Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 3745

 1                           Monday, 27 April 2009

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           --- Upon commencing at 9.01 a.m.

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  Good morning.

 6             Ms. Gopalan.

 7             MS. GOPALAN:  Good morning, Your Honours.  The next witness is

 8     Mr. Ndrec Konaj.

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

10                           [The witness entered court]

11             JUDGE PARKER:  Good morning.

12             THE WITNESS:  Morning.

13             JUDGE PARKER:  Would you please read aloud the affirmation which

14     is shown to you now.

15             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

16     speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

17                           WITNESS:  NDREC KONAJ

18                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

19             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.  Please sit down.

20             THE WITNESS:  Thank you.

21             JUDGE PARKER:  Now Ms. Gopalan has some questions for you.

22                           Examination by Ms. Gopalan:

23        Q.   Good morning, Mr. Konaj.

24        A.   Good morning.

25        Q.   Could you please state your full name for the record.

Page 3746

 1        A.   [Interpretation] My name is Ndrec Konaj.

 2        Q.   And what is your date of birth?

 3        A.   I was born on the 8th of October, 1954.

 4        Q.   Mr. Konaj, where do you live now?

 5        A.   Now I live in Peje, Street UCK, number 149.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  And what is your occupation, Mr. Konaj?

 7        A.   I am a building technician.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Konaj, did you provide a statement to the

 9     Office of the Prosecutor on the 12th of June, 2001?

10        A.   Yes, I did.

11        Q.   Have you recently had the opportunity to review this statement?

12        A.   Yes.

13        Q.   And having reviewed your statement, are you satisfied that the

14     information contained in the statement is true and accurate to the best

15     of your knowledge and belief?

16        A.   To the best of my knowledge, it's true.  There might be some

17     minor changes due to the way you express your sentences, but in fact it's

18     true in general.

19        Q.   Thank you.

20             MS. GOPALAN:  Your Honours, I seek to tender the witness's

21     statement.  It's 65 ter 2372.

22             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

23             THE REGISTRAR:  And that will be assigned P00670, Your Honours.

24             MS. GOPALAN:

25        Q.   Mr. Konaj, did you testify in the trial of

Page 3747

 1     Prosecutor versus Milutinovic et al. in October 2006?

 2        A.   Yes, I did.

 3        Q.   Have you recently had the opportunity to review your testimony in

 4     that case?

 5        A.   Yes.

 6        Q.   And having reviewed your testimony, I understand that you wished

 7     to make some changes to it.  I will read out the most substantial change

 8     that you wished to make and ask that you confirm that the change is

 9     correct.

10        A.   Okay.

11        Q.   At page 4889, line 14, of your testimony you were asked to

12     describe the colours of some vehicles that you saw.  The question was:

13             "Q.  Can you please describe the one that you identified as a

14     military Pinzgauer, what colour was it?"

15             You answered then:

16             "A.  Blue."

17             I understand that you would like to clarify that you had

18     misunderstood the question and that you thought you were being asked

19     about the police Pinzgauer, which was in fact blue.

20             JUDGE PARKER:  Ms. Gopalan --

21             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] That's correct.  There were two

22     Pinzgauers, one military, one police.  So that's why there is this

23     misunderstanding regarding the colour because a police Pinzgauer was a

24     blue colour with big tires.  It was the same -- the military one was the

25     same but maybe I didn't know how to say -- to express the right word for

Page 3748

 1     it.  But in general we referred to them as Pinzgauer without making any

 2     distinction.

 3             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic.

 4             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.  I object to this

 5     manner of correcting the transcript, that is, alleged correcting of the

 6     transcript.  I don't mind the witness saying whatever in answer to the

 7     questions of the Prosecution, but this way of correcting the transcript

 8     after so many years and after the Prosecution did this in the Milutinovic

 9     trial and continuing in this trial, I really object, because this is not

10     a correction of the transcript, this is a new answer at a new trial, and

11     it can affect the cross-examination and my questions.  Thank you.

12             JUDGE PARKER:  The concern of the Chamber, Ms. Gopalan, may be

13     the same as that of Mr. Djurdjic or it may be different.  I'm not

14     entirely sure.  If the witness says that there is something that he finds

15     incorrect in the statement, it would be better if you allowed him to say

16     what it is that he sees to be wrong and what he now wishes to say, rather

17     than you repeat what you may have been told at some earlier time by him.

18     And -- now, I suspect that that is the point Mr. Djurdjic was concerned

19     about as well.  So no leading, in effect, upon changes to previous

20     testimony.

21             MS. GOPALAN:  Okay.

22             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

23             MS. GOPALAN:  Perhaps I could then rephrase the question --

24             JUDGE PARKER:  But we've got the answer now.  I think you move

25     on.

Page 3749

 1             MS. GOPALAN:  Okay.

 2             Do I have permission at this point to tender the testimony into

 3     evidence, Your Honours?

 4             JUDGE PARKER:  If you're ready to do that, yes, it will be

 5     received.

 6             MS. GOPALAN:  Thank you.

 7        Q.   Mr. Konaj --

 8             MS. GOPALAN:  It is 05050, 5050 is its 65 ter number.

 9             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be assigned P00671, Your Honours.

10             MS. GOPALAN:  I'll now read out the witness's in-court summary.

11             The witness is a Kosovo Albanian resident of Pec.  In 1999 he was

12     a building inspector.  The witness will describe events in Pec on the

13     27th and 28th of March, 1999, which led to the expulsion of

14     Kosovo Albanians by Serb forces.  On the 27th of March, 1999, the witness

15     was staying at his father's house in the Karagaq district of Pec town

16     with his family and some others.

17             In the afternoon, a group of paramilitaries entered his father's

18     yard, shot at the house, and gave the occupants five minutes to leave in

19     the direction of Montenegro.

20             The witness and his family did as instructed and started walking

21     through the streets of Pec.  The witness's group was stopped several

22     times, and on one occasion they were stopped by a group of nine men in

23     civilian cars.  The witness was assaulted as was his uncle, who was hit

24     in the back with a rifle-butt.

25             On the 28th of March, 1999, the witness and his family were

Page 3750

 1     expelled from Pec.  En route, the witness saw military, police, and

 2     paramilitary troops at every junction to prevent deviation from the

 3     route.  They were later stopped by a mixed group of Serb forces, who then

 4     asked them to return to the town centre where there were thousands of

 5     people.

 6             About 20 trucks and buses were filled with these displaced

 7     persons and driven off in the direction of Prizren.  Later that night,

 8     the witness go onto a bus with his family.  As the convoy travelled

 9     south, they were stopped at a check-point opposite the police station in

10     Djakovica.  There, the witness saw members of the police and

11     paramilitaries beating a group of men.

12             The bus travelled on towards Prizren, and at the junction to

13     Verbica they were told to leave the bus and walk to Albania.  Soon after,

14     other buses appeared and the witness got on one which dropped him off at

15     the border crossing.  The witness and his family then walked to the

16     border, where they were told to throw their identification documents into

17     a large box.  The witness crossed into Albania on the morning of the

18     29th of March, 1999.

19             That's the end of the in-court summary.

20             JUDGE PARKER:  I was too quick, Ms. Gopalan, earlier.  We have

21     the witness's explanation for his change.  What he hasn't told us is what

22     colour was the Pinzgauer that he was describing.  He said it was not the

23     blue one, which was police, but he has not describes the colour of the

24     military one.  So you may wish to explore that.

25             MS. GOPALAN:  I believe that's already addressed in the

Page 3751

 1     Milutinovic transcript.  It's the lines that follow --

 2             JUDGE PARKER:  If you're happy with that, okay.

 3             MS. GOPALAN:  Thank you.

 4        Q.   Mr. Konaj, I have some questions for you.  As you know, the

 5     Chamber already has before it your statement and testimony in the

 6     Milutinovic case, so I have some very specific questions.  Let's begin

 7     with the events on the 27th of March, 1999.  On this day, you were at

 8     your father's house, in a neighbourhood in Pec, with your immediate

 9     family, some relatives, and others.

10             For the record, this is page 3 of the statement in English.

11             You say that in the afternoon, masked Serbian paramilitary troops

12     entered the neighbourhood and 15 of them entered your father's yard fully

13     armed.  Mr. Konaj, what did these paramilitaries say to you and the

14     others who were present at the house?

15        A.   They ordered us to leave the house in five minutes and walk in

16     the direction of Montenegro.

17        Q.   Thank you.  In paragraph 4 of your statement you say that you and

18     your family walked to the stone bridge, and there you were stopped by two

19     paramilitary soldiers who came from the cafe Stari Most.  These two

20     paramilitary soldiers that you mentioned, did you recognise them?

21        A.   By sight, yes, but not by name.  I didn't know where they lived.

22     I knew them by sight.  They were familiar faces.

23        Q.   And why were they familiar faces to you?

24        A.   I had seen them passing by in the streets of the town, but I

25     didn't know who they were.  I didn't know their names.

Page 3752

 1        Q.   Thank you.  You then continued walking, and in the cafe Iliriana,

 2     you came across another group of seven policemen.  And after that - this

 3     is at paragraph 7 of the English - you say that two private cars stopped

 4     and nine men got out.

 5             Could you tell us what these men did?

 6        A.   At this stone bridge, as I said, the soldiers stopped us.  They

 7     separated me and my uncle and put us against the wall, and then our

 8     family members started crying.  They asked us how much money we had.  I

 9     said I had 150 Deutschemark.  My uncle said he had 10 dinars.  And he

10     said, Why do you have so little money on you?  I had more because I was

11     the head of the family.  That's why I had more money.  Then there was a

12     large number of other families expelled from their homes.  They told us

13     to leave.

14             When we came to Iliriana, there were these seven policemen.

15     Seven I'm saying; maybe I'm not exact in their number.  One of them was

16     dressed in the police uniform.  He said to us, You shouldn't walk on the

17     main road.  Walk by the side-streets.  That's why we started walking

18     by -- on the side-streets.

19        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Konaj.  Now, let's take you to when your family

20     was stopped by these two private cars, and you speak about nine men

21     getting out of the cars.  What did these men do?

22        A.   That's why I was saying.  Two cars came by speedily, and they

23     stopped, and they got out of these cars.  They ordered me, as I said, and

24     my family to walk in the direction of Montenegro.  They said, You have

25     asked Clinton to come, so he should come and rescue you.  And they cursed

Page 3753

 1     our mothers.  They didn't spare any curses.  One of them hit me on my

 2     chin, another one hit my uncle with a rifle-butt.  Then someone from the

 3     second car shouted in Serbian:  Go to -- let them go, and then we walked

 4     in the direction of the bus stop.

 5        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Konaj.  On that day - this is the

 6     27th of March - you say that you saw groups of Romas and police, that

 7     they were drinking together, and that they were breaking into shops and

 8     stealing goods.  This is at the top of page 4 of the English statement.

 9             Where did you see this, Mr. Konaj, in which part of Pec?

10        A.   When we left the house of Salih Dreshaj, because we went there on

11     the 27th of March - after they told us to go to Montenegro - there are a

12     couple of stores there.  There were group of Roma who entered these

13     stores and stole goods.  We saw them stealing goods and drinking beer.

14        Q.   Was --

15        A.   We were taken to the centre.

16        Q.   Was there anyone else with these groups of Roma?  Did you see

17     anyone else?

18        A.   In every street or side-street on the 28th of March, that is, on

19     the next day, even on the 27th, in every street or side-street, there

20     were two, three, in the main streets, seven, eight policemen, military

21     men, dressed in blue uniforms; and they told us where to go.

22        Q.   And when you say that you saw goods being stolen, could you tell

23     us what sort of goods these were?

24        A.   That's true.  I saw them coming out of the store, of the pharmacy

25     with -- loaded with medicaments.

Page 3754

 1        Q.   And do you remember how big this group was?

 2        A.   You ran into them every 5, 10 metres, all along the way, on both

 3     sides of the street.

 4        Q.   Do you remember how many people there were in this group that

 5     were taking medication or medicaments out of the pharmacy?

 6        A.   I can't give you an exact figure.  It was not a large group, but

 7     two, three people, I would say, came out of this pharmacy along -- or

 8     along -- from other stores along the way until we went to the centre.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Konaj, I'd now like to move on to the events on

10     the 28th of March.  For the record, this is in paragraph 4 of page 4 of

11     the English.

12             You say that on that day you saw crowds of people in the street.

13     They had been evicted from the area of the Catholic church.

14             Mr. Konaj, how do you know that these people had been evicted

15     from the area of the Catholic church?

16        A.   At 8.00 in the morning, together with the son of my best man, we

17     left the house and we saw the crowd coming through the side-street.  We

18     asked them what happened, and they said that they were evicted from their

19     homes and ordered to go in the direction of Montenegro.  And my -- I

20     asked my mother and my mother-in-law to get to the car of my best man;

21     and my wife and my two daughters joined the crowd of people.  And all of

22     us, with my uncle, his wife, we walked in the direction of Montenegro.

23     At the school of economics, they stopped us and said, Go back to the

24     centre.

25        Q.   Thank you.  Now, before we move on to what happened at the school

Page 3755

 1     of economics, these people who told you that they had been ordered to go

 2     in the direction of Montenegro, did they tell you who had ordered them to

 3     head in that direction?

 4        A.   The police, the army, the paramilitaries, we couldn't tell who

 5     exactly, but they -- of course, the same persons who ordered us or who

 6     expelled us from our home.

 7        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Konaj.  Now, you say that at the school of

 8     economics they stopped you and asked you to go back to the centre.  What

 9     did you see in the centre when you headed back there?

10        A.   As I already said, on the way from SUP in the direction of the

11     main street, and in that area that I mentioned with these stores, when we

12     went to the centre from Hotel Metohija, Hotel Korsa, all over, was full

13     of people, people evicted from their homes and sent to the centre.

14             In the middle there were lorries, trucks covered, refrigerator

15     trucks, buses, aid trucks, and so on where people got onto; and they were

16     sent in the direction of Albania.

17        Q.   Thank you.  Now, Mr. Konaj, you say that your family got on one

18     of these vehicles at about 10.00, so later that night you got on a bus

19     with your family.  When you got on the bus, did you know where you were

20     going?

21        A.   I want to make an explanation.  My uncle and my wife got on this

22     truck with a tarpaulin.  I asked them to come back, and we went to the

23     last bus together with my daughters, two daughters.  The soldier came and

24     asked my friend Bekim Kurti to give him money.  He gave him

25     40 Deutschemark, and he allowed him and my first cousin to enter the bus.

Page 3756

 1     I wanted to give that man money, but he didn't ask me for that.  So we

 2     were nine persons that went into this bus; but when they opened the doors

 3     people rushed in, about maybe 100 of them, and they sent us in the

 4     direction of Albania.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  And you also say in your statement - this is English

 6     page 5, paragraph 2 - you were stopped at a check-point or the bus was

 7     stopped at a check-point in Gjakova opposite the police station.  What

 8     was happening in that area?  What could you see from the bus?

 9        A.   I was the last in the bus from our group.  Ahead of us there was

10     a covered truck.  They stopped us at the police station in Gjakove.

11     There were policemen there.  They were dressed in camouflage uniforms.  I

12     recognised one of them, Miki Stojanovic, nickname Lapoc.  He said that

13     all the men should come down, but the driver who was a military man, he

14     didn't allow any one of us to get off the bus.  And he said to this man,

15     I have orders to take all of them to Prizren.  The other guy that I

16     mentioned said, Okay, when we come back we'll see about that.  So we

17     continued on our way in the direction of Prizren.

18        Q.   Okay.  Thank you.

19        A.   We got off the bus at the entrance to Prizren.

20        Q.   And you say in your statement that you were stopped in Prizren at

21     the junction that leads to Vermice.  This is in paragraph 4, page 5, of

22     the English.  Could you tell us what the driver of the bus told you at

23     that junction?

24        A.   When they left us there he said, This is the road to Albania.  Go

25     straight to Albania.  Then they said, This is not your country.  This is

Page 3757

 1     Serbia.  Go to your own country, to Albania.

 2        Q.   Thank you.  And, Mr. Konaj, you say that after that you were

 3     picked up by another bus and you arrived at the border at approximately

 4     5.00 a.m. Can you tell us what you witnessed at the border?

 5        A.   I wanted to add something.  When we were told to go to Albania,

 6     first one bus came from the direction of Prizren, then another three, and

 7     then another two.  They told us to walk in the direction -- in that

 8     direction, but we didn't.  We wanted to get on a second bus.  We -- I

 9     didn't want to join the convoy with my daughters.  I was scared that

10     something might happen to them, so we continued by bus to Vermice, and

11     another military person said to us, Please, just stick to the main road.

12     Don't walk on the side roads because the area is mined.

13             So we continued from Vermice and walked for 7 kilometres.  When

14     we arrived at the border, there were policemen there, there were also

15     people dressed in military uniforms, and there was a big wooden box.  We

16     were told to throw our identification cards, passports, driver's licences

17     there, registration plates.  I pretended that I was throwing my ID card

18     there, but I didn't throw it, in fact, and I have it to this day.

19        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Konaj.  Now, I would like to move on to your

20     return to Pec.  When was it you returned to Pec, if you recall?

21        A.   I don't know the exact day.  It was a problem for us to get back.

22     It was impossible to get back when we wanted.  When the NATO forces

23     entered Kosova, personally I wanted to go in right away, but I couldn't.

24        Q.   When you did return to Pec, do you recall the condition of the

25     buildings in Pec town?

Page 3758

 1        A.   In the centre of the town and Peje in general, there was a lot of

 2     damage caused.  The picture was horrific.

 3        Q.   And when you speak of damage caused, could you tell us what sort

 4     of damage it is that you saw?

 5        A.   The houses were burnt down, destroyed; they were razed to the

 6     ground.

 7        Q.   And what was the condition of your father's house, if you

 8     remember?

 9        A.   When I went to see my father's house, it was completely

10     demolished in the inside.  From the outside it was a little bit burned.

11     There was a fig tree in the yard that caught the fire and the part of the

12     house near the fig tree.  The house of my uncle, which is in the same

13     courtyard, was burnt completely.

14        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Konaj.  At this stage I have no further questions

15     for you.

16        A.   Thank you.

17             MS. GOPALAN:  Your Honours, before I sit down, perhaps I should

18     ask the witness to confirm that apart from the corrections that he made

19     that the transcript is true and accurate to the best of his knowledge and

20     belief.  I believe that step was skipped when I was tendering the

21     transcript.

22             JUDGE PARKER:  If you believe it was skipped, deal with it.

23             MS. GOPALAN:

24        Q.   Mr. Konaj, before I sit down, I'd like to take you back to the

25     questions I had about your transcript.  We made some corrections to the

Page 3759

 1     transcript which we read out in court.  Now, having made those

 2     corrections, if you were asked the same questions again today would you

 3     provide substantially the same answers?

 4        A.   Yes, of course.

 5        Q.   Thank you.

 6             MS. GOPALAN:  Thank you, Your Honours.

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic.

 8             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

 9                           Cross-examination by Mr. Djurdjic:

10        Q.   [Interpretation] Good morning, Mr. Konaj.  My name is

11     Veljko Djurdjic, and I'm a member of the team of defence for the accused

12     Vlastimir Djordjevic, and with me here is my assistant,

13     Ms. Marie O'Leary, a member of the Defence team.  I will have a few

14     questions for you.

15             I would like to begin by asking you about your testimony today,

16     your answers to the questions of the Prosecutor, Ms. Gopalan.  So far you

17     have made several statements, some were written, and there were also

18     testimonies here before the Court, I believe in the Milosevic and

19     Milutinovic cases.  One of these testimonies was in 2002 and the other in

20     2006; am I correct?

21        A.   Yes, correct.

22        Q.   Thank you.  Toward the end of the questioning by Ms. Gopalan you

23     said that you didn't know when it was exactly that you had returned to

24     Pec; and as far as I could observe, you did not actually witness the

25     events in Pec from the moment when you left up until the moment when you

Page 3760

1     returned; correct?

 2        A.   From the 28th, when we left, that is, in 1999, up until the

 3     liberation of Kosova, I wasn't in Kosova; that is true.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  And you don't know how your house happened to be

 5     damaged or the house of your father and your uncle because you weren't

 6     there, you did not actually witness this?

 7        A.   That's also correct, but as I already told Ms. Gopalan -- she

 8     asked me how, in what state, I found these houses and Peje in general

 9     upon my return, not during the war.  And upon my return, I found the

10     houses in the state I already described.

11        Q.   Yes, thank you.  Thank you, Mr. Konaj.  Now I would like to refer

12     you to paragraph 28 of your statement.

13             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] But just let me say for the

14     benefit of the Trial Chamber that the statement by Mr. Konaj in the

15     English version and Albanian, I read the statements and I followed from

16     numbers 1 to the end.  So when I say "paragraph 25," this will be in the

17     English version on page 5, or rather, paragraph 28, I apologise.  So of

18     page 5, paragraph 4.

19        Q.   Now, Witness, today you said that the bus driver who drove you

20     from Pec said on the way -- on your way out, This is Serbia.  This is not

21     your country.  Go to Albania.  Is that correct?

22        A.   Correct.  That's true.

23        Q.   Thank you.  And your recollection is better today than when you

24     gave your statement - and I believe the second statement was on the

25     12th of June, 2001?

Page 3761

 1        A.   I hope you will never go through that experience, and that

 2     experience can never be forgotten.  I was expelled in the middle of the

 3     night with my whole family, most of it comprising women.  I was the only

 4     man with my uncle amongst those women.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  We are talking now about the time, the moment, when

 6     you actually boarded the bus for Prizren.  So I am referring to that

 7     driver.  Do you recall that you gave a statement in 2001 to the

 8     Prosecutor, or rather, to the investigator?

 9        A.   I know you're referring to 2001 statement.  I gave this statement

10     to Garry Selsky, an investigator from The Hague who came to Albania.

11     Then I gave another statement in Peje.  So there were several statements,

12     so I don't know which one in particular you're referring to.  Can you

13     please remind me.

14        Q.   So regarding your statement from 2001 - and this is the reason

15     why I would like you to listen very carefully so we can clear this

16     up - Ms. Gopalan referred you to paragraph 28, or rather, paragraph 4 on

17     page 5.  The first paragraph is not a paragraph, really.  It's just

18     from -- a continuation from the previous page, but the fourth full

19     paragraph.  So did you say there that that comment referred to the driver

20     who drove you from Prizren to the border, or the driver who drove you

21     from Djakovica to Prizren?  So let's just try and clarify this.

22             JUDGE PARKER:  Ms. Gopalan.

23             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Now it's more clear.  The driver

24     who brought us to Prizren was the same driver as in Peje, and he said the

25     same thing, Go to Albania.  This is not your country.  These were his

Page 3762

 1     words.  Whereas the driver who took us from Prizren to Vermice, he asked

 2     us kindly to stick to the main road and not to the sides because of the

 3     terrain that had been mined.

 4             JUDGE PARKER:  Ms. Gopalan.

 5             MS. GOPALAN:  Thank you, Your Honours.  As the witness is being

 6     asked a number of questions about his statement, I wonder whether the

 7     statement should be called up on the screen so that it's easier for him

 8     to refer to the paragraphs that he's being asked questions about, or I

 9     have a hard copy of the Albanian which I could hand to him as well to

10     ease the process.

11             JUDGE PARKER:  At the moment I've not discerned that the witness

12     is in any way unable to recall the statement, but if at any time, sir,

13     you need to check the statement, just indicate that, and we can let you

14     have a copy or put one on the screen.

15             Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.

16             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.  I believe

17     that the witness was able to clarify this on his own without the text,

18     but I tend to agree with Ms. Gopalan that perhaps we should also have the

19     statement on the screens.  But I will ask Ms. Gopalan to do that once we

20     come to that.

21        Q.   Now, let's go on, Mr. Konaj.  Now, to paragraph 25 of your

22     statement - in the English version that's page 5, the first full

23     paragraph - this has to do with a man called Miki Stojanovic.  For now,

24     let me just say that you mentioned today during your testimony that this

25     was a police officer who had a camouflage uniform on; is that correct?

Page 3763

 1     Did you say that today, earlier today?  Have I understood you correctly?

 2        A.   No, you have misunderstood me.  I don't remember ever saying that

 3     he was dressed in uniform.  He was in civilian clothes, whereas the

 4     others were dressed in both police uniforms and military uniforms.  I

 5     never said that Miki Stojanovic was wearing uniform when I saw him.

 6        Q.   I wrote down, and I'm pretty certain, but never mind, you've

 7     corrected yourself now.  But I believe that the first time that you did

 8     say that this man, Miki Stojanovic, wore a camouflage uniform on.  But

 9     never mind, let's move on.

10        A.   You probably misunderstood me.

11        Q.   Thank you.  At the start of your testimony today you described

12     the difference between those Pinzgauers.  Now I would like to ask you,

13     Could you please describe what one of those Pinzgauers looked like and

14     what the other one looked like?

15        A.   Just one small clarification to avoid any misunderstanding.  I

16     want my words to be interpreted properly.  I state with full

17     responsibility that I never said today that Miki Stojanovic was dressed

18     in uniform.  He was amongst others who were dressed in police and

19     military uniforms, so I want this to be corrected.

20        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Konaj.  I believe we've already cleared this up.

21     Even if this was an error, an interpretation error or if you've misspoke,

22     we've corrected it.  But now this -- let's go back to these Pinzgauers,

23     and I've asked you to describe the two Pinzgauers, one and then the

24     other.

25        A.   One was blue.  I never served in the army, so I wasn't very clear

Page 3764

 1     in this, but I know that one of them was a police colour, blue, whereas

 2     the other was green, military colour.  They were with big tires.  They

 3     didn't have tracks.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Konaj, where are you employed currently?

 5        A.   I do not work at the moment.  I am in the construction business,

 6     but I'm not employed.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  When you returned from Albania, did you have

 8     employment; and if so, what type?

 9        A.   From 1999, when we were expelled, until this day, I was not

10     employed with any body or organ.

11        Q.   All right, but did you do any work since you returned from

12     Albania up to this day?  Perhaps as a private entrepreneur or any other

13     type of job?

14        A.   I already said that privately I did do some construction

15     business.

16        Q.   Can we understand this to mean that you have a company of your

17     own?

18        A.   No, no.

19        Q.   Did you work for someone, for some company or some construction

20     entrepreneur?

21        A.   I have acquaintances, family, friends, when they had need, for

22     example, in Albania, I helped in the construction of a summer house of a

23     friend of mine; but I was not employed with a company to do that.

24        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Konaj, have I understood you to say that you were

25     born in Gornji Novo Selo in Djakovica municipality?

Page 3765

 1             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I believe the witness did not

 2     receive translation.

 3        Q.   Was your father from this place?

 4        A.   Yes.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Did his father and his brothers, did they live in

 6     that village when you were born?

 7        A.   Yes, they lived in a communal household.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  How many brothers did your father have?

 9        A.   Two.

10        Q.   Thank you.  When did your father leave or move from that village;

11     and if he -- and if so, where did he go?

12        A.   An interesting question I would say.  In 1956, when I was only 2,

13     my grandfather, with my father and two uncles and other members of the

14     family, sold their property and moved to Peje, to Karagaq neighbourhood.

15        Q.   Thank you.  What was your father's occupation?

16        A.   During the time we lived in Novoselle, Gjakova municipality, he

17     worked in the primary school at Novoselle e Ulet school, then at the

18     primary school of Carrabreg in Decane.  When we moved to Peje, he was a

19     worker, a manual worker, in a factory in Peje.

20        Q.   Thank you.  Could you please tell me when and where did you

21     complete your high school, or rather, intermediate education, the

22     technical school that you attended.

23        A.   In Prizren.  I was there in 1969 as far as I remember, and

24     completed secondary school in Peje.  I don't remember for the moment the

25     name of the school.  I graduated in Peje.

Page 3766

 1        Q.   Thank you.  When reading your statements I found out that you did

 2     not serve in the army.  Could you tell us why not?

 3        A.   I wasn't summoned, and I did not go there to volunteer.

 4        Q.   You mean in the SFRY you were not -- you did not receive call-up

 5     papers, and you were not recruited?

 6        A.   In these 55 years of my life, I was never recruited.  Maybe they

 7     did send a summon, an invitation, to go and complete my military service,

 8     but I didn't receive it.  I didn't receive the call-up.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  Tell us, when did you get married?

10        A.   If I'm not mistaken, in 1970 or 1971 [as interpreted].

11        Q.   Thank you.  And your wife's family never inquired whether you had

12     served in the army?

13        A.   Unfortunately, they were not the ones who were asked about our

14     marriage.  We loved each other, and we didn't ask much when we got

15     married.

16        Q.   Thank you.  But in our parts - and I mean that includes Pec and

17     Djakovica - they say, He who is not fit for the army is not fit for

18     marriage either, and that was always taken into account.

19        A.   Your Honours, can I reply to this question or assertion with your

20     permission?

21             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes.

22             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Let's go out together, take me

23     somewhere, and we can agree on that.

24             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

25        Q.   All right.  When we finish this.

Page 3767

 1             Tell me, when did you find employment?

 2        A.   I started work in 1976 as a building inspector in Gjakove.

 3        Q.   You mean the municipality of Djakovica?

 4        A.   [Previous translation continues]...

 5        Q.   Thank you.  And then they didn't ask you whether you served in

 6     the army either?

 7        A.   [Previous translation continues]...  I didn't then.

 8             No, not even then.

 9        Q.   After that job, when did you find another one?

10        A.   I worked in Peje commune with contracts.  The former secretariat

11     for communal works, Aco was his name, I don't recall his last name, he

12     employed us but with a contract.  We worked there -- I worked there again

13     as a building inspector, construction inspector.

14        Q.   As of what year?

15        A.   I am sorry, but I am not certain about the year.  It was before

16     1998, that's for sure.  It was before 1998.

17        Q.   Thank you.  In the times of the SFRY, were you a member of the

18     League of Communists?

19        A.   No, I was never a member.  I didn't have a card.

20        Q.   Thank you.  And after 1990 or 1991, at the introduction of the

21     multi-party system, did you become a member of any of the political

22     parties?

23        A.   Which party are you talking about?

24        Q.   Any.  After 1991 the multi-party system was introduced.

25        A.   Yes, I understand now.  I was a member of the

Page 3768

 1     Democratic League of Kosova party, and after three or four years I am a

 2     member of the Presidency of the Christian Democratic Party of Kosova and

 3     member of the Presidency of the Peje branchs for this party.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  Could you tell me, who was the president of the

 5     Christian Democratic Party of Kosovo when you were a member of the

 6     Presidency from Pec?

 7        A.   The distinguished academician, Mark Krasniqi.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  You've just said, and I also saw from the statements,

 9     that you were married and you had four children, including two sons.

10     Tell me about your son Ndue, what was his occupation?

11        A.   At what time are you asking me about?

12        Q.   Well, let me first ask you a precise question:  What kind of

13     schooling did he have?

14        A.   He finished high school.

15        Q.   Thank you.  Did he find -- did he have a job before he left for

16     Switzerland?

17        A.   No.

18        Q.   Thank you.  And when did Ndue leave for Switzerland?

19        A.   I sent Ndue to Switzerland, as far as I remember, in 1999

20     together with Ilir, my uncle's son.  They went through various routes

21     until they reached there.

22        Q.   And do you remember what season it was, what time of the year in

23     1999 when you sent him there?

24        A.   It was either spring or summer.  I'm not sure.  I don't know for

25     sure.

Page 3769

 1        Q.   Thank you.  How about your son Bashkim, what schools did he

 2     complete?

 3        A.   He finished the eight-year school.

 4        Q.   Did he work after the primary school?

 5        A.   Before he was 14, he went to my brother in Norway and he lives

 6     with him.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  What year was that?

 8        A.   It was in December 1990.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  And what is the name of your brother, he's your

10     brother, not cousin; right?

11        A.   I have five brothers.  Whom do you ask me about?

12        Q.   The one in Norway.

13        A.   His name is Gasper.

14        Q.   Did your son Bashkim return to Pec in 1999?

15        A.   No, he didn't, because he didn't have proper papers to be able to

16     travel.  He hadn't gotten his nationality yet at that time, a

17     citizenship.

18        Q.   Thank you.

19             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] May I call up the

20     Defence Exhibit D002-6056.

21        Q.   Mr. Konaj, this is an aerial view -- this is an aerial view of

22     Pec together with Lodja.  Can you recognise it?

23        A.   No, I can't see anything I know.  Loxhe, yes, now I see it.  This

24     is where I live in the vicinity of Loxhe marked with A.

25        Q.   May I ask you to mark the place with a marker that you will be

Page 3770

 1     given.

 2        A.   It's here.

 3        Q.   [Previous translation continues]...  place where your house used

 4     to be.

 5        A.   If this is the main road Peje-Decan, here -- this line here.

 6     This is the main road, Peje-Decan road.  But as the crow flies it's 1 and

 7     a half kilometres.  If you walk, it's 5 to 6 kilometres.  I was wrong

 8     here.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  You are a building technician, so please do it

10     precisely on this nice map.  Will you please put a number 1 to mark the

11     location of your house.

12        A.   Now I'm getting older and my hand isn't as firm as it used to be.

13     If someone can help me, is this the Peje-Decan road?  If someone shows me

14     that this is the road, then I can tell you approximately where the house

15     is.

16        Q.   Mr. Konaj, you put this dot, or several dots, on the map and said

17     it was your house, this one that is --

18        A.   [Previous translation continues]...

19        Q.   -- fuller --

20        A.   I said to you that I made a mistake because --

21        Q.   If this is a mistake, then let's wait a minute.

22             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we erase this?  Thank you.

23        Q.   Let's try again, Mr. Konaj.  First of all, your house, put a dot

24     there and number 1.

25        A.   I can't find my bearings because I need to know where the main

Page 3771

 1     road Peje-Decan is.  I don't want to repeat the same mistake, so please

 2     let me or someone may help me indicate where the road is.

 3        Q.   Mr. Konaj, do you see Pec here at the top of the picture and the

 4     road that goes out of it?  All right.  We'll come back to it later.

 5             Let's first go to Lodja.

 6             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] May I ask for D002-6057.

 7        Q.   Mr. Konaj, you can probably understand the ground perspective

 8     much better.

 9        A.   I see here the village of Loxhe, something else.

10        Q.   Can you tell us -- we see Lodja village and several settlements

11     around it.  Are there different hamlets within Lodja village; and if

12     there are, please tell us where they are.

13        A.   I don't know their hamlets.  I don't know that.  It has greatly

14     changed now because there are many new constructions.

15        Q.   And do you know where Brezanik is?

16        A.   Berzhanik should be --

17        Q.   [Previous translation continues]...  here?

18        A.   -- on this side here, a little bit higher.  The shoe factory

19     further on, yes, it must be higher than here.

20        Q.   All right.  So we can't see Brezanik here.  Tell me then, did you

21     know where the Vujosevic house was in Lodja?

22        A.   No.

23        Q.   Did you know that family from Brezanik?

24        A.   The last name is familiar, but this particular person you are

25     asking me, I don't know.  What was he doing?  What kind of work did he

Page 3772

 1     do?

 2        Q.   Thank you.  I didn't tell you the name of the person.  I only

 3     asking you about the Vujosevic family.  The name is Srdjan Vujosevic, if

 4     you know him.

 5        A.   No, no.

 6        Q.   All right.  Thank you.  So this is the broader view of Lodja.

 7             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we go back now to document

 8     D002-6056.

 9        Q.   That is the same thing seen from a greater distance and you

10     should see your house?

11        A.   [Previous translation continues]...  house here, neither in the

12     first map.

13        Q.   Now, Mr. Konaj, you see how much broader this is.  You can see

14     everything from Lodja to Pec, and you see the main road that we had seen

15     previously.

16        A.   This is what I can't find, the main road.

17        Q.   Let me ask you this:  Look to the left of this map.  In the left

18     corner, what is this feature?  It's huge.

19        A.   It is Italian village.

20        Q.   Thank you.  Do you know -- do you see this road going uphill

21     towards Pec from the Italian village?

22        A.   Yes.

23        Q.   Right.  Parallel to it do you see this one going by Lodja, is it

24     going to Decani?

25        A.   No, this is -- the one near Loxhe doesn't go in the direction of

Page 3773

 1     Decan.  It goes in the middle -- between the Italian village and Loxhe

 2     there is the main road that goes in the direction of Peje, but I can't

 3     see the road here, unless this -- there is this one here.

 4        Q.   Do you see on the right something going from the Italian village,

 5     a road going south from Pec by the Italian village south?

 6        A.   I apologise, but I can't find my bearings here in this map.

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  I think, Mr. Djurdjic, we may have exhausted the

 8     possibilities here.  The witness many times has said he cannot locate

 9     himself on this map.

10             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] All right.  Let's move on.

11        Q.   Mr. Konaj, in which settlement is your house and your brother's

12     house, the houses that you left in 1998 to move into your father's house

13     in Pec?

14        A.   We called it Bellopoje.  Bellopoje is a village where the Serbs

15     and the Montenegrins used to live.  Now the main road used to be called

16     JNA, that is, the Yugoslav Army.  They changed the names twice.  Now it's

17     called KLA 149, but at that time we used to call it Bel lopoje.  Now they

18     call it Dardanija 1.

19        Q.   Since we are talking about 1998 and 1999, let us use these terms,

20     and if different terms were used in the statements, we'll deal with that.

21     So this is Dardanija.  Tell me, where was the house of Ana Konaj and who

22     is Ana Konaj?

23        A.   Ana Konaj is my mother, the late one.  Her house was also my

24     house.

25        Q.   Did I understand this correctly, that's the house in Dardanija?

Page 3774

 1        A.   I don't want to misunderstand you or you me.  I said first it was

 2     called Bellopoje, Dardania, and many times they have changed the names.

 3     Now it's called KLA UCK 149, and it's a main road.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  So regardless of the name change, that's the same

 5     house in that location, all the three names are the same thing?

 6        A.   This is where the houses were looted.

 7        Q.   Is your brother's house nearby as well?

 8        A.   Yes, we lived in the same compound, let's say, in the same

 9     courtyard.

10        Q.   And what's the name of that brother?

11        A.   Pren Konaj is his name.

12        Q.   Thank you.  In 1999, was he in Pec when the war started?

13        A.   From 1993 my brothers were not living there.  Only myself and my

14     family was living there.

15        Q.   Thank you.  And where was Pren?

16        A.   He was in Switzerland.

17        Q.   Thank you.  Was he a member of any political organisation; and if

18     so, which one?

19        A.   They didn't have regular papers to come here.  He was not

20     registered or -- in any particular one, but he has contributed.  Now he

21     is LDK member.

22        Q.   From Bijelo Polje to Lodja, how far is it by road?

23        A.   If you go by the main road, it may take 5 or 6 kilometres,

24     whereas as the crow flies, it's not more than 1.5 kilometres.  From where

25     I live, I can see the entire Loxhe.

Page 3775

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Was your house on higher ground?

 2        A.   Yes, it is on a higher ground, and the house is tall.  I used --

 3     I build them before the war, and from there you can see Loxhe.  I had a

 4     smaller house on the back.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  And how far is it from this house where you lived to

 6     your father's house and your uncle's house?

 7        A.   Are you talking about the house in the town where my parents

 8     live?

 9        Q.   Yes.

10        A.   Not more than 3 kilometres.

11        Q.   One last question before the break.  Can you mark that house in

12     Pec on this image, if it is visible, the place where the family house was

13     and the uncle's house.

14        A.   I can't see the centre here.  I can't locate even the military

15     barracks.

16             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I think it's time

17     for the break.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  Very well.

19             We must have the first break now.  We resume at 11.00.

20                           --- Recess taken at 10.31 a.m.

21                           --- On resuming at 11.06 a.m.

22             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.

23             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.

24        Q.   Mr. Konaj, do you remember that on the 12th of June, 2001, you

25     made -- you gave a statement to an investigator of the Tribunal?

Page 3776

 1        A.   In general I know that I did give statements, but I know [as

 2     interpreted] which one in particular you're referring to.  As I said, I

 3     gave two or three statements?

 4        Q.   Thank you.  This was a statement provided to Mr. Clifford Smith

 5     on the 12th of June, 2001.  And in this statement on page 8 it says this

 6     statement of five pages was read back to me in the Albanian language and

 7     consists everything that I've said to the best of my knowledge and

 8     recollection; is that correct?

 9        A.   If you're referring to the statement in front of me, it is true

10     that it is my statement -- or maybe I have a different one before me.  It

11     is true that I did give a statement, but I don't recall everything

12     because it is in English, the statement.

13        Q.   Yes, we also have a translation into Albanian, and you've signed

14     the statement in the English version but there is also a translation into

15     Albanian following this English version.

16        A.   I have the Albanian version.

17             JUDGE PARKER:  So the transcript is clear, Mr. Djurdjic, you're

18     referring to Exhibit P670?  Thank you.

19             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.  That's

20     correct.

21             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, I remember it.  Yes.

22             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

23        Q.   Thank you.  Well, let's take care of the administrative matters

24     at the outset.  So your first -- you first made or gave a statement, or

25     rather, previously you also gave a statement on the 19th of April, 1999,

Page 3777

 1     to Mr. Garry Selsky.  Do you remember?

 2        A.   Yes, I remember Garry Selsky, I gave a statement to him in

 3     Albania.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  We will return to these two statements, but let's now

 5     start with the statement you provided in 2001, and specifically

 6     paragraph 3.  Can you tell me, please, whether you were in Bijelo Polje

 7     in early June in 1998 in your own house?

 8        A.   Yes.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  Can you tell me when you and your wife left the house

10     in Bijelo Polje and went to the house in Pec?

11        A.   I had removed my mother and my daughters earlier and sent them to

12     my father's house in Karagaq, and one night before Lodja was attacked, it

13     was a Saturday, maybe the 5th, I'm not quite sure.  Upon my wife

14     insisting on moving from there, we left the house and went to Karagaq

15     neighbourhood.

16        Q.   Thank you.  Now, if this happened on the 5th when you left, can

17     you tell us when you took your mother and daughters from the house in

18     Bijelo Polje?

19        A.   Several days prior to this date.  We were the only ones still

20     living there in that neighbourhood.

21        Q.   Thank you.

22             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we now please have on the

23     screens D002-6040, page 2.

24        Q.   Mr. Konaj, do you recognise this area that we see in front of us?

25        A.   Beneath the photograph I read what it says, the text, and

Page 3778

 1     therefore I can tell it's part of Loxhe.  However, I do not recognise the

 2     location depicted on the photograph.

 3        Q.   Thank you.

 4             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we now please see photograph

 5     number 3.  I apologise.  If this was photo number 2, then I would like to

 6     see number 3.  All right, you can leave this image on the screens.

 7        Q.   Can you recognise this landscape now?

 8        A.   No, I don't recognise the landscape; but I read the caption, and

 9     it says the village of Loxhe.

10        Q.   Thank you, Witness.  I asked you -- I know that you can

11     understand and read Serbian, but I just wanted to see if you could

12     recognise this location that's depicted in the -- in the photograph.

13     Thank you.

14             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could I now have D002-6064.  I may

15     have misspoken.  D002-6040.  No, that's the exhibit that I've already --

16     the one we've just seen.  I apologise.  So 6044.  Page 5, please.

17        Q.   Mr. Konaj, do you recognise this building?

18        A.   No.

19        Q.   Thank you.

20             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Page 6 on the screens.

21        Q.   Can you recognise anything now?

22        A.   No.

23             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we now please have page 7.

24        Q.   Can you recognise this?

25        A.   No.

Page 3779

 1             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] And now page 8, please.

 2        Q.   Do you recognise anything here, Mr. Konaj?

 3        A.   I see that the same building is depicted on the photograph, but I

 4     don't recognise it.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Konaj, have you heard that on the

 6     6th of June, 1998, at 5.00 in the morning in Brezanik village, the house

 7     of the Vujosevic family was attacked and that this attack lasted two

 8     hours until a police patrol arrived?  And that on this occasion the KLA

 9     took prisoner -- took as prisoner a policeman Perovic and another one and

10     that two police officers were killed.  Have you heard of that?

11        A.   No, I did not hear of that.  I know that it was a Sunday when

12     Loxhe was attacked, and we could hear gun-fire.

13        Q.   Thank you.  Just to tell you that those first photographs we saw

14     were the -- depicted the trenches that we -- that were found there.  And

15     the other one was -- the other photographs were those of the house that

16     was attacked by mortars, hand-held launchers.

17             And now I would like to read something to you:

18             "The fighting in Lodja built strong morale and a myth that there

19     is a super-strong army which was -- which was comprised of soldiers of

20     the 134th Brigade, fighters from Lodja near Morina, and volunteers who

21     arrived from other villages.  The enemy abandoned their tanks in the

22     battle-field and began to withdraw from the barracks and the city of Pec,

23     considering that Pec, too, had fallen.  Aware that we did not have

24     sufficient forces and arms to defend the city, we decided to fortify

25     mined and strengthen Lodja so that it would become an insurpassable

Page 3780

 1     feature for the enemy and they couldn't get through."

 2             Have you ever heard this -- of this before, what I've just read

 3     out?

 4        A.   It was impossible for me to hear or read something about that.

 5     What I know is that that was a severe attack on the village of Loxhe.  It

 6     was even bombed from air in addition to ground attacks.  I wasn't there

 7     on the spot, but we could hear the gun-fire because Loxhe is nearby where

 8     we live.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  On the 11th of July, 1998, the Serbian army, police,

10     and paramilitary forces attacked Strellc.  They immediately mobilised

11     some personnel --

12             THE INTERPRETER:  The interpreter could not catch the names.

13             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] -- who was in charge of that

14     territory, and I followed the entire operation by way of a 16-channel

15     Motorola which I personally captured during the fighting in Lodja.  The

16     enemy abandoned two --

17             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic, what is it you are reading from?

18             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] This is -- I was going to say

19     where I was reading from.  This is from a book by Mr. Arber Ahmetaj and

20     Sefedjin Krasniqi:  "Thus Spoke Tahir Zemaj, Part II."

21             JUDGE PARKER:  I do not see the purpose of what you are doing at

22     the moment.  If the witness is familiar with the book, he may be able to

23     verify its contents; if he isn't familiar with the book, he may be able

24     to say, I know something about that.  But at the moment so far in his

25     evidence he shows no sign of any familiarity at all with the subject

Page 3781

 1     matter.  So why are you continuing to quote passages from this book to

 2     the witness?

 3             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.  This was

 4     the last paragraph that I was going to quote, the reason being that in

 5     the last sentence of this paragraph there is something, a reference to

 6     the witness statement, this witness's statement, regarding the situation

 7     in the field in Lodja.  The portion that says:

 8             "After the fighting when a relative peace set in, some heros

 9     appeared who were boasting about how many Serbs they had killed or how

10     many houses they had searched and looted."

11        Q.   And to clarify, sir, I've already mentioned this book - and this

12     was on pages 92 and 95 of this book - and it refers to your --

13             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic, if you are saying that there is

14     something in that book which is based upon the statement of this witness,

15     you should put that particular issue to him and see whether he agrees he

16     made the words or is aware that his statement was used in the book.

17     Otherwise, the book is of no use at all in these proceedings.  And it's

18     the bit that relates to him which should be the subject of your

19     questioning.

20             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

21        Q.   Mr. Konaj, have you heard of or read this second part of the

22     book, "The Conversation With Mr. Zemaj," that I've just read out here?

23        A.   I did not read this book.  I know that the book was published.

24     It was put to me in my previous testimony that I published the book.  I

25     didn't do that.  I only know that it was published, but I never read the

Page 3782

 1     book itself.

 2             Your Honour, I have a request.

 3             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes.

 4             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] As far as I know, I've been called

 5     to testify here about the statement that I gave in Albania regarding the

 6     situation of the population in Peje at the time.  The questions of

 7     Mr. Djurdjic I would like to be focused on the statements that I gave

 8     earlier.

 9             Secondly, he put to me that what they say in our parts, Those who

10     are not fit for army are not fit for marriage, and that really hurt me.

11     The question I put now is:  How come I have four children with my own

12     wife?  I was married in 1973 not in 1971, as it is recorded here.  This

13     is the clarification I wanted to make.  Thank you.

14             JUDGE PARKER:  I'm sure, Mr. Konaj, that the reference to your

15     marriage is one that was not intended as you have understood it.  In any

16     event, frankly it seems to have nothing to do with the issues in this

17     case.

18             Insofar as you may be questioned about some matters that are

19     outside the scope of your statement, it is for this Chamber to determine

20     whether Mr. Djurdjic is going into irrelevant areas; and where that

21     occurs, we will stop the questions.

22             Now, Mr. Djurdjic, we were at the point where the witness has

23     indicated with respect to the book that although he knew of it, he hadn't

24     published it and he's never read it.  Now, I think that puts an end to

25     the questioning about the book.  Now, do you have some other matter now

Page 3783

 1     you wish to ask about?

 2             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.  I have

 3     finished with that topic anyway, and I was about to move to a new one.

 4        Q.   Mr. Konaj, I am really sorry.  I had no intention of offending

 5     you.  When I quoted our popular saying, I was only inquiring how it was

 6     possible that you were never called up into the army.  I never meant to

 7     hurt you.  And if you feel hurt, I sincerely apologise.  And you must

 8     know it was never intended that way.  But this last thing I put to you

 9     has to do a part of your statement, paragraph 3 in fact.  That's the

10     passage from your 1998 statement, and I had come to a point --

11             JUDGE PARKER:  Did you mean 1998?

12             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] 1999, in fact, when he gave his

13     first statement in Tirana, relating to events from 1998, that is, after

14     what happened in Lodja.

15        Q.   And that is, Mr. Konaj, the part where you left to your father's,

16     that is, uncle's house, and heard that the police had been to look for

17     you.  Is that correct?

18        A.   Yes, that's correct.  I was with a friend of mine who was the

19     principal of the school in Peje, Shaqir Studenica is his name.  And we

20     parted.  He went to his home, I went to my home; but on the way I stopped

21     at a coffee shop and then Shaqir came and told me that my daughter had

22     called him, asking him to tell me to go home immediately because

23     something had happened.  We set off for home on two bikes to my father's

24     home.  In the vicinity of the mosque I asked him, What has happened?

25     Tell me, please.  Have they killed someone?  He said, They have killed

Page 3784

 1     someone but have left the corpse in your house, in Bellopoje.  The police

 2     came to my house.  That is true.

 3        Q.   [Previous translation continues]...  and you went to the police

 4     in Pec with your uncle, if I'm not mistaken?

 5        A.   That's correct.  They had left instructions that if I didn't

 6     report, they would come back at any time to make sure that I went back.

 7     It was 4.00 in the afternoon when I went back.  About 5.00 we went to the

 8     police.  It was on the second floor of the building that we went to if I

 9     remember right.

10        Q.   Mr. Konaj, were you advised on that occasion -- occasion that in

11     the courtyard of Ana Konaj in Brezanik on the 6th of July, 1998, a body

12     was found, a female body?

13        A.   That's why the police came to my father's house and looked for

14     the owner where I used to live in the new house in Bellopoje.  That's why

15     they went to search for us there, and that's why I went to the police.

16     Initially they took my uncle and asked him to identify the corpse; but

17     when we went, it was in the afternoon.

18        Q.   Thank you.  So the police were interested only because a woman

19     who happened to be in your house in Brezanik was killed?

20        A.   When they entered my uncle's house, he was there with his two

21     daughters watching television.  They addressed him with these words, as

22     he told me.  They didn't know my name and they said to him, In the house

23     of your brother's son, someone -- a policeman was killed.  Then they

24     said, Someone was killed.  Then you have to come and identify the corpse.

25     When he went there he saw that there was an old woman whom later I

Page 3785

 1     realised it was Marlise [as interpreted] Hoti's mother, and they were my

 2     neighbours.

 3        Q.   And finally was it established that it was a person from

 4     Ivangrad?

 5        A.   I am sorry, but it was established that she was my neighbour, two

 6     houses away from mine, Marlise's mother.  I don't know if she is from

 7     Ivangrad to this day but I know that she is a Bosnian and that to this

 8     day her sons live there as my neighbours.

 9        Q.   Was her name Hoti, Nazmije?  That is Nazmije Hoti?

10        A.   Yes.  We used to call her "Tota Naze."

11        Q.   Thank you.  Would I be right in saying that you did not see

12     personally how your house was damaged in 1998 and Bijelo Polje, that is,

13     in Brezanik?

14        A.   It is as you say.  It was after three or four days, I'm not sure,

15     that with my friend Shaqir they had recognised an inspector who used to

16     work in the SUP from Raushiq I think.  I didn't mention this detail

17     before.  They took us with two cars.  He came with his own car, my friend

18     with his own car.  We went to the house and we took pictures.  My friend

19     Shaqir Studenica said to the inspector, You simply had to use a match to

20     set fire to what had remained.  Very little had remained of the house.

21        Q.   Thank you.  I think the photographs are part of your statement,

22     so we can see exactly what remained of the house.

23             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] May I now call up

24     Defence Exhibit D002-6058.  Can we zoom in.

25        Q.   Mr. Konaj, this is an image of Pec.  Could you show us your

Page 3786

 1     father's and your uncle's house?

 2        A.   There are many houses here, and it's difficult for me to identify

 3     them.  It was what we call Domi i Armales, above, Domi i Armales.

 4     Dom Armije we call, army's house.  From there it's not more than

 5     50 metres.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  Pec is a large town, Mr. Konaj.  I'm not asking you

 7     to show me the house, but the area in which your house was.

 8        A.   The centre of the town, in the centre, across the centre, used to

 9     be this army's house.  Above it is Kulla e Sheremetit, and then comes my

10     house, my father's house.  I'm telling you, it's difficult for me to

11     identify the centre here.

12        Q.   You can't identify even the centre of the hotel where the

13     Metohija Hotel was and the court?

14        A.   Frankly speaking, I cannot.  I can't see it here.  I cannot

15     locate it precisely.

16        Q.   You don't recognise a single feature here?

17        A.   It seems to me that here is Soliter.  I think Soliter must be

18     here.  If I'm not mistaken, Soliter is here.

19        Q.   Thank you.  Will you put a number 1 there and explain what you

20     just said about this skyscraper, Soliter you call it.

21        A.   It's a 12-storey building across the SUP building or former

22     SUP -- at least this is what seems to me to be.  It's a building,

23     12-storey building, we used to call -- even now we call it Soliter.

24        Q.   Thank you.  Relative to that building, where was your father's

25     and uncle's house?

Page 3787

 1        A.   Relative to that building, then on the left-hand side, if I'm not

 2     mistaken, this part looks like the centre.  Then the house must be here,

 3     somewhere here, my father's house, that is.

 4        Q.   Could you put an X in the area of Pec where your father's house

 5     could be?

 6        A.   I'm not very sure, but it must be here.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  Could you put a number 2 there.

 8             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] And we'll note that it's the

 9     witness's father's house.

10        Q.   Relative to your father's house, could you mark Kameni Most, the

11     stone bridge -- or let us take it slowly.  What is closer, because there

12     are several features, is the bus station somewhere near?

13        A.   I'm telling you that I'm not very sure about what I am marking

14     here.  If the Soliter is here, then on the right side is a bus station;

15     then on the left side where I put 2, if this is the centre, is my

16     father's house.  Ura e Gurit must be 150 metres from my father's house.

17     Stone bridge on the right side.

18        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Konaj.  Of course you can't mark the exact place,

19     but in order to be able to understand your statement and your movements

20     better, just mark it -- show us these buildings approximately.  Could you

21     mark the bus station, for instance, first?

22        A.   I'm repeating what I put 1 on the right side, approximately here

23     must be the bus station, if Soliter is where I think it is, but I'm not

24     sure.  I'm surprised at myself for not being able to locate these

25     features.

Page 3788

 1        Q.   Could you find the Catholic church?

 2        A.   On the right-hand side, near patriarchate, which is not more than

 3     250, 300 metres away.

 4        Q.   Could you then please write -- that is, mark the patriarchy.

 5        A.   I apologise with -- because I am simply making suppositions here.

 6     I'm not 100 per cent sure.  I'm repeating it.

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  I fear, Mr. Djurdjic, we're not getting anywhere.

 8     We've had two successful markings, but the witness keeps repeating he's

 9     not sure if they are correct.  And he is not able to identify any other

10     location you have mentioned, none of which, as far as I can tell, are

11     mentioned in the statement.

12             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, all the locations

13     mentioned were referred to in the statement.  I have five or six more

14     locations I wanted to ask him about but -- all right.  Never mind.

15        Q.   I've been to Pec ten times, Mr. Konaj, and I can see the

16     patriarchy, that is, the Orthodox bishopric, but all right, never mind.

17     You don't need to look at the map anymore.

18             Did you own a passenger vehicle in March 1999?

19        A.   Not one but two.

20        Q.   Where were they?

21        A.   I had an Audi 80, black colour.  I kept that at my father's

22     house, and they destroyed it there, and they brought it to me on the 28th

23     in the centre of Peje, and I gave them some money for that.

24        Q.   And how about the second vehicle?

25        A.   It was also the same mark, Audi 80.  It was white colour.  I went

Page 3789

 1     to Ulqin with it in 1998 together with my neighbour with both my Audis.

 2     I left the white Audi there, and I used the black one to return home.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  Tell me, what are paramilitary forces?  How do you

 4     understand that term?

 5        A.   The usual Yugoslav Army, the regular army, had one solid-colour

 6     uniform, green one.  By paramilitaries we refer to the people dressed in

 7     camouflage uniforms or camouflage trousers and T-shirt above and so on.

 8     Members who comprised Peje inhabitants, those that joined such forces,

 9     this is what we called paramilitaries.

10        Q.   Thank you.  Do you know what military reserve is?

11        A.   I have explained even earlier that I was not -- I didn't do my

12     military service, but I knew that there were military reservists.  This

13     is all I know.

14        Q.   Do you think there is a difference between reserve military

15     forces and active military forces?

16        A.   What can I say?  I know that the active military forces should

17     abide by discipline in their service, whereas those that you call

18     reservists mobilise in case of need.

19        Q.   Do you know at the beginning of the war or at the run-up to the

20     war, was there a mobilisation call-up?

21        A.   No.

22        Q.   Can you exclude the possibility that these persons whom you call

23     paramilitary units were in fact a military reserve unit?

24        A.   I do not exclude that possibility, but I have seen also my

25     neighbours, Peje inhabitants, who were dressed in those camouflage

Page 3790

 1     uniforms.  And I saw them armed, wandering around the streets of Peje and

 2     in the Catholic cemeteries and in the Muslim one.

 3        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Konaj.  In paragraph 10 of your 2001 statement,

 4     you state the following:

 5             "When we arrived at the petrol station, there were two Pinzgauers

 6     there, one military and one police Pinzgauer."

 7             That part of the statement is missing from when you first gave a

 8     statement in 1999.

 9        A.   I don't know whether that is missing or not.  I don't know

10     whether that question was asked of me or whether the interpreter has

11     interpreted my answer.  I don't know that.  But the fact is that once we

12     passed the stone bridge there are some steps and there was a gas station

13     which is still today some 25 metres away from there.  And it is true that

14     there were two Pinzgauers there, one police, one military.

15        Q.   Thank you, I believe those petrol stations are still there.  I'm

16     just saying that this reference is missing from the 1999 statement, but

17     let's move on.  In paragraph 18 from your 2001 statement, I'd like you to

18     explain one thing.  You said:

19             "I asked Salih Dreshaj to give a ride to my mother and my

20     mother-in-law."

21             Did he do that?

22        A.   I didn't say at Salih Dreshaj's place.  On the 27th to the 28th

23     we went to Salih Dreshaj's house, who is my best man.  The following day,

24     I told Salih Dreshaj's son, Riza, to take my mother and my mother-in-law

25     with him in the car.  He didn't want to, but I kind of forced him to take

Page 3791

 1     the two old women with him because they were not feeling well.  So Riza

 2     left with his wife and his children and my mother and my mother-in-law in

 3     his car, whereas we, the others, walked.  This is when we left that

 4     place.  I didn't say that my -- that Salih took me to the place where my

 5     mother was.  My mother was with me all the time.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  You've explained that all, and that's what is stated

 7     also in your statement, and now I have had the clarification as well.

 8     Now, in paragraph 19 you said:

 9             "We left the house and joined the crowd leaving Salih behind."

10             Is that correct?

11             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic, the witness hasn't got the statement

12     in front of him, and the reason for that is that we still have on the

13     screen the Google aerial photograph of Pec.  Do you want those two

14     markings preserved as an exhibit or not?

15             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, since the witness

16     wasn't sure of what he was marking, I do not suggest that we enter this

17     into evidence.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.  It can be removed then, and we'll

19     bring up the statement so that the witness can follow your questions more

20     clearly.

21             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.  This is

22     Exhibit P670.

23             Your Honour --

24             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter correction.

25             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

Page 3792

 1        Q.   Witness, what I would like to ask you about now is on page 6, of

 2     the Albanian version, paragraph 20, or rather, page 6, the second

 3     paragraph from the bottom.  And in the English version this is on page 4,

 4     one, two, three, four, the fifth paragraph from the top.  So:

 5             "We left the house, joined the crowds, leaving Salih there."

 6             Is that correct, Mr. Konaj?

 7        A.   Yes.  He left his father there because I forced his son to take

 8     my mother and mother-in-law in his car.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  Now I would like to direct you to paragraph 23.  In

10     the Albanian version that's on page 7, from the top, the third paragraph,

11     "around 1900 hours," and in the English version this would be on page 4.

12     From the bottom, the second paragraph.

13             Mr. Konaj, you say here:

14             "About 7.00 p.m. three military tanks entered the centre of town.

15     One was being towed by another.  Two of these tanks pointed their barrels

16     towards the people.  It caused great fear.  The tanks left both 2000

17     hours and the lights in the city went out.  The sky was clear.  There was

18     a moon."

19             Now, this entire paragraph is missing from your statement of

20     1999.

21        A.   It is true that these two tanks came.  One was being towed by

22     another, probably was not working properly.  People were displaced, that

23     is also true.  It is also true that one of them manning the tank was

24     rotating the barrel of the tank.  It is true that it caused great fear.

25     I personally was in fear let alone the children and the women.

Page 3793

 1        Q.   Mr. Konaj, my question was related to what you have read to us,

 2     that this was not mentioned in April 1999, in your statement, which was

 3     some 20 days after the event.

 4        A.   I don't know how that could happen, but I know very well that I

 5     gave a statement for nine hours or so in Albania.  I am quite sure that I

 6     mentioned this on that occasion, and that's why the representative of

 7     this honoured Court insisted on the details of the places, where I

 8     stayed, what happened and so on.  So I'm quite surprised how this passage

 9     did not enter that statement of 1999.

10        Q.   Thank you.  Now I'd like to refer you to paragraph 25 of your

11     2001 statement, that's the portion relating to Miki Stojanovic.  Again

12     Miki is mentioned.  When in 1999 you gave your statement, you said the

13     following about Mr. Stojanovic:

14             "I recognised a Serb in civilian clothes.  His name was

15     Miki Stojanovic and nicknamed Lapoc.  He was a cafe owner in the

16     neighbourhood called Piskote just outside Gjakove.  He was a man who

17     gave -- he didn't -- he wasn't doing anything, he just stood there."

18             Whereas in paragraph 25 of this statement, the 2001 statement,

19     you say:

20             "I recognised one of the Serbs in civilian clothes.  His name was

21     Miki Stojanovic, nicknamed Lapoc.  He was the owner of a cafe in the

22     neighbourhood called Piskote just outside Djakovica.  He was the man who

23     gave the order to separate the men from the others.  I have been told

24     that in my first statement I said that Lapoc did not say anything.  This

25     must be an interpretation error because he was definitely the man who

Page 3794

 1     gave the order, although it was not carried out."

 2             So where does this discrepancy come from related to this person

 3     in your two statements?

 4        A.   Again, I have no idea why this mistake occurred.  It is true that

 5     I knew Miki Stojanovic from before.  I used to work with his brother in

 6     Gjakove municipality.  It is true that he was there; he was dressed in

 7     civilian clothes.  Sometimes the interpretation is done very fast and

 8     sentences can be slightly changed.  It is true that he was dressed in

 9     civilian clothes.  He approached the driver of the bus where I was with

10     my family and other people, and he said to the driver, All the men should

11     get off the bus and come out.

12             So the driver - I'm calling him a soldier because he was dressed

13     in uniform - said to him, I have my orders, and I'm not allowing you to

14     get anyone off this bus.  There was a truck covered with tarpaulin in

15     front of the bus.  They were dressed in camouflaged uniforms.  Whoever

16     they caught, they beat them with their rifle-butts, and the blood could

17     be seen even on the --

18        Q.   [Previous translation continues]...  meet again --

19        A.   [Previous translation continues]...  bus where we were.  And the

20     police said to the driver, We will see once you're back here.

21        Q.   Thank you.  In paragraph 27 of your 2001 statement you state:

22             "When we arrived there about 1.00 to 1.30 a.m., we stopped at the

23     junction that leads to Vermice.  The driver told us to get off and said,

24     Go to Albania.  This is not your place.  This is great Serbia.  They

25     turned the buses and trucks around and drove away."

Page 3795

 1             In your 1999 statement, there is no mention of this.

 2        A.   Again, this surprises me.  It is true what he said to us, There's

 3     no place for you here, this is Serbia, go to your own country, go to

 4     Albania.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  One more thing, in paragraph 29 of your

 6     12th June 2001 statement you say:

 7             "The men were searched and the women's purses were checked."

 8             This is a reference to the time when you were on the border.

 9     This too is missing from your 1999 statement.

10        A.   Again, it surprises me how come I did not mention that.  It is

11     true that we were told at the border to throw all our personal

12     documentation in that box.  It is true that they searched the bags of the

13     women.  I pretended to have thrown my ID in the box; but, in fact, I

14     didn't throw it, and I still have it.

15        Q.   Thank you.

16             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, the witness

17     statement of 19th April 1999, which is a Defence document, D002-6026, I

18     move to have it adopted into evidence.

19             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

20             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be assigned D00093, Your Honours.

21             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

22        Q.   Mr. Konaj, I apologise once again.  It was not my intention to

23     offend you.  These were all the questions I had for you today.

24             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.  My

25     cross-examination is over.

Page 3796

 1             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you, Mr. Djurdjic.

 2             Ms. Gopalan, re-examination?

 3             MS. GOPALAN:  Yes, Your Honours.

 4                           Re-examination by Ms. Gopalan:

 5        Q.   Mr. Konaj, I have a few questions for you.  Defence counsel asked

 6     you a number of questions today about your statement from 2001.

 7             MS. GOPALAN:  I'd like to call up the statement.  The exhibit is

 8     P670, both the English and the Albanian, please.  Could we please go to

 9     page 2 of the English and page 2 of the Albanian.  For the Albanian could

10     we go to the next page, please, it should be page 3.

11        Q.   Mr. Konaj, could you please read out the first sentence of the

12     statement in Albanian, so the line that appears below the heading

13     "witness statement."

14        A.    "Interviewer's note:  This statement is based on an informal

15     statement taken on 19th April 1999, my name is Ndrec Konaj" --

16        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Konaj, that's sufficient.

17             MS. GOPALAN:  I'd now like to call up the statement of 1999 which

18     was recently tendered into evidence.  The exhibit number is D93.  And in

19     both the English and the Albanian could we please go to the last pages.

20     For the English could we go to the previous page, please, not the last

21     but page 5.

22        Q.   Mr. Konaj, in the Albanian version of your 1999 statement that

23     you have on the screen before you, could you read the last paragraph on

24     that page.

25        A.    "The statement in English has not been read back to me.  I was

Page 3797

 1     asked to speak about different periods of time, and I can recall other

 2     events if that is requested of me.  I'm ready to testify."

 3        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Konaj.  Now, you were also asked some questions

 4     about the units that you saw in Pec.

 5             MS. GOPALAN:  For the record, this is line 45, 9.

 6        Q.   And you mentioned that you saw your neighbours, Peje inhabitants,

 7     who were dressed in camouflage uniforms and that they were armed.  Do you

 8     recall that section of your testimony today, Mr. Konaj?

 9        A.   Yes, I do, because those who were in the neighbourhood where I

10     lived, in Berzhanik or Dardanija or now called UCK Street, they were

11     dressed in camouflage uniforms, they were stationed in the Muslim and

12     Catholic cemeteries.  This is true.

13        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Konaj.  Just to clarify, when was it you saw these

14     individuals who were dressed in camouflage uniforms, approximately when?

15        A.   In 1998 when I left my house to go to my father's house.  From my

16     father's house then I went to Ulqin, and I saw them on the way to Ulqin

17     in Montenegro at a location in Rrozhaja.  I don't remember the name of

18     the border crossing there.

19        Q.   Thank you.  And you said that they were your neighbours, Peje

20     inhabitants.  Do you know their names?

21        A.   If you're referring to the events at the stone bridge, I only

22     knew them by sight.  Of course when you are living in a city and go out

23     on the streets every day, you can tell people by sight; but I didn't know

24     their names.  I never knew them.

25        Q.   Perhaps my question wasn't clear, Mr. Konaj.  This morning you

Page 3798

 1     were asked by Defence counsel whether you knew the deference between

 2     persons who were paramilitary units or those who were military reserve

 3     units and your answer was:

 4             "A.  I do not exclude that possibility, but I have seen also my

 5     neighbours, Peje inhabitants, who were dressed in those camouflage

 6     uniforms, and I saw them armed around the streets of Peje and in the

 7     Catholic cemeteries and the Muslim one."

 8             Now, these are the people that I am asking you questions about,

 9     the armed people who you saw in the Catholic cemetery and close to the

10     Muslim cemetery.  When was it that you saw them there?

11        A.   In 1998 and later on in 1999 after I returned from Ulqin and

12     before we were expelled.

13        Q.   Thank you.  And you mentioned that they were armed.  Do you know

14     who armed them?

15        A.   No, but they did have automatic rifles.  I don't know if they had

16     any side weapon, but I could see the automatic rifles hanging on their

17     shoulders.  The same ones could be seen in the centre on the 28th when we

18     left with the last bus.

19        Q.   Thank you.  And these neighbours of yours who you saw in the

20     Catholic cemetery, do you recall any of their names?

21        A.   To tell you the truth, we always addressed each other with the

22     word "neighbour," "neighbour."  So when the police came to look for me at

23     my uncle's house, they didn't even know my name.  They knew only the

24     names of my sons, the children played with each other.  Slavko was one of

25     my neighbours, then Mile Vasic was also a neighbour of mine.  He was a

Page 3799

 1     neighbour from Bellopoje.  He had a cafe at Stari Most, the stone bridge.

 2     And from this cafeteria two people with camouflage uniforms came out.

 3        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Konaj.  Now, just going back to these neighbours

 4     who you mentioned, do you know what ethnicity they were?

 5        A.   Serbs.  Maybe they were even Montenegrins, but I never asked them

 6     if they were Serbs or Montenegrins.  Serb ethnicity.

 7        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Konaj.  I have no further questions for you.

 8        A.   [In English] Thank you.

 9                           Questioned by the Court:

10             JUDGE BAIRD:  Mr. Konaj, I want to take you back to your

11     description of the attack on the village of Lodja, and you said there was

12     a severe attack on the village of Lodja.  It was even bombed from the air

13     in addition to the ground attack.  Who bombed it from the air?

14        A.   The members of the Yugoslav Army -- I mean the aircraft.  I'm not

15     being specific here, whether it was a regular Yugoslav Army, but the

16     aircraft was of Yugoslav Army.

17             JUDGE BAIRD:  Thank you very much.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Konaj, that concludes the questions for you.

19     The Chamber would like to thank you for coming yet again to The Hague and

20     for the assistance that you've been able to give us.  We now have your

21     evidence today together with your statements and the transcripts of the

22     evidence you've given in previous trials.  We thank you for that which

23     will be of assistance to us in due course.  The court officer will show

24     you out, and you are, of course, free to return to your normal

25     activities.

Page 3800

 1             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.  May God

 2     help you in your work.

 3                           [The witness withdrew]

 4             JUDGE PARKER:  Clearly this is a convenient time for the second

 5     break which we must take now.  We will resume at 1.00.

 6                           --- Recess taken at 12.28 p.m.

 7                           --- On resuming at 1.03 p.m.

 8             JUDGE PARKER:  Ms. D'Ascoli.

 9             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Yes, Your Honours.  We're ready with the next

10     witness, and it's Mr. Edison Zatriqi.  And his evidence relates to

11     paragraphs 72(e) and 77 of the indictment.

12             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

13                           [The witness entered court]

14             JUDGE PARKER:  Good afternoon.  Would you please read aloud the

15     affirmation on the card which is shown to you now.

16             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

17     speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

18                           WITNESS:  EDISON ZATRIQI

19                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

20             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.  Please sit down.

21             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

22             JUDGE PARKER:  Ms. D'Ascoli has some questions for you.

23                           Examination by Ms. D'Ascoli:

24        Q.   Good morning, Witness.  Would you please state your full name for

25     the record, please.

Page 3801

 1        A.   My name is Edison Zatriqi.

 2        Q.   And could you please state your date of birth.

 3        A.   I was born on the 5th of December, 1956.

 4        Q.   And where were you born, Mr. Zatriqi?

 5        A.   I was born in Peje.

 6        Q.   Where are you currently living?

 7        A.   In the same town, in Peje.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  And which is your current occupation, Mr. Zatriqi?

 9        A.   Currently I work with the OSCE, their regional office.  I work in

10     the transport department as a driver.

11        Q.   Thank you.  Sir, did you provide a statement to representative of

12     the Office of the Prosecutor in June 2001 and subsequently an addendum to

13     that statement in January 2002?

14        A.   Yes, correct.

15        Q.   And have you recently had the opportunity to review this

16     statement?

17        A.   Yes.

18        Q.   Are you satisfied that the information contained in them is true

19     and accurate to the best of your knowledge and belief?

20        A.   Absolutely, yes.

21        Q.   And, sir, did you also testify before this Tribunal in the

22     Milutinovic et al. case in September 2006?

23        A.   Yes, correct.

24        Q.   And have you recently had the opportunity to review also this

25     previous testimony in the Milutinovic et al. case?

Page 3802

 1        A.   Yes.

 2        Q.   And if you were asked the same question today, would you provide

 3     substantially the same answers and would you testify in the same way?

 4        A.   Yes.

 5        Q.   Thank you.

 6             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Your Honours, I'd like to tender into evidence

 7     both the witness statement and the transcript.  The witness statement are

 8     the 65 ter number 02347.

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

10             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be assigned P00672, Your Honours.

11             MS. D'ASCOLI:  And the witness's testimony in the

12     Milutinovic et al. case is the 65 ter number 05051.

13             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

14             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be assigned P00673, Your Honours.

15             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Thank you.

16             I will now read a summary of this witness's evidence.

17             The witness describes the events in Peje on the

18     27th and the 28th of March, 1999, which led to the expulsion of

19     Kosovo Albanians from the area.  The witness was the director of a coach

20     company called Flamingo Tours which owned three coaches.  On the

21     23rd of March, 1999, the witness was ordered to go to the place where his

22     buses were, and there two policemen took away these three buses.  When he

23     asked for documentation, one of the policemen pointed his gun at the

24     witness and threatened him.

25             On the 27th of March, 1999, the witness was in his house in the

Page 3803

 1     Sahat Kula neighbourhood of Peje, when he witnessed Serb military

 2     shelling the carry of Kapeshnica from the hospital yard and the secondary

 3     school.  The witness moved to the house of a relative in the Jarina

 4     neighbourhood in Peje.  The following day the witness and his family

 5     joined a long convoy of vehicles which was being directed towards

 6     Montenegro by armed police and armed civilians.  While in the convoy, the

 7     witness saw one of his buses full of people.  The witness returned to

 8     Peje in July 1999 and found that his house, business offices, and coaches

 9     had been burnt.

10             This is the end of the in-court summary.

11             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

12             MS. D'ASCOLI:

13        Q.   Mr. Zatriqi, as you know, the Trial Chamber now already has

14     before it your previous statement and testimony.  Therefore, I'll just

15     have some -- a few questions for you in relation to the events in Peje in

16     March 1999.  Sir, in your statement - and this is paragraph 10 at the end

17     of page 2 in the English version - you say that the Serb military started

18     shelling Peje on the early morning of the 27th of March, 1999.

19             Mr. Zatriqi, I wanted to ask you whether this is something that

20     you saw yourself with your own eyes?

21        A.   Yes, it is true that I saw the shelling with my own eyes.

22        Q.   And can you please tell us from where you observed all this?

23        A.   My house is in such a position that allows me to see the

24     direction from where these shells were fired and where they were directed

25     at.  These shells were flying over my -- the roof of my house.  I was

Page 3804

 1     moving in the house from the third floor to the part behind the house.

 2     Therefore, I could clearly see the shelling from where they were firing

 3     shells and what they targeted.  The shells fell in a neighbourhood which

 4     is opposite to our neighbourhood.  It is called Kapeshnica.

 5        Q.   Sir, I'm going to show you a map of the town of Peje.

 6             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Can I please have on the screen the

 7     65 ter number 00615, which is the Kosovo atlas, and I would need page 46

 8     of this atlas, please.  If you can scroll down, please.  Thank you.

 9        Q.   Sir, can you see the map, and do you recognise Peje and this

10     neighbourhood?

11        A.   Yes, I can clearly see the map.

12             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Can we please go down a little bit more.

13        Q.   Sir, I understand from your statement in paragraph 10, page 2,

14     that your house is located in the neighbourhood called Sahat Kula, and I

15     was wondering whether you can see this neighbourhood on the map.

16        A.   The neighbourhood on this map is marked with the name Puhovci.

17        Q.   Therefore, is Puhovci and Sahat Kula, are they the same

18     neighbourhood?

19        A.   Yes, you can say that.  When you say Puhovci I know what you're

20     referring to, and if you use Sahat Kula I will know that you referred to

21     this neighbourhood.

22        Q.   Okay.  Would you be able to locate your house in -- on the map in

23     the neighbourhood of Sahat Kula?  We can move the map also down or up if

24     you need.

25             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Maybe all the way down, please.

Page 3805

 1        Q.   Is it better like this?

 2        A.   Yes, it's better.  It is right by the Catholic church.

 3        Q.   You will be provided with a pen, and if you're able to -- to

 4     indicate where your house would be, could you please mark it with a dot

 5     and put a number 1 close to it.

 6        A.   It should be here approximately, by the road.

 7        Q.   Can you mark more clearly the number 1, please, because I cannot

 8     see it.

 9        A.   [Marks]

10        Q.   Okay.

11             MS. D'ASCOLI:  So for the record the witness has put a blue dot

12     and a number 1 close to it to indicate the place where his house was.

13        Q.   Thank you.  In that same paragraph of your statement, and there

14     was page 2, paragraph 10, you indicated that on the 27th of March the

15     shelling was coming from the hospital and the school.  Sir, would you be

16     able to indicate on this map also where the hospital and the school were?

17        A.   Here is the school, the secondary school or high school --

18        Q.   If you could -- could you please mark it with the letter S for

19     school and H for hospital.

20        A.   [Marks]

21        Q.   Could you mark more precisely the letter H because the -- sorry.

22        A.   [Marks]

23        Q.   Okay.  Thank you.

24             And in which direction was the shelling going on that morning

25     from -- I mean from the school and from the hospital?  If you could maybe

Page 3806

 1     like draw two arrows from the school and the hospital to indicate the

 2     direction of the fire and of the shelling.

 3        A.   [Marks]

 4        Q.   Thank you.  So who was firing from the school and from the

 5     hospital towards the neighbourhood of Kapeshnica?

 6        A.   The Serb army was shelling with its tanks.

 7        Q.   Did you see that yourself?

 8        A.   Yes, I did.

 9        Q.   Okay.  With regard to the neighbourhood of Kapeshnica, by whom

10     was it inhabited?

11        A.   The Kapeshnica neighbourhood was inhabited exclusively by

12     Albanians.

13        Q.   Okay.  If we go back to the map, sir, do you also see the

14     neighbourhood of Jarina on this map?

15        A.   Yes.

16        Q.   And would you be able to indicate where your aunt's house in

17     Jarina was?

18        A.   Yes.

19        Q.   Could you indicate it with a dot and place a number 2 close to

20     it, please?

21        A.   [Marks]

22        Q.   Thank you.

23             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Your Honours, I would like to tender this exhibit

24     as marked by the witness, please.

25             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

Page 3807

 1             MS. D'ASCOLI:

 2        Q.   Mr. Zatriqi, as we --

 3             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be assigned P00674, Your Honours.

 4             MS. D'ASCOLI:  I'm sorry.

 5        Q.   Mr. Zatriqi, as we were speaking about this shelling by the Serb

 6     army, can you tell us for how long did the shelling go on?

 7        A.   The shelling began early in the morning.  As I stated earlier,

 8     one of the reasons I left the house was the shelling itself.  Therefore,

 9     I'm not able to say for how long it continued because I went to another

10     part of the town.  However, based on the blasts, on the explosions, I can

11     say that it lasted for at least two or three hours.

12        Q.   Can you then clarify the reasons why you left your house on that

13     morning, on the morning of the 27th of March.

14        A.   We left the house on the 27th of March because a night earlier, a

15     night between the 26th and the 27th, there was firing at our house.  My

16     family and I and my parents were sheltered in the basement of the house.

17     I was moving in the house itself throughout this time, going from one

18     part to another part of the house.  And when the shelling started in the

19     morning, we decided to leave.  I spoke with my aunt who lives in Jarina.

20     I asked her about the situation in Jarina.  She said that the night was

21     quiet compared to the situation in our neighbourhood.  Therefore, we all

22     decided to leave the house and to go to Jarina, to this other part of the

23     town.

24        Q.   Sir, can I ask you whether you had the chance of seeing who was

25     firing at your house?

Page 3808

 1        A.   As I've already said, from moving from one part to another part

 2     of the house, I could see clearly that early in the morning at around

 3     2.00 or 3.00 in the morning, Furgon, police Furgon vehicle stopped near

 4     the house, spoke to my neighbours.  There were also neighbours of mine

 5     who were armed.  And an hour later, they started to fire in the direction

 6     of the house.

 7        Q.   And did you see this yourself from your house?

 8        A.   Yes, I saw it with my own eyes.

 9        Q.   And who were these neighbours of yours that you mentioned?

10        A.   It was not my neighbours who shot, but persons who came out of

11     this minivan, as many as could be accommodated in a minivan, and they

12     were dressed in police uniforms.

13        Q.   And you said:

14             "They were together with these policemen also neighbours of mine

15     who were armed."

16             I'm just reading your previous answer from the transcript.

17        A.   These were my neighbours who, during the night, stood armed and

18     moved about the neighbourhood, and as I said earlier in -- near my house

19     there were some neighbours who were armed.  And when the minivan came, I

20     saw it with my own eyes, and they talked with these neighbours.  And then

21     they left, and the policemen started to shoot.

22        Q.   I'm sorry, who talked with these neighbours?

23        A.   One of the policemen who came out of the minivan.

24        Q.   And what was the ethnicity of your neighbours?

25        A.   These neighbours who moved about the neighbourhood armed were

Page 3809

 1     Serbs.

 2        Q.   Okay, sir.  I'll move to the part of your statement where you

 3     describe that you left your aunt's house and Peje on the 28th of March

 4     and you joined a convoy of other vehicles.  Can you tell this Court why

 5     you and your family left your aunt's house in the town of Peje on the

 6     28th of March.

 7        A.   On Saturday, on the 27th, when we left our house and went to

 8     Jarina at my aunt's house, it was relatively calm there.  And the night

 9     was, as I said, relatively calm, with the exception of the fact that we

10     saw a very powerful reflector lightening the place around there.

11             In the morning when we woke up, at about 8.00, 8.30 I think it

12     was, a police car came and stopped at the entrance to this street because

13     this neighbourhood has two exits and two entrances.  From the police van

14     came out the policemen who in a loud voice ordered us that in five

15     minutes we leave the houses, and we -- some families who were there who

16     had cars got on the cars and left the house.

17        Q.   And just to clarify, when you say:  "... in the morning when we

18     woke up, at about 8.00, 8.30 ..." which morning do you mean, which day,

19     and where were you that morning?

20        A.   In the morning of Sunday, that is, on the 28th of March.

21        Q.   Where were you on that day?

22        A.   Until the morning of the 28th I was at my aunt's house.  We went

23     there on the 27th.  We slept there, if you like, and in the morning we

24     were obliged to leave.

25        Q.   And, sir, at page 3, paragraph 2, of your statement you say that

Page 3810

 1     that morning, on the 28th, you joined this convoy directed towards

 2     Rozaje.  Can you please describe that convoy and who were the people that

 3     you saw in that convoy?

 4        A.   My aunt's neighbourhood is in a parallel street with one of the

 5     main streets of Peje, and the second entry and exit points were free.

 6     They -- it linked with the main road.  At that moment, I saw many cars in

 7     a convoy which I joined.  I saw also many people who were walking.  Maybe

 8     they didn't have vehicles, so they walked in the same direction that we

 9     walked.

10        Q.   And can you specify who these people were?

11        A.   These people I may assure you were all Albanians and all evicted

12     from their homes, and they simply walked in the same direction that we

13     drove with our cars.

14        Q.   Sir, in the same paragraph and still paragraph 2, page 3, you

15     also mentioned that there were armed police and armed civilians at

16     various road junctions and that these armed police and civilians were

17     directing you towards Montenegro.  Can you explain what you mean for that

18     and -- for example, could you go in any other direction?

19        A.   When we got to the main road, the only direction open for us was

20     that towards junction.  At the junction there were police.  There was a

21     policeman, armed policeman of course, who directed us towards Montenegro.

22     The same was true at two other junctions.  So there was no choice for us.

23     I and the other people like me were obliged to go in that direction,

24     irrespective of whether they were driving or walking.  So everyone was

25     heading towards Montenegro.

Page 3811

 1        Q.   And, sir, could you estimate approximately how many people were

 2     in the convoy?

 3        A.   I wouldn't be able to give you figures because I was there, but

 4     there were other people behind me, so I didn't know where the end of it

 5     was.  I know only that it was a very long convoy.

 6        Q.   And by "a very long convoy," do you mean vehicles and people

 7     together or -- if you can specify, please.

 8        A.   Yes, the convoy consisted of people walking as well as cars --

 9     driving cars or other vehicles driving.

10        Q.   Thank you very much, Mr. Zatriqi.

11             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Your Honours, I don't have further questions.

12             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you, Ms. D'Ascoli.

13             Mr. Djurdjic.

14             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours, but I

15     have a request to make.  In view of the fact that we have heard many new

16     facts from the witness that he hasn't said before, in order for me to

17     cross-examine him more efficiently and more quickly, I would appreciate

18     it if you would allow me to start with my cross-examination tomorrow and

19     I will be very quick with this witness because I have to inquire about

20     some things that he's mentioned here for the first time, and there are

21     some ten or so new facts that he's put forth.

22                           [Trial Chamber confers]

23             JUDGE PARKER:  The Chamber would prefer you, Mr. Djurdjic, to use

24     the 15 minutes we have.  There may be some new matters raised, but they

25     can be looked at overnight.  So that if you would proceed with your

Page 3812

 1     cross-examination now.

 2             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.

 3                           Cross-examination by Mr. Djurdjic:

 4        Q.   [Interpretation] Mr. Zatriqi, my name is Veljko Djurdjic, and I'm

 5     a member of the Defence team of the accused, Vlastimir Djordjevic; and

 6     with me today is Ms. Marie O'Leary, who is a member of the Defence team.

 7     I have some questions for you, and if you don't understand something

 8     please let me know and I will try to rephrase my question so that you can

 9     then answer it.

10             Tell me, Mr. Zatriqi, you were born in Pec in 1956.  Do you have

11     any brothers or sisters?

12        A.   Yes, I have one brother and one sister.

13        Q.   Thank you.  In 1999, were your parents, your father and mother,

14     alive?

15        A.   Yes, they are still alive.

16        Q.   Thank God.  Now tell me, did you live separately from your

17     parents, away from your parents, in 1999?

18        A.   In 1999 and now also I live together with my parents in the same

19     house but with different floors -- on different floors.

20        Q.   Thank you.  Were your parents living in the same house with you

21     in March 1999?

22        A.   Yes.

23        Q.   Thank you.  And now tell me, please, if I recall well, you've

24     completed high school; correct?

25        A.   Yes, I completed high school but also the Faculty of Economics in

Page 3813

 1     Prishtina.

 2        Q.   Thank you.  When did you graduate, what year?

 3        A.   Rather late I would say, sometime in 1988.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  And when did you get employed?

 5        A.   For the first time I was employed in Prishtina temporarily.  I

 6     worked there for a year in the then-statistical institute until 1981.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  And then?

 8        A.   Then I returned to Peje and started working in the Ljubljana bank

 9     in 1985.

10        Q.   Thank you.  Did you serve in the army?

11        A.   Yes, I did.

12        Q.   Could you tell me when and where?

13        A.   I served in the army in Skopje in 1982 until February 1983.

14        Q.   Thank you.  And what was your military speciality?

15        A.   I was working in the communications sector, then they needed a

16     driver, and I was the only one who had a licence; so I was transferred to

17     that -- I became a driver, actually, and I did a driving course in

18     Kurqoll [phoen].

19        Q.   Thank you.  Were you a member of a political party after 1999 [as

20     interpreted] -- correction in the transcript, please, not 1999 but 1990.

21        A.   Yes, I was until 1989, I think, member of the then-communist

22     party of Yugoslavia.

23        Q.   Thank you.  And after 1990, when the multi-party system was

24     introduced ... ?

25        A.   No.

Page 3814

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Zatriqi, do you recall making a statement --

 2     giving a statement on the 20th of June, 2001, to an investigator of the

 3     ICTY?

 4        A.   Yes, I recall it.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Was that the first statement that you provided to the

 6     investigator of the Tribunal?

 7        A.   Yes.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  Is it fair to say that this statement was read back

 9     to you in the Albanian language?

10        A.   Yes, they did.

11        Q.   Thank you.  And it is also stated here that you have given your

12     statement to the best of your knowledge and abilities and recollections;

13     correct?

14        A.   Yes.

15        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Zatriqi, could you please tell me, did you --

16     were you ever brought to a court of law?  Were you ever tried in a -- in

17     criminal proceedings?

18        A.   Can you make the question clearer?  What period are you referring

19     to?

20        Q.   I did mention that but probably it wasn't recorded in the

21     transcript.  Up to 1990 [as interpreted], had you ever been tried?

22             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Correction, please, not up to 1990

23     but in 1990.

24             I apologise.  I still see the same year.  So I will repeat my

25     question.

Page 3815

 1        Q.   Up until 1999, had you ever been tried in a court of law?

 2        A.   Yes, I was tried in a court of law prior to 1999.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  Could you tell us when and on what grounds?

 4        A.   The trial took place at the end of 1998 and the subject was

 5     described as smuggling of medicinal means, medicaments.

 6        Q.   Thank you.

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic, that appears to be the time now.  We

 8     must adjourn, and we continue tomorrow.

 9             I'm afraid, sir, we must adjourn now, and we continue with the

10     evidence tomorrow.  The court officer will give you explanations and the

11     Victims and Witnesses Unit.  We would be grateful if you could return

12     tomorrow to complete your evidence.

13                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.46 p.m.,

14                           to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 28th day of

15                           April, 2009, at 9.00 a.m.