Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 3031

 1                           Wednesday, 1 April 2009

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           --- Upon commencing at 2.19 p.m.

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  Good afternoon.

 6             I understand, Mr. Djurdjic, that there may be a matter you want

 7     to raise.

 8             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.  I would

 9     seek some clarification and it significantly affects the preparations of

10     the Defence and the efficacy of these proceedings.  The Defence has

11     noted, especially in terms of the notification provided for the next

12     three witnesses, that the paragraphs that are specifically mentioned in

13     relation to the witnesses who are to be heard actually differ from those

14     stated in the 65 ter annexes of the pre-trial brief.  In actual fact,

15     what is mentioned here are 1 through 5, and perhaps paragraphs 72, 75,

16     and 73, for instance.  There aren't any others.  Whereas in the pre-trial

17     brief, in the summary, there are other paragraphs that are referred to,

18     especially for Gerxhaliu and Sabit Kadriu, the next two witnesses.  And

19     that has happened so far as well with crime-base witnesses.

20             The preparations considerably differ and the duration of the

21     cross itself if we restrict ourselves only to the crime-based paragraphs.

22     If we have to deal with the historical context and the political part,

23     say 85, 84, up to 90, then the way in which we have to prepare and

24     conduct our cross becomes completely different.

25             I would appreciate it if the OTP could explain whether these are

Page 3032

 1     mere omissions or are they actually revising or redacting their pre-trial

 2     brief.  So what we received by way of notification is different.  Let me

 3     be specific on that.

 4             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

 5             Do I look to Ms. Nilsen?

 6             MS. NILSEN:  Yes, Your Honours.  Thank you.  When it comes to the

 7     upcoming witness, Ms. Fedrije Xhafa, I'm not quite sure whether it is

 8     like my learned colleague has stated now, that it is a discrepancy

 9     between the 65 ter list and the notification that the Prosecution has

10     already provided counsel.  In the 65 ter witness list, the -- described

11     paragraphs from the indictments are 72(m), 75(j), and 100 -- which is

12     exactly the same as in the notification to the Defence.  So I am a little

13     unsure what he is referring to.

14             JUDGE PARKER:  Perhaps you could help there, Mr. Djurdjic.

15             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.  In the

16     pre-trial brief, precisely for this lady where the deviation is the

17     smallest as it were it is --

18             THE INTERPRETER:  Could counsel please slow down when giving

19     numbers, reading out numbers.

20             JUDGE PARKER:  I think, Mr. Djurdjic, you've got ahead of the

21     interpreters.

22             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I do apologise.  I'll take

23     it slowly.

24             JUDGE PARKER:  Whenever we get excited we get fast.  We need to

25     slow down.

Page 3033

 1             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I forget that there is

 2     interpretation of what I am saying.  For Ms. Fedrije Xhafa, in the

 3     pre-trial brief the following paragraphs are mentioned 25 to 32, 72(m),

 4     72(l), and 100.  We received notification for 72(m), 75, and 77

 5     respectively.  However, let me tell you, it's not really that important

 6     for her --

 7             THE INTERPRETER:  Again counsel is giving numbers too fast.

 8             JUDGE PARKER:  Just --

 9             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter's note:  Could we kindly ask

10     Mr. Djurdjic to read out the numbers at a regular pace.  Thank you.

11             JUDGE PARKER:  One of the biggest problems seems to be when

12     you're reading numbers, you slip through them very quickly.

13             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I'm reading the notification for

14     Dr. Shukri Gerxhaliu.  We received on the 30th or on the 29th, I don't

15     know exactly, the paragraphs were the following:  72(m), 75(i), and 77.

16             In the pre-trial brief the references are the following:  16, 23

17     through 32, 72(m), 73, 75(j), 77, and 100.

18             In relation to the next witness, and I don't have him over here

19     right now, there are again significant differences between the

20     notification and what is mentioned in the 65 ter pre-trial brief.

21             I would just like to tell you the following:  If it only has to

22     do with the crime base, then my cross is much shorter and faster, of

23     course and more effective and efficient; but if we prepare in line with

24     the pre-trial brief, then it takes longer for the historical, political

25     context and the first part that has to do with joint criminal enterprise,

Page 3034

 1     or rather -- rather, paragraphs from 28 to 32.  That is why I don't

 2     understand.

 3             If the OTP is reducing these witnesses that they're calling now

 4     only to the crime base, if they are changing the summary of the pre-trial

 5     brief, then could we please be told as much and then we are going to

 6     prepare in line with that and then we'll be faster and more efficient.

 7     Let us know what the subject of the testimony is.  Oh, I see, I am sorry,

 8     Mr. Stamp has arrived.  Yes.  I see that now, so he will be able ...

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  Ms. Nilsen or Mr. Stamp?  We will -- whoever would

10     like to have the microphone.

11             MR. STAMP:  Your Honours, I really wish to be economical on time,

12     and I'm afraid that I do not follow fully what the complaint is.  It

13     seems to me --

14             JUDGE PARKER:  The complaint is that in the pre-trial brief you

15     have given references to a number of paragraphs or passages in the

16     indictment to which the witness is said by the Prosecution to be

17     relevant.

18             MR. STAMP:  Yes.

19             JUDGE PARKER:  In the witness notifications that have been given

20     in the last week or two, two weeks ahead of the witness coming, the

21     references to the indictment, in some cases at least, are much shorter

22     and do not include some of the references that were originally given.

23     Now, the Defence, not unreasonably, wants to know is this a conscious and

24     deliberate narrowing of the scope of the evidence of the witness so that

25     the Prosecution will not rely on this witness in the case in respect of

Page 3035

 1     the wider range of references to the indictment originally suggested?  Or

 2     is it that for some other reason you simply shortened the references to

 3     the indictment?  Is this something you're able to deal with at this

 4     moment or not?

 5             MR. STAMP:  I was about to indicate that I would prefer to deal

 6     with it at the next break.  I can say in respect to the next witness, the

 7     notification in the filed summaries, 65 ter summaries, is the governing

 8     notification even if -- and I'm not sure if it applies to this witness,

 9     even if in that case, the case of the next, upcoming witness, the filed

10     notification of two days ago refers only to the crime base.  The

11     governing notification is the 65 ter unless a formal application to amend

12     is made.

13             JUDGE PARKER:  Now, you're going to have to help me understand

14     what you're saying there.

15             MR. STAMP:  Yeah.

16             JUDGE PARKER:  Are you saying that you are going to rely on this

17     witness, the next one --

18             MR. STAMP:  The next --

19             JUDGE PARKER:  -- only for crime base?

20             MR. STAMP:  No, no, Your Honour.

21             JUDGE PARKER:  You're saying that the original wider notification

22     is the one that you want to provide?

23             MR. STAMP:  I assume it is wider, that is why I am so vague

24     because I have not been able to look at the 65 ter.  Perhaps if I am told

25     these things that these matters will be raised before, I could look at it

Page 3036

 1     and provide precise answers.  Assuming that counsel is right and that the

 2     65 ter filed formally is wider than the wider -- 65 ter that was formally

 3     filed governs the situation.

 4             JUDGE PARKER:  Now, can we ask that you will look at the other

 5     witnesses and be in a position to let Mr. Djurdjic know promptly in the

 6     course of today --

 7             MR. STAMP:  By the next break.

 8             JUDGE PARKER:  -- the position in respect to the coming

 9     witnesses.

10             MR. STAMP:  Yes, Your Honours.  Thank you.

11             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

12             For the next witness, Mr. Djurdjic, you need to assume that it's

13     the wider reference, and Mr. Stamp will speak to you when he's had a

14     chance to check for the further witnesses.

15             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.  There's

16     just something I wished to say in relation to this other witness, after

17     the one ho is supposed to be heard now.  He starts to testify from 1800

18     something until 1998.  The Defence wanted to deal with 1800 something in

19     a different way and to start only from 1998 to admit into evidence his

20     statement only starting with 1998.  If we start with the 1800s, as

21     Dr. Sabit Kadriu says, I think that this is really going to last a long

22     time.  Thank you.

23             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Stamp, are you able to speak about the witness

24     of -- Dr. Kadriu and whether you really are relying on his evidence going

25     back to the century before last?

Page 3037

 1             MR. STAMP:  Your Honours, these are matters of background.  You

 2     know, I think that aspect of the testimony --

 3             JUDGE PARKER:  We'll have the first battle of Sarajevo shortly

 4     introduced into the case, which is 1300 and I think 89 or something like

 5     that.  I don't think it's going to be of a great deal of use to the

 6     Trial Chamber.

 7             MR. STAMP:  Yes, Your Honour.  Can I -- this is not the next

 8     witness, this is one of -- it's the next one for tomorrow.

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  Well, we might get through two or three witnesses

10     a day if we're dealing with crime base, you see.

11             MR. STAMP:  Indeed, indeed.  But there is some background

12     information which I think is brief, but it is probably necessary for

13     complete understanding of some of the allegations.

14             JUDGE PARKER:  Well, you'll look into that as well as the other

15     forthcoming witnesses and inform Mr. Djurdjic during the next break.

16             MR. STAMP:  Yes, Your Honour.

17             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you then.

18             Perhaps we could have the next witness.

19                           [Trial Chamber confers]

20                           [The witness entered court]

21             JUDGE PARKER:  Good afternoon.

22             THE WITNESS:  Good afternoon.  [Interpretation] Good afternoon.

23             JUDGE PARKER:  Would you please read aloud the affirmation on the

24     card that is given to you now.

25             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

Page 3038

 1     speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

 2                           WITNESS:  FEDRIJE XHAFA

 3                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

 4             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you very much.  Please sit down.

 5             Ms. Nilsen has some questions for you.

 6             MS. NILSEN:  Thank you, Your Honours.  Before I start questioning

 7     the witness, I am seeking to make use of a map that has not been yet

 8     admitted into evidence, and I would ask your permission to use this today

 9     and add it into our 65 ter exhibit list.  I can indicate the map has

10     65 ter number 05244 and this map was disclosed to the Defence counsel

11     last week.  I have also consulted my learned friend, and he hasn't

12     opposed against it.  And this map is quite detailed and I guess it would

13     be to our benefit.

14             JUDGE PARKER:  Very well.

15                           Examination by Ms. Nilsen:

16        Q.   Ms. Xhafa, could you please state your full name and birth date.

17        A.   My name is Fedrije Xhafa.  I was born in 1964.

18        Q.   And where are you from originally?

19        A.   I was born in the village of Bari, Mitrovica municipality, and

20     now I live in the village of Maze e Ulet, Vushtrri municipality.

21        Q.   This village, Maze e Ulet, did it have another name before the

22     war?

23        A.   Yes, it was called Saracak i Ulet.

24        Q.   If it's fine with you, Ms. Xhafa, we will use this name further

25     on in this testimony just to make it easier according to the map so far.

Page 3039

 1             I would like you to tell the Court what kind of occupation you

 2     had before the war in 1999.

 3        A.   Before the war for a short time I worked as a dress-maker.  I

 4     finished a course in dress-making.  After the war, in 2000, I got an

 5     employment with the police academy in Vushtrri.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  I will go back to your village in Vushtrri.  Where

 7     there other ethnic groups in this village than Kosovo Albanians when you

 8     lived there back in -- before the war in 1999?

 9        A.   Yes, there were.  There were several Serbian households.

10        Q.   And how many households approximately would you say was there

11     before the war?

12        A.   About ten I would say, not more than that.

13        Q.   Ten households all together in this village?

14        A.   Yes, but I'm not quite sure.  This is what I think the number

15     was.

16        Q.   Ms. Xhafa, did you testify at Milutinovic et al. trial on the

17     25th and the 28th of August, 2006?

18        A.   Yes.

19        Q.   And right before you testified, did you also, on the

20     25th of August, 2006, give your last statement to the

21     Office of the Prosecution of this Tribunal; is that correct?

22        A.   Yes.

23        Q.   Thank you.  Have you had a chance to read through your statement

24     as well as your testimony from that trial previously before you came to

25     witness -- to court today?

Page 3040

 1        A.   Are you referring to the last statement?

 2        Q.   I'm referring to both the statement that you gave back in 2006

 3     and also the transcript from the testimony that you gave in the

 4     Milutinovic et al. case.  Did you have a chance to read through those?

 5        A.   Yes.

 6        Q.   And as I understand there are a couple of things that you would

 7     like to amend from this statement or clarify.

 8             MS. NILSEN:  If we could have up the 65 ter number 02274.  That

 9     will be the statement of 25th of August, and if we can both have the

10     Albanian and the English version.  If we could put up page 2, and on

11     paragraph 5, just zoom in that.  I have also a hard copy with me for the

12     witness if it's difficult for her to read.  Yes.

13        Q.   In line 5 it reads:

14             "Around 9.00 p.m. four Serb policemen arrived."

15             I understand that you want to amend this information of how many

16     there were; is that correct, Ms. Xhafa?  Can you see the statements on

17     the screen?  You're on paragraph 5, line 5.

18        A.   Yes.

19        Q.   Did you have any changes regarding to how many Serb policemen who

20     arrived?

21        A.   I believe I said when I gave my statement that a large group of

22     policemen came.  We saw a large number of policemen that came on the

23     street.

24        Q.   Fine.  So instead of being specific with four policemen, you

25     would change it to a large group of policemen arrived; is that correct?

Page 3041

 1        A.   Correct.

 2        Q.   And then if we could stay on the same -- thank you so much.

 3             MS. NILSEN:  And then if we could stay with the same

 4     65 ter number and move on to page 3, please.

 5        Q.   On the same paragraph but line 9 this time which reads:

 6             "The paramilitaries shouted at the tractor drivers to clear the

 7     road to allow their armed vehicles to pass."

 8             Is there something here that you would like to amend as well,

 9     Ms. Xhafa?

10        A.   Yes.  I talk about the paramilitaries here.  I called

11     paramilitaries those who wore Balaclavas and gloves at the time, but I

12     know now that they were policemen.  They -- all of them had the same

13     uniform, blue uniform.  I wanted to call them policemen in my statement.

14        Q.   Could you just please try to explain the reason why you then --

15     back then said it was the paramilitaries?

16        A.   At the time, I thought that those who wore Balaclavas and gloves

17     were paramilitaries.  Now that I work in a police academy, I can tell

18     what the police uniform is and looks like those at the time who were

19     wearing Balaclavas and gloves wore the same police uniform, the blue

20     police uniform.

21        Q.   Thank you so much.  And the last thing I have noted is on e-court

22     page 4, paragraph 9, where your 13th sentence reads:

23             "After a while, the Serbs returned ..."

24             Is there something that you would like to clarify regarding this

25     matter as well?  There is a sentence in the end of paragraph 9.  Maybe

Page 3042

 1     it's difficult for you to read, but initially it says:

 2             "After a while, the Serbs returned ..."

 3             Is there anything that you would like to amend or clarify

 4     regarding this?

 5        A.   Just a moment, please.

 6        Q.   Yes.  If you cannot read it, Ms. Xhafa, maybe you can anyway tell

 7     me is there any changes now when I'm reading it for you so that you can

 8     orally tell me if there is anything that you have -- that you want to

 9     clarify from the sentence:

10             "After a while, the Serbs returned."

11             Do you have something more you want or additional information who

12     returned?

13        A.   After a while, the Serb forces returned.

14        Q.   And what do you mean with the "Serb forces"?  Do you have any

15     specific units that you're referring to, military, police or --

16        A.   There were both police and military.

17        Q.   And did they drive in any vehicles, do you remember?  If you

18     don't remember, we can come back to it later.

19        A.   [In English] Okay.

20        Q.   Fine.  Thank you, except from the last thing that you were a

21     little bit unsure of -- with this correction now made?

22        A.   [Interpretation]  I don't know to which incident you're

23     referring, that's why I cannot clarify.  Can you please tell me which

24     incident you're referring to?

25        Q.   I propose that we make that clarification later when we have

Page 3043

 1     explained the evidence so that you can see everything in -- what happened

 2     or recall happening.  Anyway, with those corrections that you have made

 3     so far, does your statement and your transcript from the

 4     Milutinovic et al. statement or trial, sorry, reflect your evidence and

 5     would you testify to the same fact today?

 6        A.   Yes.

 7             MS. NILSEN:  Your Honours, I would like to seek to tender the

 8     65 ter 05144 and 65 ter number 02274, which is respectively the

 9     transcript of Ms. Xhafa's testimony in the Milutinovic et al. case and

10     witness statement from 25th of August, 2006.  Thank you.

11             JUDGE PARKER:  First the transcript will be received.

12             THE REGISTRAR:  As Exhibit P509, Your Honours.

13             JUDGE PARKER:  Secondly, the statement.

14             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be --

15             JUDGE PARKER:  -- the 25th of August, 2006.

16             THE REGISTRAR:  -- that will be Exhibit P510, Your Honours.

17             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

18             MS. NILSEN:  Thank you.

19             I would now like to provide a brief summary, Your Honours, of

20     Ms. Xhafa's evidence.

21             The witness describes the events leading to the convoy massacre

22     in Studime i Eperme or Gornja Sudimlja, the 2nd of May, 1999.  The

23     witness has explained that after the NATO bombing began,

24     the 24th of March, 1999, Serb forces started to burn the houses in the

25     village where she and her family lived.  This -- the name of this village

Page 3044

 1     was back then Saracak i Ulet in Albanian and Donji Svracak in Serbian.

 2     The witness's family and herself was therefore forced to leave their

 3     home, and they first went to the village Dumnica and then to Samodreza.

 4             They were here told by the KLA forces that the Serb forces were

 5     approaching and from Samodreza the witness and her family had to flee

 6     together and they went to Vesekoc where they spent five weeks.  After

 7     this, they moved further to Sllakovc, where they spent two nights.  They

 8     were here informed by the KLA again that the Serb forces were advancing

 9     from the north.  After this, the witness and her family joined a large

10     convoy of people moving towards Vushtrri in the municipality of Vushtrri.

11             The witness has stated that she road a tractor together with her

12     13 member of family, and she has also stated how the Serb forces attacked

13     her family several times in this convoy how her brother was shot and her

14     father was shot and killed.

15             The witness has also explained how her family continued on foot

16     from Studime, where this happened, to the outskirts of Vushtrri, the

17     town.  And here they were directed into an agricultural co-operative

18     building where the men, aged between 15 and 60 years, were separated from

19     the rest, and how these men had to go to a prison in Smrekovnica.

20             The witness has told how she and the rest of her family were sent

21     to the village of Kicic after this and then to the village Dobra Luka,

22     where the remainder of men were caught by the police and sent to the same

23     prison in Smrekovnica.  She has also described how she and all the other

24     women had to go back to Vushtrri and obtain a written allowance from the

25     Serb police to be able to stay in Dobra Luka.

Page 3045

 1             And this is the end of the witness summary.

 2        Q.   Ms. Xhafa, in your statement you have described that you and your

 3     family left your home because Serb forces had begun to burn the houses in

 4     your village.  Could you please explain to us which date that you left

 5     and to where you went first.

 6        A.   It was the 28th of March, 1999, when they started to burn the

 7     houses in Saracak i Eperme.  The population of the village began to

 8     leave.  We joined the convoy, and from our village we went to

 9     Dumnice village.  There we spent one night.  And from there we proceeded

10     to Samadrexha --

11        Q.   If I can stop you there, please, for a moment.  When you left the

12     28th of March, you said that the Serb forces began to burn houses, but

13     did you actually see this for yourself?  Did you see these houses being

14     burnt?

15        A.   Yes, one could see the flames coming out of the houses in

16     Saracak i Eperme and the neighbours, those who lived close to the houses

17     that were set on fire, also told me this.  We all left the village and my

18     family and I joined the convoy.

19        Q.   Were you at any time able to see or describe the people who you

20     saw or who were doing this, who set fire on these houses?

21        A.   They were very far.  We could not see them in the act of setting

22     the houses on fire.  We only saw the flames.

23        Q.   All right.  And then you went to Dumnica, where you spent one

24     night, and then to Samodreza you have told.  How many nights did you

25     spend in Samodreza before you went further?

Page 3046

 1        A.   In Samadrexha I remained only for a short while.  We were

 2     informed that the Serb forces were coming in the direction of Samadrexha,

 3     and that's why we had to proceed to Vesekoc.

 4        Q.   So with a short while, you mean that you didn't stay over any

 5     nights there in Samodreza?

 6        A.   Half an hour, not more than that.

 7        Q.   All right.  And then you approached to Vesekoc, where you stayed

 8     five weeks.  Why did you leave Vesekoc after five weeks?

 9        A.   We left Vesekoc on the 30th of April because we were informed

10     that the police forces were advancing in two directions, that the front

11     line was broken --

12             THE INTERPRETER:  The interpreter didn't get the name of the

13     village where the front line was broken.

14             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] -- the forces, the Serb forces,

15     were shelling, and the order was given to us to leave the area.

16             MS. NILSEN:

17        Q.   In which town did you say you were informed that the forces were

18     broken and therefore had to leave?

19        A.   In Melenice village.

20        Q.   And this is in Mitrovica, right?

21        A.   It belongs to the Shala area, this village.

22        Q.   Fine.  When you were in Vesekoc, were you aware of whether any

23     Serb forces had taken up positions in the area around; and in that case,

24     where?

25        A.   I don't know where the Serb forces had taken up positions, but

Page 3047

 1     someone informed my family and the others that were there, the civilians,

 2     and told us to withdraw from that area because the Serb forces were

 3     advancing in our direction.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  And then after you had spent approximately five weeks

 5     in Vesekoc, you went to Sllakovc.  How many days or nights did you spend

 6     there?

 7        A.   We stayed for two days in Sllakovc.

 8        Q.   And why did you decide to leave from here after two days?

 9        A.   For the same reason.  We again heard that the Serb forces were

10     advancing in the direction of the area where the civilians where, in

11     Sllakovc village, and therefore we decided to join the convoy and head

12     towards Vushtrri.

13        Q.   And which date are we talking about now when you decided to join

14     the convoy and left Sllakovc?

15        A.   2nd of May, 1999.  It was about 1.00 p.m.

16        Q.   Were you told by anyone to join this convoy?

17        A.   People decided to form this convoy.  There was nowhere for us to

18     go.  We were surrounded from all sides.  The only way out, we thought,

19     was road to Studime continuing towards Vushtrri.

20        Q.   And how many people would you estimate were in this convoy?

21        A.   It was a very long convoy.  I cannot give you the accurate number

22     of people, but I would say there were about 50.000 people in the convoy.

23        Q.   And which ethnicity did these people, this approximately 50.000

24     people, belong to?

25        A.   We were all Albanians, civilians.

Page 3048

 1        Q.   Thank you.  We are now at the 2nd of May.  You have left Sllakovc

 2     and joined the convoy towards Vushtrri.  Could you please explain to the

 3     Court what happened to your family this day.

 4        A.   On this day, we were ordered to stop between the two Studime

 5     villages, Studime i Eperme and Studime i Ulet.  We stopped there.  We sat

 6     in a field in Studime area.  We were told that we could not continue to

 7     Vushtrri in the afternoon because of the curfew.  They said that it was

 8     impossible to continue to Vushtrri after 4.00 p.m. because of the curfew.

 9     We stayed in this field until 9.00 p.m.; at around that time, the police

10     forces came.  They fired gun-shots in the air.  They ordered the drivers

11     to get on the tractors and make way for their forces.

12        Q.   We know from your statement, Ms. Xhafa, that during this day you

13     were approached several times, your family, by Serb forces.  Could you

14     explain this further, please.

15        A.   Yes.  My elder brother Fazli and Mirsad started to walk, whereas

16     we, the others, went to fetch the tractor and continue on the tractor.

17     When we arrived there after a short while, a group of policemen came.  My

18     brother Jetish and my brother's son Ismet were on the tractor.  The

19     policemen came there and asked for identification document.  They began

20     to beat Ismet and they asked for money.  My brother Jetish gave them

21     200 Deutschemarks.

22        Q.   Did they explain to you why they wanted money before they

23     released him?  Did they accuse him for anything?

24        A.   Yes.  They said, Give us money or else we will kill Ismet.  We

25     gave them what we had, 200 Deutschemarks.  They released Ismet.  He left

Page 3049

 1     the tractor and came to the trailer where we were.  We covered him with

 2     mattresses.  After some time, I don't know when exactly, but another

 3     group of policemen came, four policemen, one of them was --

 4        Q.   If I could stop you there for a moment, sorry, Ms. Xhafa.  Just

 5     before you go ahead to the second group, you have described that these

 6     people were policemen.  But could you describe them a little bit further.

 7     Could you give a more detailed description of how they looked, where they

 8     were, and what they looked like.

 9        A.   They had blue camouflage uniform.

10        Q.   And is it on this basis that you were sure that they were

11     policemen or what?

12        A.   They also had weapons on them.

13        Q.   They also had weapons.  Could you see the weapons, which kind of

14     weapons they were wearing?

15        A.   I don't remember what kind of weapons they had, but they did have

16     weapons.

17        Q.   Did they have any vehicles they were driving?

18        A.   No, this group didn't.  This group was on foot.

19        Q.   All right.  And after Ismet was released and you had -- and your

20     brother had paid them 200 Deutschemarks, did you do anything with Ismet

21     after this event to prevent anything like that should happen again or --

22     explain that.

23        A.   Yes.  We placed Ismet on the trailer, covered him with

24     mattresses.  We sat around him so he couldn't be seen.  He was covered in

25     the trailer.

Page 3050

 1        Q.   Thank you.  And before I interrupted you, you were about to

 2     explain to us about the second group.  Can you please go on.  Thank you.

 3        A.   The second group came, a group of four or more policemen that

 4     were nearby.  Perhaps there were more in the vicinity, but four policemen

 5     came to the place where we were.  He started to beat him with a thick

 6     wooden stick on both his shoulders.  My father begged them to release

 7     him.  They spoke in Serbian.  My father came back and told us that they

 8     again asked for money, otherwise they were going to kill Jetish.  We

 9     didn't have money.  At that stage, my sister-in-law Hamide gave them all

10     her golden jewellery.

11        Q.   Could you please describe this person that you said was beating

12     Jetish with this wooden stick.

13        A.   They were all dressed in blue camouflage uniforms with the

14     exception of the person who was beating Jetish.  He also wore a blue

15     camouflage uniforms but he had a flak jacket, a green camouflage flak

16     jacket.

17        Q.   And did you -- do you remember anything else about this man, how

18     he looked, could you describe that in that case?

19        A.   I remember him.  He was tall.  He was -- he had this wooden stick

20     in his hands.  He was blond.

21        Q.   Thank you.  After this group of policemen had left, were you

22     approached by several or another group after this?

23        A.   Yes.  After the first left, those who beat up Jetish, we were

24     discussing whether to leave the tractor and walk on foot or to take the

25     tractor.  I don't know how long that lasted.  Then another group came.

Page 3051

 1     It was a group of six policemen.

 2        Q.   And now we are talking about this third group; is that correct?

 3        A.   Yes, this is the third group.  Two of them were wearing masks.

 4     The four came near to the trailer and directed his arm to my mother.

 5     Then they put the weapon to Jetish's head and then they fired.

 6        Q.   Did they ask for any money in advance before they did this?

 7        A.   No, they didn't.  This group didn't ask for any money.  They

 8     simply shot Jetish.  Then my father knew that it was dangerous.  He went

 9     near them, said something to them, they didn't retort back.  After they

10     fired their weapon, I went to my father and wanted to make him come out

11     of the trailer.  He spoke something in Serbian.  I don't know what he

12     said.  They came back and took my father with them, and then we heard the

13     shots because I turned my head on the other side.  Couldn't look at it.

14     I heard a cry from my father.  He simply cried, and then when I looked I

15     saw that both of them were shot.

16        Q.   And what was the consequence of this shooting Jetish, did he

17     survive or did he die?

18        A.   We thought that Jetish was dead, but he is still alive to this

19     day.  He escaped death.

20        Q.   But you didn't know these things back then, did you?

21        A.   No.  At that moment we didn't think that he was alive because he

22     was fired at in the head, but he's still alive.  But we heard of that

23     only after a few days.  We got the news that he was still alive.

24        Q.   And what about your father?

25        A.   My father died.

Page 3052

 1        Q.   And after both your brother and father was shot, what did your

 2     family do next?

 3        A.   They ordered us to leave that place, those policemen that were

 4     round the trailer.  Ismet was the oldest of the males, but we were afraid

 5     they would shoot him so it was Lavdim who was 13 years old, my brother's

 6     son, and I asked him to drive the tractor.  But he was very scared, and

 7     he didn't know how to drive the tractor.

 8             A policeman came by, came close, and he beat him with the butt of

 9     his gun, ordering him to drive on.  Another policeman who was close by

10     said to him in Albanian -- started to teach him in Albanian how to drive

11     the tractor, and then he started using the first gear.  We drove for some

12     100 metres or so.

13        Q.   What would you estimate the time to be approximately now,

14     Ms. Xhafa, when you stopped the tractor?

15        A.   I think it must have been 11.00 --

16        Q.   In the evening --

17        A.   -- I am not sure -- at night.  I can't be precise.

18        Q.   And we know that -- from your statement, that you eventually

19     decided to send Ismet away to inform KLA about the events.  Could you

20     please tell the Court about this.

21        A.   Yes.  At that moment we decided to quit the tractor and to

22     continue on foot.  All of us descended from the tractor.  Ismet was with

23     us and then we went on walking, trying to hide behind tractors, until we

24     joined a group of people.  The crowd was at the entrance of

25     Studime i Ulet.  We joined these people, as I said.  On the way until we

Page 3053

 1     reached this group of people, we passed over dead bodies.  We saw also my

 2     cousin Veli Xhafa.  We saw he was killed on the tractor.  Then we passed

 3     by some other corpses, all people lying on the floor.

 4             We saw a young guy who was injured and he was asking for help but

 5     we were scared to go and administer some help to him.  Then on the way we

 6     saw a very young boy.  I don't know whether he came from a tractor or so

 7     that he wanted to join us; but at that moment he was shot by the police,

 8     and I saw that he was frozen in a way let's say there.  We couldn't turn

 9     our heads and look what happened, but I saw that he was there.

10             Then we joined the crowd of people.  There were no police there

11     and all the members of my family agreed that Ismet go and join the KLA.

12     Two other people joined Ismet and together they crossed the street and

13     went in the direction of a mountain.

14        Q.   And after you had sent Ismet away to inform the KLA units, did

15     any other group of Serb forces approach you after this on your way to

16     Vushtrri?

17        A.   Yes, after a while they came by a military vehicle, I don't know,

18     combat vehicle I think.  And then they stopped by and ordered us to stay

19     there until they ordered us to go towards Vushtrri.  During that time,

20     they pushed us.  They wanted us to shout, to hail, Slobo Draza KLA,

21     during the time we were there, staying on that field.

22        Q.   And what would this mean, Slobo Draza?

23        A.   Slobo meant Slobodan Milosevic at that time.

24        Q.   And Draza?

25        A.   Draza I think was the name of a former Serb gang that fought in

Page 3054

 1     the past.  This is what Draza and his gang did.  I think that was a name

 2     that they ordered us to shout out loud.

 3        Q.   And did you do this, did you shout out loud?

 4        A.   Yes, some people did because they were afraid of being shot at by

 5     the police.  They shouted Slobo's and Draza's name.  When they ordered

 6     them to shout KLA, they didn't.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  Did you continue your way to Vushtrri by tractor?

 8        A.   No, we were walking.  We joined that group of people, and then we

 9     were ordered to leave for Vushtrri.  They ordered us to walk on the edge

10     of the road, and this is what we did until we arrived in Vushtrri.  Then

11     they ordered us to go to the courtyard of an agricultural co-operative

12     there.  This is where we stayed that night.  It was 2.00 in the morning

13     when we arrived there --

14        Q.   Let me stop you a moment there.  So you had to leave your tractor

15     with all your belongings behind; is that correct?

16        A.   Yes, that's correct.

17        Q.   And -- excuse me, then you came to this co-operative or

18     agricultural co-operative building at night.  What was the situation

19     there like when you arrived?  Could you just describe that briefly.

20        A.   Yes, it was a very large group of people there.  There were

21     elderly people, children, maybe also some injured.  We could hear moans,

22     cries, people shouting, some were thirsty.  It was like a horror night

23     for me.  We stayed there until the next day.

24        Q.   And what happened the next day, the next morning?

25        A.   On the next morning a group of policemen came there, and they

Page 3055

 1     started to separate the males from their families.

 2        Q.   And -- sorry, they separated the males from the families and the

 3     age you were told was between 15 and 60; is that correct?

 4        A.   Yes, that's correct.  Yes, all the males aged 15 to 60, they were

 5     set aside on the other side of the courtyard.  They came also to my

 6     family and started to take Mirsad , Jetish's son; my brother Fazli; Sami;

 7     uncle Muharrem.

 8        Q.   And did they all have to go to the prison there and then?

 9        A.   No.  During that time when they were being separated, my uncle

10     Muharrem saw our neighbour dressed in uniform.  We lived in the same

11     village, Biba.  He came by and my uncle said to him what happened to us

12     in Studime.  He helped us, so he saved the males of my family from being

13     sent to prison.

14        Q.   And this prison, I understand it's -- it was located in

15     Smrekovnica.  Where did you learn those men had to go there?  Did anyone

16     tell you that the men had to go to prison in Smrekovnica?

17        A.   When they were separating the males and tell -- asking them to

18     get on the trucks, there was a truck there.  And after a while, the truck

19     came back to get another load of men.  So we heard someone said that all

20     these men are being taken to Smrekonica prison.

21        Q.   Thank you.  And what happened to you and your family after your

22     uncle, Muharrem, managed to get the men released?  What did you do and

23     where did you go?

24        A.   They ordered us.  There was a policeman there, the one who gave

25     the orders.  Someone in the group said that his name was Simic.  He

Page 3056

 1     ordered us to leave.  Those who didn't have a tractor, he said, Go to --

 2     back to Smrekonica or Doberlluka village.  The others who had tractors

 3     should continue their way and leave for Albania.

 4        Q.   This Simic, the name of this person, could you just describe him?

 5     You said he was a Serb policeman, but what made you so sure about that?

 6        A.   He had the police uniform on, the green camouflage --

 7             THE INTERPRETER:  Correction.

 8             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] -- blue camouflage uniform.  He was

 9     rather stout with a moustache.  This is what I recall of him.

10             MS. NILSEN:

11        Q.   Did you hear anything from others who this person was, what

12     position he had, and his occupation?

13        A.   I don't remember more than that about this man.

14        Q.   But you were then sent to or you travelled to Kicic, where you

15     were accommodated.  How long did you stay there with your family?

16        A.   Kiciq is the name of the village.

17        Q.   Sorry.

18        A.   At that time, we did what we were ordered to.  We chose this

19     Kiciq village.  My mother was suffering from heart disease, so she got on

20     the tractor of her brother and she left for Albania, whereas we went back

21     to Kiciq, went to an empty house where we stayed from the 3rd of March to

22     the 7th of March in that house, after which time the family that owned

23     that house returned and asked us to free it.  So we went to Doberlluka

24     village, where we stayed until the end of the war.

25        Q.   In your statement you have explained about the unit who came to

Page 3057

 1     your house in Dobra Luka.  Can you please explain to the Court what

 2     actually happened when they came.

 3        A.   Yes, it was the morning of, I think, the 15th or 16th of May.

 4     They ordered us to come out.  Again, they took away the males and ordered

 5     us to go to Smrekonica, to a health clinic to get a sort of card.  It was

 6     I think a kind of certificate on which it was written name, last name,

 7     date of birth, place of residence, and where we were staying.

 8        Q.   And where did you have to go to obtain this certificate?

 9        A.   Smrekonica.  It was what we say -- we call it a health house word

10     for word.

11        Q.   And what happened to the men in your family?

12        A.   They were taken away.  They were ordered to bring out of their

13     pockets all the money they had on them, and then they were sent to

14     prison.  After a while, they released Uncle Muharrem, whereas the others

15     they kept in jail.  And after two weeks, they were sent to Albania.

16        Q.   Thank you.  Did you get any information of the reason why you had

17     to go and register and to obtain this certificate?  Did you get any

18     reason for it?

19        A.   I don't know.  That was the order given to us, but I don't know

20     the reason why.

21             MS. NILSEN:  If I could please ask the usher to put up 65 ter --

22     or it's a P number now.  The previous 65 ter number 02274, the witness

23     statement.  I apologise, I don't have the P number, 509.  Thank you.  And

24     it will be page 8 and 9.  If we can get both pages up at the same time.

25     If we could please have this zoomed in as much as possible, especially

Page 3058

 1     the -- yes, the page 8.  The page that we see on the left, usher, would

 2     that be number 9, it should be a -- yeah, thank you.  This should be an

 3     English translation of this certificate and not the Albanian translation.

 4     Thank you.  Is it possible to have the English translation on one page

 5     and the Albanian version where we have the text on the other side?  Sorry

 6     if I was vague to this.  So I don't need the Albanian version of the page

 7     where there is no text.  Yes.  Thank you.  Perfect.  If you can just zoom

 8     out -- zoom in this text page.

 9        Q.   Ms. Xhafa, do you recognise the document to the left here?

10        A.   Yes.

11        Q.   Are you able to describe what this is?

12        A.   This is a kind of certificate on notification of the place we

13     were staying and then other data, name, last name, date of birth.

14        Q.   Was this a certificate that was issued to you or similar?

15        A.   No.  I have brought the certificate of my niece, my brother's

16     sister.  I have a similar one here.  If you need, I can show you my

17     personal one.

18        Q.   Well, would your personal certificate look exactly like this one

19     except for the names and the birth dates and other information, personal

20     information?

21        A.   It is identical, only it contains my personal data.

22        Q.   Thank you.  And the name of this, is the -- can you just tell us

23     what the name of your niece which is described here according to you.

24        A.   Fetije Xhafa.

25        Q.   Are you able, Ms. Xhafa, to see what is written on the stamp?  I

Page 3059

 1     know it's pretty vague, but I don't know if we can zoom it any more than

 2     this.  The other side.  The stamp at -- yes.  Thank you.

 3        A.   Yes.  It says:  "Republic of Serbia" then "Belgrade."

 4        Q.   And who issued this registration card for you?  Who did you

 5     obtain it from?

 6        A.   There were some people who worked in that office.  There were

 7     three offices that issued such cards.  My card was signed by

 8     Snjezana Bogunovic, a neighbour of ours, but the order was given to us by

 9     the police to go and obtain such certificate.

10        Q.   And the information that we have on the card --

11             MS. NILSEN:  If we can just zoom out again.

12        Q.   Can you just briefly explain to us what it says.  We have a

13     translated version, but just for the record so that you can tell us.

14     First of all, I would like you to tell us the date of the card if that is

15     correct.

16        A.   First is the name and the last name, Fetije Xhafa, then the date

17     of birth, 15th-9-78, then I think it's the name of the place where we

18     lived before, in Svracak, then the commune or municipality, Vucitrn.

19     Then it reads:  Republic of Serbia, then here Dobra Luka, the place where

20     we were staying, and it's a signature and the date that this certificate

21     was issued.

22        Q.   And the date would be?

23        A.   16th May, 1999.

24        Q.   Ms. Xhafa, you have told us about your observations when your

25     father was shot and killed and how your brother also was shot.  You have

Page 3060

 1     also told us that you passed other bodies on your way to Vushtrri in the

 2     convoy.  Did you see anyone else being killed or shot during this period

 3     you have told us about, either before or during or after you entered the

 4     convoy?

 5        A.   Yes.  On the road from the place where we left our tractor and

 6     where we joined the convoy, through this part of the journey we came

 7     across many corpses.  We saw an old man who had been killed, his horses

 8     had been killed too, relative Veli was killed in a tractor, then a young

 9     man was wounded and was asking for help.  Then there was another young

10     man who wanted to join us but who was shot and we didn't dare look back

11     to see what happened to him.  So we came across many corpses.

12        Q.   But did you actually see any of these executions or it was

13     afterwards that you saw them they were wounded or dead?

14        A.   No, they had already been killed, with the exception of this

15     young boy who wanted to join us.  He was alive.  We only heard the

16     gun-shot, but we didn't look back to see what happened to him.

17        Q.   Except from your cousin, I believe it was, who were killed on the

18     tractor and your father, do you have -- are you able to mention any names

19     of the people who were killed who you mention you saw were dead?

20        A.   During this part of the journey, I only knew Veli Xhafa, a

21     relative of mine who had been killed, not the others.

22        Q.   Thank you.  After the massacre in Studime, where you have

23     explained to us quite detailed, did you at any time ever see or recognise

24     any of the perpetrators again in a later stage?

25        A.   The person who beat Jetish, I saw him again on the night of the

Page 3061

 1     2nd of May at the entrance to Vushtrri.  Then again, I saw him on the

 2     15th of May when they came and ordered us to get these certificates that

 3     I spoke about.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  And the men in your family and the rest that you told

 5     about who were imprisoned in Smrekovnica, when were these people

 6     released, when were these men released from the prison; do you know that?

 7        A.   We didn't know then, but later we found out that they had been

 8     released and sent to Albania.

 9        Q.   Did they tell you how they were treated there in the prison?

10        A.   They did tell us about what they had gone through.  They told us

11     that there was hardly any place for them to sleep.  They were tortured in

12     different ways.

13        Q.   Thank you.

14             MS. NILSEN:  Your Honours, I think it's time for us to take our

15     break now.

16             JUDGE PARKER:  Do you propose to tender this certificate?

17             MS. NILSEN:  I will, Your Honours.  As it is already tendered as

18     a part of the statement in P509 --

19             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

20             MS. NILSEN:  -- I'm not going to ask to tender it again, this is

21     the last pages of it.

22             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

23             MS. NILSEN:  After the break, Your Honours, I would like the

24     witness to point out some specific villages on the map, and that will be

25     my last questions for her.

Page 3062

 1             JUDGE PARKER:  We will resume at quarter past 4.00.

 2                           --- Recess taken at 3.45 p.m.

 3                           --- On resuming at 4.18 p.m.

 4             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, Ms. Nilsen.

 5             MS. NILSEN:  Thank you, Your Honours.

 6        Q.   I have a couple questions more before I go ahead with the map.

 7             Ms. Xhafa, when you allegedly returned back to your home village

 8     after the war ended, do you remember which date this was?

 9        A.   It was two weeks after Vushtrri was liberated.  The NATO forces

10     entered Kosova on the 16th of June, so we returned to our house two weeks

11     later.  Our house was burnt down, and we lived in another house nearby.

12        Q.   Yes, that was the next question I was going to ask you, which

13     conditions the village was in when you returned.  Was all the houses

14     burnt down?

15        A.   All the houses were burnt down.

16        Q.   And you said there were both Kosovo Albanians and other

17     ethnicities who lived in this village, or did I get you correct there?

18        A.   You're right, yes.

19        Q.   So the houses from the other ethnicities was also burnt when you

20     returned?

21        A.   The Serb houses were not -- were not burnt down.

22        Q.   Thank you.

23             MS. NILSEN:  I see my learned friend is on his feet.

24             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic.

25             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Right now there's no point in

Page 3063

 1     objecting.  In response to the question as to what the situation the

 2     village was, the witness said all the houses were burned; and then the

 3     next question stated:  Serbian houses, Serb houses.  I don't think that

 4     was right, and the witness had given the answer that she had given.

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  But the point, Mr. Djurdjic, is that we are

 6     seeking to learn the truthful evidence of the witness.  Witnesses often

 7     misunderstand questions and give answers that may not be correct, and

 8     there has to be an opportunity to be sure with that witness that the

 9     answer they've given is the correct one.  The same is applied in many of

10     your questions.  Now, it can be fully appreciated that there will be

11     times it will be important not to suggest in any way an answer to a

12     witness and to let the witness express themselves, but on a matter like

13     this, the answer was simply "yes."  And the next question has shown that

14     the witness misunderstood the question, by understanding the question to

15     be limited to non-Serb houses.

16             Thank you, Ms. Nilsen.

17             MS. NILSEN:  Thank you.

18        Q.   And just one last question, Ms. Xhafa.  You said that there were

19     ten households in this village of yours.  Did you then refer -- did you

20     the refer to the Kosovo Albanian households or did you refer to all the

21     households together, included the Serbian households?

22        A.   The village had both Albanian and Serbian households.  The houses

23     that were near my house were Serbian.  There were three Serbian houses

24     near my house.  My village is quite big.  The other Serb houses are

25     further from my house.

Page 3064

 1        Q.   Okay.  Thank you.  Maybe I didn't make myself clear.  I just

 2     referred to what I asked you in the very beginning of this testimony when

 3     I asked you the number of houses in the village and you replied "ten."

 4     Is this the correct total amount of houses in the village where you were

 5     from?

 6        A.   No, I was referring to the ten Serbian houses.

 7        Q.   And how many Kosovo Albanian houses would there be, Ms. Xhafa?

 8        A.   More than Serbian households.  I think there were about

 9     80 Albanian households at the time.

10        Q.   Okay.  Thank you so much.

11             MS. NILSEN:  Then I would like the usher to put up the

12     65 ter number 05244 which is the Kosovo map of Vushtrri municipality.

13     And if you could please zoom in on the area to the east of Vushtrri town,

14     and which the town would be included also into this.  Thank you.  Are you

15     able to zoom in a little bit further?  Thank you.

16        Q.   Ms. Xhafa, I don't know if you can see this.  It's small letters,

17     but I hope you are able to read it.  What I would like you to do is

18     this -- as you see, this is the municipality of Vushtrri.

19             MS. NILSEN:  I would like first of all if she can have a pen,

20     please --

21        Q.   Point out your place of origin, the village where you're from,

22     and draw a circle around it and put a number 1 next to it.

23             MS. NILSEN:  If it's difficult for the witness to reach the

24     screen.  I don't know.

25             THE WITNESS:  [Marks]

Page 3065

 1             MS. NILSEN:

 2        Q.   Thank you.  This will be --

 3        A.   I think I made a mistake.  I didn't see it very well.  It should

 4     be this one.

 5        Q.   That's fine.  And that will be the village that was formerly

 6     called Saracak i Ulet.

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  Perhaps the court officer can erase the first

 8     circle.

 9             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Saracak i Ulet, my village.

10             MS. NILSEN:

11        Q.   Thank you.

12             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.

13             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] No objections, Your Honour.  I got

14     an excellent map, hard copy from the OTP, and this is precisely reflected

15     on that map.  So I suggest that we give this to the witness.  It will be

16     much easier for the witness to mark this and much easier than watching

17     this on our screens.  I think it's going to be a lot more difficult if we

18     do it on the screens.  You see this map, it's an excellent map; and I

19     think it would be much better for the Trial Chamber, a really good map.

20             JUDGE PARKER:  I think it's what's called a military ordnance

21     map, good detail.

22             Ms. Nilsen, do you think use of the paper copy of the map would

23     be better?

24             MS. NILSEN:  Yes, Your Honour.  I don't know if it would be

25     better, but we can certainly use it if it's -- I dont' have -- the thing

Page 3066

 1     is, I don't have a blank unannotated map left after I gave the last one

 2     to my learned colleague.  But I am also sure that the witness will be

 3     able to draw this on the screen.  So far so good, so I would suggest it's

 4     up to Your Honours.

 5                           [Trial Chamber confers]

 6                           [Prosecution counsel confer]

 7             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I do apologise, Your Honour, it's

 8     the same map like the one that's on the screen.

 9                           [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]

10             MS. NILSEN:  Your Honours, if I can just ...

11             JUDGE PARKER:  Carry on, Ms. Nilsen, with what you're doing.  We

12     don't have spare paper copies of the map.

13             MS. NILSEN:  Thank you.

14             JUDGE PARKER:  It's a little unfortunate that what we have on the

15     screens is not as clear as the original, but carry on and --

16             MS. NILSEN:  I agree with you.

17             JUDGE PARKER:  -- and let us hope that the witness can pick up

18     the area sufficiently.

19             MS. NILSEN:  I agree with you, it's unfortunate, but we will see

20     if we can do our best.

21        Q.   Then I will ask you, Ms. Xhafa, if you could please draw a line

22     between Saracak i Ulet, or your home village, and Dumnica, where you

23     spent your first night after you fled from your home village.  Just draw

24     a line between these two places and circle around Dumnica, like you did

25     with the first, and put a number 2 on Dumnica, please.

Page 3067

 1        A.   This is my village.  We started our journey here.  We passed

 2     through Maxhuni neighbour, through Vijance [phoen], then passed through

 3     the Dumnica road; and we spent a night somewhere here.

 4        Q.   In Dumnica.  And then I would like you to point out Samodreza

 5     village where you have told you went afterwards spent a short while, half

 6     an hour or so before you went further.  If you could draw another line

 7     and put a number 3 around Samodreza.

 8        A.   The following day we continued our journey.  We passed through

 9     Dumnica e Eperme, through these hills, here and proceeded to Samadrexha.

10        Q.   Thank you.  And then I would like to go on with the next place

11     you have told us you fled to where you said you spent five weeks in

12     Vesekoc.  If you also put a line from number 3 and up to here.

13        A.   From Samadrexha we passed through Ceceli, Sllakovc.  I cannot see

14     the road --

15             MS. NILSEN:  If we can get the usher maybe to scroll down the map

16     a little bit just so that it's --

17        A.   Just a moment, please.

18        Q.   If you cannot see Vesekoc, it's fine.  You can just leave it for

19     you and --

20        A.   It cannot be seen.

21        Q.   Then if you want to -- if you know the approximate area, you can

22     just put the ring around because you have told us that you went from

23     there to Sllakovc.  Do you see Sllakovc?

24        A.   [No interpretation]

25        Q.   Could you draw a line up to Sllakovc and put a ring and number 5

Page 3068

 1     there.

 2        A.   I think I should put a 4.

 3        Q.   Sorry, yes, put a 4.  Thank you.

 4        A.   [Marks]

 5        Q.   And this will be Sllakovc, right?

 6        A.   We passed Sllakovc, then another village, and then we arrived in

 7     Vesekoc.  But you cannot see Vesekoc on the map; it's further up.

 8        Q.   It's further up.  Okay.  So after you went from Vesekoc you went

 9     to Sllakovc, and from there you joined the convoy that you have told us

10     about.  Can you see Studime in this map?

11        A.   Yes, you can see it.

12        Q.   Can you draw a line to Studime and put a circle with a 5 around

13     that.

14        A.   After we joined the convoy, we followed a road that was close to

15     Ceceli, and from there we arrived at Studime e Eperme.  And from there,

16     we continued our journey and stopped somewhere between the two Studimes,

17     the Upper and Lower Studime.

18        Q.   You also told us that you were informed about a place where the

19     Serb forces had taken up positions.  Could you see if you can find that.

20     It should be according to what you said in Saracak e Eperme.  Are you

21     able to see that on the map?  Maybe draw a circle around that, with a

22     letter A around that.  If you don't see, that's fine.

23        A.   They were, on the hills of Saracak e Eperme on the Studime side

24     and on the other side, they were in a neighbourhood, Llazoviq

25     neighbourhood, which is on the road.

Page 3069

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Now, from Studime you have told us that you went to

 2     the outskirts of Vushtrri.  Could you please -- where you went to for one

 3     night and then the men were separated from the rest, the women.  Are you

 4     able to just to draw a ring around approximately where this agricultural

 5     co-operative centre were and put a number 7 around it, I believe it will

 6     be number 7.

 7        A.   We continued our journey.  The agricultural co-operative facility

 8     is near Vushtrri.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  And then if you could also draw a circle around the

10     place where this prison were placed in Smrekonica and put a number -- the

11     letter B there where you were told that the men were sent to.

12        A.   [Marks]

13        Q.   Thank you.  And then you have told us that you went from the

14     agricultural co-operative centre to Kicic - I'm not very good at

15     pronouncing it - you went there and spent a couple of nights or some days

16     there.  Could you please draw another line from Vushtrri to Kicic,

17     please, and just put a number 8 in that ring.

18        A.   [Marks]

19        Q.   Thank you.  And the last line I want you to draw goes from Kicic

20     to Dobra Luka, where you told us you spent the rest of your time until

21     the war ended and you could return to your home town.  Could you please

22     draw another line and circle around Dobra Luka and put a number 9 in it,

23     please.

24        A.   [Marks]

25        Q.   Thank you.  And the place where you told us that you had to go

Page 3070

 1     and register when you stayed in Dobra Luka, that was in Smrekovnica; is

 2     that correct?

 3        A.   Yes.

 4        Q.   So the very same place as the prison was established also?

 5        A.   Yes.

 6        Q.   Thank you.

 7             MS. NILSEN:  Your Honour, I seek to tender this annotated map

 8     into evidence.

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, it will be received.

10             MS. NILSEN:  Thank you.

11             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be Exhibit P511, Your Honours.

12             MS. NILSEN:  Thank you, Your Honours.  And I have no further

13     questions for the witness.

14             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you very much, Ms. Nilsen.

15             Mr. Djurdjic, do you have cross-examination?

16             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

17                           Cross-examination by Mr. Djurdjic:

18        Q.   [Interpretation] My name is Veljko Djurdjic.  I am a member of

19     the Defence team of the accused, Vlastimir Djordjevic.  Together with me

20     today is Ms. Marie O'Leary, she is also a member of our team.  And since

21     we do not speak the same language and interpretation is produced in a

22     variety of languages, I would like to ask you to wait for me to finish my

23     question and then give me your answer.  First of all, if you do not

24     understand a question, please let me know and I will try to rephrase it.

25     Secondly, I would like you to answer only about the events that you

Page 3071

 1     yourself were an eye-witness of, things that you have direct knowledge

 2     of, and could you please indicate when your knowledge is not first-hand.

 3             I would like to start with what you said today.  And it appears

 4     to me that there are some discrepancies between what you said today and

 5     your previous statement, so I would like us to clear that up.

 6             On two occasions you spoke about leaving the tractor.  You said

 7     that you -- when you left the tractor that you saw many bodies, including

 8     the body of your relative in -- on the tractor.  Since this is in the

 9     transcript, could you please tell me if this is a description of the same

10     event but you only gave -- gave it twice; is that so?

11        A.   It is the same event, and I have described it earlier.

12        Q.   Thank you.  In the statement that you gave in 2000 and 2001,

13     there is no mention of Veli Xhafa, your relative, or indeed of the other

14     persons that you saw as you headed towards Donja Sudimlja on foot.  Could

15     you please explain to me, why is there this discrepancy?

16        A.   It is impossible that I did not mention everything that occurred

17     that night.  I have probably mentioned it in my statement of 2006.

18        Q.   Ms. Fedrije, that's in paragraph 5 through 11, including this

19     statement, the consolidated statement that was given in 2006.  It's not

20     there.  Let me make this as precise as possible.  This is not about the

21     first, second, and the third group of policemen and events that involved

22     you on the tractor; it's when you left the tractor and when you headed

23     towards Donja Sudimlja on foot.

24        A.   Lower Studime, Studime e Ulet.  I have already mentioned it in my

25     statement of 2006 when I spoke about the event involving my cousin, but I

Page 3072

 1     saw that the name of my cousin was changed, Emin instead of Veli Xhafa.

 2     But I think I made the correction.  It was the person of Veli Xhafa, my

 3     relative.

 4        Q.   Well, I can't find it now.  Let us move on and then once we've

 5     analysed it we'll be able to pin-point it.  Now, you were shown the

 6     certificate of residence.  The date is the 16th of May, 1992.  In this

 7     certificate, is there anything that is not true?

 8        A.   I have given all my personal data in an accurate manner.

 9        Q.   Yes, well that's what I wanted you to say.  Your personal details

10     are correct.  The place where you had residence, Donji Svrakovci, you

11     were a resident of Donji Svrakovci; am I right?

12        A.   The place where we lived, the place where we were staying at that

13     time, these were the data that we provided and -- as well as other data,

14     like the name, last name, date of birth, the municipality.

15        Q.   Thank you.  And you will agree with me that all the details are

16     correct, the details that you provided that are contained in the

17     certificate?

18        A.   My personal data are correct, the ones we saw earlier in that

19     certificate.  All the details were accurate, were correct.

20        Q.   Thank you.  Mrs. Fedrije, could you please explain to me why you

21     had to leave the tractor on the road between Gornja and Donja Sudimlja.

22        A.   All those people who -- that were on the tractors thought that it

23     was more dangerous to stay on the tractors; therefore, we all decided to

24     get off the tractors and continue to walk on foot and join the other

25     people.  That's why we also left the tractor, our tractor, and walked on

Page 3073

 1     trying to hide behind tractors on the way, because there were many empty

 2     tractors on the way and everybody was walking.

 3        Q.   Ms. Fedrije, I think that you changed your statement in the

 4     statements that you made before.  The problem was that who would drive

 5     the tractor and -- because your cousin was driving the tractor, he got

 6     scared, and then you got off the tractor.  And you didn't say that the

 7     other people in the column had left their tractors, quite the contrary,

 8     they went on on tractors and some of them even travelled as far as

 9     Albania in those tractors.

10        A.   I'm talking about the time we were in the column in Studime.

11     After my father was -- and my brother were shot, Ismet was in hiding.  We

12     didn't dare ask Ismet to drive the tractor.  That's why his son, Lavdim,

13     13 years old, started to drive because the police told us to leave the

14     place where the shooting occurred.  Lavdim drove the tractor for some

15     100 metres I think.  After that, we decided to get off the tractor and

16     walk on foot.  This is what we did until we joined a group of people who

17     were somewhere at the entrance to Studime e Ulet.

18        Q.   Thank you.  In your evidence today you said that since you were

19     in the village of Veskovce, you said, Since we were surrounded we had to

20     leave the village.  What did you mean by that, surrounded from all sides?

21        A.   When I was in Vesekovc we felt safe there because it was

22     protected by the KLA.  But after that time, when we had to leave the

23     place, going to Velenice, we were informed that the defence line was

24     broken in that village, in Velenice, therefore the population had to flee

25     because the danger was coming near.  We didn't want something bad to

Page 3074

 1     happen to us.  Therefore, the population had to return back to Sllakovc.

 2        Q.   Thank you.  In paragraph 9 you added today the military, so not

 3     only the police but the military too.  You had not mentioned the military

 4     before.  Do you make a distinction, or rather, did you make a distinction

 5     between the military and the police at that time?

 6        A.   Yes, I knew the people who were dressed in green uniform belonged

 7     to the army, but at that time there were also people who were using

 8     vehicles and they were also green vehicles, which I think belonged to the

 9     army.

10        Q.   Thank you.  Well, if you had seen such uniforms, would you have

11     said that you had actually seen the army, the military?

12        A.   Yes, I would.

13        Q.   Thank you.

14             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Now I would like us to get on our

15     screens Defence document D002-5250.

16        Q.   Mrs. Fedrije, could you please mark the uniform that you saw on

17     the police officers.

18        A.   It doesn't seem clear to me.  Maybe you can make it a little bit

19     bigger and the colours would be clearer.  This one here?

20        Q.   Yes, yes.  Please go ahead, and thank you.  Since you mentioned

21     the army today, could you please mark the uniform that you saw them

22     wearing.

23        A.   I didn't pay any attention.  I know that the colour was green,

24     but I'm not sure which camouflage colour is the one that I had in mind.

25     I know it was green, but I'm not sure which of them they were wearing

Page 3075

 1     that night.

 2        Q.   Thank you.  In paragraph 9 you made a change today.  You said

 3     that there was a group of policemen there -- let me just check if that's

 4     paragraph 9.  And in your earlier statement - let me just find it, and I

 5     do apologise -- no, it's actually in paragraph 5, I'm sorry.  So in

 6     paragraph 5 you said a large group of police officers, and in the

 7     statement, the latest consolidated statement of 2006, the exact number

 8     that you provided was four policemen.  So how come there is this

 9     difference?

10        A.   It's not any change.  Number 4 refers to the first group that

11     approached our tractor.  At 9.00 another group came and that was a very

12     large group.

13        Q.   Well, Madam, this is what I'm reading.  It says in your statement

14     at around 2400 [as interpreted] hours four police officers came, so

15     that's what I'm talking about.  And today you say a large group of

16     policemen came.

17        A.   At 2100 there was a very large group of policemen who came and

18     ordered us to get on the tractor.  Then when we were on the tractor,

19     another group of four policemen approached our tractor.

20        Q.   Thank you.  And how far were the other policemen from that group

21     of four men who were next to you?

22        A.   They walked on the road.  When they gave us the order to get on

23     the tractor, that group was walking along the way.  And they ordered us

24     that all the drivers get on the tractors.  And everyone went to his or

25     her tractor.  We went to ours.  We got on the tractor.  Then came the

Page 3076

 1     other group of four policemen who came near our tractor.  I didn't pay

 2     any attention to the other policemen, where they went, but I'm talking of

 3     the first group that came to the tractor.

 4        Q.   Thank you.

 5             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I would like to

 6     tender the previous document into evidence, the one with the uniforms.

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  The photograph showing samples of camouflage will

 8     be received.

 9                           [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]

10             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, the marked photograph will be

11     Exhibit D68.

12             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Now, if we could get on our

13     screens -- it's a 65 ter -- 65 ter document of the Prosecution, 5244,

14     that's the number.  Could you please scroll down a little bit.

15             JUDGE PARKER:  I think that's the total map on the screen.

16             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Yes, but a little while ago it

17     was -- I would like us to look at the northern part that the witness

18     couldn't draw into the map.

19             JUDGE PARKER:  I don't think that's on this map.

20             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Bajgora, yes, you can see it

21     up there.  Now we can see the northern part but now we don't have the

22     lower part.  Could you please zoom out a little bit.  Can we -- yes,

23     okay.  We can see Gornja Sudimlja, but we don't see Donja Dubnica, we see

24     Cecelija.  Well, we can't get what we need on this map obviously.

25             JUDGE PARKER:  It's all there now, but you won't be able to see

Page 3077

 1     it all I'm afraid because it's not distinct enough.

 2             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

 3        Q.   Mrs. Fedrije, are you able to read this or not?

 4        A.   Until now I have been able to, but maybe you can zoom it out a

 5     little bit more.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  Mrs. Fedrije, now, if you can -- but we have

 7     Dobra Luka, but we don't have the lower part.

 8             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could you please zoom out and then

 9     we will see how far we can get.  If we can't do it, we'll just leave that

10     alone.

11        Q.   I would now like you to mark in one colour the places that you

12     went through on your route from your village, Donji Svracak, am I right.

13     If you could just take a pen and just underline --

14             JUDGE PARKER:  Are you asking the witness to mark those nine

15     places again?

16             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Yes, but now I would like us to

17     look at the route she took on the way out and also the route that she may

18     have taken on the route back.  We don't have Leskovac, we have all the

19     way up to Slakovce, but not Leskovac.  And up there we have the locations

20     that the witness is talking about, and I wanted her to indicate those

21     locations and to ask her if she knew about that.

22             I agree that this is a small-scale map and that it will be

23     difficult, but the witness says that she can do it.  I can see it

24     perfectly well on the big map that I have in my hands; but to be quite

25     frank, I couldn't do it on the small map.

Page 3078

 1             JUDGE PARKER:  I don't understand why you're doing it.  Is there

 2     a particular location you want her to mark that has not been marked or is

 3     there a particular part of the route that you want marked that hasn't

 4     been marked?

 5             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour -- well, the

 6     witness -- this northern part that you can't see, you can't see the

 7     village of Leskovac where she spent several weeks and -- well I don't

 8     want to go into that now.  I will be asking her about that later.  But I

 9     will be asking her questions, but we can't use this exhibit.  Thank you

10     very much.  We will move on.

11        Q.   Ms. Fedrije, in 1999 you lived in the village of Donji Svracak;

12     am I right?

13        A.   Yes, Saracak i Ulet.

14             THE INTERPRETER:  Could the witness be asked to speak closer to

15     the microphone, please.

16             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Until the 8th of March, when we

17     left, and then we returned after the end of the war.

18             THE INTERPRETER:  Correction:  28th of March.

19             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

20        Q.   Is the that up until the beginning of the war in 1999 you did not

21     work at all?

22        A.   I worked as a dress-maker at home, as a private employee.  After

23     the war, I started working where I work now.

24        Q.   Thank you.  Now up until March 1999, where did you go from your

25     village, what neighbouring villages did you go to or did you go to any

Page 3079

 1     other places outside of Kosovo?

 2        A.   No, I didn't go outside of Kosova.  We stayed mostly at home, but

 3     I didn't leave Kosova.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  Thank you.  Now I would like to ask you this:  Before

 5     the war started, were you in the village of Donja Dubnica?

 6        A.   Dumnice e Poshtem, no, I wasn't there.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  There are three Dubnicas.  Did you go to any of those

 8     three?

 9        A.   I was only when we left the war -- because of the war.  It was

10     the Dumnice we passed through to go to Dumnice e Poshtem, then

11     Dumnice e Mesme, e Eperme, and then we entered Samadrexha.

12        Q.   Thank you.  Thank you, Ms. Fedrije.  Could you just answer my

13     questions with yes or no to speed things up.  Now, before the war, did

14     you go to the village of Samodreza?

15        A.   Yes, I had been there because my aunt is married there.

16        Q.   Thank you.  Did you go to the village of Slavkovci [as

17     interpreted] before the war?

18        A.   No, I didn't go there.

19        Q.   Thank you.  Did you go to the village of Veskovce before the war?

20        A.   No, I didn't go to Vesekoc either.

21        Q.   Thank you.  And did you go to Smrekovnica before the war?

22        A.   When we went to Mitrovice, we passed by because Smrekonica is

23     close to the road that links Vushtrri with Smrekonica, the main road, but

24     otherwise I haven't been there.

25        Q.   Thank you.  Could you tell me what was the name of the village

Page 3080

 1     where the front line was broken, it was up north, the front line held by

 2     the Serbian forces.  It was in late -- in early -- or in late April and

 3     early May.

 4        A.   It was called Milene -- Melenice village.  It was west of Shale

 5     area.  It was situated -- the front was broken on both sides of the

 6     village.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  Had you ever heard of that village before, had you

 8     ever gone there?

 9        A.   I wasn't there before.

10        Q.   Thank you.  And who told you that the front line had been broken

11     through in that village?

12        A.   The people who lived there who brought the news of what was going

13     on, from where the danger was coming from.  They told us that the front

14     line was broken in Melenice and that it was dangerous to remain there.

15     That's why we decided to leave Vesekovc.

16        Q.   Thank you.  You used the term Salja area, Salja district.  Can

17     you explain to us, what is it?

18        A.   It is in Mitrovice municipality.  It was a very large area

19     comprising several villages, like Bajgor, Bara, Melenice, Kacandoll, many

20     other villages.  It is called Shale area or zone.  It was a safer zone.

21     People from all over went there to take shelter until the front line was

22     broken in Melenice and Kacandoll.

23        Q.   Thank you.  Ms. Fedrije, in paragraph 4 of your statement, that's

24     the 2006 statement, you say that the KLA fighters informed us that the

25     resistance in the village of Meljenica had been broken, it was in the

Page 3081

 1     municipality of Mitrovica and that the Serbs were advancing from the

 2     north.  Those people you were telling us about, were they members of the

 3     KLA, those people who told you that?

 4        A.   The KLA informed the population and then the news spread among

 5     the people, and we organised ourselves into a column to return to

 6     Sllakovc.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  Well, am I right then that the KLA, as is indicated

 8     in your statement, informed you that the resistance had been broken in

 9     the village of Meljenica and that the Serbs were advancing from the

10     north.  They told us that we should try and break through to Vucitrn?

11             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter's note:  The counsel is kindly

12     asked to slow down when reading.

13             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, I think so, that it was the

14     KLA that informed the people because it was the KLA that was protecting

15     the people, but the KLA couldn't resist anymore the Serb forces.  That's

16     why it, the KLA, informed the people to leave that area.

17             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

18        Q.   Thank you.  And how were you supposed to break through to

19     Vucitrn?

20        A.   Can you repeat the question, please?

21        Q.   Let me read a portion of your statement so that we get it right:

22             "They told us that we should try and break through to Vucitrn."

23        A.   This was after the two days we stayed in Sllakovc.  We thought

24     that the only way for us to escape was to go to Vushtrri, and that's why,

25     as I said, we organised ourselves into this column to go into Vushtrri.

Page 3082

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Well, was Slakovci in the stage of combat when you

 2     set out to Vucitrn so that you had to get through?  That's why I asked

 3     what that was all about, getting through from Slakovci to Vucitrn.  Could

 4     you please describe that a bit.

 5        A.   Yes, we had to leave Sllakovc too because we saw that the danger

 6     was approaching Sllakovc.  We joined the column to get through to

 7     Vushtrri because we thought that that was the best solution, but we

 8     didn't think that the worst could happen to us on the 2nd of May there.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  What kind of danger are you talking about, could you

10     please describe that for us?

11        A.   We could hear explosions, shelling coming from the Shale area

12     where the Serb forces were.  We could hear the shots.  We could feel that

13     the danger was close because of that, because we could hear all sorts of

14     shots, firing from all sorts of weapons, from that area because there

15     were Serb forces coming in the direction of Sllakovc where we were.

16        Q.   Can you tell by the firing what forces are actually doing the

17     shooting?

18        A.   Of course, we were informed that these were -- shots were coming

19     from the Serb forces.

20        Q.   Thank you.  And the KLA was not shooting?

21        A.   No, I didn't hear the KLA firing shots.

22        Q.   Thank you.  Where was the KLA then when you were in Slakovci?

23        A.   I think they were positioned at Ceceli village.  In Sllakovc,

24     however, there were a lot of people from the Shala area, whereas the KLA

25     forces were positioned in Ceceli village.

Page 3083

 1        Q.   Thank you.  But you said that the KLA was protecting you.  How

 2     was that the case when you came to Slakovci?

 3        A.   We didn't stay at Sllakovc.  We joined the convoy in order to get

 4     to Vushtrri.

 5        Q.   All right.  Tell me, how were they protecting you while you were

 6     in the village of Veskovce?

 7        A.   The KLA was very far from where we were.  They were in other

 8     villages, not where the people were.  They were trying to repel the

 9     attacks of the Serb forces, to prevent them from coming closer to the

10     area where the civilian population was.

11        Q.   Thank you.  And before the Serb forces came along, these

12     territories were held by the KLA; am I right?

13        A.   Yes.

14        Q.   Thank you.  Were there any members of the KLA in your village in

15     March 1999?

16        A.   No, there weren't.

17        Q.   Thank you.  And how was it that the KLA informed you -- no,

18     actually -- or yes, how did they inform you that you were supposed to

19     leave Samodreza and go further on?

20        A.   They informed a person and that person came and told us that we

21     were supposed to leave Samadrexha, as the Serb forces were approaching

22     this village.  So the KLA, I assume, observed the movement of the forces

23     and the terrain and then informed the people, and these people then came

24     and informed us, told us that we had to leave.

25        Q.   Thank you.  Mrs. Fedrije, could you please tell me, you were from

Page 3084

 1     Donji Svracak.  Where is Gornji Svracak?

 2        A.   It is adjacent to Saracak i Ulet.  They are separate villages,

 3     but Saracak e Eperm or Upper Saracak is further up, whereas the lower one

 4     is lower down.

 5        Q.   Could you please tell me, or rather, are these villages on two

 6     different sides of a hill?

 7        A.   The Lower Saracak is on a plain, whereas the Upper Saracak is on

 8     an elevation, on a hilly part, that's why they're called like they're

 9     called.  Saracak e Eperm, i.e., upper Saracak, is on a hilly area.

10        Q.   Thank you.  Can you see Gornji Svracak from your own village with

11     the naked eye?

12        A.   Yes, you can see it very well.

13        Q.   Thank you.  And what about Donja Sudimlja, can you see it from

14     your village with the naked eye?

15        A.   Only some of its houses.  There is a hill between Saracak and

16     Studime e Ulet, so you can only see part of Studime from my village.

17        Q.   Mrs. Fedrije, on this map provided to us by the OTP,

18     Gornji Svracak and Donji Svracak and Donja Sudimlja are behind a hill,

19     which is feature 588, but this would be a subject for a different kind of

20     analysis.  Thank you.  Let us move on.

21             Can you tell me when it was that the Serbs left the village in

22     March 1999 or earlier -- tell me, when did they leave?

23        A.   They left one night before we left in March 1999.  They left the

24     village a day before we did.

25        Q.   Thank you.  Do you know whether in 1998 the Serb families left

Page 3085

 1     the village at all?

 2        A.   No.  They lived there in the village until the day they left, one

 3     day before we did.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  Mrs. Fedrije, in your statement from 2001 you stated,

 5     it's paragraph 3:

 6             "We moved out of the village because some of our Serb neighbours

 7     had also moved out and they went to the village of Nedakovac.  We thought

 8     that perhaps something was going on and that is why we decided to leave."

 9             You didn't mention any kind of burning or arson.  I'm sorry, this

10     is from 2001, but it doesn't matter.  The content is correct.

11        A.   It is true that the Serbs left a day before we did and went to

12     the village of Nedakovc.  We left a day later because the houses were set

13     on fire in Saracak e Eperm.  When we saw that all the villagers were

14     leaving their houses, we decided to leave too and together we set off in

15     the direction of Dumnice and went to all these villages that I mentioned.

16        Q.   However, today you said to us that you had moved out because

17     houses in your village had been burned down.

18        A.   They started to set the houses on fire in Saracak e Eperm.

19        Q.   Thank you.  A few moments ago you said that you did not recognise

20     any members of the KLA.  Was anybody from your house a member of the KLA?

21        A.   My brother's son, Ismet, was a member; but he stopped being a

22     member before we left our house.

23        Q.   Thank you.  How old was Ismet in March 1999?

24        A.   20, I think he was about 20 years old.

25        Q.   Thank you.  And how old were Mirsad and his other brother, the

Page 3086

 1     third brother I mean, Lavdim?

 2        A.   Mirsad was 16 years old, whereas Lavdim was 13.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  You said that the Serbs kept searching for Ismet all

 4     the time.  Could you please explain that to us a bit.

 5        A.   Ismet, at the time, had joined the KLA; and the Serbs in the

 6     village wanted to find out about each and every member of the village,

 7     where they were.  So they asked about Ismet too, so fearing that

 8     something might happen to his family, Ismet left the KLA and joined the

 9     family again.

10        Q.   How did they know that Ismet was a member of the KLA, on the

11     basis of what?

12        A.   That I don't know.  I don't know.

13        Q.   Thank you.  Did he have a uniform?

14        A.   No.  He was in civilian clothes during his time in the KLA.  He

15     didn't have a uniform.

16        Q.   Thank you.  Did you see whether he had any weapons?

17        A.   No, he didn't have any.

18        Q.   Thank you.  You did not see that he had a weapon; am I right?

19        A.   He didn't have a weapon.

20        Q.   How come you know that he didn't have a weapon ?  It's one thing

21     if you didn't see that he had a weapon; it's a different thing if you say

22     that he did not have a weapon at all.

23        A.   During that time - he would come and visit the family very

24     often - he never had a weapon with him when he would visit, and he stayed

25     in Vucitrn for a short time --

Page 3087

 1             THE INTERPRETER:  In the KLA, correction, not Vucitrn.

 2             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

 3        Q.   Thank you.  Do you think that it could not be seen that he had a

 4     uniform -- a weapon?

 5        A.   He didn't have a weapon.  He wouldn't hide it from us if he had

 6     one.

 7        Q.   Very well.  Thank you.  Did you all live in a single house, in a

 8     single household, you, two sisters, two brothers, with your families,

 9     your father and mother?

10        A.   Yes, we all lived in a single house.

11        Q.   Thank you.  Did the Serbian police come to your house to look for

12     Ismet?

13        A.   No, they didn't come to our house, but they did ask about him,

14     our neighbours in the village.  And then Ismet withdrew.

15        Q.   Thank you.  When you left your house, am I right if I believe

16     that you were all on a tractor?

17        A.   Yes.  On that date we were all on a tractor, the whole family,

18     with the exception of my father; my uncle, Muharrem; and my uncle's son,

19     Hilmi, who wanted to remain in the house.  But they did leave the house

20     that night because there was sniper gun-fire from the direction of

21     Nedakovc village, so they had to leave and abandon the houses.

22        Q.   Thank you.  How come Uncle Muharrem, maternal uncle or paternal

23     uncle, I didn't quite understand, did it just so happen that they joined

24     you or did they live with you?

25        A.   Our family, extended family, have the houses next to each other.

Page 3088

 1     So my house was close to the houses of my uncles.  We were four.

 2             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic, we'll have to have the second break

 3     now.  We'll resume at ten minutes past 6.00.

 4                           --- Recess taken at 5.44 p.m.

 5                           [Witness stands down]

 6                           --- On resuming at 6.14 p.m.

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  While the witness is coming in, could I remind

 8     counsel that because of the needs of another Trial Chamber we are now to

 9     sit tomorrow morning at 9.00 instead of 2.15 as originally listed.  And

10     we sit again on Friday of course at 9.00 in the morning.

11                           [The witness takes the stand]

12             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.

13             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

14        Q.   Ms. Fedrije, could you tell us, why did you decide to head from

15     Donji Svrakovci to Donja Dubnica?

16        A.   Are you talking about my village?

17        Q.   Yes.  So why did you leave your village to go to Dubnica?

18        A.   Because I told you earlier, we felt it was dangerous to remain

19     there.  We wanted to go to safer places.  We went to Dumnice e Mesme,

20     middle Dumnice.  From there we continued to Samadrexha and to the

21     villages I mentioned earlier.

22        Q.   Thank you.  You told me why you left the village, but my question

23     was:  Why did you decide to head towards middle Dubnica, as you've just

24     told us?

25        A.   Because it was a safer area.

Page 3089

 1        Q.   Thank you, Ms. Fedrije, but you were perhaps less than a

 2     kilometre away from Vucitrn.  It's a town.  And according to some

 3     information, some people were leaving to Vucitrn in order to seek shelter

 4     in a safe place.

 5        A.   People left Vushtrri and came to Dumnice.  It was dangerous for

 6     us to go back to Vushtrri.  That's why we chose to go to Dumnice where we

 7     went -- from where we went to other villages of Shale.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  And Lazovici, where is Lazovici in relation to your

 9     village?

10        A.   I don't know.  It is at the entrance to Samadrexha village, but

11     how far it is from my village, I might say 2 or 3 kilometres.  It is near

12     Saracak e Eperm, Upper Saracak, very close, this neighbourhood of

13     Llazoviq.

14        Q.   Thank you.  And did you yourself see the check-point at Lazovici?

15        A.   No, but people said that the police check-point -- at the police

16     check-point there were other forces and people were not free to pass

17     through to Samadrexha and go to other villages.  But I wasn't there

18     myself to see them with my own eyes.

19        Q.   Thank you.  Did you ever go to Kacandol?

20        A.   No.

21        Q.   Thank you.  And do you know where Kacandol is?

22        A.   It is in the Shale zone on the side of Llap, Podujeve.

23        Q.   Thank you.  You've replied to what was to be my next question.

24             You say that you heard gun-fire from the Lap area and shelling.

25     How far is it from the place where you were?  Can you estimate the

Page 3090

 1     distance and did you see the gun-fire or did you just hear it?

 2        A.   We only heard the gun-fire.  We heard the shelling.  I cannot

 3     tell you, in accurate terms, the distance.  I don't know how far the

 4     place where we were is from Kacandoll village.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Am I right when I say that you were going back the

 6     same route that you took when you went to the village of Leskovac?

 7        A.   Yes, that's correct.  We followed the same route we went on our

 8     return.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  And as you were going out and as you were coming

10     back, that road was safe for you; am I right?

11        A.   We didn't face any dangers on the road that night.  For the

12     others, there might have been some dangers; for us, there wasn't any

13     because we passed earlier.

14        Q.   Thank you.  Am I right when I say that you came into danger only

15     when you headed out of Cecelija towards Gornja Sudimlja and then on to

16     Donja Sudimlja?

17        A.   For us it was danger from Studime e Eperme up to Vushtrri.  We

18     were faced with danger during all that time.  Maybe for the others who

19     were left behind, even the route they followed from Ceceli to Studime was

20     dangerous.

21        Q.   I don't know, can you explain to me why do you say those who were

22     left behind?  Why is it that the road from Cecelija to Sudimlja was

23     dangerous for them?

24        A.   Because the Serb forces were coming along that route.  They were

25     coming towards the population.  We left -- some of us left earlier, some

Page 3091

 1     left later, so it was dangerous for those who were left behind.

 2        Q.   Well, in your statement you say that the KLA was heading in the

 3     opposite direction in relation to the column where you were.

 4        A.   Yes, that day, the KLA had left in the opposite direction,

 5     whereas we entered through the road to Studime.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  And the police and the APCs that you were talking

 7     about were also heading in the opposite direction, am I right, in

 8     relation to the column where you were?

 9        A.   The police forces came along the same way that the column was

10     heading.  I didn't see them when they arrived because we left earlier.

11     The Serb forces caught up with us at the time that I mentioned, at 2100

12     hours when we were between the two Studimes.  This -- that was when they

13     came, where we were.

14        Q.   Thank you.  Did you ever see a KLA member in uniform?

15        A.   During the time we were in Sllakovc, yes, I saw KLA members in

16     uniforms passing by.

17        Q.   Thank you.  And did you see them en route from Slakovci to

18     Gornja Sudimlja and Donja Sudimlja?

19        A.   No, no.  I saw them one day before we left in the column.  On the

20     road to Studime, I didn't see any KLA members.

21        Q.   You say in paragraph 9 of your 2006 statement:

22             "We took the opportunity to send Ismet on to inform the KLA

23     fighters in the mountains about what had happened."

24             Could you please explain to us first of all:  How did you know

25     where the KLA troops were?

Page 3092

 1        A.   We didn't know where the KLA fighters were.  Ismet didn't know it

 2     either.  But that night that he left us, he stayed in the mountain for

 3     that night in the vicinity of Samadrexha.  There were two others with

 4     Ismet who knew where to find the KLA soldiers.  I don't know where they

 5     met, but Ismet wasn't sure where he would meet the KLA soldiers.

 6        Q.   Well, what was Ismet's task?

 7        A.   A day later, he spoke with the soldiers; but the army had already

 8     received the news of what had happened.  This is what Ismet said.

 9     Together with the KLA and other civilians, they collected the corpses

10     that had remained in the mountains.

11        Q.   Thank you.  You say that Ismet told you that.  When did he tell

12     you that?

13        A.   He told me this when the war was over, when I met him and Jetish.

14        Q.   Thank you.  And what effect was this, Ismet's warning, supposed

15     to have with the KLA and that had prompted you to send him there on that

16     mission?

17        A.   The main reason for us was to keep Ismet safe.  That's why we

18     wanted him to go back to the KLA headquarters.  We didn't want him to be

19     killed by the Serb forces.

20        Q.   Thank you.  And your uncle was with you too, Muharrem, I believe?

21        A.   Yes.

22        Q.   Did he know -- could he drive a tractor?

23        A.   No.  He was with his family.  We met him somewhere on the road to

24     Studime e Ulet, and that's when we told him what had happened with

25     members of my family.

Page 3093

 1        Q.   Thank you.  And could cousin Mirsad drive a tractor?  I believe

 2     he was older than Vadim [phoen].

 3        A.   When we got to the tractor, Mirsad and Fazli continued on foot.

 4     We met them on the road to Studime e Ulet that night, when we got all

 5     together again.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  When you're talking about the police uniforms, you

 7     say that the police had green camouflage uniforms and blue camouflage

 8     uniforms; am I right?

 9        A.   What I said is the following:  That the police was wearing blue

10     camouflage uniforms, dark blue pattern.  This is the police uniform that

11     I saw on that night.

12        Q.   Yes.  And in the statement at page 3, that's the 2000 statement,

13     you say one of them was fat and blond and wore a green camouflage

14     uniform, the police officer who beat Jetish.

15        A.   The police officer who beat Jetish wore a dark blue camouflage

16     uniform, and on top of it he had a vest, green camouflage vest.  This is

17     the description I gave for his uniform.

18        Q.   Thank you.  And could you please tell me, what is the difference

19     between the military and paramilitary units, according to you?

20        A.   I couldn't tell the difference.

21        Q.   Ms. Fedrije, you explained to us today how you managed to learn

22     certain things since you started working in the factory in Vucitrn, but I

23     am interested in 1999.  Did you -- did I understand you correctly that

24     you did not make a distinction between military and paramilitary units?

25        A.   As I said earlier, at that time I thought that paramilitaries

Page 3094

 1     were those who wore Balaclavas and gloves.  Those who were there on that

 2     night, the 2nd of May, were all dressed in blue camouflage uniforms.  Now

 3     I know that they were policemen, dressed in police uniforms.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  And am I right when I say that women and children

 5     left for Vucitrn and they were safe, all of those who were in front of

 6     you in the convoy?

 7        A.   None of us was safe.  Everybody who was in the convoy faced the

 8     same danger.  180 persons were killed only that night.  I apologise, 118

 9     persons were killed on that night in Studime on the 2nd of May.

10        Q.   Thank you.  And who told you that?

11        A.   That night I only knew about my family, about the number of

12     persons killed from my family, and I saw these corpses en route.  But

13     after the war, I heard about this from people who had been present when

14     these persons were killed and who had buried the bodies.

15        Q.   Thank you.  Ms. Fedrije, did you ever go to the Vucitrn OUP

16     before the war?

17        A.   No, I didn't.

18        Q.   Thank you.  I'm sure that you never had any business whatsoever

19     with any policemen before the war?

20        A.   No, I never had any business with them.  I would occasionally see

21     them on the street when I would go out.

22        Q.   Thank you.  Well, how come you say then in your statement in

23     paragraph 10 -- how come you talk about policeman Simic?  Did you know

24     him?

25        A.   I didn't know him, but people said that night that that was

Page 3095

 1     Mr. Simic, the person who was ordering the men to go to the other side,

 2     who were separating the men.  So I heard this from other people.  It was

 3     him and other policemen there, but I just remembered his name.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  I found this on page 5 now in the third paragraph in

 5     the statement from the 26th of February, 2000.  You said:

 6             "These policemen wore green camouflage uniforms, but they were

 7     too far away from me, about 200 metres away, so I could not discern the

 8     insignia on their uniforms."

 9             So there were policemen in green camouflage uniforms as well; am

10     I right?

11        A.   I don't recall the date, but these were people dressed in

12     uniforms who entered that neighbourhood and expelled the people from that

13     neighbourhood.  They were quite far from me, so I am not able to describe

14     their uniform; but they were dressed in uniforms, these people who

15     entered this neighbourhood.

16        Q.   Thank you.  But you say that they were policemen?

17        A.   I'm not certain whether they were policemen.  I could not discern

18     their uniform because they were far away.

19        Q.   Thank you.  When you came to this co-operative, you say that the

20     men were separated from the women and children.  Did somebody tell you

21     why that was being done?

22        A.   The end was well known.  We could see that they were loading

23     these men on trucks and taking them somewhere.  We later learned that

24     they were being taken to Smrekonica prison.

25        Q.   Thank you.  But your uncle was not taken away; am I not right?

Page 3096

 1        A.   No, not on that day.

 2        Q.   Yes, yes, we're talking about that day, the 2nd or 3rd of May.

 3     So tell me, please, how did you leave the column when you went to that

 4     village - what was it?  - Kicic, Velika Kicic, and afterwards to

 5     Dobra Luka?

 6        A.   The police that was there ordered us who were on foot to set off

 7     in the direction of Kiciq, Doberlluka, and the third village.  We chose

 8     Kiciq.  There we found an abandoned Albanian house, and we stayed there

 9     for four days.  The family who owned that house returned, then we left

10     and proceeded to the next village where we stayed until the end of the

11     war.

12        Q.   Ms. Fedrije, thank you for having answered my questions.

13             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I have completed my

14     cross-examination.

15             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you very much, Mr. Djurdjic.

16             Ms. Nilsen, is there re-examination?

17             MS. NILSEN:  Your Honours, the Prosecution don't have any

18     questions for re-examination.  Thank you.

19             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

20                           [Trial Chamber confers]

21             JUDGE PARKER:  You'll be pleased to know that that concludes the

22     questions for you.  The Judges would like to thank you for your

23     attendance here again in The Hague and for the assistance that you've

24     been able to give us.  You are now, of course, free to leave and the

25     court officer will show you out and you go with our thanks.

Page 3097

 1             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours, for giving

 2     me the opportunity to testify before this Court.

 3                           [The witness withdrew]

 4             JUDGE PARKER:  Ms. Nilsen, is it practical to think of commencing

 5     the next witness with 10 or 12 minutes to go or would we be fresher in

 6     the morning?

 7             MS. NILSEN:  Your Honours, I think maybe we would -- it would be

 8     better if we could start with the witness tomorrow morning, yes, because

 9     we already released the witness to go.  Thank you.

10             JUDGE PARKER:  That rather determines the matter, doesn't it?

11             MS. NILSEN:  Yeah.

12             JUDGE PARKER:  Very well.

13             We will adjourn now to resume tomorrow morning at 9.00.

14                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 6.50 p.m.,

15                           to be reconvened on Thursday, the 2nd day of

16                           April, 2009, at 9.00 a.m.