Page 6812
1 Friday, 3 July 2009
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.03 a.m.
5 [The witness takes the stand]
6 JUDGE PARKER: Good morning, Mr. Cvetic.
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.
8 JUDGE PARKER: Please sit down.
9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
10 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Djurdjic is continuing his questions. Your
11 affirmation to tell the truth continues to apply.
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] All right.
13 WITNESS: LJUBINKO CVETIC [Resumed]
14 [Witness answered through interpreter]
15 Cross-examination by Mr. Djurdjic: [Continued]
16 Q. Good morning, Mr. Cvetic.
17 A. Good morning.
18 Q. I've discovered how we can prevent ourselves from speaking too
19 quickly and allowing the interpreters to do their work, maybe we should
20 take a deep breath before we start with either question or an answer.
21 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have a document
22 D004-1611.
23 Q. Mr. Cvetic, are you familiar with this dispatch?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. It was sent by the staff to all the SUPs in Kosovo. We can see
Page 6813
1 the contents here, but I would like to know in the given period, so this
2 was on the 11th of November, 1998, here we can see that the activity of
3 the KLA had increased. Do you know in the territory of your SUP, for
4 example, whether they took any positions, whether they retook any
5 positions wherefrom they withdrew during the summer of 1998, so the
6 positions that were then controlled by the authorities of
7 Socialist Republic
8 A. With the completion of anti-terrorist activities at the end of
9 September 1998, the control was regained over the entire territory of
10 Kosovo and Metohija. I'm talking about the control by the police and the
11 army. After the signing of the Holbrooke-Milosevic Agreement and after
12 the arrival of the OSCE Mission to Kosovo and Metohija, one part of the
13 police forces were withdrawn from the territory of Kosovo
14 In that that period from October onwards, that is in November and
15 December, all the positions that were previously controlled by the police
16 station and the Army of Yugoslavia were slowly taken by the
17 Kosovo Liberation Army.
18 Q. Thank you. Did the attacks by KLA to roads, police forces, the
19 army, also initiate various other incidents?
20 A. Yes. Until the end of 1998, they weren't that frequent; but
21 after the beginning of 1999, they became more frequent.
22 Q. Mr. Cvetic, to you know that members of the KLA were also active
23 when wearing civilian clothes?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Do you know during this entire period, 1998 and 1999, that when
Page 6814
1 their forces were crushed, that they would mingle with the civilian
2 population wearing civilian clothes in order to prevent being detained?
3 A. Yes. Some of them wore military uniforms, and on top of them
4 they wore civilian clothes. And the other way around, they would have a
5 military uniform and underneath they would wear civilian clothes.
6 Q. Thank you. Is capturing and arresting terrorist and their
7 prosecution by the police part of a regular police activity?
8 A. Yes, both of the public services and state services, primarily of
9 the state services.
10 Q. Thank you. Were there any criminal reports filed by the SUP
11 Kosovska Mitrovica against terrorists to the relevant courts?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And is this a part of the permanent activities of the SUP?
14 A. Yes. Having received information that somebody participated in
15 terrorist activities, that there were attacks against members of the
16 army, police, Serbian population, or Serbian refugees in the territory of
17 Kosovo and Metohija, or against loyal Albanians; so immediately after we
18 received that information, SUP
19 and start -- initiate procedures against such persons.
20 Q. Could you agree with me that SUP
21 1998 and 1999 carried out its regular police duties?
22 A. Yes. It's regular police duties in line with the law and
23 regulations on the internal organisation.
24 Q. Thank you.
25 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would like to tender this
Page 6815
1 document into evidence.
2 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
3 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit D246, Your Honours.
4 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have the document
5 under 65 ter list 04165. 4156? This is not the right document. Under
6 65 ter list 04165.
7 Q. Mr. Cvetic, are you familiar with this dispatch?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. I have several questions regarding this dispatch. Here we can
10 see that it's been established that the KLA was -- that the
11 Kosovo Verification Mission had certain implications towards the Albanian
12 terrorists, so are you familiar with the activities of the monitoring
13 mission in terms of the fact that they were monitoring and taking
14 pictures of certain facilities in Kosovo that they were not supposed to
15 do, bridges, certain roads, certain facilities, and so on?
16 A. No, I do not know anything specific concerning this. There were
17 some rumours about their inclination, but I really do not know anything
18 specific.
19 Q. All right. Did you have any problem in the territory of your SUP
20 in relation to the members of the Verification Mission?
21 A. Well, first of all, there were two missions in the territory of
22 Kosovo. The OSCE Mission and the diplomatic Verification Mission, so I
23 would once again like to point out that we had excellent cooperation with
24 the diplomatic Verification Mission because we carried out certain
25 activities together very successful.
Page 6816
1 Q. Thank you.
2 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can I tender this document into
3 evidence.
4 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
5 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit D247, Your Honours.
6 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could I please have D004-1935.
7 Q. Mr. Cvetic, this is, again, a dispatch sent from the staff to all
8 the SUPs in Kosovo and Metohija ordering, as we can see, to undertake
9 certain measures pursuant to the law. I would like to know what is it
10 that you did in the area of SUP
11 dispatch?
12 A. Certain measures were undertaken against person who perpetrated
13 certain criminal offences, and approximately 100 criminal reports were
14 filed with SUP
15 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can I please tender this document
16 in evidence.
17 JUDGE PARKER: Yes. It will be marked for identification,
18 Mr. Djurdjic.
19 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit D248 marked for identification,
20 Your Honours.
21 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours. It seems
22 to me that we should have, if fact, a translation of this document, but
23 that's quite okay. We can find it later on.
24 Can I please have the document D004-1827.
25 Q. Mr. Cvetic, this is the dispatch by -- sent by the staff on
Page 6817
1 2nd of April to chiefs of all the SUPs in Kosovo. Could you please read
2 it for yourself in order to familiarise yourself with the content, and
3 then tell me what was it that you did specifically in the territory of
4 SUP
5 A. Yes, indeed. This dispatch was submitted to the chiefs of SUPs,
6 PJP commanders, and we held meetings with members of the Yugoslav Army.
7 We sent up joint check-points that were manned by police and army, and we
8 carried out the tasks as described in the dispatch.
9 Q. Thank you.
10 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could I please tender this
11 document into evidence.
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] And this is why we received these
13 approximately 100 criminal reports that I mentioned earlier.
14 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
15 JUDGE PARKER: It will be marked, Mr. Djurdjic.
16 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit D249 marked for identification,
17 Your Honours.
18 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I apologise, Your Honour.
19 Q. Mr. Cvetic, concerning all the crimes you were informed about,
20 did you undertake all of the measures prescribed by the law in
21 Kosovska Mitrovica SUP
22 A. We took measures or acted upon all information we received.
23 Q. In the second half of 1998 and in 1999, is it true that for the
24 most part Albanians stopped reporting crime and that to a great extent
25 this made the work of the SUPs in Kosovo-Metohija that much harder in
Page 6818
1 terms of detecting and apprehending the perpetrators?
2 A. When I arrived in Kosovo-Metohija in late 1996 pursuant to an
3 order in early 1997, it is unknown to me that they ever reported to the
4 SUP
5 Q. What about 1998 and 1999?
6 A. It did not change throughout the time I was there. And even if
7 there were reports, these were sporadic or individual cases because I
8 simply cannot recall any such particular events and I cannot provide you
9 with any examples.
10 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could I please have
11 Defence Exhibit 004-1829.
12 Q. Mr. Cvetic, this is an Official Note drafted at the MUP staff on
13 the 5th of April. I am not sure whether you are familiar with it and
14 whether the information contained therein was ever conveyed to you?
15 A. Yes. I can tell you specifically what information I received and
16 by what means and what way. On the 5th of April, in the afternoon, I
17 received a phone call from General Lukic who was in charge of the staff.
18 On that occasion, he told me the following: Immediately prevent the
19 departure of civilians outside their places of residence. That was
20 number one. Number two, those already on the move should be returned to
21 their residence. Thirdly, secure an appropriate number of buses for that
22 purpose and return all civilians along the roads to their homes.
23 Fourthly, all civilians should be guaranteed safety in the location where
24 they live and in their movements about. Fifthly, all those attacking
25 civilians should be punished harshly. Acquaint all PJP commanders with
Page 6819
1 this order as well as all military commanders. Fighting terrorism
2 remains our priority task. This order should not be discussed with other
3 persons.
4 In brief, this is what was conveyed to me on the 5th of April
5 over the phone. That was in the afternoon. What did I do as the chief
6 of the Secretariat? At 6.00 p.m.
7 commanders, as well as all military commanders in that area. But in the
8 area of the Kosovska Mitrovica SUP, there was only the deputy commander
9 of the 125th Motorised Brigade. As well as the commander of the military
10 territorial detachment or organ.
11 They were then asked to acquaint their respective commanders with
12 the contents of the order. The commander of the 35th and
13 75th PJP Detachments were also acquainted with the contents of this
14 order.
15 Q. Thank you, Mr. Cvetic.
16 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have this document
17 MFI
18 JUDGE PARKER: It will be marked.
19 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit D250 marked for identification,
20 Your Honours.
21 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have document
22 D004-1677 next.
23 Q. Mr. Cvetic, we are about to see a dispatch of the 16th of March
24 by the chief of the public security sector sent to all SUPs and the staff
25 as well as all the addressees. Could you please have a look at it to
Page 6820
1 acquaint yourself with the document. Do you remember this dispatch?
2 A. I do. It was discussed at a meeting in the staff when the
3 minister said that Serbs should not believe certain misinformation and
4 propaganda, and in essence, that they should not leave Kosovo since some
5 of them had apartments in other parts of the Republic of Serbia
6 simply wanted to change their places of residence. Some did so in order
7 to avoid certain of their obligations in terms of tax, some did so for
8 personal reasons, whereas others had some reasons of their own.
9 And, sorry, let me just add something. The Secretariats were
10 prohibited from allowing these people to change their place of residence.
11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I seek to tender this document,
12 Your Honours.
13 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
14 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit D251, Your Honours.
15 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you. Could we please have
16 D004-1819.
17 Q. Mr. Cvetic, have a look at the stamp in the English version
18 because there we can see the date, whereas in the Serbian we can hardly
19 make it out.
20 A. Yes, the 22nd of March.
21 Q. Mr. Cvetic, was this dispatch sent to all SUPs in the territory
22 of the Republic of Serbia
23 A. Yes. It has to do with the dispatch number 312 of the
24 18th of February, which was created pursuant to the conclusions following
25 a meeting at the staff held on the 17th of February. Everything that the
Page 6821
1 minister said on that occasion was translated into the tasks contained in
2 Dispatch 312, and this dispatch is a follow-up.
3 Q. Thank you. Is this a period of immediate threat of war during
4 which NATO attacks were expected?
5 A. Yes, such a possibility was seriously contemplated.
6 Q. And the state was undertaking different measures to defend itself
7 against the aggression?
8 A. Yes. And in keeping with the plans drafted at the federal level,
9 we were supposed to undertake certain measures and procedures to defend
10 the sovereignty and territorial integrity as well as independence of the
11 constitutional order and state.
12 Q. Thank you. Were there any differences between the SUPs in Kosovo
13 and others in terms of implementing this order?
14 A. There was no difference. All Secretariats had to implement the
15 tasks of Dispatch 312. Not only the Secretariats of the Interior, but
16 also the centres of the public security sector and their organisational
17 units by which I mean their departments since they all received the same
18 dispatch.
19 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Line 16, page 10, should read the
20 "state" security sector. We can also have the witness repeat.
21 Q. Mr. Cvetic, the dispatch you mentioned, Dispatch 312, who was it
22 sent to?
23 A. To the sector -- to the public security sector and all
24 administrations within that sector as well as to the organisational units
25 within the sector of public security. And to the sector of state
Page 6822
1 security as well as its organisational units within their respective
2 services. Those organisational units within the state security service
3 were the centres of the sector. Their subordinate organisational units
4 were the departments of the public -- state security sector.
5 Q. It was sent to them for information?
6 A. Yes, and also to undertake certain measures. So for information
7 and to undertake those measures which fall within their remit.
8 Q. Thank you.
9 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I seek to tender this document.
10 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
11 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit D252, Your Honours.
12 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have D004-1685
13 next.
14 Q. Mr. Cvetic, we'll see another dispatch of the 27th of March by
15 the head of sector sent to all SUPs, to the staff, to border police
16 stations.
17 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] The next page, please.
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I apologise, but I'm unable to read
19 the contents on the monitor.
20 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please zoom in in the
21 B/C/S.
22 Q. Do you recall this dispatch?
23 A. I do.
24 Q. First of all, it was sent to all the SUPs in the territory
25 Serbia
Page 6823
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Did you do anything specifically following this dispatch?
3 A. The rumour had it at the time that once the OSCE Mission withdrew
4 from Kosovo that they left behind certain locators used for guiding NATO
5 aeroplanes. In this dispatch, it is stated that such locators are also
6 dropped from aeroplanes in certain areas as to use them for NATO
7 aeroplane guidance. In the territory of our SUP, I had no knowledge of
8 such devices in the territory. In certain parts of the territory of
9 Kosovo, there may have been some though.
10 Q. Thank you.
11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have this document
12 marked for identification pending translation.
13 JUDGE PARKER: It will be marked. We now have a translation on
14 the screen.
15 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] You do? Excellent. Then I seek
16 to tender it. I no longer saw the translation.
17 JUDGE PARKER: It will be an exhibit now with that number.
18 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit D253, Your Honours.
19 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. Could we
20 please have document 5316 on the 65 ter list.
21 Q. Mr. Cvetic, this is another dispatch of the head of the public
22 security sector of the 12th of April, 1999, sent to all chiefs of SUPs.
23 Could you please have a look at it.
24 A. Could I please have a hard copy since I'm unable to read anything
25 on the screen?
Page 6824
1 Q. I underlined certain interesting portions of the document. Do
2 you want me to read it out for you? Perhaps I can jog your memory. That
3 is the 12th of April, 1999
4 chiefs of administrations:
5 In the conditions of the state of war and daily NATO bombardment
6 that our country has been exposed to, it is necessary to undertake the
7 following measures: 1, in cooperation with the town and municipality
8 civilian protection staffs, organise members of hunting and marksmen
9 scouting, mountaineering, and other organisations; to monitor, inform and
10 search the terrain in order to find bombing markers. Number 2, with
11 district chiefs, examine the problem of supply and demand of legal
12 entities, natural persons for oil and its derivatives seize artificial
13 fertilizers, et cetera. Vigorously prevent all forms of speculative
14 behaviour. Maintain contact with permanent judicial and other government
15 organs.
16 Do you recall this Mr. Cvetic?
17 A. No, I don't remember this dispatch. Concerning this cooperation,
18 it was in place in terms of cooperation with civilian protection and the
19 monitoring and alarming service. In keeping with defence plans, both
20 services in the state of war had their tasks. However, I do not remember
21 this specific dispatch.
22 Q. Thank you.
23 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could I please have D004-2899.
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It may have been forwarded to my
25 deputy or the chief of the OKP or the chief of police, but I really
Page 6825
1 cannot remember it at this point in time.
2 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] There's no problem with that,
3 although I think your memory is excellent. D004-2899, please.
4 Q. This is a telegram of the public security sector head after you
5 left Mitrovica. I just want you to have a look at the format and his
6 signature.
7 A. If I can just see the signature, please. Yes, this is the
8 signature of the assistant minister chief of the public security sector
9 and this was the usual form of dispatch.
10 Q. Thank you.
11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could I please tender this
12 document into evidence.
13 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
14 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit D254, Your Honours.
15 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we kindly see the document
16 004-1692.
17 Q. Mr. Cvetic, this is a telegram sent by the head of crime police
18 administration to all the SUPs in the territory of Serbia
19 26th of March, 1999, so I wonder whether you recall receiving this
20 telegram?
21 A. Could you please zoom in. Yes, I did receive this dispatch. I'm
22 familiar with it, and the department for the suppression of crime in the
23 SUP
24 Q. Thank you.
25 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we kindly tender this document
Page 6826
1 into evidence.
2 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
3 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit D255, Your Honours.
4 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could I have a document under
5 65 ter 04023.
6 Q. Mr. Cvetic, this is yet another document of the crime police
7 administration dated April the 6th, sent to chiefs of all the SUPs in
8 Kosovo and Metohija. Could you please take a look at it and tell us
9 whether it corresponds to the form that you can recognise and what was it
10 that you did pursuant to this particular document?
11 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Djurdjic, you suggested this was sent. It
12 appears to be notes of a briefing session.
13 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] It seems that the number, I do
14 not -- is not in line, so I asked for a document under 65 ter list 04023
15 and this is not the document I was looking for. Possibly it was my
16 mistake so let us proceed in order not to waste any time.
17 Madam O'Leary, I'm sure we'll find the right document later on.
18 So can I please have the document D004-1694. Could we kindly see
19 the second page, please.
20 Q. Mr. Cvetic, this is a telegram sent by the crime police
21 administration to the MUP staff and SUPs in Kosovo and Metohija on
22 11th of April, 1999. Did you receive this dispatch? Is the form the one
23 corresponding to your recollection, and what was it that you did pursuant
24 to this dispatch?
25 A. Yes. The form is all right, but it wasn't only sent to the MUP
Page 6827
1 staff and the Secretariats in Kosovo and Metohija, but also the
2 Secretariats in the region bordering with Kosovo and Metohija. Why to
3 them? Well, because these Secretariats had certain check-points where
4 they controlled the goods entering and exiting the territory of Kosevo
5 and Metohija. They were registering these goods in order to try and
6 prevent any smuggling, so this is what this dispatch was all about.
7 Q. Thank you.
8 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would like to tender this
9 document into evidence.
10 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
11 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit D256, Your Honours.
12 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you. So the document I was
13 actually looking for under 65 ter list was the document 42023. Actually,
14 the numbers were replaced in order but this is the same document, the
15 document of the crime police administration from Belgrade dated
16 6th of April. So 65 ter 4203, whereas I put the wrong number on the
17 list, I put on the list the number 4023 and instead it should have been
18 4203. So I would kindly ask Mr. Stamp to tell me whether he agrees that
19 I can use this document.
20 MR. STAMP: No objections to that.
21 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you, Mr. Stamp.
22 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Stamp. I hope it
23 is all right with Your Honours as well for me to use this document.
24 Thank you, Your Honours.
25 Q. Mr. Cvetic, so this is the document on 65 ter list 04203.
Page 6828
1 Mr. Cvetic, do you recognise the format of this document? Once
2 again, it was sent, as I can see, to the SUPs in the entire territory of
3 Serbia. If you received it, what was it that you did following the
4 reception of this document?
5 A. Yes, this is the format of the dispatch that was used, and with
6 this dispatch the Secretariats of the Interior were informed that the
7 government of the Republic of Serbia adopted a decree amending certain
8 parts of The Criminal Code and that this decree was published in the
9 Official Gazette. Here we can see the number of the Official Gazette.
10 And that this came into effect on April the 5th.
11 What was the goal of this dispatch? It was to underline the
12 application of the Criminal Procedures Act so the Criminal Procedures Act
13 that was in effect, so to call, peacetime Criminal Procedures Act; and if
14 there was a reason then Criminal Procedures Act that was to be applied in
15 times of war was to be used.
16 Q. Thank you.
17 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would like to tender this
18 document into evidence.
19 JUDGE PARKER: This too will be received.
20 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit 257, Your Honours.
21 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would kindly ask the document
22 D004-1763.
23 Q. Mr. Cvetic, this is a document sent by the chief --
24 A. Slobodan Spasic, yes, I know him in person.
25 Q. It was sent on the 22nd of March, have you received this or did
Page 6829
1 you receive this and it is a recognisable format?
2 A. Yes, it is recognisable. I am aware of this dispatch, and the
3 territorial fire prevention unit in the territory of Kosovska Mitrovica
4 acted upon this particular order or actually it was our fire prevention
5 section which also included a fire prevention police unit.
6 Q. Thank you.
7 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we tender this document into
8 evidence.
9 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
10 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit D258, Your Honours.
11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we please see D004-1699.
12 Q. Mr. Cvetic, this is a dispatch of the public security sector
13 dated 9th of April, 1999, sent to all the SUPs in the territory of Serbia
14 sent by Mr. Stojan Misic, assistant minister. So I would like to know
15 whether you can recognise this form, whether you received this dispatch,
16 whether you are familiar with its contents?
17 A. Yes, this form is quite all right. It wasn't only sent to chief
18 of Secretariats, but also to border police stations, that is, the
19 commanders of the border police stations; and the person in charge of the
20 bored police station at the level of the ministry was Mr. Stojan Misic.
21 And, yes, we were informed again that the government of
22 Yugoslavia adopted a decree whereby any travelling abroad was banned for
23 military conscripts, and we were all obliged to act in accordance with
24 this decree, and this is something that is very logical for the state of
25 war situation.
Page 6830
1 Q. Thank you.
2 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would like to tender this
3 document into evidence.
4 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
5 THE REGISTRAR: It will become Exhibit D259, Your Honours.
6 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would like the document
7 D004-1711. And if we can immediately see the second page, please.
8 Q. Mr. Cvetic, this is a dispatch, an instruction issued by the
9 Federal Customs Administration. Can you recall this dispatch that was
10 sent by the border police administration?
11 A. Yes. It was sent to the Secretariat just for information, and it
12 was also sent to the border police stations in order for them to
13 undertake certain measures.
14 Q. This format is the one you can recall?
15 A. Yes.
16 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we please tender this document
17 into evidence.
18 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
19 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit D260, Your Honours.
20 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would like to see the document
21 under 65 ter list 04285.
22 Q. Mr. Cvetic, this is a dispatch sent by the assistant minister
23 General Stojan Misic on April 19th, 1999, to all the SUPs in the
24 territory of Serbia
25 recognise the form of the document, and also given the date, whether you
Page 6831
1 are familiar with it?
2 A. The form is all right, but anything that received -- that was
3 received by the SUP
4 interest anymore for the reasons that you are aware of.
5 Q. Thank you.
6 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can I please tender this document
7 into evidence.
8 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
9 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit D261, Your Honours.
10 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could I see a document under
11 65 ter list 04166.
12 Q. Mr. Cvetic, I would just like to know whether you can recognise
13 the form of this document because it is dated April the 21st. It is a
14 dispatch by the assistant minister General Zekovic?
15 A. Yes, I recognise the format.
16 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have page 2 for
17 the Chamber to be able to see what the document is about.
18 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I offer this document into
19 evidence.
20 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
21 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit D262, Your Honours.
22 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would kindly ask for Defence
23 document number 004-1753. Can we please see the second page because I
24 believe you were able to see the first.
25 Q. You are familiar with this, aren't you?
Page 6832
1 A. Yes, I am. This is a signed dispatch, the chief of the police.
2 Q. You forwarded this dispatch?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. With the instructions attached?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Thank you.
7 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I seek to tender this document.
8 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
9 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit D263, Your Honours.
10 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
11 Q. Mr. Cvetic, the document that was just admitted is your dispatch
12 forwarding the dispatch you received from the staff?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Thank you.
15 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have D004-0021
16 next.
17 THE REGISTRAR: Counsel, please repeat the number.
18 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Certainly. D004 -- sorry,
19 04-0021. It is probably my mistake. Let us move on.
20 I would next ask for 004-1833.
21 Q. Mr. Cvetic, this is a plan to prevent any disturbances of public
22 order and law. On the first page it says: Official Secret, Kolubara.
23 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Let's go to the next page.
24 Q. Am I right in saying that this is July 1997?
25 A. Yes.
Page 6833
1 Q. The stamp says -- or rather, the header says that it's the
2 30th of July, 1997?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. What is this document about?
5 A. The Kolubara plans existed prior to my arrival in the area of
6 Kosovo and Metohija. They had been put together during a certain period
7 of time by certain representatives of the army and the police to the
8 extent of my knowledge. The goal of those documents was as follows: If
9 there are disturbances of public order and law on a large scale and if
10 there are any inter-ethnic conflicts, certain measures that need to be
11 undertaken by all organs in Kosovo were supposed to be dealt with. That
12 is in gist the contents.
13 The plan had its textural parts, a number of tables, and sketches
14 or schematics. It was all worked out in detail, who was to do what,
15 when, where, and with whom.
16 Q. Thank you. If I'm not mistaken, and I'll try to remind you, the
17 president of the FRY at the time of adoption of this document was
18 Zoran Lilic. He, as the president of the republic -- or rather, this
19 document was adopted by the Supreme Defence Council at the federal level?
20 A. I don't recall that.
21 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have this document
22 MFI
23 JUDGE PARKER: It will be marked.
24 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit D264 marked for identification,
25 Your Honours.
Page 6834
1 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have
2 65 ter document number 4116. This is page 1. Could we please have page
3 2 displayed. Page 3, please.
4 Q. Mr. Cvetic, this is your document?
5 A. Yes, my document in which I forwarded the document from the
6 ministry to the head of aliens department to acquaint himself with the
7 contents and undertake measures.
8 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I seek to tender this document.
9 JUDGE PARKER: We don't have that document on the screen. We
10 have a document of your client.
11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, the first page is the
12 document signed by the witness and this is an attachment forwarded or
13 rather drafted by my client. The witness simply sent that document to
14 his head of aliens department. Could we please go back to the first
15 page.
16 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
17 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit D265, Your Honours.
18 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have D004-1843.
19 Q. First of all, do you recognise this type of document? Did you
20 see it while you were in the territory?
21 A. Certain plans were drafted but this term, the plan of defence of
22 the city of Vucitrn
23 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please go to the second
24 page. The third page, please. Page 4, please. Page 5, please.
25 Q. There. Under 3, you see?
Page 6835
1 A. Yes, that's what I said at the beginning, the term, the plan of
2 defence of the city. Defence is a very comprehensive terms encompassing
3 many different parts of the defence system, whereas this only concerned
4 one segment, the security segment in a single area exclusively to have
5 any terrorist incursions prevented.
6 Q. Thank you. We'll get to that later, but at the meeting of the
7 staff on the 28th of July, did General Lukic address such plans?
8 A. Yes. When I was being questioned by Mr. Prosecutor, I said that
9 these were defensive plans, or rather, plans of protection of personnel
10 and facilities. And which forces were to be used to provide that
11 security to secure the facilities, people, and roads. So as to establish
12 such a security situation in the territory that could be sustained.
13 Q. Given the period, why was this topical? What was the security
14 situation like?
15 A. As I said yesterday, it was complex. Yesterday I only pointed
16 out one part of that complex situation in the area of Drenica in Srbica
17 to be more precise. I pointed out the example of a single road, but many
18 roads were unsafe to use in the area. In the area of Vucitrn, all
19 mountains at the foot of Mount Cicavica
20 to Pantina, so there is between 10 and 15 villages there, were in danger.
21 Those villages needed protection because the Serb population raised the
22 issue of not taking any measures for their safety. That's why such
23 defence and protection plans were drawn. These were protection plans
24 since they were defensive in nature. They were not offensive plans
25 envisaging any attacks.
Page 6836
1 Q. Thank you. A parallel just comes to mind. It is the obligation
2 of the SUPs to protect certain facilities even in times of peace?
3 A. Yes. This falls within the remit of keeping law and order and
4 the functioning of the system of governance and all organs and
5 organisations in the territory of the individual SUP.
6 Q. Thank you.
7 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have this document
8 marked for identification pending translation.
9 JUDGE PARKER: It will be marked.
10 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit D266 marked for identification,
11 Your Honours.
12 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. Cvetic -- sorry, I would ask
13 for D004-1765.
14 Q. Mr. Cvetic, this is your dispatch. Do you remember it?
15 A. Yes, I do.
16 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I seek to tender this document.
17 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
18 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit D267, Your Honours.
19 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we next have D004-1855.
20 Q. Mr. Cvetic, this is a response of the Zubin Potok police station
21 to your previous dispatch; is that correct?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Thank you.
24 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I seek to tender this document.
25 JUDGE PARKER: Do we have a translation?
Page 6837
1 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] We don't. We don't? Then could
2 we please have it marked for identification. I probably mixed it up with
3 the previous one. Could we please have it MFI'd.
4 JUDGE PARKER: You said -- this is the 30th of August. This is
5 the 30th of June, you said it was a response to a dispatch in August.
6 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour. I misspoke. A
7 minute ago we admitted the dispatch of the witness sent on the
8 30th of June to the departments and police stations. What I'm asking to
9 be MFI
10 the witness, to the Kosovska Mitrovica SUP, concerning the issues
11 referred to.
12 JUDGE PARKER: We are not content. We need to see the previous
13 dispatch, which is Exhibit D267.
14 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, in the heading of the
15 document that you can see right now, the date is 30th of June, and there
16 is a dispatch number there, 269, in the top left corner. If we could
17 just see the previous document on the screen.
18 All right. That is the one. In the top-left corner, the mistake
19 is the following: It is supposed to be 30th of June and we see that
20 there is an error in the translation in the English language. It says
21 30th of August. It's supposed to be June.
22 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. Very well, the response of the
23 30th of June will be marked, because there's no translation.
24 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit D268 marked for identification.
25 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
Page 6838
1 Q. Mr. Cvetic, and only after this, what followed was the document
2 that we already received as an exhibit, and this was your response to the
3 staff dated 1st of July, 1998?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Thank you.
6 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] We can proceed. Can we please
7 have the Defence document 004-1939.
8 Q. This is, once again, a dispatch sent by the staff on
9 July the 10th, 1998
10 do not have the translation. Could you please slowly read this out, this
11 dispatch, if you can see it. Or shall I read it and you can tell me
12 whether you agree with what I read?
13 A. Yes, please, because I can read this with great difficulty on the
14 screen.
15 Q. Okay. So this is the dispatch of the MUP staff number 12A dated
16 10th of July, 1998, and it says PS, Leposavic, Vucitrn, Srbica, Zubin
17 Potok, Zvecan --
18 A. I apologise but now I can see this better. Yes. This is a
19 dispatch that was forwarded, and it was submitted by the ministry staff
20 to the Secretariat in Kosovska Mitrovica, and the Secretariat in
21 Kosovska Mitrovica forwarded it to all the police stations in its
22 territory. So to the police stations Leposavic, Vucitrn, Srbica,
23 Zubin Potok, Zvecan, and also to the police stations in its seat in
24 Kosovska Mitrovica.
25 Q. All right. So you forwarded it on the 10th of July or after the
Page 6839
1 10th of July, 1998?
2 A. Yes, this is what is stated in the heading.
3 Q. Thank you.
4 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we please MFI this document.
5 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
6 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit D269 marked for identification,
7 Your Honours.
8 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would kindly ask the document
9 D005-1858.
10 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
11 Q. [No interpretation]
12 A. [No interpretation]
13 JUDGE PARKER: There was no interpretation of your question
14 then -- or the answer, Mr. Djurdjic.
15 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
16 Q. Witness, the dispatch that we saw a minute ago that was admitted
17 into evidence dated 10th of July, 1998, was sent by the MUP staff in
18 Pristina to you and you forwarded it on to your subordinate units; is
19 that correct?
20 A. Yes. It was sent by the MUP staff to the Secretariats or
21 actually to the Secretariat in Kosovska Mitrovica, and the Secretariat in
22 Kosovska Mitrovica forwarded it to all the police stations in its
23 territory and also to the police station in its seat, that is in
24 Mitrovica.
25 Q. Thank you.
Page 6840
1 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we now see the document
2 D004-1858.
3 Q. Mr. Cvetic, are you familiar when it comes to the reserve police
4 squads that this was what a plan for a reserve police squad looked like,
5 this is one I found, this is for the reserve police squad in Zubce.
6 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we kindly see the second page.
7 Can we see the third page.
8 Q. Mr. Cvetic, is this a defence plan? Is that the point of this
9 document?
10 A. Yes. This is a plan of engagement of the reserve police squad in
11 case that there was an attack against an inhabited area. This particular
12 plan was developed by the police station Zubin Potok since the village of
13 Zubce belongs to the municipality of Zubin Potok.
14 Q. Thank you. Here we can see that in the village the population of
15 the village is 542 and the plan envisages 22 members of the reserve
16 police squad to be issued infantry weapons.
17 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please go back to the
18 second page of the document.
19 Q. You can see down there the plan of personnel and materiel
20 establishment?
21 A. Yes.
22 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we please have this document
23 MFI
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Can I just add, in order to a have
25 a complete answer, for the defence of a village apart from the engagement
Page 6841
1 of this police reserve squad with 22 members, there were also other
2 members which, according to the wartime establishment, were put into
3 other structures of defence. So the number would have been higher if
4 there was an attack, or actually, if certain measures were to be
5 undertaken to defend the village in peacetime.
6 In wartime, however, the members of the reserve police squad
7 would go to their respective positions, to their respective units,
8 according to the war plan establishment.
9 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you for this supplement.
10 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received, marked.
11 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit D270 marked for identification,
12 Your Honours.
13 JUDGE PARKER: It appears a convenient time, Mr. Djurdjic.
14 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Yes, it is time. Thank you,
15 Your Honour.
16 JUDGE PARKER: We will break and resume at 11.00.
17 [The witness stands down]
18 --- Recess taken at 10.32 a.m.
19 --- On resuming at 11.03 a.m.
20 [The witness takes the stand]
21 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.
22 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. Can we
23 please see the document D004-1868.
24 Q. Mr. Cvetic, do you recall documents of this type?
25 A. Yes, of course.
Page 6842
1 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we please see the second page.
2 Can we please see the third page. And the fourth page.
3 Q. Mr. Cvetic, could you please comment on this document. This is
4 the training plan?
5 A. Yes. Every year, a plan of training and development was
6 elaborated. This was an obligation of all the Secretariats in the
7 territory of Serbia
8 and submitted to all the organisational units of the Secretariat; and
9 upon the implemented plan, the report on its implementation was also
10 submitted.
11 Q. This plan was developed for the entire territory of the
12 Republic of Serbia
13 A. Yes.
14 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we please mark this document
15 for identification pending translation.
16 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
17 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit D271 marked for identification,
18 Your Honours.
19 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we please see the document
20 D004-1719.
21 Q. Should we zoom in, Mr. Cvetic?
22 A. Yes.
23 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we please zoom in.
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Can we possibly zoom it just a
25 little bit more and scroll down just a bit.
Page 6843
1 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
2 Q. Mr. Cvetic, do you remember this dispatch of yours?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Am I right to say that the minister adopted a decision on
5 rewarding members of MUP and decided on awards for their participation in
6 anti-terrorist activities?
7 A. Yes. This could only be done by the minister.
8 Q. So this was, in a way, implementation of his decision made by
9 you?
10 A. Yes. Pursuant to a proposal of the Secretariat, at the level of
11 the ministry all the proposals were considered, and these proposals had
12 to be justified in detail as to why certain persons were proposed for
13 certain award or promotion into a higher rank. And the minister and his
14 associates most be probably at the sessions of the collegium decided
15 which particular individuals were to be promoted or awarded.
16 Q. Thank you.
17 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would like to tender this
18 document into evidence.
19 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
20 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit D272, Your Honours.
21 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
22 Q. Mr. Cvetic, now that we are discussing this topic, the
23 extraordinary promotion into a higher rank pursuant to the law, this was
24 a decision of the minister; is that correct?
25 A. Yes. There was a possibility to have this extraordinary
Page 6844
1 procedure for promotion, and this was pursuant to the Law on the Ranks
2 which was adopted in keeping with the Law on the Interior.
3 Q. Thank you. Can you remember that the minister decided also to
4 award financial awards to certain members of the police, I believe it was
5 around September?
6 A. Yes, they were awards in form of money, but also there were
7 awards in form of pistols, for example, and things like that.
8 Q. Thank you.
9 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I seek to tender this into
10 evidence.
11 JUDGE PARKER: It's been received.
12 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I apologise, Your Honour. Then
13 please D004-1721.
14 Q. Mr. Cvetic, now, we will see a report of the police station
15 Zubin Potok in relation to your previous dispatch. So could you please
16 confirm that this is in fact what happened?
17 A. Yes. This is a response of the commander of the police station
18 Zubin Potok sent to the Secretariat in Kosovska Mitrovica, but to the
19 police department, and this is correct.
20 Q. Thank you.
21 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I seek to tender this document
22 into evidence.
23 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
24 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit D273, Your Honours.
25 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we see the document D004-1811.
Page 6845
1 Can we see the second page of this document in B/C/S. In the English
2 language we can already see the second page.
3 Q. Mr. Cvetic, this is a daily report dated January the 14th sent by
4 SUP
5 staff. And it was sent by you; is that correct?
6 A. Yes, yes.
7 Q. The foundation for this kind of the report, was it the act issued
8 by the staff on the 21st of October, 1998, which we already saw in this
9 courtroom?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Under item 2 here, we can see regular patrol duties that were
12 carried out on that day?
13 A. Yes, on certain roads.
14 Q. Can we just explain this. While they were doing this, the
15 employees of the SUP
16 they carry out these tasks as part of their regular police duties?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Then we have the part of the report referring to the events which
19 took place and then what was planned in terms of the regular police
20 duties performance?
21 A. Yes.
22 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have this document
23 admitted into evidence.
24 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
25 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit D274, Your Honours.
Page 6846
1 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we next have D004-1806 next.
2 1806.
3 Q. Mr. Cvetic, we are about to see daily information and you as the
4 chief of the Mitrovica SUP
5 the MUP staff in Pristina dated the 15th of January, 1999?
6 A. Yes. This has to do with the events of the 14th of January.
7 Q. This was done pursuant to the instruction on passing information.
8 That was the basis of this?
9 A. Yes.
10 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I seek to tender this document.
11 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
12 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit D275, Your Honours.
13 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have D004-1894
14 next.
15 Q. Mr. Cvetic, you are about to see a numerical overview that was
16 sent on the 15th to the operation centre in Belgrade and to Pristina
17 referring to the 14th of January, 1999; is that so?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Thank you.
20 A. Just to add, it was sent by the shift leaders of duty operations
21 offices to the operation centre in Belgrade and to the MUP staff in
22 Pristina. As I have said already, all that information was sent to the
23 operations service registered in the daily log; and based on that,
24 information sheets are then compiled and forwarded.
25 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I seek to tender this document.
Page 6847
1 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
2 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit D276, Your Honours.
3 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have D004-1800
4 next.
5 Q. Mr. Cvetic, this is another report that you sent to the
6 ministerial staff dated the 15th of January, 1999. The basis is the
7 same, isn't it?
8 A. Yes. The previous one had do with the 14th, and this one has do
9 with the 15th of January.
10 Q. Thank you.
11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I offer this document into
12 evidence.
13 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
14 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit D277, Your Honours.
15 MR. STAMP: Did counsel say that this document was sent to the
16 ministry staff, the ministerial staff? I'm not sure if that is what is
17 represented in the document. Maybe I didn't hear correctly.
18 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] It says to the staff of the
19 ministry.
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] If I may, I can tell you that this
21 type of reporting had to do exclusively with the staff pursuant to the
22 dispatch forwarded to all the Secretariats in the area of
23 Kosovo and Metohija by the staff. This type of reporting did not have
24 anything to do with the ministry because the ministry never asked for
25 such information from the Secretariats. It was asked for by the staff in
Page 6848
1 Pristina pursuant to its dispatch.
2 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you. Could we next have
3 D004-1795.
4 Q. This is another daily report sent by the police squad of the
5 SUP
6 on the 16th of January, 1999
7 15th of January, 1999; is that so, Witness?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Thank you. I seek to tender this document.
10 A. But this is a different type of reporting.
11 Q. We know that. We said that the first time around that the other
12 type of reporting was pursuant to instructions and that now you say this
13 is a different type.
14 A. The previous one was following the staff's request and its
15 dispatch, and this is following the instruction on passing on
16 information.
17 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I move to have this document
18 admitted.
19 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
20 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit D278, Your Honours.
21 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have D004-1793.
22 Q. Witness, we will have the numerical overview for that day
23 concerning the events and information sent to the operation centre in
24 Belgrade
25 Kosovska Mitrovica?
Page 6849
1 A. Yes. And I said that such matters would be forwarded by the
2 shift leader and the duty office.
3 Q. Thank you.
4 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I seek to tender this document.
5 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
6 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit D279, Your Honours.
7 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have D004-1788.
8 Q. Witness, this is a report for the 16th of January, 1999, which
9 you sent to the staff of the ministry in Pristina; is that correct?
10 A. Yes.
11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I move to have this document
12 admitted into evidence.
13 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
14 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit D280, Your Honours.
15 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you. Could we please have
16 D004-1782.
17 Q. This is a daily report sent by the police squad to the operation
18 centre and the staff of the ministry. The date is the 17th of January
19 referring to the events of the 16th of January, 1999; am I correct?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. I seek to tender this document.
22 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Djurdjic, you do not appear to be drawing
23 attention to any particular event. We have had evidence of a requirement
24 for daily reporting by each SUP
25 is now the fourth of those on consecutive days that you are simply
Page 6850
1 tendering. What is the purpose of this continued tendering of this type
2 of report?
3 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, this is the last
4 day [as interpreted] I wanted to tender. The purpose was to show that
5 there were differences in the way of reporting to the MUP staff and the
6 operation centre in Belgrade
7 evident when looking at these reports. One can conclude what the
8 difference in terms of reporting was.
9 JUDGE PARKER: And what's that going to do for us?
10 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] The use is in that you can see
11 that in the regular reports it is only reported on daily events, and the
12 staff is reported to concerning every-day activities of the previous day
13 and as well as the activities of the next day. This is not something
14 that the MUP was informed about in Belgrade. From this, derive the
15 authorities of the staff. In this part in keeping with the MUP staff
16 dispatch there was a deviation from the instructions on the passing on of
17 information.
18 [Trial Chamber confers]
19 JUDGE PARKER: We are not inclined to receive this document,
20 Mr. Djurdjic. If there is any relevance that's going to be demonstrated,
21 it can be from the documents we already have.
22 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I agree, Your Honour.
23 Could we please have D004 -- actually, no, in cooperation with
24 the Prosecutor, since they have shown great understanding concerning the
25 staff of the ministry, was informed about events and since a number of
Page 6851
1 documents concerning that topic have already been admitted, the Defence
2 proposed to the Prosecution with which the Prosecution agreed, that the
3 daily reports of the MUP staff in Pristina that were sent to Belgrade
4 to the SUPs in Kosovo be admitted pursuant to the list we proposed to the
5 Bench so as not to have to go through all of them day by day.
6 JUDGE PARKER: Do you have that list?
7 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] We do. I believe it was sent to
8 the Bench. And the Prosecution is also in agreement as they confirmed in
9 the e-mail they sent.
10 JUDGE PARKER: The Chamber does not have a list. If there is a
11 list and you say that it is of a number of reports and that they are
12 being tendered by consent, is that the proposal? They will be received
13 and the Court Officer, when she receives the list, in due course will
14 give appropriate exhibit numbers.
15 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. Could we
16 please have D004-1773.
17 Q. Mr. Cvetic, we'll see two documents which should illustrate how a
18 criminal procedure or proceedings were initiated. I have one of those
19 documents pertaining to your SUP
20 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] The next page, please.
21 Q. Do you recall the layout of such disciplinary reports that were
22 sent?
23 A. Yes. The layout is prescribed by the instruction on disciplinary
24 responsibility of the employees of the MUP.
25 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we have this document MFI
Page 6852
1 please.
2 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
3 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit D281, Your Honours, marked for
4 identification.
5 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have D004-1768
6 next. Can we have the next page, please.
7 Q. Do you recall this document?
8 A. I do.
9 Q. Did you follow the same procedure?
10 A. As I have already said, in keeping with the instructions and
11 decree on disciplinary responsibility of the employees of the MUP, the
12 immediate superior submits a report on the violation of work obligation
13 against an employee of his or hers; and based on that report, the chief
14 of the Secretariat issues a request to initiate disciplinary proceedings
15 to the disciplinary prosecutor. The same practice was followed across
16 all of the 33 Secretariats in Serbia
17 Law on Internal Affairs, and in particular by the decree on disciplinary
18 responsibility of the employees of the ministry.
19 Q. Thank you.
20 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I move to have this document
21 admitted.
22 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
23 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit D282, Your Honours.
24 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you. Can we have
25 Exhibit P356.
Page 6853
1 Q. Mr. Cvetic, this is a dispatch of the 18th of February, 1999, of
2 the chief of the public security sector number 312. Who is the last
3 addressee?
4 A. The state security sector at headquarters to the chief for
5 information.
6 Q. Thank you. This means that by this dispatch, the chief was being
7 informed on the measures undertaken by the public security sector in
8 terms of preparations should there come an attack, a NATO attack on the
9 territory of the FRY?
10 A. Yes. These were the measures put forth by the minister at the
11 meeting of the MUP staff in Pristina on the 17th of February, 1999. It
12 was also attended by the chief of the state security sector.
13 Q. Thank you. Witness, this dispatch was sent to all of the SUPs in
14 the territory of Serbia
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Its basis is Article 9 on the Rules of the Internal Affairs and
17 the Law on Defence, the federal law?
18 A. Yes, one can put it that way, but it is also on the basis of an
19 assessment of the security situation. Such a dispatch could be sent in
20 such a case as well to point out specific security elements and measures
21 needed to overcome such problems and to prevent any potential
22 consequences should there be an aggression.
23 Q. Thank you.
24 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Next I'd like to have
25 Exhibit P1061.
Page 6854
1 JUDGE PARKER: Are you meaning to tender this one?
2 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, it was already
3 admitted.
4 JUDGE PARKER: The number, please? Thank you, I have it.
5 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I think you will be
6 pleased to hear that we have come to the documents which have already
7 been admitted, and the witness wanted to say something about it after
8 Mr. Stamp's examination-in-chief.
9 Q. Witness, now you will see a document that you were shown
10 previously by Mr. Stamp. This is the plan of the operations of the radio
11 communications.
12 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we kindly see the first page
13 of this document.
14 Q. Witness, do you remember that you were shown this document by
15 Mr. Stamp?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. You said you recognise this OSA and IBAR code and for the rest
18 you said you didn't know who they were?
19 A. No, I can't remember, but I know about IBAR and OSA.
20 Q. And when you were shown the second page of the document, then you
21 could see the call-sign for the Joint Command; is that correct?
22 A. Yes. While I was in Kosovo, I didn't hear about this call-sign.
23 I didn't even know that this was the call-sign for the Joint Command.
24 Q. Thank you. Witness, am I right to say that it was on the
25 minister to decide who will be sent to Kosovo and Metohija and when?
Page 6855
1 A. This was exclusively the right of the minister to decide on all
2 the duties pertaining to the work of the ministry and pertaining to human
3 resources issues. But such decisions were also made at the sessions of
4 the collegium, and we saw previously the decision on the establishment of
5 the collegium.
6 Q. Thank you. Am I right to say that the minister decided himself
7 who will accompany him or go to various meetings with him?
8 A. Yes.
9 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we please see the Exhibit
10 number -- later on, I cannot see the number, in order not to waste any
11 time. So on the 65 ter list, 03123. But this is already an exhibit.
12 This is the -- these are the minutes of the staff dated
13 28th of July, 1998. And I wanted to ask two things. Possibly if we
14 could see page 4 in --
15 THE REGISTRAR: If counsel could clarify the number.
16 JUDGE PARKER: It would help us if you gave the exhibit number of
17 the documents that are already tendered, Mr. Djurdjic.
18 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you. Yes, I will find the
19 exhibit number now. This was the number under 65 ter list, so this is
20 P688.
21 Q. Since you know what happened at the meeting on the 28th of July,
22 there is no need to show this to you again. But bearing in mind that
23 meeting and the statements by Minister Stojiljkovic, could you tell us
24 what was your view of the way in which he treated and the way in which he
25 addressed other members present at the meeting?
Page 6856
1 A. Well, he was very correct.
2 Q. So did he provide information and instructions in all different
3 spheres of activities?
4 A. Yes, and at the same time he was the vice-president of the
5 government, and he also came to the territory of Kosovo
6 that capacity.
7 Q. Thank you. Now, I would like to remind you, if I may, on page 4
8 in B/C/S and page 6 in English. You see here -- no, you still cannot.
9 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] So on page 6 in B/C/S, it was my
10 error, I apologise. And in English this is on page 6 as well.
11 Q. Can you see here -- okay, excellent. Major Radovan Vucurevic and
12 his entire statement given at that meeting on the 28th. Can you refresh
13 your memory concerning this?
14 A. I honestly cannot remember that person.
15 Q. Yes, but according to these minutes, he referred this information
16 to the minister. He actually stated this?
17 A. Yes, this is what follows from these minutes.
18 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we move to page 8, please.
19 Actually, there is no need. Let us move on not to waste any time.
20 Can we please see the document P689. Can we please see the first
21 page, please. Or actually, page 3.
22 Q. Here we can see at the end that you participated in the
23 discussion yourself, Mr. Cvetic. You already explained to us things
24 concerning the KLA and so on. Can we move to the following page, please.
25 The minutes say the following: He also stated that he is not receiving
Page 6857
1 appropriate information of the state security sector concerning the
2 activities of Siptar terrorists.
3 Was this rightly recorded in the minutes that this is what you
4 said?
5 A. Yes, we received some information, but these were not timely
6 information, nor were they complete.
7 Q. Thank you.
8 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we now see page 4.
9 Q. Witness, at this meeting we will see on page 3 what was stated by
10 General-Major Sreten Lukic, and then on page 4 we can see that if we have
11 a problem with the exchange of information between state security sector
12 and public security sector please inform me so that we can overcome that
13 problem?
14 A. Well, most probably he did say this.
15 Q. Thank you.
16 A. If this was included in the minutes, although I cannot remember
17 that.
18 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we go back to page 3.
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I do not want to be misunderstood
20 here. The information, at least when it comes to SUP Kosovska Mitrovica,
21 did not -- which were coming from the state security sector, were not
22 timely, nor complete. They sent information first of all to the centre
23 of the state security sector, the centre of the state security sector
24 would forward the information to the leader of the state security sector
25 for Kosovo and Metohija, and then it would be forwarded on. So it was up
Page 6858
1 to them to decide which information they would forward and which they
2 wouldn't. So the selection of the information was done by them.
3 Q. Thank you. Now, on page 3, could you please comment on
4 following: Can you remember that Colonel Mijatovic was talking about
5 forwarding OSCE Mission and Verification Mission about any movement of
6 the forces two days ahead, and he requested from SUP chiefs it to carry
7 out all the relevant tasks and report about this?
8 A. Yes, and this is what indeed happened.
9 Q. So you reported according to this instruction as well?
10 A. Yes.
11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we see the Exhibit P1043.
12 Q. Mr. Cvetic, these are the minutes of the meeting at the ministry
13 staff on the 21st of December, 1998.
14 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we see the second page,
15 please.
16 Q. Actually, while we were on the first page, we can see that the
17 meeting was attending by the minister; is that correct?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And also General-Colonel Stevanovic; the head of the office as
20 well, Danilo Pantovic; and other persons listed here.
21 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we now see page 2, please.
22 Q. Here you can see this part:
23 "Today General Stevanovic will convey to you my instructions
24 concerning the activities in the newly arisen situation."
25 Can you see this portion?
Page 6859
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Mr. Cvetic, did General Stevanovic convey to you present at the
3 meeting the instructions of the minister?
4 A. Yes, because this is what is recorded in these minutes.
5 Q. It is also stated here that the minister informed you he had to
6 leave before General Stevanovic took over chairing of the meeting?
7 A. I can't remember that the minister left earlier.
8 Q. Can you see that it is written here that the minister with
9 General Lukic, Ilic, and Pantovic, left the meeting at 11.30 in order to
10 attend a meeting in Kosovo Polje?
11 A. If this is recorded here, most probably it happened, but I can't
12 remember them leaving.
13 Q. And we can see that after this you were the first to take the
14 floor.
15 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we please see the
16 Exhibit P764.
17 Q. Mr. Cvetic, now we will see the minutes of the staff meeting on
18 the 4th of April, 1999. So the agenda of these meetings were the
19 previous tasks and achieved results and then forthcoming tasks and other
20 matters; is that correct?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. You attended this meeting, did you not?
23 A. I did.
24 Q. Am I right to say that all chiefs of SUPs took part in the
25 discussion on the first item of the agenda?
Page 6860
1 A. Most of them.
2 Q. And the commanders as well?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Were you invited by the staff leader to this meeting?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. So everybody who attended the meeting received an invitation?
7 A. Yes. Either an invitation in writing or we were invited by
8 phone. Usually we were invited by phone, but for the meeting on the
9 16th of April, we received a dispatch.
10 Q. Thank you. Am I right to say that at this meeting the commanders
11 also reported under the first item of the agenda?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. On this page we can see that, first of all, it was Bosko Petric,
14 then Ljubinko Cvetic, and then another person took part in the
15 discussion?
16 A. Yes, this was in line with the seating arrangement during the
17 meeting.
18 Q. Thank you.
19 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we see page 2, please.
20 Q. We can see here that detachment commanders also took part in the
21 discussion of the 35th, 36th, and 37th Detachment.
22 A. Yes, I can see the discussion of the commander of the 35th, 37th,
23 and 23rd Detachment.
24 Q. Thank you.
25 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we see page 3, please.
Page 6861
1 Q. We have the two commanders of the 21st and 22nd PJP Detachments,
2 and then Zeljko Trajkovic who was an SAJ commander?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. He was in Pristina?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Here it says Miodrag Jankovic, JSO commander?
7 A. I don't know that person.
8 Q. We were told here that this is actually Milorad Ulemek, the JSO
9 commander?
10 A. During 1998 and 1999, I saw Mr. Ulemek in Kosovo. He commanded
11 the JSO unit. Milorad Lukovic Ulemek, aka Legija.
12 Q. Yes, he is addressing the meeting?
13 A. But here it says Milorad Jankovic.
14 Q. It was established that it was a topographical error. It says
15 here units of the VJ is cooperating with them and is well equipped.
16 However, it is comprised of members of the reserve force that cannot be
17 relied upon in the subsequent operations and hence it is suggested that
18 they be replaced. You probably don't recall that?
19 A. I don't remember such issues.
20 Q. Thank you. Item 2 the same page, the following tasks issued by
21 Sreten Lukic.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Thank you.
24 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Let's turn the page now.
25 Q. At page 4 we see that Obrad Stevanovic, assistant minister, took
Page 6862
1 the floor.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Let me ask you this: If Obrad Stevanovic were a PJP commander,
4 would all these persons be reporting rather than he himself reporting as
5 the commander?
6 A. No, these persons reported on the situation in their units and
7 engagement of the units in their areas. This is how the briefing of the
8 commanders of PJP units should be seen.
9 Q. But if he was the commander, I guess his commanders would not
10 brief him at the staff meeting. It would rather be dealt with at a PJP
11 command meeting?
12 A. Well, that's a question of method of that commander's work.
13 Whether he wanted to have a separate meeting with his commanders, which
14 he did - he did have separate meetings with them - but also at the staff
15 meeting, the PJP commanders briefed on the situation in their units and
16 the tasks they were performing in their areas.
17 Q. As assistant minister he can convene a meeting following the
18 minister's order which would include the PJP commanders, but first of
19 all, let me ask you, where was the PJP command in Pristina in 1998?
20 A. The PJP command in Pristina was in the building of the
21 Pristina Secretariat until the building was bombed on the
22 29th of March, 1999.
23 Q. Of the 124th Intervention Brigade?
24 A. No, where the MUP staff command was, and it encompassed all PJP
25 units as its manoeuvre units in the area of Kosovo-Metohija.
Page 6863
1 Q. Thank you.
2 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Let's go back to page 1.
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] So as to avoid any
4 misunderstandings, some people called the MUP staff in Pristina also the
5 PJP command and they also -- some of them also called it PJP
6 headquarters, but the real name of it was the MUP staff in Pristina.
7 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
8 Q. We see here just below the agenda that the meeting was attended
9 by the chiefs of all SUPs, commanders of PJP detachments, the SAJ
10 commander, and the JSO commander of the RDB?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Am I right in saying that only the minister could decide that the
13 JSO be sent to Kosova-Metohija to assist?
14 A. All police engagement is decided on by the minister in both the
15 public and state security sectors. I did not have access to the
16 documents of the state security service; therefore, I don't know whether
17 the chief of that sector was authorised by the minister to use the JSO
18 units.
19 Q. Thank you.
20 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have
21 Exhibit P1039.
22 Q. Mr. Cvetic, for the transcript, could you please tell us the
23 first and last names of the persons for whom you know were commanders of
24 the JSO in 1998 and 1999?
25 A. It was Milorad Lukovic Ulemek, aka Legija.
Page 6864
1 Q. This document was shown to you, Mr. Cvetic, earlier. Did you
2 ever, as the chief of the Kosovska Mitrovica SUP, did you ever draw up a
3 plan for an offensive anti-terrorist operation?
4 A. As the chief of the Secretariat?
5 Q. Yes.
6 A. No.
7 Q. Therefore, the date of the 9th of April, you have no knowledge of
8 that?
9 A. I don't.
10 Q. Thank you. So as not to go through all of the documents - and
11 you have seen them all - can I ask you to tell me whether I'm right about
12 the documents concerning orders.
13 First of all, did you want to add something?
14 A. Yes. I see in the document, Actions or operations in the area of
15 Cicavica. Yes, that was planned on the 9th of April to be conducted in
16 the subsequent two or three days. They probably were, but the
17 Kosovska Mitrovica SUP
18 operations. Those plans were drawn up at the MUP staff following the
19 chain of command of the police and the army, and then it was harmonised
20 at the level of the Joint Command. That plan was forwarded to those who
21 commanded the units in the field, or rather, that order was sent -- that
22 document was sent either as an order or a decision. I explained what
23 each of these contains.
24 Q. Thank you. You were shown some orders here. Am I right in
25 saying that you saw those orders for the first time in the course of the
Page 6865
1 proofing by the Prosecutor?
2 A. Which orders? That depends.
3 Q. The ones that were shown to you, for example, to break up the --
4 THE INTERPRETER: The speakers should not overlap.
5 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
6 Q. [No interpretation]
7 A. [No interpretation]
8 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreters kindly ask that someone warn the
9 speakers.
10 JUDGE PARKER: Because of the speed at which you're speaking and
11 your overlapping, we have not been able to record the last two things.
12 Now, you had a lot to say very quickly, Mr. Djurdjic. Is there any
13 summary of that you want to record?
14 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Yes. In keeping with your order,
15 Your Honour, I'm trying to enable this witness to leave The Hague today.
16 Therefore, I guess I'm being a bit hasty.
17 Q. Let's go a document at a time. The 15th of April document, you
18 did not see that while you were in Mitrovica?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Please tell me whether, at the time, you were familiar with the
21 documents I'm about to show you.
22 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have Exhibit 972.
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I have seen this document.
24 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
25 Q. Who showed it to you?
Page 6866
1 A. I received it as the chief of the Secretariat.
2 Q. Thank you.
3 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Then document 971, please.
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No. I saw this document for the
5 first time during my testimony between the 4th and the
6 9th of December, 2006, before this Tribunal.
7 Q. Thank you.
8 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] P1040. P972. It should be the
9 decision on the break-up of the Siptar terrorist forces in the area of
10 Donja Drenica.
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] As I've already said --
12 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Okay. I apologise. P1040 then.
13 It should be the break-up of Siptar terrorist forces in the area of
14 Bajgora 2.
15 Q. Were you familiar with this order?
16 A. Could I please see the next page of it. I see here that the date
17 is the 4th of May. At that time, I was not in the territory of the
18 Kosovska Mitrovica SUP
19 Q. I think this should be the 15th of April. I think that's what it
20 says.
21 A. I don't see that.
22 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Let us see the first page, please,
23 in the heading. At least my hard copy has that date.
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] On my copy it says the 4th of May.
25 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Very well.
Page 6867
1 Q. You are not familiar with this one?
2 A. Well, I couldn't have been.
3 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could I have P969.
4 Q. While waiting for it, Mr. Cvetic, did it strike you that under
5 item 2 there's always a task or tasks issued to the Pristina Corps. Did
6 you notice that observing these documents?
7 A. No. I have to explain this. The contents of an order and the
8 methodology of its drafting is as follows: Each order has the first item
9 as information on the enemy. Before that, we should have a geographical,
10 topographical data, and additional information in that regard. The
11 seconds item is the tasks of our forces, i.e., the Pristina Corps.
12 Q. If this was the Joint Command, wouldn't it be logical to expect
13 to have here the tasks of both the MUP and the Pristina Corps?
14 A. It's a matter of the Joint Command, whether they wanted to have
15 that separately or whether they wanted to have that under the category of
16 the Pristina Corps tasks.
17 Q. Did you notice in item 4 that the Joint Command always stated
18 that they decided to support the MUP forces?
19 A. Yes, that was standard language.
20 Q. If something was joint, why would then they support it?
21 A. Well, they had to support each other mutually.
22 Q. But why would the Pristina Corps support the MUP?
23 JUDGE PARKER: A, your pace. B, how can this witness tell you
24 why the Joint Command wanted to do certain things? He can tell you why
25 he might have wanted to do certain things, but he is not entirely the
Page 6868
1 Joint Command, is he?
2 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I agree. I was carried away
3 because the witness was explaining the decisions, but I wanted to show
4 him something else. Let's cease this line of questioning.
5 Could we please have D104.
6 Q. We shall see an order for the defeat and destruction of Siptar
7 terrorist forces in the region of Malo Kosovo is that correct,
8 Mr. Cvetic?
9 A. Yes.
10 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we please see the last page of
11 this document.
12 Q. So this was issued by the Joint Command for Kosovo and Metohija,
13 you could see that?
14 A. Yes, yes. This was a regular methodology whereby the tasks of
15 the army and the MUP in the region of the Joint Command were coordinated.
16 Q. Thank you.
17 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can I please have the
18 Exhibit D115. I apologise, D105.
19 Q. Mr. Cvetic, this is the amendment of the decision that we saw a
20 short while ago.
21 A. No, this is the area of Malo Kosovo and previously we spoke about
22 Donja Drenica as far as I can remember.
23 Q. No, no. Do you want us to bring up the last document, if you
24 forgot what it was all about? But please recall this number, the number
25 that you can see here, 455-56/1.
Page 6869
1 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we now please see the
2 document D104.
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
4 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
5 Q. So you can see the number here, so the previous document was a
6 supplement or an amendment of this particular document.
7 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we please now again see D105,
8 and can we please have the last page of that document.
9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] But this is an order, whereas the
10 other one said amendment to the decision.
11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
12 Q. Yes, but you could see according to the questions 455-56 and then
13 dash 56/1 so this was an amendment of this document?
14 A. Well, it depends on the number under which they were recorded,
15 but the right title should be amendment of the order of the item 4 of the
16 order.
17 Q. Well, possibly somebody made a mistake, but you can see now who
18 compiled this amendment to the decision?
19 A. Yes, it says commander Major-General Vladimir Lazarevic.
20 Q. So he amended the decision that was previously signed by the
21 Joint Command?
22 A. Yes, he amended the order that was made by the Joint Command. He
23 actually amended item 4 of that order, and item 4 considers the decision.
24 What he amended here most probably regards the forces of the
25 Pristina Corps, but I couldn't comment on it, really, without seeing this
Page 6870
1 entire amendment.
2 Q. Thank you. Mr. Cvetic, all the decisions and orders that you
3 saw, do all of them refer solely to the anti-terrorist activities against
4 the forces of the KLA?
5 A. No, not against the KLA, but it was simply to destroy and defeat
6 the Siptar terrorist forces.
7 Q. All right. In the year of 1999, did you ever see any order to
8 persecute civilians or to tolerate murders of Albanian population, the
9 burning of their houses?
10 A. There was no such order, but these things did occur.
11 Q. Also in your territory?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. So what did you do about this?
14 A. Well, in our territory we found some 90 bodies. The SUP of
15 Kosovska Mitrovica secured this area, informed an investigative judge and
16 state Prosecutor. They came and made a crime scene investigation,
17 compiled the relevant documentation. They submitted a criminal report
18 against an unknown perpetrator, and SUP undertook relevant measures in
19 order to find this unknown perpetrator.
20 So while I was in the territory of Kosovska Mitrovica there were
21 some 90 incidents. Against perpetrators of thefts or robberies or
22 looting; or particularly against people who took away cars, vehicles and
23 technical appliances, we filed criminal reports to the relevant court in
24 Kosovska Mitrovica. I can't remember exactly how many such criminal
25 reports were filed, but I believe between 25 and 30 for that reason and
Page 6871
1 during that period of time.
2 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Cvetic, for
3 answering my questions. Thank you, Your Honours, with this I have
4 completed my cross-examination.
5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you for your questions.
6 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you, Mr. Djurdjic. Well done.
7 We will now have the second break and that will then allow
8 Mr. Stamp to re-examine at 1.00.
9 [The witness stands down]
10 --- Recess taken at 12.28 p.m.
11 --- On resuming at 1.09 p.m.
12 JUDGE PARKER: I would mention, Mr. Stamp, that unfortunately, I
13 was delayed on another matter. We can sit a little later, if necessary.
14 MR. STAMP: That, I don't think, will be necessary.
15 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
16 [The witness takes the stand]
17 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Mr. Stamp.
18 MR. STAMP: Thank you, Your Honours.
19 Re-examination by Mr. Stamp:
20 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Cvetic.
21 A. Good afternoon.
22 Q. You said just now that:
23 "In our territory we found some 90 bodies."
24 Where did you find these 90 bodies?
25 A. In the territory of the Secretariat of Kosovska Mitrovica which
Page 6872
1 means in the territory of SUP
2 organisational units of the Secretariat. So there were 90 bodies in
3 total until the 16th of April, 1999.
4 Q. I see. These 90 bodies weren't found in one location?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Oh, I see.
7 JUDGE PARKER: Could that be made a little more clear, Mr. Stamp.
8 Are you saying at 90 separate times a body was found, or that
9 altogether 90 bodies were found, sometimes more than one body with
10 another?
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, yes. Sometimes more than one
12 body would be found in one single place, but we did not find all the 90
13 bodies in one place. Sometimes we would find two, three, four, or five
14 in one single location. Sometimes only one.
15 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
16 MR. STAMP: Thank you, Your Honours.
17 Q. Mr. Cvetic, you also said that in the afternoon of the
18 5th of April, you received some -- you received a phone call from
19 Mr. Lukic in which he told you, among other things, to prevent the
20 departure of civilians from their place of residence. Do you know what
21 was occurring on the ground in the territory at that time which required
22 Mr. Lukic to order the PJP commanders or to order you to take these
23 measures?
24 A. At that time, civilians were leaving their places of residence,
25 so they were leaving the places in which they lived. And they were
Page 6873
1 leaving in the direction of Macedonia
2 central territory of Serbia
3 Q. And do you recall if General Lukic followed up these instructions
4 with a written dispatch?
5 A. No, I did not receive any such dispatch. I simply received this
6 order via phone at 4.30 p.m.
7 MR. STAMP: Could we have a look at the document
8 65 ter number 04147. And I should indicate, as I'm reminded, that this
9 is P1048.
10 Q. Can you tell us what this document is, or tell us whether or not
11 this document was sent in furtherance of that oral order you received
12 from General Lukic?
13 A. Yes, it follows from these documents, one could draw such a
14 conclusion from this document.
15 Q. Very well. You told us in respect to another issue that the
16 plans, the plans for combat activity or anti-terrorist actions, were
17 drawn up at the MUP staff following the chain of command, by the police
18 and the army and it that it was harmonised at the level of the
19 Joint Command. I think you also told us earlier that the actual drafting
20 of the plan was done by Pristina Corps staff. And you also said that the
21 plan was forwarded to those who commanded the units in the field.
22 Can you tell us how were these plans transmitted to these units?
23 Let's start with the police units, do you know how the plans were
24 transmitted to the police units in the field?
25 A. Yes.
Page 6874
1 Q. Please tell us.
2 A. The leader of the MUP staff in Pristina would invite to meetings
3 the PJP commanders and they would be handed the plans.
4 Q. And the VJ units in the field, do you know how those were
5 transmitted to them?
6 A. I don't know that. I can only assume. And my assumption is that
7 they were transmitted through the relevant chain of command.
8 Q. I see.
9 MR. STAMP: Thank you very much, Mr. Cvetic.
10 Your Honours, I have nothing further in re-examination, I please
11 you.
12 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you, Mr. Stamp.
13 Questioned by the Court:
14 JUDGE BAIRD: Mr. Cvetic, I refer you to your evidence earlier
15 where you said that I remember that members of the Siptar ethnic
16 community did not carry personal identification documents, I know that
17 they did not carry IDs.
18 Now is it that the Siptar did not carry personal IDs in certain
19 areas or is it that they didn't carry IDs throughout the entire Kosovo?
20 A. No, no. They did have personal identification documents, some of
21 them did not have any. But what I said was that they did -- most of them
22 didn't carry them with them.
23 JUDGE BAIRD: I see. Now, did you see active combat against
24 terrorists in Kosovska Mitrovica at all?
25 A. Yes.
Page 6875
1 JUDGE BAIRD: Thank you very much.
2 JUDGE PARKER: You will be pleased to know, Mr. Cvetic, that that
3 concludes the questioning for you. It's been a long process. The
4 Chamber would like to thank you for once again coming to The Hague and
5 assisting us and for the concentration and attention that you've shown
6 over five days here. You may, of course, now return to your normal
7 activities. We thank you for all that you have done.
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you too, Your Honours.
9 [The witness withdrew]
10 JUDGE PARKER: Is there any matter that needs to be discussed for
11 the evidence next week?
12 MR. STAMP: I'm not sure if we should discuss some of the matters
13 that have been occupying my mind and my time in open session,
14 Your Honours.
15 JUDGE PARKER: Closed session.
16 MR. STAMP: Yes, Your Honour.
17 [Private session]
18 (redacted)
19 (redacted)
20 (redacted)
21 (redacted)
22 (redacted)
23 (redacted)
24 (redacted)
25 (redacted)
Page 6876
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11 Pages 6876-6879 redacted. Private session.
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Page 6880
1 (redacted)
2 (redacted)
3 (redacted)
4 (redacted)
5 (redacted)
6 (redacted)
7 (redacted)
8 (redacted)
9 (redacted)
10 (redacted)
11 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.32 p.m.
12 to be reconvened on Monday, the 6th day of July,
13 2009, at 2.15 p.m.
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25