Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 19310

1 Friday, 11 July 2003

2 [Open session]

3 --- Upon commencing at 9.04 a.m.

4 [The accused entered court]

5 JUDGE AGIUS: We call the case, please, Madam Registrar.

6 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour. Good morning, Your Honours.

7 This is the Case Number IT-99-36-T, the Prosecutor versus Radislav

8 Brdjanin.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Brdjanin, good morning to you. Can you follow

10 in a language that you can understand?

11 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honours. Yes, I

12 can do that.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: Appearances for the Prosecution.

14 MR. NICHOLLS: Good morning, Your Honours. Julian Nicholls with

15 Denise Gustin.

16 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you.

17 For the Defence.

18 MR. ACKERMAN: Good morning, Your Honour. John Ackerman with

19 Aleksandar Vujic.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. Thank you. Any preliminaries?

21 Nothing?

22 Yes, Mr. Nicholls.

23 MR. NICHOLLS: Not really. Three very small points. First of

24 all, I wonder if we know when my deadline to stop is so that I can plan --

25 JUDGE AGIUS: Preferably at 11.30. Preferably, because they want

Page 19311

1 me -- let's go into private session for a while because I don't think this

2 is for public consumption.

3 [Private session]

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Page 19312

1 (Redacted)

2 [Open session]

3 JUDGE AGIUS: With regard to the law of the Federal Republic and

4 the law of Republika Srpska on -- which could reflect on command

5 responsibility --

6 MR. NICHOLLS: I don't plan to go into that, Your Honour.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. Because I don't think we ought to have

8 lectures from anybody on that, to be frank with you.

9 MR. NICHOLLS: The second question for Your Honours is: Should I

10 reserve time for questions from Your Honours because you may wish to ask

11 questions before we close our --

12 JUDGE AGIUS: I personally have already expressed myself. I allow

13 expert witnesses to come over because I know that the system allows it. I

14 come from a jurisdiction where we don't allow expert witnesses, and my

15 idea of them is not that high. I'm telling you straight and plain. I

16 know -- I can see the utility of the system, but frankly, I prefer to

17 appoint my own expert.

18 MR. NICHOLLS: Another point, Your Honour. I think it has been

19 cleared up, but I would ask that I be allowed to communicate with

20 Mr. Brown before his cross, obviously not talking about anything to do

21 with his testimony, the report, or his cross-examination.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: Yeah. It would be exactly the same as we did with

23 the previous witness. You are professional people and you are trusted as

24 such.

25 MR. NICHOLLS: The very last point, Your Honour, which is not a

Page 19313

1 big point, just for the record, the document in footnote 451 about which

2 there was some confusion yesterday, that is, in fact, part of Exhibit

3 P717. We compared the B/C/S originals yesterday in both, so --

4 JUDGE AGIUS: My secretary told me so this morning, because I

5 asked her to check, too. And you are correct.

6 MR. NICHOLLS: So we did assign that as 2423 yesterday, but it can

7 either be left --

8 JUDGE AGIUS: Leave it as it is now because you would confuse

9 Mr. Ackerman --

10 THE INTERPRETER: Your Honours, excuse me, but could this exchange

11 be slowed down because it is difficult for interpreters to follow.

12 [Trial Chamber confers]

13 JUDGE AGIUS: So please allow no time for questions from the

14 Bench. If any at all, we'll put those after the cross-examination.

15 Ms. Gustin, witnesses are being asked by my colleagues to have

16 confirmation for the witnesses next week. Ms. Gustin, 7.57 first for

17 cross-examination; 7.89 to follow; 7.279; and then last but not least,

18 7.22 cross-examination only.

19 MR. NICHOLLS: Your Honour, can I confirm that after the break,

20 and I'll check --

21 JUDGE AGIUS: In the meantime, please work out on a complete list

22 of witnesses until the 1st of August because my staff has required it.

23 And I am not in a position to give it to them because I don't know who is

24 coming and when. So please if you can help me there.

25 Mr. Ackerman.

Page 19314

1 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, the last witness scheduled for next

2 week is a bit ify ---

3 JUDGE AGIUS: Is a bit --

4 MR. ACKERMAN: Because it depends on -- as you recall that

5 involves the book that was sent to CLSS for translation. We asked them to

6 have it back to us by the 15th of July, and I don't know if they are going

7 to be able to make that deadline. If they don't, it makes no sense to

8 bring that person here.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: Yeah. Okay. 17th will be plenary; 18th we are

10 sitting definitely.

11 Yeah. But don't give me that face, Madam Chuqing, we are sitting

12 on the 18th. Let's bring the witness in and get going.

13 MR. NICHOLLS: We can begin, Your Honour. Unfortunately there's

14 a --

15 JUDGE AGIUS: There's another hitch.

16 MR. NICHOLLS: A technical problem with the Sanction.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: It looked like it from the very word go. Is the

18 cabinet door outside locked where the equipment is? Can someone check,

19 please. This room in the corridor here where all the equipment is.

20 [The witness entered court]

21 JUDGE AGIUS: Good morning to you, Mr. Brown. Welcome back.

22 You're going to continue giving evidence on the basis of the same solemn

23 declaration that you made yesterday. So please take a seat, and

24 Mr. Nicholls will proceed. Is the technical fault going to stop? We can

25 proceed, Ms. Gustin? What's the problem, if I may know?

Page 19315












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Page 19316

1 MR. NICHOLLS: We can start, Your Honours, it's just we don't have

2 hard copies of every single document. I have a B/C/S copy of everything I

3 am going to use, so if necessary, we can put that on the ELMO. And

4 hopefully, this will catch up to us.


6 Examined by Mr. Nicholls:

7 JUDGE AGIUS: We try. Anyway, let's start cracking and then we'll

8 see.


10 Q. Good morning, Mr. Brown.

11 A. Good morning, Mr. Nicholls.

12 Q. For your information, I have been asked this morning when both of

13 us are reading, we read a little bit slower if we read from any

14 documents. And for your information, we're going to try to finish by

15 11.30 if possible. I just want to, if we can, tie up what we were talking

16 about yesterday which within the context of common features of military

17 operations was the series of weapons deadlines. And let me just try to

18 take us up to where we were yesterday. We talked first about the Subotic

19 mobilisation order of the 16th of April and the related 4th of May ARK

20 National Defence council instruction which referenced the Subotic order

21 which first set the deadline of 11th of May at 3.00 p.m., 1500 hours. Is

22 that right?

23 A. Yes, that's right.

24 Q. The next item we talked about was the 8th of May, 1992, ARK Crisis

25 Staff conclusion which re-emphasised the 11th of May deadline. Is that

Page 19317

1 correct?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. We then talked about the 11th of May ARK Crisis Staff conclusion

4 which extended the deadline to the 14th of May and raised the language in

5 a sense at this point now stating that severe sanctions shall be taken

6 against those who disobey that proclamation?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. On the 14th of May, the ARK Crisis Staff, and you state in your

9 report, then switched to proactive measures for disarmament. Can you

10 briefly explain what you meant by that. We are now on page 65, paragraph

11 2.15.

12 A. The quote on page 65 and 66 from the ARK Crisis Staff decision of

13 the 14th of May stated that: "The Security Services Centre of the

14 Autonomous Region of Krajina shall consistently carry out the decision of

15 the Crisis Staff of the Autonomous Region of Krajina on disarming of

16 paramilitary units and individuals who are illegally in possession of

17 weapons and ammunition." In essence, requesting that the Security

18 Services Centre take action in regard to this.

19 Q. And then yesterday, we looked at the 14th of May Security Services

20 Centre disarmament order, that's P195, which resulted from that ARK 14th

21 of May meeting.

22 A. Is it possible for me just to refresh myself with that document?

23 Q. Yes. That is the document cited in footnote 269, I believe. CSB

24 Banja Luka instruction of 14th of May.

25 A. Yes. This document tasks the various chiefs of public security

Page 19318

1 stations to make concrete plans for the seizure of illegally owned weapons

2 and ammunition and explosives. It is dated the 14th of May, which is the

3 same day as the ARK Crisis Staff decision, although I just draw your

4 attention to the fact that in the first paragraph, it actually references

5 earlier decisions rather than that 14th of May decision. But in essence,

6 it is requesting that the various MUP or police chiefs to make concrete

7 plans for the illegal or the seizure of illegally owned weapons and

8 ammunitions, which would seem to be in line with that 14th of May ARK

9 decision.

10 Q. Thank you for that clarification. One moment, please.

11 All right. One of the documents I planned to show you - we can't

12 put it up on the screen right now, so we'll just refer to it - is the

13 document you footnote in footnote 267.

14 MR. NICHOLLS: For your information, Your Honours, that has been

15 previously exhibited as P631. It's the 12th of May 5th corps command

16 combat report.

17 Q. You cite this, do you not, as an example of the deadlines being

18 referenced and disseminated in 5th corps military documents?

19 A. Yes. This particular daily combat report is dated the 12th of

20 May, so it's the day after the 11th of May and when the initial deadline

21 was meant to be or was listed for 1500 hours. And it makes reference:

22 "Upon the request of citizens and parties, the Serbian Republic Krajina

23 war staff has extended the deadline for the handover of weapons from 11

24 May to 14 May," indicating that the corps were aware of these deadlines in

25 some detail and were passing that information on or they viewed it as

Page 19319

1 important enough to put it in a daily combat report and were passing that

2 information up to their higher command headquarters.

3 Q. Thank you. And we're just about done with this area. We also

4 looked at yesterday the document cited in footnote 389. That was the

5 undated order by Mr. Anicic, commander of the Sanski Most Serbian

6 Territorial Defence. And I believe you selected that document as an

7 example of the way that these disarmament operations in practice were

8 carried out jointly with the involvement of the military and police

9 forces, as well as TO, VRS, and police forces.

10 A. Yes, I believe that would indicate this.

11 Q. And just for the record, that is the process which you talk about

12 in paragraph 2.18 of your report. Is that right?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. And again, would you characterise the process which we see in that

15 Anicic order as representative of the sort of general pattern of

16 disarmament, obviously with differences in the different municipalities?

17 A. Yes. I think there are a number of documentary references in

18 other municipalities that would appear to echo this type of activity

19 highlighted in the Sanski Most TO instruction.

20 Q. Thank you.

21 If we could go now to page 88 of your report, could you tell us

22 just very briefly what this section is about, retaliatory actions and

23 killings of non-Serbs. We won't go through all the documents you

24 reference here, but I'd like you to explain why you put this in as part of

25 the general pattern of municipality attacks that we see.

Page 19320

1 A. I primarily put it in because there were a number of references in

2 the military documents, in the Krajina Corps collection, military

3 documents themselves that talked about retaliatory action and killings.

4 They made reference in some cases to specific instances of killings. They

5 made a number of general references to the issue of retaliatory actions

6 and killings. And there were some references as well from the corps

7 passing down instructions that indicated that this type of activity was to

8 be prevented. So I put it in because the documents themselves made

9 reference to it.

10 Q. And in paragraph 2.80 of your report, which is on page 89, you've

11 listed representative examples of these types of killings where they

12 occurred in different municipalities, such as Bosanski Gradiska, Celinac,

13 the Keraterm camp, Manjaca, Sanski Most, and so on.

14 A. Yes. I tried as best I could to look at the individual case that

15 is I saw, and those were some of them that were flagged up in the various

16 reports of the corps. And I also made the references to some of the

17 general comments on killings and retaliatory action which I flagged up in

18 the sections -- this section and the subsequent sections.

19 Q. Just as an example, I'd like to show the document cited in

20 footnote 405. This has not been previously exhibited, and I'd like to

21 make it an exhibit. It will be P2424. I can put my copy on the ELMO if

22 necessary.

23 JUDGE AGIUS: Still the technical hitch hasn't been solved as yet?

24 MR. NICHOLLS: Apparently not, Your Honour. So I will have to

25 operate without the document.

Page 19321












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Page 19322

1 JUDGE AGIUS: 2424.

2 MR. NICHOLLS: Yes, Your Honour. Thank you.

3 Q. This is a 1st Krajina Corps regular combat report dated the 22nd

4 of August. Is that right?

5 A. Yes, it is, and it is going to the main staff of the VRS.

6 Q. Can you just briefly tell us why you selected this one as an

7 example. I think it's obvious, actually. You don't need to answer that.

8 Just go to the highlighted portion where this document deals with killings

9 which the corps was made aware of.

10 A. Yes. Paragraph 3, situation on the ground. In the second part of

11 that paragraph makes note: "A massacre against civilians, Muslim men, was

12 committed on the 21st of August between 1830 and 1900 hours. It was

13 committed by a group of policemen escorting a convoy of refugees to

14 Travnik. The massacre took place at Koricanke Stijene in the canyon of

15 Ilomska river at Mount Vlasic. About 100 people were killed in various

16 ways and left in the canyon."

17 Q. Thank you. I'm done with that exhibit. Just for completeness,

18 footnote 406, the next footnote in your report, we won't put the document

19 on the screen.

20 MR. NICHOLLS: That is P2302, Your Honours.

21 Q. It has been exhibited. It's another report dealing with this

22 incident -- no, I'm sorry. Strike that.

23 That is another example of a different massacre which you selected

24 showing -- reporting up through the chain of command of the corps. This

25 one, however, dealing with an incident in Kotor Varos at the Vecici

Page 19323

1 village?

2 A. Yes. This was on the 4th of November in relation to the activity

3 in Vecici, which was an area that the Serb authorities had not got under

4 control at that time. And during this period, there were negotiations in

5 an attempt to resolve that area, and there were some disagreements between

6 how that should be resolved, whether weapons should be handed over or

7 whether they should be allowed to leave and just move from the territory.

8 It appears that whilst those negotiations were ongoing, the men from that

9 area of Vecici attempted to leave and break out, and this daily combat

10 report notes that they were or a significant number were captured. And it

11 states in this daily combat report which again was sent to the VRS main

12 staff headquarters: "In the area of Kotor Varos, there was a clash

13 between members of Muslim forces and our units. Because of the refusal to

14 negotiate on the moving out of the area of the Vecici area, about 40 Green

15 Beret members were killed and about 200 were captured. A brutal massacre

16 of the captured members of the Green Berets started because of the killing

17 of one soldier of the Kotor Varos light infantry brigade and the burning

18 of wounded soldiers on the Gola Planina in Jajce."

19 Subsequently daily combat reports in the following days couched

20 this incident or the deaths as combat casualties rather than in particular

21 reference to a massacre of captured prisoners.

22 Q. Thank you. I'd like to move on to a different section of your

23 report. This begins on page 97. The section of your report entitled:

24 The Rounding of Population, Transfer to Camps, and Detention Centres.

25 Now, is this again, this section of the report, a feature which you would

Page 19324

1 characterise as one of the common features of the military operations in

2 the Krajina in 1992 which you studied?

3 A. Yes, it was. Certainly in the municipalities where the

4 documentary evidence was reasonably substantial and in the military

5 reports as well, it would seem to be, as I've articulated, that after many

6 of the attacks, a significant number of people were taken and placed in

7 various detention centres, initially in those municipalities, and then

8 transferred to a larger Detention Centre.

9 Q. All right. I'd like to look at one of the documents you've

10 selected as representative in this section. That is footnote 449. It has

11 been previously exhibited as P657. We can't put it on the screen. This

12 is a 2nd of June 1st Krajina Corps command regular combat report to the

13 army main staff. Is that right?

14 A. Yes, it is. It's another standard daily combat report from the

15 corps to the main staff.

16 Q. Perhaps we could put your version on the ELMO, and you can take my

17 version because my version has handwriting on it.

18 A. I can probably read it the ELMO.

19 Q. All right. This essentially goes to the point of the rounding up

20 or gathering of the population. If you could just take us to the

21 important points in this document, which I think are mostly in paragraphs

22 2 and 3.

23 A. Yes. This simply highlights that the corps were aware that

24 significant numbers, in this case, 900, had been captured in the area of

25 fight around Kljuc. Makes mention that some 400 rifles had been seized

Page 19325

1 during the process. There are a couple of other issues which also deal

2 with the issues we were talking about yesterday in relation to the

3 movement out of the population and weapon deadlines. And paragraph 2, in

4 relation to Lisina village which was a village in Prnjavor municipality,

5 Muslim extremists -- because they had failed to hand in their weapons, the

6 Muslim population of the area of Lisina village had been expelled. Also

7 in paragraph 3 it notes that in the wider area of Sanski Most, Prijedor,

8 and Kljuc, they are under the control of our units and mopping up in the

9 area is underway.

10 Paragraph 8 of the document also makes reference to the disarming

11 issue again. Just again referring to disarming of Muslim extremists

12 paramilitary formations, and that that was continuing.

13 Q. Thank you. I'm done with that document.

14 Also, we don't need to go through the document, but in footnote

15 451, you cite the report for the Bosanski Novi public security station.

16 That is -- has been numbered 2423. That's another good example of what

17 occurred. That's why you cited that. Is that right?

18 A. Yes. That is a very detailed report making reference to this very

19 issue, that significant numbers were taken to detention centres. And in

20 fact, the three documents that comprise this consolidated report all deal

21 with this issue to some degree, highlighting a number of the detention

22 centres that were established and that both through police and military

23 action, that significant numbers were taken to those detention centres.

24 Q. Thank you. Similarly, we don't need to put it on the ELMO, but

25 footnote 452, you cited a quote from that document which is P680, Your

Page 19326

1 Honours, which just states clearly that on the 25th of May, the

2 "disarming" in Sanski Most was followed by military action against the

3 downtown neighbourhood of Mahala which resulted in the capture of 2.000

4 civilians, but no significant amount of weapons have been found because

5 they had been concealed earlier. And that is a Sanski Most report on the

6 activities of the Sanski Most SJB dated 15 of June, 1992. That's just

7 another example. Correct?

8 A. Yes. And the issue of the date here is also important. It says

9 the 25th, and the Sanski Most Territorial Defence document is the 26th.

10 The daily combat reports of the corps around that period also make

11 reference to operations going on in that municipality. But in relation to

12 the corps, yes, it makes mention of 2.000 civilians being captured.

13 Q. We don't need to go through this document because the Chamber has

14 seen it several times, but the document you note in footnote 460, that is

15 the document from the Sanski Most Crisis Staff meeting dated 4th of June,

16 1992, which deals with the categorisation of prisoners and their selection

17 for deportation to Manjaca camp. The persons listed as taking part in

18 that process are Mirko Vrucinic, who was the chief of police; Nedeljko

19 Racava [phoen]; and Colonel Anicic. We saw his report earlier.

20 Can you just comment on whether this categorisation process was

21 unique to Sanski Most or whether you found evidence of this elsewhere, and

22 also whether this type of selection as to who was to go to camps in other

23 municipalities also involved civilian, police, and military personnel?

24 Sorry, that was a long question.

25 A. I made reference to this in the Stakic testimony. I saw evidence

Page 19327












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Page 19328

1 of that in Prijedor from documentation. Again, in Prijedor Municipality,

2 documentation indicated an involvement of military officials and police

3 officials in the categorisation process or -- and selection process. The

4 Sanski Most document that you refer to also includes a reference to the

5 assistant commander for security at the 1st Krajina Corps who was to be

6 contacted also in relation to this categorisation or selection process.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Mr. Ackerman.

8 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, this document in footnote 460, for the

9 record, is P661.

10 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you. I wonder if we could have a call to the

11 technician, if anybody can make that and see if anybody can again come out

12 and try to help us get this running.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: That's what we have, too, P661.

14 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you, Your Honours.

15 Q. Moving ahead, I think this is an important paragraph. You've

16 already started talking about this, Mr. Brown. 2.106, on page 100, we

17 don't have time probably for you to give the longest answer you'd like to

18 that. But can you just tell us whether you stand by that statement or

19 have any changes to make to it and if you have anything to add.

20 A. No, I stand by the statement. I think the documentation indicates

21 a significant degree of cooperation and coordination between the military

22 and the police, including in camps that they themselves did not run.

23 Q. Thank you.

24 If we could go to page 105 of your report, you are talking in

25 paragraph 2.120 about some of the problems or bad conditions that

Page 19329

1 prisoners in Manjaca camp suffered. There has been a lot of testimony

2 about that, so we won't talk about the actual conditions. But can you

3 talk about the document you cite in 493, footnote 493, that is P394. That

4 is a 1st Krajina Corps command report on the visit by the International

5 Red Cross to Manjaca prisoner of war camp, 16th of July, 1992, signed by

6 Colonel Vukelic. Can you just explain why you included this section in

7 your report.

8 A. There was a reasonable amount of material in relation to Manjaca

9 camp in the 1st Krajina Corps documents. That's probably unsurprising

10 seeing as they were running the facility. But this document in particular

11 stood out, and in essence, was the 1st Krajina Corps's report on the ICRC

12 visit to the camp and their perspective of what they viewed from that

13 visit. It was sent to General Talic and was -- summarised not only the

14 visit, but also the views as articulated to the Krajina Corps, the views

15 of the ICRC in relation to the camp.

16 The document just for interest states at the beginning: "At the

17 urging of the Banja Luka-based International Red Cross from Geneva, and in

18 keeping with the agreement sign on the 13th of July, 1992, by Mr. D.

19 Kalinic from the government of the Serbian Republic of BH, a visit to the

20 prisoner of war camp in Manjaca was granted." This is the same

21 Mr. Kalinic who we discussed yesterday at the 16th assembly session.

22 The corps then discuss the ICRC visit. They arrived. But clearly

23 broke off talks with the military. And in it, in this document, it

24 articulates why the ICRC themselves stated that they broke talks off, and

25 they said amongst other things, they hadn't been allowed to meet with

Page 19330

1 prisoners, for prisoners, they made observations about the quantities of

2 food, loss of weight of the prisoners, the risk of an epidemic breaking

3 out. They demanded the release of some 19 prisoners on account of the

4 state of their health. And they used the words in the document "brought

5 out accusations that the treatment of prisoners and claimed to have seen

6 fresh traces of blood."

7 The document states that -- gives the impression that the ICRC

8 hadn't come with, if you like, a proper assignment and that they had

9 actually had some ulterior motive and states in the paragraph the general

10 impression is that the ICRC representatives came on an assignment. And

11 there's references at the end: "As we have discovered that their

12 intentions are not based on goodwill, we suggest that they continue to be

13 watched closely, that we permit them to visit more often but decline

14 hospitality when the opportunity arises." This document for me is

15 indicative that the ICRC view the camp as being -- the conditions being

16 poor within the camp, but that the Krajina Corps are not willing to accept

17 that in view that the ICRC as coming on in for some ulterior purpose and

18 that if necessary, they should decline further access if required.

19 Q. Thank you. Could we go to page 107 of your report now, paragraph

20 2.127. And in relation to this section, I'll ask you whether you found

21 documentary evidence in the 1st Krajina Corps collection which showed

22 whether the 1st Krajina Corps was aware that civilians, in other words,

23 persons who had not committed a crime or were not engaged in armed combat,

24 were held in Manjaca camp?

25 A. Yes, there is documentation to that effect.

Page 19331

1 Q. If we're working now, could we have footnote 509, please. That is

2 P1314, Your Honours, 1st Krajina Corps command letter, I suppose, 6th of

3 August, 1992, to the Prijedor SMB. Now, I think this is fairly

4 self-explanatory why you selected this --

5 JUDGE AGIUS: Frankly, I don't know -- I can't fathom why you're

6 asking a question on it. Because if you read those four lines, that's

7 what it says, and that's footnote 509. And we have seen this document

8 before.

9 MR. NICHOLLS: My only point, Your Honour, is that it shows again

10 this communication between the prisoners, not just the military, whether

11 they are talking to the Prijedor authorities saying that some action needs

12 to be taken.

13 Q. And just also, Mr. Brown, Manjaca camp would have been in

14 operation for a couple of months. Is that right?

15 A. Yes. I would draw attention also to of course the second-last

16 section which states that: "Having been attacked in the media, that this

17 was justification enough or sufficient reason enough to carry out the

18 selection." Having looked at this document, there is a difference in the

19 typeface of the address block. It says to Prijedor SMB. And then the

20 last line also says "please forward to Omarska".

21 Q. For the record, you're talking about the B/C/S original.

22 A. The B/C/S original, yes. But in the body of the text it makes

23 mention to Sanski Most. My assessment of this is that this document was

24 designed for a number of municipalities and quite possibly the assistant

25 commander of security drafted it up initially for Sanski Most and simply

Page 19332

1 took off the address block rather than having is to rewrite or retype the

2 document and sent this version to Prijedor. And I believe this version

3 was actually seized in Prijedor by the Office of the Prosecutor. So it

4 may well have been not just disseminated to Prijedor, but to other SMBs

5 from where prisoners in Manjaca came from.

6 Q. Thank you very much. I'd like to just look at another document.

7 This has not been exhibited. That is the document cited in footnote 511,

8 a 3rd of September 1st Krajina Corps command document.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: And that would be P2425.

10 MR. NICHOLLS: Yes, Your Honour. Thank you.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you.


13 Q. We're on the same topic here, Mr. Brown. I think if you could

14 comment on this, the relevant portions are on page 3 and 4, further

15 talking about the problem of having citizens for which there is no

16 evidence that they committed any type of criminal activity being

17 detained. If we look at the bottom of page 3.

18 A. Yes. This is a fairly detailed report, again summarising activity

19 in the corps. And it does state on page 3: "Certain tensions are still

20 present in the Kotor Varos, Kljuc, Sanski Most, and Prijedor areas because

21 of a large number of arrested citizens for whom there's no evidence or

22 criminal reports that they participated in the armed rebellion." There

23 are -- there are a number of other key sections of this document which we

24 can cover later or cover now.

25 Q. Why don't we do it now if there's something you'd like to point

Page 19333












12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and

13 English transcripts.













Page 19334

1 out from this document, we should do while we're here.

2 A. In relation to visits to the camps, there's a comment at the top

3 of the section about the visit of Tadeusz Mazowiecki who is a UN Special

4 Rapporteur who visited a number of camps in Bosnia, and also visited -- or

5 attempted to visit Manjaca camp. And it makes comments more generally

6 about the visits at this time or in the previous month of the

7 international community and the press being aware within the international

8 community of camps.

9 And on page 2, it states: "The intolerant attitude of the

10 international community towards the Serb's position in BH is causing

11 extreme distrust of their goodwill. In this period, there was a great

12 interest in the visits to LRZs," which I believe are detention camps.

13 "With euphoria, the dominant feeling, interest in the sick and difficult

14 cases and attempts to show the world, public, the unbearable condition in

15 these camps. These and especially their negative portrayal of the

16 situation has increased antagonism of soldiers towards these international

17 institutions. We are confronted with the problems of having to refuse

18 their visits to many checkpoints because of this. The most evident

19 example was the calculated, tactless, and unannounced visit by Mr. Tadeusz

20 Mazowiecki the Special Rapporteur. Although the majority of foreign

21 journalists portrayed the situation very realistically, both on the

22 battlefield and in the LRZs controlled by us, some journalists especially

23 from Canada used skillfull fabrications to try to blame the Serbs and the

24 Federal Republic of Yugoslavia for the crisis."

25 There's another reference further down on this document until to

Page 19335

1 the ICRC and the view of the Krajina Corps at this time towards the ICRC.

2 "The ICRC's approach to distributing humanitarian aid is having a very

3 detrimental effect on morale of soldiers and units. This aid is mostly

4 distributed to prisoners of war, Muslims, Croats, and crisis areas. Not a

5 single case has been registered that aid was given to threaten Serbs whose

6 lives are becoming increasingly hard because of the participation of

7 soldiers on the front, electricity shortages, disrupted distribution of

8 supplies, and the overall blockade."

9 There's a reference in paragraph 2. I'd like to draw your

10 attention to a note of the overall political and security situation August

11 1992 was characterised by the following: "The activities of several

12 paramilitary governments and armed formations, increased extremism towards

13 the Muslim and Croat population, continued efforts to place the organs of

14 authorities and the MUP above military formations and the army, RIK,"

15 which I believe is command and control system.

16 And it states: "For these reasons the 1st Krajina Corps commander

17 held a meeting with all unit commanders and municipal presidents at which

18 he pointed to the problem of existence of para-governments and

19 paramilitaries and the need to overcome this crisis in view of the

20 objectives of the war we are waging at the present time. This was

21 followed by a certain relaxation of tensions and activities directed at

22 overcoming the crisis and help the legal functioning of the Serbian

23 republic."

24 This again cuts to what we were discussing yesterday in relation

25 to it wasn't a seamless relationship, and there were undoubtedly some

Page 19336

1 difficulties, but the methods in which were implied to try and relax those

2 issues. There is also a reference in this document to the massacre we

3 discussed in relation to Mount Vlasic on page 3 and pages 4, states: "The

4 CSB especially interest Prijedor is not contributing to this approach.

5 Prijedor headed by Stevo Drljaca" - they got the name slightly wrong -

6 "who led a convoy of people who wanted to leave the crisis area, they

7 committed a massacre in the Skender Vakuf area of over 150 men who wanted

8 to leave the territory of the Krajina Autonomous Region. This action

9 caused indignation not only among citizens but also among the 1st Krajina

10 Corps soldiers. This dark stain which was created did not have support,

11 but it is very fortunate that the international community did not find out

12 about it in more detail."

13 There are some other issues which we discussed yesterday in

14 relation to some of the topics of the government relationship and

15 functioning of the courts that are also referenced in this document.

16 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Nicholls.

17 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you.

18 Q. Thank you, Mr. Brown. And you have a section in the next

19 paragraph 2.130 of your report, still on page 108. We've seen that in

20 August, the 1st Krajina Corps was acutely aware that citizens were being

21 held at Manjaca camp. What evidence did you find that citizens were

22 released from Manjaca camp because they should not have been there and

23 when did that take place?

24 A. The documents indicated that it wasn't until November that there

25 was a release, and that was relatively limited in terms of the numbers of

Page 19337

1 prisoners who were there. And it wasn't until December 1992 when the camp

2 closed that the majority of the prisoners were released.

3 Q. And according to the documentation you've found, how were these

4 people released? You cite it well in your report, but I take it that it

5 wasn't an, we apologise for holding you for so long. You're free to go

6 back to your municipality you came from. That's not what occurred is it?

7 A. No. They were taken on buses and taken to Croatia.

8 Q. Do you connect that in any way to the issue of resettlement which

9 we were talking about quite a lot yesterday.

10 A. Yes, I do. I do. I think I've argued in the report that the

11 issue of detention camps I don't think can be separated from that overall

12 objective of resettlement.

13 Q. And I think paragraph 2.133 in your report on page 109, you

14 explain that position. And the last sentence of that paragraph on page

15 110 states: "These camps were in essence a component in the policy of

16 separation in which the military participated." That's correct, isn't it?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Could you just briefly talk about the other evidence you saw in

19 compiling your report of civilian and police cooperation or coordination

20 in the topic of camps in general in addition to just bringing people to

21 the camps which we've already talked about and the selection of those who

22 went to the camps, because you do talk about a couple other topics in that

23 paragraph. I'm referring to the establishment of the camps and the

24 transfer of prisoners between camps.

25 A. Yes. I think the whole process, the initial capture, movement to

Page 19338

1 initial detention centres, the selection process, transfer on to

2 established detention centres, security issues in relation to detention

3 centres, and the movement out and transfer out of people from those

4 detention centres, often included both military, civilian, and police

5 involvement.

6 Q. Thank you.

7 MR. NICHOLLS: Your Honours, I don't know if I said it, but I'd

8 like to say it for the record, the document cited in footnote 518, it's

9 the 1st Krajina Corps command regular army report which talks about

10 prisoners being released from Manjaca camp, a thousand of them being

11 escorted out of the territory of the RS. Your Honours, that is P441, for

12 your reference. I don't think we need to go through the whole document.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: 441.

14 MR. NICHOLLS: Yes, Your Honours.

15 JUDGE AGIUS: I notice also, Mr. Nicholls, that 516 is 441, too.

16 MR. NICHOLLS: Footnote 516.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: In our spreadsheet, 518 is unmarked as an exhibit.

18 And you're telling us it's 441, P441. But I notice that footnote 516

19 refers to Exhibit P441, which is different.

20 MR. NICHOLLS: I may have made a mistake, Your Honour.

21 JUDGE AGIUS: Which will certainly not be the first one or the

22 last.

23 MR. NICHOLLS: Sorry, Your Honour. I think I would like to put

24 518 -- it needs an exhibit number. If we can put that up, and I will

25 enter that as --

Page 19339

1 JUDGE AGIUS: We will give it 2426.

2 MR. NICHOLLS: Yes. In that case, I'd just ask Mr. Brown to look

3 at it.

4 Q. If you can tell us whether that stands for the proposition we were

5 talking about, prisoners once they were released from Manjaca camp were

6 not released to their homes but were escorted out of the territory of the

7 RS.

8 A. Yes, also in this section, it states that 413 prisoners are to

9 remain and be used for exchange, presumably prisoner exchange, with Serbs

10 that were being held in other areas.

11 Q. Thank you.

12 Now, the next section of your report, still on page 110, is

13 something we've talked about all along, the removal of the non-Serb

14 population from towns and villages. I'd like to just look at a couple

15 documents which you've selected to illustrate this process. The first one

16 is one of the documents listed in footnote 522. There are a couple

17 documents in there. This is a 1 KK, 13th of August, 1992, regular combat

18 report to the main staff. Hopefully it will come up in a minute. This is

19 another document authored by Colonel Vukelic.

20 MR. NICHOLLS: This will be P2427, Your Honours.

21 Q. Well, it will come up in a minute, but before it does, can you --

22 this is fairly self-evident, but explain why you selected this document

23 for this section of your report.

24 A. Yes. This was another document that made reference to the fact

25 that a large number of Muslims and Croats were moving out of the

Page 19340

1 territory. The military documents used different words, different times,

2 but this was one that I choose as a footnote. And it states in paragraph

3 3 on the situation in the territory: "In the area of Prijedor in the Sana

4 valley, no new extremist or rebel groups were detected, and there's a

5 growing number of requests for an organised moving out of Muslims and

6 Croats from the entire area of the Autonomous Region of Krajina."

7 Q. Thank you. The next document I'd like you to look at in this

8 regard, similar, it's also in footnote 522. This has been exhibited as

9 P421, Your Honours. This is the 1st Krajina Corps command 6 September

10 1992 regular combat report to the main staff. And could you please just

11 comment on your selection of this particular document to illustrate the

12 removal of the non-Serb population.

13 A. Well, again, this is a document a little bit later. It states:

14 "attacks on all areas of the Serb Republic and Republic of Serbian Krajina

15 may be launched very soon, especially after the exodus of the majority of

16 the Croatian population and a part of the Muslim population from Banja

17 Luka and other towns."

18 This is just another example. This time it's called an exodus,

19 but it's another example in the military documents, contemporary military

20 documents, of their awareness that a significant number of Croats and

21 Muslims were leaving the Autonomous Region of Krajina. And in the report,

22 I've listed other references that make note of those. They do use

23 different phrases and different words, but there are a reasonable number

24 of references in the Krajina documents or military documents especially to

25 this effect.

Page 19341

1 Q. Now, if we go to paragraph 2.136 of your report, it's on page 111,

2 you discuss there evidence again of cooperation or coordination between

3 military, civilian, and police authorities, or at least their awareness of

4 this issue of the movement out of the population and resettlement and

5 active cooperation between these bodies. Can you just talk about how -- a

6 little bit about how you arrived at that conclusion?

7 A. Could you reference the page again, please.

8 Q. Page 111, top of the page 2.136. Take your time to read that

9 section and refresh your memory.

10 A. I think in the chapter itself, I've referenced a number of

11 footnotes that would indicate this issue that there was cooperation

12 between military and civilian authorities that make reference to the

13 knowledge and the movement out of the population. In a number of Crisis

14 Staff minutes, they discuss this. It's referenced in military documents.

15 And I think a lot of the footnotes in this chapter make -- attest to that.

16 Q. Thank you. If we look at footnote 539, that's Exhibit P1608, Your

17 Honours. This is an excerpt of minutes from the Kotor Varos war

18 presidency of the 14th of July, 1992. The reference is on page 113 of the

19 report, in paragraph 2.142. I think this goes to what we have been

20 talking about. Can you just explain why you introduced this document into

21 your report.

22 A. Yes. It's a Crisis Staff meeting at which there was military

23 representatives and civilian representatives. And item 2 on the agenda

24 makes reference to activities relating to the moving out of the population

25 failed to meet expectation. This task must be dealt with in a much more

Page 19342

1 organised fashion, and an agency has to be established to handle these

2 matters. This is one small example at Kotor Varos municipality whereby

3 this issue of removal is being discussed and action is being suggested in

4 the moving out of the population. It's by no means the only example, I

5 think, in my references.

6 Q. Thank you. Similarly, if we go to another document you

7 referenced, that is footnote 563, this appears on page 118 of your

8 report. This is a 1st Krajina Corps command 10th of July, 1992, combat

9 report to the main staff.

10 MR. NICHOLLS: Your Honours, this has been previously exhibited as

11 1469.

12 Q. We just looked at a Crisis Staff document from Kotor Varos. Could

13 you look at -- explain why you included this 1 KK report which talks about

14 similar issues.

15 A. Well, this again just indicates what we discussed yesterday and

16 this morning, that the corps were acutely aware of the movement out of the

17 territory of non-Serbs, and it states that: "Muslim organisation in Kotor

18 Varos is initiating negotiations on the modes of migration from these

19 areas." This time it's called migration. And it also makes note that

20 there have been people moving away in other areas, but in Banja Luka there

21 are still some difficulties because the authorities are not sufficiently

22 organised in implementing this model for they call the removal of the

23 enemy. So it's just an interesting reference in terms of the language

24 used and their knowledge that people are leaving, non-Serbs are leaving

25 the territory.

Page 19343

1 Q. Thank you. The next and last document I'd like to look at on this

2 issue appears in footnote 573 which -- actually the reference begins on

3 page 119 of your report, paragraph 2.158.

4 MR. NICHOLLS: Your Honours, this has previously been exhibited as

5 P1059.

6 Q. It's a fairly detailed report of events in Kljuc. It's written

7 in -- it's dated 16th of February, 1993, but refers back in a sort of

8 summary of activities during the combat period in May. Could you please

9 explain to us what this report is and the areas you find most

10 significant. You can take your time to find and look at the report.

11 A. This document, I think, is useful in -- to some degree showing us

12 a vignette some of the issues I discussed yesterday and today. It's a

13 document written in February 1993, but clearly referring back to

14 activities in the previous months in Kljuc municipality. And it's a

15 document that was written after a meeting that had been held apparently on

16 the 3rd of February, 1993, involving many of the significant

17 representatives in Kljuc municipality, civilian representatives, police

18 representatives, as well as the commander of the 17th Brigade, Colonel

19 Drago Samardzija.

20 The 17th Brigade had been formed out of a brigade that was under

21 General Talic's command, the 1st Partisan Brigade, which was actually a

22 component of the 30th Brigade. And in this meeting, they are clearly

23 discussing many issues in relation to Kljuc Municipality. And it appears

24 that as a result of this meeting, the assistant commander for civilian

25 affairs of the 17th Brigade toured the area of Kljuc, either was asked to

Page 19344

1 write a report on the situation, and this appears to be that report.

2 And in it, he writes about the activities that had occurred in

3 Kljuc in essence from May 1992 onwards, and he makes a number of important

4 comments. I draw your attention to page 2 which talks about the onset of

5 the war in the Kljuc area. And if I run through some of the comments he

6 makes, he states: "As I have already pointed out, the war was imposed on

7 us by our centuries-old enemies who hated and still hate everything

8 Serbian. In this century, they have committed three acts of genocide

9 against us. The fight against Ustasha villains commenced on the 27th of

10 May, 1992, in the territory of the Velagici local commune and soon spilled

11 over to the area north of Kljuc. This happened in the predominantly

12 Muslim areas. Indeed, the Serbian army, police, and Serbian people

13 crushed and routed genocide-prone Ustashas in one fell swoop and cleansed

14 the remaining Ustashas from the Kljuc municipality. By this act, the

15 Serbian people made a clean break once and for all with the centuries-old

16 enemy."

17 I think this particular section has some importance both in terms

18 of the language used and the reason he puts forward as why the activity --

19 combat activity occurred. But I draw your attention to his reference to

20 the date, 27th of May, and my references in footnote 274 which relate to

21 disarmament issues and decrees that were articulated in Kljuc

22 Municipality. Again, cutting back to what I discussed yesterday about the

23 importance from the documents of this issue of disarmament as being the --

24 an important feature in municipalities and linking to the attacks that

25 occurred in those municipalities. He then goes on to talk about

Page 19345

1 individuals and large groups who began illegally appropriating Muslim

2 property and Muslim villages and hamlets during combat actions and also

3 later on after combat actions had ceased.

4 He made reference that this was done by military personnel,

5 members of the police, and local Serbs, and this problem had been as he

6 called, spread like an epidemic, and that moveable and immoveable property

7 had been stolen from areas, Muslim and Croat areas, in the municipality.

8 He makes reference that in order to stop this type of activity,

9 that the municipality pass a decree saying that moveable and immoveable

10 property in areas that had been Muslim and Croat was to become the

11 property of the state. Now, that -- although he doesn't reference it in

12 this document, I've referenced a document in my report in relation to this

13 issue of appropriating for state use the moveable and immoveable property

14 from those who had left or who had been forced to leave or who had been

15 taken prisoner. And in my report, I draw certainly from the military's

16 perspective this distinction that in many ways there was, from a military

17 and General Talic's comments, documents talking about we should stamp down

18 on looting of moveable and immoveable property, that individuals were

19 getting wealthy on the back of this, but that there was a mechanism by

20 which moveable and immovable property was to be appropriated for the state

21 use and for the benefit of the RS authorities. And that was not

22 challenged by the military. But where they felt uneasy about the issue of

23 looting, that it was individuals in essence taking property rather than it

24 being used for the benefits of the state. And I believe that this

25 document also makes reference to that, too.

Page 19346

1 On page 4, the document talks about in detail the issue of

2 departure of Muslims from the period of May 1992. And in it, he lists a

3 number of the communes and areas within Kljuc Municipality which I've

4 referenced in my report also. And he lists the number of residents who

5 were in the municipality or the commune prior to the combat action and how

6 many were left. And it's very clear that in those communes which are

7 predominantly Muslim, that most of the communes are -- there are very few

8 people left in them. And this document really for me is important in

9 highlighting a knowledge that that was the state of play in this

10 particular municipality.

11 Q. And it also, does it not, you read through this section, but I

12 think it's important, on page 2, the language about how the Serb people

13 routed this century-old enemy and cleansed the area. The credit in that

14 paragraph is given, is it not, not just to the military but to the

15 military, the police, and the Serbian people acting together?

16 A. Yes, very much. And in terms of the language, it's a very stark

17 language in comparison to the type of language that was being used earlier

18 in JNA and military reports at the end of 1991 and early 1992.

19 Q. We talked about that yesterday as well.

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Just before we move on to the final area I want to talk about,

22 paragraph -- in paragraph 2.160, we won't go through it all, I think

23 that's an important section of your report. In that case, you are

24 summarising some of the similar issues as they are referenced in SJB or

25 CSB reports relating to the movement out of the population during this

Page 19347

1 period.

2 A. Yes. Those reports also indicate figures and numbers of people

3 who have left in those municipalities that I've quoted.

4 Q. Thank you.

5 MR. NICHOLLS: Your Honours, I'm up to the last section. I'll

6 definitely finish on schedule. I don't think I can finish it in 5 or 6

7 minutes, so I wonder if we could take a short break now early, and I'll

8 finish right after we come back.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: How much time do you require more or less?

10 MR. NICHOLLS: I think about 15, 20 minutes. Maybe less.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: I don't know. I was going to suggest, if it is okay

12 with everyone obviously because I haven't consulted everyone, if we could

13 have a very short break so that they change the tapes, say 5 minutes or

14 so, and then we go on for the next 15 minutes, 20 minutes, and then we

15 finish.

16 All right, so we'll have a 20-minute break. Thank you.

17 Incidentally, before we leave the courtroom, Mr. Ackerman, when you come

18 to the cross-examination of this witness, and Mr. Treanor, you are being

19 authorised as from now to bring forward and sit by your side an expert of

20 your own if you want who would be able to assist you in your

21 cross-examination to secure a more efficient cross-examination. I know

22 from experience that when it comes to cross-examine an expert witness,

23 having by your side your own expert witness, your own expert helps you

24 very much in conducting a proper cross-examination. That would apply, of

25 course, to the Prosecution, too, if and when Mr. Ackerman brings forward

Page 19348

1 his own expert witnesses.

2 MR. NICHOLLS: You mean, Your Honours, that the expert can

3 literally pass questions to Mr. Ackerman?

4 JUDGE AGIUS: What I mean is Mr. Ackerman may have sitting next to

5 him say a military expert of his own. And -- because what happens is you

6 put a question, you don't always anticipate the answer. Sometimes you get

7 an answer, and if you're not an expert yourself on the matter, you don't

8 know how to follow up. And if you have your expert sitting next to you,

9 he will direct you to having a proper, efficient cross-examination. But

10 this is in case I forget, so I'm telling you now. 20-minute break. Thank

11 you.

12 --- Recess taken at 10.26 a.m.

13 --- On resuming at 10.50 a.m.

14 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Mr. Nicholls. Wait until the accused takes

15 his -- oh, no. This is the Stakic. Could Ms. Gustin remind me what

16 exhibit number we gave to the Stakic transcript?

17 JUDGE JANU: 2415.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: 2415. Thank you. Let's proceed.

19 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you, Your Honours. Apparently we're again

20 having a problem with the Sanction, so I may just use the ELMO. There are

21 a couple of documents I wish to enter, new exhibits.

22 Q. Mr. Brown, the last section of your report I want to cover is that

23 contained in pages 157 through 161 entitled: "Cooperation with the FRY."

24 Can you go to that section of your report, please.

25 A. Yes, I have it here.

Page 19349

1 Q. Now, in this section you talk about essentially three types of

2 cooperation, that of logistic supply, financial and personnel issues, and

3 communication, radio, and technical reconnaissance. Could you please just

4 briefly give us a definition or just a shorthand explanation of what those

5 three types of assistance entail when you use those terms, in your report,

6 what do they go to?

7 A. Well, logistic supply obviously is anything that can keep a

8 military functioning and covers a wide array of topics, from ammunition,

9 fuel, medical, anything that can keep the army going. Finance and

10 personnel issue clearly is fairly self-explanatory. And communication and

11 radio technical reconnaissance relates to communication issues in terms of

12 ensuring information can flow between units and formations. So it covers

13 those areas.

14 Q. All right. Speaking -- well, you begin in 2.253, that paragraph

15 on page 157, just to be clear, that after the establishment of the VRS in

16 May, there continued to be close links with the -- you say, between the

17 VRS and the VJ after that transition. Correct?

18 A. Yes. I initially in the report, when I was looking at the issue

19 of the 16th assembly session and relations to the objectives and looking

20 into the issue of, to coin a phrase, all Serbs in one state, wanted to

21 look into the military documentation to see what evidence there may be in

22 relation to this link between the VRS and VJ. And that was the reason I

23 began looking at the documentation for that.

24 Q. All right. In paragraph 2.255 on the same page, you talk about a

25 plan to supply logistics report which was named "IZVOR" or "Source." And

Page 19350

1 that included ammunition and other material. Could we please look at your

2 footnote 764, that's a VRS main staff instruction dated 12th September,

3 1992. And that will be P2428. And we need to put that on the ELMO, I'm

4 afraid. I will put my copy up. It has got some highlighting on it.

5 May I ask you to briefly explain to us what that document tells

6 you and why you selected it for this topic of logistic supply.

7 A. This document dated 12th September comes from the assistant

8 commander for logistics at the main staff, Major-General Djordje Djukic.

9 And he was writing back to the 1st Krajina Corps, to General Talic

10 personally in relation to a correspondence that had apparently taken place

11 the previous day. And the document makes reference to this plan, IZVOR.

12 And it states: "Following the agreement with the general staff of the

13 Federal Republic of Yugoslav army, we have been granted the required

14 amount of ammunition. In keeping with the IZVOR Source plan, the 14th

15 logistics base has begun taking the ammunition and has so far taken over

16 225 tonnes. The takeover of the remaining 220 tonnes follows."

17 He then talks about this logistics base having to supply both the

18 1st and 2nd Krajina Corps and its own logistic commands, and to check

19 whether any surplus ammunition they don't need from presumably this

20 delivered ammunition. It states: "The situation with ammunition supply

21 is very difficult since all ammunition factories are either closed or

22 working at minimum capacity. The SRJ reserves are limited. We have

23 undertaken measures to procure raw material for the production of higher

24 calibre ammunition. According to the agreement reached, the base and the

25 corps are also allowed to procure ammunition and fuel in the SRJ provided

Page 19351

1 that the base or corps representatives go to the base in Pancevo to

2 discuss the amounts and the loading point. At present this applies to the

3 agreement under the IZVOR plan, and for later cases you will receive

4 further instructions on what to do and how to proceed."

5 The date is of some significance in that it comes only a month or

6 two, or a few months after the corridor was established, the corridor

7 operation started in the end of June. A corridor link was established

8 very swiftly, within a week or two, and then there were operations to

9 widen that corridor through July and August. So this comes to all intents

10 and purposes on the back of the success of operation corridor and clearly

11 is a plan for the provision of ammunition between the SRJ and the VRS.

12 Q. Thank you. I'm done with that document. In addition to

13 ammunition, you talk about other supplies which were provided. If we look

14 at your footnote 770 on page 158.

15 MR. NICHOLLS: Your Honours, that is part of a larger document

16 which has previously been exhibited as P2419.

17 Q. You have selected a chart from a VRS main staff document entitled

18 "Analysis of the Combat Readiness of the Army of the Republika Srpska in

19 1992." The document, the analysis, dated April 1993. Unfortunately,

20 because of the photocopy, this is a bit difficult to read, but could you

21 explain what this diagram represents in terms of the logistic support we

22 have been talking about.

23 A. This is the document we discussed very briefly yesterday which was

24 a very large document in relation to many aspects of the VRS. And in the

25 section that deals with logistics, this chart is apparent, and the bottom

Page 19352

1 chart is a graphic representation of the ammunition received according to

2 the IZVOR and Pretis plans. The darker blocks on the chart, and in fact,

3 the original is easier to read than the translation, the darker blocks

4 indicate the tonnage of ammunition that was received from the SRJ in

5 relation to the IZVOR plan. And from this chart, it appears that 7.451

6 tonnes of ammunition had been received in accordance with this plan.

7 Q. Thank you. And in the following paragraphs, 2.256, you talk about

8 other references to logistic supply which we won't go through all of them

9 in detail. I would like to look at one of them which has not yet been

10 made an exhibit. That is footnote 775. This is a 1st Krajina Corps

11 command regular combat report to the main staff from 6 December, 1992.

12 And this, again, talks about some logistic support being provided,

13 I believe, in the form of repairs or services. Could you explain that,

14 please.

15 A. Yes. In section 6 dealing with logistic support, it makes

16 reference to the fact that 3.000 82-millimetre shells had come back from

17 repairs in the SRJ.

18 Q. Thank you. And I think that's fairly self-explanatory. That's

19 P2429, Your Honours, please.

20 The next document I'd like to look at is footnoted as 777 in the

21 same section of your report. This is a 1st Krajina Corps fuel

22 authorisation certificate dated 21st of October, 1992. And this will be

23 P2430, please.

24 Could you --

25 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Mr. Nicholls, I can't trace which document we

Page 19353

1 gave the number 2428. Can you help me.

2 MR. NICHOLLS: That was footnote 764, Your Honour, I'm told.


4 MR. NICHOLLS: Yes, that's a VRS main staff instruction from 12th

5 September, 1992.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: 2428. I don't quite know whether it went in the

7 transcript. I don't think it did.

8 Let's go on.

9 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, while we're at a short pause, I notice

10 that all the exhibit numbers are going in today with a slash between the

11 numbers. I hope that gets fixed in the final one so that that slash is

12 not there because that makes it difficult to do searches. And just for

13 the court reporter and for the people that are working on transcripts, I'd

14 like to make sure that gets cleared up.

15 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, all right. I've found it now. All right.

16 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you, Mr. Ackerman. I hadn't noticed that.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you, Mr. Ackerman.


19 Q. Footnote 777, I've forgotten now, that was 2430, again fairly

20 self-explanatory, but could you tell us why you selected this one and its

21 significance to you.

22 A. This is a blank authorisation certificate, although it is signed

23 by General Talic. It again makes reference to fuel being taken over,

24 which is a logistic issue, in the territory of the FRY. And the important

25 issue is that it's pursuant to an order of the 3rd of August issued by the

Page 19354

1 chief of the general staff of the Yugoslav army for logistics. So again,

2 it indicates a senior level or a high level of authorisation and

3 cooperation to allow you this -- this assistance to occur in relation to

4 fuel.

5 Q. Thank you.

6 MR. NICHOLLS: And Your Honours, I notice that we haven't been

7 able to put this up --

8 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Ackerman.

9 MR. ACKERMAN: I didn't mean to interrupt Mr. Nicholls, Your

10 Honour.

11 MR. NICHOLLS: I was just going to say we could put this on the

12 ELMO because apparently there's a difficulty in retrieving it.

13 MR. ACKERMAN: Is it possible that the ERN on that is 03005269

14 instead of 5296?

15 MR. NICHOLLS: It's 5269 on the --

16 MR. ACKERMAN: Because the footnote indicates 5296.

17 MR. NICHOLLS: That may be an error, if we could put this on the

18 ELMO, we can all be sure this is the document.

19 THE WITNESS: I think this might be on the errata sheet that I did

20 to the report. I think I did make a mistake in putting the ERN reference.

21 JUDGE AGIUS: And actually, between -- in the spreadsheet that we

22 were given, it is 5269. So we need to decide. Anyway, it can be checked

23 easily.

24 MR. NICHOLLS: Yes. I'm done with that document, thank you,

25 unless you have any other comment you'd like to make, Mr. Brown.

Page 19355

1 THE WITNESS: No, I don't.


3 Q. Finally, turning to page 160 of your report, finishing with

4 logistics assistance, the section Financial and Personnel Issues, you

5 begin talking about that in paragraph 2.260. And in that paragraph, you

6 discuss some of the problems facing the VRS at that time in terms of

7 finance, salaries, that type of -- that type of -- those types of

8 problems. You've selected a document in footnote 784 which illustrates

9 how some of this assistance, financial assistance, took place.

10 MR. NICHOLLS: This is VRS -- it's the same document we looked at

11 earlier, Your Honours. P2419. The analysis from April 1993, it's just a

12 different page of that larger document. This is a bit detailed.

13 Q. Could you explain why you selected this and what the different

14 sections mean in terms of financing of the VRS army.

15 A. I only really selected it to highlight the fact that

16 post-transition between the JNA and the VRS, that Yugoslavia continued to

17 pay the salaries of officers, noncommissioned officers, and soldiers

18 working under contract and workers, civilian workers, who remained in the

19 VRS after this period. And this is a quote -- or there's two references

20 in this combat analysis readiness report to that effect. So there

21 continued to be a component of the VRS paid directly from Belgrade in

22 relation to salaries and payments. That's why I added this quote in.

23 Q. And we can just see - we don't need to go through it completely in

24 detail - but there were different stages in which the assistance or the

25 problems facing the VRS had different forms.

Page 19356

1 A. Yes. It appears that there was an initial period whereby Belgrade

2 continued to pay. Then the RS authorities financed a component of the

3 army, but that these people who had previously been JNA personnel,

4 officers, NCOs, soldiers, civilians under contract and the like continued

5 to be paid directly from Belgrade. There were some difficulties in terms

6 of payment. General Talic made some comments himself at times, but this

7 document and others indicated that this payment of those people remained

8 from Belgrade.

9 Q. Thank you. Do you have any other comment you'd like to make on

10 that document or financial and personnel issues?

11 A. No. I think I have made some references and comments in the

12 report itself. I've nothing necessarily to add there.

13 MR. NICHOLLS: That's the end of my direct examination, Your

14 Honours.

15 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, Mr. Nicholls. So that brings us to the

16 end of the first part of your testimony, Mr. Brown. As I explained to you

17 yesterday, you will need to return here at some later point in time. I

18 can't tell you the exact date now. But it's assumed to be either end of

19 August or beginning of October, depends on what Mr. Ackerman and

20 Ms. Korner or Mr. Nicholls decide.

21 Yes, Mr. Ackerman, I see you're standing.

22 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, I can tell you now that it will have

23 to be in October, early in our first sitting in October.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: It's no problem. As I explained, you have -- you

25 are free to bring over your expert to assist you in the

Page 19357

1 cross-examination. That also supplies also when you cross-examine

2 Mr. Treanor.

3 So that's it. Mr. Brown, I don't know how to thank you. You have

4 been extremely helpful.

5 THE WITNESS: Thank you for your time, Your Honours.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: And you'll be escorted. You are free to communicate

7 with Ms. Korner and Mr. Nicholls on anything barring what you've testified

8 about. All right? Thank you.

9 [The witness stands down]

10 JUDGE AGIUS: So -- yes, Mr. Nicholls.

11 MR. NICHOLLS: Your Honour, I'd like to know -- just one second,

12 I'm sorry. I have one point but I need to...

13 Just because I'm not sure, Your Honour, can we go into private

14 session.

15 JUDGE AGIUS: Let's go into private session.

16 [Private session]

17 (Redacted)

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Page 19358












12 Page 19358 redacted private session.














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17 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned

18 at 11.17 a.m., to be reconvened on Monday,

19 the 14th day of July, 2003,

20 at 2.15 p.m.