Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 9040

1 Tuesday, 27 August 2002

2 [Open session]

3 --- Upon commencing at 2.19 p.m.

4 [The accused entered court]

5 JUDGE AGIUS: [Microphone not activated] Please proceed to call

6 the case, Madam Registrar.

7 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour. This is the case number,

8 IT-99-36-T, the Prosecutor versus Radoslav Brdjanin and Momir Talic.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you. Mr. Brdjanin, good afternoon to you.

10 Can you hear me in a language that you can understand?

11 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your

12 Honour. I can hear you and I understand you.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. You may sit down.

14 General Talic, good afternoon to you too. Can you hear me in a

15 language that you can understand?

16 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours.

17 Yes, I can.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. You may sit down.

19 Appearances for the Prosecution.

20 MS. KORNER: Good afternoon, Your Honours. Joanna Korner, Anna

21 Richterova, assisted by Hasan Younis, case manager.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. And good afternoon to you.

23 Appearances for Radoslav Brdjanin.

24 MR. TRBOJEVIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours. I

25 am Milan Trbojevic. I'm with the lead counsel John Ackerman and our

Page 9041

1 assistant Marela Jevtovic.

2 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, and good afternoon to you.

3 Appearance for General Talic.

4 MR. ZECEVIC: Good afternoon, Your Honours. Slobodan Zecevic and

5 Natasha Ivanovic-Fauveau for General Talic.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: And good afternoon to you.

7 Preliminaries? Ms. Korner.

8 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, I'm happy to say that this morning I was

9 able to have a productive meeting with counsel for General Talic, which I

10 hope will shorten matters both today and at a later stage. Mr. Ackerman

11 on behalf of Mr. Brdjanin wasn't there, but as I understand it, because he

12 was in agreement with the general principles that we discussed. The

13 first was this: Your Honour will recall that yesterday at the end of the

14 evidence in chief of this witness, Mr. Ackerman said that he didn't think

15 he was going to cross-examine and there was some discussion between

16 General Talic and his counsel. I was asked today whether I would be

17 prepared to make some admissions in relation to this particular incident

18 and Kljuc generally. And I'm happy so to do and in a moment I'll hand a

19 copy to Your Honours and read it into the record, because it will

20 certainly shorten matters with this witness.

21 One of the matters we discussed was this question of where

22 witnesses give evidence where the actual facts cannot be disputed by the

23 defendants because it's not suggested -- the accused, I'm sorry -- that

24 either of them were there. And whether it was necessary for these people

25 to come and give evidence, unless for some reason the Prosecution thought

Page 9042

1 that they would assist. And again, I'm happy to say, and I think it's in

2 the interests of all parties, particularly the accused, that a general

3 agreement was reached that when the list of witnesses for a municipality

4 is given out in advance, the Defence will notify us if they do not require

5 to cross-examine a particular witness. And on some occasions it may be if

6 the Prosecution is prepared to make various admissions about those

7 events. So that is, I think, something that we've achieved even without a

8 Status Conference, as it were.

9 Your Honour, in relation therefore to this incident, the killings

10 at the Biljani school, can I hand to Your Honours and an original to the

11 Court -- and I have other copies available for other interested parties.

12 And I'm sorry, I've forgotten to give it to the interpreters. But I don't

13 think it matters, because it's very short, although if they want it, we

14 can hand it in before I read it out. There are three copies for Your

15 Honours. And the original -- I hope it's the original, for the Court. I

16 think it probably ought to be given an exhibit number, which by our

17 reckoning is Exhibit 1078.

18 I haven't got my earphones on, so I don't know whether the

19 interpreters want to be given a copy quickly. They do or they don't?

20 THE INTERPRETER: If necessary. If it's going to be used, yes,

21 please.

22 MS. KORNER: I'm sorry? Forgive me, Your Honour.

23 [Prosecution counsel confer]

24 MS. KORNER: Yes. I'm told, Your Honour, they're going to be the

25 intervening numbers which have not yet been used up will be used up by

Page 9043

1 Ms. Richterova today. So we'd ask that that be marked Exhibit 1078.

2 Your Honour, not having heard a request through my earphones --

3 well, I may have, because I haven't got them -- sorry.

4 All right. I'm sorry. Now I've got the earphones plugged in. Do

5 the interpreters want a copy before I read this out?

6 THE INTERPRETER: If the document is going to be used, it would be

7 useful.

8 MS. KORNER: All right. Your Honour I'm told it would be. Can I

9 hand out copies to the interpreters. If somebody could just hand them in

10 to the booth.

11 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

12 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, perhaps the -- the copies will be

13 coming. I see the interpreters -- I think the usher has gone round to the

14 wrong booth, but any how -- if I read it very slowly. And both Defence

15 counsel have got copies. It's headed "Admission." And I've put number 1

16 in, because I anticipate there will be more to come, Your Honour -- made

17 on behalf of the Prosecutor.

18 1: Documents indicate that on or about the 6th of June 1992, the

19 majority of the municipality of Kljuc was transferred from the area of

20 responsibility ("AOR") of the 1st Krajina Corps to that of the 2nd

21 Krajina Corps.

22 2: Units of the 1st Krajina Corps continued to operate in Kljuc

23 after that date and Momir Talic continued to report on events in that

24 municipality.

25 3: Marko Samardzija, who (according to witnesses) was in charge

Page 9044

1 of the troops who carried out the massacre of the Biljani school on the

2 10th of July 1992, came within the authority of the 2nd Krajina Corps.

3 Your Honour, I hope that is self-explanatory. Your Honour, in due

4 course, the whole area of responsibilities will be explained by the

5 witness Ewan Brown whose report we hope to be able to disclose very

6 shortly.

7 Your, may I also add this in relation to the witnesses today and

8 tomorrow and for the rest of this week: Because of the break, none of the

9 witnesses arrived here except for the one that Ms. Richterova -- the two

10 that Ms. Richterova has been calling -- will call until yesterday

11 evening. As a result, what we would ask Your Honours to do, even if we

12 run a bit short or stop early today, is the next witness who's going to

13 deal with the massacre at Velagici will be starting tomorrow he's been

14 seen today by the lawyer Mr. Nicholls calling him. And if that again runs

15 short, the next witness who I shall be calling -- and I can't remember

16 whether he requires protective measures, so can I -- I think Your Honour

17 has been notified.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: I think so.

19 MS. KORNER: Yes, I think he does.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. I think it's 7. -- I had the papers this

21 morning. The third one is 7.65. And he is required -- is it BT26?

22 MS. KORNER: No. It's -- yes, he will be giving evidence

23 tomorrow, Your Honour.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: Oh, that's tomorrow.

25 MS. KORNER: That's tomorrow. 7.133 will give evidence directly

Page 9045

1 after this witness.


3 MS. KORNER: And then 7.105, who as I say will be dealing with the

4 overall picture of events.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: Yeah. That is not a protective witness.

6 MS. KORNER: No, he's not.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: The one before him, 7.65, BT26.

8 MS. KORNER: That's right. Your Honour, he is at the moment --

9 he's here, but he's going through documents. The problem with him is

10 there is a gentleman with exactly the same name but who comes from a

11 different area. And our searches have thrown up the documents relating to

12 the other gentleman as well. So he's at the moment having to go through

13 to sort out --

14 JUDGE AGIUS: But the other gentleman was born in Kljuc. Yes?

15 And he did mention a brother of his was coming over to give evidence.

16 MS. KORNER: No, no. I think Your Honour -- Your Honour is

17 misunderstanding. There's a man with exactly the same name as Witness

18 7.105.

19 JUDGE AGIUS: Oh, I see. I was referring to someone else.

20 MS. KORNER: No. We gathered together -- we discovered a whole

21 lot of documents that related to the other man. And so it's --


23 MS. KORNER: It's quite an exercise --

24 JUDGE AGIUS: It's like me and the footballer, Mr. Ackerman.

25 MS. KORNER: And so Your Honour, that is why we ask not to call

Page 9046

1 him until Thursday. So that's the situation at the moment.

2 JUDGE AGIUS: And also the Registrar -- I've asked the Registrar

3 to approach you with a view to informing you that in all probability,

4 Friday we will need to -- we will require to start a little bit late.

5 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, that's the other thing I was going to

6 come to, which is my personal difficulties yet again. There's a Status

7 Conference listed in the cases of Gruban and Fustar, Banovic, and others.

8 It's the Keraterm, Omarska case. And at the moment, I have the -- the

9 control of those cases as well. I hope for not too much longer.

10 We've asked -- it's listed in this court, Court I -- well, no.

11 Well, it's listed before the Trial Chamber that normally sits in Court I.

12 I don't know which court they would be in. I've attempted to ask the

13 legal officer who's dealing with it if it could be listed at 12.30 when

14 Milosevic finishes. I've not yet had an answer. At the moment the

15 suggestion is it may be during the course of the afternoon.

16 JUDGE AGIUS: That would suit me fine, because what is happening

17 is the President of Malta is coming over. And I've been asked to join

18 him. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to say no, although I will try

19 to come here as quickly as I can. There's certain protocol that has to be

20 observed, and I don't anticipate to be here before 3.00. I mean,

21 that's -- that's the position.

22 MS. KORNER: Well, I -- that would be most helpful, Your Honour.

23 In fact, if we could try -- and perhaps the two Trial Chambers could try

24 and liaise. Because if they could list the Status Conference, say, at

25 2.00, that would suit everybody perfectly.

Page 9047

1 JUDGE AGIUS: I was his mentor. He was my ex-professor of

2 criminal law. And we've worked together hand in hand until he was made

3 Minister of Justice for some time back and then President of the Republic,

4 and we have remained on very good terms. So I could -- I really couldn't

5 escape -- escape this. So that's -- that's the situation as Friday is

6 concerned. But --

7 MS. KORNER: Well, Your Honour, that may, as I say, well assist.

8 So that's the general timetable then for this week.

9 And may I ask, Your Honour -- I'll just stay for the end of this

10 witness. But would Your Honour forgive me then if I leave court.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: No, certainly.

12 MS. KORNER: Because I have another matter.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: Certainly.

14 Now, is there going to be a cross-examination of yesterday's

15 witness? Mr. Ackerman?

16 MR. ACKERMAN: On behalf of Mr. Brdjanin, we have no questions,

17 Your Honour.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, Mr. Ackerman.

19 And Mr. Zecevic?

20 MR. ZECEVIC: Yes, thank you, Your Honours. Your Honours, we will

21 have -- we believe, 45 minutes of cross-examination.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Thank you. So we'll admit the witness once

23 more into the courtroom, please. Thank you.

24 You have had time to consult your client and yourself, I

25 understand. No.

Page 9048

1 MR. ZECEVIC: Yes, Your Honour.

2 JUDGE AGIUS: I just want to make sure he has had time to consult.

3 MR. ZECEVIC: That has resulted with the admission of the--

4 JUDGE AGIUS: I anticipated that much, because although I don't

5 understand the language, I could understand more or less what he was

6 saying yesterday.

7 MR. ZECEVIC: Okay.

8 [The witness entered court]

9 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Good afternoon to you, sir.

10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good afternoon.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: We are concluding today with your evidence, and you

12 will be cross-examined by one of the Defence teams. You will not be

13 cross-examined by the other Defence team. I'll explain shortly. But

14 before we proceed, may I ask you to repeat the solemn declaration that you

15 made yesterday, please.

16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak

17 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.


19 [Witness answered through interpreter]

20 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. You may sit down.

21 The Defence team for Radoslav Brdjanin have no questions to put to

22 you. The Defence team for General Talic have got a few questions to put

23 to you. Again, I recommend to you, give you the same advice as I gave you

24 yesterday, to be brief in your answers and to be precise in your answers,

25 trying to answer the question and nothing but the question.

Page 9049

1 Mr. Zecevic is the lead counsel for General Talic, and he is going

2 to be the one to cross-examine. Please proceed.

3 MR. ZECEVIC: Thank you, Your Honour.

4 Cross-examined by Mr. Zecevic:

5 Q. [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Mr. Cajic.

6 A. Good afternoon.

7 Q. My name is Slobodan Zecevic, and I'm going to put a few questions

8 to you.

9 A. That's no problem.

10 Q. Mr. Cajic, up to now you have given four statements; isn't that

11 correct?

12 A. Yes, that's correct.

13 Q. You gave those statements to the security service in Bosnia and

14 Herzegovina in 1993, 1994, and 1997.

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And to the investigators of the Prosecution in the year 2000.

17 A. Yes, that's correct.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Zecevic and Mr. Cajic, try to allow just a very

19 short interval between question and answer and question so that the

20 interpreters can catch up with you, because since you both speak the same

21 language, the same problem that arises when we are all speaking English

22 repeats itself. So thank you.

23 MR. ZECEVIC: Yes, Your Honour.

24 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Cajic, you left Kljuc around September 1992.

25 A. I think it was on the 19th or the 20th. I'm not sure. The 21st

Page 9050

1 perhaps.

2 Q. When you left Kljuc, you went to Travnik; isn't that correct?

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. After you had arrived in Travnik, you joined the BH army; isn't

5 that correct?

6 A. Yes, that's correct. I had nowhere else to go.

7 Q. Did you join immediately, or how much time passed after you joined

8 the BH army when you arrived in Travnik?

9 A. I joined immediately, since I was registered there. But I rested

10 for a few months and I continued with work in the working platoon in

11 Travnik.

12 Q. Tell me, when you say you were registered, from what date were you

13 registered there?

14 A. Well, I think that I was -- since the collection centre was in the

15 barracks in Travnik, I think that from the day I arrived in Travnik, I was

16 registered there.

17 Q. Tell me yesterday you said that for a certain period of time you

18 hid together with Mr. Dzaferagic.

19 A. Semso Dzaferagic, that's correct.

20 Q. Did he join the BH army too?

21 A. I think that for one year he was absent -- he was in Zenica and

22 Kakanj. He had psychological problems, so he wasn't present. But he

23 was in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

24 Q. Let's go back to 1992. Yesterday you spoke about a checkpoint in

25 front of Sanica.

Page 9051

1 A. On the bridge, to be precise, the bridge over the River Sanica, in

2 front of the entrance to Sanica, 500 or 600 metres from there.

3 Q. You said that there were -- that people were checked at that

4 checkpoint going in both directions, their identity papers were checked.

5 A. Yes. Their papers were checked after the takeover on the 21st,

6 after the mixed police had taken over, when just one -- when the team was

7 composed of just one nationality, that's when they started checking the

8 papers. Up until that time, no.

9 Q. Tell me, isn't it correct to say that the police always had the

10 right to check the papers of citizens at any time, regardless of the

11 nationality of the police?

12 A. Yes, that's correct. And yesterday I mentioned this. But given

13 that my sister-in-law and my brother worked in the factory in Sanica and a

14 day or two later -- I don't know whether they carried on going to work.

15 But colleagues, neighbours with whom they had grown up checked the papers

16 of my sister-in-law or of my brother. Given that there was -- there was

17 no need to do this, because they had known each other for about 20 years

18 or so.

19 Q. I only asked you whether it was normal for the police to check the

20 papers of citizens. Was this part of their authority?

21 A. Yes, that's the case everywhere in the world. It's normal.

22 Q. Tell me, Mr. Cajic, you served in the army; isn't that correct?

23 A. That's correct.

24 Q. After you had finished your military service, did you participate

25 in some sort of reservist exercise?

Page 9052

1 A. Yes, on several occasions.

2 Q. Do you remember - and if you didn't, did men of yours with whom

3 you participated in those trainings, training exercises - did these men

4 receive some sort of compensation if they were employed in a company?

5 A. Yes, they did. If it lasted for several days.

6 Q. If in 1992 you had responded to the mobilisation, you, too, would

7 have been remunerated; isn't that correct?

8 A. Most likely.

9 Q. Mr. Cajic, we've mentioned these checkpoints which were set up in

10 1992. You remember that in your statement given in the year 2000 to the

11 investigators for the Prosecution, in that statement you said that those

12 checkpoints hadn't been erected at the main roads and we didn't have any

13 difficulties.

14 A. Not until mid-March. There were no checkpoints up until then.

15 And then in the middle of March 1992, the checkpoints were set up and they

16 remained there until I left my home.

17 Q. I read out a sentence from your statement which you gave to

18 investigators in the year 2000 and in which you said that you didn't have

19 any difficulties on account of these checkpoints. And yesterday you said

20 that you even had to ask for some sort of authorisation in order to cut

21 the grass in your meadow.

22 A. Yes. As far as I can remember, I said we didn't have any

23 difficulties when there were checkpoints, up until the 20th of May. After

24 the 20th of May, when people were sent back, people who worked in the

25 factory and who were of Muslim nationality, from that date onwards all the

Page 9053

1 problems started, all the problems that arose in Sanica.

2 Q. These problems, did they occur after the ambushes that occurred in

3 Pudin Han and Krasulje?

4 A. I did hear about this event, but because I was -- I lived 7 to 10

5 kilometres away from the spot, I don't know anything about it.

6 Q. In your statement you also indicated, when you spoke about these

7 checkpoints, that -- I am referring to the sentence -- one sentence before

8 the one that I just quoted. There was a war going on in Croatia, and

9 because of the differences in the opinions between Croats and Serbs in the

10 village, it seems that Serbs were taking up measures in order to protect

11 themselves.

12 A. I don't think that I have used the words "in order to protect

13 themselves."

14 MR. ZECEVIC: [Previous translation continues] ... supplied the

15 witness with his statement from 2000 -- 30th of June, 2000 in Serbo-Croat.

16 THE INTERPRETER: Could the interpreters have the references,

17 please.

18 MR. ZECEVIC: Oh, 3rd of June. Sorry. 3rd of June.

19 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Cajic, you will find it on page 3 of your

20 statement, the last and the one before last -- the two last sentences;

21 page 4 of the English version for the Court.

22 A. Yes. You're correct. But I think that this was misinterpreted

23 when my statement was being recorded, because they had no one to protect

24 themselves from. While the war was still going on from Croatia, there was

25 no need for them to protect themselves. Bosnia was still peaceful.

Page 9054

1 Q. Yesterday you told us that you had seen helicopters coming to the

2 hamlet of Gologlavo in 1992.

3 A. Yes. I saw helicopters on several occasions. My house is located

4 below the Gologlavo Brdo, some 1000 metres from the hill.

5 Q. And that was in 1992.

6 A. Yes, that was in 1992, sometime in April or March. I'm not sure

7 about the date.

8 Q. Would you be so kind and have a look at the statement on the same

9 page, paragraph 3 from the top, starting with the words "during 1991."

10 Have you found that quotation?

11 A. Yes, I have.

12 Q. "During 1991, I saw military helicopters landing in the Serb

13 hamlet of Gologlavo."

14 A. Yes, that is correct. No problem. There may have been a

15 mistake. You know, sometimes when you have a lot of things to say, it can

16 be very confusing. And because at the time I worked in Bravsko, I was

17 very close to the main road. And while I was giving my statement, I

18 probably indicated everything that I had seen. So that is how this piece

19 of information remained in this paragraph.

20 Q. Do I understand you correctly that you stand by your statement

21 that you had seen these helicopters in 1991?

22 A. I'm not going to commit myself either way, 1991 or 1992, because a

23 lot of things occurred during that period of time just prior and leading

24 up to the outbreak of the war in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

25 Q. Very well then. Witness, a moment ago in response to one of my

Page 9055

1 questions in relation to your statement, you told us that local Serbs did

2 not have to protect themselves from their fellow citizens, members of

3 other ethnic communities.

4 A. Yes, that is correct.

5 Q. Isn't it correct that in Biljani, in the village of Brkici,

6 Muslims had militarily organised themselves in early 1991?

7 A. No, that is not correct.

8 Q. Isn't it true that Mr. Avdic Amir and then Alem Mujezinovic were

9 the first commanders of a military unit which consisted of four companies

10 from Biljani -- three companies from Biljani?

11 A. The gentleman in question lived in the area of Kljuc. He was not

12 in Biljani. Alem Mujezinovic, on the other hand, lived some seven or

13 eight hundred metres away from my house, so I don't know.

14 Q. Are you aware of the fact that Alem Mujezinovic was the commander

15 of this unit?

16 A. No.

17 Q. Are you aware of the fact that Smail Domazet was the commander of

18 the platoon in Domazeti?

19 A. No.

20 Q. What about Zijad Avdic, do you know that he was the commander of

21 the platoon in Brkici?

22 A. No.

23 Q. Can you tell us, please. Your late brother, Ale Cajic --

24 A. He was not my brother. He was my cousin.

25 Q. Yes, your cousin. Are you aware of the fact that he was the

Page 9056

1 commander of a detachment -- of the local detachment in Brkici?

2 A. No, I'm not.

3 Q. Did you know the leader of the Sanica Crisis Staff, Selman Mujaga?

4 A. Privately, yes.

5 Q. Do you know that he was the leader of the Sanica Crisis Staff?

6 A. No.

7 Q. Are you familiar with the order dated 6th of May, 1992 regarding

8 the prevention of movement of the military and the police in Muslim

9 villages which was issued by the Crisis Staff of Bosanski Kljuc?

10 A. No.

11 THE INTERPRETER: Correction: War Staff of Bosanski Kljuc.

12 MR. ZECEVIC: [Interpretation]

13 Q. You told us that sometime around the 1st of June, if I understood

14 you correctly, the hamlet in which you lived at the time was searched by

15 the military for the first time. Is that correct?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. You also told us that you had heard that Hamdo Cehic was killed

18 on that day.

19 A. Correct. When they came on the first occasion -- well, they came

20 back three days later. And it was on the first occasion that Hamdo Cehic

21 was killed.

22 Q. Didn't you hear that a soldier was killed by a sniper on the same

23 day?

24 A. No, I did not. But I did hear that one of the soldiers was taken

25 away in a van in the village of Cehici.

Page 9057

1 Q. You mean that he was wounded. He was taken away because he was

2 wounded.

3 A. Yes, correct.

4 Q. And that was on the same day.

5 A. Correct. I also believe that I stated yesterday in my testimony

6 that I was personally present when the platoon commander told us that we

7 should stop the fire from that location. And then we told him, "Well,

8 that's your observation point. That's where the fire is coming from."

9 And several minutes later when the communication was established, all

10 activity stopped.

11 Q. The soldier in question was a Serb, was he not?

12 A. Yes, he was.

13 Q. I'm interested in one more thing which remains to be clarified.

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Yesterday you told us about Mladjo Tesic.

16 A. Correct.

17 Q. He was some sort of deputy commander.

18 A. Correct.

19 Q. Are we talking about the same Mladjo Tesic who subsequently helped

20 you reach Kljuc?

21 A. Yes. I'm not trying to hide the fact. He personally took me to

22 Kljuc.

23 Q. Did you know Mladjo Tesic from before?

24 A. Yes, I did.

25 Q. So Mladjo Tesic was the deputy commander when this event happened

Page 9058

1 in Biljani. And two months later he helped you reach Kljuc, so that you

2 could continue further to Travnik.

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. Thank you very much, Mr. Cajic.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: [Microphone not activated] Is there re-examination?

6 MS. RICHTEROVA: No, there's no re-examination.

7 [Trial Chamber confers]

8 JUDGE AGIUS: So Mr. Cajic, that brings us to an end. That

9 concludes your -- that concludes your evidence here. And before you are

10 escorted out of this courtroom back to where you're staying and then taken

11 care of and repatriated, it is my duty here on behalf of the other two

12 Judges and myself and the rest of the Tribunal to thank you for having

13 come over and to give evidence in this case. You will be taken care of by

14 the persons responsible for you. And once more, before you leave, I thank

15 you.

16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you too, Your Honour.

17 [The witness withdrew]

18 JUDGE AGIUS: Is the other witness ready?

19 MS. RICHTEROVA: Yes, the other witness should be ready in the

20 waiting room.


22 MS. RICHTEROVA: And he was granted closed session and pseudonym.

23 JUDGE AGIUS: Yeah. We have to wait for the usher, in any case.

24 MS. KORNER: If Your Honour will forgive me, I'll leave the rest

25 of the proceeds to Ms. Richterova.

Page 9059

1 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Thank you. We're talking of 7.133, no?


3 JUDGE AGIUS: BT25. And you expect to conclude with this witness

4 today?

5 MS. RICHTEROVA: Yes, Your Honours. I am -- my intention is to

6 focus only on the incident itself.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Usher, please the next witness is a protected

8 one, and it will be a closed session. So could I kindly ask you to

9 prepare the courtroom for that purpose, please. Thank you.

10 Yeah. We'll go into closed session.

11 [Closed session]

12 [redacted]

13 [redacted]

14 [redacted]

15 [redacted]

16 [redacted]

17 [redacted]

18 [redacted]

19 [redacted]

20 [redacted]

21 [redacted]

22 [redacted]

23 [redacted]

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22 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned

23 at 4.50 p.m., to be reconvened on Wednesday

24 the 28th day of August, 2002, at 2.15 p.m.