Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 7113

 1                           Thursday, 9 July 2009

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           --- Upon commencing at 9.04 a.m.

 5             MR. STAMP:  Good morning, Your Honours, I was wondering if while

 6     we wait I could just announce in respect to the application before the

 7     Court for videolink for Shyhrete Dula.  The Prosecution has investigators

 8     now in Pristina preparing for the upcoming videolink and they have spoken

 9     to her and encouraged her.  And she has indicated that notwithstanding

10     her issues she is now ready and willing to come here.  So in those

11     circumstances we withdraw that application.

12             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you for that, Mr. Stamp.

13             MR. STAMP:  Thank you, Your Honours.

14             JUDGE PARKER:  You don't know how close you were in time.

15                           [The witness takes the stand]

16             JUDGE PARKER:  Good morning.  I would remind you the affirmation

17     you made to tell the truth still applies.

18             Mr. Djurdjic is continuing.

19             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.

20             JUDGE PARKER:  For a moment, Mr. Djurdjic, I thought you had

21     completed your cross-examination.

22             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Well, that's what it appeared to

23     be, but that's not quite what it is.  Now the mike is working.

24                           WITNESS:  VELIBOR VELJKOVIC [Resumed]

25                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

Page 7114

 1                           Cross-examination by Mr. Djurdjic: [Continued]

 2        Q.   Good morning.

 3        A.   Good morning.  My microphones are on now.

 4        Q.   Now, it's all right.  Both your and my microphone are on.

 5        A.   Well, yes, only one of my microphones is on.

 6        Q.   I don't know if this will interfere with interpretation, but

 7     let's try it.  Good morning, Mr. Veljkovic.

 8        A.   Good morning.

 9        Q.   So let me just remind you to speak slowly so that everything we

10     say is properly interpreted and enters into transcript.

11             Mr. Veljkovic, we finished yesterday with 1999 [as interpreted].

12     Now I would like to ask you about 1999.  Do you remember in January 1999

13     that there was an attack on a patrol at Dulje.

14        A.   Yes, this was an attack not in Dulje itself, but in a place

15     called Birac about 1 kilometre from Dulje in the direction of Prizren.  A

16     patrol set off to inspect certain areas and they described this happened

17     on the main communication where Albanian terrorists carried out an armed

18     attack on our police patrol on which occasion Milos Stevanovic, a

19     colleague, was killed.  Some were wounded lightly, some more gravely.

20     These were men who were not only from Suva Reka but also from other

21     interior Secretariats.

22        Q.   Thank you.

23             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we now please get document

24     D04-2254.  I apologise, 004-2254.

25        Q.   Sir, Mr. Veljkovic, this is the cover page of a criminal report

Page 7115

 1     submitted to the Prosecutor's Office in Prizren, Suva Reka OKP [as

 2     interpreted].

 3             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] Could we now please pull up

 4     page 2 of this document.

 5        Q.   This is a criminal report of the Suva Reka OUP in respect of the

 6     incident that we were discussing; am I correct?

 7        A.   Yes, that is what it says there.  The date is the

 8     8th of January, 1999, and then there is also a statement of facts.

 9        Q.   Thank you.

10             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we now please show page 5 of

11     this document.

12        Q.   We can see here a map with the place where the attack was carried

13     out marked; is that correct?

14        A.   Yes.

15             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we now please see page 6 of

16     this document.

17        Q.   This is an Official Note on a crime scene investigation in

18     respect of this incident.

19             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please mark this document

20     for identification pending a translation.

21             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes.

22             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, that will be Exhibit D00308 marked

23     for identification.

24             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

25        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, do you recall that on the eve of the air-strikes

Page 7116

 1     there was an attack in Suva Reka itself, an attack or an assault on

 2     Bogdan Lazic who was a salesperson in a small newspaper stand?

 3        A.   Yes, I know.  This happened a day or two before the air-strike,

 4     or thereabouts.  Around 11.00 or 12:00.  He was killed at his work-place.

 5     I think that he -- I think he was a salesperson in a rubber tire store.

 6     I heard -- I had heard of this event.  And this shop, this store where he

 7     worked was on the main street, the Cara Dusana Street and it was about

 8     50 to 100 metres from the spot where Milorad Vicevic [phoen] was killed

 9     in 1998.

10        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Veljkovic, could you tell us now, on the

11     26th of March, and we've established after so many years that that's when

12     it happened, as far as you can recall, how many policemen were there in

13     Suva Reka on that day?

14        A.   Do you mean the total number?

15        Q.   No, I don't mean the total number.  I mean how many persons were

16     present in Suva Reka?

17        A.   Well, between 10 to 15 active force policemen.  And I can't

18     really be sure about the reserve force.

19        Q.   Thank you.  Let me help you a bit.  Do you recall that there were

20     two individuals at the duty service, one of them was the shift leader and

21     the other one was the operator?

22        A.   Yes, he was the assistant there.

23        Q.   And do you recall that the shift leader was Gogic and that his

24     assistant was Goran Jokic?

25        A.   That's correct.

Page 7117

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Yesterday we talked about patrols.  And do you

 2     remember that there was an automobile patrol with Radovan Tanovic,

 3     Sladjan Cukaric, Miki Petkovic, and a witness who is a protected witness

 4     here, they were in this vehicle?

 5        A.   Yes, I know that they went on patrol.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  Now, is it correct that Cukaric and Tanovic were

 7     active duty police officers, whereas the other two were reservists,

 8     reserve policemen?

 9        A.   Yes, it is correct.

10        Q.   Thank you.  Is it true that Novkovic, Ivica was there too and

11     that he too was a reserve policemen?

12        A.   Yes.

13        Q.   Thank you.  Is it correct that the driver in this automobile

14     patrol was Ramiz Papic, one of the patrols?

15        A.   That's correct.

16        Q.   Is it correct that the crime technician, Todor Jovanovic, was

17     also a member of the OUP in Suva Reka at the outset -- in the beginning

18     of the war?

19        A.   Yes, he was a crime technician and he worked there since 1995.

20     He was there when I arrived.  I don't know how much earlier he had

21     started working there.

22        Q.   Thank you.  We also said that there were the chief of the OUP,

23     Vitosevic; Commander Repanovic; and assistant Jovanovic?

24        A.   Are you referring to the 26th?  Yes, in that case, yes.

25        Q.   Well, these were all the individuals who were there on that day;

Page 7118

 1     right?  Now, do you remember that there was also, at the church bell

 2     tower, there was also a police officer?

 3        A.   I know there was a command post -- an observation --

 4             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter correction.

 5             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] -- an observation post there.  When

 6     I was questioned in Belgrade, I was told about this.  But I don't know

 7     how the men were assigned to these observation posts.  I don't know if he

 8     was there specifically or in some other place.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  So theses were all -- this was all the personnel who

10     was there on the 26th in Suva Reka, can you recall if there was anyone

11     else?

12        A.   I cannot.

13        Q.   Thank you.  Let me now ask you this:  I'm not quite clear on what

14     you told us about where you slept and where your office was, does this

15     mean that both your sleeping quarters and your office were on the same

16     premises, or were your sleeping quarters in the same area where the

17     offices were?

18        A.   The sleeping quarters were at the other end of the hall in the

19     same building.  So let's say here in this area there are the sleeping

20     quarters or the bedrooms and at the other end you have offices.  This was

21     5 to 6 metres away, one from the other, that's it.

22        Q.   Thank you.  So you actually worked in this office there and once

23     you have completed your work, you would take this to your commander;

24     correct?

25        A.   Well, in fact, he would give me the daily mail and then I would

Page 7119

 1     have to distribute the mail.  And if there was a document that I needed

 2     to take to superior officers, I would do that.  Or in the event that

 3     there was an extraordinary event, I would have to inform him of that and

 4     that's about it.

 5             If there was nothing, then I would just sit there.  There would

 6     be no work and I would just turn on the radio and listen to the radio.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  Now tell us, how many police officers were there in

 8     this building where you were in addition to yourself?

 9        A.   Do you mean in the sleeping quarters?

10        Q.   Well, I mean on the premises on that day on the 26th?

11        A.   Well, I cannot recall exactly, although not many people slept

12     there.  Some were on positions, deployed at positions.  Some were in the

13     hotel.  So I can't really tell you the exact number.

14        Q.   Thank you.  Now, do you remember on the eve of the air-strikes

15     any measures being taken for moving the Suva Reka OUP out of those

16     premises?

17        A.   Well, I think we moved about two or three days after -- following

18     the 26th of March.  I happen to be in the duty office and I know that the

19     colleague Jovanovic was there; he was collecting some documents.  And we

20     were supposes -- he said we are supposed to move out of here tomorrow.

21     And this actually happened.  And I don't know exactly what time it was

22     when we moved out.

23        Q.   Thank you.  But in order to move this police station, you had to

24     undertake certain preparations.  Do you recall that a few days before the

25     war and the first two days of the war, assistant Jovanovic actually

Page 7120

 1     collected documents and put them on a truck that was there that was

 2     supposed to move them out?

 3        A.   I can't recall that.

 4        Q.   All right.  I would like to know this:  Did every patrol that

 5     went on a mission always have protective gear, a rifle and side-arms?

 6        A.   Yes.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  Tell me, please, what type of uniforms did you have

 8     in 1998 and 1999?  And I'm referring to the police officers of Suva Reka.

 9        A.   We had dark blue uniforms.  The members who were not members of

10     the PJP.  As for the PJP itself, they had light green uniforms.  So you

11     could tell us apart.  But the PJP only wore those uniforms when they went

12     on a mission, otherwise they did not wear them.

13        Q.   Thank you.  Are you talking about drab olive green camouflage

14     uniforms?

15        A.   Well, they had green and grey/blue uniforms, so I think it's

16     about those three types of uniforms.

17        Q.   I'm referring to the police officers who were regular police at

18     Suva Reka.

19        A.   Well, in that case, I misunderstood you.  They wore the dark blue

20     uniform, the same uniform that I wore.

21        Q.   Was this a camouflage uniform?

22        A.   Yes, dark blue camouflage uniform.

23        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Veljkovic, on the 26th in the morning, were you

24     present when Commander Repanovic issued tasks according to the schedule

25     of the work that had to be done?

Page 7121

 1        A.   No.  I would take the duty roster on the previous day and the

 2     list of patrols.  He would sign this document, and I would leave it at

 3     the duty service.  When -- during the working hours, the regular working

 4     hours, the shift leader who was on duty would issue these orders and the

 5     superior officers would have to sign it.

 6             Of course, the superior officer also had the authority to issue

 7     oral assignments.  Whether he did or didn't on any particular day, I

 8     wouldn't know anything about that.  Whether he issued an oral order which

 9     did not then -- which was not then written down in a -- on a duty roster.

10        Q.   Thank you.  Do you remember when it was that you left the -- your

11     office and went to the OUP building on the 26th?

12        A.   I really can't say for sure.  I know that until 7.00 p.m., when

13     this critical event happened, when the man was murdered at the police

14     station and the Berisha family, I cannot claim with certainty that I

15     actually went to see Commander Repanovic or that I went to the duty

16     office.  I don't know that I left my office, and I did not hear anything

17     about any preparations for a killing or things to that effect.

18        Q.   Thank you.  Do you remember whether in the meantime --

19             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter correction.

20             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] -- whether you learned in the

21     course of that morning that the motorised patrol had a duty, they were

22     tasked with taking food and water to the -- to the staff personnel that

23     was deployed around Suva Reka on that particular morning.

24             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, I know that this was their

25     task every morning, not only that particular morning.  So I wouldn't have

Page 7122

 1     anything else to add to that.

 2             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

 3        Q.   Thank you.

 4             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please now pull up

 5     document -- Exhibit P269.

 6        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, do you recognise this photograph?

 7        A.   I do not recognise it.  If this is Suva Reka, I cannot really see

 8     our station here, the church.  If this building in the centre of the

 9     photograph is Metohija Vino winery?

10        Q.   Can you see the bus terminal?

11        A.   Yes, I can see it now.  Here at the end is the -- our police

12     station and then the bus terminal.  Yes, this is Suva Reka.

13        Q.   Well, the reason I'm asking is because you said that you could

14     see the police station on that photograph which was D13, but I think this

15     photograph is better than the one we saw yesterday?

16        A.   No, actually, I think the one we saw yesterday was better, but

17     now I can find my way.  I can see that this is what it is.

18        Q.   All right.  Let me ask you then, when you were withdrawing --

19     when you withdrew from Suva Reka, when you left Suva Reka, was the church

20     and bell tower still standing?

21        A.   Yes.

22        Q.   Can you pin-point it; can you see it here in this photo?

23        A.   No.

24        Q.   Can we then conclude that this photo was taken after June 1999?

25             Mr. Veljkovic, did you hear me?

Page 7123

 1        A.   Well, I thought you were addressing the Trial Chamber.

 2        Q.   No, the questions are put to you.  You are the witness.

 3        A.   All right.  Well, we can conclude that with certainty because I

 4     believe that this was around here in this area.

 5        Q.   You mean where the rocks are?

 6        A.   Yes.

 7        Q.   Now, tell me, when we look at the left-hand side of this photo,

 8     we can see some houses there.  Can you see the OUP building?

 9        A.   I can see the OUP building at the end here.

10        Q.   Which one is it?  Could you please mark it with an X.

11        A.   Yes, I will.  I'll do that.  Here.  I've put an X on the roof.

12        Q.   Very well.  So the building marked with X is the OUP building.

13     Now, tell us, please, can you see the building where your sleeping

14     quarters were?

15        A.   Yes, you can see it here.

16        Q.   Would you please put the number 1 on that building?

17        A.   Well, here it is.  I'll put number 1 on the roof.

18        Q.   Thank you.  Would you now please mark with a number 3 the place

19     where you were when you went out onto the street.  Now, is this the

20     main street, the Prizren-Pristina Road, so-called Cara Dusana Street?

21        A.   Yes.  So you want me to mark the spot from which I observed

22     people fleeing?  Is that what you want me to do?

23        Q.   That's correct.

24        A.   Number 3?

25        Q.   Number 2.

Page 7124

 1        A.   [Marks]

 2        Q.   So you were standing there.  Now, could you, please, just put

 3     number 3 to mark the road that is Restanski Put so that we know which is

 4     which.

 5        A.   [Marks]

 6        Q.   Thank you.  And now could you please mark the main road with a

 7     dash and an arrow to show the direction Pristina-Prizren, the way the

 8     road runs.

 9        A.   You want me to put an arrow and what number?

10        Q.   Number 4.

11        A.   [Marks]

12        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, tell us, please, where was the bell tower before

13     it was destroyed?

14        A.   The bell tower was next to this building here.  You see this tree

15     and --

16        Q.   Would you please put a dot, a number 5, to mark that spot.

17        A.   Well, yes, I'll do it.  It was about here in this area, roughly

18     speaking.  I think it's probably a bit to the right.

19        Q.   Thank you.  Now, I would like to ask you this:  I can see a

20     portion of Restanski Put -- or rather, let's do it this way:  Tell me,

21     did you see your colleagues, the policemen, who had left before you in

22     the direction of the Berisha houses?  Did you see them at all?

23        A.   Well, I cannot really say with certainty that I did see when they

24     left.  However, when I entered the duty service office and from this

25     office --

Page 7125

 1        Q.   That was not actually my question.  Can you -- let's try this

 2     way.  Can you mark the Berisha house with a number 6.

 3        A.   [Marks]

 4        Q.   Thank you.  You told us that you did not know at the time that

 5     that was their last name, but do you know whether there were any other

 6     houses belonging to the Berisha family or was this the only one?

 7        A.   I only know about this one.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  Please listen carefully and answer my next question.

 9     When you came out of the police station and after the group of your

10     work-mates left some minutes before you, when you arrived in the place

11     number 2, did you see them as you were standing there?  Did you see your

12     colleagues, policemen?

13        A.   No, I did not.

14        Q.   Can you tell me what did you see in that place?

15        A.   At place number 2 I heard automatic rifle shots and I saw people

16     running from the courtyard towards the bus station and the shopping

17     centre.  As I said already, some were killed there and the rest ran off

18     trying to find shelter in one of the shops on the bus station compound.

19        Q.   Can you mark the courtyard you saw them run out of; if I

20     understood you well.

21        A.   I'll mark it.

22        Q.   Mark it nicely, please.  Can you mark the spot at which you saw

23     the people as they were running?

24        A.   I'll put a short line.

25        Q.   Can you also put an arrow to show the direction in which they

Page 7126

 1     ran?

 2        A.   Here it is.  They were running towards the bus station.

 3        Q.   Could you place a number 7 next to the arrow.

 4        A.   [Marks]

 5        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, you say you did not see the policemen but you

 6     heard the gun-shots.  Could you see in which direction they were

 7     shooting?

 8        A.   I could not.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  When you went outside and reached the place number 2,

10     did you see some of the bodies on Restanski Put?

11        A.   I cannot say anything with any certainty.  This was within a span

12     of a few seconds.  I can't tell you exactly whether by the time I arrived

13     at the place number 2 there had already been dead people there; but in a

14     matter of a few seconds perhaps, following that, I saw them fall dead.

15        Q.   That's what I'm asking you.  Had they been lying on the ground

16     dead by the time you arrived, or did you see them fall?

17        A.   What I can tell you with certainty is that within the first few

18     seconds of my arrival, I heard the shots and saw them fall.

19        Q.   Thank you.  Restanski Put Street, as we refer to it in jargon, is

20     it the -- is it Miladin Popovic Street?

21        A.   No, I think Miladin Popovic Street is the first intersection with

22     Restanski Put to the left.  It's a rather short street of about

23     100 metres.  It is next to the Metohija Vino company.

24        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, we see a good stretch of Restanski Put here.  As

25     you moved along that street, did you go further up the street to the part

Page 7127

 1     which we don't see in this photograph?

 2        A.   I think I did, but I'm not certain.  I don't know exactly where

 3     we made the U-turn and went back to the police station.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  When you see those people fleeing, as you saw them,

 5     where were they running to?

 6        A.   They crossed Restanski Put running towards the bus station

 7     compound.

 8        Q.   Can you indicate where they crossed the street?

 9        A.   I put the arrow number 7 there, and then in the direction of the

10     building with the green roof.  I think they found a passage in between

11     because there was a flight of stairs there, and they passed by the news

12     stand or some kiosks for fast food that were there.  They passed next to

13     them.  But this is all within the bus station compound or yard.  And then

14     they continued onwards towards the shopping centre.  I no longer saw them

15     at that point in time, but I presume that they wanted to shelter in one

16     of the shops.

17        Q.   Where did you lose sight of them?

18        A.   I can't say precisely that I saw them -- that I did not see them

19     anymore, but I can tell you approximately.  Do you want me to mark it?

20        Q.   Yes.

21        A.   Here, where the line is.

22        Q.   Could you place a number 8 there.

23        A.   [Marks]

24        Q.   Once they reached that point, you no longer knew where they were

25     going, it was only your assumption?

Page 7128

 1        A.   Yes.

 2        Q.   I'm asking you about that point in time.

 3        A.   Yes, that was my conclusion.

 4        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, were there any policemen in the part around the

 5     Metohija Vino company and -- where those people were running?  Did you

 6     see any policemen there?

 7        A.   I know that there was a position, a police position at the

 8     Metohija Vino company, but I don't know whether they were at the location

 9     number 8.

10        Q.   Did you see them there?

11        A.   I did not.

12        Q.   As you were standing in the place number 2, did you see any

13     policemen anywhere?

14        A.   No.

15        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, what followed?  You saw them fleeing, you heard

16     the shots without seeing a single policemen; what did you do next?

17        A.   I also cannot tell you anything with certainty, but I think I

18     returned either to the entrance of the police station or I went to the

19     duty officers' room.

20        Q.   In this area, save for the civilians, did you see a single

21     VJ soldier there?

22        A.   No.

23        Q.   Did you see a single tank, a self-propelled vehicle, or any

24     military equipment?

25        A.   No.

Page 7129

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Did you see on that day, the 26th, any members of any

 2     other unit save for the police unit in Suva Reka?

 3        A.   No.

 4        Q.   Did you see any trucks parked in front of the police station, two

 5     trucks used to transport the policemen?

 6        A.   I did not.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  When you set out, although you said you don't know

 8     where you went to, you did mention the police station, who did you find

 9     in the OUP building in Suva Reka?

10        A.   I cannot say anything with any certainty.  I know that the

11     officers were there, our superiors, that is to say, the commander, his

12     assistant, and the chief.  As for the policemen, I was there with the two

13     reservists because later on we started loading the bodies.  I can't tell

14     you who the shift leader was in the duty office.  There must have been

15     someone, but I no longer remember who was there.

16        Q.   Was the assistant supposed to be in the duty office on

17     communication lines?

18        A.   Do you mean the assistant to the commander?

19        Q.   No, the assistant shift leader.

20        A.   There must have been someone there, but I no longer remember who

21     was the shift leader or his assistant.

22        Q.   Do you remember or did you hear anyone get in touch over the

23     radio saying that a patrol came under attack and that they needed

24     assistance?

25        A.   I did not hear that; therefore, I cannot say with any certainty

Page 7130

 1     whether there was an attack or not.

 2        Q.   Thank you.  Did you hear the commander issue a task to check

 3     certain locations and find locators or markers used to guide NATO planes?

 4        A.   I did not hear that.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Save for your part of work, did you participate in

 6     any regular police tasks in the police station in Suva Reka?

 7        A.   No.

 8        Q.   Am I right in saying that on that day you were not a duty

 9     officer?

10        A.   You are right.

11        Q.   Let's clarify one thing which remains unclear to me.  You reached

12     a certain point along Restanski Put and made a U-turn; is that correct?

13        A.   Yes.

14        Q.   Am I right in saying that following the truck, you did not enter

15     the police station, but rather you turned towards the crafts and trades

16     centre?

17        A.   You are quite right.  I turned towards that building.

18        Q.   Since we see part of the streets here, did you follow the streets

19     or did you use a shortcut since you were on foot?

20        A.   I followed the truck on foot together with the two reservists.

21        Q.   Did you come out on to Cara Dusana Street and turn right?

22        A.   First to the left; and then as we were coming back, to the right.

23     We went this way, picked up those, and then back, and then right.

24        Q.   So we are already at the point in time as you were going back.

25     From the street you turned ...

Page 7131

 1        A.   Right.

 2        Q.   Following the truck, how did you reach the small business centre

 3     or trades and crafts centre?

 4        A.   On foot.  Yesterday I marked the building where the Berisha

 5     family members were killed.  It is next to the gas station where I'm

 6     pointing more or less.  It is perhaps 5 or 6 metres away from Cara Dusana

 7     Street.  I think it is one of the buildings of the small businesses

 8     centre.

 9        Q.   So you followed the truck all along reaching the building that

10     you, yesterday, marked?

11        A.   Yes.

12        Q.   Could you mark it again.  Can you put a number 9 there.

13        A.   I think this is it.

14        Q.   Thank you.  The building across the street, across the number 9

15     and to the left, what building is that?

16        A.   It was the municipal hall where the Territorial Defence had its

17     offices.  I think that's the yellow building, the first one.  Next to it

18     was the municipal misdemeanours office or court, and next to it was the

19     post office.

20        Q.   Could you mark the municipal hall.

21        A.   Out of the two buildings, I'm not certain which one it is.  I'm

22     not certain.  I think it's the one in the middle.

23        Q.   Was there a kiosk nearby?

24        A.   I know there was one just in front of the building number 9.

25     Perhaps 2 metres from the street on the pavement.

Page 7132

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Did you see a shop nearby that sold liquor, or a bar?

 2        A.   Across from number 9, in this group of buildings, there was a set

 3     of shops held by Albanians.  There were several owners.  They were

 4     taxpayers individually.  And the first building was a shop.  The second

 5     building was another shop.  And there was another with a catering

 6     establishment.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  Could the truck enter the part where the shops were

 8     that you just described?

 9        A.   No.  The truck could only move along the main street and the

10     street further down.  Although, when the shops received supplies, the

11     trucks would park there to unload the goods.

12        Q.   When you reached the shop, who was there of your colleagues?

13        A.   You mean --

14        Q.   Number 9.

15        A.   I can tell you with certainty that the reservist

16     Miroslav Petkovic was there, as well as the professional policemen

17     Radovan Tanovic and Sladjan Cukaric.  After that, the people from the

18     municipal utility company came and the undertakers, they were, for the

19     most part, between 13 and 15 years of age.  I don't know for sure whether

20     Boban, the doctor, was already there or whether he arrived later.  In any

21     case, I know for sure that he wore a military Territorial Defence uniform

22     that was green and he had an automatic rifle.  I can say that with

23     certainty.

24             As for the other colleagues who were there, I cannot tell you

25     anything more.

Page 7133

 1        Q.   While on the topic of the Territorial Defence it was already the

 2     time when the war had begun; am I right?

 3        A.   Yes.

 4        Q.   And the TO members were issued with their own weapons?

 5        A.   Yes.

 6        Q.   Dr. Boban was employed at the health clinic in Suva Reka?

 7        A.   Yes, he was the manager of the clinic.  The general opinion was

 8     that he was a good professional in what he did.

 9        Q.   Was a Soko [phoen] officer from the Suva Reka police station

10     Jovan -- Todor Jovanovic there?

11        A.   I'm not sure.

12        Q.   As you were moving along the street, did you see anyone at the

13     gas station?

14        A.   No.

15        Q.   Thank you.  You say that you followed the truck?

16        A.   Yes.

17        Q.   Who was in the truck?

18        A.   As I said yesterday, the driver was there, but there's no way for

19     me to recognise him any longer.  I don't know whether he was from

20     Suva Reka or Prizren.

21        Q.   Thank you.  Can you exclude the possibility that that truck

22     belonged to the public utilities company in Suva Reka?

23        A.   I cannot tell you anything.

24        Q.   Thank you.  You followed the truck therefore?

25        A.   Yes.

Page 7134

 1        Q.   Where did the truck stop and who stopped it?

 2        A.   I cannot make out what you are asking me, but you are probably

 3     asking me about the point where it stopped to have the bodies loaded.  It

 4     stopped at the place number 9 because there was a space there for it to

 5     stop between the Metohija Vino company and the small businesses centre.

 6     This was a rather large area.  It stopped so that the cabin of the truck

 7     was facing the municipal hall, and the trailer was already opened.  It

 8     was parked in such a way that it could turn either left or right.

 9        Q.   Why did you follow the truck on foot along Cara Dusana Street?

10        A.   Because none of the work-mates who were with me wanted to get in

11     the truck.  Therefore, I didn't either.

12        Q.   That's clear.  And you wouldn't all fit in anyhow.  But once you

13     reach the intersection, why didn't you go to the police station?  Why did

14     you continue following it?

15        A.   I continued following it because as we were loading the bodies, I

16     heard some shots from the direction of the municipal building.  I

17     supposed that the Berisha family members hid in a shop and that our men

18     found them easily, and they simply started killing them.  That is why I

19     went there because I knew that the corpses should not be left just like

20     that.  This was a great deal of bodies, and there would have been an

21     outbreak if we had left them.  If we had left them, there would be many

22     more accused and people prosecuted than there already were.

23        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, could you please just tell us the facts that you

24     knew on the 26th, on that very day, and not the things that you learned

25     later on.

Page 7135

 1             So my question is where were you when you heard, you said you

 2     heard a blast of an explosion, where were you when that happened?

 3        A.   I was on Restanski Road but where exactly, I can't pin-point the

 4     spot.

 5        Q.   I know that was what you said yesterday, that you couldn't

 6     remember, but from that place where you were, you could not see the small

 7     businesses centre, could you?

 8        A.   You could see the small business centre from that place.

 9        Q.   Could you see what was going on inside the small business centre

10     or shopping centre?

11        A.   Well, I couldn't see exactly the place where the killing was

12     taking place.  I heard the shots, but I did not see it.

13        Q.   When did you learn for the first time that these people were

14     hiding somewhere?

15        A.   When I saw them fleeing, I assumed, that was what occurred to me

16     at that moment, that they were returning in order to hide somewhere.  So

17     this was just my assumption.  I couldn't go and see where exactly they

18     were hiding.

19        Q.   I totally agree with you, but that's why I'm asking you.  I need

20     to know what you knew at that time because, you see, you marked this

21     number 9 and in fact, they could have gone to the municipal building or

22     the post office building, or they could go, this is an open area, so they

23     could go further.  And as far as I know, there was another Berisha

24     settlement behind those buildings?

25        A.   Well, I cannot say that with certainty.

Page 7136

 1        Q.   All right then.  What about the first part of my question?

 2        A.   Well, I can't really add anything.

 3        Q.   When you heard the blast, the explosion, you didn't know where

 4     they were, you didn't know the location?

 5        A.   I didn't.

 6        Q.   And from the spot where you were, you could not see these

 7     buildings marked with number 9; right?

 8        A.   No, I could not see it, but I could hear the blasts and I knew

 9     that it must be approximately in the area of this shopping centre or the

10     small business centre.

11        Q.   All right.  But how then did you know that you should go to this

12     building marked with number 9?

13        A.   Well, when I returned from Restanski Road, at the spot where I

14     marked with number 4, I saw that -- where the petrol station was on the

15     road or on the sidewalk, I saw a police officer there, or actually, I saw

16     some men.  I'm not sure exactly who they were.  And I assumed that some

17     people must have been killed in one of those small businesses.  And then

18     when I came up, when I came closer, I saw exactly the spot where these

19     people had been killed.

20        Q.   Who was with you when you reached the building marked with

21     number 9?

22        A.   I got there with two reserve officers and the truck driver.

23        Q.   So they were with you all along?

24        A.   Yes.

25        Q.   And about Novkovic, you said that he wasn't doing anything, he

Page 7137

 1     was just going, walking behind you?

 2        A.   Exactly.  He was not loading the bodies.  It would be sinful if I

 3     were to say that he was shooting at these men, he wasn't.  He wasn't

 4     doing anything.  He just felt sick.  He could not bring himself to

 5     loading these bodies.  He just didn't want to do it.

 6        Q.   All right.  Thank you.  Now, tell me, as you walked along

 7     Restanski Put, did you make any detours?

 8        A.   No.

 9        Q.   Can I conclude then that you did not go around the building

10     marked number 6, along that alley and behind the building?

11        A.   No, I didn't.

12        Q.   You told us that before you began loading the bodies onto the

13     truck you went to get a rifle?

14        A.   Yes.

15        Q.   Where was your rifle?

16        A.   My automatic rifle was in the administration office.

17        Q.   You also had a pistol; right?

18        A.   Yes.

19        Q.   Well, tell me then, what did you need a rifle for if you were

20     going to load those bodies?

21        A.   Well, let me put it this way, this Restanski Put Road was very

22     risky and dangerous.  There were terrorists and they could come out at

23     any moment and shoot at us.  So I needed it for self-defence, that's the

24     only reason.  Because it was wartime and that's how it was.  Although,

25     there were a lot of people who got killed on Restanski Put, there were

Page 7138

 1     land-mines there sometimes, people would run onto them, and then there

 2     were other incidents.  Zoran Randelovic or Randenovic, he was the chief

 3     of the Aleksinac OUP, he was killed there.  I think the driver who was

 4     driving him was also killed there.  AND that was the reason why I took

 5     the rifle with me.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  Did you have a cartridge belt on your rifle?

 7        A.   No, I had the rifle issued, but I did not have a cartridge belt.

 8     Although, in such situations you wouldn't even take it with you, you

 9     would take it off.

10        Q.   Thank you.  Now, yesterday you told us that at one point you

11     entered this pizzeria and that one person, I think a woman, moved and

12     this startled you and you fled?

13        A.   Yes, this was woman who was lying next to the door.  And when I

14     was questioned the first time, there were questions to the effect, and

15     the first -- one of the questions was what did the woman who was wounded

16     and sitting by the door, what did she say to you.  And then I told them,

17     as I mentioned it yesterday, I said that I had left the rifle by the door

18     and -- because it was interfering with my loading of the bodies.  And

19     then when I left -- when I put this rifle and put it by the door, then

20     she addressed me and I was so startled, I got frightened and I left.

21             Although, that is one of the typical errors that policemen do

22     when they assume that someone is dead whereas they are actually alive,

23     and that's how you can get killed.  If a man was to be in that position

24     lying down as pretending to be dead and then being in fact alive, then

25     they could use their weapon once you turned your back and shoot at you,

Page 7139

 1     and then this would be trouble.  But this was a woman, so I left the room

 2     frightened, although, I felt frightened even before that, because this

 3     was a horrible event.  This was something that is terrible to even think

 4     about let alone talk about.

 5             And I said then, This woman is alive.  And then one of my

 6     colleagues entered the room and fired a bullet and the woman was killed.

 7     Although she had only been wounded.

 8        Q.   Yes, but what was it, what was the cause of your fear?  Were you

 9     afraid that she might shoot at you?

10        A.   Well, at that point it just occurred to me that she might have a

11     weapon maybe with her.  You couldn't know.  She might want to shoot even

12     though she would be killed herself in that case.

13        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, was it common for civilians to be armed and to

14     actually open fire on police officers in those days?

15        A.   Well, citizens of Albanian ethnicity in 1998, for them this was

16     normal.  It was absolutely -- it was quite normal to fire a bullet at a

17     policeman or a Serb, just a Serb national.  This was something that was

18     very easy for them to do.  And for most citizens of Albanian ethnicity,

19     this was just a normal occurrence.

20        Q.   Tell us now, do you remember that during the war and even before

21     the war, that members of the KLA after they went on a mission, they would

22     change their clothes and put on civilian clothes so that in this way they

23     would escape detection?

24        A.   I wouldn't know anything about that.

25        Q.   You never participated in such an action?

Page 7140

 1        A.   No.

 2        Q.   Did you ever take part in road checks and checks for -- searches

 3     for weapons and things like that?

 4        A.   Well, this did happen.  I did do that before the war.  In 1994,

 5     when I was appointed to Suva Reka, from that point on, most people had

 6     dealings with persons who had weapons, unauthorised weapons,

 7     automatic rifles, pistols, and so on.  So these people would be brought

 8     to the police station, interviewed, and some of them would be summoned to

 9     come to the police station as suspects, others not.  I don't know exactly

10     what the procedure was, but I know that whenever there was a suspicion

11     that someone might own a fire-arm, they would bring them in to check the

12     weapons.

13             Sometimes they would have a weapon, they would be brought into

14     the police station, and then -- and of course, they would possess an

15     unauthorised weapon, and then after this interview they would bring

16     another weapon in.

17        Q.   Now, tell me, do you know of instances where Albanians would

18     voluntarily surrender their arms because they knew that there would be

19     amnesty?  Do you know of such instance that they would come in

20     voluntarily and surrender their weapon?

21        A.   Well, I don't know about that.  I know that we received a

22     telegram from the ministry.  And on one occasion, I don't recall how it

23     worked, but on the second occasion they were given a two-month period -

24     and this did not only refer to Kosovo but for the entire territory of

25     Serbia - that whoever had unauthorised weapons could come and surrender

Page 7141

 1     them and they would not be amnestied, they would not be submitted to

 2     criminal prosecution.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  Now, tell me, other than the truck that you were

 4     following, did you see any other trucks on the 26th of March, 1999?

 5        A.   I cannot say that with certainty.  I cannot claim either way,

 6     that there was or wasn't.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  Now, you set off from the spot you marked on number 2

 8     and you headed up Restanski Put Road; correct?  Could you tell us now,

 9     please, where did you find the bodies that you said you loaded onto the

10     truck, what spot was that at?

11        A.   At the spot marked with number 7 and where the arrow is.  Where

12     the arrow is, actually, below the 7, that's where we found the bodies.

13        Q.   Thank you.  So as you were walking along that road, you did not

14     find any other bodies along the road?

15        A.   I say that I didn't.  If somebody else said that they did, they

16     can explain it.

17        Q.   I agree.  Now, you said that you walked about a kilometre, a

18     kilometre and a half, and that that lasted about 15 minutes or so?

19        A.   Yes.

20        Q.   Thank you.  Can we then conclude that the shots could only be

21     heard by those individuals who had left the police station before you?

22        A.   Yes.

23        Q.   And you recall that those persons were Cukaric, Tanovic, and

24     Miki Petkovic; correct?

25        A.   Yes.

Page 7142

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Now, I would like to explore this.  You said that

 2     throughout this there was witness, whose name we don't want to mention,

 3     with you; correct?

 4        A.   Yes.

 5        Q.   Do you remember whether he was a member of the patrol on that

 6     day?

 7        A.   Well, when we set off, he was in the courtyard of the police

 8     station.  I can't remember what duty he was assigned to on that

 9     particular day, and I cannot remember what he had done up until that

10     point.  As for the rest, I've explained how it transpired.

11        Q.   Yes.  And the other three, Cukaric, Tanovic, and Petkovic, were

12     they on the patrol roster for that day, as far as you know?  Were they

13     members of the patrol?

14        A.   I cannot really say with certainty.  I know that they were

15     frequently on patrol.  Whether Radovan Tanovic was there, whether he had

16     been at his home the previous day and then his unit left, I know he was a

17     member of the special unit.  But -- so they couldn't take him.  He could

18     not go to the positions where his unit had gone to subsequently, so he

19     remained there at the station.  And I know that he was there and these

20     other police members, I know that the driver was also a member of the

21     patrol, our colleague, Ramiz Papic.  But whether it was on that

22     particular day or whether he had some other assignment on that day, I

23     can't say that with certainty.

24        Q.   Thank you.  And am I correct if I say that there were two patrols

25     a day and that they would take turns?

Page 7143

 1        A.   Well, we actually had three shifts -- three patrol shifts a day.

 2     Until the attacks began, we had two shift patrols per day; but when the

 3     war broke out, that changed and we had three shifts a day.  So those

 4     shifts were 8 hours-1600; then 1600-2400; and then 2400-0800.  Now, who

 5     was on those patrol, I couldn't really say that.  Well, the person, for

 6     instance, who worked from 8.00 to 4.00, 8.00 to 1600 today, then in the

 7     evening they would work from 8.00 to 12.00.

 8        Q.   Is that how it was throughout the war, that there were three

 9     shifts of patrols?

10        A.   That's correct, throughout the end of the war.

11        Q.   Therefore, the people who had left the station are the people you

12     found at the location number 9?

13        A.   Yes.

14        Q.   The person whose name we don't want to mention, why would he have

15     a reason to say that he was a member of the patrol and that he was with

16     the three other men rather than with you?

17        A.   Maybe on that day he was a member of the vehicle patrol, under

18     the schedule.  I cannot say anything with certainty.  The computer that I

19     kept, which is now in Krusevac, if it's still there, can be used to check

20     that.  They should look into the roster and orders for the

21     26th of March, 1999, and they will see exactly whether he was a member of

22     the patrol.

23        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Veljkovic, I'm asking you about your knowledge

24     concerning such evidence that can be obtained, I presume.  But I'm

25     interested in your knowledge.  That person told us that he was a member

Page 7144

 1     of the vehicle patrol and that he was between the buildings where the

 2     number 6 is, and then that he went to the building number 9 and that he

 3     did not work at all on the loading of the bodies.

 4        A.   I can only repeat, I'm not certain what were his tasks that day,

 5     and whether anything changed in the course of his shift.  As for what he

 6     said, that he was not with me, I told him in Belgrade that he was and

 7     then he fell silent.  I may be wrong, but I think his story is to his

 8     detriment.  Therefore, I stand by what I said.  And that is that as of

 9     the beginning and until the end, we were loading the bodies together.  As

10     for any period preceding that, between 8.00 and noon and later in the

11     afternoon, I can't say anything.

12             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would kindly ask the usher to

13     give this unmarked hard copy to the witness.

14             JUDGE PARKER:  What is it, Mr. Djurdjic?

15             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would like to put him the part

16     of the statement given in 2004 to an investigative judge.

17             JUDGE PARKER:  This is his own statement?

18             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Yes.

19        Q.   Please turn --

20             MR. STAMP:  Just for clarification, is that the transcript of the

21     audio recording of his interview or is it a statement that was taken?

22             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. Stamp, this is what you gave

23     me and what you used yesterday.  You have the same copy as well as the

24     court in Belgrade.  I only provided the witness with the document you

25     used yesterday.  It is K040 page 85 --

Page 7145

 1             THE INTERPRETER:  Could Mr. Djurdjic repeat the number of the

 2     page.

 3             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

 4        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, did you find the page 63?

 5        A.   I did.

 6        Q.   Can you read out the bottom part of the page?

 7        A.   "Did you see a reserve policemen ..."  I don't want to read the

 8     first and last name.

 9        Q.   That's right.

10             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Sorry, first I wanted to tell the

11     Chamber and Mr. Stamp that it is page 16 of the English.

12        Q.   Please continue.

13        A.   Investigative judge:

14             "Did you see a reserve policemen?"

15             Witness Veljkovic:

16             "He was there."

17             Judge:

18             "Where was he?"

19             Witness:

20             "He was in front of the cafe bar.  I don't think he killed

21     anyone.  I can't say he did.  He may have or he may have not."

22        Q.   Please turn the next page and read out the first two questions

23     and answers.

24        A.   Judge:

25             "You didn't see him?"

Page 7146

 1             Witness:

 2             "He was there but I didn't see him kill anyone."

 3        Q.   Thank you.  This is your statement.  The first statement before a

 4     court following the statement you gave to the police?

 5        A.   This is the second statement.  The first one was in 2003.

 6        Q.   But this one was the first before a court?

 7        A.   Yes.

 8        Q.   That's why I'm asking you this.  In this statement you say that

 9     you saw the witness in front of the building number 9 and that he did not

10     shoot, that he was merely there?

11        A.   I probably mixed things up.  I believe I got confused.  I can

12     tell you that this person was with me as of the moment we started loading

13     those bodies.  He was on Restanski Put when we went up and returned next

14     to the building number 9.  I think the two of us loaded most of the

15     bodies.  After that, we received help from the people of the public

16     utilities company.  I think that reservist left this place at the number

17     9 building shortly before me.  Then I returned to the station.  Although,

18     not all the bodies had been loaded by that time.

19        Q.   Am I correct in saying that none of the three of you on that day

20     fired either a rifle or a side-arm?

21        A.   I can tell you about me with certainty.  As for the other two

22     colleagues, I didn't see them fire.  If anyone else did, then that person

23     should explain.  And still, they may have been firing in the air.  It's

24     not the same as firing on people.

25        Q.   You are saying to us that you did not see the two colleagues

Page 7147

 1     fire?

 2        A.   That is correct.

 3        Q.   Throughout the time they were with you?

 4        A.   Yes.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Did you drink any alcohol with the witness, whose

 6     name we don't want to mention, on that day when you were next to the

 7     building number 9?

 8        A.   I know I did not.  I do take a drink here and there, but I don't

 9     get drunk.  Secondly, the situation was such that there was no time to

10     have any alcohol that day.

11        Q.   Thank you.  What about the other policemen in front of the

12     building number 9, did you see them consume alcohol?

13        A.   I cannot say that with any certainty.  I didn't see them.

14        Q.   You left before the end of the loading of bodies.  You returned

15     to the police station?

16        A.   Yes.

17        Q.   Am I right in saying that you did not see the truck leave?

18        A.   You are.

19        Q.   You don't know in what direction it left?

20        A.   I could presume that it would not have been an ordinary thing to

21     take the corpses towards Pristina because that road was under attack.  I

22     believe the truck went towards Prizren.  When I was being questioned by

23     the authorities, then I did tell them that the corpses were taken away.

24        Q.   On the 26th, you did not know where the truck left to?

25        A.   That's correct.

Page 7148

 1             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I believe it is our

 2     time for the technical break.

 3             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic, we spent 35 or 40 minutes marking

 4     this aerial photo again.  Did you want to tender it?

 5             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.  I do.  I

 6     seek to tender it.

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

 8             THE REGISTRAR:  As Exhibit D00309, Your Honours.

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  We will adjourn now and resume at 11.00.

10                           [The witness stands down]

11                           --- Recess taken at 10.31 a.m.

12                           --- On resuming at 11.01 a.m.

13                           [The witness takes the stand]

14             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic.

15             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

16        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, on the 26th of March, 1999, did you see

17     Milorad Nisevic as you went along Restanski Put or by the pizzeria?

18        A.   I did not.

19        Q.   Thank you.  Did you know Zoran Petkovic at the time?

20        A.   At that time I only knew his brother Miroslav, not him.

21        Q.   Am I right in saying that Zoran Petkovic was not a member of the

22     reserve police force in Suva Reka?

23        A.   You are right.

24        Q.   Thank you.  How should I ask you this without sounding silly, but

25     in any case, on that occasion, did you see anyone firing whom you did not

Page 7149

 1     know?

 2        A.   I did not.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  Am I right, Mr. Veljkovic, in saying that

 4     Milan Cifka [phoen] was not an OUP Suva Reka employee in 1998 and 1999?

 5        A.   You are right.

 6        Q.   In the village of Ranic [phoen] in 1998 and 1999 there was no

 7     police station; is that correct?

 8        A.   It is.

 9        Q.   Thank you.

10             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could I please have document

11     D004-2262.

12        Q.   Did you see the first page of the document?

13        A.   I did.

14        Q.   Have a close look.

15             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] Can we next move to the second

16     page.

17        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, does this schematic reflect the layout of the

18     building on the ground floor and the first floor of the police station in

19     Suva Reka?

20        A.   Yes, it does.

21        Q.   Thank you.  I think you were shown this during the trial before

22     the war crimes Chamber in Belgrade; do you recall it?

23        A.   I was shown schematics, but I don't recall this one in

24     particular.

25        Q.   Thank you.  We said that this is the layout of the building, and

Page 7150

 1     that it is correct?

 2        A.   Yes.

 3        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, this is the ground floor; right?

 4        A.   Yes, it is.

 5        Q.   We see the entrance door to the ground floor.  Can you mark that

 6     with a 1.

 7        A.   Where it says the small room?

 8        Q.   Wherever you think is the entrance, mark the entrance with the

 9     number 1.

10        A.   Go ahead.

11        Q.   Please mark the entrance to the duty office.

12        A.   You want me to mark it with a 1?

13        Q.   Yes, at the entrance.

14        A.   [Marks]

15        Q.   Thank you.  Is it correct that the duty office is to the right?

16        A.   It is.

17        Q.   Can you mark it with a 2.

18        A.   [Marks]

19        Q.   Is this where the shift leader of the duty office sits?

20        A.   Yes.

21        Q.   What about communications, where is that equipment, can you mark

22     it with a 3.

23        A.   [Marks]

24        Q.   Thank you.  Next mark the detention room with a 4.

25        A.   [Marks]

Page 7151

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Veljkovic, when one is in the duty office, where

 2     would the courtyard be?

 3        A.   Most of the courtyard is to the right of the number 3.

 4        Q.   Please put a dash, a line there, and mark it with a 5.

 5        A.   [Marks]

 6        Q.   Where were you when you heard Commander Repanovic say to the

 7     policemen to go somewhere?

 8        A.   And to me, and I refused, is this what you mean?

 9        Q.   I'm interested in two things.  Were you with them there or did

10     they leave first and were you told to join them, and where did it all

11     take place?

12        A.   They were supposed to leave, and I came at that point, having

13     heard what commander Repanovic told me, I refused.  I can tell you where

14     he was.

15        Q.   Were you present when he told them what to do?

16        A.   No.

17        Q.   Thank you.  Now, show me where you were.

18        A.   At that point -- how do you want me to mark it?

19        Q.   First tell me where were you so as to make sure you were in the

20     building or maybe outside.

21        A.   Where it says the duty officers' room, I was just in front of

22     that room.

23        Q.   Mark it with an X.

24        A.   [Marks]

25        Q.   And put a 6 there.

Page 7152

 1        A.   [Marks]

 2        Q.   So you were in front of the building where you arrived?

 3        A.   Yes.

 4        Q.   When you arrived, where were the other policemen?

 5        A.   To the right of the number 6.

 6        Q.   How far?

 7        A.   Perhaps 3 to 4 metres from the entrance door.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  What were they doing as you came?

 9        A.   I simply saw them armed and that they were getting ready to

10     leave.

11        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Veljkovic, members of the vehicle patrol are

12     always armed and equipped when out on a mission or a task?

13        A.   That is correct.

14        Q.   Was it something extraordinary to see them dressed like that?

15        A.   No, not given the situation.

16        Q.   As you were approaching, were they leaving or doing something

17     else?

18        A.   Well, they went to the right of this number 6 towards the carpool

19     because that's where the parking area was for the vehicles.

20     Approximately there.

21        Q.   Thank you.  So they went around the corner; correct?  When you

22     came to the spot marked with number 6, is that where the commander of the

23     police station was?

24        A.   Yes, he was there.  Maybe a metre or two to the left or right.

25        Q.   Thank you.  And you are telling us that you can't remember what

Page 7153

 1     he told you then?

 2        A.   There is no way I can remember what he told me, but --

 3        Q.   But you concluded that you didn't want to go?

 4        A.   Yes, I simply decided that I did not want to go anywhere with

 5     these men.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  And what did you do next?

 7        A.   Then I went inside, I entered the hallway on the ground floor,

 8     and -- to the right where the duty service office is, and I think that I

 9     sat down there by the door, by the very door.

10        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Veljkovic, now, tell us please, what did the

11     commander do once you entered the office of the duty service?

12        A.   He did not say another word to me.

13        Q.   Thank you.  Do you know where he went?

14        A.   I can't remember whether he remained in the yard where I put the

15     number 6, or whether he left -- went to his own office.  I'm not sure.

16        Q.   Thank you.  Can you tell us, from the point when you entered the

17     office of the duty service onwards, did you see him for the remainder of

18     the day?

19        A.   When I returned from the building and the loading of the bodies

20     was still going on, he was in the building.  I did see him.  But what he

21     did, that's really his business.

22        Q.   Thank you.  Did you talk to him at all after that?

23        A.   No, nor did he address me in any way.

24        Q.   Thank you.  Now, so we are at the point in time where you are in

25     the duty service office.  What happens next?

Page 7154

 1        A.   Well, what happens is what I told you already.  The room, the

 2     detention room, the patrol brought a man, an Albanian to the detention

 3     room.  He was a suspect because the patrol found him shooting at the

 4     police.  So this was an armed attack on the police.  He was held in

 5     detention there.

 6             When I came there, a few days before when he was brought there, I

 7     heard sounds, I was in the hallway, I heard sounds from the detention

 8     room.  I asked what it was, what was going on, and I was told that he had

 9     been brought there.  However, I'm not sure about the rest.  We know what

10     the procedure is when there is a suspect brought in as a suspect.  There

11     is a fixed procedure that has to be followed when that happens.  Whether

12     they actually complied with the procedure or not, I really don't know.

13        Q.   Thank you.  We will come back to this.  But I would like to know

14     this:  It says here "Detention Unit."  However, the Suva Reka OUP did not

15     have a room that was a detention room.  It was, rather, a -- it was

16     actually a room where a person was kept until they were sent to a

17     Detention Unit or to the jail?

18        A.   Yes, this room that was used for detaining persons was a problem

19     everywhere, and the same is true of Suva Reka.  This room, in my view,

20     and maybe I'm not right, was not suitable for detaining people there, for

21     a person staying in that room.  At least not according to our rules.

22        Q.   Well, that's what I wanted to ask you about.  You said that some

23     person was held in that room for a number of days.  Could you tell us, in

24     regard to the 26th of March, when was this man brought there?

25        A.   Well, he might have been brought the 23rd or the 24th of March

Page 7155

 1     there.

 2        Q.   Thank you.  Would you agree with me that the war had not started

 3     yet on the 23rd or 24th of March?

 4        A.   Yes.

 5        Q.   Do you agree with me that on the 24th in the evening, the state

 6     of war was declared?  It was only then that it was declared?

 7        A.   Yes.

 8        Q.   So in peacetime, the Suva Reka OUP did not have a crime inspector

 9     who dealt with terrorism, who investigated terrorism?

10        A.   I think not.  I'm not sure, and I cannot say for certain either

11     way.

12        Q.   Thank you.  That's why I'm asking you.  Such individuals, if they

13     are suspects, they would be then escorted and handed over to the

14     Prizren SUP for further processing, for the crime report to be submitted

15     and so on?

16        A.   Yes.  There are fixed procedures what needs to be done.  There

17     are dead-lines that have to be met.  So first of all, a policeman who

18     would bring in someone would have to explain why the person was brought

19     in, then the person would have to be searched and so on.  Then

20     interviewed and then there would be a decision on their detention issued,

21     written decision, and then that person, following such a decision, would

22     be detained.

23             Now, whether these people actually complied with the procedure

24     and acted on it, I really wouldn't know.

25        Q.   Thank you.  Being in the administration, did you have anything to

Page 7156

 1     do with this type of procedure?

 2        A.   No.

 3        Q.   And who was in charge of processing the papers for such a suspect

 4     who was brought in to Suva Reka OUP?

 5        A.   Well, this would be a paper that would have to be issued when a

 6     person is brought in.

 7        Q.   All I would like to know is the paperwork.  Who would do the

 8     paperwork, fill out the forms, the necessary forms, the log-book where

 9     the name would be entered, and so on?  Who would be in charge of that?

10        A.   Well, the log-book for persons who are detained can be --

11     actually, the decision to detain a person who is brought into the station

12     would be something that could be issued by the commander, the deputy

13     commander, or the assistant.  And then they would further process and

14     issue the decisions.

15        Q.   So this was not done by the duty service; correct?

16        A.   That's correct.  Now, I'm not sure whether this would be written

17     down in the log-book that a person was brought in as a suspect.

18        Q.   Thank you.  Now, tell me, who would be in charge of a suspect, of

19     a person who was brought in as a suspect and kept in this room for

20     detention?  Who is responsible for this person?

21        A.   Well, the authorised person, once a decision, a written decision

22     was issued, would be the shift leader at the duty service.  And he was

23     duty-bound to inform the following shift leader, the shift leader coming

24     after him, to inform him of a person being detained and what type of

25     detention it is and so on.

Page 7157

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Now, tell us, please, you were in the office of the

 2     duty service, what happened next?  What can you recall?

 3        A.   I cannot remember exactly which one of my colleagues picked up

 4     the key that hung above the desk of the shift leader, and I can't recall

 5     who it was exactly who picked up this key which was hanging there.  The

 6     key to the room for detention.  But I remember clearly that they took

 7     this key, they unlocked the room, they took this man out, and he was

 8     taken out into the hallway from this room marked with number 4, brought

 9     to the spot where it says number 1.  And then they did not enter the duty

10     service office, rather he turned right and then went toward the place

11     marked with number 6 and then around the corner to the place marked with

12     number 5 where an APC was parked some 10 metres from the corner of the

13     building where number 134/98 is written down.

14             And from this office of the duty service, I heard, because it was

15     not too far away, I heard a shot.  I can't remember if it was a pistol or

16     a rifle shot, whether there was one or several shots.  And when I went

17     out, I mean, it immediately occurred to me that I was suspicious.  I had

18     suspicions that they wanted to shoot this man.  And when I reached the

19     corner of the building, the building of the Suva Reka police station, I

20     saw this man dead and next to him was Radovan Tanovic, Sladjan Cukaric

21     and Miroslav Petkovic, they were standing there next to him.  I don't

22     know who it was of the three who shot him.  They would know that better.

23        Q.   Thank you.  So you heard this shot but you didn't see it actually

24     happening.  What happened from the moment when you heard the shot to the

25     time when you got out of the office?

Page 7158

 1        A.   Well, it was just a few seconds, let's say 30 seconds.

 2        Q.   Thank you.  What did the three of them do when you arrived?

 3        A.   Nothing, they were just standing by this man and they were not

 4     doing anything.

 5        Q.   Tell us, now, what happened next.

 6        A.   I think I went back to the duty service office and then some five

 7     to ten minutes later, as I've already told you, I heard a burst of

 8     gun-fire coming from the direction of Restanski Put or thereabouts, and

 9     then I went out.  I was on the sidewalk as I described this yesterday, of

10     Cara Dusana Street, and then I saw the things that I described yesterday.

11        Q.   Thank you.  So you didn't know nor did you see when you went back

12     to the duty service office, where they went?

13        A.   That's correct.

14        Q.   And you just reacted because you heard the sound of gun-shots or

15     shots; correct?

16        A.   Yes.

17        Q.   Now, let me ask you this do you know who Milica Djordjevic is?

18        A.   Yes.

19        Q.   Do you allow for the possibility that the person who was detained

20     was taken to the house that you earlier marked with number 2 and shot

21     there, shot dead there?

22        A.   Well, this is what he claimed in Belgrade, and I think you were

23     one of the Defence team of one of the accused there, so he claimed that

24     this man was taken to that house and that from the bell tower he saw that

25     Sladjan Cukaric had shot the man.  On the other hand, he also claimed

Page 7159

 1     that I was not in Suva Reka on that particular day at all.  So that his

 2     entire statement to me is simply suspicious, or it lacks credibility.

 3        Q.   Well, let me just ask you this:  If you were at the spot marked

 4     with number 2 and he was at the spot where the bell tower was, this

 5     distance would have been approximately the same as the distance -- so the

 6     distance from the bell tower to house number 2 and from where you were to

 7     number 2 was approximately the same, and the line of vision was

 8     approximately the same?

 9        A.   Yes, that's correct.  I saw some people standing there and

10     that -- you could also see on the sketch that I made, and also it could

11     be seen from the bell tower because there were some windows there and

12     anyone who had good vision could see it.

13             Although, I stand by what I said.  And I said that this man, who

14     had been detained, was shot next to the building of the Suva Reka OUP.

15     And I stand by that.  Whether they said something else, I don't know, but

16     I stand by what I said.

17        Q.   All right.  Tell us this:  When you heard the shots, you went to

18     the spot outside the bus terminal.  Tell us this:  Was someone --

19             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter correction:  In front of the police

20     station.

21             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

22        Q.   Now, tell me this, was anyone with you while you were there

23     outside the police station when you heard the shots and you went out onto

24     the street outside the police station, was there anyone there with you?

25        A.   I can't recall, but I think there wasn't anyone there.

Page 7160

 1        Q.   Was there anything on the street as you got out of the building?

 2        A.   Well, there was only a vehicle parked by a lamp post, that was

 3     the vehicle containing the bodies of the dead members of the Berisha

 4     family.

 5        Q.   Was the vehicle there when you arrived there?

 6        A.   When I got out to see which family they were killing, the vehicle

 7     was already there.  Now, when it had been brought there, I wouldn't know

 8     that.

 9        Q.   Would you tell me, please, other than the parked truck, was there

10     anything else on the road?

11        A.   I can't recall, and I can't say with any certainty whether there

12     was or wasn't.

13        Q.   Can I conclude then that you don't know where this truck had come

14     from, the parked truck that you saw there when you left the building?

15        A.   Yes, you can.  I can't say exactly from which direction it had

16     come, but for reasons of security, I concluded that it could only have

17     come from the direction of Prizren because the Pristina direction was

18     quite dangerous already.

19        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, could they have come from the part where the

20     municipal building was or the Balkan building was?

21        A.   Yes, but that's all from the direction of Prizren.

22        Q.   Yes, but they could have come from some spot in Suva Reka; right?

23        A.   Yes, of course.  This was all in Suva Reka.

24        Q.   Now, tell us, how long did you stay there outside the police

25     station?

Page 7161

 1        A.   I can't recall, but I think it wasn't very long.  Maybe a minute

 2     or so that I lingered there at the spot where the sidewalk was and where

 3     this parked truck was.

 4        Q.   All right.  So what did you do next?

 5        A.   Next I went back to the station -- into the station, and then, I

 6     can't remember who it was who told me to go and load the bodies because

 7     the bodies had to be buried, so then I went to the administration office

 8     to take my rifle.  I'm not sure if I had my pistol on me already.  Then I

 9     got ready.  I locked up the administration room and went behind this

10     truck to load the bodies.

11        Q.   Thank you.  So you don't remember exactly where it was that you

12     set off from but you remember you took the rifle, and then again, you had

13     to walk out through the station courtyard, so what happened next?

14        A.   Well, what I'm saying is that this detained person was lying

15     there dead.  His body was lying there.  And then I loaded this body

16     together with a colleague who was a protected witness here, we loaded him

17     onto the truck and then the truck went in the direction of Restane.

18             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] Could you next turn to page

19     K04085.

20             JUDGE PARKER:  The sketch of the police station that has been

21     marked, Mr. Djurdjic?

22             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.  I asked

23     for that to be copied and translated.  I don't know whether we can mark

24     it as such for identification.  There's very little to translate, and we

25     had the witness explain everything.  Therefore, I seek to tender it.  If

Page 7162

 1     that cannot be met, then perhaps we could have it MFI'd pending

 2     translation.  Of course, the marked numbers will be missing, but then

 3     they can be copied as well.

 4                           [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  We will have the marked page as an exhibit.

 6             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, that will be Exhibit D00310.

 7             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

 8        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, please go to page 59.

 9        A.   8559?

10        Q.   Yes.  From the bottom, the fourth and third lines, can you read

11     out the question and the answer?

12        A.   Which sentence exactly?

13        Q.   The investigative judge and what happened and then what follows.

14        A.   Investigative judge:

15             "What happened with the corpse of the detainee?"

16             Witness:

17             "He was taken away on a truck.  I don't know where to."

18        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Veljkovic.

19             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] It is page 11 of the English, I

20     apologise for having omitted to say that.

21             JUDGE PARKER:  I take it you are referring to the transcript of

22     the questioning by Judge Dilparic?  Thank you.

23             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] This is the same statement.  I

24     have a translation for the other one, that was provided to the

25     Prosecution.  So we have a number for that.

Page 7163

 1        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, in 2004 you said that the body was taken away on a

 2     truck and that you didn't know where to.  This is a transcript.

 3        A.   It reflects what I said.  I put it that way at that time.  I

 4     forgot some things and now I put it differently, so that's a problem

 5     then.

 6        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, is your recollection better now or was it better

 7     back then since that was closer to the events?

 8        A.   It would be illogical for me to say that my recollection is

 9     better now since more time has elapsed, but I would like to stand by what

10     I just said and that is that we put the body on the truck and that

11     together with the Berisha family, that body was buried.

12        Q.   Would you agree with me that this is the type of event that is

13     difficult to forget, it is in the your run-of-the-mill day?  You see a

14     corpse like that and it remains etched in your memory?

15        A.   That is correct, but the situation in which I was there doing it

16     with my work-mates was such that some things remain etched in my memory

17     whereas others I seem to have easily forgotten.

18        Q.   Thank you for that response.

19             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] Could we please provide the

20     witness with his statement given to the Prosecution on the

21     18th of January, 2006.  I have it in B/C/S.

22             Your Honours, and Mr. Stamp, this is 65 ter 05337.

23        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, look at the end of paragraph 18, it is page 5 in

24     the English.  Here you say in the sentence mentioning the pizzeria, I

25     quote:

Page 7164

 1             "There was a crime technician officer present at the pizzeria

 2     named Todor Jovanovic though I did not see him conducting any sort of

 3     investigation."

 4             Is that correct?

 5        A.   As I said yesterday, the problem we have is that my statements,

 6     well, I shouldn't overstate it, but let's say half of it does not tally.

 7     I included some things that others had said.  Those who questioned me

 8     were far more versed in the very core of the problem in the case itself,

 9     and they prompted me, and I then consented that certain things be

10     introduced into my statement.

11             I cannot say with any certainty whether there was a

12     scene-of-crime officer there by the name of Todor Jovanovic or not.  If

13     several people said so.  In my view, he wasn't there.  As for any others,

14     I can't say.

15        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, I want to only hear from you about the things you

16     know and saw.  When you were referring to someone else, then, of course,

17     you can warn us about that.  Let's clear one thing up:  This statement

18     you signed in English, was it read back to you?

19        A.   Yes, in Serbian.  I signed every page of it.

20        Q.   But you signed the English pages, correct, not the Serbian ones?

21        A.   I can't say.  I do think that I only signed the English copy, not

22     the Serbian.

23        Q.   I don't think that is in dispute.  We have it here.  And you had

24     no objections when it was being read back to you?

25        A.   No, I signed without any objection.

Page 7165

 1        Q.   Given the time that has passed, there may have been more ideas

 2     and combinations that came to your mind since then, this is the third

 3     statement?

 4        A.   No, this is the fourth at Jevrem Grujica, number 11.  If we do

 5     not count the Leskovac statement, then it is the third.  If we do, then

 6     this is the fourth statement.  I gave a statement in Leskovac in 2004.

 7        Q.   When you gave the first statement to the police, they also shared

 8     information with you to the effect that they knew certain things?

 9        A.   Yes, they put question, I provided answers, but they also added

10     things, and I simply believed them.  I should believe the person

11     interviewing me.  If I don't trust you, who should I trust?

12        Q.   You should trust the court alone.

13        A.   Yes, of course, the Judges.

14        Q.   So next we have another statement before an investigative judge,

15     and he referred to what you had said to the police?

16        A.   Which judge?

17        Q.   Judge Dilparic?

18        A.   I can't say that they showed me any statements by others.

19        Q.   I didn't mean statements of others.  He referred to your first

20     statement given to the police and that you based your evidence on that?

21        A.   I'm not sure.  He may have shown me that statement, but I can't

22     say with certainty.

23        Q.   Can you go to page 68.  Have a look at the beginning of this

24     statement.

25        A.   Which paragraph?

Page 7166

 1        Q.   The fourth paragraph from the top.

 2        A.   Investigative judge:

 3             "In the statement to the police you said you had seen him at the

 4     time as you were loading the bodies before the business centre,

 5     Commander Repanovic and Milojko [phoen] came."

 6             Witness's answer:

 7             "So he was there as well?"

 8             Investigative judge:

 9             "I don't know.  This is what you said to the police."

10             Witness:

11             "He was probably there if I said so.  I signed several pages, so

12     he must have been there, it must have been like that."

13        Q.   Therefore, you were shown your statement to the police on that

14     occasion?

15        A.   Probably, yes.  This is what I conclude based on my answer.

16        Q.   This brings us to your third statement given in September.

17        A.   Yes, in Leskovac.

18        Q.   Am I right in saying that you provided that statement because you

19     were called to do that by the war crimes investigator in Belgrade?

20        A.   I was summoned by the deputy state attorney in Leskovac and he

21     did say that that was for the purposes of the war crimes bench.  He told

22     me that I was supposed to give a new statement.  Since I resided closer

23     to Leskovac than Belgrade, he said that I should give that statement in

24     Leskovac, you will sign it and I will take a copy to Belgrade.

25             Before I started giving that statement, I saw a list of people

Page 7167

 1     who were supposed to be apprehended.  As for the other two statements,

 2     there was no plan to apprehend any persons, but just prior to giving this

 3     third statement, I saw on the Judge's desk that there was a list of those

 4     who were supposed to be detained.  I conclude from that that he was

 5     filling in the gaps because he was much more acquainted with the whole

 6     case.  That was his duty.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  Then you went to Jevrem Grujica Street?

 8        A.   Yes.  When I gave the statement in Leskovac, in addition to

 9     having read the list of people who were supposed to be detained, after

10     signing the statement, the deputy district attorney in Leskovac,

11     Mr. Stankovic, officially told me that people were going to detained.

12             And I can even quote him.  He said, Your statement tallies

13     completely in the most important aspects with those of other witnesses.

14     It only deviates in some small detail which are -- is not that relevant.

15             He put to me then that a woman from that family survived.  That

16     she jumped off the truck in Prizren.  She went to a Serbian who promised

17     to appear here as a witness.  He also said that the corpses were taken to

18     the Prizren barracks where they were buried for two weeks.  Two weeks

19     later, they were reburied at Batajnica.

20             He concluded by saying, Go home; you will be called to appear

21     during the main hearing which will be recorded.  He simply let me know

22     that the people on the list will apprehended.  You know, from your

23     colleague in Belgrade I was criticized by the media because I referred to

24     certain media articles, et cetera.  The colleagues in Medvedje knew where

25     I worked and were familiar with my statements, and three weeks later,

Page 7168

 1     they told me, Some of your people are detained.  People usually say that

 2     journalists lie, but they didn't lie a thing about this case.  I did read

 3     that they were detained and charged with the murders of the Berisha

 4     family, and the papers only carried initials those -- of those detained.

 5             I was familiar with the initials, and when I was told this I was

 6     quite shocked in the courtroom.  And then I said openly, These people are

 7     counting their last days of freedom.  And that was correct.  Three weeks

 8     after my Leskovac statement, nine people ended up in the investigative

 9     prison in Belgrade that was on the 17th of October, 2005.  I gave my

10     statement on the 23rd of September, 2005.

11             On the 17th of October - says the witness - maybe before that,

12     maybe after that, they were already in jail in Belgrade.  Later on in

13     January, I received a summons via my superior in Medvedje to appear in

14     Jevrem Grujica Street on number 11 to have -- to attend a new hearing.

15        Q.   We'll get to that.  Mr. Veljkovic, let us go back to several

16     things.  When you were in Leskovac with Mr. Dragoljub Stankovic, there

17     you said your famous statement which goes something like:  If others say

18     he was there, then he must have been.

19        A.   That is correct.

20        Q.   If that was in 2005 as you say, in September, then in

21     January 2006 you went to Jevrem Grujica Street?

22        A.   Exactly.

23        Q.   And those people you referred to were put in jail in

24     October 2006?

25        A.   2005.

Page 7169

 1        Q.   No, 2006.

 2        A.   Those people were detained in 2005, not 2006.

 3        Q.   2005, you're right.  In January you gave a statement to the

 4     Prosecution?

 5        A.   Right.

 6        Q.   It was translated and you signed it.  You say that they showed

 7     you certain statements, et cetera.  Is it correct that you never attended

 8     any meetings of those in charge of the OUP in Suva Reka?

 9        A.   That is correct.

10        Q.   Is it correct that you never attended the meetings of those in

11     charge of the police station in Suva Reka?

12        A.   That is correct.

13        Q.   Is it correct that you never attended any meetings of those in

14     charge of the OUP in the territory of Prizren as well as the chief of

15     police in the Prizren SUP?

16        A.   Correct.

17        Q.   Am I right in saying that you were issued tasks and that you

18     reported to the Prizren SUP?

19        A.   At the end of each month, I submitted reports on those brought

20     in, on those whose IDs were checked, as well as on the reports and

21     Official Notes recorded.  I took that to Nenad Jovanovic who was the

22     assistant commander.  It would be sent by mail on a monthly basis to

23     Prizren.  They kept all the records about the work of the police station.

24        Q.   Am I right in saying that the head of the police station,

25     Mr. Repanovic, was in direct communication only with Prizren?

Page 7170

 1        A.   He was not a head, he was the station commander.  And yes, he

 2     did.  When he was absent, there was his deputy and his assistant.

 3             MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] Could we next have document

 4     D004-2264.

 5        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, what will be presented to you is an extract from

 6     the daily event or incidents log of the Suva Reka police station for

 7     1999.  The period concerned is the 13th of March to -- sorry, the

 8     26th of February, 1999, to, let me see, to the 27th of April, 1999.

 9             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we have page 36.  I think it

10     is page 3.  Yes.  Can we please go down the page.

11        Q.   Do you see the entry numbers 36?

12        A.   I do.

13        Q.   What is the date?

14        A.   The 22nd of March, 1999.

15        Q.   What is registered there?  Just describe it for us, it will be

16     translated.

17        A.   I'll read it out, although it is a bit unclear.  It is

18     reported -- no, first of all:

19             "Terrorism Article 125 of the Penal Code of Serbia.  This was

20     done by Nebojsa Gogic, traffic policeman, who was an employee in the

21     Suva Reka station.  He reports that in Cara Dusana Street in Suva Reka in

22     the auto spare parts shop in Retimlje," if I'm reading that correctly,

23     "Balkom Belt [phoen] was killed by terrorists as well as Nenad Lazic from

24     the village of Sopina.  Shots were fired from a handgun and then" - what

25     does it say here? - "from close proximity."

Page 7171

 1             An on-site investigation was done by the investigative judge, a

 2     dispatch was sent to Prizren, a criminal report was submitted and there's

 3     no number.

 4        Q.   Let's go to the next page.  Entry number 37.  What is the date?

 5        A.   The 5th of April at 2100 hours.  Sorry, 2110.  Nenad Jovanovic,

 6     assistant commander of the Suva Reka police station.  Terrorist attack.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  We'll have a translation of it.  Am I right in saying

 8     that as of the 22nd of March under item 36 and up to the

 9     5th of April, 1999, item 37, there was not a single incident that was

10     reported in the daily incidents book?

11        A.   You are right.

12        Q.   Am I right in saying that everything entered into the daily

13     incidents log was something that the SUP in Prizren was notified about?

14        A.   It says here that a dispatch was sent.  However, I do think that

15     they first reported that by phone and then would send dispatches.  I am

16     familiar with this event concerning Nenad Jovanovic.

17             I went to the scene.  A terrorist used a hand-held launcher.  It

18     hit their vehicle, but fortunately none of the colleagues were hurt.

19     Even Nenad Jovanovic was there himself.  It was in the evening.

20        Q.   You were there.  Who was in the vehicle with Nenad Jovanovic?

21        A.   Ramiz Papic and someone else.  Certainly there wasn't only one

22     person.

23        Q.   Thank you.  Now, do you agree with me that based on this daily

24     incidents log-book, the police station did not inform the Prizren SUP of

25     the murder of the Berisha family?

Page 7172

 1        A.   Well, I -- you mean when the Berisha family were killed?  No, I

 2     can't really say for certain whether they informed Prizren or not.

 3        Q.   Should such an incident be logged in the daily incidents

 4     log-book?

 5        A.   I cannot answer that question because, simply put, it is

 6     exceeding one's -- well, it's an instance of exceeding of authority

 7     without any prior intention, and I wouldn't really know what that

 8     description of the incident would actually look like.

 9        Q.   Sir, did the Suva Reka police station actually conceal this

10     event, the events of the 26th of March in Suva Reka?

11        A.   I cannot really say that either way.

12        Q.   All right.  Thank you.  Now, please tell us, when you returned to

13     the station, did you receive an order, did anyone issue an order to you

14     that you should go and send or expel Albanians from their homes?

15        A.   When I arrived there, I heard that it was said that people should

16     not be killed, that we should go from door to door and order the people

17     of ethnic Albanian origin to leave their homes, to leave Suva Reka, and

18     to go to Albania freely.

19        Q.   Let me just ask you this, who could you have heard this from when

20     you were at the police station all by yourself?

21        A.   Well, I can't recall which colleague it was who told me this.

22        Q.   Am I correct in saying that this was something that you were just

23     discussing amongst yourselves?

24        A.   Well, I can't tell you.

25        Q.   Thank you.  And am I correct in saying that you did not leave the

Page 7173

 1     station in order to go and inform the Albanians of that?

 2        A.   I know that I did not go to tell Albanians to leave their homes,

 3     but I told you yesterday, and I stand by it, that I was at the police

 4     station when there was this phone call where the woman asked me about

 5     this order to move out; and when she asked me, Where should we go, and I

 6     said, Go abroad, and when she said, Well whom do we have in Albania, to

 7     which I said, Well, in that case the same fate will meet you that met the

 8     Berisha family.  And then I hung up.

 9             Then about half an hour later, I don't know if even that much

10     time passed, people just started packing and leaving for Albania en masse

11     in their cars and so on.  So this would have been -- this would have

12     taken place for about an hour or so.  It couldn't have been more than

13     that.

14        Q.   Tell me, Mr. Veljkovic, did you tell the ICTY investigator about

15     this when you provided your statement in 2006?

16        A.   I can't recall.  I don't even know if the gentleman asked me

17     about it.

18        Q.   Would you read, please -- would you please read paragraph 19.

19        A.   "When we returned to the police station I heard from other

20     colleagues that another order had been given that we were to go from

21     house to house and tell any remaining Albanians that they have half an

22     hour to pack their things and leave.  I assumed that this order also had

23     come from Repanovic.  I just stayed in the police station.  Half an hour

24     later, the Albanians began to leave in their vehicles towards Prizren or

25     the border with Albania."

Page 7174

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Is it -- would it be possible for an ICTY

 2     investigator to not note down something that you may have said about this

 3     in January 2006?

 4        A.   You mean whether he would have written it down, I can't really

 5     know, but I don't even remember whether he put that question or not.  But

 6     I know that I was asked about it by the gentleman who interviewed me the

 7     first time, the 26 or 27th February, 2003, when toward the end of the

 8     interview he asked me, and I recall the question:

 9             "What did you say to the woman who called the duty service of the

10     Suva Reka police station?"

11             He put that question directly to me, and then I said that to him.

12        Q.   Let me ask you this:  What language did you speak when you spoke

13     to this woman?

14        A.   In Serbian because I can't speak Albanian.  And when she called,

15     she asked me in Serbian.  I didn't know, of course, who was tall calling;

16     she just asked that, and I said what I said.

17        Q.   Thank you.  Am I right in saying that you do not have any

18     knowledge, direct knowledge, about -- that you were never told that

19     Albanian nationals should move out?

20        A.   Could you please repeat that question.

21        Q.   Am I correct when I say that you did not receive an order to go

22     and tell the people of Albanian ethnicity that they should move out?

23        A.   Yes, you are correct.

24             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, the statement

25     65 ter 337, I seek that it be admitted into evidence.

Page 7175

 1             JUDGE PARKER:  What is the date of that?

 2             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] This is the statement of

 3     18th January, 2006.

 4             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

 5             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, that will be Exhibit D00311.

 6             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

 7        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, do you remember that during the war an

 8     investigating team would go in the field to investigate -- to conduct an

 9     on-site investigation if a criminal report was submitted?

10        A.   Well, I remember only one incident when an on-site investigation

11     was conducted by an investigating judge and with the assistance of the

12     police.  And the outcome of this investigation was very tragic.  This was

13     at the end of the air-strike campaign.  I think this was in late May, in

14     the second half of May, and I know well that I was on duty at the time.

15     And at about 2.00 or 3.00, I was told by our patrols via our

16     communication line that there was a murder in Pecane or somewhere like

17     that, I can't exactly recall where.  And so our men decided that on the

18     next day they would go there and conduct an on-site investigation.

19             When they were leaving, the commander -- the deputy commander of

20     Prokuplje was there, I think his driver was there too, and the Prizren

21     investigating Judge Cane Janicijevic; and on their way out, they ran into

22     a land-mine and all three were killed.  Whether there were any other

23     on-site investigations before that, I wouldn't know.

24        Q.   Well, I wasn't asking you only about the deaths of non-Albanians,

25     but also Albanians.  When there were Albanians found dead in Suva Reka,

Page 7176

 1     there would be a team to investigate the incident.

 2             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could I have document D004-2246,

 3     please, on the screens.

 4        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, this is a report from April 1st on the finding of

 5     a body in Prizrenska Street in Suva Reka.  Do you recall the incident?

 6        A.   I can't recall it.  I did not keep records of crime reports.

 7        Q.   But do you recall that there was an investigating team toward the

 8     end of March that was conducting an investigation on Restanski Road?

 9        A.   I don't know that either.

10        Q.   I think it was on the 30th of March, and they were conducting an

11     investigation between the houses of the Berisha family?

12        A.   I don't know about that.

13        Q.   All right.  And do you know of Dr. Boban Sanovic [as interpreted]

14     and how he got killed?

15        A.   I think this was in the first half of April, 1999.  He was with

16     four of his colleagues, people from the Territorial Defence, and they

17     were on their way to -- between Stopina-Musotiste [phoen] on the main

18     road, Albanian terrorists carried out an armed attack on them.  I think

19     there were five men in this vehicle including Dr. Boban, and they were

20     killed.

21             I don't know if they conducted an on-site investigation or not.

22     They were brought to the medical centre first, and then I can't say with

23     certainty what happened afterwards, whether their bodies were taken to

24     Prizren or not to the forensic institute to be examined.  And I think on

25     the very next day they were buried.  So I recall this incident vividly.

Page 7177

 1     I think this would have been around 1.00 p.m., but I'm not sure of the

 2     date, but I know it was in the first half of April.

 3        Q.   Thank you.

 4             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. Veljkovic, thank you for

 5     answering my questions.

 6             Your Honours, I thank you and this concludes my

 7     cross-examination.

 8             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you, Mr. Djurdjic.

 9             Mr. Stamp.

10             MR. STAMP:  Just a couple of questions, Your Honour.

11                           Re-examination by Mr. Stamp:

12        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic --

13             JUDGE PARKER:  I see, Mr. Djurdjic has had another thought.

14             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I forgot to seek to

15     tender the daily incidents log, to have it MFI'd pending translation.

16     This was document -- it was a Defence document.  We saw it.  If you bear

17     with me, and I apologise to my learned friend Mr. Stamp --

18             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be marked.

19             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] It is D004-2264.

20             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, that will be Exhibit D00312 marked

21     for identification.

22             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

23             Yes, Mr. Stamp.

24             MR. STAMP:  Your Honours, while we are at it, the untranslated

25     documents marked for translation, we had taken a position when this

Page 7178

 1     procedure started that we would not object because we wanted to the

 2     procedures to move quickly, but over the last two weeks the majority of

 3     the documents the Defence has used are not in the language of the

 4     Tribunal and it is becoming -- or any of the official languages, and it

 5     is becoming very difficult to follow the evidence of the witness with

 6     these untranslated documents.

 7             Now, I know that there are difficulties in getting documents

 8     translated, but it seems to me that if the Defence made proper

 9     representations to the CLSS, or whoever does the translations, and prior

10     to that prioritised documents in the order that we were going to use

11     them, we could have translated documents used with the witnesses while

12     they are here.

13             I discovered in respect to one document when I had a spot

14     translation after the witness left that if there was a translation there

15     would be meaningful information that we could have brought before the

16     Court.

17             So I would ask the Court if -- and this is just a request made to

18     the Defence through the Court, if proper efforts could be made to have

19     documents in the language of the Tribunal used in cross-examination.  I

20     know it can be done because these are not many documents, and I've seen

21     situations in the past where five times as many documents have been

22     translated by counsel, and that is just a matter not of sending simply a

23     batch of documents for translation, but of prioritizing them.  It can be

24     done.  And if the Defence do what is necessary, we will have documents

25     that we can read.  That's all I wish to say about it now, Your Honours.

Page 7179

 1             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Stamp, and Mr. Djurdjic, the Chamber would ask

 2     you to liaise on this matter and to do it with the CLSS in an effort to

 3     ensure that the occasions when an untranslated document is used are kept

 4     to a minimum.  It has become apparent that not merely an isolated

 5     document, but quite consistently, most documents put by the Defence to

 6     witnesses in cross-examination have not been translated.

 7             The Chamber has, of course, left it open to the Prosecution in

 8     such a case to seek to recall the witness at a later time when a

 9     translation is made, but we all realise that the cost and delay involved

10     in such a process is considerable and that it would only be a really

11     grave matter that would warrant that occurring.

12             Therefore, we would ask that the present position be improved

13     dramatically by whatever means can be arranged in cooperation with the

14     CLSS.  Obviously if this is not done, the Chamber's recourse will have to

15     be to refuse to allow the use of untranslated documents which will be

16     much to the disadvantage, I would expect, of the Defence.

17             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, briefly, I think

18     Mr. Stamp is right, although, I believe that the translation service is

19     doing utmost.  I forward them a voluminous bulk of documents, but the

20     problem may have been that we did not prioritize adequately.  We will do

21     so in the future.  However, the documents we showed to the witnesses were

22     more of an illustrative nature than material to the issues at hand.  In

23     any case, we will try to meet the request put to us.  As regards the

24     translation service, we certainly have no objections as to their work.

25             JUDGE PARKER:  Carry on, please, Mr. Stamp.

Page 7180

 1             MR. STAMP:  Thank you, Your Honours.

 2        Q.   You said, Mr. Veljkovic, that there was an armoured personnel

 3     carrier outside the police station on the 26th.  To which unit did it

 4     belong?

 5        A.   The APC belonged to the OUP in Suva Reka.  But I can't say with

 6     any certainty that that vehicle was there solely for the purposes of the

 7     special unit of the PJP.

 8        Q.   Can I take it from your answer that it was sometimes used for the

 9     purposes of the special unit of the PJP?

10        A.   In what sense?  Special units are one thing and PJPs are another.

11             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter's correction:  Line 22 should read

12     special unit, of the PJP.  Basically meaning the same thing.  The special

13     unit, the PJP.

14             MR. STAMP:  I see.

15        Q.   So it was sometimes used by the PJP?

16        A.   I can't say with any certainty whether it was or was not used by

17     the PJP.

18        Q.   Thank you.  If we could move on to something else, and I'm

19     referring to page 33 of today's record.  You were asked by counsel about

20     the persons who were present with you when you went with the truck to

21     load bodies.  And you read from what you had said to the investigating

22     judge.  And while you were being questioned about it, you think -- I

23     think you said you might have been confused then about the persons who

24     travelled with you, and you referred to your first statement.  I would,

25     with the leave of the Court, like to give you a copy of your first

Page 7181

 1     statement and just ask if this assists you to remember who went with you

 2     and who you saw at the cafe when you arrived there.

 3             MR. STAMP:  If I could briefly show him this first statement,

 4     this statement, Your Honours.

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes.

 6             MR. STAMP:  And copy for the Defence.

 7             THE INTERPRETER:  Would the counsel please switch off his

 8     microphone when not using it.

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  The date of this statement, Mr. Stamp?

10             MR. STAMP:  This is a statement of the 27th of February, 2003.

11             JUDGE PARKER:  Made to?

12             MR. STAMP:  To the MUP, the MUP officials at the MUP office in

13     Belgrade, Kneza Milosa Street, number 9.

14        Q.   Do you recall giving that statement, Mr. Veljkovic?

15        A.   I do.  That was my first statement.

16        Q.   And I think you signed all the pages of that statement as well?

17        A.   Correct.

18        Q.   And if you look at the last page and the last two sentences, you

19     attested that:

20             "This statement has been read out to me, I hereby verify its

21     accuracy and accept it as mine and I am therefore signing it as such.  I

22     also state that during the interview conducted by the MUP officials of

23     the Republic of Serbia I was not subjected to any form of violence or

24     pressure."

25             That is what you attested to?

Page 7182

 1        A.   Yes.

 2        Q.   I just want to remind you of what is at -- is on the statement.

 3     If you could look at the last sentence of page 2.  And my question will

 4     be:  Does this remind you of who was it who accompanied you when you went

 5     with the truck to pick up bodies?

 6             But I want you to just go through it first before answering that

 7     question and try to remember.  The last sentence of page 2, can you read

 8     that sentence, please.

 9        A.   "After that, the aforementioned policemen were in pursuit, still

10     shooting at the people fleeing.  Commander Repanovic ordered me and

11     Ivica Novkovic who was a reservist who hailed from Dubovo, from

12     Prokuplje, to collect the bodies, he also said that a truck was to come

13     to load the bodies onto it."

14             Is that the sentence you had in mind on page 2?

15        Q.   And could you move to page 3.  And just read the first sentence

16     but a little bit more slowly now, a little bit more slowly because it has

17     to be translated.  The first sentence of page 3.

18        A.   "When Ivica Novkovic and I arrived close to the house which used

19     to house the OSCE, a truck came from the direction of Restane with two

20     uniformed people inside.  I think they were reservists from Suva Reka.

21     The names of those persons in the truck is something I do not know.  I do

22     think I could recognise them if shown their photographs."

23        Q.   Now, if you move on to the first -- to the second paragraph of

24     page 3 and read the first two sentences.  Or could you just read slowly

25     the second paragraph of page 3.

Page 7183

 1        A.   "We boarded the truck and set out for Lestane [as interpreted].

 2     We arrived at the first intersection when the truck made a U-turn.

 3     Ivica Novkovic and I were following the truck on foot, loading the bodies

 4     close to the intersection.  There were five or six of them.  I remember

 5     there were some corpses that we could not load onto the truck because

 6     they were too heavy.  We left those behind.

 7             There was a carpenter's shop on Miladina Popovica Street close to

 8     the crossroads.  We didn't take all of the corpses from the shop.  There

 9     was another charred body at the entrance of the shop.  After that, the

10     truck went back to the OUP building.  Ivica Novkovic and I followed.  I

11     think when passed by the former OSCE house where we loaded some ten

12     bodies, we left some of them behind as well.  Then the truck turned

13     towards the small businesses centre along the main road between Prizren

14     and Pristina, whereas Ivica Novkovic and I went on foot towards the

15     direction from which we could hear shots and hand-grenade explosions."

16        Q.   Thank you.  Could you also read the next paragraph slowly.  It's

17     a short paragraph.

18        A.   "When we arrived before a pizzeria at the small businesses

19     centre, the name of which I no longer remember, but I do know that it was

20     across the street from the Metohija Vino company, we came across a parked

21     truck, the trailer of which was turned toward the pizzeria entrance.  I

22     saw the policeman Miroslav Tanovic and Petkovic as well as a policeman by

23     the nickname of Tzece [phoen] he stood next to a kiosk vis-a-vis the

24     municipal building at the small businesses centre.  We also found

25     Dr. Boban Vuksanovic."

Page 7184

 1        Q.   Having read what you said in your first statement, do you now

 2     recall who it was who travelled with you when you went with the truck on

 3     the road to pick up the bodies?

 4        A.   It was such a long time ago.  I cannot say with a hundred

 5     per cent certainty that Ivica Novkovic and another colleague were with me

 6     as of the moment when we started loading the body that was in the

 7     courtyard of the OUP in Suva Reka and until we finished.  Still, I stand

 8     by what I said and that is that I began forgetting things, and that the

 9     statement is as I had it originally, that is to say that myself and the

10     two reservists went towards Restanski Put to load the bodies.

11             Whether there were some other corpses that belonged to the

12     Berisha family and whether these Albanians may have been attacking the

13     police and killed in response, that is something I cannot say any longer.

14     But I would still like to be stand by what I said.

15        Q.   I'm not talking or asking you to focus on the bodies now.  Just

16     the police accompanying you.  You note in this statement that you -- on

17     many occasions, you only refer to Ivica Novkovic as the one person who

18     accompanied you.  Does that not assist you to remember?

19        A.   It does assist me to remember, but - because I remember that he

20     refused to load any bodies - but I stand by what I said about the other

21     reserve policemen, that he was there with me loading the bodies because I

22     could not have possibly done it on my own.

23             MR. STAMP:  Can we move into private session, Your Honour.  I

24     just have one question I'd like to ask in private session.

25             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, private.

Page 7185

 1                           [Private session]

 2   (redacted)

 3   (redacted)

 4   (redacted)

 5   (redacted)

 6   (redacted)

 7   (redacted)

 8   (redacted)

 9   (redacted)

10   (redacted)

11   (redacted)

12   (redacted)

13   (redacted)

14   (redacted)

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17   (redacted)

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

21   (redacted)

22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

Page 7186

 1   (redacted)

 2   (redacted)

 3   (redacted)

 4   (redacted)

 5   (redacted)

 6   (redacted)

 7   (redacted)

 8   (redacted)

 9                           [Open session]

10             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, we are back in open session.

11             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic.

12             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, Mr. Stamp was

13     critical of my conduct and yet here we see for the second time he is

14     using a document for which there is no translation, and secondly, he used

15     a document that was not used earlier during the examination-in-chief, so

16     I would like to be given the opportunity to put to the witness some

17     issues that are in this new document after the break.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Stamp, do you suggest this document was used

19     during cross-examination?

20             MR. STAMP:  No, Your Honour, I did not suggest that it was used

21     during cross-examination.  The witness just referred to his first

22     statement in a context as if to suggest it might well be said that that

23     would explain what he was saying.  This is a statement that had been

24     disclosed to Defence some time ago.  I just brought a courtesy copy for

25     them.  And there is a translation.

Page 7187

 1             JUDGE PARKER:  Your submission is that you merely referred to a

 2     statement to see if it assisted the witness's recollection?

 3             MR. STAMP:  Indeed, Your Honour.

 4             JUDGE PARKER:  Is there a reason you didn't do that in your

 5     examination-in-chief?

 6             MR. STAMP:  It did not arise then.  What I did arose from what

 7     the witness said in cross-examination in response to a question from a

 8     friends about the order of the statements and the statements that were

 9     given.  This is something that arose entirely in cross-examination.

10                           [Trial Chamber confers]

11             JUDGE PARKER:  We have run out of time on the tape.  So we must

12     adjourn now, and we will continue at 10 minutes past 1.00.

13                           [The witness stands down]

14                           --- Recess taken at 12.42 p.m.

15                           --- On resuming at 1.12 p.m.

16             JUDGE PARKER:  In the view of the Chamber, strictly the reference

17     made to the statement was not to the contents of the statement by

18     Mr. Djurdjic.  The extent to which reference was made by Mr. Stamp in

19     having the witness refresh his memory was such that in the view of the

20     Chamber, it would be appropriate to allow Mr. Djurdjic, given his limited

21     use of the -- or reference to the statement, to be able now to renew his

22     cross-examination to deal with any aspect of the statement.  That, in

23     turn, may enliven a further opportunity to re-exam, Mr. Stamp.  We will

24     see.

25                           [The witness takes the stand]

Page 7188

 1             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes Mr. Djurdjic.

 2             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.

 3                      Further Cross-examination by Mr. Djurdjic:

 4        Q.   I have been given another opportunity thanks to Mr. Stamp to

 5     discuss with you your statement provided to the administration for

 6     fighting organised crime on the 27th of February, 2003.  Would you please

 7     take a look at the last page of this statement because you have gone

 8     through the whole statement with Mr. Stamp, and tell me whether you see

 9     at the end of this statement that any mention is made of this woman that

10     you told me about beforehand?

11        A.   The whom who survived the shooting?

12        Q.   No, the woman who made the phone call to the station.  I believe

13     it should be on page 23 or so, so would you take a look at that.

14        A.   Well, let me explain it to you.  They put questions to me and

15     then they wrote down my answers in a notebook.  And when I completed my

16     statement, they said that I had to wait there for them to type the

17     statement over and enter it in the computer, and then I would have to

18     sign the statement.  So then I waited for about an hour or so while they

19     wrote down the statement, and then they printed it out and gave it to me

20     to sign.

21             I did not read it at the time, I admit that.  I just signed it.

22     And if they chose to omit any mention of this woman who called the

23     station, well, they would know why that is so.  I wouldn't know anything

24     about that.

25        Q.   All right.  Let's not dwell too much on this.  Here it says:

Page 7189

 1             "This statement has been read over to me and it is true and it

 2     reflects my words, and as such I sign it."

 3             So in other words, it was read out it to you?

 4        A.   Well, if I signed the statement and it says there that it was

 5     read back to me, then it's probably my error.  I probably, in that case,

 6     did not want to insist on it and ask them why they didn't enter the

 7     portion about the woman who called on the phone.  But you see, they also

 8     asked me about the murder of a man at the gas station, and I told them

 9     that I didn't know of that and it was the first time that I heard of that

10     from them.

11        Q.   Mr. Veljkovic, I've already asked you about it, you forgot, I

12     think.

13             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I seek to tender

14     this statement into evidence rather than go over it paragraph by

15     paragraph because I think that it's been read almost in its entirety, and

16     if not, perhaps Mr. Veljkovic could read the third paragraph from the

17     top.

18             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Do you mean the paragraph beginning

19     with once we completed -- "Once we completed loading the bodies we

20     returned to the Suva Reka OUP."  All right, I'd start over.

21             "When we finished loading the bodies around 3.00" --

22             JUDGE PARKER:  Hold it there for a moment, please.  You propose

23     to put a question to the witness about this paragraph?  You do, very

24     well, read it if you would.

25             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] "When we finished loading the

Page 7190

 1     bodies, around 3.00 p.m. I returned to the OUP building in Suva Reka.  A

 2     little later, I heard that an order had been issued to the effect that

 3     Albanians should not be killed any more, and that it was ordered that we

 4     should go from house to house and tell them that they should leave their

 5     houses within 30 minutes for Albania, and if not, that they would be

 6     killed.  I don't know who issued this order."

 7             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

 8        Q.   Thank you, Mr. Veljkovic.  Was this part of your statement?  Does

 9     it reflect correctly the words that you used?

10        A.   Yes.

11             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.  So I seek

12     again to admit this into evidence, although I'm not quite sure whether it

13     has been translated yet, Your Honours, because I haven't seen it.  I

14     didn't see it on the screen either now or when Mr. Stamp was questioning

15     the witness, and if it does not exist, then I suggest that it be marked

16     for identification.  Or in the alternative, if we have the translation

17     then -- well, I've just been told by Ms. O'Leary that we do have a

18     translation but apparently it's not been entered into e-court.

19             JUDGE PARKER:  The statement we are told has been translated.  It

20     will be received as an exhibit.

21             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, that will be Exhibit D00313.

22             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Stamp, any further re-examination?

23             MR. STAMP:  No re-examination further to those questions,

24     Your Honour.

25             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

Page 7191

 1                           Questioned by the Court:

 2             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Mr. Veljkovic, I have a short question for you.

 3     This morning you told us about the bodies in the pizzeria, this is

 4     page 22, line 13, and the following.  You said:

 5             "This was a great deal of bodies and there would have been an

 6     outbreak if we had left them.  If we had left them, there would be many

 7     more accused and people prosecuted than there already were."

 8             I didn't understand this answer.  Perhaps you can explain it a

 9     little bit more.  What did you mean by that?

10        A.   What I meant is that the bodies that were in the pizzeria could

11     not be left there.  They had to be buried somewhere to prevent -- to

12     prevent an outbreak of disease.  Now, when we left Suva Reka later on,

13     which we did, if it was -- if it was discovered then that people had been

14     killed and had been left behind, there was the possibility that an even

15     greater number of people would be indicted, not only for the killing of

16     these people, but also for not burying their bodies but just leaving them

17     behind.  That is what I meant and that is my answer to your question.

18             JUDGE FLUEGGE:  Yesterday you were asked about the interview by

19     the investigative judge in Belgrade, Mr. Dilparic, and twice you told the

20     Chamber that you were frightened or scared in that situation, during your

21     examination there.  Can you tell us in which way you have been frightened

22     and what was the reason for that?

23        A.   I was anxious and afraid simply because I was fearing for my

24     freedom.  When you are called for questioning, you receive a summons as a

25     regular citizens and it is very easy or it might very easily turn into

Page 7192

 1     you becoming a suspect.  That was the first thing.

 2             The second thing is I was afraid also because I felt very

 3     uncomfortable testifying against the people who were my co-workers,

 4     although, what they did, they did deliberately and with premeditation.

 5     But I saw that in this case, many witnesses have been questioned, and I

 6     realised that there was nothing that I could conceal.  That there was

 7     simply, in addition to active policemen, there were also reservists who

 8     were called to testify, and of course they would not allow it.  They

 9     wouldn't let it happen that my testimony jeopardized their freedom.

10             So that was part of the reason why I was afraid and not because

11     your colleague Dilparic was in any way unkind to me or anything to that

12     effect.  So that was the sole reason for my feeling of anxiety.

13             JUDGE FLUGGE:  Thank you very much.

14             JUDGE BAIRD:  When you were following the truck going along the

15     Restanski Put Road --

16             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone, Your Honour.

17             JUDGE BAIRD:  Whose decision was it to make the U-turn when you

18     were following the truck?

19        A.   The only person there was the driver of the truck.  He was the

20     one who made that decision.  No one else.

21             JUDGE BAIRD:  Did you ask him why he made that decision?

22        A.   No.

23             JUDGE BAIRD:  Did you want to know?

24        A.   No.

25             JUDGE BAIRD:  Thank you.

Page 7193

 1             JUDGE PARKER:  That concludes the questioning for you.  You are

 2     now free to return to your normal activities, and the Court Officer will

 3     show you out.  We would thank you for your attendance.

 4             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

 5                           [The witness withdrew]

 6             JUDGE PARKER:  Now, Mr. Hannis, Mr. Coo, as I understand it, is

 7     the next witness.

 8             MR. HANNIS:  He is, Your Honour.

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  His evidence is unlikely to be brief.

10             MR. HANNIS:  I think it's unlikely to be this brief.  And I did

11     want to raise a matter of scheduling with you in light of the point we

12     are at this time.  I would prefer if we could do him in one go as it

13     were.  Because of the nature of his evidence, I think it would be more

14     efficient if we can do him in the same day.

15             If we start now, I understand you have a witness tomorrow who

16     needs to be on and done and I think then we would have to put Mr. Coo off

17     to maybe follow late tomorrow afternoon or some other day.  I would

18     prefer if we could just recess today and reschedule Mr. Coo for another

19     time when it's mutually convenient to everyone.

20             I had some conversation with my learned friend Mr. Djordjevic

21     during the most recent break about that.  I think the later he is

22     scheduled, actually the shorter his evidence may be because some exhibits

23     that are on the list I have for him may come in through other witnesses

24     before we get there.  So, in essence, that's my request at this point in

25     time.

Page 7194

 1             JUDGE PARKER:  Well, we certainly see that to commence him now

 2     for just over 15 minutes is not going to be very practical, and the

 3     witness scheduled for tomorrow is a witness of some substance.  We

 4     certainly anticipate he will finish within the day, but again, it might

 5     be a situation somewhat similar to today.  So to complicate matters, the

 6     Prosecution planning is for a series of witnesses, three, to give

 7     evidence by videolink Monday and Tuesday, even it was thought perhaps

 8     Wednesday, but we would think it ought to be possible in two days to

 9     finish those three witnesses.

10             So the earliest opportunity would be the last days of next week

11     or even at some later time if other witnesses are available that would

12     fill out the time profitably next week.

13             MR. HANNIS:  Yes, Your Honour.  I have a personal interest, I

14     would like to appear before you all again and I'm actually leaving

15     tomorrow and won't be in town and then I'm out Wednesday, Thursday, and

16     Friday the following week.  And I understand that the week of July 20th

17     you are only sitting Monday, Tuesday, and part of Wednesday.  So it may

18     be that I'll see if Mr. Coo can be available August 17th or some date

19     shortly thereafter.  And try to schedule him then if that's convenient to

20     him and to you and Mr. Djordjevic.

21             JUDGE PARKER:  Well, thank you for that, Mr. Hannis.  We look

22     forward to hearing you again at some time.  We will have to content

23     ourselves in patience waiting for that event.  Mr. Djurdjic, I'm sure,

24     will learn from Ms. O'Leary of our deliberations and reasons.

25             We certainly indicate to counsel that the witness tomorrow, we

Page 7195

 1     would expect to be finished in the course of tomorrow and all counsel

 2     should keep that in their time planning and that we would anticipate on

 3     Wednesday of next week to reach the next non-videolink witness.

 4             That being so, we therefore adjourn for the day to resume

 5     tomorrow at 9.00.

 6                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.31 p.m.

 7                           to be reconvened on Friday, the 10th day of

 8                           July, 2009, at 9.00 a.m.