which the indictment is based.

7 JUDGE HUNT: Yes. Well, thank you very

8 much. I can I understand your client wishing to say

9 something, but having said it, I propose to leave it

10 where it stands, in the transcript.

11 --- Whereupon the Further Appearance

12 adjourned at 11:00 a.m.

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

Page 66