090428IT

Page 3816

1 Tuesday, 28 April 2009

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 --- Upon commencing at 9.04 a.m.

5 [The witness takes the stand]

6 JUDGE PARKER: Good morning.

7 THE WITNESS: Good morning.

8 JUDGE PARKER: The affirmation you made at the beginning of your

9 evidence to tell the truth still applies.

10 Mr. Djurdjic.

11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.

12 WITNESS: EDISON ZATRIQI [Resumed]

13 [Witness answered through interpreter]

14 Cross-examination by Mr. Djurdjic: [Continued]

15 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Zatriqi, were you a member -- the owner of

16 Flamingo Tours company?

17 A. Yes, I was one of the owners of this agency.

18 Q. Thank you. When was your agency established?

19 A. This agency was established in December 1989.

20 Q. Thank you. You actually dealt in transportation, that was your

21 business?

22 A. Yes, in transportation. Also in transportation and in tourist

23 tours.

24 Q. Thank you. In 1998 and 1999, did you have to pay double

25 registration?

Page 3817

1 A. Would you be more explicit, please, because I'm not so sure about

2 what you are asking me because normally you have to register your cars or

3 your car.

4 Q. All right. I will show you a document now, and then we'll see

5 whether you're familiar with it.

6 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have number

7 D002-6060.

8 Q. Mr. Zatriqi, can you read this document, please?

9 A. Yes, I can.

10 Q. This is a document of the Main Staff of the military police

11 administration of the KLA dated 3rd February, 1999, and it refers to the

12 decision by the Main Staff of 31 December 1998 to determine the fees for

13 registration of vehicles and then, among other things, it says under 1

14 it's up to 900 Deutschemarks; under 2 it says that the fee has to be paid

15 for one year and that it will correspond to the period of registration.

16 So my question is: In addition to the normal registration,

17 regular registration, did you also have to pay for registration in

18 keeping with this decision of the military police administration?

19 A. This is the first time for me to see such a document. Reading it

20 I can see that you have to pay for vehicles travelling in those areas

21 controlled by KLA. Peje was not one of them; that's why I didn't have a

22 chance to look at such a document or to pay such a fee.

23 Q. Thank you.

24 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we see, please, the

25 Defence document D002-6058. Thank you. Could we just zoom in a bit

Page 3818

1 more, please.

2 Q. Mr. Zatriqi, do you recognise this image, this photo?

3 A. Yes, relatively, yes. It's a very small picture. It's not easy

4 for me to distinguish clearly the facilities there.

5 Q. Yes, I know you can't see any facilities. We couldn't do that

6 yesterday either, but could you please just put an X in the area where

7 your house was on this photo?

8 A. It's very hard for me to do that because it is indeed very small.

9 It must be here, on this part. I can't be accurate in my location.

10 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Djurdjic, we could try coming in closer to

11 about half the size of the present picture if that is likely to help the

12 witness.

13 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

14 Perhaps if we can come a little closer still and then maybe we

15 can pull up the photo. Thank you.

16 Q. Is this better, Mr. Zatriqi?

17 A. It is better than before, but still it's a problem for me.

18 JUDGE PARKER: I think we might have to leave it then,

19 Mr. Djurdjic.

20 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] All right. We'll move on, Your

21 Honour. Thank you.

22 Q. Is it correct, Mr. Zatriqi, that in paragraph 8 of your

23 statement, your June 2001 statement, you said:

24 "I did not see the buses again, since that moment on, until I

25 returned in Pec on the 26th of July, 1999."

Page 3819

1 So this refers to the time when you actually handed over the

2 buses, when they were confiscated. Is this paragraph correct?

3 A. Yes, this is what I stated. It was not that I handed over the

4 buses, actually. They were confiscated.

5 Q. Yes, but my question was about this paragraph 8, the first

6 sentence reads:

7 "From that moment I did not see the buses until I returned to Pec

8 on the 26th of July, 1999."

9 A. That's correct.

10 Q. Thank you. In this same paragraph but in the next sentence you

11 said:

12 "The buses were in the same place but burned down."

13 You men when you arrived there on the 26th of July, 1999. Am I

14 correct that you were not an eye-witness to that event, to the burning of

15 the buses?

16 A. That's correct. As you can see from my statement, I returned

17 very late from my exile. So when I came I was faced with such a

18 situation, but I wasn't there to eye-witness what actually happened.

19 Q. Thank you. In paragraph 10 you state that there was shooting

20 in -- at Kapesnica, but did you happen to notice whether there was any

21 shooting coming from Kapesnica?

22 A. No, no shooting came from Kapeshnice.

23 Q. Thank you. How do you know that there was no fire coming from

24 Kapesnica?

25 A. I know it very well because from the back of my house you can

Page 3820

1 have a very good view of Kapeshnice, you can have an entire view of the

2 place, and when I was moving about the house I could see very clearly

3 that no fire came from Kapeshnice.

4 Q. Thank you. Transcript page 3803, lines 23 through 25,

5 and page 3804, lines 1 to 4, of yesterday's transcript you said:

6 "My house was in such a position that I could see the direction

7 from which these shells were fired and where they were headed. These

8 shells were flying over my house. I moved around the house from the

9 third floor and in the area behind the house so I could see the shelling,

10 I could see where the shells were fired from, and what the targets were.

11 The shells fell on a neighbourhood that is across from our neighbourhood

12 and it's called Kapeshnica."

13 Now, Mr. Zatriqi, in paragraph 10 you say that fire was opened on

14 Kapesnica, but you do not say that you've actually observed this. You

15 said that you were in the cellar of your house, in the basement.

16 MS. D'ASCOLI: Your Honours.

17 JUDGE PARKER: Ms. D'Ascoli.

18 MS. D'ASCOLI: I'm sorry to interrupt, but at least in the

19 English version that I have, paragraph 10, page 2, the last sentence says

20 exactly: "They were firing at the neighbourhoods of Kapeshnica. I saw

21 this myself."

22 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.

23 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

24 Q. Yes, but you were in the basement. Is it correct that you were

25 in the basement?

Page 3821

1 A. No, that's not correct. Even yesterday I said that my family, my

2 children, my parents were in the basement, whereas I, myself, moved about

3 the house all the time.

4 Q. Well, that's what I said that that's what you stated yesterday;

5 but in your 2001 June statement, in paragraph 10 - and I've just read it

6 out to you - you said the 26th and the 27th of March I stayed in the

7 basement of my house.

8 Does that mean that this portion of your statement is incorrect,

9 your -- this portion of your 2001 statement?

10 A. No, doesn't mean that it's not accurate, but I meant that I

11 prepared the basement in order to accommodate my family there, to protect

12 them from the shelling because I considered the basement as a very

13 suitable place to hide. But now and again I visited them. I might have

14 stayed there for a while but then went back to the house and moved about.

15 Q. Thank you. But that is not what you said in your June statement;

16 correct?

17 A. I believe that you can imply what I meant by placing my family

18 there. Initially I thought to hide there myself, but then I changed my

19 mind. I decided to go up and see what was going on outside.

20 Q. Yes, but please answer my question. This is something that you

21 said later on when you testified before the Court, but in this statement

22 that I've shown to you that is not what is stated. Am I correct?

23 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Djurdjic, you are repeating and repeating.

24 There can be no confusion about the position. The statement in the

25 paragraph says that I stayed in the basement in my house for those two

Page 3822

1 days. The last sentence of that paragraph says "I saw this myself,"

2 speaking of the firing. The two are not compatible. The witness in his

3 evidence yesterday and repeated again today says the explanation is

4 simple: "My family were in the basement. I was there with them at times

5 but most of the time I moved around the house and I could see clearly

6 from the upper floors of the house where the shooting was occurring and

7 where the shells were landing." Now, what more can he say about that and

8 what more do you hope to get from him? You can put to us later that this

9 is different and what he's now saying is not what he said originally and

10 we will have to weigh up whether that is something we accept or not. But

11 you've got all the facts from the witness, so you're just pressing on for

12 no purpose.

13 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. My

14 question was precisely aimed at the fact that this was omitted and it had

15 no other purpose. My question was just: Is it true that you did not say

16 this, that you were in the basement and that you actually did not say so

17 at the time. Thank you. I will move on.

18 Q. On transcript page 3806, this is yesterday's transcript, you said

19 that the Serbian army shelled using tanks. In your June 2006 statement

20 you never mentioned that you saw any artillery or any weapon from which

21 the shelling actually came?

22 A. May I reply?

23 Q. Yes.

24 A. Thank you. In my statement, most of it is focused on the

25 deportation of the population. What you are putting to me now are things

Page 3823

1 which I replied in answer to questions asked of me at that time.

2 Q. Thank you. On page 3807 of yesterday's transcript, lines 14

3 through 18, you say:

4 "We left the house on the 27th of March in the morning because

5 the previous night, the night of the 26th on to 27th, fire was opened on

6 our house. My family, my parents and I, hid in the basement. I moved

7 around the house, moving from one part to another, and when the shelling

8 began we decided to leave."

9 All right, you've already answered the part that refers to moving

10 around the house so let's move on.

11 On page 3808, lines 1 through 6, you said:

12 "As I've already mentioned, moving from one part of the house to

13 another, I could clearly see that early in the morning, around 2.00 or

14 3.00 a.m., a van, a police van, stopped near my house. They talked to my

15 neighbours. There were also neighbours of mine who were armed, and an

16 hour later they started to shoot. They opened fire in the direction of

17 my house."

18 Now, this portion, Mr. Zatriqi, does not exist in your 2001 June

19 statement.

20 A. There is only one change. The minivan didn't belong to the

21 police, but I think it was a privately owned one. But this also is an

22 answer to a question I was asked.

23 Q. Please answer my questions. I've read a portion of the

24 transcript and then I just said that this is something that is not --

25 cannot be found in your statement.

Page 3824

1 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we now please see

2 Exhibit P672, could we display it on the screen, please.

3 Q. May I just ask you -- in Albanian it's page 3.

4 Mr. Zatriqi, can you find in that statement of June 1999 that

5 part concerning policemen that I've just read out to you?

6 A. Somewhere towards the end of the page it says:

7 "We left because there was shooting all night long. There were

8 bullet impacts on my house."

9 MR. DJURDJIC: I haven't translation.

10 [Interpretation] Hello? But I can't hear you again. Okay.

11 Right. I hear you now. It's okay.

12 Q. Mr. Zatriqi, this was quoted by the end of the statement when you

13 stated the reason for leaving Pec, and this passage was from the time

14 when you were still in the house. You did not mention anywhere that

15 policemen had come, that someone had gotten out of the car and what else

16 happened. That was Sunday morning, paragraph 13, that is, two paragraphs

17 above.

18 A. According to the statement we are looking at, later on when I

19 testified I was asked to explain the reasons why we left the house, who

20 was staying in my house, and that's why then I provided the Court with a

21 detailed answer.

22 Q. Thank you. And when you were giving this statement in 2001, were

23 you in a hurry? Was the interviewer in a hurry?

24 A. No, the gentleman who interviewed me was not in a hurry. I was

25 in a hurry.

Page 3825

1 Q. Thank you. And in 2001, were are you working for the OSCE?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Thank you. Would it be fair to say that in paragraph 13, that

4 is, the third paragraph from the top on that last page, in the last

5 sentence you stated:

6 "I did not see any troops"?

7 A. It is true that I said that, that I didn't see any military,

8 didn't see any police, but when the shelling started, I know that that

9 the shelling was carried out by the army because at that time only the

10 army had tanks.

11 Q. Mr. Zatriqi, that paragraph 13, I understand it refers to your

12 departure from Pec, nothing else. Of course I don't mean that you had

13 never seen any troops, but also you say, When I was going towards Rozaje

14 I didn't see any troops. That's all I meant in that limited context. I

15 did not intend anything ill. I was just asking about this particular

16 context.

17 A. When we were expelled from Peje, I left through a different

18 neighbourhood. There are many houses in that neighbourhood. It is true

19 that en route I didn't see any army members or police or -- on the way --

20 THE INTERPRETER: Correction.

21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] -- I only saw police and armed

22 civilians.

23 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

24 Q. Thank you. You've just used again the word expelled, and I tried

25 to find that word in the statement of June 2001, and to be quite frank, I

Page 3826

1 have not succeeded.

2 A. Maybe it's different wording. Even if you say "we left," we all

3 know why we left. We know the reasons why we left our house. So it

4 would be the same thing to say "expelled" or "leave," because to me it

5 has the same meaning, as I know the reasons why I left my house.

6 Q. Thank you. Was the reason war?

7 A. I mentioned the reasons in my statement, the firing, the

8 shelling, of course the war.

9 Q. Thank you, Mr. Zatriqi. And you left to Montenegro, you left for

10 Rozaje in Montenegro; right?

11 A. Yes, we had to leave and left in the direction of Rozaje. We

12 were told to take that direction, and from Rozaje we proceeded towards

13 Ulqin.

14 Q. Rozaje is in Montenegro, and at that time Montenegro was part of

15 the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia; correct?

16 A. Yes, you're absolutely right, and this was the reason why I left

17 Montenegro 21 days later. Although we were not threatened there, the

18 fact that it was the same country, we decided to leave. We left in the

19 direction of Bosnia, and from Bosnia we took a plane to Istanbul.

20 Q. Would I be right in saying that you did not see yourself how the

21 mosque in Pec was damaged in 1999?

22 A. That's correct. I didn't see the mosque in Peje being damaged or

23 burnt. And not only the mosque in Peje, but I didn't see any mosque

24 being burnt or damaged myself.

25 Q. Thank you. Nor did you eye-witness how the houses were damaged

Page 3827

1 in Pec in your absence in 1999; am I right?

2 A. Yes, you're right. As I already mentioned, I returned rather

3 late from exile, sometime on the 26th of July, so it was impossible for

4 me to see how these houses were damaged or burnt, but 80 per cent of the

5 houses in Peje were damaged or burnt. Among them, my house too.

6 Q. Thank you. When you returned --

7 JUDGE PARKER: We appear to have a transcript difficulty at the

8 moment. You may have to wait a moment.

9 JUDGE PARKER: I'm told that the matter may be resolved, although that's

10 not apparent on our screens, so if you would carry on, Mr. Djurdjic.

11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. Shall I

12 repeat?

13 JUDGE PARKER: I understand the part that is missing from our

14 transcript will be caught up at a later time and inserted, so carry on,

15 Mr. Djurdjic, from now.

16 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

17 Q. When you returned to Pec in July 1999, were there any Serbs in

18 Pec?

19 A. When I returned in July, I personally didn't come across any

20 Serb. I'm speaking about July 1999.

21 Q. Thank you, Mr. Zatriqi. I have no further questions for you.

22 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours. I have

23 finished my cross.

24 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you, Mr. Djurdjic.

25 Ms. D'Ascoli, is there re-examination?

Page 3833

1 keeping with our disclosure obligations. And in this case, of course,

2 it's not an indication that we're intending to lead all or any of that

3 evidence; it's simply so that the Defence has any new information that's

4 coming out from that witness.

5 I don't know if this is giving rise to an impression that we're

6 intending to tender all that evidence. I can indicate that's certainly

7 not my intention.

8 JUDGE PARKER: I'm grateful for that, Mr. Behar, because you

9 might have encountered problems had you been trying. It has occurred

10 with one or two earlier witnesses, and hence the Chamber is sensitive and

11 Mr. Djurdjic is sensitive to what was a tendency to really have both

12 ways. So we are now concentrating on Rule 92 bis and the written

13 statement with some limited clarification and elaboration. We await the

14 witness.

15 MR. BEHAR: Yes, thank you, Your Honours. And of course the next

16 witness is Mehmet Mazrekaj.

17 [The witness entered court]

18 JUDGE PARKER: Good morning.

19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.

20 JUDGE PARKER: Would you please read aloud the affirmation on the

21 card which is shown to you now.

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

23 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

24 WITNESS: MEHMET MAZREKAJ

25 [Witness answered through interpreter]

Page 3834

1 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. Please sit down.

2 Mr. Behar has some questions for you.

3 Examination by Mr. Behar:

4 Q. Good morning, sir.

5 A. Good morning.

6 Q. Could you please provide us with your full name and date of birth

7 for the record.

8 A. My name is Mehmet Mazrekaj from Drenoc village, Decani

9 municipality, born on the 12th of May, 1944.

10 Q. I understand, sir, that you were a school teacher at a secondary

11 school in Decan; is that correct?

12 A. Yes, a teacher of a high school called Brothers Frasheri in

13 Decan.

14 Q. I understand, sir, that on the 4th of February of 2000 you gave a

15 statement to the Office of the Prosecutor about the events that occurred

16 in your village in 1998 and 1999; is that correct?

17 A. Yes, that's correct.

18 Q. And have you had a chance to review that statement before coming

19 to court today?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Now, I understand there are a couple of corrections or

22 clarifications that you'd like to make to that statement.

23 MR. BEHAR: Could we have up 65 ter number 02374.

24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, there were some minor mistakes

25 which I think I improved.

Page 3835

1 MR. BEHAR:

2 Q. Yes, thank you, sir. And I'll take you through them.

3 MR. BEHAR: I see we have the statement up on the screen. If we

4 could have it at page 6, please.

5 Q. In about the fifth paragraph there and the second line you

6 state - and I'm quoting - "the police was staying in Xhafer Zukaj's

7 house. At the end of that same paragraph it states:

8 "We were told to go to the basement of that house, and they would

9 let us know that in five minutes."

10 And let me ask you to be clear. Are you saying that you were

11 sent to the basement of this same house that the police were in or does a

12 change need to be made?

13 A. Something must be changed because I didn't mean the basement

14 where the policemen were but I meant the basement was in another house

15 where we were staying in that basement.

16 Q. Okay. So this was a different house; correct?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Can you tell us where this other house was roughly?

19 A. It was almost across the house where the policemen were staying.

20 Only a street separated them.

21 Q. Now on the next page, and I think it may actually be two pages

22 ahead of what we're showing on the screen here, it's what I show as

23 page 7, it's the page that begins in English with "an hour later..."

24 That's right. Thank you very much.

25 The first line of this page states:

Page 3836

1 "An hour later after we were held there, all villagers were

2 brought to Xhafer Zukaj's house ..."

3 Is this line correct? Were the villagers brought to Mr. Zukaj's

4 house?

5 A. No. Only some of us who had gone to ask the policemen -- the

6 police how the people -- the population of the village could go out.

7 Q. Right. Sir, I understand that you explained earlier in your

8 statement that some of you went to Mr. Zukaj's house, but when you're

9 talking about where the villagers were brought is this referring to the

10 different house that you mentioned to me before? Or were villagers being

11 brought to Mr. Zukaj's house?

12 A. No, it was another house. They didn't go to Xhafer Zukaj's house

13 because there the police and the army were staying.

14 Q. Thank you. And just so we're clear, this other house, is this

15 the same house that you mentioned to me a couple of minutes ago in the

16 first correction?

17 A. Yes, yes.

18 Q. Thank you. The next line states:

19 "My wife, my parents, and two old people were kept outside."

20 My question is: Where were those people kept outside? Was this

21 a different place? Was this a different house?

22 A. It was another house about 700 metres away from where we were

23 staying.

24 Q. Can you tell us what house that was, if you know?

25 A. This house was Adem Vishaj from Beleg.

Page 3837

1 Q. Thank you, sir. With those changes having been made, are you

2 satisfied that the information contained in this document is true and

3 accurate to the best of your knowledge and belief?

4 A. Yes, to my knowledge and belief it is completely accurate.

5 Q. Thank you.

6 MR. BEHAR: Your Honours, I would seek to tender that statement,

7 it's 65 ter number 02374.

8 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.

9 THE REGISTRAR: That will be assigned P00675, Your Honours.

10 MR. BEHAR:

11 Q. Sir, do you recall testifying at the trial of Milutinovic et al.

12 on the 2nd and 3rd of November, 2006?

13 A. Can you repeat it, please?

14 Q. Yes. Sir, do you remember testifying at the trial of

15 Milutinovic et al. on the 2nd and 3rd of November, 2006?

16 A. Yes, I was here.

17 Q. And have you had a chance to listen to the transcript of your

18 testimony from that trial?

19 A. Yes, I had a chance to listen to the transcript -- to read the

20 transcript.

21 Q. And does that transcript accurately reflect your evidence and

22 would you testify to the same facts today?

23 A. What I testified then, they were all accurate. There were,

24 however, a few minor mistakes in the Serbo-Croatian translation of them.

25 Q. Okay. Was the content of your answers correct, sir?

Page 3838

1 A. My answers were correct as far as I know. I tried to express

2 them accurately, but the translation was not very good. It should have

3 been in Albanian not in the Serbo-Croatian.

4 Q. Yes. Thank you, sir.

5 MR. BEHAR: Your Honours, I would seek to tender

6 65 ter number 05092, transcript of the witness's testimony.

7 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.

8 THE REGISTRAR: That will be assigned P00676, Your Honours.

9 MR. BEHAR: Your Honours, I can now provide a brief summary of

10 Mr. Mazrekaj's evidence, and I can indicate that it relates chiefly to

11 paragraphs 72(l) and 77 of the indictment.

12 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.

13 MR. BEHAR: Mr. Mazrekaj is a Kosovar Albanian male school

14 teacher who was born in the village of Drenoc in the Decani municipality.

15 He describes the events of what he calls the first offensive in

16 the summer of 1998, explaining that Serb forces shelled villages within

17 the Decani municipality from a hill and he describes how thousands of

18 villagers were displaced and forced to flee. Mr. Mazrekaj describes the

19 involvement of police and the use of check-points and explains how he

20 fled with his family before ultimately returning home to Drenoc months

21 later.

22 Mr. Mazrekaj also explains the events of 1999, beginning on the

23 27th of March. He describes that Serb police came to his village of

24 Drenoc and told the Albanians to leave because of the NATO bombing.

25 Mr. Mazrekaj made efforts to arrange for the civilians to leave and to be

Page 3839

1 able to cross through certain check-points. He eventually helped to lead

2 villagers from Drenoc to Beleg.

3 Mr. Mazrekaj describes the events the next day, when police came

4 to Beleg. He explains that police were operating out of the house of a

5 man named Xhafer Zukaj, that he went to that house to try to arrange for

6 Albanian civilians to peacefully leave the village. He was sent to the

7 basement of a nearby house along with large numbers of other Albanian

8 civilians where they were kept at gunpoint, both inside and outside of

9 the house. Mr. Mazrekaj describes the terrible conditions at that house

10 and the serious violence and looting that was visited on himself and on

11 other civilians. He also explains how the men were separated from the

12 women and that he saw that the village itself was being set on fire.

13 He describes how the next day police directed them to leave on

14 tractors, leading them along and then directing them to go towards

15 Albania. Mr. Mazrekaj escaped eventually making his way back to Isniq

16 where he rejoined his family. Serb forces then began shelling Isniq and

17 they fled to Albania. En route police were stopping people and taking

18 their documents and identification. Mr. Mazrekaj stayed in Albania with

19 his family for three months and returned to Kosovo on the

20 28th of June, 1999.

21 That ends the summary, Your Honours.

22 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.

23 MR. BEHAR:

24 Q. Sir, I do have some brief clarification questions for you in the

25 limited time that we have. You begin to describe the events of 1999 at

Page 3840

1 page 4 of your statement in the second last paragraph and you describe

2 that on the 27th of March the villagers gathered in the centre of town.

3 Can you tell us when the police arrived in your town that day and what,

4 if anything, was communicated to you.

5 A. That day the police arrived at around 8.00 in the morning.

6 Some -- they expelled some villagers and they ordered us to vacate the

7 village as soon as we possibly could because of the NATO air-strikes they

8 said.

9 Q. And was there any NATO bombing at that time that you observed?

10 A. The NATO bombing started on the 24th of March.

11 Q. And did you experience that in your village?

12 A. That day, we left the village and took the road towards Beleg, in

13 order to go to Isniq village. On the way, we had problems because the

14 main roads were blocked, so we had to pass through side-streets until we

15 reached Beleg village.

16 Q. Right. Just to clarify my last question, sir, I was just asking

17 if you experienced bombing yourself. Was your town bombed by NATO that

18 you experienced?

19 A. For the time we were there, it was not bombed. We heard the roar

20 of bombing in the direction of Gjakove and some other villages.

21 Q. Thank you. You explained in your statement that you went twice

22 to a check-point in Carrabreg to speak to police there to arrange to get

23 people out of the village. Can you just clarify for us, who was manning

24 that check-point and who was it that you spoke to?

25 A. It is true that I went there two times. I was together with some

Page 3841

1 other villagers. We failed to find an agreement with the police at the

2 check-point in Carrabreg. The leader of that check-point was

3 Zoran Djurisic, a policeman of road traffic police at Decan municipality.

4 The second time, I went together with the local police who were

5 chosen by the police chief to defend our village in order for us to agree

6 with them that they allow the population to pass through this

7 check-point. After we agreed, I returned to the village, but we couldn't

8 go there because during that period the police constantly kept separating

9 the women from men. So we were afraid to go there through the -- that

10 check-point. That's why we found -- we chose another route, to go to

11 Beleg village.

12 Q. And do you explain in your statement that you left Drenoc with

13 the villagers - I know you've just explained that you avoided the police

14 check-points and went to Beleg - you describe in page 5 in the final

15 paragraph of your statement on that page that on the 28th of March,

16 around 1.30 p.m. or 2.00 p.m. the police came to the village.

17 Can you explain to us how many police came at this time, just a

18 rough estimate ? Was it a large number or a small number?

19 A. They came by the police car -- three, there were three of them.

20 One of them was from Peje, I don't recall his name; another one was

21 police driver; and the other was a Roma, police -- he was called Ahmet.

22 Q. Now at page 6 of your statement in the fifth paragraph, you

23 describe going to talk to the police who were staying at Xhafer Zukaj's

24 house. Can you tell us, were these the same police that you described

25 arriving just now?

Page 3842

1 A. No, they were not the same. They were different. They were

2 different, those ones that were at Xhafer Zukaj's.

3 Q. So these police who were staying in Xhafer Zukaj's house, can you

4 tell us how and when those police arrived?

5 A. They came at night on the 28th of March, in the evening, and

6 entered the village of Beleg. It was a large group, but there were also

7 soldiers. They were those of Arkan and Seselj who were settled in

8 Felkisa [phoen] and Decan where it was children's kindergarten -- resort.

9 THE INTERPRETER: Correction.

10 MR. BEHAR:

11 Q. And the people that you've described as being the forces of

12 Arkan and Seselj, can you explain to us what they looked like, what they

13 were -- how they were dressed?

14 A. They had camouflage clothes. They were painted -- their faces

15 were painted. They had their own vehicles. They had police, army,

16 tanks, vehicles. Beleg was full of them.

17 Q. Just so I'm clear, when you're describing the vehicles, was it

18 only these forces you just described, these paramilitary forces, that had

19 vehicles, or did the police have vehicles as well ? Could you tell?

20 A. There were police vehicles, military vehicles. You could see

21 only the barrels directed towards us; after they took us out of the

22 basement we could see that. So these vehicles had the colours of the

23 army and the police; namely, they were blue and green.

24 Q. You described in your statement going to the police and asking

25 them for permission to leave the village, and you describe how they sent

Page 3843

1 you instead into a basement in a nearby house. Can you describe for this

2 Court what the conditions were like for you and for other people in the

3 basement?

4 A. That morning, some villagers came from Beleg, from my village, to

5 ask us to go to the police in order to ask their permission for us to go

6 from Beleg to Isniq village. When we went there, the police told us,

7 Come here. We talked with them. They said, After five minutes you have

8 to go to this house. When we went to that house, in the basement, we

9 found some families, women, children, old people. It was a horrible

10 situation because the basement and the house were not finished. They

11 were in the course of construction.

12 From there you could see what was going on outside. We could see

13 the barrels of the guns. Children and women started to cry. In the

14 meantime, other families were being brought in. There I recognised a

15 policeman. He was from Gjakova. I addressed him, and he said to me --

16 he said, I am not the one that you think I am, but I knew him very well.

17 I only didn't remember his name.

18 So the basement was constantly being filled in with people, with

19 new people.

20 Q. Thank you for that explanation, sir. Can you explain to us, was

21 it crowded and how many people were in that basement with you?

22 A. When I initially went there, there were about 20 persons, but the

23 number kept increasing until there was no more room for people to stay in

24 there. So people were staying around the basement, outside, but

25 surrounded by police.

Page 3844

1 Q. Sir, at page 7 of your statement, you described being beaten

2 quite badly by Zoran Djurisic, and you use the -- I'll just quote from

3 your statement. You say:

4 "Zoran would hit me once and other paramilitaries would hit me

5 back."

6 I wanted to clarify with you, was Zoran a police or did he look

7 like part of a paramilitary? Can you explain what forces Zoran was part

8 of?

9 A. I know Zoran very well. In 1978 he was a student in the high

10 school where I was teaching, then he went to another school, to the

11 police school in Vushtrri. After finishing that school, he started

12 working in the police station in Decan as a policeman -- as a road

13 police, traffic police.

14 Q. So were there other people there who you would describe as

15 paramilitary who were beating you at that time, as you described?

16 A. Most of them were policemen. In the front ranks there was

17 Zoran Djurisic who took away a child I was holding and started to kick

18 me -- to beat me, to hit me with blows and with the rifle-butt. So --

19 until I fainted.

20 Q. Thank you, sir.

21 MR. BEHAR: Your Honours, I think this may be a good time for the

22 morning break.

23 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you, Mr. Behar.

24 We must now have the first break which will be for half an hour,

25 and we resume at 11.00. You'll understand we have an adjournment now.

Page 3845

1 The court officer will take you to a waiting-room and we continue at

2 11.00. Thank you. We now adjourn.

3 --- Recess taken at 10.32 a.m.

4 --- On resuming at 11.02 a.m.

5 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.

6 Mr. Behar.

7 MR. BEHAR:

8 Q. Yes, sir, if we could pick up again where we left off earlier.

9 You described at page 7 of your statement that the local Albanian

10 policemen were also held together with you and that they were disarmed

11 and beaten as well. My question for you is: Can you tell us who those

12 Albanian policemen that you described were?

13 A. Yes. The local Albanian policemen were from my village. They

14 were two brothers, Shaban and Ali Kadrijaj. They were from Drenoc

15 village.

16 Q. And can you describe for us, sir, who was beating them?

17 A. The police that were there, that had surrounded us. They set

18 them aside, took their badges, and also their weapons that once they

19 issued to them in the past.

20 Q. You mentioned earlier in your statement a person named

21 Male Vishaj and you described him as "a Serb collaborator." Can you

22 explain to us, to the Court, what you meant by that term, "Serb

23 collaborator"?

24 A. Male was from Beleg village. He was an activist in the past, and

25 he was friends with the chief of the police in Decan. He promised to us

Page 3846

1 that nothing was going to happen to us in Beleg.

2 Q. So when you say "collaborator," was it just that he was someone

3 who had good relations with the Serbs; is that fair? Or how would you

4 best describe that?

5 A. He got -- he was in good relations with the Serbs. He worked in

6 the water-supply company there, and he had many Serb acquaintances.

7 Q. Sir, can you tell us what happened to Male Vishaj?

8 A. Male was also beaten by them. They removed his ring from his

9 finger and returned the ring to him later on.

10 Q. You described at page 8 of your statement - this is in the fourth

11 paragraph - that you saw that the village was set on fire. Can you

12 explain to us what it was that you saw?

13 A. When the war started at around 9.00 they started to torch the

14 houses, especially the most beautiful houses, those that were not

15 finished completely, they were not that -- quite damaged; but the others

16 were and they set fire to them.

17 Q. I believe you also made some observations about seeing fires --

18 the setting of fires when you were being held in the room of the house.

19 Is that accurate and can you explain what you saw then?

20 A. The houses around the place where we were were all on fire, in

21 flames.

22 Q. Can you tell us where you made those observations from?

23 A. In the house, the basement that was mentioned earlier.

24 Q. And so could you see out from the basement where you were to see

25 those fires?

Page 3847

1 A. The basement was not finished completely. It was open upstairs,

2 but later on we were taken outside by them, and you could clearly see

3 that the whole village was burning.

4 Q. Thank you, sir. Moving ahead a little bit, you explained at

5 page 9 of your statement that in the morning a policeman came and told

6 you to put women and children on tractors and to leave Beleg. Can you

7 tell us how many people left that way?

8 A. That morning, the policeman came to the place where we were, he

9 came to the second floor, and he said to us, Whoever has a tractor should

10 collect the people and head towards Decan. There were many people there,

11 children, women, and so on. On the 30th, they separated the youths and

12 only the elderly, the women, and the children were allowed to get on the

13 tractors and move towards Decan. They had to follow a field road that

14 was going towards Gjakova and Decan.

15 When we arrived at the tractors, there was police presence, there

16 was -- there were Pinzgauers. When we arrived at Carrabreg, they told us

17 to go back into the direction of Gjakova and proceed towards Albania.

18 Q. Okay. And, sir, perhaps you could explain that to us a little

19 bit. Can you tell us who told you to go to Albania and how it was

20 communicated?

21 A. The policemen; I don't know their names. We didn't know at that

22 time that we were going to Albania. We were told initially that we were

23 going to Decan, but when we arrived at Carrabreg, there we were told to

24 go in the direction of Gjakove and from there towards Albania.

25 Q. And I know you described escaping, and I'll have a question for

Page 3848

1 you about that in a moment. But at the time that you were still with the

2 group, could you make any observations about the police? Were they

3 accompanying people as they went to Albania or how were the police

4 positioned?

5 A. When we arrived at Carrabreg, they told us to take the road

6 towards Gjakova. The road was full of police and vehicles and

7 Pinzgauers. The check-points that I passed through on the second

8 location -- second occasion, because on the first occasion I got off and

9 went to look for my family, that was in Beleg. I got off the tractor and

10 Zekije Nitaj from my village started to drive the tractor in the

11 direction of Albania. Myself I got off the tractor and through the

12 fields I walked towards Beleg.

13 Q. Thank you, sir. And you explained, I know, in your statement

14 that after you escaped, you eventually made your way to Isniq. You then

15 described the Serbs shelling Isniq. Can you tell us when it was that the

16 Serbs shelled Isniq?

17 A. It's Isniq not Irzniq. I arrived in Isniq the following day. I

18 remained there for two days. It's when the shelling started. There was

19 so many people there. The whole village was filled with people. The

20 fields around were filled with people. People from the villages of that

21 municipality had all gathered there. The shelling was ongoing. Strellc

22 was shelled and the villages around that area, they were shelling from

23 the location called Podi i Geshtenjane then Suku i Biteshit and other

24 positions occupied by the Serb police and military forces. Therefore, we

25 were forced to leave this village too and head towards Albania.

Page 3849

1 Q. Can you tell us if you are aware of any interactions with the

2 police or police authorities in Isniq?

3 A. It was a huge crowd of people. The police in Decan issued the

4 order to the police there that we had to leave that area, the chief of

5 the police in the police station in Decan, Buda --

6 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter didn't get the last name.

7 MR. BEHAR:

8 Q. Sir, can you just -- I think we had a problem with the

9 interpretation - just repeat the last name. So the chief of the police

10 at the police station in Decan and then we missed the last name --

11 A. Vukmir was his name known as Vula [Realtime transcript read in

12 error, "Bula"] and his last name was Mircic.

13 Q. Thank you. So you just described in your last answer that the

14 police in Decan issued the order that you had to leave, and then you

15 mentioned something about the chief of police. Can you explain again for

16 us what it was that the chief of police did?

17 A. I personally didn't talk to him, but the villagers from Isniq and

18 the leaders in the village told us that we had to leave the village and

19 head towards Albania.

20 Q. And did the leaders of the village speak to the chief of police?

21 Is that what you're saying?

22 A. It was a huge crowd of people that we joined and people kept

23 joining this convoy of people leaving Isniq towards Albania.

24 Q. Okay. Just to reiterate my question, maybe it's not coming

25 through clearly. I'm just trying to understand your earlier answer, and

Page 3850

1 I think there were some problems with the interpretation. Were there

2 conversations with the chief of police that were communicated to you; and

3 if so, can you explain those?

4 A. When we joined the convoy, we were told that he had instructed

5 some leaders, local policemen.

6 Q. When you say "he," you mean the chief of police had instructed

7 some leaders?

8 A. Yes, Vula.

9 Q. And what did he instruct them to do?

10 A. He had instructed them to tell all the families there to leave

11 the village and head towards Albania.

12 Q. Thank you, sir. I think that's clear. And can you tell us how

13 you came to know that?

14 A. Well, everybody left towards Albania. We joined that convoy.

15 Everybody from every village in the municipality was there.

16 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Djurdjic.

17 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I believe that this

18 is really beyond 92 bis now, a completely new topic has been opened now

19 which did not feature in the Milutinovic trial or in the statement. I

20 did not want to interrupt earlier, but there were have been already

21 questions of that kind.

22 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Behar.

23 MR. BEHAR: Thank you, Your Honours. I appreciate the objection.

24 I think I ended up spending a lot more time on that than I intended. I

25 was just trying to clarify the answer. I don't have any more questions

Page 3851

1 about that area, but I wanted to make sure that we had the answer clear.

2 Q. Sir, the final area of my questioning. You said that -- you say

3 at the end of your statement that:

4 "They took our documents and IDs in the Gjakova bridge called

5 Ura e Shejte," [sic] I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing that right, it's

6 S-h-e-j-t-e. Can I ask you, sir, who was it who took the documents from

7 your group?

8 A. The documents and IDs were taken from us on the Ura e Shenjte

9 bridge on the bridge in the direction of Gjakova. Whoever had money left

10 on them, that money was also taken by the police that was positioned

11 there near the Ura e Shenjte at Kodra e Shenjte; however, some documents

12 were taken away from us the following day when we were at the border.

13 Q. Can you tell us, sir, did they take documents from you

14 particularly?

15 A. They didn't take my documents. I removed them from my pockets

16 because I knew they were going to take them away. I hid them in the

17 tractor, in the hay in the tractor.

18 Q. And did you see the police taking documents from others?

19 A. Could you please repeat your question?

20 Q. Sure. I was just asking if you had seen the police taking

21 documents from other people.

22 A. Yes, I saw that with my own eyes.

23 Q. And can you explain who the other people were that you saw them

24 taking documents from? You don't have to give the names, but were they

25 the people that were with you? Were they farther away? If you could

Page 3852

1 just tell that to the Court.

2 A. They took the documents from my father, mother, wife, and other

3 co-villagers that were on the same tractor with us.

4 Q. Thank you very much, sir. Those are my questions for you.

5 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.

6 Mr. Djurdjic.

7 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

8 Cross-examination by Mr. Djurdjic:

9 Q. [Interpretation] Good morning, Mr. Mazrekaj. I'm

10 Veljko Djurdjic --

11 A. Good afternoon.

12 Q. -- member of the Defence team for the accused,

13 Vlastimir Djordjevic, with the assistance of Ms. Marie O'Leary, also

14 member of our team. I have a few questions for you. If a question is

15 not clear to you, please let me know. I'll try to rephrase it. I'd like

16 to start from your evidence given earlier today and some discrepancies

17 I've noted.

18 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would like to ask for

19 Exhibit P676 to be displayed on the screen, that's the transcript from

20 the Milutinovic trial, page 5838, line 10 through 12. 5838, please.

21 Q. Witness, you have just said that at one of the bridges, documents

22 were not taken away from you because you've -- you had hidden them, and

23 here in the Milutinovic trial it says:

24 "Q. ... did you turn over any documents that day?

25 "A. No. I did not have any documents on me that day, so I

Page 3853

1 didn't hand anything over."

2 A. It is true that I said that. The reference was not made only to

3 IDs or passports. It was a pile of documents, diplomas, certificates,

4 that had taken -- been taken away at other check-points. The documents,

5 these diplomas, certificates, these were the ones that I hid.

6 Q. Just tell me, is this quotation correct:

7 "A. No. I did not have any documents on me, so I didn't hand

8 anything over."

9 Is that correct?

10 A. I did hear the readback of the transcript, and I heard that

11 during the trial, that's why I mentioned at the outset that the

12 interpretation was very bad during that trial. It was in B/C/S and I

13 only wish that I had received interpretation in Albanian at that time.

14 Q. Thank you, Mr. Mazrekaj. Let's move on. Earlier today, speaking

15 of Istinic village, you said that the chief of SUP Decani gave an order

16 and spoke to the population of Isniq village, saying that they had to go

17 to Albania and you said they related this to you and you said a lot of

18 things.

19 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we display page 5813 from

20 the Milutinovic transcript.

21 Q. Please look at lines 9 through 13.

22 "A. I remember that day very well. I left the convoy and went

23 to look for my relatives, my family. On the 30th, I arrived at Istinic

24 and joined my family. On the 30th, shelling started, so we had to leave

25 en masse, all the inhabitants that were in Isniq at the time ... had to

Page 3854

1 go towards Albania."

2 Is this correct?

3 A. On the 30th - it's a mistake there - this is the first exit --

4 the first time when we left Beleg; the second time is in Isniq, not the

5 30th. We left Isniq two days later.

6 Q. Thank you. May I conclude that it was a misinterpretation?

7 A. Most probably. This is what I keep saying. I should have

8 received interpretation in Albanian, not in B/C/S, so that I could

9 explain things better.

10 Q. Thank you.

11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can I now call up 5836, lines 7

12 through 17.

13 Q. In response to the question:

14 "Q. And now, when you went to Isniq to be with your family and

15 then decided to leave for Albania, am I correct that at that point in

16 time there were no policeman present who ordered you or otherwise told

17 you to go to Albania, were there?"

18 You answered:

19 "A. There was a very large group of people in Isniq from

20 different villages, and shelling started from Strellc, so from the

21 western part of Isniq and from Podi i Geshtenjane. So the villagers said

22 we had to leave and all of us took the way towards Albania."

23 And then the question:

24 "Q. And there were no policemen present at that time in the

25 village when the villagers told you to leave and when you left for

Page 3855

1 Albania?"

2 Your answer:

3 "A. I did not see them."

4 Was this correctly interpreted?

5 A. When the shelling started, it started from the direction of

6 Podi i Geshtenjane. They shelled Strellc. The principal of the school,

7 Nazif Ferizaj [phoen], was killed. The police was there on the road from

8 Decan -- Peje-Decan road and the houses were being burned. That's why we

9 had to leave Isniq and head towards Albania.

10 Q. Mr. Mazrekaj, I read back to you this portion of the transcript.

11 Now please tell me, was it correctly interpreted or not?

12 A. In Serbian it was not correctly translated.

13 Q. Just one last question relating to this. For the first time

14 today you mentioned the chief of the SUP in Decani. You mentioned

15 policemen and you did not mention any policemen or this conversation with

16 the villagers, you didn't mention it in your -- in your testimony in

17 Milutinovic nor in this 2004 statement. How do you explain that?

18 A. It's known to everyone, Vula was the chief of the police for

19 Decan community for 60.000 inhabitants. Vula was the one who, together

20 with the police, drove us out of our homes, of our work. You know, they

21 dismissed us. So he was the one who called on the Decane population to

22 leave.

23 Q. Mr. Mazrekaj, you are a teacher and you can understand my

24 question well, so please answer my question. For the first time today

25 you mentioned this chief of Decani police, this Vuleta Mircic, and for

Page 3856

1 the first time, you've mentioned that the police told any of the

2 villagers that they need to go to Albania and that this -- and that that

3 was the reason why you headed for Albania. Why did you fail to mention

4 that in the Milutinovic case when you testified here under oath and why

5 was it missing from your 2004 statement? Please just explain that; if

6 you cannot explain, we can just move on. There is no contest as to who

7 was the chief of police in Decani.

8 A. It is a fact that I didn't mention it because we had more

9 dealings with the chiefs of the cross -- check-points, but everybody knew

10 that he was leading the police who was number one among them. I have

11 left out many things in my statement because what happened in Decan was a

12 rare event in Kosova. I tried to include in it many things, but not

13 everything because I really regret that many of them are not yet here in

14 this Tribunal because we in our village have lost 171 persons.

15 Q. Thank you, Mr. Mazrekaj. You said today --

16 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I just need to

17 explain something so that we can follow this more easily. The

18 statement -- the 2002 statement, I marked paragraphs 1 through 65, and

19 for each of these paragraph numbers I will mention the page in English

20 and also in the Albanian version so that we can follow this more easily,

21 and that's how I also prepared my notes here.

22 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction: 2000 statement, the

23 statement from 2000.

24 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation].

25 Q. Now, Witness, you've told us today - and this is in paragraph 61,

Page 3857

1 in the English version this will be on page 10, and in Albanian it's also

2 on page 10 - you've told us today that you were ordered to go to

3 Djakovica and then on to Albania. And in your 2000 statement you say:

4 "On the way to Decani I realised that we were being sent towards

5 Djakovica, so I stopped to see my family."

6 So you never said at any point there that anyone had ordered you

7 to do so; this was your conclusion, rather.

8 A. I went to look for my family on the 30th. I left the convoy when

9 we left Beleg. So it's not what you are putting to me, as what -- as you

10 are saying now.

11 Q. Would you please read this portion:

12 "On the way to Decani I realised that we were being directed

13 towards Djakovica ..."

14 Please read that portion if you can. You can see it on the

15 screen.

16 A. The road to Gjakove is the road to Albania. You have to change

17 that. That is the direction towards Albania.

18 Q. Thank you. All right. We'll change that. Now, in

19 paragraph 36 - in English that's page 11, the fifth paragraph from the

20 top; and in the Albanian version that will be on page 6, the fourth

21 paragraph from the top - Mr. Mazrekaj, - and I'm referring to this

22 portion:

23 "A group of villagers arrived and we went to discuss ..."

24 So today for the first time you mention Arkan's and Seselj's men.

25 Up until now I've noticed that there was no mention of them. You never

Page 3858

1 mentioned them or described them. You did mention paramilitary units and

2 you described what they were and this was in your testimony in the

3 Milutinovic trial, but you never mentioned Seselj's and Arkan's men.

4 A. That's true because when we were in Beleg on the 29th and

5 the 30th, we couldn't tell them from one another. But now and again I

6 fainted because of being badly beaten. And I recall that they were

7 situated in the children's resort house in Decan and then they came and

8 surrounded Beleg.

9 Q. Thank you. And you remembered to mention that today?

10 A. [B/C/S interpretation] No, not today. I've said this before

11 already. No.

12 Q. All right, we can move on. Now I would like to ask you when you

13 went to Crnobreg for the first time to ask whether you may go to Isniq,

14 could you just tell me, what was the village -- the name of the village

15 that you said you were going to?

16 A. [Albanian interpretation] Isniq, I went to Carrabreg to ask the

17 police at the check-point to allow us to pass through the check-point and

18 not be obliged to take the side-streets and walk through the fields.

19 Q. Thank you, so Isniq. Now please tell us who was in the car with

20 you when you went to Crnobreg for the first time to ask whether you would

21 be allowed to pass?

22 A. I was there two times. Are you asking me about the first or the

23 second time?

24 Q. I mean the first time when you went there by car.

25 A. During the first time was Zenel Zogaj [as interpreted].

Page 3859

1 THE INTERPRETER: Could you ask him to repeat the name of the

2 person, please?

3 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

4 Q. Thank you. There was no one else?

5 A. The second time there were other people, but I wasn't interested

6 in them. We were in Zoran's car.

7 THE INTERPRETER: Correction.

8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Zoran took our car, he confiscated

9 it.

10 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

11 Q. Thank you. No, I only asked about the first time. Now let's

12 move on. You've told us today - and this is in paragraph 23 of your

13 statement, in English that's on page 4 and in Albanian it is also on page

14 4 - in this paragraph you say:

15 "On the 27th March, 1999, around 8.30, I went out and saw the

16 villagers who had gathered in the centre. Four families from the village

17 of Sllup came to our village. Local Albanian policemen told us not to

18 leave the village because nothing would happen to us."

19 And today you told us that some policemen came and told you that

20 because of bombing you had to leave the village.

21 A. I think it's clear. The policemen who came to tell us to leave

22 the village were from Decan police station. Those who told us to stay in

23 the village were our co-villagers, local police. They thought that they

24 were charged with a very noble function, to save us from the Serbs, but

25 that was in vain.

Page 3860

1 Q. But in your statement you only mention four families from the

2 Slup village --

3 A. [B/C/S interpretation] No, not four families but 37 people and it

4 is clearly stated there. I have it in my brief-case here.

5 Q. Well, I think here it is very clear in your statement. It says

6 on the 27th of May -- March, but let's move on. We can see what's

7 written there and the Trial Chamber will assess this.

8 Mr. Mazrekaj, tell me, please, who did you stay with in Drenoc in

9 1999 or who did you live with in Drenoc in 1999, in March?

10 A. [Albanian interpretation] You are asking me about my family or

11 about the other villagers?

12 Q. No, I'm asking about your family.

13 A. With my wife, my mother, and my father.

14 Q. Thank you. Tell me, please, did you live in a joint household or

15 were these separate families -- separate households?

16 A. That's my house. I was born there, I was grown up there, it's

17 not an alien house, it's my house.

18 Q. Thank you. If I am right, you also had a brother. Did he live

19 with you in the same house?

20 A. Even today we live together, but at the time he used to work in

21 Peje. He is a well-known person, he is a surgeon.

22 Q. Thank you. Tell me, please, your family property, the house that

23 you had and the courtyard around it, was it fenced off with a wall?

24 A. No, not all of it.

25 Q. Thank you. Which part was fenced off?

Page 3861

1 A. Only the upper part, but there were no gates. The other part was

2 fenced off with a wooden fence, then there were the stairs. Two times

3 the police and the army settled in my house.

4 Q. Thank you. How high was the fence, or rather, the wall?

5 A. [B/C/S interpretation] Well, I didn't measure them. [Albanian

6 interpretation] In some places 4 metres, in some places 2 metres. They

7 destroyed the house and final they set fire to it.

8 Q. Thank you. Could you please tell us on what material was the

9 wall built on.

10 A. The first floor was made of stone, the second floor was made of

11 bricks.

12 Q. Thank you. And what about the wall, the wall around?

13 A. In the upper part it was built of concrete blocks, on the western

14 part with wood, on the southern part there was the haystack and it was

15 also built with wooden planks.

16 Q. Thank you. You are familiar with the customs in the village in

17 that area. Is it customary for the family properties to be walled-in, to

18 be fenced-off with walls, such as the one that you had?

19 A. I don't understand what you are asking me about. Can you please

20 repeat it?

21 Q. Thank you. In towns and also in villages in the area where you

22 lived, in Decani and in other villages, in other parts of the

23 country-side in Kosovo and Metohija, was it traditional to have walls

24 around the courtyard?

25 A. The one who can afford to can fence -- can build a fence around

Page 3862

1 the house. There is not any custom that tells you to build a fence or

2 not. Whoever can afford does that. It depends on the economic means.

3 Q. Thank you. Could you please tell us, where did you graduate from

4 university and when, with your major in geography?

5 A. I graduated in 1976 in Prishtina. I graduated from the

6 Faculty of Natural Sciences for Geography.

7 Q. Thank you. I noticed in your statement that between 1981 and

8 1985 you worked in Germany. What type of jobs did you have there?

9 A. From 1991 [as interpreted] to 1985 I worked as a teacher in

10 Germany for four years. I worked with the Albanian kids, teaching them

11 from the first grade to the high school.

12 Q. Thank you. Please tell us just exactly what years were you in

13 Germany from for the transcript.

14 A. [B/C/S interpretation] From 1981 to 1985. I can tell you either

15 in Serbian or in Albanian, you choose.

16 Q. Thank you. Tell me, please, were these state schools in Germany

17 where you taught Albanian children there?

18 A. [Albanian interpretation] It was kind of supplementary teaching

19 in Albanian. We were simply complementing their programme. It was done

20 for the Albanian population living in Germany.

21 Q. Thank you. But you were employed by -- who financed your

22 employment, the SFRY?

23 A. It was -- I was financed by Kosova Community of Education plus a

24 part was financed by the German government.

25 Q. Thank you. When you returned from Germany, did you start working

Page 3863

1 in a state school in Decani?

2 A. They had kept my place of work in this high school called

3 Brothers Frasheri in Decan. I returned and resumed to work immediately

4 until 1991 when we were dismissed together with 135 teachers and 2.550

5 students. And then after that, we continued teaching in private homes,

6 make-shift facilities, in villages that the villagers made available for

7 us. They drove us away from schools. And this school, which was in an

8 area of 5.200 square metres, was used only for 36 students of Montenegrin

9 ethnicity.

10 Q. Thank you. After 1990 were you a member of a political party?

11 A. I used to be a member of the political party of Ibrahim Rugova,

12 LDK.

13 Q. Thank you. Were you an official for your village or the Decani

14 municipality?

15 A. I was never an official. I was simply a professor in my village.

16 I have taken care of my village. After the first offensive, I had 520

17 members in my village. I took care of the 37 members of Sllup family. I

18 took care of them to provide as much assistance as I could to them.

19 Q. Thank you. Is it fair to say that you were the elder of the

20 village?

21 A. Could you please repeat?

22 Q. Am I right in saying that you were the elder of the village?

23 A. We didn't have that title in the village at the time. We don't

24 have it now either. Families remained in our village, children, elderly,

25 women, who needed help; and I tried to provide them with as much

Page 3864

1 assistance as possible, distributed humanitarian aid to them, and

2 protected them to the extent that I could.

3 Q. Thank you. In paragraphs 6 and 7 of your statement you say that

4 there were in the village six Serbian families and that they left in

5 1998. Did they later return?

6 A. It is true that these families, Montenegrin families, lived in my

7 village. Four of these families lived near the primary school; another

8 house, the Zecevic -- Jovan Zecevic's family lived in my neighbourhood;

9 and there was another family, Mijatovic family, who left the village very

10 early. They left the village because of economic reasons.

11 When the war broke out, the other families left the village and

12 moved to apartments in Decan under the pretext of being able to protect

13 themselves better, but their aim was to appropriate apartments there.

14 They had no problems whatsoever from our side. We looked after their

15 cattle and even when they came back from the town of Decan to tend to

16 their cattle in the village, we didn't cause them any harm. They could

17 freely come back and return to Decan whenever they wanted.

18 Q. Thank you. In 1999, in March, were these families in the village

19 or not?

20 A. Could you please repeat the question?

21 Q. These Serbian families, were they in the village in March 1999

22 when the war began?

23 A. They were in Decan.

24 Q. Mr. Mazrekaj, in paragraph 8 - and we're still talking about

25 1998 - you talk about a hill called Podi i Geshtenjane, excuse my

Page 3865

1 pronunciation. Can you recognise what hill I'm talking about?

2 A. It is true that it is a forest there, but the area is called --

3 the hill is called Podi i Geshtenjane. That's where the police and the

4 military were positioned together with their police and military

5 artillery and equipment. And from there they were shelling in the

6 direction of our village.

7 Q. Thank you. And where is that hill?

8 A. Podi i Geshtenjane is near the children resort north-west from

9 Decan.

10 Q. Thank you. And how far is it from your village?

11 A. From my village or from Decan?

12 Q. From your village.

13 A. [B/C/S interpretation] 3 kilometres or so.

14 [Albanian interpretation] Maybe more than that.

15 Q. Is your village to the south of Decani?

16 A. From Decan my village would be to the south-west of Decan.

17 Q. And how many kilometres is it from your village to Decani?

18 A. Three and a half kilometres approximately.

19 Q. And from Decani to the hill?

20 A. About 1 kilometre. It's a hill just above Decan.

21 Q. Were you able to see the artillery from your village?

22 A. No, I didn't have binoculars. It's a mountain, it's a forest,

23 and the name itself, Podi i Geshtenjane, indicates that.

24 Q. Thank you.

25 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can I call up D002-4026. Could we

Page 3866

1 zoom in on the area of Decani. Exactly. Perhaps zoom in a little.

2 That's Decani.

3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Here is Decan.

4 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we zoom in once again so the

5 witness can mark his village and some other villages I'm interested in.

6 They're all on the map.

7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] This is Decan, here is Drenoc.

8 Decan, Drenoc.

9 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

10 Q. Thank you, Mr. Mazrekaj. This dot you marked, which place is

11 that?

12 A. Just above Drenoc here is Lloqan, then you have Hulaj and then

13 Pobergje.

14 Q. Thank you. This is Locane which you marked in red?

15 A. [B/C/S interpretation] Yes.

16 Q. And that's on the other road going to Decani, the one going to

17 Junik, and Drenovci is on the other road?

18 A. [Albanian interpretation] Yes, you're right that village is on

19 the road that takes you to Junik.

20 Q. [Previous translation continues]... thank you. And this dot

21 where Drenovac is, could you put a circle around it and a number 1.

22 A. I cannot see it clearly, Drenoc, because Lloqan and Drenoc seem

23 to share the same dot.

24 Q. [Previous translation continues]... never mind.

25 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Let the image remain, please.

Page 3867

1 Q. Mr. Mazrekaj, you cannot orient yourself on this map and mark it

2 precisely, but let the map stay so that at least the rest of us can see

3 the places marked there.

4 Mr. Mazrekaj, how did you find out that the air-strikes started?

5 A. I saw that from my village, the shells landing in the direction

6 of my village and other villages, Hulaj, Pobergje, and other villages

7 from Podi i Geshtenjane. There was uninterrupted shelling.

8 Q. When was that, if you know?

9 A. On the 29th of May, when Decan was bombed for the first time.

10 Q. Thank you. You're talking about 1998, whereas I'm asking you

11 about 1999. How did you find out that the war began in March 1999?

12 A. I was in the village when the war began.

13 Q. Thank you. Is it correct that you did not see this incident when

14 Locane was set on fire?

15 A. Lloqan is 1 kilometre far from my village. The village is

16 situated on the south-western part. To the north of the village we could

17 not move freely because of the police orders of the time. I was in my

18 home, and it was impossible to observe what was going on up there.

19 Therefore, I didn't know what was going on.

20 Q. All right. But with regard to paragraph 28, you've already told

21 me who was in the car with you. But when you got to Crnobreg, you were

22 intercepted and stopped by the police. And when you told them that there

23 were 520 families who wanted to go to Rznic [as interpreted] village,

24 they let you pass. Is that correct?

25 A. This was the second time that I went to Carrabreg to ask for

Page 3868

1 permission. They surrounded us immediately. I asked Mr. Zoran kindly.

2 I said to him, I'm here to ask you whether it would be possible for me

3 and the 520 people in the village and the 37 people from Sllup to pass

4 through here. He said, Yes. But when I returned in the village and

5 spoke to the villagers, we realised that it was dangerous because there

6 were many incidents when men were being separated from the women and the

7 children, and that's why we didn't trust them. We couldn't go through

8 that check-point.

9 Q. I'm sorry. Please don't hold it against me, but is it worth

10 putting perhaps the statement on the screen? Would you be able to read

11 the statement from the screen so you can explain certain things more

12 easily. If you can't read it then I won't ask for the statement to be

13 displayed, then we could move on.

14 [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]

15 JUDGE PARKER: You want to retain this image on the screen?

16 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] No.

17 JUDGE PARKER: Then we'll put it on the screen.

18 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] This image cannot be evidence. If

19 I want to clarify something, I would ask for the witness's assistance.

20 Q. Did you understand me, Mr. Mazrekaj? Is it worth the trouble of

21 putting the statement in Albanian on the screen? Would you be able to,

22 with your glasses, to read it?

23 A. I have the hard copy of my statement here in my bag, but if you

24 want me to read, it I'll do my best to read it from the screen.

25 Q. You know why? I think because -- I think we are getting more and

Page 3869

1 more confused. When I say paragraph 27 or 28 that's page 5 in Serbian.

2 That's the first time you were going to Beleg village and reaching the

3 police check-point. It's not the second time when you spoke to them

4 about those 520 families. That's the first time you were going to Beleg

5 from your village. Now I'd like to ask you: Why did you not lead the

6 villagers as you had agreed?

7 A. There was no agreement. We all knew what was going to happen,

8 and this happened later on, on the 30th, in Beleg. We didn't trust the

9 police. That's why we didn't dare go through the check-point there at

10 Carrabreg.

11 Q. The two of you who were going to inquire were allowed to return

12 by the police?

13 A. They allowed us to return because we told them that we were going

14 to come back with the remaining population through that check-point.

15 They were ready to separate us from our women and children and to loot

16 us, and this is what happened with many other people.

17 Q. Thank you. Why then did you go to that check-point to inquire?

18 A. Because we thought that they would behave properly towards us,

19 like humans, not like animals.

20 Q. Thank you. You go on to say in your statement that you went via

21 Prilep to Beleg village, and in that village the locals told you that

22 18 Serbian soldiers had been killed. I'd like to ask you: Were you told

23 where these Serbian soldiers were killed?

24 A. No. The villagers didn't say anything to us about this killing.

25 Zoran Djurisic told us about this. He knew me very well. He said to me,

Page 3870

1 Professor, your students killed us at Pozhar village, and we don't even

2 dare and go and collect the bodies in Pozhar. He was the one who told me

3 about this, not the population.

4 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I'd like to see page 5 of the

5 Albanian statement, please. Page 5 of the English version, third

6 paragraph from the bottom.

7 Q. To speed things up, please look at the screen while I read.

8 "The locals of Beleg told us to stay because 18 Serbian soldiers

9 had been killed and the roads were therefore blocked."

10 Is this statement accurate?

11 A. This is what they knew. They were informed about this. The road

12 was blocked towards Lumbardh and Dashinoc and that's why we stopped at

13 Beleg that night because it was impossible to proceed. We went to

14 different houses where we could find shelter and room for the night.

15 Q. Please give me brief answers. Did they tell you where the

16 soldiers had been killed or not?

17 A. No, just that gun-fire was heard because there was a

18 confrontation with the KLA forces in Pozhar village.

19 Q. Would you tell me if you know how the KLA came to be in Pozar

20 village?

21 A. I don't know what happened there that night. I wasn't there. I

22 know that the villagers of Pozhar saw that. The police then took the

23 anger out at the population, civilian population that lived in their own

24 houses in that village.

25 Q. Thank you. What is the KLA?

Page 3871

1 A. It is the Kosovo Liberation Army.

2 Q. What do you know about that army?

3 A. It was a liberation army of the state of Kosova, now state of

4 Kosova, that fought for the rights of the Albanians in Kosova.

5 Q. Thank you. How was this struggle by the KLA carried out?

6 A. They know best. I didn't take part in that struggle. They know

7 best how they fought.

8 Q. Thank you.

9 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I think this is the

10 time for the break.

11 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, indeed.

12 We will have our second adjournment now and resume at 1.00.

13 --- Recess taken at 12.30 p.m.

14 --- On resuming at 1.03 p.m.

15 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.

16 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.

17 Q. Mr. Mazrekaj, you've said today that you were in another house,

18 in a different house, and not in Xhafer Zukaj's house. In your 2000

19 statement in paragraphs 36, 39, 43, and 46 you mentioned the basement of

20 Xhafer Zukaj's house, and only later you say that in the evening or

21 toward the evening you moved to another house to the second floor, I

22 believe this was in paragraph 52 and 53 of your statement.

23 Now, what I don't understand now is - and please explain

24 it - when the police detained you that second time, didn't they keep you

25 in the basement in that house and wasn't all this happening in the

Page 3872

1 situation where these police actually detained you, stopped you from

2 going anywhere, or was it different?

3 A. The police didn't detain me from going to another place. At

4 Zukaj's house, the police were situated. The military were around it.

5 Beleg is not my village, it's another village; but I was informed that in

6 the house which was not fully completed, constructed, that belonged to

7 Rram Cenaj [phoen] where we were staying in that basement. When they

8 took us out, and in the evening when they put us in the second floor, to

9 make it clear to you, we were not in the basement of Zukaj but in the

10 basement of Rram Cenaj's [phoen] house as far as I recall.

11 Q. Thank you. And now please tell us, this second time when you

12 travelled to Crnobreg from Beleg village, in other words you were in

13 Beleg, and then nine of you, and you were the tenth, set off for

14 Crnobreg. How did you do this?

15 A. It's not true that we went from Beleg to Carrabreg. We went from

16 Drenoc to Carrabreg on the second time. I don't think it's written in my

17 statement that we went from Beleg to Carrabreg.

18 Q. So what you're saying is that after this second time when you

19 returned from Crnobreg, you actually went to Beleg?

20 A. When I returned from Carrabreg I went to my own village.

21 Together with the other inhabitants, we set off for Beleg from Drenoc.

22 Q. Mr. Mazrekaj, in paragraph 29 you say: "When I arrived in

23 Drenoc," in other words that was on that first occasion when you returned

24 when you said that this Zoran was going to wait for you at the

25 check-point, you returned through Drenoc from Crnobreg and then via

Page 3873

1 Prilep you went to Beleg and then you go on to talk about Beleg. And

2 then you say that the villagers - and this is in paragraph 36 - asked you

3 and specifically Male Vishaj, Sheqer Mazrekaj, Shaban Idrizalaj,

4 Shaban Nitaj, Ise Tolaj, Mehmet Tolaj, and Misin Tolaj that you were to

5 go to Xhafer Zukaj's house.

6 A. Yes, we went that morning to ask the police where we could go

7 from Beleg village with these people, which road to take to go to Isniq.

8 Q. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear, Mr. Mazrekaj. On the first

9 occasion you went by car with another person whose name you mentioned,

10 and this was described in paragraph 27 and paragraph 28 of your

11 statement. And all these other nine or ten individuals that are named

12 who went to you on another occasion again to Xhafer Zukaj's house, this

13 is in paragraph 36. Was that -- this what I was reading from the

14 statement correct or not, please just tell us.

15 A. You have not understood correctly. For the first and second time

16 I left from Drenoc for Carrabreg. You are mixing up Beleg here. I said

17 several times that we went that morning to inquire from the police to

18 let -- to ask them to allow us to leave the village because that was on

19 the 29th when we went.

20 Q. Well, here in your statement in paragraph 32 mention is made of

21 Sunday, the 28th of March; and in paragraph 28, the portion that I read

22 the first time, you say that they let me return to the village and they

23 said that they would wait for us there. And then paragraph 29:

24 "When I arrived in Drenoc, I told the villagers not to go through

25 Carrabreg because they would separate men from women and children. That

Page 3874

1 was the reason why we passed through the village of Prilep to go to the

2 village of Beleg. It was around 4.00 p.m. when we arrived in Beleg and

3 there we were told about those 18 soldiers."

4 Is that correct?

5 A. This happened on the 27th, when we arrived in Beleg, on the

6 27th of March.

7 Q. But then in paragraph 31 you say:

8 "Nothing happened that night in the village, but we could hear

9 shooting in the surrounding villages."

10 And then in the next paragraph, paragraph 32, you say:

11 "On Sunday, the 28th of March, 1999, around 1.30 to 2.00 the

12 police forces came."

13 A. The police came on the 28th to the village to check, to search

14 the village, and some Qazim Hulaj was killed from the Hulaj family of

15 Berber, and I didn't see him myself but he was killed. He was buried in

16 Beleg. We others managed to escape and to go to the houses where we

17 lived in Beleg.

18 Q. Thank you. Is it correct that your wife and your parents

19 remained in Adem Vishaj's house, as you state in paragraph 56 of your

20 statement and that Sadik Vishaj told you about it?

21 A. Yes, that is correct. That is where they stayed, my wife, my

22 father, mother, and a cousin of mine.

23 Q. Thank you. And were they in Beleg village, in this house of

24 Adem Vishaj's?

25 A. They were at Adem Vishaj's home. There was nowhere they could