Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 14947

1 Friday, 28 February 2003

2 [Open session]

3 --- Upon commencing at 2.34 p.m.

4 [The accused entered court]

5 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, good afternoon, Madam Registrar, could you call

6 the case, please?

7 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour. Good afternoon, Your Honours,

8 this is case number IT-99-36-T, the Prosecutor versus Radoslav Brdjanin.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Brdjanin, good afternoon to you, can you hear me

10 in a language that you can understand?

11 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honour. I can

12 hear you and I can understand you.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, please sit down. Appearances for the

14 Prosecution.

15 MS. RICHTEROVA: Good afternoon, Your Honours, Anna Richterova

16 assisted by Denise Gustin case manager.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you and good afternoon to you and welcome

18 back, Ms. Gustin. Appearances for the Defence?

19 MR. ACKERMAN: Good afternoon, Your Honour I'm John Ackerman, here

20 again today with Vesna Anic.

21 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you. Before we bring in the witness, any

22 particular point that you would like to make or raise? Nothing,

23 Mr. Ackerman?

24 MR. ACKERMAN: Just a very brief announcement, Your Honour, as a

25 result of the meeting yesterday, Ms. Jevtovic will remain for the next two

Page 14948

1 weeks before she departs, so she will be in court for the next two weeks

2 to get us through this period and I appreciate that very much. That will

3 help.

4 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Thank you for the information, Mr. Ackerman.

5 So let's proceed. Let's bring the witness in.

6 Madam, how long -- how much longer do you think you'll take?

7 MS. RICHTEROVA: Everybody is asking me. I would like to finish

8 before the first break, which will be 4.00 but it's -- I would like to

9 finish.

10 JUDGE AGIUS: And after that, how long do you reckon you need,

11 Mr. Ackerman?

12 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour my best guess is that I have about an

13 hour. Maybe a little more. Similar to yesterday.

14 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. Okay. So try to keep it as short as

15 possible, both of you, and stick to the most important, most relevant

16 issues. Is Ms. Korner back or not yet?

17 MS. RICHTEROVA: Not yet. She will be back on Tuesday.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: All right.

19 [The witness entered court]

20 JUDGE AGIUS: So be prepared, please, Wednesday or Thursday at the

21 latest, we thrash out what's going to happen after the next two weeks.

22 MR. ACKERMAN: I think I'll be ready to report to you on Monday,

23 Your Honour.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: That's great, thank you but we will need to discuss

25 it in any case.

Page 14949

1 Good afternoon to you, sir.

2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good afternoon.

3 JUDGE AGIUS: Can you follow me in a language that you can

4 understand?

5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, I can.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: So the usher is going to give you again the text of

7 the solemn declaration which I kindly ask you to repeat before you

8 continue.

9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak

10 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.


12 [Witness answered through interpreter]

13 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. You may sit down.

14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

15 JUDGE AGIUS: And Madam Richterova will be continuing with her

16 examination-in-chief. Yes.

17 Examination by Ms. Richterova: [Continued]

18 Q. Sir, before the break yesterday, we were talking among others

19 about the transfer of the TO weapons to Banja Luka. Were you given a

20 reason why these weapons were transferred?

21 A. Yes. It was Darko Savic, the manager of Daljan barracks who

22 explained this to me.

23 Q. And what did he tell you?

24 A. He told me that the JNA had decided that the weapons should be

25 relocated from the Daljan barracks to one of the Banja Luka barracks. So

Page 14950

1 in order to avoid any theft from the barracks, and he also informed me of

2 the fact that the weapons were not safe in the Daljan barracks.

3 Q. And was it a normal procedure, that the JNA would decide how to

4 deal with weapons which belonged to TO?

5 A. Of course, I reacted to what he had said. I told him that this

6 was not all right, that the weapons were pretty safe in Daljan, and I also

7 offered that it be provided further security by a mixed police group but

8 he nevertheless went to Banja Luka.

9 Q. Did you say he or that the weapons left for Banja Luka?

10 A. The weapons left for Banja Luka.

11 Q. Yesterday, we were also talking about the elections and you said,

12 and it is from your transcript, that the SDA and SDS won. Do you remember

13 which of these two parties won more seats?

14 A. The SDA got more seats.

15 Q. And do you know who was after that elected as the President of the

16 municipality?

17 A. Mr. Kemal Terzic was elected president of the municipality.

18 Q. What is his ethnicity?

19 A. Bosniak.

20 Q. And who was the President of the municipal executive board?

21 A. I think it was Zoran Glisic.

22 Q. And what was his ethnicity?

23 A. He was a Serb.

24 Q. Yesterday, you also mentioned that you, in your capacity as the

25 commander of the TO, you attended some of the municipal assembly meetings

Page 14951

1 and you knew the agenda. I would like to show you now a few documents,

2 and if you could make a comment on them?

3 The first one is Exhibit P1702. This document is dated 23rd

4 December, 1991, it was issued by Serbian Democratic Party of Bosnia and

5 Herzegovina, Donji Vakuf, and it says, among others, "At the session of

6 the Donji Vakuf municipal assembly, held on 12 December, 1991, the

7 following question was asked by the socialist democratic party board

8 member," and this document is referring to the plebiscite of the Serbian

9 people. Do you know anything about the plebiscite which would take place

10 in the Donji Vakuf municipality?

11 A. Obviously I knew that a plebiscite was going to be held in Donji

12 Vakuf, and -- well, I was aware of it.

13 Q. Do you remember whether there were some public meetings where this

14 plebiscite would be discussed?

15 A. I attended several meetings where the plebiscite was not much

16 discussed. The meetings included both the SDS and SDA, but I do not

17 remember the details.

18 Q. And it was the -- this document states that the initiative to

19 separate part of the Donji Vakuf municipality should be raised. Was

20 anything like that discussed? I mean division of the municipality.

21 A. These decisions were usually reached on an interparty basis, on

22 the basis of agreements reached by SDS and SDA. I never attended such

23 interparty meetings. However, within the municipal assembly, I mean I was

24 never invited to attend such meetings or I would be present for a couple

25 of minutes and then would leave.

Page 14952

1 Q. I would like to show you another document. It's P1703. It is

2 document dated 13 of January, 1992. It's again Serbian Democratic Party,

3 Donji Vakuf, and it says, "The Serbian people of our municipality decided

4 at a plebiscite on 10 November, 1991, to join the SAO Krajina and the

5 following members of the assembly of the SAO Bosanska Krajina would be" --

6 and now we have the list of seven people. These seven people, these

7 people, were they members of Donji Vakuf municipal assembly?

8 A. I don't know whether all of them were members. But in all

9 likelihood, some of them were.

10 Q. And this document is specific about this plebiscite. It took

11 place on 10 November, 1991. Do you know whether all ethnicities

12 participated in this plebiscite?

13 A. No, only Serbs.

14 Q. And also assembly of SAO Bosanska Krajina is mentioned here. Do

15 you know whether these people participated in any meetings in assembly of

16 the Bosanska Krajina?

17 A. I know these men personally. I used to know them. And I met with

18 a couple of them even after the conflict. I knew that they attended the

19 assembly, I don't know whether all of them did, but some of them I am sure

20 did.

21 Q. Did you ever discuss with them or with anybody else their

22 participation in the work of the assembly of the SAO Bosanska Krajina?

23 A. Discussions about their participation in some of the institutions

24 of the SAO Krajina were never held. We never talked about those things.

25 But from these conversations, I was able to conclude that they went to

Page 14953

1 Banja Luka occasionally.

2 Q. And at that time, which is January, was the municipal assembly in

3 Donji Vakuf still functioning?

4 A. Bodies of the municipal assembly in Donji Vakuf were still

5 functioning but I don't think that sessions were convened, sessions of the

6 municipal assembly that would have been attended by the deputies.

7 However, various municipal bodies did work.

8 Q. I will show you document P1704. And this document says that based

9 on the will of the Serbian people in Donji Vakuf, expressed in the

10 plebiscite held on 9 and 10 November at its meeting held on 15 February,

11 the assembly of the Serbian Municipality of Donji Vakuf passed the

12 decision for the Serbian Municipality of Donji Vakuf to join the

13 Autonomous Region of Krajina. It is dated 15 of February, 1992. Did you

14 know that at that time the Serbian Municipality of Donji Vakuf was formed

15 and that this Serbian Municipality of Donji Vakuf joined the Autonomous

16 Region of Krajina?

17 A. I did, because it was not a secret.

18 Q. Was it ever discussed during the assembly meetings, the

19 possibility, first, to establish the Serbian municipality and second to

20 the joint -- to join the Autonomous Region of Krajina?

21 A. I don't know whether such issues were ever discussed, but I know

22 that interparty negotiations were being held, that there was a lot of

23 arguing going on, and I know that the SDS had their own plan on the basis

24 of which they operated, regardless of any agreement.

25 Q. Do you happen to remember that there would be some preparations to

Page 14954

1 create this Serbian Municipality of Donji Vakuf by collecting some

2 informations?

3 A. I remember that one of my employees, my assistant at the TO staff,

4 publicly worked for the Serbian organs, that is for the bodies of the

5 Serbian Municipality of Donji Vakuf, which were being established at the

6 time, that they were drafting some sort of maps that I was of course able

7 to see.

8 Q. You just said drafting some maps, and you saw them. What were

9 these maps about?

10 A. Those maps were done on the basis of some very old historical

11 maps. The purpose was to delineate accurately Serb land as opposed to the

12 land which belonged to other ethnicities.

13 MS. RICHTEROVA: Can the witness be shown the map which we

14 exhibited yesterday under 1692?

15 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Mr. Ackerman?

16 MR. ACKERMAN: I'm just going to get the map.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: Oh, I'm sorry.


19 Q. And at the same time I would like to show the witness Exhibit

20 P1605. And this is the decision on establishment of the Serbian

21 Municipality of Donji Vakuf, and it says, among others, "These are the

22 area of the Serbian Municipality of Donji Vakuf -- or the area of the

23 Serbian Municipality of Donji Vakuf shall comprise, A, the local communes,

24 B, settlements, C, parts of inhabited urban and rural local communes."

25 And again the date is 15 of February.

Page 14955

1 My question is: You had the opportunity to have a look at this

2 document. As a person familiar with the distribution of ethnic groups

3 within the municipality, would this proposed division have been practical?

4 A. I think, and I know for a fact, that it would have been impossible

5 to divide the area in this manner. What you have here is actually all of

6 the villages and hamlets of this local community which were inhabited by

7 Serbs.

8 Q. So would it have allowed normal functioning of divided

9 municipality?

10 A. No.

11 Q. And can you -- the reason why I had the map prepared for you, if

12 you could show us the areas with Serb villages, according to this

13 proposal, in interaction with Muslim villages? Because you just said that

14 it couldn't function normally. If you could give us explanation why you

15 think it wouldn't function?

16 A. [No interpretation]

17 JUDGE AGIUS: [Microphone not activated] One moment. Stop,

18 please. Neither Judge Taya nor myself we are not receiving any

19 interpretation in English.

20 THE INTERPRETER: Can you hear now?

21 JUDGE AGIUS: [Microphone not activated] Sir, can I ask to you

22 repeat your answer starting from the beginning, the question was: Can

23 you --

24 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.

25 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. And can you, the reason why I had the map

Page 14956

1 prepared for you, if you could show us the areas with Serb villages

2 according to this proposal and interaction with Muslim villages because

3 you just said that it couldn't function normally, if you could give us an

4 explanation why you think it wouldn't function? And you had started

5 explaining why. Could you repeat what you said, please? Thank you.

6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] As I was saying, it couldn't

7 function because Serbs populated this area, this area, this part here, and

8 this part here, as well as Donji Vakuf. These same parts of the

9 municipality were populated by Muslims as well.


11 Q. So was it possible to separate them so both ethnicities had the

12 same facilities, the same access to the town of Donji Vakuf, and main

13 offices?

14 A. That was impossible.

15 Q. Thank you. I'm done with this document.

16 MS. RICHTEROVA: I would like to show the witness Exhibit P1708.

17 It's again a document dated the 15th of February, 1992. It says,

18 "Decision to appoint a president of the assembly of the Serbian

19 Municipality of Donji Vakuf, professor Nikica Zagorac. Did you know that

20 Nikica Zagorac was appointed to the post of president?

21 A. Yes, and I congratulated him on it. I told him, "Aren't you

22 ashamed?" He didn't reply.

23 Q. Did you know Nikica Zagorac from before?

24 A. Yes, we knew each other very well. We used to work together in

25 high school.

Page 14957

1 Q. Was he a teacher?

2 A. Yes. He was a teacher of mathematics, and I used to teach defence

3 and protection.

4 MS. RICHTEROVA: I would like to show the last document from this

5 area, and of the same day. It's P1706.

6 Q. And this is -- these are minutes of the constitutional session of

7 the assembly of the Serbian Municipality of Donji Vakuf, held on 15 of

8 February. You said yesterday that your office was in the same building as

9 the municipal -- it was in the building of the -- I'm sorry, you said in

10 the municipal building. Were you aware of this session?

11 A. No, I wasn't, and I very much doubt that it was held at the

12 municipal assembly at all.

13 Q. And on the second page, it says, the proposal was adopted, that

14 the former assemblymen of the Donji Vakuf municipal assembly be

15 appointed -- I'm sorry, for you, it is the same page in original language.

16 All be appointed members of the assembly of the Serbian Municipality of

17 Donji Vakuf. Did you know whether these 30 or 33 persons were members or

18 formerly appointed, elected municipal assembly?

19 A. I think some of them were, some weren't. Most of these people I

20 knew.

21 Q. And to your knowledge, either you already said that you are not

22 aware of this meeting which took place on 15 of February. To your

23 knowledge, were there any meetings of the Serbian municipal assembly which

24 would be held in the municipal building?

25 A. No. I didn't know about any such thing because I doubt very much

Page 14958

1 they were held during working hours. What happened after working hours, I

2 really couldn't say.

3 Q. And after 15 of February, are you aware of any meeting of the

4 other municipal assembly? And when I'm saying "the other," I mean the

5 assembly which was elected in 1991.

6 A. I don't remember.

7 Q. But were you -- were you ever invited to the meeting or to the

8 meetings of municipal assembly after 15 -- after February 15?

9 A. No.

10 Q. I'm done with this document. In your capacity as the commander of

11 the TO, were you -- were you a part of some other official organ within

12 the municipality of Donji Vakuf?

13 A. I was a member of the council for National Defence for the

14 municipality of Donji Vakuf.

15 Q. And who were the members of the National Defence Council?

16 A. As far as I can remember, the President of the National Defence

17 Council was the President of the municipality. His deputy was president

18 of the executive board at the time, Glisic was his name. Then there was

19 the chief of the police department, otherwise called MUP. He was

20 commander of the municipal staff. Then there was the secretary of the

21 National Defence Secretariat, and the administrator of the Daljan

22 barracks, Darko Samac -- Savic. There may have been other people but I

23 don't remember them.

24 Q. And according to ethnicities, was it a mix or were they just

25 members of one ethnicity?

Page 14959

1 A. Different ethnicities.

2 Q. And did you, in 1992, did you attend the meetings of National

3 Defence Council?

4 A. I did.

5 Q. And did you make notes about issues which were discussed at this

6 council?

7 A. Yes, I did.

8 Q. I would like to go through some notes which the witness made about

9 the events, and so I would like to show the witness Exhibit 1693, which is

10 the diary. And in the diary, I am referring now to the page, translation,

11 0306-0164, which is page 7, and for the witness, it is page marked by

12 identification number 0207-2300.

13 Can the usher help the witness?

14 In fact, I apologise, it already starts on page 6, for the English

15 translation. It is National Defence Council. It says 10 of February,

16 1991, but from the notes which follow, it's obvious that it is the year

17 1992, that it's just a typo, and if you go to the further -- to the next

18 page, in B/C/S, to the page 0207-2301, and on the left-hand side, there is

19 a name Nasmija it says the state of combat readiness in the municipality

20 TO has been impaired. Can you see it?

21 A. Yes, I can.

22 Q. Can you make a comment to this note, to this entry?

23 A. At this time, we are talking about February, very serious things

24 were happening that disturbed the balance of not only interethnic

25 relations but also the state of combat readiness at the Donji Vakuf TO

Page 14960

1 staff. The very fact that the weaponry was located in Banja Luka, the

2 weaponry of the TO, that is away from Donji Vakuf, meant that the state of

3 combat readiness was not as it should have been.

4 Q. And it goes on as lack of coordination in the work of the parties

5 in power. What did you mean by this entry?

6 A. I meant that one party was working in circumvention of the law,

7 establishing its own municipal organs which had the attribute of Serbian

8 organs, whereas joint organs and agencies, which were supposed to be

9 functioning at the time, were not operating.

10 Q. You said that SDS was creating their own offices and organs. What

11 was the relationship between the SDA and SDS at that time, if you can make

12 any comment on that?

13 A. Their relationship was out of kilter. They tried to reach some

14 agreements but even when they succeeded, the SDS never adhered to that

15 agreement.

16 Q. And this National Defence Council, the people were members of

17 mostly both these leading parties, and you mentioned that they couldn't

18 make any agreement. Do you remember what kind of proposals were

19 discussed?

20 A. Most often they discussed law enforcement, since armed men were

21 walking about in the streets, wearing Chetnik emblems, emblems of an army

22 which was not our army. Furthermore, they talked about the establishment

23 of joint guards, joint guard posts, joint control of vital facilities in

24 the territory of the Donji Vakuf municipality, and about the establishment

25 of joint checkpoints along thoroughfares, along most important

Page 14961

1 communications.

2 Q. You say joint checkpoints. What was the reality?

3 A. It was a realistic idea. It was feasible. However, the SDS did

4 not accept this. They did make certain promises but eventually none of

5 these ideas and requests or agreements was ever -- ever came to anything.

6 Q. Just quickly talking about these checkpoints, do you know where

7 and when these checkpoints were set up?

8 A. I know there was one checkpoint by the so-called Filbar bridge.

9 Another checkpoint was at the exit from Donji Vakuf, in the direction of

10 Bugojno, approximately 200 metres down the road towards Bugojno, counting

11 from the petrol station. And then in February, March and April, a

12 checkpoint was set up more than once on the road towards Oborci by several

13 members of the Serb community, led by Nenad Svemir.

14 Q. And are you able to tell us who manned these checkpoints?

15 A. They were manned by people from Donji Vakuf, local residents, who

16 had been mobilised into one of the units that existed at the time. I

17 didn't know which particular unit, but I knew that it was commanded by an

18 officer of the JNA.

19 Q. And you said they were manned by people from Donji Vakuf. Were

20 they manned by Serbs, by Muslims, by Croats? Whom are you referring to?

21 A. I mean Serbs.

22 Q. And what about Muslims? Did they set up their checkpoints, let's

23 say in Muslim villages?

24 A. No, they never did. They never set up a single checkpoint

25 anywhere.

Page 14962

1 Q. Then we have another note. It is 5th of March, and it says, the

2 security situation in the municipality is critical.

3 What were you referring to in this entry?

4 A. I was referring to the things that I've just spoken about, namely

5 the fact that members of one community were arming themselves and

6 preparing for war, and this was clear to everyone, whereas others were

7 standing by watching idly.

8 Q. When you are saying that it was clear that one community were

9 arming themselves and preparing for war, arming, what did you or what do

10 you know about the arming of Serbs? Did you ever see that civilians would

11 be armed? And I'm referring to the year 1991, beginning of 1992.

12 A. I had already heard, in 1991, and 1992, that Serbs were arming

13 themselves and I even had some information from my own father, who was

14 working at the health centre, that every morning, the drivers who were

15 employed at the health centre were coming back to their pool with dirty

16 vehicles and discussed openly where they had been that day, where they had

17 been carrying weaponry. I also had more information from talking to the

18 Serbs.

19 Q. And --

20 A. And specifically, those Serbs who had been offered to receive

21 weapons on several occasions, and they refused. They didn't want to take

22 any. And they addressed me in my official capacity, asking for my help.

23 My suspicions were confirmed when the bridge was blown up. I think it

24 happened on the 30th of April, when all the Serbs rushed out of their

25 homes wearing civilian clothes but carrying weapons, rifles, some of them

Page 14963

1 even had machine guns. It was then I realised I had been right all along

2 and that the information I had been getting was of good quality, the

3 information concerning such activities.

4 Q. Now I would like to move to the entry under the 2nd of April,

5 1992, and in English it is page 9, and in B/C/S, it is 0207-2305. It

6 says, under the point 2, political situation, "Request by the SDS to

7 divide institutions, MUP, municipal assembly and bank." Can you make just

8 brief comment to this? Did you know or did you -- were you aware of a

9 division of power, division of MUP, banks and other institutions?

10 A. Yes. I was aware of such things. They were discussed openly and

11 publicly. However, about this date, it's -- when they insisted that the

12 distribution begin.

13 Q. Then you made a comment, "Formation of mono-ethnic JNA unit."

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Can you make a comment on this entry?

16 A. That was clear to everyone in Donji Vakuf, abundantly clear. Many

17 Serbs were strutting around in streets carrying weapons, wearing

18 uniforms. We knew roughly who was in which unit. Everybody could see

19 this with their own eyes, everybody was aware of those mono-ethnic units.

20 Q. And just to confirm, mono-ethnic JNA units, are you referring to

21 Serbs, Muslims or Croats?

22 A. I mean Serbs.

23 Q. And under D, construction of the bridge on the Vrbas River, can

24 you -- can you tell us which bridge you were referring to in this note?

25 A. The bridge over the Vrbas River, upstream from the city of Donji

Page 14964

1 Vakuf. It was a makeshift bridge, intended only for pedestrians.

2 MS. RICHTEROVA: Can the witness be shown again the map so he can

3 assist the Judges where the bridge was supposed to be built?

4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Here.


6 Q. And what was the purpose of building this bridge?

7 A. The purpose of building this bridge was to enable in a potential

8 untoward situation, to enable the Serbs who lived in the villages of

9 Brezicani and other neighbouring hamlets, to come to Donji Vakuf, without

10 having to pass through Muslim-inhabited locations.

11 Q. And can you show on the map where were these Serb hamlets and

12 villages and these Muslim hamlets and villages which they wanted to

13 avoid?

14 A. The village of Cehajici is a predominantly Muslim village, as is

15 the Karici village, but these two villages are not located on this route,

16 on this communication. Then there is the village of Brezicani, which is

17 an exclusively Serb village and a number of other hamlets situated around

18 Brezicani, such as Fonjge, Petkovici and others.

19 Q. Can you please mark the place where this bridge was supposed to be

20 built with B?

21 JUDGE AGIUS: Are you asking him to mark on the same map that has

22 been written upon by --

23 MS. RICHTEROVA: Yes, yes, on this map, if he would be so kind.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: All right, the same one.

25 MS. RICHTEROVA: The same one.

Page 14965

1 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. He has already marked an X on that map, no?

2 MS. RICHTEROVA: Yes, it is location of the Daljan barracks.

3 JUDGE AGIUS: So what we will do, sir, is we'll go through the

4 same procedure. You will put a mark now as a B, B, and then next to,

5 please, make or put your initials, like last time, like yesterday.

6 THE WITNESS: [Marks]

7 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Thank you.


9 Q. And was this bridge constructed?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And just to clarify, that it was the proposal of the Serb part to

12 build this bridge or the Muslim part?

13 A. This bridge was built by local Serbs. It was built in a record

14 time. They worked even during the night.

15 Q. Now I would like to start slightly different subject, just because

16 we have here your diary, and I would like you to go to the page 8, and in

17 B/C/S, it is the previous page, because I cannot see the ERN number at the

18 top. There is a mark on the left-hand side, handwritten mark, 25. Is it

19 correct? Can you see it? And it starts, "The reserve strength of the

20 Daljan war unit was mobilised on 28 and 29 March." Can you see it?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Before I go to your notes, I would like to ask you a few questions

23 about the mobilisation. When mobilisation started in the Donji Vakuf

24 municipality?

25 A. According to the information that I had, the mobilisation started

Page 14966

1 in late March, 1992.

2 Q. And normally, who would carry out the mobilisation?

3 A. Mobilisation of reserve units that we had in Donji Vakuf was

4 normally carried out in accordance with the relevant statutory provisions

5 by the National Defence Secretariat.

6 Q. And the TO, how was the TO involved in mobilisation?

7 A. During the mobilisation of personnel, the National Defence

8 Secretariat was only in charge of informing every individual member of a

9 reserve unit of its obligation to report to the assembly point, where we,

10 from the Territorial Defence staff waited and took over these people with

11 whom we then continued working as required.

12 Q. In your diary, it says, "The reserve strength of the Doljan war

13 unit was called up using their own messenger service, with a third copy of

14 call-up papers which were being kept by this war unit. I have no

15 objections to this type of mobilisation that need to be reviewed here.

16 However, mobilisation of the war unit that was formed in the municipality

17 area is not regular and represents a gross impairment of interethnic

18 relations in Donji Vakuf Municipality area. The mobilisation was not

19 conducted by the competent National Defence Council organ which is

20 operating on behalf -- I'm sorry, or military territorial district organ

21 which is operating on behalf of the JNA.

22 Can you make a comment on this? What did you observe in Donji

23 Vakuf in respect to the mobilisations?

24 A. I wrote here that a mobilisation of a small reserve unit had been

25 carried out, whose assembly area was in Daljan barracks. It was under the

Page 14967

1 command of the administrator of the Daljan barracks and I had nothing to

2 do with this particular unit. However, the mobilisation of a war unit of

3 the 19th Brigade, which was being established in the territory of the

4 municipality and whose strength was higher than the municipal TO staff or

5 this Daljani unit, is mentioned here. I made note of that here in my

6 records. And this is just one of the reports that was sent to the

7 district TO staff.

8 Q. So who mobilised this unit? You say that it wasn't conducted

9 according to rules. So who conducted this mobilisation?

10 A. This particular mobilisation was carried out by SDS.

11 Q. And who did they call up? Were call-up papers distributed to all

12 nationalities living in the Donji Vakuf municipality?

13 A. No. Only Serbs were called up and only Serbs responded.

14 Q. You mentioned that you were also responsible, you as the commander

15 of the TO, you were responsible for training of reserve units. At that

16 time, did any trainings took place?

17 A. No. The municipal TO did not organise any trainings but I know

18 that this Serb personnel that was called up was trained by JNA officers.

19 Q. And how did you learn this information?

20 A. From the conversations that I had with these people. It was not a

21 secret. An entire village, the village of Kutanja where two of my

22 employees lived, went to the area of Ravna Gradina where training took

23 place, not one training but several trainings.

24 Q. And when you are referring to two of your employees, were they

25 Serbs or were they Muslims?

Page 14968

1 A. Serbs.

2 Q. And did they tell you what went on?

3 A. Yes. One of my employees told me this. He said that he had been

4 called up too but that he was not ready to go to participate in this

5 training, or rather that he was not willing to take part in this training,

6 and interestingly, he asked me to make him part of the unit which was

7 located in Daljan barracks, if he had to take up weapons, which is what I

8 did, pursuant to his request. I asked Darko Savic to do that and he made

9 him a member of his group.

10 Q. You also mentioned a second ago this 19th Brigade. When this

11 brigade was formed and who formed it?

12 A. According to what I know, this brigade was established as early as

13 the end of March. All of the units had been established by that time. I

14 know that these units were established by JNA members who had been sent

15 from Banja Luka with this specific assignment.

16 Q. And was it -- was it normal to form this unit or what would be

17 normal procedure, if it wasn't normal?

18 A. This was by no means a normal procedure. This unit, in a document

19 entitled, "Plan on mobilisational developments," was not envisaged in the

20 area of Donji Vakuf municipality.

21 Q. What would be normal procedure?

22 A. In accordance with normal procedures, the ministry, that is the

23 National Defence Secretariat, must receive an order to perform a

24 mobilisation, and a municipal staff has to receive an order from the

25 district or the republican staff, an order to carry out a mobilisation,

Page 14969

1 after which we have to carry out this mobilisation of the reserve force

2 units which would then have to be made part of the Donji Vakuf municipal

3 TO.

4 Q. I will return back to your diary, and it says, on the bottom of

5 page 8, of English version, I'm not quite sure whether you would be able

6 to see it properly in this version, but it says, "The mobilisation was

7 carried out in secret and members of just one ethnic group were called

8 up." Can you make a brief comment on this?

9 A. Yes. The call-up was secret. It was partly concealed. The

10 messengers were Serbs only and Serbs only were being called up.

11 Q. And your comment continues on the following page, in English

12 version, "I feel such behaviour by the JNA to be extremely incorrect

13 because, as the commander of this formation said, that one ethnic group

14 requested the protection of the JNA, so I wonder what would happen if

15 Muslims requested protection. Would the JNA call up only Muslims?" So

16 again just a brief comment on this. Were Muslims called up for the

17 mobilisation?

18 A. No, not a single one.

19 Q. And the last comment is, "Another problem that occurred with the

20 mobilisation of this formation is that a number of the Muslim -- of the

21 municipality TO members are in these units." Are you here again referring

22 to the formation of the 19th Brigade?

23 A. Yes. That is part of the personnel, that is 60 per cent of

24 personnel, from the TO units, who were members of the 19th Brigade,

25 practically speaking.

Page 14970

1 Q. Do you know who was the commander of this 19th Brigade?

2 A. He introduced himself as a Colonel or Lieutenant Colonel Kostic.

3 Later I heard that he was an ex-JNA officer who had retired but was

4 reactivated in the JNA pursuant to a SDS request.

5 Q. What was the reaction of the SDA and Muslim population to this

6 situation, to this mobilisation, and to this situation?

7 A. I really cannot describe this, because people were afraid.

8 Q. Did you ever try to obtain weapons for Muslim population to -- for

9 their own protection?

10 A. No.

11 Q. Following the mobilisation and the development of the situation,

12 were there other meetings, other negotiations between the SDA members and

13 SDS, to your knowledge?

14 A. There were talks on several occasions. The agenda was similar.

15 It concerned mainly establishment of joint checkpoints, which would have

16 been manned by -- both by members of -- which would have been manned by

17 members of the Bosniak ethnicity as well, that the police should finally

18 disarm people who walked around the streets intoxicated and often opened

19 fire from the rifles they carried around. But this was all to no avail.

20 Q. In your diary, you also mention, it's somewhere at the beginning,

21 that there were paramilitary formations. This entry appears for the time,

22 for the period of 1991 -- end of 1991, beginning of 1992. Whom do you

23 refer as paramilitary formations?

24 A. I was referring mainly to people who were wearing civilian clothes

25 but were armed to the hilt, and who stood guard on the access roads to

Page 14971

1 neighbouring villages. After night fall, it was no longer possible for

2 anyone to enter the villages inhabited by Serbs. As far as I'm concerned,

3 they were members of paramilitary formations, because they had their own

4 commanders, and were armed.

5 Q. And did you know any of these commanders? Do you know any names?

6 A. Every single village had its own commander.

7 Q. And here you said that there were paramilitary formations in Serb

8 villages, are you aware of any paramilitary formations which would be

9 manned by Muslims or Croats on the territory of the Donji Vakuf

10 municipality?

11 A. From what I heard, and was also able to see, in my local commune,

12 Muslims too stood guard outside their houses, their buildings, in the

13 streets, but were not armed because they didn't have any weapons.

14 Q. And in villages, Muslim villages, these people, did they have some

15 weapons?

16 A. Yes, they did. Often they had military weapons, but some had

17 hunting weapons as well.

18 Q. And you say they had military weapons. How did they obtain these

19 weapons?

20 A. Well, in the end, I was able to conclude that the weapons had come

21 from the army. I know that the SDS distributed weapons, and it was only

22 the army and the Territorial Defence reserve force that had weapons,

23 military weapons.

24 Q. But I asked you about Muslim villages, and you said that there

25 were military weapons, so I'm asking how these Muslim obtained these

Page 14972












12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and

13 English transcripts. Pages 14972 to 14976.













Page 14977

1 military weapons.

2 A. No, no. I said that Muslims stood guard, but were not armed.

3 Q. And if there were any guards in Muslim villages, did they have any

4 type of weapons, hunting, military, pistols, just any kind of weapons?

5 A. Those who had weapons didn't dare to carry it because it would

6 have been confiscated, and they would have been arrested and taken to the

7 police.

8 Q. I would like to show you some more documents. Do you want to have

9 a break now?


11 MS. RICHTEROVA: After the break, I will have 30 more minutes,

12 just go through the documents, and that's all.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: Can I ask for your cooperation and have a very short

14 break? I suggest ten minutes only.

15 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour I really don't think that's possible.

16 We have no facilities on this floor any more so I have to go some

17 distance. I assume my client has the same problem, plus I need to talk

18 with him so I'd really ask for 20 minutes.

19 JUDGE AGIUS: 20 minutes, okay.

20 --- Recess taken at 4.00 p.m.

21 --- On resuming at 4.25 p.m.


23 MS. RICHTEROVA: I am done with the diary and I would like to show

24 the witness Exhibit 1711.

25 Q. This document is dated 14th of April, 1992. These are minutes of

Page 14978

1 the second session of the assembly of the Serbian Municipality of Donji

2 Vakuf, held on 14 of April, 1992. 14th of April, 1992, is also the day

3 when you stopped working, is it correct?

4 A. Yes. Roughly.

5 Q. In this -- in these minutes, it says, Zoran Glisic said that he

6 had pointed out that the council for National Defence was not competent to

7 decide on -- probably -- division and that the SDA and SDS should be in

8 charge of this issue.

9 In your diary, there was an entry for 14 of April as well, and you

10 continued discussing the situation in Donji Vakuf. Do you remember

11 whether -- or do you recall whether the higher SDS leaders were going to

12 Banja Luka to conduct some meetings or whatever?

13 A. I remember they did go to Banja Luka, but I don't know whether

14 they went there for meetings or possibly discussions and negotiations.

15 Q. And when we are talking about higher SDS leaders, who are these --

16 or who were these people? Do you know any names?

17 A. Generally speaking, I know that Nedjeljko Ninkovic, Gojko

18 Ninkovic, Zagorac, Nikica Zagorac and some other people took the most

19 prominent part in these activities.

20 Q. Do you know the name Nikola Kisin?

21 A. Yes. He too was one of the leaders of the Donji Vakuf SDS.

22 Q. And these minutes go on page 3, like on the page 3 of English

23 version, in B/C/S version it is the second page, when it says, "Gojko

24 Ninkovic said that our citizens had been mobilised to the TO, which was

25 growing into the JNA. The mobilisation of the entire population and the

Page 14979

1 preparation of the territory are on the way." Can you make just very

2 brief comment on this entry?

3 A. I have already spoken about this. It means that the SDS was

4 making intensive preparations in that territory, conducting the

5 distribution of weapons and ultimately mobilised men into its own units,

6 setting up these units, and this is probably the conclusion of all the

7 activities that had taken place beforehand, and he's probably just taking

8 note of this fact at the meeting.

9 Q. And I will read another of his comments: "We shall have as much

10 territory as we are organised and prepared to defend."

11 On the page 5 of English version --

12 JUDGE JANU: Madam Richterova, please before you move away from

13 this, can you clarify, was the name of gentleman you mentioned Ninkovic,

14 Gojko or Nedjeljko, if the witness can assist us? Nedjeljko or Gojko?

15 You said Gojko but I think it was Nedjeljko? Do you know his first name?

16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Gojko, G-O-J-K-O, we are talking

17 about two brothers, Gojko and Nedjeljko. Gojko was in charge of

18 conducting these activities while Nedjeljko was I believe president of the

19 SDS.

20 JUDGE JANU: Thank you very much. So both brothers were engaged

21 in politics, thank you.


23 Q. It is the last page in B/C/S, under the point 4, it says, the

24 assembly adopted a decision on establishing a Serbian SJB, in the Serbian

25 Municipality of Donji Vakuf, Rajko Kisin was appointed SJB chief, Jovo

Page 14980

1 Satara was appointed SJB commander and Zoran Ilic, deputy commander.

2 Is it correct? Do you remember that there would be a division of

3 the SJB?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. I have just one question. There was this secretary of the

6 municipal secretariat for people's defence. Do you happen to know who

7 was -- who held this position?

8 A. Secretary of the National Defence Secretariat was Mile Ilic.

9 Q. And this Zoran Ilic, deputy commander, was he a relative to Mile

10 Ilic, to your knowledge?

11 A. Don't know. I don't know whether the two were related.

12 Q. And the following point, 6, it says, "Miodrag Jandric said that at

13 its session held on 11 April, 1992, the Assembly of the Serbian People of

14 Autonomous Region of Krajina had adopted a decision on establishing the

15 SDK and that we had to decide how we should deal with this issue in the

16 territory of the Serbian Municipality of Donji Vakuf." Do you know

17 whether the SDK was separated and joined Banja Luka SDK?

18 A. I believe that in this period, not all the documentation had been

19 completed about the dissociation of their SDK. It was probably done later

20 but I'm not aware of the details.

21 Q. The next point is 7, "The assembly unanimously decided that all

22 paramilitary formations in the territory of the Serbian Municipality of

23 Donji Vakuf should be disarmed and placed under the single command of the

24 JNA."

25 Do you know what they are referring to? Which paramilitary

Page 14981

1 formations are here mentioning?

2 A. What is meant here are the formations which had already been

3 established in this period, and it was clear that they were under nobody's

4 control. Along roads they stopped private vehicles, buses, and they

5 robbed people, including some Serbs.

6 Q. And to your knowledge, were they put under the command of JNA?

7 A. Not while I was in Donji Vakuf.

8 Q. Now I would like to show the witness Exhibit 1715 and 1718. Let's

9 start with 1715. This document is dated 29 April, 1992, and I only have

10 slight problem because it says further that at its session on 14th May,

11 1992, the Crisis Staff of the municipality of Donji Vakuf adopted the

12 following decision, decision on the change of organisational link, and it

13 says SDK Donji Vakuf branch, join an organisational link up with the

14 social accountancy service of Banja Luka, and it withdraw from the

15 regional Bugojno branch office.

16 Do you know whether it happened in April or in May?

17 A. I wouldn't know.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: For the record, Madam Richterova, is the document

19 that I see on the ELMO your document, Prosecution's document, or is it the

20 registry's?

21 MS. RICHTEROVA: This is a copy and here I was informed that there

22 was a marking but it was marking on English. I can immediately replace

23 it.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: Just for the future, try to avoid handing documents

25 which are marked or highlighted or whatever.

Page 14982

1 MS. RICHTEROVA: I can immediately replace it.

2 JUDGE AGIUS: This is not exactly something serious but just for

3 the future.

4 MS. RICHTEROVA: I apologise.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: No problem, Madam Richterova, I know it was done

6 inadvertently.

7 MS. RICHTEROVA: The other document is 14 -- date 14 May, 1992 and

8 it's Exhibit 1718.

9 Q. And a decision to end payments between the Donji Vakuf SDK, local

10 branch and to Bugojno SDK regional branch and redirect them to the Banja

11 Luka regional branch. What I am interested in in this document is Crisis

12 Staff. This document says, the title of this document, is, "Republic of

13 Bosnia-Herzegovina, Donji Vakuf Municipality Crisis Staff." Do you know

14 at the time you were in Donji Vakuf, was Crisis Staff established?

15 A. I believe it was. But this Crisis Staff was a joint one.

16 Q. And this joint Crisis Staff, when was it established?

17 A. I think in January, towards the beginning of the year.

18 Q. You have January or towards the beginning of the year, and which

19 year are you referring to?

20 A. 1992.

21 Q. And who were the members of this joint Crisis Staff? Can you tell

22 us?

23 A. I don't know exactly who the members were but I know that the SDS

24 and the SDA had the most seats in it.

25 Q. And what was the purpose of that Crisis Staff, which was

Page 14983

1 established either in January or towards the -- towards the beginning of

2 the year 1992?

3 A. The purpose of the Crisis Staff was to deal with all specific

4 situations and incidents that could arise in the territory of Donji Vakuf

5 municipality.

6 Q. And do you know how long this initial Crisis Staff functioned?

7 A. I don't know.

8 Q. And do you know whether at some point there was another Crisis

9 Staff which would be manned only representatives of one ethnicity?

10 Ethnicities, either Muslims --

11 A. I really don't know.

12 Q. You don't know. You don't know whether in April or May there was

13 a Crisis Staff, either Muslim or Serb?

14 A. I don't know.

15 MS. RICHTEROVA: I would like to show the witness Exhibit P888?

16 It is in the binder. It is dated 19 April, 1992. If you take it in

17 chronological order. I apologise because these two SDK documents were

18 taken out of order. So if you go -- it is right behind 1713 in your

19 binder.

20 Q. And on the first page, we can read, "The 19" -- I will start from

21 the title. It's document of the 30th Partisan division command, and the

22 date is 19 of April, 1992. And in the middle of the page, it says, "19th

23 Partisan Brigade will conduct additional mobilisation in the

24 municipalities of Kupres, Bugojno and Donji Vakuf, with the mobilised

25 forces" just the first sentence. This 19th Partisan Brigade, is the same

Page 14984

1 Brigade you were referring to in your previous testimony? This 19th

2 Brigade?

3 A. Yes, yes.

4 MS. RICHTEROVA: Now I would like to show the witness Exhibit

5 P629. In English, I'm referring to the bottom part of the page number 1.

6 It's under point 3, situation on the ground. In B/C/S language, it is on

7 the second page.

8 Q. And it says, "Caution, fear and uncertainty are still present

9 among the population of all nationalities. It is particularly prominent

10 in the crisis municipalities such as Prijedor, Bosanski Novi, and among

11 them is also Donji Vakuf." This document is document which was issued by

12 5th Corps command and the date is 2nd of May, 1992. It is to the 2nd

13 Military District command. 2nd May, 1992, it is the time after the

14 destruction of the bridge over the Vrbas River. Can you just briefly

15 describe the atmosphere in the Donji Vakuf town and in the Donji Vakuf

16 municipality?

17 A. That day, when the bridge was blown up, I was visiting my father,

18 and when it happened, I ran to my apartment, and on the way, I ran into

19 Nedjeljko Ninkovic. He asked me to walk with him and that's how we got to

20 the residential buildings in Donji Vakuf. Perhaps some ten minutes after

21 the explosion. We watched together as both Serbs and Bosniaks came out of

22 their buildings. However, the Serbs were carrying rifles, whereas

23 Bosniaks had no weapons. Nedjeljko Ninkovic seemed very embarrassed and

24 he raised the racket, yelling at Serbs, "Why have you come out with your

25 weapons? There is no war going on." After this, I went to the place

Page 14985

1 where the bridge used to be, and I saw the ruins of the bridge and the

2 surrounding structures. Some of them were totally destroyed, 100 per cent

3 destroyed, and others were partially damaged.

4 Q. And --

5 JUDGE AGIUS: Just one moment, because we would have -- needed to

6 clarify this later on in any case. There has been throughout the

7 testimony of this witness today in particular various references to a

8 bridge. He marked on the map 16 -- I can't remember the exact number, and

9 with a D -- with a B, the bridge that he was referring to at the time,

10 which I understand was the makeshift bridge for pedestrians only that was

11 built in a very short time by the Serbs to enable them to reach Donji

12 Vakuf without having to pass through Muslim villages. This is not the

13 same bridge that was blown up on the 30th of April allegedly by Croats,

14 no? It's a different bridge.

15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

16 JUDGE AGIUS: All right.

17 [Trial Chamber confers]

18 JUDGE AGIUS: The bridge which was blown up on the 30th of April,

19 was it rebuilt, reconstructed, repaired or whatever?

20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Immediately after the explosion,

21 some two days later, the engineering units of the JNA started putting up a

22 prefab bridge.

23 JUDGE AGIUS: Our apologies to you, madam.

24 MS. RICHTEROVA: Your Honour, just to make it absolutely clear I

25 would like to show the witness Exhibit 1760.26 -- no marks.

Page 14986

1 Q. If you could have a look at this picture and tell us what we can

2 see on this picture?

3 A. This is a photograph taken after the war. This is the new bridge

4 that was built in the same place where the bridge that had been blown up

5 on the 30th of April, 1992, used to stand. In the background, behind the

6 bridge, on the right-hand side, you can see one house that was in the

7 process of construction and that was totally destroyed, and another house

8 that was also totally destroyed during the explosion.

9 Q. Thank you. I'm done with this picture and I would like to show

10 the witness Exhibit 631. This is again a military document, 5th Corps

11 command, dated 12th of May, 1992. I am referring to the point 3,

12 situation in the ground, which is in both cases in both languages on the

13 first page, and in B/C/S it goes to the second page. And it says, "The

14 Muslim and Croat population is moving out of the area of Donji Vakuf

15 towards Bugojno." Can you tell us what made these people leaving the

16 Donji Vakuf municipality or the Donji Vakuf town?

17 A. Well, briefly, the reason was the fear reigning in Donji Vakuf.

18 If you want to elaborate on this, I can corroborate this with some

19 facts that have to do with what the people of Muslim ethnicity in Donji

20 Vakuf experienced at the time.

21 Q. Yes, please. What they were afraid of?

22 A. The arming of the Serbs had begun and it was no secret in Donji

23 Vakuf. The mobilisation had been carried out. Many people had heard by

24 that time about the establishment of the Serbian Municipality of Donji

25 Vakuf, and they understood what this meant. Furthermore, there were

Page 14987

1 paramilitary formations, in other words armed men who were going around

2 looting, shooting, and intimidating the population. Then came the

3 explosion of the bridge, and the radio announcement in April saying that

4 all the people should turn over their weapons to the Serbian police

5 station or at the barracks, the military barracks. Everybody realised

6 then that searches would be carried out by the military police of the JNA

7 or by the Serbian police that had been established in the administrative

8 building of Konar --

9 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter didn't hear the name of the

10 building.

11 A. This radio announcement was the last drop that caused unrest among

12 the non-Serb population of Donji Vakuf and put them on edge. And as a

13 result, they stampeded out of Donji Vakuf on the 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th

14 of May, 1992.

15 Q. What these people took with them? Were they able to take what

16 they needed, what they wanted?

17 A. Trust me, it was a sorry scene. Women were crying. Most of them

18 carried only one plastic bag in their hands containing the bear

19 necessities, and they had to walk 12 kilometres to Bugojno in order to

20 save their necks.

21 Q. And do you know approximately how many people left during this

22 period of time, the Donji Vakuf municipality?

23 A. I think that by the -- by the 11th of May, 1992, 95 per cent of

24 the population, Muslim and Croat population, had left Donji Vakuf, at

25 least 95 per cent.

Page 14988

1 Q. I'm done with this document. I would like to show the witness

2 Exhibit 1764, and in your binders, it is the very last document.

3 JUDGE AGIUS: Will it be the very last question?


5 JUDGE AGIUS: All right.


7 Q. It is the last sentence of this military document, dated 13 of

8 May, 1992. It says, "Government representatives of the Muslim ethnicity

9 have left government organs in Donji Vakuf municipality so that authority

10 is now mainly being exercised by representatives of the Serbian people."

11 Were the authority exercised by the Serbian municipality just from 13 of

12 May or did they exercise the authority also before?

13 A. It is clear from the documents that we saw previously that they

14 had their organs of government with no Muslims. As far as I remember,

15 joint bodies stopped functioning as early as March or April. So this

16 military report seems strange. I mean, I wonder how come it -- they

17 didn't know about it.

18 Q. Thank you. I would like to show the witness Exhibit P51. It is a

19 document dated 14 May, 1992. It is a meeting with presidents of

20 municipalities in the zone of responsibility of the division. On the

21 first page, it says that the commander of the 30th Partisan division was

22 Colonel Stanislav Galic. Did you know at that time that 30th Partisan

23 Division under the command of Colonel Stanislav Galic was operating in

24 that area?

25 A. Yes.

Page 14989

1 Q. And was the 19th Brigade attached to the 30th Partisan Division,

2 to your knowledge?

3 A. It was, as far as I know.

4 Q. On the following page, you will see Donji Vakuf SO. It says,

5 among others, "Reinforcement is on the way of the 19th Partisan Brigades"

6 and then it goes on, "Part of our forces is controlling the zone towards

7 Jajce and Torlakovac" most probably "while the other part is controlling

8 the zone towards Bugojno, the brigade's biggest problem being the village

9 Prusac where a large number of green berets are concentrated." So my

10 question is were green berets in the village of Prusac or I will start

11 with my question: Who lived in the village of Prusac, people of which

12 ethnicity?

13 A. The majority population in Prusac was Bosniak.

14 Q. And to your knowledge, were there a large number of green berets?

15 A. There were no green berets there at all.

16 MS. RICHTEROVA: I would like to show the witness Exhibit 1722.

17 Q. It says press corps it's dated 29 May, 1992, and the last two

18 sentences says or three sentences, "The situation in Donji Vakuf is rather

19 serious. Gangs of HOS members and green berets are terrorising and

20 looting in the town, and the number of snipers lying in wait in houses

21 increases in night fall." As I said it is a press release or press corps

22 dated 29 May, 1992, the situation described is in this document, is it

23 accurate reflection of the situation?

24 A. I have said that the Bosniak population, with the exception of the

25 sick and the elderly who had remained in Donji Vakuf, left Donji Vakuf and

Page 14990

1 went to Bugojno and a small part to Travnik, on the 8th, the 9th, the 10th

2 and the 11th. Therefore I'm unable to comment on this. This is simply

3 impossible.

4 MS. RICHTEROVA: I would like to show the witness Exhibit P950.

5 Q. It is document, military document, 1st Krajina Corps command, 3rd

6 June, 1992, and it says, "The 30th infantry division continues to mop up

7 the Vrbas River valley in the villages of Vinac and Torlakovac." Who

8 lived in the villages of Vinac and Torlakovac, to your knowledge?

9 A. I don't know about Vinac. I do not wish to comment because it

10 belongs to the Jajce municipality. As for the village of Torlakovac, all

11 residents were Muslim.

12 Q. Have you heard the term of "mop up"?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. What does it mean, or how do you understand the term?

15 A. I know what "mop up" meant during this period. I had opportunity

16 to hear about it. It was just a Serb formation that went around Muslim

17 villages, opened fire from rifles and automatic weapons. Its members

18 entered villages to check who remained behind. I know, for instance, that

19 the village of Doganovci located in the immediate vicinity of Torlakovac,

20 that this is what happened. I know about this particular village because

21 I was born there. All those who remained in the village were either

22 murdered or arrested. Many houses were set on fire.

23 Q. And do you know whether, in either of these villages, there was

24 any armed resistance?

25 A. There was no armed resistance in the village of Torlakovac. I'm

Page 14991

1 sure about that.

2 MS. RICHTEROVA: I would like to show the witness Exhibit 1729.

3 Q. This is another military document, combat report, dated 21st June,

4 1992, command of the 19th Partisan Brigade, and it says, "Except for

5 sporadic provoking shots fired at 8.30 hours at Bribraca from the

6 direction of the school in Prusac, there were no other serious enemy

7 activities." It goes on like, "Grouping of men was noticed during the day

8 in Prusac." It goes on, "It was decided to reconnoitre and explore the

9 area of Kisinov Potok with a view to taking more concrete measures and

10 destroying the above-mentioned group, as well as intimidating and

11 dispersing the men in Prusac." And the document continues talking about

12 Prusac, in June 1992 what was the situation in Prusac? Was there

13 resistance, armed resistance?

14 A. There were armed civilians in Prusac. They had between 10 and 15

15 hunting rifles. I think they had several automatic rifles as well. I

16 know that they had very little ammunition for these weapons. During that

17 period, they still didn't have a front line around the village.

18 MS. RICHTEROVA: Can I show the witness Exhibit 1754?

19 JUDGE AGIUS: I hope we don't have to stay the rest of the sitting

20 listening to the security radio messages.


22 Q. This is a report on the work of the Donji Vakuf public security

23 station between the 1st April, 1992, and 25th December, 1992, and it

24 describes the situation from February 1992, high ranking Serbian personnel

25 have directed the efforts towards the preparation for the separation and

Page 14992

1 setting up a Serbian public security, and as a result, a Serbian public

2 security station was established in mid-April.

3 Do you remember when the SGB -- SJB was separated and did Serb

4 policemen wear different uniforms than the Muslim or non-Serb policemen?

5 A. Believe me, I no longer remember the date, though I was aware of

6 it at the time. I remember the events taking place at the time. The Serb

7 police became separate, and went -- and when they moved to the

8 administration building of the Komar company. I also know that Serb

9 police officers signed up for some different uniforms, slightly different

10 uniforms, than the regular ones. And I also know that highly capable

11 young men of Serb ethnicity from Donji Vakuf were elected and became

12 members of the police, of the reserve police force.

13 Q. When we are talking about these new uniforms, Serb police, I would

14 ask you at any point did to Donji Vakuf arrive some military unit from

15 Banja Luka?

16 A. I remember a special unit, at least this is how Serbs who still

17 communicated with me at the time referred to it. Me and my colleague from

18 the municipal staff were taken to the Daljan barracks on several occasions

19 by this special unit. They wore red berets.

20 Q. And thank you for that information and I will go back to this

21 document. It says in -- it is in the second paragraph, "There was a need

22 at the time to set up a collection centre for Croatian and Muslim men and

23 we dealt with everything concerning their detentions and investigation

24 together with the military security."

25 Do you know any collection centres which were set up in Donji

Page 14993

1 Vakuf?

2 A. I do.

3 Q. Can you name some for us?

4 A. I know, for instance, that there was a collection centre in a TO

5 warehouse. I know that some of my neighbours were detained in the

6 Vrbaspromet company warehouse. I also know that my relatives from Oborci

7 were detained in the Slav restaurant in Oborci. Then I know that some

8 people were taken to Semisnica motel located outside the city.

9 Q. I have the last document. It's Exhibit 1757. It is a document

10 issued by Ministry of the Interior, Banja Luka security service centre,

11 public security centre, Srbobran, dated 4th of October, 1993, and it's

12 chronological factual report on the setting up of a Serbian SJB and police

13 participation in the war.

14 I would refer you to the second page, which starts, "We will just

15 mention some of the more significant operations in which the police

16 participated. We have the first one, on 21st May, 1992, the operation to

17 liberate Korenici village. Korenici village, who lived in this village?

18 People of which ethnicity?

19 A. People of Muslim ethnicity, Bosniaks.

20 Q. And were they needed to be liberated?

21 A. I don't know what you mean, by whom? From whom?

22 Q. I am asking you, because it says the operation to liberate

23 Korenici village. So what do you think they were -- what this document is

24 referring to?

25 A. At that time, when this was discussed, reference was to the

Page 14994

1 cleansing of the village, and the deportation of its residents, which was

2 followed by plunder and arson. This is what was meant by a liberated

3 Muslim village.

4 Q. It also says a little bit further, "There was no great resistance

5 by the Muslim extremists but they succeeded in escaping to the

6 territory." Were you aware of any Muslim extremists, either in this

7 village or on the territory of the Donji Vakuf?

8 A. I know for sure that in Korenici there remained several old and

9 sick people who couldn't or wouldn't join other residents. However, after

10 this action, some of them managed to arrive in Bugojno. Others, however,

11 have not been heard of ever since. We don't know whether they are alive

12 or dead. But at any rate, after this action, there were no Muslims left

13 in Korenici.

14 Q. Then they are referring to the operation in Torlakovac on the 3rd

15 of June and we already saw military documents talking about the mopping up

16 operations in this village. Then Doganovci, if I'm not mistaken it is a

17 village in the vicinity of Torlakovac, I think you mentioned. I didn't

18 get it in the transcript. This village of Doganovci, who lived there?

19 A. Muslims only.

20 Q. And was there any resistance?

21 A. I know that there was none.

22 Q. Then we have operation on 11 July, for you it is on the page 3 in

23 B/C/S, and operation was carried out, together with VRS over a large area

24 of the Oborci and Seher villages, significant territory was captured and

25 with this act enemy disappeared from Donji Vakuf-Turbe area. Who lived

Page 14995

1 in Oborci and Seher villages?

2 A. The majority populations in Oborci and Seher was Muslims but there

3 were some Serbs as well, a small number of them.

4 Q. Is it correct what is stated in this document, that enemy

5 disappeared so -- were there any remaining Muslims living in Oborci and

6 Seher after this operation?

7 A. Before this operation, if you will allow me, in these two

8 villages, which are virtually connected, both Serbs and a number of

9 Muslims lived. The Muslims that had not yet fled. Military vehicles

10 would normally and without problems pass through these villages carrying

11 soldiers and officers in the direction of Jariciste where they were being

12 trained. There were no problems whatsoever for Serbs or the military

13 there because they were already present in these villages. During this

14 period of time, in the village of Oborci, or to be more precise, between

15 Oborci and this other village, my parents were staying, and according to

16 what they said, all Muslims remained in their houses during the day, and

17 during the night they would go to the woods because nights were very

18 dangerous. My father and my mother, together with other Muslims, finally

19 left this village sometime before this action took place, and went to

20 Travnik.

21 Q. We have another entry, 17 August, 1992, operation to liberate

22 Prusac village, which says that it was the largest Ustasha stronghold.

23 When we were talking about Prusac in June, you said there wasn't still a

24 combat zone. In August, did the situation change?

25 A. Very little.

Page 14996

1 Q. And were there strong armed resistance, was there a strong armed

2 resistance in Prusac village?

3 A. People were ready to fight. However, they didn't have enough

4 weapons or ammunition.

5 Q. We know from your statement that you left Donji Vakuf in May. You

6 left for Bugojno and joined the army, and you were also able to observe

7 some of these military operations. What I'm interested, and it is one of

8 my last questions, is were there any mosques in Prusac, in the Prusac

9 village?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And in 1992, which conditions they -- in which condition they

12 were -- we could find these mosques in the village of Prusac?

13 A. In this period, which means the August and September of 1992,

14 these mosques were riddled with bullets of different calibres.

15 Q. And were you able to see whether, if the mosques had minaret,

16 whether it was destroyed or whether they were still standing?

17 A. I think a part of them were destroyed. However, the minaret was

18 still standing on the central mosque in Prusac, and the condition of the

19 other mosques was similar but I must say I don't remember that the mosque

20 in Rijeka, in the new settlement as we called it, had a minaret at all.

21 Q. Do you know how many mosques or how many Muslim religious

22 properties were in Prusac?

23 A. As far as I know, there were four mosques.

24 Q. And we'll go back to Prusac village, we already heard that it was

25 a Muslim village. This resistance in Prusac, for how long did it last and

Page 14997

1 what was the result of all the actions against the village of Prusac?

2 A. I don't understand your question. You mean only this period, when

3 the Serb units attacked?

4 Q. What I'm referring, I want to start on 17 and whether the actions

5 went beyond the 17 of August.

6 A. No. After this action, after this operation, there was only

7 fierce artillery fire, shelling of houses, and of the army positions.

8 Q. And after the 17th, were there other military actions against

9 Prusac?

10 A. Not of this kind. Not that I remember.

11 Q. And did the Muslim population of the village of Prusac stayed in

12 the village throughout the war or did they move?

13 A. A part of them remained in Prusac.

14 Q. And the rest?

15 A. Yes. Well, I said a part of the population stayed.

16 Q. And what happened to the rest of the population? That was my

17 question.

18 A. Children, the elderly, a part of the women, left for Bugojno, and

19 many found shelter in Croatia.

20 MS. RICHTEROVA: Thank you, sir. This concludes my

21 examination-in-chief, and I'm sorry it took longer than I anticipated.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you, Madam Richterova. Mr. Ackerman? I wish

23 to make it clear that we need to stop at 6.30.

24 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour I think it's unlikely that I will

25 conclude by 6.30.

Page 14998

1 JUDGE AGIUS: No, I said what I said precisely because I do not

2 expect you will finish by 6.30 so I hope the witness has been informed

3 that he may have to stay the weekend here.

4 MR. ACKERMAN: At some point I would like at least a ten minute

5 break, between now and 6.30.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: It depends whether you would like it now, before you

7 start your cross, or whether you would like it at some later point in

8 time.

9 MR. ACKERMAN: If we did it now that would leave us with about 45

10 minutes -- 40 minutes left to go, and I think that would be appropriate

11 and it would also be a relief to me.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: So we will stop for 10 minutes. We will have a

13 break of 10 minutes. At least 15 minutes you said?

14 MR. ACKERMAN: 10 is fine with me. Whatever is good for you.

15 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. We have a break of 15 minutes.

16 --- Recess taken at 5.37 p.m.

17 --- On resuming at 5.55 p.m.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Ackerman.

19 MR. ACKERMAN: Thank you, Your Honour.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Ackerman, by the way, sir, is the lead counsel

21 for Mr. Brdjanin.

22 Cross-examined by Mr. Ackerman:

23 Q. All right, sir, we will get started and get as far as we can

24 before 6.30. I want you to have, to look at, the statements you gave to

25 the Office of the Prosecutor in September of 2001.

Page 14999

1 If you go to the first page of your statement, I think it's the

2 third paragraph, beginning with the language, "All ethnic groups in Donji

3 Vakuf," you'll find a sentence in there that reads as follows: "Very

4 often in this period, the SDS representatives from Donji Vakuf - I can't

5 specifically say who - assembled volunteers who went to Banja Luka for

6 military training." Do I take it from that that you have no idea who SDS

7 representatives involved in this claim you make were?

8 A. I don't know who rallied these people and who specifically was in

9 charge of the sending of volunteers for training to Banja Luka but I know

10 the people who went for their training.

11 Q. And is that the source of your information, that you know people

12 who went for that training?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. What kind of a military training facility was in Banja Luka that

15 you're aware of?

16 A. I know an officer who went for a training course for logistical

17 support. I also know a member of the army who went for the so-called

18 special training, training for special units.

19 Q. What does that mean?

20 A. That means that they could not have gone to Banja Luka based on

21 their assignment in the reserve forces. The two of them were assigned to

22 serve in the Territorial Defence units in the municipality of Donji Vakuf

23 and I did not send them to their training. Somebody else did.

24 Q. But you said one of them went to training for special units. What

25 would that be? What kind of training is that?

Page 15000

1 A. By that term, "Special units," I understand the reconnaissance and

2 sabotage units, the kind that we also had in our force.

3 Q. And to your knowledge, that kind of training was offered in Banja

4 Luka?

5 A. Why not?

6 Q. Had you ever sent anybody from your TO to Banja Luka for sabotage

7 special unit training?

8 A. No, I did not, because organisationally speaking, I wasn't linked

9 with Banja Luka. I was linked with Zenica. Donji Vakuf was in the Zenica

10 district.

11 Q. So is it fair to say that you really aren't familiar with what

12 kind of training might have been available in Banja Luka?

13 A. I only knew that all available training could have been completed

14 in Zenica because the district staff of Zenica and the district staff of

15 Banja Luka provided similar kinds of training.

16 Q. So the answer is that you don't know what kind of training might

17 have been available in Banja Luka? Is that your answer?

18 A. I know that any course of training that was available in Banja

19 Luka was available in Zenica too.

20 Q. So far you've indicated that you know of two people who went to

21 Banja Luka for training, one for logistics and one for special unit

22 training. Is that all you know about?

23 A. There were other men whose names I don't know, they were younger

24 men.

25 Q. What basis do you have for concluding that SDS representatives had

Page 15001

1 anything to do with this?

2 A. Because I talked to a man who went to Banja Luka for their

3 training.

4 Q. So you learned that from one person who went to Banja Luka? Is

5 that what you're telling us?

6 A. That was no secret. Many people knew about that fact and about

7 that activity. I was not the only one.

8 Q. And isn't it the case, as you have suggested, that none of this

9 involved combat training but either special unit, logistics, things of

10 that nature?

11 A. That is the kind of training we provided in Donji Vakuf as well,

12 on the level of the municipal TO staff, as well as in the district staff

13 of Zenica.

14 Q. So is the answer to my question yes?

15 A. Would you be so kind as to repeat the question?

16 Q. Yes. Isn't it the case, as you have suggested, that none of this

17 involved combat training but either special unit, logistics, things of

18 that nature?

19 A. I don't know.

20 Q. You know that, don't you, that there was no place in Banja Luka

21 where one could receive combat training? Don't you know that?

22 A. I know that on the drill grounds in Manjaca, near Banja Luka,

23 combat training was also possible.

24 Q. Yes, that's true, but you didn't say they went to Manjaca. You

25 said they went to Banja Luka, didn't you?

Page 15002

1 A. When I said they went to Banja Luka, I implied the environs of

2 Banja Luka as well. Any municipality in the vicinity of Banja Luka as

3 well. However, they said they were going to Banja Luka and that included

4 Manjaca.

5 Q. So it's now your position that Banja Luka, the way you said it in

6 your statement, could have included Banja Luka municipality and any

7 municipality bordering Banja Luka? Is that what you're telling us now?

8 A. Yes. I don't know where exactly they went. All I know is that

9 they went to Banja Luka, because that's the way they put it, but where

10 specifically they received their training in that barracks or outside

11 Banja Luka or at Manjaca, or in a settlement near Banja Luka, they didn't

12 explain.

13 Q. If you go down about a paragraph and a half, there is a paragraph

14 that begins and continues with this language: "At the beginning of 1992,

15 citizens in Donji Vakuf were hearing detonations coming from the direction

16 of Kupres and bursts of gunfire in town during the night." Do you know

17 what was happening in Kupres in early 1992?

18 A. We heard that there were -- there was fighting in Kupres.

19 Q. Could you look, please, at some documents? I'd like you to look

20 first at P1713. The document you have before you, sir, comes from the

21 30th Partisan Division command. It is signed at the end by Lieutenant

22 Colonel Stevan Kokovic, and I just need to go through it with you.

23 It says, "On 13 April, 1992, a meeting was held with

24 representatives of the municipal authorities of Donji Vakuf and Bugojno,

25 with the aim of coordinating views and tasks in order to maintain the

Page 15003

1 peace in this region. Donji Vakuf municipality was represented by the

2 President of the municipal assembly, Bugojno municipality was represented

3 by the President and vice-president of the municipal assembly, and the

4 commander of the Territorial Defence staff."

5 My first question is: Did you attend this meting?

6 A. I don't think so. But I heard about this meeting.

7 Q. Now, it indicates that the meeting was chaired by Colonel Galic,

8 and then indicates what he said, opening the meeting. And if you go down

9 just a little ways through this, he is speaking of the tasks of the JNA

10 and says this: "Their task is to ensure peace, prevent interethnic

11 clashes, put all military formations under our command and prevent the

12 activities of all paramilitary formations." Do you see that? Find where

13 I'm reading from? It's actually the second paragraph of his remarks.

14 A. Yes. I found it.

15 Q. Now, he says that it's one of his tasks to put all military

16 formations under the command of the JNA and prevent the activities of all

17 paramilitary formations. Now, you spoke earlier today about the creation

18 of a brigade that was put under the command of the JNA, that was created

19 from former paramilitary formations, didn't you?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. He goes on to say that "The situation at Kupres was intolerable,

22 there were several armies and paramilitary formations there and they all

23 sowed fear and terror." If we go on down a couple of paragraphs, he then

24 says, "I appeal to you," talking primarily to the Presidents of these two

25 municipalities, Donji Vakuf and Bugojno, "I appeal to you to be sincere

Page 15004

1 and concise during the discussion. And not like it was at Kupres. Then

2 we reached a full agreement and talked until 2400 hours on 2 April, 1992,

3 when HOS, Croatian defence forces, had already been dispatched and

4 attacked innocent people. The members of the HOS were originally from all

5 areas except this and when the attack had begun, we called for a

6 cease-fire several times but to no avail." Now, are you familiar with the

7 attack in the Kupres area by the Croatian Defence forces?

8 A. No.

9 Q. Never heard about that?

10 A. I only heard about the fighting, but as far as HOS is concerned,

11 the Croatian Defence forces, attacking Serb forces, I don't know.

12 Q. Now, in 14 -- on 13 April, 1992, who was the President of the

13 Donji Vakuf municipal assembly?

14 A. It was Mr. Kemal Terzic in 1992.

15 Q. And if you look on the next page, Kemal Terzic made some

16 observations, Kemal Terzic was Bosniak, correct?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Kemal Terzic said, "We have not had a single interethnic clash in

19 Donji Vakuf. We have not had a single case of looting." A little further

20 down, he says, "85 per cent of Serbian families have moved out, to Novi

21 Sad, Banja Luka, Belgrade, 95 per cent of Muslim families are here in

22 town." Correct?

23 A. No, it's not.

24 Q. So the Bosniak Kemal Terzic was incorrect when he said those

25 things on that day? Is that your position?

Page 15005

1 A. I don't think he could have said this, because it's absolutely

2 impossible that he should have stated this on that day.

3 Q. Let's go to -- it's page 3 in the English version, it's Colonel

4 Galic speaking after the vice-president of Bugojno, Misic, speaks. And

5 Galic makes a request of Sojic, you know who Sojic is? Is he the

6 municipal -- yeah, it's probably Sajic, the municipal president of

7 Bugojno?

8 A. Soljic, you mean?

9 Q. Yes, is he the municipal president from Bugojno?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. According to this, Galic asks him, "Are there any paramilitary

12 formations in the Bugojno area" and he replies as follows: "Everyone is

13 armed. That is a fact and everyone knows that. I guarantee there is no

14 one from outside." Galic then asks, "What would happen if we went to

15 Kupres via Bugojno?" His reply was, "We cannot give you any guarantees on

16 that."

17 Do you know why he couldn't guarantee safe passage for the

18 military to go through Bugojno on the way to Kupres?

19 A. I don't know.

20 Q. The next person who speaks is Colonel Selak, who you know to be

21 the head of the logistics base in Banja Luka and a Bosniak serving in the

22 JNA, correct?

23 A. I heard that much.

24 Q. Did you ever meet Colonel Selak?

25 A. I wasn't introduced to him but I was once at the warehouse in

Page 15006

1 Daljan, near him, standing near him literally.

2 Q. Selak says, "Cooperation has been exceptionally good so far.

3 There are extremists on all sides but they can be very dangerous if they

4 come from the outside and provoke incidents." Correct?

5 A. No, it's not.

6 Q. It's not correct what he said or it's not correct that I read it

7 correctly? It's what the document says, isn't it?

8 A. It's not correct for this reason: It's not true that cooperation

9 had been exceptionally good that far. Cooperation wasn't good because all

10 the agreements that had been reached were breached. Second, he says that

11 there are extremists on all sides and they are especially dangerous if

12 they are coming from outside and provoking incidents. Why did officers

13 from Banja Luka come then? And I would like to know who was it who came

14 from outside and who were the extremists on the Muslim side in Donji

15 Vakuf. I don't know any such people.

16 Q. This is a meeting that you did not attend, correct?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And yet you presume to sit here in front of these Judges and tell

19 them that you know for sure that Osman Selak said nothing of the kind. Is

20 that your position? Even though you weren't there?

21 A. No, that's not what I'm saying. What I mean is that it's possible

22 he said that, but I'm saying that his claims are not true.

23 Q. All right. Then finally, Colonel Galic wants to try to adopt some

24 conclusions as a result of this meeting that has gone on, and I'd like to

25 refer to a few of them. Number 3, is efforts should be made to set up

Page 15007

1 mixed police checkpoints and that checkpoints be manned by personnel of

2 all ethnic backgrounds. Now that came to pass, did it not? That's

3 exactly what happened, right?

4 A. Mixed police checkpoints never existed in Donji Vakuf, not in

5 1992.

6 Q. Number 5 says, ensure unobstructed travel along the Banja

7 Luka-Jajce-Donji Vakuf-Bugojno-Kupres road and the Bugojno-Travnik road.

8 In this regard the tunnel at Kupreska Vrata should be cleared of mines.

9 Where is that tunnel at Kupreska Vrata in proximity to Kupres itself? How

10 close is it to Kupres?

11 JUDGE AGIUS: If it can be indicated on the map where he has

12 already indicated the two -- the bridge and the other, I think it would --

13 MR. ACKERMAN: It's not on the map, Your Honour, Kupres is off

14 that map.

15 JUDGE AGIUS: It's off that map?

16 MR. ACKERMAN: Yeah.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: I see.

18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It's two kilometres away from Kupres

19 in the direction of Bugojno.


21 Q. Do you know anything about the tunnel being mined?

22 A. No.

23 Q. Then number 9, Colonel Galic says that they should prevent further

24 departures from the municipalities and take measures to encourage those

25 who have moved away to return. Do you know if that was ever done?

Page 15008

1 A. No.

2 Q. All right. I'd now like to you look at another document, DB120,

3 please. DB120, sir is a document from the 5th Corps command, 11 April,

4 1992. First thing I want you to look at is the last page. And on the

5 last page I think you will see that it is signed by Colonel Mesud Hasotic.

6 Do you see that?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And Colonel Mesud Hasotic was a Bosniak serving in the JNA, wasn't

9 he?

10 A. I don't know.

11 Q. Isn't Mesud a Muslim name?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. He says, in this report, of 11 April, 1992, "In several crisis

14 areas in BH, there is an escalation of open conflicts of ever-increasing

15 intensity with tragic consequences in terms of human life and property.

16 The situation is most critical in Kupres, Bijeljina, Bosanski Brod,

17 Sarajevo and Foca. According to some of the evidence received up to 9

18 April, several hundred people have been killed there, mostly women and

19 children. The most serious suffering is being experienced by the people

20 of Kupres where heavy fighting is taking place between the armed

21 formations of Croatia and the Serbian people from these parts. The

22 objective of the Croatian state's diabolical plans is to take Kupres

23 regardless of casualties and to join up the BH, HDZ, that's the Croatian

24 Democratic Union paramilitaries, along the Bugojno, Doboj, Bosanski Brod

25 axis. This would effectively sever the Serbian Krajinas from the

Page 15009

1 remainder of Yugoslavia. In all the larger towns along the

2 above-mentioned axis, HOS, Croatian defence forces, and ZNG, National

3 Guard Corps units have taken and are firmly holding on to key positions.

4 They are controlling whatever traffic there is, capturing, harassing and

5 abusing primarily Serbs and JNA members. An unprecedented crime was

6 committed in Kupres, 28 people were slaughtered."

7 Now, you know, don't you, that that was true, that that was the

8 mission of the Croatian forces, exactly as described in this report by

9 Colonel Hasotic?

10 A. I don't know about this.

11 Q. You were -- spent part of this time very nearby in Kupres -- I

12 mean in Donji Vakuf, and another part of this time in 1992 as a member of

13 the military in Bugojno and you don't know what was going on in Kupres,

14 which was a few kilometres away from you? You want to tell the Court you

15 don't know what know what was going on over there?

16 A. I don't know what was going on during this fighting, in this

17 period, around the 11th of April, or generally in April, because I was in

18 Donji Vakuf and I was hiding, going from house to house, because I didn't

19 dare to sleep in my own house for fear of being taken away.

20 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour I think we need to stop at that point

21 because the next document is fairly detailed.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. Thank you, Mr. Ackerman, and thank you,

23 Mr. Alkic. I'm afraid, as you see, we haven't managed to finish today.

24 It's nobody's fault. It's just happens that you are a key witness in this

25 municipality and a lot of information obviously is needed from you, from

Page 15010

1 both the Prosecution and the Defence, and therefore I ask you to be

2 patient. We'll meet Monday in the afternoon. All sittings next week are

3 in the afternoon, even though I am trying to find out whether we could

4 find a courtroom any of those five days in the morning but I don't promise

5 as yet, I don't think it's going to be easy but I'm trying. It will be in

6 Trial Chamber III, courtroom III, sorry, courtroom III. In the meantime,

7 the usher can escort the witness out. Have a nice weekend, sir, and we'll

8 meet on Monday.

9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

10 [The witness withdrew]

11 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Madam Richterova? We need to finish --

12 MS. RICHTEROVA: It is very short, I only want to confirm that on

13 Monday, we will hear the witness 7.136, and if we are talking about

14 exhibits, I would like to ask you to bring the Prnjavor binder.


16 MS. RICHTEROVA: And on Wednesday, we are calling Witness 7.265,

17 and your legal officer got all the statements, transcripts, which are

18 necessary.

19 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. I thank you. On Wednesday, I have two Status

20 Conferences as well in the morning. So thank you. Have a nice weekend,

21 we'll meet on -- meet Monday at 2.15.

22 MR. ACKERMAN: I'm hoping for a better week next week, Your

23 Honour.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: I hope so.

25 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at

Page 15011

1 6.28 p.m., to be reconvened on Monday,

2 the 3rd day of March, 2003, at 2.15 p.m.