Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 398

 1                           Monday, 2 February 2009

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           --- Upon commencing at 2.16 p.m.

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  Good afternoon.

 6             If the case for hearing could be called, please.

 7             THE REGISTRAR:  Good afternoon, Your Honours.  This is

 8     case number IT-05-87/1-T, the Prosecutor versus Vlastimir Djordjevic.

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

10             If the witness, who's parted, could be brought in.

11             While that's happening, could the Chamber mention that on

12     Friday -- sorry, on Wednesday of this week, we've been asked by another

13     Trial Chamber to switch sittings with them because they have a

14     difficulty, and because of that we will sit in the afternoon of Wednesday

15     rather than in the morning.

16             Closed session for the witness's entry, please.

17                           [Closed session]

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

21   (redacted)

22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

Page 399

 1   (redacted)

 2                           [Open session]

 3             THE REGISTRAR:  We're in open session, Your Honours.

 4             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Stamp.

 5             MR. STAMP:  Thank you very much, Your Honours, and good

 6     afternoon.

 7                           Examination by Mr. Stamp: [Continued]

 8        Q.   And good afternoon to you, K83.

 9        A.   Good afternoon.

10        Q.   Last time you were here you were speaking about Todor Jovanovic,

11     who brought Jashar Berisha from the police station to the vicinity of the

12     pizzeria.  Did Jashar arrive with Jovanovic willingly or did he appear to

13     be unwilling?

14        A.   He was brought there against his will.

15        Q.   Thank you.  Now could we move on to the next day.  That day, did

16     you see Todor Jovanovic?

17        A.   Yes, I did.

18        Q.   Do you know what he was doing the next day, that's the 27th of

19     March, if anything?

20        A.   On that day, well, since the gasoline station was not working, we

21     went on orders of Commander Repanovic to get Jashar Berisha to come and

22     open the gasoline station.

23        Q.   Which day are you speaking about?

24        A.   Well, I cannot remember the exact date, but it's that day.

25        Q.   The day of the shooting in the pizzeria?

Page 400

 1        A.   Yes, that's right.

 2        Q.   I see.  Now if we could move on to the day after that.  Did you

 3     observe whether or not Jovanovic was involved in any investigations at

 4     all?

 5        A.   Yes.

 6        Q.   Could you tell us about that?  What was he doing the next day,

 7     that day?

 8        A.   On that day, I mean, well, the crime technician took pictures of

 9     the corpses and took the details.

10        Q.   Which corpses were these?  Do you know -- let me clarify.  Do you

11     know what caused the death of these corpses or what circumstances these

12     people were killed?

13        A.   Well, they had been killed.

14        Q.   Where were these corpses located?

15        A.   Well, they were there by the pizzeria, the road towards Rastane

16     and behind the OSCE house.

17        Q.   No.  I'm asking you precisely, K83, which corpses did you see --

18             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic.

19             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Objection, Your Honour.  The

20     witness stated where he had gone with the investigation team and where

21     the corpses were.  The Prosecutor is trying to get the witness to give

22     him the answer that he wants, and the witness gave a very specific answer

23     already, where he was with the investigation team.  Thank you.

24             JUDGE PARKER:  Well --

25             MR. STAMP:  The witness has not said where he was with the

Page 401

 1     investigation team.

 2             JUDGE PARKER:  I think, gentlemen, we are being very --

 3     shadow-sparring over something that is not a significant issue, unless I

 4     misunderstand things.  I will ask a question of the witness which might

 5     clarify this and allow us to move on.

 6             You're speaking of corpses on the 27th of March.  In your

 7     evidence on Friday you described the killing of a number of people, two

 8     by the OSCE house and others at or in the vicinity of the pizzeria.  The

 9     corpses that were photographed on the 27th of March, are they the same

10     corpses that had been killed the previous day or are they different

11     bodies?

12             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] All the corpses were photographed,

13     and Dr. Boban established that all the corpses were dead.

14             JUDGE PARKER:  I think you are misunderstanding the issue.  Maybe

15     I didn't put it clearly enough.  We're just wanting to know whether these

16     are the people that you saw killed the previous day or are they different

17     people that were photographed on the 27th of March?

18             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] On the 27th of March, other people

19     were also photographed, people who weren't by the pizzeria.

20             JUDGE PARKER:  The people who were killed on the 26th of March,

21     were they photographed by the crime technician on the 27th of March?

22             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

23             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

24             MR. STAMP:

25        Q.   You said you saw the people who were killed at the pizzeria,

Page 402

 1     their bodies placed into trucks which were driven away.  Do you recall

 2     saying that, K83?

 3        A.   Yes.

 4        Q.   Where were they photographed?

 5        A.   Right there by the pizzeria.

 6        Q.   Okay.  Maybe there is some confusion on the dates.  Were they

 7     photographed on the same day that they were killed or were they

 8     photographed on another day?

 9        A.   Those in front of the pizzeria were photographed on that day,

10     whereas the other ones on the road towards Rastane were photographed on

11     the following day, and they were buried out there in the cemetery, under

12     the codes that were already there.

13        Q.   Very well.  Now I'd like to focus on those who were photographed

14     on the following day, that is, those who were killed on the road to

15     Rastane, and I think you said there were some others in the vicinity of

16     the OSCE house.  Were there corpses in the vicinity of the OSCE house

17     that was photographed the day after the killing at the pizzeria, that is,

18     the 27th of March?

19        A.   I didn't understand that question.

20        Q.   I just want to clarify something that I think you might have

21     said.  The day after the incident in the pizzeria, some bodies were

22     photographed.  Were the bodies that were photographed the day after the

23     killing in the pizzeria inclusive of bodies that were at the vicinity of

24     the OSCE house?

25        A.   Yes.

Page 403

 1        Q.   Good.  Now I'd like to focus on these bodies that were

 2     photographed on the 27th, that's the day after the pizzeria incident.

 3     Were these persons civilians or not?

 4        A.   Yes, they were civilians.

 5        Q.   Do you know the circumstances of how these persons came to be

 6     killed?  And that's apart from the four that you saw being shot.

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.

 8             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Objection, Your Honour.  First of

 9     all, the witness has to say about what corpses he is talking.  It's not

10     for the Prosecutor to infer that these are different corpses in relation

11     to the ones by the OSCE house.

12             JUDGE PARKER:  We do seem to be getting into some confusion,

13     Mr. Stamp, and Mr. Djurdjic is correctly asking that you not lead the

14     witness about this matter, so that if you could be careful.  I don't

15     think that my questioning helped, in reflection, and I think that the

16     witness has it clear in his mind but we are not managing to get from him

17     what it is that is clear in his mind, so if you'd like to spend a little

18     moment trying to clarify what he says about the matter.

19             MR. STAMP:  Thank you, Your Honour.

20        Q.   You said, K83, that --

21             JUDGE PARKER:  The witness is M83, if I could mention.  K?

22             MR. STAMP:  K83.

23             JUDGE PARKER:  I have him wrongly noted as M38.  We're having a

24     good afternoon, Mr. Stamp.  Very well, K.

25             MR. STAMP:  Very well, Your Honour.

Page 404

 1        Q.   In respect to the bodies that you saw photographed the next day,

 2     the day after the pizzeria killings, in the vicinity of the OSCE house,

 3     do you know the circumstances of how those persons came to be killed?

 4             Do you understand what I just asked or would you like me to

 5     repeat it?

 6        A.   I don't understand that question.

 7        Q.   The bodies that were photographed in the vicinity of the OSCE

 8     house, what caused their death or the death of these people?

 9        A.   Well, they had been killed.

10        Q.   Do you know by whom or what, in what circumstances?

11        A.   Well, I couldn't see everything.

12        Q.   I'm asking if you know the circumstances that brought about their

13     deaths.

14        A.   They were killed by gun-fire from a rifle, I mean.

15        Q.   Do you know who shot them?

16        A.   Well, there were quite a few policemen.  I couldn't see everyone.

17        Q.   So based on what you observed, can you help us as to who shot

18     these people?

19        A.   Well, the police.

20        Q.   You said they were photographed on the 26th.  Do you know when

21     they were shot, that is, the date when they were shot?

22        A.   I could not say exactly.

23             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.

24             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Objection.  Objection,

25     Your Honour.  The witness is talking about the 27th and the honourable

Page 405

 1     Prosecutor says that these corpses were photographed on the 26th.  I

 2     would kindly ask that a precise question be put.

 3             MR. STAMP:  That is correct.  I'm referring to their being

 4     photographed -- the corpses that were photographed on the 27th.

 5        Q.   So may I rephrase the question, K83.  Those persons whose bodies

 6     were photographed in the vicinity of the OSCE house on the 27th, do you

 7     know the day - I'm not asking you for the precise time - but the day when

 8     they were shot?

 9        A.   Well, the day is the 26th.

10        Q.   Now, during 1999, that is, the year 1999, and the year 2000, do

11     you know if any of the police involved in these massacres were arrested

12     or charged?  I'm only asking you about 1999 and 2000, not what happened

13     after, if anything happened after.

14        A.   I don't know.  I really could not say exactly.

15        Q.   Did Cukaric remain in the police force during the war?

16        A.   Yes.

17        Q.   Did Tanovic remain in the police force during the war?

18        A.   Yes.

19        Q.   Did Vitosevic and Repanovic, as head of the police station and

20     commander respectively, remain in their posts during the war?

21        A.   Yes.

22        Q.   You mentioned Cegar 1, their commander.  Do you know the name of

23     the commander of Cegar 1?  Let me rephrase.  You saw the Cegar unit that

24     you saw alighting from two armoured vehicles, and you said that Cegar 1

25     was your commander.  Do you know the name of Cegar 1?

Page 406

 1        A.   Mitrovic.  Mitrovic, that's his last name.  I can't remember his

 2     first name.  I think it's Rado Mitrovic, I think.

 3        Q.   During the war in 1999, had you ever seen him at the police

 4     station?

 5        A.   Yes.  He came often to see the commander, Radojko Repanovic.  He

 6     came to sort of meetings, discussions.

 7        Q.   Do you know if he had an office or do you know where he was

 8     posted?

 9        A.   I don't know exactly where he was posted, but I know -- well, I

10     saw him often because I was on the commander's security detail.  I saw

11     him often.  I saw him coming to the police station.

12        Q.   Do you know if he remained in his position as head of the unit

13     during the war?

14        A.   Yes.

15        Q.   And do you know whether or not he was prosecuted for anything in

16     relation to these killings during 1999 and 2000?

17        A.   I don't know about 1999 and 2000, but I know that he's detained

18     now.

19        Q.   Yes.  There is a case going on now in Serbia in respect to the

20     killings in the pizzeria; is that correct?

21        A.   Yes.

22        Q.   Just one or two areas I'd like to tie up before I sit.  You said

23     that -- or perhaps I should ask a more open question.  Did Cukaric have

24     any communications equipment with him on the day of the 26th?

25        A.   Yes, yes.  He had radio communications equipment, that is to say,

Page 407

 1     two devices, two Motorolas.

 2        Q.   And in the course of the events during the 26th, from the time

 3     when Cegar 1 told you to get moving to the killings at the pizzeria, did

 4     he use those Motorolas?

 5        A.   Well, he did use them, but he would always move away from us so

 6     that we couldn't listen in to what he was saying while he was having

 7     those conversations.

 8        Q.   In the course of the events of the 26th, during the time-frame

 9     that I just mentioned, at what stage did he use the Motorolas?

10        A.   Well, I have trouble hearing what the interpreters are saying.

11     The sound is not too good.

12        Q.   During the events leading up to the killing in the pizzeria, at

13     what stage did he use the Motorolas?

14        A.   Well, he used it after everything was done, after all those

15     people had been killed in the pizzeria.

16        Q.   I'd like to take you back to the time when you, Tanovic, Cukaric,

17     and your other colleague, I think it's Petrovic, were drinking the liquor

18     that you had brought.  Did Cukaric at that time or Tanovic say what they

19     intended to do?

20        A.   Well, as far as I can recall, they didn't make any comments as to

21     what they would do, and I was really surprised when he broke the shop

22     window all of a sudden.

23             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, the witness has

24     already answered that question.  In fact, he answered it on Friday, so

25     this is asked and answered.

Page 408

 1             JUDGE PARKER:  I don't think that Mr. Stamp can be criticised for

 2     unnecessarily going over evidence again at the moment.  He is clarifying

 3     one or two matters which concern him, as I understand it.

 4             MR. STAMP:  Indeed.

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  So please continue, Mr. Stamp.

 6             MR. STAMP:  Thank you, Your Honour.

 7        Q.   After Tanovic and Cukaric shot into the pizzeria, did either of

 8     them say anything to you in respect to the shooting of these people?

 9        A.   Well, he didn't say anything.  He just said that we should take

10     shelter because he would throw a hand-grenade, because of the explosion,

11     lest any of us should be injured.

12        Q.   Yes.  And what I was asking is after the hand-grenades were

13     thrown and the shooting into the pizzeria by both Tanovic and Cukaric,

14     did they ask you to do anything in respect to -- or ask you if you wanted

15     to do anything in respect to the shooting of these people?

16        A.   Well, they asked me if I wanted to take part, but I had known

17     these people and I couldn't do it.

18        Q.   And the people who were shot in the pizzeria, what ethnicity were

19     they?

20        A.   Albanian.

21        Q.   Thank you very much, K83.  That is all I have, subject to

22     His Honour.  You will probably be asked questions by other parties here.

23             MR. STAMP:  Thank you very much, Your Honours.  That is all I

24     have in-chief, may it please you.

25             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you, Mr. Stamp.

Page 409

 1             Mr. Djurdjic, do you have cross-examination?

 2             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.  I will

 3     have some questions for this witness.

 4                           Cross-examination by Mr. Djurdjic:

 5        Q.   [Interpretation] Sir, my name is Veljko Djurdjic, and I'm a

 6     member of Mr. Vlastimir Djordjevic's Defence team.  He is the accused in

 7     this case.  Together with me is Ms. Marie O'Leary, as a team member, and

 8     lead counsel Dragoljub Djordjevic is away because he has some work on the

 9     case.

10             I would like to go on addressing you as sir.  Is that all right

11     with you?

12        A.   Yes.

13        Q.   Since we speak the same language, could I ask you please to speak

14     more slowly and to make a pause before you start giving your answers so

15     that the interpreters are able to interpret both my question and your

16     answer.

17        A.   Fine, yes.

18        Q.   If we could perhaps speed up this cross-examination by me asking

19     you questions and you answering briefly with either yes or no, if you

20     can.  If you don't understand my question, please let me know and I will

21     either rephrase or state it in more -- in clearer terms.  Can we then

22     begin?

23        A.   Yes.

24             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have Exhibit P269.

25        Q.   Sir, I hope you recognise this picture.  Do you see the church

Page 410

 1     and the church tower here, or spire?

 2        A.   Well, I can't see it.  Rather, you can see the place where it

 3     used to be, but we can't see it.

 4        Q.   Could you please mark the location where the church used to be

 5     and put number 1 next to it, and if you could also mark the location of

 6     the spire and put number 2 next to it.

 7        A.   [Marks]

 8        Q.   What did you mark with number 1?

 9        A.   The spire.

10        Q.   And number 2, that's the church?

11        A.   Yes.

12        Q.   Thank you.  The church and the spire, were they in existence on

13     the 26th of March, 1999?

14        A.   Yes.

15        Q.   When did you leave Suva Reka?

16        A.   In 1999, it was in June.  I don't know the exact date.

17        Q.   Thank you.  Could you please tell me, as you were leaving

18     Suva Reka were the church and the spire still there?

19        A.   Yes.

20        Q.   Am I right if I say that this photograph was taken after you had

21     already left Suva Reka, or after June 1999?

22        A.   Yes, that's correct.

23        Q.   Thank you.

24             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would like to tender this

25     document into evidence and I would like to get a number for it, please.

Page 411

 1             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

 2             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

 3             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be Exhibit D00008, Your Honours.

 4             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

 5        Q.   Sir, you told us that you completed secondary education.  Could

 6     you please tell us, what kind of secondary school and what is your

 7     occupation?

 8        A.   I --

 9             MR. STAMP:  Excuse me.  Let us -- I just rise because I'd like to

10     remind counsel and the witness also that in answering they should be

11     careful not to say anything in open session that might disclose his

12     identity.  So I really just rise at this point --

13             JUDGE PARKER:  I don't think this is likely to, Mr. Stamp.  Thank

14     you for your caution.

15             Carry on, please, Mr. Djurdjic.

16             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

17        Q.   Could you please give us your answer?

18        A.   I completed secondary school for car electricians.

19        Q.   We don't have to go into private session, but could you please

20     tell us when you got the job that you did get in the end, what kind of

21     work did you do?

22        A.   I worked in the warehouse where finished goods were stored.

23        Q.   Thank you.  Is it true that when you joined the reserve force in

24     1994 of the Suva Reka MUP that you actually completed training for police

25     officers?

Page 412

 1        A.   No, I did not complete the training, but we did get some

 2     training, some drills, at the Prizren training area and that counted as

 3     some kind of training.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  Is it true that when you became active in the reserve

 5     force that you were an authorised official and that you acted as a

 6     policeman with the assistance of regular-duty police officers who had

 7     more experience?

 8        A.   Yes, that's true.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  Let us try to explain the organisation of the police

10     in the Prizren area.  Would you agree with me that the Prizren SUP was

11     superior to the OUP Suva Reka, the OUP Dragas, and the Opalje station,

12     and that it took care of internal affairs in the areas of those

13     municipalities?

14        A.   Yes, that's correct.

15        Q.   Thank you.  Is it true that the -- the OUP Suva Reka took care of

16     internal affairs in the area of the municipality of Suva Reka and that it

17     also included the police station, the crime-fighting section, and the

18     general affairs section and administrative affairs section?

19        A.   Yes, that's right.

20        Q.   Is it true that the OUP Suva Reka was run by the chief and that

21     the commander was in charge of the police station?

22        A.   Yes, that's true.

23        Q.   Am I right when I say that the commander of the police station in

24     Suva Reka was responsible for his work to the chief of the OUP in

25     Suva Reka and that the chief of the OUP Suva Reka was in turn responsible

Page 413

 1     for his work to the chief of the Prizren SUP?

 2        A.   Yes, I think that was the case.

 3        Q.   Is it true that the same building housed both the Suva Reka OUP

 4     and also the State Security Department section for Prizren, which was in

 5     the same building but in a separate area?

 6        A.   Yes, that's right.

 7        Q.   Is it true that the Suva Reka OUP was part of the Public Security

 8     Department and that it had nothing to do with the State Security

 9     Department of Prizren?

10        A.   Well, I don't know.  I'm not --

11        Q.   Fair enough.  Is it true that the -- that Vitosevic, the chief of

12     the OUP Suva Reka, could not issue any orders to the head of the branch

13     office of the State Security Department in Suva Reka?

14        A.   Yes, that's right.

15        Q.   Am I right when I say that the PJP units, and Cegar's were part

16     of it, were not part of the Suva Reka OUP, did not carry out regular

17     security police work in the Suva Reka area?

18        A.   Well, they did belong -- or, rather, they were assisting the PJP

19     but they were not under the command of the Suva Reka OUP.

20        Q.   You answered a different question, but what I wanted to ask you

21     is whether they patrolled around Suva Reka, whether they kept watch in

22     Suva Reka.  Did they identify and catch criminals in Suva Reka?  Did they

23     do beat work?

24        A.   Well, they were assisting there in Suva Reka.

25        Q.   Could you please answer my question?  Give me a direct answer.

Page 414

 1     Did they do the kind of work that the police did, the police that you

 2     were a member of in Suva Reka?

 3        A.   Yes, they did.

 4        Q.   So you went with them to do patrols, patrol duty --

 5        A.   Yes.

 6        Q.   -- in Suva Reka, to the post office, to the bank?

 7        A.   No.  We went to Dulje and --

 8        Q.   Well, that's -- I didn't ask you about the hard patrols, as they

 9     were known.  I was asking you about what beat patrols, securing the

10     police station, regular police duties.

11        A.   No, no, they were not with us.

12        Q.   Thank you.  Am I right when I say that the leaders of the PJP

13     were completely separate from the leaders of the Suva Reka OUP?

14        A.   Yes, that's correct.

15        Q.   Am I right when I say that the Cegars were only temporarily

16     housed in Suva Reka, and only at times?

17        A.   Yes, that's true.

18        Q.   Thank you.  Is it true that before the 26th of March, 1999, and

19     after the 26th of March, 1999, you never took part in any joint activity

20     with the Cegars or with another PJP unit?

21        A.   Yes, that's correct.

22        Q.   Thank you.  Is it correct that on the 26th of March, 1999, in the

23     morning when you took your duty, that no joint activities were

24     anticipated with Cegars; is that correct?

25        A.   Yes.

Page 415

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Is it correct that on the 26th of March, 1999, as a

 2     member of a patrol, in the morning, you received the task to take food,

 3     water and ammunition to your colleagues, police officers, who were

 4     securing the Prizren-Suva Reka road in the Dzinovce village.

 5        A.   Yes, that's correct.

 6        Q.   Is it true that you were surprised when, on your way back to --

 7     from the village of Dzinovce, you got out of the car and you saw two

 8     trucks parked in front of the police station and police officers in green

 9     camouflage uniform were getting off those trucks?

10        A.   Yes, that's true.

11        Q.   Am I right if I say that you did not know that they would come?

12        A.   Yes, you're right.

13        Q.   Is it true that as you were looking at those police officers who

14     had come in and who were moving down the Rastane road, that a jeep

15     arrived from the direction of Prizren, stopped at the place that you

16     marked on the map or, rather, on the photograph, and a person got out and

17     you said that this was Cegar 1.

18        A.   Yes, that's true.

19        Q.   Is it true that you did not know and that you were surprised to

20     see Cegar 1 come in front of the Suva Reka OUP at that time?

21        A.   Yes, that's true.  We didn't know that.  We didn't even assume

22     that he would.

23        Q.   Thank you.  Is it true that Cegar 1 headed towards you and that

24     the assistants -- the assistant started to salute him, in accordance with

25     the rules?

Page 416

 1        A.   Yes.

 2        Q.   Is it true that Cegar 1 started shouting at the assistant?

 3        A.   Yes.

 4        Q.   Is it true that the assistant was caught by surprise and confused

 5     at this conduct by Cegar 1?

 6        A.   Yes, that's true.

 7        Q.   Is it true that Cegar 1 did not order you to go out and kill

 8     Albanian civilians as you were standing in front of the OUP Suva Reka, in

 9     the street there?

10        A.   Yes, that's true.

11        Q.   Is it true that Cegar 1 did not order you to burn houses

12     belonging to Albanian civilians as you stood there in the street, in

13     front of the Suva Reka OUP?

14        A.   Yes, that's true.

15        Q.   Is it true that Cegar 1 did not order you to evict Albanian

16     civilians from their homes as you stood there in the street, in front of

17     the Suva Reka OUP?

18        A.   Yes, that's true.  He didn't issue any orders to us.

19        Q.   Thank you.  Is it true that at that critical occasion Cegar did

20     not order you to loot Albanian houses and to rob Albanian civilians?

21        A.   Yes, that's true.

22        Q.   Is it true that the assistant was quite confused and that he told

23     you, "Okay, move on"?

24        A.   Yes, precisely.

25        Q.   Is it true that you didn't know what you were supposed to do?

Page 417

 1        A.   Yes.  You are right.

 2        Q.   Is it true that the assistant did not order you to kill Albanian

 3     civilians?

 4        A.   Precisely.

 5             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please look at

 6     Exhibit D001-3214.  Now I would like you to zoom in this area between the

 7     white house and the house that is behind it, to the right.  Yes, yes,

 8     precisely, this area here.  Could you please zoom in a couple of times,

 9     this area between the two houses.  Thank you.

10        Q.   Is it true, sir, that on the 26th of March, as you stood between

11     the Berisha houses, you did not see any tanks, any military vehicles, or

12     any military personnel?

13        A.   Military vehicles and military personnel?

14        Q.   Yes, yes.

15        A.   No, I didn't see any out there.

16        Q.   Does that mean that your answer to my question is yes?

17        A.   Yes.

18        Q.   Is it true that in the course of the event that you described for

19     us, the 26th of March incidents, around the houses that belonged to the

20     Berisha family, there were no Roma or any other civilians?

21        A.   There weren't any.

22        Q.   Thank you.  Is it true that on the critical day and at the

23     critical place you did not see Milorad Nisavic, called "Nisavic" by

24     Albanians, at that place?

25        A.   I didn't see him.

Page 418

 1        Q.   Is it true that Zoran Petkovic, Miki Petkovic's brother, and

 2     Miki Petkovic was with you in the patrol, that he did not belong to the

 3     police?

 4        A.   Yes, that's true.

 5        Q.   Is it true that on the critical occasion Zoran Petkovic was not

 6     with you?

 7        A.   Zoran Petkovic was not with me.  I'm sure about that.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  Now I would like you to mark on this photograph the

 9     location where you stood when the fire started, the gun-fire started, the

10     location where Miki Petkovic stood, where Cukaric stood, where Tanovic

11     stood, and -- well, that's it for now.  So if you could mark the spot

12     where you were with number 1.

13        A.   [Marks]

14        Q.   Number 2, that would be what?

15        A.   Petkovic.

16        Q.   Thank you.

17        A.   Cukaric.  And number 4, that's behind the house.

18        Q.   Thank you.  Could you please mark the spots where the four

19     Albanians were standing with an X, if you can see that place, the place

20     where they were killed.

21        A.   That's behind the white house here.

22        Q.   Okay.  So you can't see that place.  Okay, very well.  Thank you.

23             Could you now mark the path that you took, since now we have this

24     image on our screens, as you went to see where the Albanian civilians

25     were heading?

Page 419

 1        A.   [Marks]

 2        Q.   Thank you.

 3             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone, please.

 4             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would just like -- Your Honours,

 5     I would like to tender this document into evidence, and if I could get an

 6     exhibit number.

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  First we'll receive the original photograph as an

 8     exhibit, Mr. Djurdjic.

 9             THE REGISTRAR:  The coloured photograph with document ID

10     D001-3214, Your Honours, will be given D00009.

11             JUDGE PARKER:  And then the marked photograph?

12             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be D00010, Your Honours.

13             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, now I would like to

14     ask the usher for his assistance.  Could we scroll down -- yes.  Yes,

15     fine, and -- right.  Yes, yes.  Let's have this photograph there.

16        Q.   Witness, you described to us the path that you had taken --

17             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Or, rather, let's try to zoom in

18     here, the place where the house is, across the road.  Could we zoom in on

19     that?  No, no, no, no.  Up, up, up, up, right, right, right.  Yes, yes.

20     Let's try that.  Yes, right.  Thank you.

21        Q.   Could you mark the way you went afterwards?

22        A.   Here, here, and here.

23        Q.   I do apologise.  Did you continue moving or did you stop there?

24        A.   I continued moving until I got to the pizzeria.

25        Q.   Sorry, since I don't know -- well, we see that you stopped here

Page 420

 1     and there are some shops down there; right?  We can see that.

 2        A.   Yes.

 3        Q.   Is that where the pizzeria is?

 4        A.   Not yet.  Not yet.  The pizzeria is further on.

 5        Q.   Further on.  So it cannot be seen?

 6        A.   Well, it continues over here.  Do you want me to go on?

 7             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would kindly ask that this

 8     photograph be admitted into evidence as well, up to this point that was

 9     marked by the witness.

10             JUDGE PARKER:  It's not clear to me, Mr. Djurdjic, why the

11     witness is stopped at this point.  Is it because he stopped there or has

12     he just stopped marking?  Can we clarify that with the witness?

13             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I can, Your Honour, because I

14     don't understand either.

15        Q.   Witness, please, could you mark on this part of the photograph

16     where you went in order to get to the pizzeria.  What route was that?

17        A.   Well, this is it.

18        Q.   Thank you.

19             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Now I think that on this

20     photograph we have -- well, actually, let's try to zoom out, say, once or

21     twice.

22             JUDGE PARKER:  We can't do that, I'm afraid.  We would lose the

23     marking.

24             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Very well.  Then I suggest that we

25     admit into evidence the photograph as marked up to this point.

Page 421

 1             JUDGE PARKER:  Can I clarify with the witness, Mr. Djurdjic?

 2             Can you tell us, where you have stopped marking, is that the

 3     location of the pizzeria or is the pizzeria still further on, off the

 4     photograph?

 5             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The pizzeria cannot be seen on the

 6     photograph, but this is the road leading to the pizzeria, practically to

 7     the very corner.

 8             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

 9             It will be received.

10             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be D00011, Your Honours.

11             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I do apologise, Your Honours.  We

12     zoomed in in order to see the road better and that is why we cannot see

13     the entire road that goes to the pizzeria, and that's why I'm asking --

14     oh, yes, thank you.  This is it.

15        Q.   So now I would like to ask:  You see the white gasoline station

16     here.

17             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] So over there, could we zoom in.

18     No, no, no, not here.  There, right.  Yes, thank you.  Right.  A few

19     times, one, two, three.  No, let's go back.  It's too large now.  No, no,

20     can -- yes, yes, thank you, yes.

21        Q.   Now, Witness, could you -- could you mark the route that you took

22     and can you show us, if you can, where the pizzeria is?

23        A.   From the OSCE house to the pizzeria, you mean?

24        Q.   No, from the point where we stopped - I think that you remember

25     that - and then we can go on, or also since we can see the OSCE house,

Page 422

 1     then you can show us from the OSCE house all the way.

 2        A.   [Marks]

 3        Q.   Now I would like to ask -- well, actually, can the pizzeria be

 4     seen here?

 5        A.   The pizzeria is here.  Here.

 6        Q.   Could you put an X there at that point and could you take the

 7     line all the way to that X?

 8        A.   All right.

 9        Q.   Is it correct that you did not force the Albanian civilians to

10     enter the pizzeria?

11        A.   Yes, that's correct.

12        Q.   Is it correct that when you got to the pizzeria there were no

13     policemen or other persons there when the Albanian civilians entered the

14     pizzeria?

15        A.   That's correct.

16        Q.   Is it correct that the Albanian civilians were locked in the

17     pizzeria once you got there?

18        A.   Yes, that's correct.

19        Q.   Is it correct that in front of the pizzeria there weren't any

20     other policemen or other persons, when you arrived in front of the

21     pizzeria together with the members of the patrol - Tanovic, Cukaric, and

22     Miki Petkovic - and after you had been drinking?

23        A.   Yes, exactly.

24        Q.   Now I would like to ask you to mark the place where you saw two

25     wounded civilians and to mark that with number 1.  How about that?

Page 423

 1        A.   [Marks]

 2        Q.   Thank you.  Could you please mark the place -- oh, no, actually

 3     you've already done that.  The cafe, yes, we've marked that with an X.

 4             Now, let us ask you -- actually, I think you did say that this

 5     was the cafe where you got the drinks.

 6        A.   It's right next to this, the --

 7        Q.   Could you place number 2?  It doesn't really matter on which

 8     side.

 9        A.   That's it.

10        Q.   Thank you.  Now I'd like to ask you to mark the place where you

11     had that drink, if it is outside location number 2.

12        A.   What number should I use to mark it?

13        Q.   Number 3.

14             THE INTERPRETER:  The interpreters cannot hear the witness.  He

15     is not speaking into the microphone.

16             MR. DJURDJIC:

17        Q.   [Interpretation] Thank you.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  Could you repeat what you just said?  The

19     interpreters didn't hear it.

20             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I asked what number I should use to

21     mark this place where we were drinking alcohol.  Is that what you meant?

22             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes.  And you've done that and it's marked as

23     number 3.

24             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

25             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

Page 424

 1             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would kindly ask Your Honours to

 2     admit this into evidence as an exhibit.

 3             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

 4             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be D00012, Your Honours.

 5             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Now I would like to ask to call up

 6     on our screens D001-3114.  I think that I made a mistake.  Actually,

 7     let's try -- I mean, could you zoom in on the white -- again -- right.

 8     3215?  No, sorry.  Yes, 5.  Now, could you zoom in here on the left-hand

 9     side where the road is?  No, no, no, down, down, down here, right.  Yes,

10     down there.  Yes, yes, yes.  Can we see that?  Yes.  A bit more, a bit

11     more.  Yes.  Now we don't see the street.

12             All right.  3215, could we have that one now, please, instead of

13     this image.  D001-3215.  Could you zoom out, please.  The green house

14     here that is parallel to the gasoline station, yes, down there, yes, can

15     we zoom in there.  Could we have that enlarged?  Yes.  One more time.

16     Yes.  Thank you, thank you.  Excellent.

17        Q.   Witness, can you see it better now, I mean that pizzeria?

18        A.   Yes, sort of, in part.  Well --

19        Q.   Could you please now mark the place where the pizzeria is with

20     the number 1.

21        A.   [Marks]

22        Q.   Please could you mark with an X the place where you were standing

23     when the corpses were being put onto the truck?

24        A.   [Marks]

25        Q.   Could you mark the place where the trucks were when the corpses

Page 425

 1     were being put there?

 2        A.   What number?

 3        Q.   Number 2.

 4        A.   [Marks]

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Can you mark with the number 3 the place where

 6     Dr. Boban and Mirko Djordjevic came immediately after this incident?

 7        A.   [Marks]

 8        Q.   Could you tell me whether they walked there or whether they had

 9     some kind of a transportation vehicle?

10        A.   They came by car, but -- but the car was way up here, the parking

11     lot here by the road.

12        Q.   Can you mark that place where they had left their car?

13        A.   Number 5, then?

14        Q.   Let's just clarify one thing.  Is this the place where they

15     parked when only the two of them came for the first time?

16        A.   Yes.

17        Q.   All right.  And the second time when they came, could you mark

18     with the number 6 the place where they parked their car?

19        A.   Well, that I do not remember, where they parked the second time.

20        Q.   Thank you.  Were you with Mr. -- with Dr. Boban Vuksanovic when

21     he went to pick up the young men that he had brought to the shopping

22     centre to load the bodies?

23        A.   No.

24        Q.   How is it that you know what Dr. Boban said to the young men when

25     he asked them to come with him?

Page 426

 1        A.   Well, I don't know.  I didn't go with him.  I was there all the

 2     time by the kiosk.

 3        Q.   Well, you said that they didn't want to come with Dr. Boban.

 4     That's why I'm asking you how you know that.

 5        A.   When they arrived on the spot and when they realised what was

 6     going on, then they voiced their opposition.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  You stated during your direct examination that when

 8     all of this was happening on the 26th of March, that Jashar Berisha was

 9     locked up at the police station.  I would be interested in hearing when

10     and how you found that out.

11        A.   Well, you know how it was.  On that day Jashar was not working at

12     the gasoline station, and we, on orders from Commander Repanovic, went to

13     get him so that he would unlock the gasoline station so that we could get

14     some fuel for official purposes.  However, when the shooting started up

15     there, Jashar Berisha was no longer at the gasoline station.

16        Q.   Witness, please listen to me carefully.  Listen to what it is

17     that I'm asking you.  You gave me an answer that did not really relate to

18     my question.  My question was how and when did you find out that

19     Jashar Berisha was locked up at the police station when all of this was

20     happening?

21        A.   I found out when Todor Jovanovic drove from the direction of the

22     police station.

23        Q.   So may I conclude that you are assuming that he had been brought

24     into custody at the police station when all of this was happening?

25        A.   Yes.

Page 427

 1        Q.   Are you sure that he was not at the police station when all of

 2     this was happening?

 3        A.   I'm not sure, but I know that he came from the direction of the

 4     police.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Witness, my learned friend Mr. Stamp asked you today

 6     about the on-site investigation that was carried out after this incident,

 7     and I see that over here, although he suggested something to you, you

 8     agreed to the date of the 27th of March, 1999.  Are you sure of that

 9     date?

10        A.   Well, I've said -- well, I mean, I've said a hundred times until

11     now, I do not remember the date exactly, but ...

12        Q.   Thank you.  Is it correct that you were securing the

13     investigation team from Prizren in the street of Miladin Popovic by -- on

14     the Rastane road where the OSCE house and Vesel Berisha's house, we know

15     that now, and then all the way to the carpentry store on Rastanski road?

16        A.   Yes, that's right.

17        Q.   Is it correct that during this on-site investigation you and the

18     investigation team were fired at?

19        A.   Yes, that is correct.

20        Q.   Thank you.  Is it correct that there was a doctor with the

21     investigation team who examined the bodies that had been found?

22        A.   I don't remember the doctor.

23        Q.   It wasn't Dr. Boban, it was a doctor from the health centre.  I

24     don't know his name.  Was he with the investigation team maybe?

25        A.   Oh, that was Slobodan Andrejevic.

Page 428

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Is it correct that you were providing security for

 2     the investigation team at the Muslim cemetery as well, where at the

 3     individual graves the bodies were buried, the bodies that had been found?

 4        A.   Yes, all the time while that was being done.

 5        Q.   Thank you.

 6             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we now put on the screens,

 7     if possible, D -- my colleague Marie O'Leary reminded me that I should

 8     first tender this into evidence, and I would like to thank her for

 9     reminding me.

10             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.  It will be received.

11             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

12             JUDGE PARKER:  First we'll receive the original.

13             THE REGISTRAR:  The coloured photograph with document ID

14     D001-3215, Your Honours, will be D00013.

15             JUDGE PARKER:  And then the marked copy.

16             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be assigned D00014, Your Honours.

17             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

18             Could we call up on the screens 001-3215.

19             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honour, we assigned D001-3215 with

20     Exhibit D00013.

21             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

22        Q.   Witness, on this photograph can you see the carpentry shop?

23        A.   No, I can't see it.

24        Q.   You can't see it here?

25             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we then please -- could I

Page 429

 1     then please have D13.  Okay, let's not waste time.  It is obvious that we

 2     can't see the carpentry shop and the Muslim cemetery on those

 3     photographs.  Thank you.

 4             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] You can see the cemetery and the --

 5     on the previous photograph, so I don't know what exactly you had in mind.

 6             JUDGE PARKER:  It may be Exhibit D10 or D9.  Perhaps D9 would be

 7     better.

 8             MR. DJURDJIC:  Your Honours, I think 9 or 10.

 9             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, it's a bit further up there,

10     in the direction of Rastane.

11             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have D8.

12        Q.   Please don't make any markings, but could you please tell us, can

13     you see the carpentry shop and the Muslim cemetery here on this

14     photograph?

15        A.   You can see the Muslim cemetery and I can't really recall about

16     the carpentry shop.  I know that there was a mechanic, some sort of a

17     garage, but I really can't remember.

18             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have this

19     photograph, without the markings made by the witness.  I think that the

20     clear photograph was number 7.

21             MR. STAMP:  I think ...

22                           [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

23             MR. STAMP:  I think -- I suspect that that might be in evidence

24     before, P269.

25             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

Page 430

 1        Q.   Now, this is an unmarked photograph.  Could you please mark here,

 2     you said that you recognised the place where the Muslim cemetery is.

 3        A.   Yes.

 4        Q.   Could you please mark it, then.

 5        A.   What number?

 6        Q.   Well, number 1.  We might use it as well.

 7        A.   [Marks]

 8        Q.   Now I would like to ask you, is the carpentry shop a bit further

 9     down the Rastane road, so further down, or perhaps in front, and then you

10     can't orient yourself?

11        A.   Well, I really cannot recall the carpentry shop.

12        Q.   Thank you very much, Witness.

13             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Now I would like to tender this

14     into evidence.

15             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

16             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I believe it's time

17     for our break now.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.  We will resume at a quarter past 4.00.

19                           --- Recess taken at 3.46 p.m.

20                           --- On resuming at 4.18 p.m.

21             JUDGE PARKER:  If the witness could be brought in.  And while

22     that is happening, the court officer might give us the exhibit number of

23     that last marked exhibit, please.

24             THE REGISTRAR:  Thank you, Your Honours.  That will be D00015,

25     Your Honours.

Page 431

 1             JUDGE PARKER:  Closed session.

 2                           [Closed session]

 3   (redacted)

 4   (redacted)

 5   (redacted)

 6                           [Open session]

 7             THE REGISTRAR:  We're in open session, Your Honours.

 8             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic.

 9             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

10        Q.   Witness, will you agree with me if I say that in 1998, in

11     Suva Reka, there were several terrorist attacks carried out in the town,

12     including the assassination attempt on Milan Nisavic who worked in the

13     Suva Reka branch office of the State Security Department.  He was

14     seriously wounded.  And a shop assistant working at the stall, he was an

15     ethnic Albanian, he was killed; is that correct?

16             MR. STAMP:  Before we continue, that is a very compound question.

17     It's a question that involves so many composite parts that the answer

18     might be misleading.  If the witness accepts that he's correct, it could

19     be misleading in respect of some components.

20             JUDGE PARKER:  My note is the witness appears to have -- I agree

21     with you that it was a number of questions rolled into one.  I assume

22     Mr. Djurdjic understood that there would be no dispute about that issue,

23     but do you want to break it up?  If not, it will be a matter Mr. Stamp

24     would have to follow up.  It might be better for you if you broke up the

25     question now and we were clear about what the witness thinks about each

Page 432

 1     part of it.

 2             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.  I

 3     understand.  I just wanted to make things go faster.  I didn't want to

 4     get a single answer to a compound question.

 5        Q.   So the first question is -- to cut the question into smaller

 6     parts.  If I say in 1998, in Suva Reka, in the town itself and in the

 7     municipality, there were several terrorist attacks, would I be right?

 8        A.   Yes.

 9        Q.   Is it true that this is why you, as a reservist, was engaged to

10     work in the police station in Suva Reka?

11        A.   Yes.

12        Q.   Was that the reason why other police units from Serbia were

13     dispatched to Kosovo and Metohija?

14        A.   Yes, that's correct.

15        Q.   Is it true that this is why PJP units were also dispatched there,

16     including the Cegar unit, as you call it?

17        A.   Yes, that's correct.  That's how it was.

18        Q.   Is it correct that Milorad Nisavic, an employee of the

19     State Security Department, the Prizren section, the Suva Reka branch

20     office, an assassination attempt was carried out in the -- in downtown

21     Suva Reka, he was seriously injured and an ethnic Albanian who worked

22     there at the stall was killed?

23        A.   Yes, that's correct.

24        Q.   Am I right when I say that from the summer of 1998 until the

25     13th of June, 1999, the security situation was so complex and difficult

Page 433

 1     that moving around the town of Suva Reka was very risky because of KLA

 2     attacks and sniper attacks, and that only those who really had urgent

 3     business were moving around?

 4        A.   Yes, that's correct.

 5        Q.   Is it correct that the police station was fired on on several

 6     occasions?  By that I mean the OUP in Suva Reka.

 7        A.   Yes, there were such occasions.

 8        Q.   Is it true that you had to secure the Suva Reka OUP 24 hours a

 9     day and that there had to be a watch post on the church spire if an

10     attack occurred on the Suva Reka OUP?

11        A.   Yes, that's correct.

12        Q.   Is it correct that in 1998, until the beginning of the NATO

13     aggression, the KLA abducted Albanians loyal to the Republic of Serbia on

14     several occasions and abducted persons of other ethnic -- from other

15     ethnic communities, that they stopped vehicles, mistreated the

16     passengers, blocked traffic on main roads, such as the Pristina-Prizren,

17     Pristina-Pec, and Pristina-Djakovica-Prizren roads?

18        A.   Yes, that is entirely true.

19        Q.   Was it extremely dangerous to move around the municipality of

20     Suva Reka, in particular towards the villages of Budakovo, Belince,

21     Rastane, Dzinovce and other villages?

22        A.   Well, it wasn't safe.

23        Q.   Was this the reason why the police used armoured vehicles when

24     patrolling, I mean heavy armoured vehicles?

25        A.   Yes, they did use them.

Page 434

 1        Q.   Would you agree with me that the police check-points on the roads

 2     existed in order to prevent the movement of terrorists, the smuggling of

 3     weapons, and to ensure that the traffic could move on smoothly along

 4     those roads?

 5        A.   Yes, precisely.  This was the only way to prevent all of those

 6     things, the murders and all the other things that were going on.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  Would you agree with me that the treatment of all

 8     persons at police check-points, regardless of their ethnic background,

 9     was the same, that all persons were treated in the same way?

10        A.   Yes.

11        Q.   Thank you.

12             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have on our

13     screens Exhibit 00003.  That's Exhibit D3, without the zeros.  I think it

14     was admitted on Friday.  It should be a map, a map of Kosovo and

15     Metohija.

16             While we're waiting for the map, we can deal with the textual

17     part.  Could we please zoom in to have a better view of the map?  Well,

18     we can see the roadmap of Kosovo and Metohija.  We can see that roads are

19     marked in red.  These are the main roads in Kosovo and Metohija.

20        Q.   Now, Witness, my colleague Mr. Stamp asked you on Friday and you

21     said that from Prizren to Suva Reka it's about 20 kilometres.

22        A.   Eighteen to 20 kilometres.

23        Q.   Now, from Suva Reka to Pristina, would you agree with me that

24     it's about 60 kilometres?

25        A.   Fifty-seven.

Page 435

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Would you be so kind as to mark the road from

 2     Suva Reka to Pristina, through Dulje, of course.

 3        A.   [Marks]

 4        Q.   Thank you.  Would you agree with me that in the summer of 1998

 5     the traffic through Dulje was cut off and that you couldn't take this

 6     road to get to Pristina?

 7        A.   Yes, precisely.

 8        Q.   Would you agree with me that when this road was cut off, that

 9     from Suva Reka you had to go south towards Prizren and then through

10     Sredacka Zupa to Strpce, and then there's a junction with the

11     Skopje-Pristina road near Nerodimlje and then you pass by Urosevac and go

12     to Pristina.

13        A.   Yes, that's how it was.

14        Q.   Now I would like you to mark Suva Reka and Pristina with two Xs.

15        A.   [Marks]

16        Q.   And now I would like you to mark with a dotted line the

17     alternative road to Pristina, the one -- the round-about road that was

18     used when the other road was cut off.

19             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter's note:  We cannot hear the witness

20     when he is not speaking into the microphone.

21             JUDGE PARKER:  I think he's talking to himself as he tries to

22     find the roadway.

23             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, it's not very visible here.

24             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

25        Q.   Witness, could you now just continue on towards Pristina from

Page 436

 1     that point that you reached here.

 2        A.   I think that's it.

 3        Q.   Could you please go all the way up to Pristina, to this X that

 4     you marked here.

 5        A.   [Marks]

 6        Q.   Thank you.

 7             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Now I would like to tender this

 8     into evidence, and could we please get an exhibit number.

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

10             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be D00016, Your Honours.

11             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

12        Q.   Witness, sir, do you know that on the 17th or the 18th of July,

13     1998, the KLA occupied Orahovac and that in the course of the pull-out,

14     60 Serbs were taken away and none returned.

15        A.   I heard about it but I was not there in Orahovac.

16        Q.   Thank you.  And do you recall that the KLA, on the eve of the

17     NATO aggression, actually killed somebody in Suva Reka and that in that

18     terrorist attack Bogdan Lazic was killed in a shop where you worked?

19        A.   Yes, that is true.

20        Q.   Do you recall that this was on the 22nd of March, 1999?

21        A.   I don't recall the date, but I remember the day when it happened.

22        Q.   Thank you.

23             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] Could we please look at

24     D001-0685, that's the B/C/S version; and D001-0706, that's the English

25     version.  Could we please look at page 1 of this document.

Page 437

 1        Q.   Witness, could you please tell us what's written in the black

 2     letters right in the middle?

 3        A.   "Criminal Report."

 4        Q.   Thank you.  Can you see it well?

 5        A.   Well, not really from close up.

 6        Q.   Perhaps you could read the first and the second paragraphs in the

 7     criminal report here.

 8        A.   Well, it's really faint.  I can't really see it.  Half of the

 9     letters are missing and I really don't know.

10             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I'm short-sighted.

11     Could I perhaps read this out and then ask the witness if that is

12     correct, because apparently the witness will not be able to read this

13     text.

14             JUDGE PARKER:  It is now being shown more clearly.  I don't know

15     whether the witness is able to follow this.  It doesn't look encouraging.

16     Please read, Mr. Djurdjic.

17             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

18        Q.   Witness, I will try and read it.

19             "On the 20th of March, 1999, at around 1430 hours in Suva Reka,

20     in the Cara Dusana Street, number 46," to be more specific in the shop

21     whose name I will not read out, you have it in the translation, "1, the

22     Siptar terrorist carried out a terrorist act, a criminal offence from the

23     Article 125 of the Penal Code of the FRY.  The crime was committed in the

24     following manner:  The Siptar terrorist entered the shop and at close

25     range they fired a pistol, make unknown, firing several rounds at the

Page 438

 1     owner of the shop, Mate Lazic."

 2             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter's note:  Could the counsel please

 3     slow down when reading because the interpreters do not -- cannot read the

 4     text either.

 5             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] -- which is the place of his

 6     permanent residence, "literate, married, father of two, salesperson by

 7     occupation, of Serbian ethnic background, citizen of the FRY, was in

 8     possession of the ID card number 77018, personal ID number

 9     0101-963-954-945, issued by the Suva Reka OUP.  He was alone in the shop.

10     He was seated at his desk in the office."

11        Q.   The witness could now tell us if I read this correctly.  I read

12     the first and the second paragraphs.

13        A.   Yes.  Yes, that's correct.

14        Q.   Is what I read correct?

15        A.   Yes.

16             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please tender this

17     document into evidence and get an exhibit number?

18             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

19                           [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

20             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received under seal.

21             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone, please.

22             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I apologise.  Could we please have

23     also the translation into English admitted into evidence?  I apologise, I

24     just wanted to look at page -- at pages 5, 6, and 7 of this document.  My

25     apologies.  It is due to my inexperience.  Could we please first look at

Page 439

 1     page 5.  No, no.  That is the statement.  We need the on-site

 2     investigation record, that's pages 5, 6, and 7.  And I don't know ...

 3             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter's note:  The counsel is kindly

 4     asked not to knock the microphone on the lectern.

 5             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.  No, it's not necessary

 6     to go on.  We have the confirmation from the witness.

 7             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be assigned D00017, under seal,

 8     Your Honours.

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.  And that will be both the English and

10     the B/C/S version.

11             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I apologise to the court officers.

12     It was my mistake.  I got confused and I mixed up some of my documents in

13     my notes.  I do apologise.

14             Could we please have Defence Exhibit D0001-0785.

15        Q.   While we're waiting for the document to come up, let me ask you

16     this:  Do you remember and is it correct that at Dulje, on the

17     8th of January, 1999, there was an attack on the patrol from -- of the

18     Suva Reka OUP.  They were escorting the OSCE and three police officers

19     were killed, including Milos Stevanovic, a colleague of yours from

20     Suva Reka, and four police officers were seriously wounded, including one

21     of your colleagues from Suva Reka, Nebojsa Andrejevic?

22        A.   Yes, I remember.

23             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we now look at the exhibit.

24     Now could we look at the next document, 785.

25        Q.   Witness, will you agree with me that in the middle of this

Page 440

 1     document it says "Criminal Report"?

 2        A.   Yes.

 3        Q.   Will you agree with me that it was drafted on the 11th --

 4             MR. STAMP:  Before we proceed ...

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Stamp?

 6             MR. STAMP:  Could I ask if there is a translation for this into

 7     one of the languages of the Tribunal; and if there is not, I would object

 8     to its use at this stage.

 9             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] My learned colleague, this

10     document has not been translated yet.  It was submitted for translation

11     but it has yet to be translated because of the heavy workload.  I would

12     like it to be used here, to be marked here, and once it is translated

13     then I will use it as an exhibit, if the Trial Chamber agrees.

14             JUDGE PARKER:  It can be marked for identification, Mr. Djurdjic,

15     but it will be a question whether it is possible for Mr. Stamp to

16     re-examine at this stage if he has no translation.  Having identified

17     that potential problem, we will mark this document, and if Mr. Stamp has

18     difficulty when it comes to re-examination, he can mention that.

19             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, to make things

20     simpler, what I said and what the witness confirmed should be in

21     paragraphs 1 and 2 of the criminal report, and I merely wanted to show

22     him the on-site investigation record and perhaps one more page.  But if

23     you think that this will make it more complicated for my friend Mr. Stamp

24     to conduct his redirect, I don't have to even have this document marked

25     for identification, if Mr. Stamp believes that it will make his redirect

Page 441

 1     more difficult.

 2             MR. STAMP:  The problem really is that before we even reach the

 3     redirect stage, it's impossible to follow what he's doing, if he selects

 4     two paragraphs and reads it or has the witness read it, because I want to

 5     see the document in context.  And I think that is, to some degree --

 6     well, I wouldn't say "flouting," but the order was that we should be

 7     provided the documents 48 hours before, and I think that means that we

 8     should be provided the documents in a language of the Tribunal.  So

 9     efforts have to be made by counsel to have documents which they propose

10     to use in cross-examination translated before the cross-examination.  And

11     if they are long documents, then the relevant parts could be translated

12     and I'm prepared to discuss with counsel some agreement in respect to

13     long documents.  I don't expect that they will be translated.  But

14     generally speaking, we can't follow properly the examination of the

15     witness without having translations.

16             JUDGE PARKER:  This, gentlemen, is one of the little problems

17     that arise as we're getting used to the procedure to be followed in the

18     trial.

19             As I see it, Mr. Djurdjic, the witness has agreed that he knows

20     of this event and of the death and the wounding of a number of police

21     officers, as you have indicated.  If that matter is not being challenged

22     by Mr. Stamp, you really don't need this written criminal report to

23     confirm that.  It's accepted.  If Mr. Stamp, when he comes to re-examine,

24     is going to challenge what you've put to the witness, well, then, it may

25     be necessary to adjourn this question until the document can be

Page 442

 1     translated, if the document is going to help us resolve it.  But I

 2     suspect at the moment that if you don't go further with this document,

 3     you have the witness's acceptance that this event occurred and we may not

 4     hear anything more about it.

 5             For the future, as you will appreciate, and it's clear that you

 6     do, the need for a translation in a language that can be followed both by

 7     the Chamber and by Mr. Stamp, or whoever is dealing with the matter for

 8     the Prosecution, is important, just as it will be important that there

 9     always be a B/C/S document, a copy of any English-language document which

10     Mr. Stamp wishes to tender, so that you can follow it and you can decide

11     whether the matter needs to be pursued.

12             Can I take it, then, Mr. Djurdjic, that you do not press the

13     tender of this document at this stage?

14             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I withdraw my request to mark this

15     document for identification.  Thank you.  But I do have this big problem.

16     The documents are long, and to submit them to the translation service, I

17     think it would take a long time for them to be translated and it would

18     all be in vain.  That is why I wanted to get the gist of the document and

19     then the service would be able to translate the rest in due time.

20             This document contains 40 pages, plus the photographs, and I

21     think that there's no court in the world that would be able to have such

22     huge documents translated on time.  I will strive to use only documents

23     that have already been translated into all the relevant languages.

24        Q.   Now, sir --

25             JUDGE PARKER:  If it accords with the witness's recollection of

Page 443

 1     the event, as you've heard from this witness about this event.  If you

 2     can reach the happy stage where you have a translated document, you, of

 3     course, may use it.  Thank you.

 4             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.  I have learned

 5     something now.  When the witness confirms something, then we don't need

 6     to resort to a document.

 7        Q.   Witness, we mentioned Dr. Boban Vuksanovic here and

 8     Mirko Djordjevic.  Do you remember that the two of them lost their lives

 9     in a terrorist attack on the 17th of April, 1999, by the village of

10     Sopina, on a road there?  They were killed by the KLA.

11        A.   Yes, I remember that.

12        Q.   Witness, sir, your superiors at the OUP, in the police station,

13     did they take the measures prescribed by law against the policemen who

14     committed crimes?  And are you aware of that?

15        A.   Yes, I am aware of that.

16        Q.   Now I'm going to try to jog your memory.  Do you know that

17     against one of your colleagues, Andjelko Popovic, a policeman from the

18     OUP of Suva Reka, a criminal report was filed due to aggravated theft

19     against an Albanian person, and that was in March 1999?

20        A.   Yes, I remember that.

21        Q.   Do you remember that your colleague was detained because of this

22     suspicion that he had committed a criminal offence?

23        A.   Yes, I remember that.

24        Q.   Thank you.  Do you remember that as for the policeman

25     Ivica Novkovic from your OUP, Suva Reka, a criminal report was filed

Page 444

 1     against him, again for aggravated theft, and the victim was again a

 2     member of the Albanian ethnic group, also in March 1999?

 3        A.   Yes, that's correct.

 4        Q.   Do you know that he was also detained because of this suspicion

 5     that he had committed a criminal offence?

 6        A.   Yes, that's right.

 7             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we now call up Exhibit

 8     D001-0677, that's the B/C/S version; and D001-0697, that's the English

 9     version.

10        Q.   Witness, sir, can you confirm that this is a criminal report

11     against Andjelko Popovic?

12        A.   Andjelko Popovic, yes.

13             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we see page 7 of this

14     document.

15        Q.   Is this a report on the detention of Andjelko Popovic?

16        A.   Yes.

17        Q.   Thank you.

18             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could this exhibit be admitted

19     into evidence, please.

20             JUDGE PARKER:  We're waiting for the English translation.  Is

21     there one, Mr. Djurdjic?  Oh, it has now come up.

22             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] On the left-hand side it seems to

23     me that we do see the translation, and in Serbian I'm reading what it is.

24     It is the "Report on the Detention of ..." et cetera.

25             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.  It has now come up.  The document will

Page 445

 1     be received.

 2             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be D00018, Your Honours.

 3             JUDGE PARKER:  The two documents, as I look at it, do not appear

 4     to be the same.

 5             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, one document

 6     pertains to the suspect Andjelko Popovic, and this other document that

 7     I'm going to refer to now has to do with Ivica Novkovic.  This is

 8     Andjelko Popovic, you can see it here on the left-hand side, "Andjelko

 9     Popovic," and on the right, "Andjelko Popovic," except that one is

10     Cyrillic and the other is the Latin script.  And these are the two

11     different scripts that exist in the Serbian language, but it's one and

12     the same person.

13             JUDGE PARKER:  The document that has now come onto the screen

14     does appear to be the English translation of the B/C/S document.  Is that

15     correct?

16             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I think so, yes.

17             JUDGE PARKER:  These --

18             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] "Report on Arrest and Taking into

19     Custody ..."

20             JUDGE PARKER:  These, then, are the two documents that will be

21     received as the exhibit.  That's Exhibit D18.  Thank you.

22             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Now I would like to ask for

23     document D001-0670, B/C/S, that's the B/C/S version; and D001-0929,

24     that's the English version.

25        Q.   This is the first page of a criminal report.  Am I right, sir?

Page 446

 1        A.   Ivica Novkovic, yes.

 2             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we have a look at page 2 now,

 3     please.

 4             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

 5             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] It hasn't been translated.  Let's

 6     look at page 6 now of this document.

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  Is page 6 a page that has been translated?  Yes,

 8     thank you.

 9             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] It seems that they found the

10     translation of the second page as well.  That's the way it seems.  Of the

11     criminal report, that is.  Can we have a look at page 6 now?  That should

12     also be an order -- an arrest warrant and a warrant to have a person

13     taken into custody.

14             [In English] Yes.  Okay.  This is the translation.

15        Q.   [Interpretation] Witness, is this a report on the arrest and

16     taking into custody of Ivica Novkovic?

17        A.   Yes.

18        Q.   Thank you.

19             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could this document please be

20     admitted into evidence and be assigned a number.

21             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

22                           [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

23             JUDGE PARKER:  I am told, Mr. Djurdjic, that this is in fact an

24     extremely large document.  We have seen pages 1, 2, and 6.  Are you

25     suggesting that the whole document be received?

Page 447

 1             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I thought that it was

 2     sufficient -- or, rather, that the essence of this document was that it's

 3     a criminal report and that he was arrested and detained.  There are also

 4     certificates there on the taking away of items from him, but I think that

 5     for the purpose of these proceedings it is relevant that he was arrested

 6     and that proceedings were instituted against him.  Of course, I don't

 7     mind having all parts of the document admitted into evidence, especially

 8     if it's all been translated.  So if it's all been translated, I do tender

 9     the entire document, yes.

10             JUDGE PARKER:  Pages 1, 2, and 6 will be received as Exhibit D19,

11     Mr. Djurdjic.

12             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

13        Q.   Witness, now I'd like to put a few questions to you in relation

14     to what you said today when you were answering the questions put to you

15     by Mr. Stamp during the direct examination.

16             You said that several times you saw Cegar 1 before the

17     26th of March, in Suva Reka.  Can you recall when it was that you last

18     saw him in Suva Reka before the 26th of March?

19        A.   Well, perhaps three days before that.

20        Q.   And before those three days before that?

21        A.   Well, he came, say, every other day, every other day or every

22     third day.

23        Q.   Will you agree with me that Cegar 1 was stationed in Prizren

24     until the 24th of March, in the evening?

25        A.   I don't know exactly where it was that he was stationed, but I

Page 448

 1     know that from time to time he came to the police station in Suva Reka.

 2        Q.   Thank you.  Can you tell me whether you were present when he

 3     spoke to someone at the OUP of Suva Reka?

 4        A.   No.

 5        Q.   You just saw him enter the station and go somewhere upstairs;

 6     right?

 7        A.   Exactly.

 8        Q.   You didn't know whether he went to the commander of the station

 9     or whether he went to the chief of the OUP or a third person.

10        A.   Yes, that's right.

11        Q.   You don't know what they discussed; is that right?

12        A.   That's right.

13        Q.   Thank you.  I would now be interested in the following:  You

14     stated that you knew that Cegar 1 remained at the helm of this unit that

15     he led up until the end of the war.  How come you know that?

16        A.   Well, I remember when we were withdrawing from Kosovo, he was

17     with his unit at the head of the column.

18        Q.   Yes, but you don't know what position he held then.

19        A.   I don't know.

20        Q.   Thank you.  You also stated in response to the Prosecutor's

21     question that Tanovic also remained at the OUP of Suva Reka until the end

22     of the war.

23        A.   Tanovic got killed before the war ended.

24        Q.   Thank you.  You said that Cukaric remained in the OUP of

25     Suva Reka until the end of the war.

Page 449

 1        A.   Yes.

 2        Q.   Do you remember that Cukaric was returned from the OUP of

 3     Suva Reka a month after this incident?

 4        A.   I don't know.  I really don't remember.

 5        Q.   Will you agree with me that in the log-book of the police duty

 6     service and the police station of Suva Reka, this incident of the

 7     26th of March, 1999, was not recorded?

 8        A.   Possibly.  I really don't know.

 9        Q.   Will you agree with me that the SUP of Prizren, on the

10     30th of March, 1999, was informed and that they sent an investigation

11     team to the street of Miladin Popovic in Suva Reka to investigate the

12     scene where you were providing security on that occasion?

13        A.   Yes, I remember when the on-site investigation team arrived.

14        Q.   Thank you, Witness.

15             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I have no further questions,

16     Your Honour.

17             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you very much, Mr. Djurdjic.

18             Mr. Stamp, is there re-examination?

19             MR. STAMP:  Yes, Your Honour, a couple of questions.

20                           Re-examination by Mr. Stamp:

21        Q.   Where is Miladin Popovic Street in Suva Reka?  In relation -- in

22     relation to the pizzeria, where is Miladin Popovic Street in Suva Reka?

23        A.   I really don't remember that street, and I've forgotten quite a

24     few things, not only the street.

25        Q.   Well, you said that there was an investigation team that, on the

Page 450

 1     30th of March -- or I shouldn't say "you said."  You accepted something

 2     that was put to you by counsel, that on the 30th of March, the SUP of

 3     Prizren was informed about the events of the 26th and they sent an

 4     investigation team to Miladin Popovic in Suva Reka.  What do you mean

 5     when you say that?

 6        A.   Well, what I meant was -- well, the team that came for this

 7     on-site investigation, they came to this cemetery where these corpses

 8     were buried, I mean -- well, that was my understanding.

 9        Q.   This team that did the investigation, did they interview you and

10     take a statement from you?

11        A.   No, they didn't take any statement from me.  There was no need

12     for that.

13        Q.   Well, whether there was a need for that is something we'll have

14     to assess ourselves.  Do you know if they interviewed Djordjevic or --

15     sorry.

16             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic.

17             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, the last question,

18     when I mentioned this street that Mr. Stamp is dealing with now, I said

19     that he provided security there for the on-site investigation team of

20     Prizren, so he was on the security detail.  We discussed that earlier on

21     during the cross-examination.  I discussed it with him.  So I think that

22     this kind of question put by Mr. Stamp is not right because he claims

23     that the witness, who was providing security for the team, that he was

24     supposed to talk to them rather than just provide security.

25             MR. STAMP:  I made no such claims.

Page 451

 1             JUDGE PARKER:  The only question that I see that's on this point

 2     was simply, "Did they," being the investigation team, "interview you and

 3     take a statement from you?"  That says nothing about whether they should

 4     have or not, and this witness said, "No, they didn't take a statement

 5     from me."  I don't see anything harmful in that.

 6             Carry on, please, Mr. Stamp.

 7             MR. STAMP:  Thank you.

 8        Q.   Do you know if they interviewed Tanovic or Cukaric or Mitrovic,

 9     that is, Cegar 1, and take statements from them?

10        A.   I don't know.  I don't know whether they took statements from

11     them.  I really don't remember.  Cegar 1 was not there on that day, and

12     Petkovic and Cukaric, they were there, but I don't know whether

13     statements were taken from them.

14        Q.   The people who were buried at the Muslim cemetery, if you could

15     turn your mind to those, could you tell me how many persons were buried

16     there, or approximately how many?

17        A.   Well, I could not give you the exact number, but say 15.

18     Around 15, around 20.  I'm not sure.

19        Q.   And who are these people?  Where did these corpses come from?

20        A.   Well, these people -- well, the street, I mean these houses that

21     were on the road leading to Rastane, I mean they were from those houses.

22        Q.   Were these the civilian Albanians that you spoke about earlier

23     today?

24        A.   Yes, yes, civilians.

25             JUDGE PARKER:  I find that a very confusing question because so

Page 452

 1     much was spoken about earlier today over two days of activity.  I think

 2     you might need to be more specific, Mr. Stamp.

 3             MR. STAMP:  Yes.

 4        Q.   Earlier I had asked you about persons who were killed by the

 5     police, and you -- and I -- and these persons were killed on the -- let

 6     me withdraw that.  Let me get right to the point.

 7             You had told me earlier that there were some investigations and

 8     photographs were taken of persons who were killed on the road to Rastane,

 9     or Rastane, the day after the pizzeria incident, and I asked you what

10     killed these persons and you said "Police."  And I asked also if they

11     were civilian Kosovo Albanians.  Do you remember that?

12        A.   Yes.

13        Q.   Now, what I want to ask you on that score finally:  Was anybody

14     from the pizzeria, as far as you know, buried at the Muslim cemetery?

15        A.   As far as I can remember, no one.

16        Q.   Do you know what became of those corpses from the pizzeria after

17     they were taken away in the two trucks heading toward Prizren?

18        A.   I just know that they went, well, to Prizren.  I don't know

19     where -- where they were taken exactly.

20        Q.   Thank you.  You said that Todorovic -- sorry, Jovanovic,

21     Todor Jovanovic drove up with Jashar Berisha and they came from the

22     direction of the police station.  What type of car did they drive up in?

23     Was it an official car or a private car?

24        A.   Official police vehicle.

25        Q.   Todor Jovanovic was supposed to have been involved in conducting

Page 453

 1     these investigations.  Did he take these photographs at the pizzeria

 2     before or after he brought Jashar Berisha there?

 3             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.

 4             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I do apologise, Your Honours, but

 5     I think that the witness did not say that on the 26th of March,

 6     Todor Jovanovic photographed anything.  I think that what he said was

 7     that subsequently at that on-site investigation that we discussed, he was

 8     there then with the on-site investigation team.  I may be wrong, but I

 9     don't think I am.

10             JUDGE PARKER:  I have a different recollection from you,

11     Mr. Djurdjic, but I think the matter should be explored more by Mr. Stamp

12     to clarify it.

13             MR. STAMP:  All right.

14        Q.   When was the first time you saw Todor Jovanovic taking

15     photographs in respect to the incidents you've described in your

16     testimony, the 26th or the next day?

17        A.   Well, it was on that day when it ended and the following day, on

18     the road to Rastane.

19        Q.   And when you say "on that day when it ended," you mean this was

20     at the pizzeria?

21        A.   Yes.

22        Q.   Now, he brought Jashar there, Jashar Berisha on to Korisa, and he

23     was present there when Cukaric shot Jashar in his back.  Now, all I want

24     to know is did he take these photographs as part of this supposed

25     investigation before or after Jashar was shot?

Page 454

 1        A.   I cannot remember now exactly.

 2        Q.   Very well.  You said at some point the leaders of the PJP were

 3     completely separate from the leaders of the Suva Reka OUP.  What do you

 4     mean when you say that or you said that?

 5        A.   Well, they were outside the town of Suva Reka, for the most part.

 6     They were in the surrounding villages.  They were not in Suva Reka very

 7     much.  They were in the surrounding villages more than they were in the

 8     town of Suva Reka.

 9        Q.   That's the PJPs?

10        A.   Yes.  Yes, that's what I meant, the PJP.

11        Q.   Was the Cegar unit a PJP unit?

12        A.   Yes, yes.

13             MR. STAMP:  Thank you very much, Your Honours.  I have nothing

14     further in re-examination.

15             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you, Mr. Stamp.

16                           [Trial Chamber confers]

17             JUDGE PARKER:  You'll be pleased to know that that concludes the

18     questions for you.  The Chamber would thank you for your attendance here

19     and the assistance you've been able to give, and you will now be able to

20     leave and go back to your ordinary affairs.  So thank you very much.

21     Now, before you leave that seat, we will make the usual arrangements for

22     you to do so.

23             Is the next witness one that is subject to protections or not?

24             MR. STAMP:  No, Your Honour.

25             JUDGE PARKER:  In that case, what the Chamber will do is to rise

Page 455

 1     now, leaving the court in closed session so that the witness can leave.

 2     We will resume at five minutes to 6.00 and commence hearing the next

 3     witness.

 4                           --- Recess taken at 5.24 p.m.

 5                           --- On resuming at 5.58 p.m.

 6             MR. STAMP:  If it please Your Honours.

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Stamp.

 8             MR. STAMP:  Thank you very much, Your Honour.  The next witness

 9     is Shyhrete Berisha, and Ms. Gopalan will lead her evidence in chief on

10     behalf of the Prosecution.

11             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you very much.

12             MS. GOPALAN:  Your Honours, before the witness enters the

13     courtroom, I would like to address Your Honours in private session.

14             JUDGE PARKER:  Private.

15             MS. GOPALAN:  Your Honours, Madam ...

16                           [Private session]

17   (redacted)

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

21   (redacted)

22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

Page 456

 1   (redacted)

 2   (redacted)

 3                           [Open session]

 4             THE REGISTRAR:  We're in public session, Your Honours

 5                           [The witness entered court]

 6             JUDGE PARKER:  Good evening.  Would you please read aloud the

 7     affirmation which is on the card now placed in front of you.

 8             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

 9     speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

10                           WITNESS:  SHYHRETE BERISHA

11                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

12             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you very much.  Please sit down.

13             We understand that Ms. Gopalan has some questions for you and we

14     would ask her to continue now.

15                           Examination by Ms. Gopalan:

16        Q.   Madam Berisha, just to let you know that if you need to stop at

17     any time during your testimony, Your Honours have kindly provided leave

18     for you to do so.  With that, let me begin with my questions.

19             MS. GOPALAN:  For the Court's attention, this witness's testimony

20     is relevant to paragraphs 72(D), 75(D), 77(A) and (B) and schedule D of

21     the indictment.

22        Q.   Madam Berisha, before we begin may I request you to put away the

23     statement that you have before you.  Thank you very much.  Please could

24     you state your full name for the Court.

25        A.   My name is Shyhrete Berisha.

Page 457

 1        Q.   How old are you, Madam Berisha?

 2        A.   I am 47 years old.

 3        Q.   Where were you born?

 4        A.   I was born in Mushtisht village, Suhareke municipality.

 5        Q.   Madam Berisha, what languages do you speak?

 6        A.   I speak my mother tongue, Albanian, and Serbian.

 7        Q.   Madam Berisha, what is your ethnicity?

 8        A.   Albanian.

 9             MS. GOPALAN:  I'd like to call up 65 ter number 0117, please, and

10     if we could scroll to page 8.  I see that the exhibit is up on e-court.

11     If we could focus on the top half of the page.

12        Q.   Madam Berisha, do you recognise the house on your screen?

13        A.   Yes, I do.  This is the house I lived in together with my husband

14     and my four children, on the left-hand side, whereas on the right-hand

15     side my husband's nephew, Faton, lived with his mother, his sister, his

16     wife and his two children, small children.

17             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic.

18             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.  I would

19     kindly ask the Prosecutor to let us know when this photograph was taken,

20     what time it reflects, whether she knows it at all.

21             JUDGE PARKER:  Can you assist us there, Ms. Gopalan?

22             MS. GOPALAN:  I don't have the information at hand, Your Honours,

23     but I can obtain it in due course.  But the purpose for which this

24     photograph is shown is simply for the witness to identify it, and if

25     required, I could ask the witness questions that may enlighten us as to

Page 458

 1     when the photograph was taken.

 2             JUDGE PARKER:  I think it is enough if you can --

 3             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't know when the photo was

 4     taken, but it is a fact that the house is burned.  You can see it very

 5     clearly.  It was burned by the Serbs.  And the house was built after the

 6     war.

 7             MS. GOPALAN:  As it happened --

 8             THE INTERPRETER:  Sorry, burned after the war, correction.

 9             MS. GOPALAN:  As it happens I do have the information at hand, if

10     it pleases Your Honours.

11             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.  If you could let the Chamber and

12     Mr. Djurdjic know that now.

13             MS. GOPALAN:  This is a document dated 4th of July, 1999, and it

14     is a photograph that was provided by the Dutch police.

15        Q.   If I could move on now, Madam Berisha.  You mentioned that you

16     lived with your family on the left-hand side of the house.  Could you

17     tell us a little bit more about your family members.

18        A.   I lived with my husband, Nexhat Berisha, who at the time was

19     43 years old.  My two daughters was Majlinda, 16 years old; Herolinda was

20     our second daughter, 13 years old.  Our son, our first son was Altin, ten

21     years old.  And our youngest son was not yet two years old.

22             On the left-hand side the house has two entrances.  On the

23     left-hand side lived my husband's nephew, Faton.  He was 27 years old, I

24     think, approximately.  His mother was 48 years old, Fatime.  Faton's

25     sister was 17 years old, her name was Sherine.  And Faton's wife was

Page 459

 1     Sebahate, 25 years old, and their two sons, Ismet, three years old, and

 2     Eron, 10 months old.

 3        Q.   Thank you very much, Madam Berisha.

 4             MS. GOPALAN:  Before we move on, I would like to tender the

 5     exhibit 0117 into evidence, Your Honour.

 6             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

 7             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be P00271, Your Honours.

 8             MS. GOPALAN:  As the witness has mentioned a number of names, I

 9     would like to call up the Berisha family tree, which is 65 ter

10     number 2346, to assist us with the various individuals that she has

11     recently referred to.

12             Your Honours, as this is a rather dense document, I have prepared

13     some hard copies to be circulated to the Court in order to ease the

14     reference.  With the usher's assistance, I would like this document to be

15     circulated, with Your Honours' leave.

16             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

17             MS. GOPALAN:

18        Q.   Madam Berisha, I've just circulated through the courtroom a copy

19     of the Berisha family tree.  Do you recall that you prepared this

20     document on the date --

21        A.   Yes.

22        Q.   -- stated at the bottom of the page?  And is that your signature

23     on the bottom?

24        A.   Yes, yes.

25        Q.   Madam Berisha, during your last -- to the best of your knowledge,

Page 460

 1     is the information contained in this document still correct?

 2        A.   Yes.

 3        Q.   You referred to a number of individuals, your family members who

 4     lived with you in your home.  Am I correct that those individuals

 5     referred to are those on the top left-hand corner of the family tree, at

 6     the top of the page?  So your husband is Nexhat?

 7        A.   Yes.

 8        Q.   And your four daughters, Majlinda, Herolinda, et cetera?

 9        A.   My two daughters and my two sons.

10        Q.   Yes.  And the family that lived on the right, that is, Faton's

11     family, and their names are set out on the column just beside; is that

12     correct?

13        A.   Yes, that's correct.

14        Q.   Madam Berisha, there are a number of names in this document.

15        A.   Yes.

16        Q.   Is it correct that the names in red, Nexhat, Fatime, Faton,

17     Sedat, Bujar, and Nexhmedin, are the persons who were known to you as

18     having been killed during the incidents that you're going to talk about?

19        A.   Yes.

20        Q.   Killed in Suva Reka.  And the ones in blue are the names of

21     individuals that you saw in the coffee shop, testimony of which we are

22     shortly going to come to.

23        A.   Yes.

24        Q.   Madam Berisha, I'd like to move on now to the arrival of the OSCE

25     in Suva Reka.

Page 461

 1             MS. GOPALAN:  But before I do that, I would like to tender this

 2     exhibit into evidence, Your Honours.

 3             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

 4             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be P00272, Your Honours.

 5             MS. GOPALAN:

 6        Q.   When did the OSCE arrive in Suva Reka, if you remember?

 7        A.   In 1998 the OSCE came for the first time to Suhareke.

 8        Q.   And when they first arrived, where did they live and work?

 9        A.   For the first time in Suhareke they worked at Boss Hotel in

10     Shiroko, which is the first village from Suhareke.

11        Q.   And do you know who owned the Boss Hotel?

12        A.   The owner of the Boss Hotel was Miskovic.

13        Q.   Did the OSCE later move into your home, Madam Berisha?

14        A.   Yes, they did.  Later they came and met my husband Nexhat and

15     Faton and asked them whether they were willing for the OSCE to take -- to

16     rent our houses and they agreed.  So the OSCE rented our houses and

17     settled there.

18        Q.   And when the OSCE rented your houses and settled there, did you

19     ever go to your house?

20        A.   After the OSCE settled in our house, I and my family, that is, my

21     husband and my children, went to my parents in Mushtisht village to live.

22        Q.   And how about Faton's family?

23        A.   Faton's family, too, Faton with his wife and mother and children,

24     they went to his grandfather's in another town.

25        Q.   Did you know anyone who worked at the OSCE?

Page 462

 1        A.   Yes.  The head of the OSCE was an American by the name Rufus.

 2        Q.   And did you know any local staff who worked at the OSCE?

 3        A.   Yes.  There were many others, locals, who worked for the OSCE,

 4     like guards.  They were Albanians, Serbs, Roma.  One of them was

 5     Miskovic's brother.  He worked as a guard for the OSCE.

 6        Q.   Madam Berisha, you mentioned earlier that your home was divided

 7     into two portions or the house that you lived in was divided into two

 8     portions, the left and the right.  Do you recall how the OSCE used the

 9     left and the right sides of your house?

10        A.   Yes.  The OSCE used the left-hand side, that is, my house where I

11     lived with my husband and my four children, as their headquarters, as

12     offices, whereas Faton's house they used for sleeping there.  Three

13     people lived there, Rufus and two others, whose names I can't remember.

14        Q.   Did the OSCE use any other houses in Suva Reka, apart from yours

15     and Faton's?

16        A.   The other houses were used only to sleep in, whereas ours was one

17     of the houses used as offices.

18        Q.   When did the OSCE move out of your house, Madam Berisha?

19        A.   The OSCE left our house on the 20th of March.

20        Q.   And did you then move back to your house?

21        A.   Yes.  After the OSCE left the house, on the next day, as far as I

22     recall, we came back.  My husband called me on the phone and my father

23     took me and my kids to Suhareke.  But we went to Faton's part of the

24     house, not to ours, because Faton's house had -- the OSCE people had

25     freed Faton's part of the house earlier; therefore, he was there before

Page 463

 1     us.  That is why we went to stay with him.

 2        Q.   When you returned to your house, were there any security people

 3     present there?

 4        A.   Yes, yes.  After we stayed awhile, I and my daughters wanted to

 5     clean up the house and to enter it.  There was a Roma man who used to

 6     work as a guard, security guard, there.

 7        Q.   And did he say anything to you when you went to your house?

 8        A.   He was a Roma man called Zeqa.  He said to me, "Don't be afraid.

 9     I don't think that the Serb police will come again, because they already

10     were here two times."  And he alleged that the Serb police had asked him

11     whether the KLA were pestering them.

12        Q.   And what did you think of the reason he gave you of the police

13     having gone to the house?

14        A.   I thought that the police were there only to find out whether we

15     had come back or not.  This is what I think, or thought.

16        Q.   Do you know if the police had been to other houses in Suva Reka?

17        A.   Afterwards I heard that the police had been also at Murat Suka's

18     house, which was used by the OSCE people to sleep in, and they had looted

19     things there, computers and other appliances.  They had stolen them,

20     looted them.

21        Q.   Thank you.  I would like to move on to the day of the NATO

22     bombing itself.  I believe this was Wednesday, the 24th of March.

23             Madam Berisha, did you notice any particular troop movement on

24     that day?

25        A.   Yes, I did, movements of police and army forces, uninterrupted

Page 464

 1     movements.

 2        Q.   Could you describe to us what the men who you describe as

 3     policemen were wearing.

 4        A.   Yes.  They were wearing uniforms.

 5        Q.   Do you recall what colour these uniforms were?

 6        A.   They were green, dark green uniforms, dark green camouflage

 7     uniforms, and blue camouflage.  To tell you the truth, I don't recall

 8     very clearly because ten years have passed since that time.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  We understand that.  Do you recall if they were

10     travelling in any particular vehicles?

11        A.   Yes, there were many vehicles, buses.  There were Pinzgauers with

12     many people in them, in the buses.  There were people who shouted, who

13     drank from the bottle.  They shouted in loud voices.

14        Q.   You mentioned --

15        A.   There were also people who seemed more earnest.  All sorts of

16     people, I would say.  They looked like animals, not like human beings.

17        Q.   Those people who were shouting, what language were they shouting

18     in?

19        A.   They shouted in their own language, in Serbian.  Some didn't cry,

20     didn't shout.  They were sitting in the buses.  Some of them were

21     shouting out loud.

22        Q.   Do you recall any particular markings on these tanks or

23     Pinzgauers or buses?

24        A.   You mean markings on the vehicles?

25        Q.   Yes.

Page 465

 1        A.   The vehicles were of all sorts of colours - blue, green.  There

 2     were some people who were wearing headbands, and those were the ones who

 3     shouted out louder.

 4             MS. GOPALAN:  I would like to call up exhibit -- 65 ter number

 5     0189.

 6        Q.   Madam Berisha, would you be able to mark on the photograph that

 7     appears on the screen where you saw these vehicles move during the day of

 8     the NATO bombing?  Or you could first describe it to us.  There are two

 9     roads running --

10        A.   The road to --

11             JUDGE PARKER:  Could I interrupt.

12             Mr. Djurdjic.

13             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, we have said that

14     this is special procedure and now we get a photograph that already is

15     marked by someone.  I would like to ask and I would like to propose that

16     we see an unmarked photograph here and then the witness can mark, make

17     the markings.  I think that we had the same problem with the tree, but

18     that was the tree 2006.  But now we don't know what this is.  I think

19     that the witness should tell us where things were and what things were.

20     Now we see a photograph with no date, and with the first witness that we

21     had, we had the same.

22             JUDGE PARKER:  Can you assist us with the markings that appear on

23     this photograph, Ms. Gopalan?

24             MS. GOPALAN:  Yes, I may, Your Honours.  Firstly, the marking

25     that I would be asking Madam Berisha to make is unrelated to the markings

Page 466

 1     that are visible in the photograph; but more importantly, these markings

 2     were markings made by an investigator but upon identification of

 3     Madam Berisha herself.  So these are markings that she herself provided

 4     in the past, dated March 2006.  These are buildings and locations that

 5     she --

 6             JUDGE PARKER:  Well, don't tell us about them.

 7             MS. GOPALAN:  Okay.

 8             JUDGE PARKER:  We're not easy with the procedure of pre-marked

 9     exhibits.  If you want this witness to describe certain events, the

10     witness should be given a blank photograph, one that is unmarked I mean,

11     and she may then draw for herself what she says is correct.  Now, do we

12     have an unmarked copy of this photograph available?

13             MS. GOPALAN:  Yes, we do, Your Honours.  It's just been admitted.

14     It's D00009.

15             JUDGE PARKER:  We'll get Exhibit D9 up and move from there.

16             MS. GOPALAN:

17        Q.   Madam Berisha, could you mark for us where it was that you saw

18     this convoy we were just talking about?

19        A.   Yes.  The convoy of the Serbian police and army members always

20     moved along the Prishtina-Prizren road, in this direction, on this road

21     here.

22        Q.   Thank you very much, Madam Berisha.

23             MS. GOPALAN:  Could I --

24             JUDGE PARKER:  Could I suggest that the point of an arrow be put

25     on the line to indicate the direction the convoys were moving.  Are you

Page 467

 1     able to do that for us, Ms. Berisha?

 2             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.  And on their way back, on

 3     this side.  The Prizren direction is here, and towards Prishtina they

 4     moved on this direction here.

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  The arrow first made was on the right-hand side of

 6     the exhibit in the direction in which a truck is depicted in the

 7     photograph moving, and the return journey is toward the left and bottom

 8     of the photograph.

 9             MS. GOPALAN:  Thank you, Your Honours.  Could I ask that this

10     exhibit be tendered into evidence, Your Honours.

11             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

12             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be P00273, Your Honours.

13             MS. GOPALAN:

14        Q.   Madam Berisha, the day after the bombing, this is the

15     25th of March, 1999, what happened in the morning of that day?

16        A.   On the 25th of March, at about 5.00 a.m., there was a knock at

17     the front door of Faton's house where we were sleeping, all the members

18     of my family.  I got up and opened the door.  There were three Serbian

19     policemen standing at the door and they were all wearing automatic

20     rifles.

21        Q.   Could you tell us what they were wearing in terms of clothes?

22        A.   They were wearing uniforms.  I'm not quite sure now about the

23     colour.

24        Q.   Did you recognise any of them?

25        A.   No, I didn't, none of them.

Page 468

 1        Q.   Did they have any distinctive markings on their uniforms?

 2        A.   Yes.  On one of their shoulders, now I don't remember which side

 3     it was, left or right, there was a white insignia.

 4        Q.   These three policemen who arrived at your door, what did they say

 5     to you?

 6        A.   When I opened the door, the three of them pointed their automatic

 7     rifles at me and said to me, "Where are your guests, the Americans?"

 8     They cursed and they told me to ask my husband to come down.  This is

 9     what I did.  He came down and they took him with them, and together they

10     went to our part of the house that the OSCE used as their offices.

11        Q.   And when they spoke to you at the door, what language did they

12     use, Madam Berisha?

13        A.   They were speaking in their language, the Serbian language, and I

14     understand the language very well and understood them perfectly well.

15        Q.   You mentioned that these policemen took your husband to your part

16     of the house.  Did you see anything unusual outside your house as they

17     were heading out?

18        A.   When they took my husband with them, I remained there in front of

19     the house, trying to see or hear what they were going to do with my

20     husband; and at that moment a policeman came, a Serb, and he climbed on

21     the second floor where the children were and Faton as well and he started

22     to search the house.  And I communicated with him in Serbian, I told him,

23     "There's nothing in there.  You can only find children's clothes there."

24             On the way down he found Sebahate's bag.  He searched the bag.

25     There were only some medicines for the children and Sebahate's wallet

Page 469

 1     there.  When he didn't find anything in the wallet, he threw the bag on

 2     the staircase.  I followed him down to the basement and then he made the

 3     sign with his fingers, the money sign, and he said to me, "You have to

 4     give some money because your husband's life is in danger."

 5             So I went upstairs and took 1.000 Deutschemarks from Sebahate and

 6     I gave them to this policeman, and he said to me, "How do you think you

 7     can save your husband's life only with 1.000 Deutschemarks?"  And I said

 8     to him, "I have no more money."

 9             So I continued to try and find out what was going on with my

10     husband.  I was looking around, and at one particular moment I saw a

11     policeman.  His shirt was buttoned down.  And he had some knives strapped

12     on his shoulder.  I was very scared.  He started running towards me, but

13     the policeman whom I gave 1.000 Euros saw this person and said to him,

14     "Zarko, Zarko, come here."  He caught him by his arm and together they

15     went in the direction of the part of the house where my husband was.  I

16     was very scared.

17        Q.   After Zarko and this policeman left towards your husband's part

18     of the house, did you see anything outside your house?

19        A.   There was a truck there and some policemen were loading it up

20     with stuff from our house - televisions, computers, things that had

21     remained in our house.

22        Q.   Was it only items from your house that was being loaded into the

23     truck?

24        A.   Yes.

25        Q.   Could you describe the truck to us, please.

Page 470

 1        A.   It wasn't a big truck, but they were throwing in things, as much

 2     as they could, because they were making signs with their hands to me and

 3     shouting at me, "Don't come close," and they were cursing.

 4        Q.   Apart from the truck, Madam Berisha, could you see any other

 5     vehicles from your house?

 6        A.   Yes.  On the other side, in the vicinity of Agron's house, there

 7     was a tank facing our house, so it was in front of Agron's house, this

 8     tank.

 9        Q.   I'm going to stop you there for a moment so that you can mark for

10     us where Agron's house and the tank is located.

11             MS. GOPALAN:  Could we call up D0009, please.

12        Q.   Madam Berisha, could you mark for us on the map where

13     Agron Berisha's house is located, please.

14        A.   This is Agron's house.

15        Q.   Could you --

16        A.   I marked it with number 1.

17        Q.   And could you place a number 2 on where the tank was located,

18     please.

19        A.   I will try.  Approximately, it was somewhere here.

20        Q.   And could you place a number 2 beside your dot, please.

21        A.   [Marks]

22        Q.   Thank you.  Thank you.  And could you place a number 3 to where

23     you were at, so your house.

24        A.   The house proper or the location where I was, the entrance?

25        Q.   The location where you were, please.  Thank you.

Page 471

 1        A.   Here.  Here is the entrance.

 2        Q.   Would you mark that as number 3, please.

 3        A.   Yes.  I will do my best because my hand is shaking.

 4        Q.   And could you draw an arrow just towards the house that you lived

 5     in with your family and Faton's family that later became the OSCE house?

 6        A.   Yes, this one.

 7        Q.   Thank you very much, Madam Berisha.

 8             MS. GOPALAN:  Could I ask for this --

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

10             MS. GOPALAN:  Thank you very much.

11             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be P00274, Your Honours.

12             MS. GOPALAN:

13        Q.   Madam Berisha, what happened to your husband in the OSCE house?

14     Let me rephrase that question.  What happened to your husband who was

15     taken to the OSCE offices by the three policemen?

16        A.   They took my husband, as I explained, and they started searching

17     the cupboards, and there they found some pictures that the OSCE had made

18     of burnt villages.  So they started to shout at my husband, to curse him

19     and to beat him.

20        Q.   Did they say --

21        A.   I didn't see this, but my husband told me this later.

22        Q.   Did they say anything in particular to him?

23        A.   They said, "Now the Americans should come and defend you.  You

24     asked them for help so Father Clinton should come and help you now," and

25     other similar things.

Page 472

 1        Q.   Did you see your husband being beaten, Madam Berisha?

 2        A.   No, I didn't, because I was on the other side, in the other side

 3     of the house.  I didn't see that, but he told me this later on.

 4        Q.   Did you see anything when he returned to your side of the house?

 5        A.   Yes.  When he returned I was there with my sister-in-law, Fatime,

 6     and in our presence they hit them with their automatic rifle and they

 7     kicked them -- they kicked him.  But he stood up again, entered the

 8     house, and he was all bruised on his face because of the wounds that were

 9     inflicted to him with the automatic rifles and the chairs.

10        Q.   Madam Berisha, you mentioned that you had given some money

11     earlier in the day to someone in your house.  Did anyone else, any other

12     family member, give any money that day?

13        A.   Yes.  They asked money of my husband.  They said to him, "You

14     must have money because the OSCE was staying in your house."  And they

15     also said, "You see this tank outside your house?  We will blow up your

16     house with all the children in it."  So I had 3.000 Deutschemarks.  I

17     feared that the Serbian people, the policemen who were there, were going

18     to ask me to take my clothes off, so all the money that I had in me, I

19     took it out and gave it to the policemen with the gloves.

20             My sister-in-law also had money in her chest and she tried to

21     take it out, but the police, with the black gloves, could not wait.  He

22     put her hands in her chest and took the money out and then said to the

23     other person, "Boss, come here, look at this," and gave the money to the

24     other policeman, the taller person who resembled a commander.  He seemed

25     to be their commander.

Page 473

 1        Q.   Madam Berisha, on that day, approximately how many policemen were

 2     in your home and around it?

 3        A.   I'm not quite certain for that particular day.  Maybe 15 or 20.

 4     I've forgotten that detail.

 5        Q.   You --

 6        A.   But they were of a younger age.  They were not that old, the

 7     policemen.

 8        Q.   You've already said that you didn't recognise any of the

 9     policemen, but did any of your family members recognise these policemen?

10        A.   I didn't know any of them, and neither did my husband.  This is

11     what he said to me.  But as soon as they took the money, they ordered me

12     and my husband to go downstairs, so only Fatime, my sister-in-law,

13     remained there.  My daughter, who was 16 at the time, Majlinda, she said

14     to me, "Mother, I've seen this policeman with the blonde hair and he

15     boarded the bus on every day, the same bus that I used from Mushtisht."

16             So after the events I told this my father, I told this to my

17     father, and he said that this person worked for the police station and

18     was from Mushtisht.  But as I said, I didn't recognise him; my daughter

19     recognised him.

20        Q.   And where did your father live, Madam Berisha?

21        A.   My father was living in Mushtisht village, which is near

22     Suhareke.

23        Q.   After the policemen left your home, what did you do?

24        A.   After they left we were really scared and decided to leave for my

25     husband's uncle's house, Vesel Berisha, whose house was just behind our

Page 474

 1     house.

 2             MS. GOPALAN:  I'd like to call up Exhibit 00272, which I believe

 3     is the family tree.

 4        Q.   Madam Berisha, could you please tell us who spent the night -- or

 5     who went to Vesel Berisha's house on that day?

 6        A.   It was my family and I, Faton and his family, and the family of

 7     Vesel Berisha in Vesel Berisha's house.  Do you want me to mention

 8     everyone by their name?

 9        Q.   Perhaps you could mention those who weren't there.

10        A.   Faik Berisha, Bahrije Berisha, Vesel Berisha, Naim Berisha, and

11     Arben Berisha were not there, the ones marked with a black square.

12        Q.   Thank you.  So apart from those individuals you named, the rest

13     of the family stayed at Vesel Berisha's house that night.

14        A.   Yes.

15             MS. GOPALAN:  Your Honours, I could move on to another area of

16     evidence, the events of the next day, but this may also be a convenient

17     point to stop, so I seek Your Honours' guidance in this regard.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  Very well.  I think the most practical course

19     would be to adjourn now because you're now moving to a distinct part of

20     the evidence of Ms. Berisha.

21             We must adjourn now for the night, Ms. Berisha.  We will continue

22     tomorrow -- sorry, we continue on Wednesday, at 2.15, in another

23     courtroom and I would be grateful if you could continue your evidence at

24     that time.  The people who've been assisting you will give you further

25     assistance and directions during this gap in your evidence.

Page 475

 1             So we now adjourn, to resume on Wednesday, at 2.15, in

 2     Courtroom II.

 3                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 6.55 p.m.,

 4                           to be reconvened on Wednesday, the 4th day of

 5                           February, 2009, at 2.15 p.m.